NationStates Jolt Archive

Say you are walking in the woods, alone in the 1800s. I mean alone in every sense of the word, you have had absolutely no contact with another human being, ever nobody knows you exist. A random guillatine falls, on your leg, severing it completely and perfectly. You somehow manage to heal yourself on you own and survive. Immediately after the wound is healed, you get hit with a fit of amnesia, absolute amnesia. You cannot remember anything that happened before the amnesia attack. Now, did you ever have a leg in the first place?

Sure. Let's say you figure out some way of looking at your genes. Heck, let's say you look at way the stump's structured and are vaguely intelligent. There are always ways of figuring it out.

Sure. Let's say you figure out some way of looking at your genes. Heck, let's say you look at way the stump's structured and are vaguely intelligent. There are always ways of figuring it out.

Argh, I'm going to have to edit the OP check back later....

Update:edited

Argh, I'm going to have to edit the OP check back later....

Update:edited

Still applies. Slice off someone's leg exactly, you've got a large bone sticking out but not doing anything, and a series of muscles with the same situation. It wouldn't be too hard to figure out that there is supposed to be something attached.

Still applies. Slice off someone's leg exactly, you've got a large bone sticking out but not doing anything, and a series of muscles with the same situation. It wouldn't be too hard to figure out that there is supposed to be something attached.

and if you never have any contact with another human(say you the last one on earth)? How would you tell that you were supposed to have two legs?

Still applies. Slice off someone's leg exactly, you've got a large bone sticking out but not doing anything, and a series of muscles with the same situation. It wouldn't be too hard to figure out that there is supposed to be something attached.

Besides, he has another leg to compare it to. Also, if this hypothetical person does or has ever worn pants, he will notice that it doesn't exactly fit right... with a lot of leg left over.

Say you are walking in the woods, alone in the 1800s. I mean alone in every sense of the word, you have had absolutely no contact with another human being, ever nobody knows you exist. A random guillatine falls, on your leg, severing it completely and perfectly. You somehow manage to heal yourself on you own and survive. Immediately after the wound is healed, you get hit with a fit of amnesia, absolute amnesia. You cannot remember anything that happened before the amnesia attack. Now, did you ever have a leg in the first place?

Yes. I need only happen to notice the symmetry of the human body, mirrored on the left and right. I have two eyebrows, two eyes, two nostrils, two arms, two hands...

...one leg and one stump. Even if I don't know how the leg had gone missing, I can still reasonably conclude that there was one (or at least normally should or could be one) there before whatever event I can't remember.

Besides, he has another leg to compare it to. Also, if this hypothetical person does or has ever worn pants, he will notice that it doesn't exactly fit right... with a lot of leg left over.

Damnit, I wanted philosophy not logical induction, NSG be a harsh mistress;P

What I am trying to say is:

Is there an absolute reality? Or is reality just constructed from our perceptions and the memories of these perceptions?

Immediately after the wound is healed, you get hit with a fit of amnesia, absolute amnesia. You cannot remember anything that happened before the amnesia attack. Now, did you ever have a leg in the first place?

One may have undergone complete amnesia, but one presumably hasn't lost learned skills like how to walk. It is highly likely that unconscious attempts to use the missing leg will suggest its prior existence.

Damnit, I wanted philosophy not logical induction, NSG be a harsh mistress

You want philosophy? You've opened up a can of worms concerning prelinguistic consciousness - if this individual has had no contact with other humans, then they presumably have no language, and so their thinking processes are most likely either severely limited or incomprehensible.

A random guillatine falls, on your leg, severing it

...

did you ever have a leg in the first place?

Yes you did, because it is already given as part of the premise. :)

You want philosophy? You've opened up a can of worms concerning prelinguistic consciousness - if this individual has had no contact with other humans, then they presumably have no language, and so their thinking processes are most likely either severely limited or incomprehensible.

I want this can of worms to be opened, so far its been disappointing to say the least.

I want this can of worms to be opened, so far its been disappointing to say the least.

Read Frankenstein?

I would. I love symmetry and I'd notice that something was wrong.

I would. I love symmetry and I'd notice that something was wrong.

Would you also assume that there is something wrong with your testicles due to their asymmetry?

if you drew pictures of yourself before the accident and then saw thos pictures after the amnesia you could try to remember a time when you once had a leg.

Would you also assume that there is something wrong with your testicles due to their asymmetry?
How can you possibly know that my testicles are asymetrical?! I don't use Facebook!
:D
Most of my body is symmetrical. I'd probably compare the lack of a leg to the fact that there is no such lack on my arms.

New hypothetical. You are the last man on earth and are alone in the forest. Your package gets chopped off. You heal and get amnesia. You meet a woman who's never seen a man. Did you ever have a penis?

I hate these kinds of hypotheticals.

"A tree falls in the woods. Was there a tree?"

YES YOU JUST SAID SO DAMMIT.

I hate these kinds of hypotheticals.

"A tree falls in the woods. Was there a tree?"

YES YOU JUST SAID SO DAMMIT.

"You will have sex with me" I just said so, doth that make it true?

"You will have sex with me" I just said so, doth that make it true?

False comparison. Both the O.P and this latest hypothetical state, as part of their premise, the answer to the question. In your quote here, you are simply making a prediction that is false. Its not even a hypothetical.

False comparison. Both the O.P and this latest hypothetical state, as part of their premise, the answer to the question. In your quote here, you are simply making a prediction that is false. Its not even a hypothetical.

Riiiiiight.

False comparison. Both the O.P and this latest hypothetical state, as part of their premise, the answer to the question. In your quote here, you are simply making a prediction that is false. Its not even a hypothetical.

I fail at metaphors, what I am trying to say "is there an absolute reality? Or is reality a construct of our perceptions...

I fail at metaphors, what I am trying to say "is there an absolute reality? Or is reality a construct of our perceptions...

Ah. Well, thats a matter of belief, really. I don't believe we live in the Matrix, I don't believe in the ancient greek perfect-idea-reality nonsense, I believe there is an absolute reality which, although is perceived subjectively, remains a single reality.

Although perhaps quantum mechanics can offer a counter argument to that.

You cannot remember anything that happened before the amnesia attack. Now, did you ever have a leg in the first place?

Don't people have the "phantom limb" symptom, where amputees have the feeling that the limb is still there?

Say you are walking in the woods, alone in the 1800s. I mean alone in every sense of the word, you have had absolutely no contact with another human being, ever nobody knows you exist. A random guillatine falls, on your leg, severing it completely and perfectly. You somehow manage to heal yourself on you own and survive. Immediately after the wound is healed, you get hit with a fit of amnesia, absolute amnesia. You cannot remember anything that happened before the amnesia attack. Now, did you ever have a leg in the first place?

A much more interesting (to me) and fundamental question is: would you have any sort of language in which to frame any of this?

Say you are walking in the woods, alone in the 1800s. I mean alone in every sense of the word, you have had absolutely no contact with another human being, ever nobody knows you exist. A random guillatine falls, on your leg, severing it completely and perfectly. You somehow manage to heal yourself on you own and survive. Immediately after the wound is healed, you get hit with a fit of amnesia, absolute amnesia. You cannot remember anything that happened before the amnesia attack. Now, did you ever have a leg in the first place?

What happened in history happened, it matters not if we know it or not. By any other logic, the peoples of Easter Island wouldn't have existed until the Island was discovered. Just because others didn't know of them doesn't mean they didn't exist in history.

Or just because the bones of a specific animal haven't yet been dug up doesn't mean that animal didn't exist.

Knowledge is not the same as fact.

Of course you would still have had a leg!

You might not think that you did, or you may not consider whether you had one, but it was still there. Just like a baby doesn't know about quantum physics, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.