NationStates Jolt Archive

Since today is the 5th anniversary of the 9-11 attacks on the US. I would like everyone in Nationstates if possible to take time out of their day and have a moment of silence at the following times again if possible:


8:46 AM EASTERN DAYLIGHTTIME
When American Airlines Flight 11 crashed into WTC 1.

9:03 AM EASTERN DAYLIGHTTIME
When United Airlines Flight 175 crashed into WTC 2.

9:37 AM EASTERN DAYLIGHTTIME
When American Airlines Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon.

9:59 AM EASTERN DAYLIGHTTIME
When WTC 2 collapsed.

10:03 AM EASTERN DAYLIGHTTIME
When United Airlines Flight 93 crashed into Shanksville, PA

10:28 AM EASTERN DAYLIGHTTIME
When WTC 1 Collapsed.

There is no reason why the people who gave their lives to the cowards should not be prayed for.

THANKS IN ADVANCE

Why do people always call terrorists cowards? Blowing yourself up takes guts.

I will take a moment to think of the many innocent people who died in WTC attack.I will also take a moment to think of the many innocent people killed since 9/11 in afghanistan,Iraq(including the military)and I will also spare a thought for the many more who will lose their lives in this continuing conflict.I will then hope that the next time my country goes to war,they dont lie to do it and have an adequate plan of action.

Why do people always call terrorists cowards? Blowing yourself up takes guts.


I sincerely hope that you are being sarcastic. If not.. then.. I feel sorry for you.

I sincerely hope that you are being sarcastic. If not.. then.. I feel sorry for you.

I'm not being sarcastic. Your pity does not contradict my point.

I'm not being sarcastic. Your pity does not contradict my point.

well its a free world and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If not then why is there an Internet??? IMHO.. why person who blows themselves up for any political, personal or religous reason is a coward. If they did have any guts, then why did they take the esy way out instead of doing it face-to-face?? It's a lot harder to kill someone when you see their eyes.

I'm not being sarcastic. Your pity does not contradict my point.

Why do you think being a suicide bomber is courageous?
I gettit that they certainly have guts(for trusting that they will go to heaven and cos theyre willing to risk blowing themselves up for nothing)but seriously, please explain how the killing of civilians is courageous?

well its a free world and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If not then why is there an Internet??? IMHO.. why person who blows themselves up for any political, personal or religous reason is a coward. If they did have any guts, then why did they take the esy way out instead of doing it face-to-face?? It's a lot harder to kill someone when you see their eyes.

What, you mean taking it mano e mano? Challenging everyone in the WTC to a duel of honour? Heh. Maybe you think any US troops involved in artillery, or air/naval support, is also a coward since they don't do it "face to face?"

Checklandia: All I am saying is it doesn't follow that being a terrorist makes you a 'coward.'

I think both of you have a problem because you think enemy = cowardice and courage = goodguys, hence no badguy can ever be courageous because you think courage implies goodness.

But it doesn't.

How about a moment of silence for the 37,000 children who die every day from various causes, Qazox? Every day. Oh, wait, sorry, (37,000 x 365 x infinity) < 3,000. I forgot.

Sorry, I just need to put things in perspective here. Your argument is irritating.

What, you mean taking it mano e mano? Challenging everyone in the WTC to a duel of honour? Heh. Maybe you think any US troops involved in artillery, or air/naval support, is also a coward since they don't do it "face to face?"

Checklandia: All I am saying is it doesn't follow that being a terrorist makes you a 'coward.'

I think both of you have a problem because you think enemy = cowardice and courage = goodguys, hence no badguy can ever be courageous because you think courage implies goodness.

But it doesn't.

hey, I dont think of people in the middle east as an enemy, and I certainly dont see the world in terms like the ones you have just described.In fact, I will go as far as saying that I understand(but dont often agree with)the reasons that people decide to become suicide bombers.They have guts,and some people may percieve them as courageous, but its not my definition.I was asking why killing ANYONE is courageous unless it is absolutly necessary to save innocent lives.Maybe by suicide bombing young muslims ,who may feel otherwise helpless due to many factors,may believe that by blowing themselves(and others) up that they will be saving more innocent lives.Unfortunatly it doesnt work that way as more often then not, ther reslult is more innocents killed.
Just read my post history and I think you may realise that I do not see the people of the middle east as 'enemies' and I certainly dont think 'enemies=cowards' and 'us and uk=good courageous guys'.Redress your own problems before you attempt to point out a problem I dont have....

How about a moment of silence for the 37,000 children who die every day from various causes, Qazox? Every day. Oh, wait, sorry, (37,000 x 365 x infinity) < 3,000. I forgot.

Sorry, I just need to put things in perspective here. Your argument is irritating.

that is very true.I want to remember the dead of 9/11, it was a tragedy, but there is a tragedy happening every day in africa,afghanistan, Iraq and all over the world.But I guess nobody cares about this, because American lives are worth more....

They have guts,and some people may percieve them as courageous, but its not my definition.I was asking why killing ANYONE is courageous unless it is absolutly necessary to save innocent lives.

Again, you seem to think courage has something to do with being necessary to save innocence - i.e, courage is a quality only "good" people with "good" causes can possibly have.

I'm using the dictionary definition of courage here, not yours.

Again, you seem to think courage has something to do with being necessary to save innocence - i.e, courage is a quality only "good" people with "good" causes can possibly have.

I'm using the dictionary definition of courage here, not yours.

A person can be courageous on either side of a battle.Read my post again and you will see that I dont label either side as good or bad.I am merley asking why is killing courageous?Please provide me a dictionary definition, I am willing to accept it if Im wrong.You've really picked the wrong person to argue with here, we seem to agree that courage isnt defined in terms of 'bad guy' 'good guy',and that the world isnt defined in these terms either.I am merley asking, is killing courageous?(not that 'courage has something to do with being necessary to save innocence',I aplogise if I wasnt clear enough, it is after all 7 am here and I have had no sleep)

Remember Allende.

33rd Anniversary of September 11th.

A person can be courageous on wither side of a battle.Read my post again and you will see that I dont label either side as good or bad.

Well, you seem to think the definition has something to do with defending your life or the lives of innocence. I would describe that as good.

Please provide me a dictionary definition, I am willing to accept it if Im wrong.

k:

The state or quality of mind or spirit that enables one to face danger, fear, or vicissitudes with self-possession, confidence, and resolution; bravery.

How about a moment of silence for the 37,000 children who die every day from various causes, Qazox? Every day. Oh, wait, sorry, (37,000 x 365 x infinity) < 3,000. I forgot.

Sorry, I just need to put things in perspective here. Your argument is irritating.

well if we're gonna do that then why not a moment of silence for the estimated 14 billion people that have died since the beginning of time?

I'm not saying that the 3,000 people that died on 9-11 are more important than the 37,000 or so children that die each day.If you want.. take a moment of silence to remember a loved-one who died, or a friend or anybody.

Besides. which of the following would most people in the world remember?

The millions who died due to the Holocaust or the millions of regular people who died during the same time period around the world? That reason is why I asked for the moments of silence.

Personally I don't give two shits about the middle east or china or any other country including the US. A country is a political thing. A NATION is its people and people come first.

Well, you seem to think the definition has something to do with defending your life or the lives of innocence. I would describe that as good.



k:

thank you, I stand corrected.but I still dont see how me saying;
'A person can be courageous on either side of a battle.Read my post again and you will see that I dont label either side as good or bad.'
means I think that you have to save the lives of the innocent.To be fair I did imply that in my first point,but I did attempt to correct myself in the next.
I aplogise for ranting:p

joining the army takes courage, right?

putting yourself into danger for a cause you believe in? bringing justice to your enemies at (potentially) the cost of your own life? that takes courage right?

if a soldier jumps into a trench full of enemy soldiers to kill as many as he can, knowing all the time that he won't make it back, is that curageous?

is there really a difference between that and simply strapping a bomb to your chest and walking among them to set it off?



The army asks if you are willing to die for what you believe is right. Well, the fundamentalists sure are.

I am not saying that the terrorists are right, or that what they do is right or that they are right.

Don't be so hasty to dismiss the strength of their belief just because you don't share that belief.




In my mind, the question is not whether or not I am willing to die for my country (which I am) but whether or not I am willing to kill for my country (which I am not)

After much consideration, I have come to this conclusion, and realized this boundary in myself. To end a life: any life, is the single most despicable act I can imagine.

It is for this reason that I am not a part of this nation's armed forces, and it is for this reason that I cannot respect the decisions of those who do. I may respect the strength of their belief. the strength of belief that allows you to sail halfway across the world and kill for what you believe in.


A death is a tragedy.
A death caused by the actions of others is a crime.
A death caused by the apathy of others is just as bad.


Sorry for the rambling, and it's a bit off topic (whatever that means around here), so here's a good 9/11 related article:

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/911truth.html

it's a rebuttal to the "Loose change" morons who think the whole thing was a government conspiracy

well its a free world and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If not then why is there an Internet??? IMHO.. why person who blows themselves up for any political, personal or religous reason is a coward. If they did have any guts, then why did they take the esy way out instead of doing it face-to-face?? It's a lot harder to kill someone when you see their eyes.

Is that how the Americans do it? No. They carpet bomb cities in the hope of hitting the right targets, and often hit wedding parties, British troops etc.

Yes, remember 9/11 but also remember all the innocent people who have been killed in the phoney wars against terror.

Also, could cowardise be aimed at the American military as well. Afghanistan and Iraq were soft targets - try hitting the real players in terror like Syria, Iran and Pakistan or are they too scared?

http://cagle.com/news/9115years/images/sherffius21.jpg

I'll mourn the people who died in 9/11...

If you'll help me mournt he fact that we leave the crater, telling whomever did this everyday "We are not strong enough to stand up when you hit us."

Those terrorists were damn cowards. Blowing yourself up doesn't take guts. Their deaths are instantaneous and painless. Everyone else in the floors above the impact who weren't killed by the plane crash had to wait. Knowing that if the tower didn't fall, they'd probably burn to death or die from smoke inhalation, both rather slow, painful deaths. The ones with guts were those who went against instinct to save others, or those who faced their fate for more than an hour as the steel warped and gave way.

Anyone dedicated to a jihad against America is nothing more than a yellowbellied coward. They've twisted the Qur`an so far beyond it's meaning that they're killing innocent people for no reason other than living in a nation they despise. If you hate the imperialist government, then take that out, and not it's citizens.

Cowards.

Those terrorists were damn cowards. Blowing yourself up doesn't take guts. Their deaths are instantaneous and painless. Everyone else in the floors above the impact who weren't killed by the plane crash had to wait. Knowing that if the tower didn't fall, they'd probably burn to death or die from smoke inhalation, both rather slow, painful deaths. The ones with guts were those who went against instinct to save others, or those who faced their fate for more than an hour as the steel warped and gave way.

Anyone dedicated to a jihad against America is nothing more than a yellowbellied coward. They've twisted the Qur`an so far beyond it's meaning that they're killing innocent people for no reason other than living in a nation they despise. If you hate the imperialist government, then take that out, and not it's citizens.

Cowards.

Using Napalm (Vietnam) and phosphorous bombs = long slow painful death

Perhaps if Americans looked at why certain people hate them so much they might be able to change the attitudes of the terrorists.
You are not world police. Not all countries want your way of government.
Practice what you preach (American democracy should abhor Gitmo and the torture of suspects abroad)
I am not anti American, just anti right wing 'we are the only voice to be listened to' bully boy regime you have in power at the moment

Hystery or Hystory ?

Those terrorists were damn cowards. Blowing yourself up doesn't take guts.

Really? Maybe you could try it and show us.

Their deaths are instantaneous and painless.

Yeah, but so is the death of a fighter pilot whose plane blows up. And I doubt the USAF is gonna let you call them cowards just because its not a long, protracted death.

.The ones with guts were those who went against instinct to save others, or those who faced their fate for more than an hour as the steel warped and gave way.

Pointing out that person B has guts doesn't prove anything about the courage of person A.

Anyone dedicated to a jihad against America is nothing more than a yellowbellied coward.


You're just obviously using the word "coward" because its the strongest invective you can think to say and you want to denigrate the enemy somehow. It doesn't really apply because the definition of cowardice is not "dedication to a jihad against America." In fact, dedication may well be an indication of courage according to definition posted already.

They've twisted the Qur`an so far beyond it's meaning that they're killing innocent people for no reason other than living in a nation they despise. If you hate the imperialist government, then take that out, and not it's citizens.

Are you honestly recommending the terrorists try to take out the US government? Thats a little difficult. I mean I'm sure they would love to. They even had a plane for the white house and the pentagon, so it seems like they tried.

Estimated number of civillians killed worldwide since september 11 as a result of the war on terror : 72,000

This is according to the Independent

Pretty shocking whatever way you look at it

Just so we're clear, I'm not saying you can't remember 9/11 and its victims. In fact, I actually put an American flag in my back window and plan on leaving it there til the end of the night tonight. And for those of you who don't know, I'm a (patriotic) Canadian.

Qazox, when you opened this thread you were implying that only 9/11 victims were important to remember, and failed to take into account (a) others that have died, both military and civilian, as a result of the actions immediately following 9/11, (b) people that have died of preventable causes in general (AIDS, poverty, famine etc.) and (c) general mass tragedy in the past (like WWI and WWII etc.)

Now that you have clarified that, you're no longer being hypocritical. So thank you for clearing that up immediately after I and others questioned you.

I'm not being sarcastic. Your pity does not contradict my point.

killing yourself no matter how, or why is a cowardly act and only proves you do not have the courage to go on living. people who would kill them selves are the most pathetic people in world and deserve pitty.

I spend much thought on whether to wear my commemorative pin today or not, for the U.S. I lived in has changed so much over the course of the last five years I often have trouble to recognize it today. It is no longer the America I learned to know, to appreciate, I might go as far as to say, to love.

(Pretty much like that "Have you seen me"-link up there).

Nevertheless, I decided to wear it when I left the house, in combination with my NYC hat to go along with it.

For I have found and realized that the events of that tragic day have also changed me and my life, although I live on the other side of the big pond.

I have been to NYC twice, in 1998 where I had the great chance to do a round trip over the bay in a small sports plane, and again in 2002 - the trip on which I wanted to visit the WTC for I hadn't managed to get on top the last time. Only that it wasn't there anymore...

My thoughts and prayers are not only with and for those who have lost their lives on that very day, or after that - I pray for mankind to maybe, one day, simply get along with each other, for as different as we all might be, yet, we are all the same.

So, before I go to bed tonight - I will send out a thought to everyone.

Be safe, take care, tell your family how much you love them, tell your friends what they mean to you, be grateful for every day you have on this, our planet, and try to learn how to forgive whilst not forgetting.

Good night, y'all!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/WTC.jpg

I am sad to say that I am ashamed of NS and of what this has become. He started with a simple request that people remember those who died in the tragedy of 9/11... no different then what most people in America have been asked to do today (whether it be at school, work, watching Football, or anything else).

Instead of simply acknowledging the tragedy and those who died, people had to start up arguments about terrorists being cowards and the like. Who cares. Today is the 5th anniversary of one of the greatest tragedies in our history. You can bring up the people who die everyday, you can talk about WWII, you can talk about the Native Americans... but today is about how the US was attacked five years ago. Today is about how 3000 people were killed going about a normal day... about the hundreds of emergency responders that risked their lives to rush into the WTC and those 400 that never came out... This is about how our very lives and world were changed forever...

Why do you think being a suicide bomber is courageous?
I gettit that they certainly have guts(for trusting that they will go to heaven and cos theyre willing to risk blowing themselves up for nothing)but seriously, please explain how the killing of civilians is courageous?
There's a big difference between physical and moral cowardice.

On another note, CNN has put up the original coverage of 9/11 as it happened on their site for free. You can watch it here (http://www.cnn.com/video/us/2006/09/10/cnn.air.911.2001.affl/content.html#).

Since the calendar as we now know it was instituted by the papal bull "Inter Gravissimus," signed on 1582 February 24 by Pope Gregory XIII, I'd say this is the 424th anniversary of 9/11.

Why do people always call terrorists cowards? Blowing yourself up takes guts.
Heh, silly pun.

Just so we're clear, I'm not saying you can't remember 9/11 and its victims. In fact, I actually put an American flag in my back window and plan on leaving it there til the end of the night tonight. And for those of you who don't know, I'm a (patriotic) Canadian.

Qazox, when you opened this thread you were implying that only 9/11 victims were important to remember, and failed to take into account (a) others that have died, both military and civilian, as a result of the actions immediately following 9/11, (b) people that have died of preventable causes in general (AIDS, poverty, famine etc.) and (c) general mass tragedy in the past (like WWI and WWII etc.)

Now that you have clarified that, you're no longer being hypocritical. So thank you for clearing that up immediately after I and others questioned you.

That was truly my intention. I'm not saying that the civilians who have died due to the US fighting the war on terror aren't important also. I take a moment of silence on the days London and Mardrid were attacked as well, as well during Holocaust week. Killing anyone is not an answer, but purposefully killing others just becuase they are a different color, race, religion, sex height or whatever is even more wrong.