NationStates Jolt Archive

I was wondering what the legal boundries of falsifying a high school student's records are. My school (which shall remain nameless) has recently enacted a policy that all students enrolled in AP classes must take the AP exam given by the College Board at the end of the year. Failure to do so will result in the course being marked as 'Basic'. ( This is in California if anyone cares). This smacks of three problems to me, but tell me if I'm off base. First, they intend to lie on a state record saying that the student completed only a 'Basic' course when they had in fact completed an AP course and they intend to say that this is the course they were enrolled in for the entirey of the year despite the obvious schedule flaws this produces. Second, it is economically disadvantages to poorer students who cannot afford to take the test (the test costs about $100 and is given by a coporation for those of you who didn't know) thus creating an unequal educational envoronment. Third, it's flat out coercion, and at the benefit of a corporate entity by a federal one no less. Just my thoughts. If anyone can cite me any specific legal documents pertaining to this I'd be grateful.

That IS downright coercion, and something really should be done about that!

I am very lucky such rules have not been inacted at my school, as I am taking an AP class

I know that certain Florida school districts pay for the test. If you don't take it, then they mark it as honors, not AP, and so it's only one level dropped. And they tell us all this at the beginning of every school year, with syllabusses to sign stating that we understand this, so we can't do much about that. I don't know about California though. Quaky state, that one.

Hmm, odd. I don't think the fact that they are forcing students to pay for a test just so they can get credit for their AP class is entirely legal... It almost sounds like extortion. I know in my state, Minnesota, we aren't forced to take the test (although our teacher highly reccomends it) and we will still get the credit for taking an AP course. I mean, I would take the test, required or not.
On a side note, I just finished an AP European History class and am in the midst of taking an AP Macro economics class. I obviously took the History test, and I got a 3 out of 5. That is good. I may get 8 college credits now. (I know, I'm bragging. Shut up.)

There are two things here. First of all, marking an advanced class as basic is clearly a bad policy. Students take these classes, largely, to increase their chances of advancement to higher education, whether they take the tests and get college credits or not. There is no reason that the school should remove that possibility.

Second of all, there is the issue of students being required to pay for the tests. I know that, when I took AP tests, my school paid for them. Also, IIRC, there have been court decisions that have decreed that school requirements that have a monetary cost, but cannot be covered by the student, must be covered by the school. The school cannot, for instance, exclude students from field trips because they cannot personally pay. The school must provide school supplies to students unable to pay for them. And so on. Even if the school continues to require students to pay for the tests in general, I would say that this would clearly fall under the same rules - those students who cannot pay for it must be paid for by the school system.

What is the benefit to taking an AP class as opposed to an honors class if you don't intend to take the test?
In the realm of personal experience, I only went through the hassle of AP English so I could make a go at the AP test and skip at least one of those bothersome essay-factories that Universities so love to put Freshmen in.

What is the benefit to taking an AP class as opposed to an honors class if you don't intend to take the test?
In the realm of personal experience, I only went through the hassle of AP English so I could make a go at the AP test and skip at least one of those bothersome essay-factories that Universities so love to put Freshmen in.

It still looks better on your transcript.

Also, some people take an AP class and find that they are sincerley not ready for the test. For example, they might of had a bad teacher or had never done thier homework. They are not going to waist money and time for a long and onerous test if they know they arn't going to get higher than a 2

While I think that marking an AP class as basic is foolish, the school is not falsifying records.

I was wondering what the legal boundries of falsifying a high school student's records are. My school (which shall remain nameless) has recently enacted a policy that all students enrolled in AP classes must take the AP exam given by the College Board at the end of the year. Failure to do so will result in the course being marked as 'Basic'. ( This is in California if anyone cares). This smacks of three problems to me, but tell me if I'm off base. First, they intend to lie on a state record saying that the student completed only a 'Basic' course when they had in fact completed an AP course and they intend to say that this is the course they were enrolled in for the entirey of the year despite the obvious schedule flaws this produces. Second, it is economically disadvantages to poorer students who cannot afford to take the test (the test costs about $100 and is given by a coporation for those of you who didn't know) thus creating an unequal educational envoronment. Third, it's flat out coercion, and at the benefit of a corporate entity by a federal one no less. Just my thoughts. If anyone can cite me any specific legal documents pertaining to this I'd be grateful.
If an AP exam can be defined as an integral part of the course, then the school can probably get away with it. Except that they would probably be required to pay for the testing fee, since it is illegal to charge money for a public school course (barring lab fees and such, and test costs don't count as lab fees).

It still looks better on your transcript.

Also, some people take an AP class and find that they are sincerley not ready for the test. For example, they might of had a bad teacher or had never done thier homework. They are not going to waist money and time for a long and onerous test if they know they arn't going to get higher than a 2

How's it a waste of time? You take it during the school day.

sorry for the ignorance,but what is an AP ?.(btw Im british but want to know what your on about anyway even tho it doesnt affect me)

AP, or Advanced Placement, means that the course is supposedly college-level. Students generally get an extra point on their grade, meaning a B is an A, a C is a B, and an A is an A + 1 point. An A is considered 4 points on your grade point average, at least in california, so an A in an AP class is considered 5 points.

Now, a main reason to take these classes are to take the corresponding AP test. This is a fairly rigorous test, depending on the class, which if you get a high enough score on, you can either pass certain college classes without having to take them, or test up into certain classes without taking the prerequisites. Its a 5 point test; where I go to school, Diablo Valley College, it works like this:

I got a 3 on an english AP test. A 4 or a 5 would give me the equivilent of English 122(a class preceded by English 116, 118, and 120). A score of 3 allows me to take english 122, without having to take any of the classes before it. A score of 2 or 1 would do nothing for me.

Now, as to the OP: There are programs for people who have low incomes to take the test as low as 5 dollars per test. You don't have to pay for the test at the beginning of the year, either; students are told in the syllabus and course description that there is an AP test associated with the class, and that it costs money. Teachers usually tell kids that if they have trouble paying, they should try to save up, or have their parents save up, a small amount of money each month. It can work up to saving 15 dollars a month to pay for the test.

Its no different than lab fee's, field trip fee's, etc. Some classes have these things as integral to the class, and students are made aware in advance of these costs. They aren't required classes, so there's nothing really illegal about it. So the second point isnt that big of a deal.

High school coerces students all the time. It restricts freedom of speech, assembly, and many other things. It forces students to take certain classes, some of them which have costs, such as lab fee's and field trip fee's. It forces students to stay on campus during lunches, etc, on many campuses. 18 year olds and above aren't allowed to smoke on school grounds at many campuses.

This form of coercion at least has a point. Many students take the class for the extra point on their GPA, with no intent to take the AP test. The only AP class I stayed in all year and didn't take the AP test in, was my european history class. It was my first, and I was sick the day a lot of the AP test info was given out. So I didn't really know what was going on, and didn't get my stuff done on time.

However, many people don't take it, and never have any intent to. The point of AP classes is to let highly focused students work hard in high school, so that they can advance more quickly in college. Its not so students can have that extra .3 in their GPA, so college's want them more.

AP, or advanced placement, is a series of classes taught at the high school level that are supposedly equivlent to college level classes. Students can opt to take a test at the end of the class and get college credit, allowing them to skip basic classes.

Since the classes are more difficult, they usually also have weighted GPAs to reflect that a 3.5 in an AP class is worth more than a 3.5 in a regular class.

First, they intend to lie on a state record saying that the student completed only a 'Basic' course when they had in fact completed an AP course and they intend to say that this is the course they were enrolled in for the entirey of the year despite the obvious schedule flaws this produces.
If the school has made it a requirement for AP credit to be awarded, it's not falsification of student records. It would be no different than receving an incompleate in other courses should you fail to compleate a requirement, even if you did every other bit of work.

Second, it is economically disadvantages to poorer students who cannot afford to take the test (the test costs about $100 and is given by a coporation for those of you who didn't know) thus creating an unequal educational envoronment.
This one is an actual concern, but one that has been with the AP system since it's begining where the cost of the test was not covered by the school district somehow.

Third, it's flat out coercion, and at the benefit of a corporate entity by a federal one no less.
Last I checked, the State of California and it's school systems were not the Federal government.

AP, or advanced placement, is a series of classes taught at the high school level that are supposedly equivlent to college level classes. Students can opt to take a test at the end of the class and get college credit, allowing them to skip basic classes.

Since the classes are more difficult, they usually also have weighted GPAs to reflect that a 3.5 in an AP class is worth more than a 3.5 in a regular class.

I've seen various different systems on how AP classes are treated in GPA's. The AP classes at my high school didn't count any higher than any other class (an A was a 4.0, B was 3.0, and so on). However, all tests in an AP class were curved up 10 points (which essentially did the same job). Other schools give a 5-pt. A for AP tests. Some make no changes at all. It varies quite a bit.

The way colleges handle AP classes varies quite a bit as well. Some will accept AP tests for credit, but don't actually allow any classes to be skipped - so that you just end up with extra credit hours. Some don't accept all AP classes at all. Some will allow you to get out of a class only if you score a 4 or 5. Some will give credit for a 3. And so on...

If the school has made it a requirement for AP credit to be awarded, it's not falsification of student records. It would be no different than receving an incompleate in other courses should you fail to compleate a requirement, even if you did every other bit of work.

Actually, an incomplete would be more accurate than marking the course as an entirely different course, which is what they are actually doing. What they are doing is the equivalent of taking a Calculus course, putting a test requirement on the end, and then giving the student credit for "general math" if they don't take the test.

This one is an actual concern, but one that has been with the AP system since it's begining where the cost of the test was not covered by the school district somehow.

However, most schools do not *require* students to take the test in order to receive credit for the class. The moment they make it a class requirement, the school becomes responsible for paying the costs for any and all students who cannot pay for themselves - just as they have to cover the costs of field trips, lab supplies, school supplies, and even meals at school for students whose parents cannot pay.

I know that certain Florida school districts pay for the test. If you don't take it, then they mark it as honors, not AP, and so it's only one level dropped. And they tell us all this at the beginning of every school year, with syllabusses to sign stating that we understand this, so we can't do much about that. I don't know about California though. Quaky state, that one.

Yes, my district in Florida pays for it. And I don't exactly remember, but I think they said that not taking the test was not an option, and I know that students with an AP test in the afternoon do not have to attend their classes that morning (altough I did), so that they have more time to study for it.

I was wondering what the legal boundries of falsifying a high school student's records are. My school (which shall remain nameless) has recently enacted a policy that all students enrolled in AP classes must take the AP exam given by the College Board at the end of the year. Failure to do so will result in the course being marked as 'Basic'. ( This is in California if anyone cares). This smacks of three problems to me, but tell me if I'm off base. First, they intend to lie on a state record saying that the student completed only a 'Basic' course when they had in fact completed an AP course and they intend to say that this is the course they were enrolled in for the entirey of the year despite the obvious schedule flaws this produces. Second, it is economically disadvantages to poorer students who cannot afford to take the test (the test costs about $100 and is given by a coporation for those of you who didn't know) thus creating an unequal educational envoronment. Third, it's flat out coercion, and at the benefit of a corporate entity by a federal one no less. Just my thoughts. If anyone can cite me any specific legal documents pertaining to this I'd be grateful.

That doesn't sound like falsifying records per se. If you really can't afford the testing fee, I suggest talking to your teachers/administrators. There may well be a way to get that paid for; I'm pretty sure some school districts have programs to help low-income families with such expenses.

I don't see any problem with mandating taking the test, though. At my high school, the AP exam was considered to be the final exam in an AP course, and one obviously couldn't just skip the final. If you genuinely can't pay the fee and no assistance is offered, that might be worth protesting, but not giving AP credit to students who don't complete AP course requirements which they were informed of in advance makes sense to me.

(Besides, I'll never understand why students would choose not to take a test they've just spent nine months preparing for. I'd rather potentially waste a couple of hours getting a less-than-ideal score than waste nine freaking months studying for nothing!)