NationStates Jolt Archive

I feel called by God to write this message. A time is coming soon when sides must be chosen. Many have already chosen their sides, for some the side of the Lord and for many the side of Beelzebub, Satan, the Evil One, the Devil. The Lord has prepared a way for His own through the desert and the path of rightousness made clear. He is willing to restore sight to all of you spiritually blind and all of you weary He offers rest. Life eternal spent in His everlasting perfect light. Turn then to Lord, repent from evil. For hope yet still lives in such this message of doom.
The times of Daniel and Revelations draw nearer, the time of the ultimate victory of the Lord approaches. We Christian truely know the outcome already- the defeat of Beelzebub and thousand year reign of Jesus the Christ. The Messiah has already come to you, you Jews. Yet you were blind and did not see. You expected Him to come and to conquor, and yet that was not His plan. But that time predicted by the prophets draws nearer by the day, as it has for hundreds of years, and now key events come together. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but do not be afraid for these things must happen; so Jesus predicted. Now we hear of troubles in the Middle East, and Korea, and the entire world. Watch now for the false prophets then who claim that they the Christ. Do NOT listen for the aim to decieve and draw ones to the Evil One, Satan. You will hear of them preforming miracules signs and wonders, but I assure, as Christ assured all of those who read His Words, their power is of Devil and is purely evil.
The day of judgement will come, or the day of your death. Are you ready for that? Will you spend eternity in Heaven or in Hell?

lol fail.

I grew up in a trailer in rural Louisiana in a hurricane zone. Hell don't scare me.

is there supposed to be a discussion in this thread?

is there supposed to be a discussion in this thread?

I'm sure there will be.

I grew up in a trailer in rural Louisiana in a hurricane zone. Hell don't scare me.

It should though, image something hundreds of millions times worst than the worst possible thing you can think of, now imagine spending eternity in it. But on the other hand, imagine the best thing you know on this Earth, now imagine something hundreds of millions times better than that, what a great place to spend eternity- surrond by love and free from all pain and sin; an easy, in my opinion.

is there supposed to be a discussion in this thread?

http://www.rpgshop.com/images/uploaded/Yin-Yarr.jpg

Truthfully, if the mean-spirited-intolerant-style Christians are correct, I'm prepared to take a stand against God. Satan would be doing the right thing fighting against him.

is there supposed to be a discussion in this thread?

Feel free to respond in whatever why you see fit, but please let's keep it respectful.

I think they should just pick some guy and say "yeah, him, he's the Messiah." and let the world deal with it (or not) however they like (or don't like).

Truthfully, if the mean-spirited-intolerant-style Christians are correct, I'm prepared to take a stand against God. Satan would be doing the right thing fighting against him.

To stand against God is to be defeated. I may seem intolerant, but that is only because I believe that there is a right and a wrong and there is no middle ground. What is right is good, what is wrong is evil. I beg of you please reconsider your statement and consider the ultimate price, your soul. Is anything worth that?

Feel free to respond in whatever why you see fit, but please let's keep it respectful.

oh my god, your serious...I thought this was a parody


well you do realize that there have 2.86x10 to the 47th power religions that have said the same fudemental thing, and yet nothing happened.

furthermore, who are you to determine when god will bring the world to an end? only god knows, let him decide, instead of forcing what you think he believes on others.

I think they should just pick some guy and say "yeah, him, he's the Messiah." and let the world deal with it (or not) however they like (or don't like).

That is what will come, and all that are proclaimed Christ will be but false Christs, but the true Messiah has already come, His name is Jesus. He was born of a virgin, died upon a cross completely sinless, and rose again from the dead three days later. He fulfills all the prophecies.

I think you're full of shit. There. That's my heroic stand.

oh my god, your serious...I thought this was a parody


well you do realize that there have 2.86x10 to the 47th power religions that have said the same fudemental thing, and yet nothing happened.

furthermore, who are you to determine when god will bring the world to an end?

I never said a date or even an age, all I said was what has been said before, the end is approaching and you can see the signs of the end times unfolding right before your very eyes. Not even the Son knows the date on which these events will occur, only the Father and His time is perfect and different from ours for He is outside all time.

I think you're full of shit. There. That's my heroic stand.

You are free to state your opinion.

To stand against God is to be defeated. I may seem intolerant, but that is only because I believe that there is a right and a wrong and there is no middle ground. What is right is good, what is wrong is evil. I beg of you please reconsider your statement and consider the ultimate price, your soul. Is anything worth that?

I didn't mean you personally. I meant the "God Hates Fags" types. If you're one of those, then I do mean you then...

I do think it is worth it. I will not allow hate to overcome me out of fear of some overbearing creator god. Good isn't what he decides, it is what is actually good for all people. I'd rather live in a lake of fire than bow down to a intolerant, murdering, ass that allows all the suffering in the world to exist, and is willing to send good people to Hell for all eternity.

Do you know you read like a doomsday prohphet? :)

Hope for Tomorrow, Live for Today, Remember the Past

HA, thats my motto for my nation:p

I never said a date or even an age, all I said was what has been said before, the end is approaching and you can see the signs of the end times unfolding right before your very eyes. Not even the Son knows the date on which these events will occur, only the Father and His time is perfect and different from ours for He is outside all time.

I thought the father and the son were the same being... I just don't see why people have to make such a huge deal about salvation, live your life according to christ's teachings, do good, abstain from evil, let god deal with all the details...

This just seems to be the right topic where I can repeat my question from another thread:

As far as I know Satan, as depicted in christian mythology, isn't dumb but highly intelligent.
Since it is clear to christians what will happen to him and all his minions when the youngest judgement comes upon them(you know, eternal suffering in the lake of fire etc., etc.) and that there is no way he could win his war against god, shouldn't he have developed a "Plan B" or something like that, by now? I mean, everybody knows what the Apocalypse of John says about Armageddon. That's common knowledge for over 2000 years now. Would't that be enough time for him to search for some escape routes?

I feel called by God to write this message. A time is coming soon when sides must be chosen. Many have already chosen their sides, for some the side of the Lord and for many the side of Beelzebub, Satan, the Evil One, the Devil. The Lord has prepared a way for His own through the desert and the path of rightousness made clear. He is willing to restore sight to all of you spiritually blind and all of you weary He offers rest. Life eternal spent in His everlasting perfect light. Turn then to Lord, repent from evil. For hope yet still lives in such this message of doom.
The times of Daniel and Revelations draw nearer, the time of the ultimate victory of the Lord approaches. We Christian truely know the outcome already- the defeat of Beelzebub and thousand year reign of Jesus the Christ. The Messiah has already come to you, you Jews. Yet you were blind and did not see. You expected Him to come and to conquor, and yet that was not His plan. But that time predicted by the prophets draws nearer by the day, as it has for hundreds of years, and now key events come together. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but do not be afraid for these things must happen; so Jesus predicted. Now we hear of troubles in the Middle East, and Korea, and the entire world. Watch now for the false prophets then who claim that they the Christ. Do NOT listen for the aim to decieve and draw ones to the Evil One, Satan. You will hear of them preforming miracules signs and wonders, but I assure, as Christ assured all of those who read His Words, their power is of Devil and is purely evil.
The day of judgement will come, or the day of your death. Are you ready for that? Will you spend eternity in Heaven or in Hell?
I'm Jewish. What happens to me? Do Jews get to go to Heaven as long as we are good also, because "God chose us"???

I'm Jewish. What happens to me? Do Jews get to go to Heaven as long as we are good also, because "God chose us"???

You go to hell with the murdered puppies and Robert Duvall.

I didn't mean you personally. I meant the "God Hates Fags" types. If you're one of those, then I do mean you then...

I do think it is worth it. I will not allow hate to overcome me out of fear of some overbearing creator god. Good isn't what he decides, it is what is actually good for all people. I'd rather live in a lake of fire than bowing down to a intolerant, murdering, ass that allows all the suffering in the world to exist, and is willing to send good people to Hell for all eternity.

God does not hate any person, we were all created in His image, He merely hates our sin.

God created the world to be good, but He also created man with free will, for if we were forced to love Him, then it would not be love at all. Man was created perfect, and he messed it up, so don't blame God for what is our fault (it is as much my own as it is yours). God does like it when we suffer, and it is difficult to grasp why He allows it to happen, but I will tell you this; God does not want any one to go to Hell. Those who go to Hell go their because they chose not to accept Christ. People who have not been redeemed in Christ go to Hell because God cannot be near sin because He is completely perfect, He is holy. It is impossible for the human mind to understand exactly what this means, but I am willing to trust a God who sent His Son to die that we might believe and be saved.

If all else fails, since I have eternity to achieve enlightenment, this will be me in Hell:

http://static.flickr.com/28/59752252_5df0b556d3_m.jpg

Do you know you read like a doomsday prohphet? :)

um. . .

I thought the father and the son were the same being... I just don't see why people have to make such a huge deal about salvation, live your life according to christ's teachings, do good, abstain from evil, let god deal with all the details...

The Father and Son and Holy Spirit are three one. One God, three parts. It isn't enough to just live a good life, you must live in God and for God, thus you must be saved. Otherwise your sins are not erased and you cannot be near God.

This just seems to be the right topic where I can repeat my question from another thread:

As far as I know Satan, as depicted in christian mythology, isn't dumb but highly intelligent.
Since it is clear to christians what will happen to him and all his minions when the youngest judgement comes upon them(you know, eternal suffering in the lake of fire etc., etc.) and that there is no way he could win his war against god, shouldn't he have developed a "Plan B" or something like that, by now? I mean, everybody knows what the Apocalypse of John says about Armageddon. That's common knowledge for over 2000 years now. Would't that be enough time for him to search for some escape routes?

maybe this is just the agnostic in me coming out, but how on earth could human being be on the same intellectual level as the creator of all life and reality, or the top lieutenant of this creator? They are on an entirely different plane of existence. To think that humans could understand god is presumptious. Jesus' parable of an Ant is a good reference here.

I'm Jewish. What happens to me? Do Jews get to go to Heaven as long as we are good also, because "God chose us"???

You were God's chosen people and you still are! But you will not go to Heaven just because you are a Jew, for even the Jews have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. You will go to Heaven if you accept Jesus as Messiah.

-snip-

Right then...

Is there a third-party in these disputes? Because... Basically I'm against both sides. Can I vote for the Greens or something?

And dude... Every religion has told us that these must be the last days, but so far they have yet to be right. You'll forgive me if I don't take you seriously in the least.

You were God's chosen people and you still are! But you will not go to Heaven just because you are a Jew, for even the Jews have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. You will go to Heaven if you accept Jesus as Messiah.

Then they wouldn't be Jews. They'd be Christians. So in effect Jews go to Hell.

This just seems to be the right topic where I can repeat my question from another thread:

As far as I know Satan, as depicted in christian mythology, isn't dumb but highly intelligent.
Since it is clear to christians what will happen to him and all his minions when the youngest judgement comes upon them(you know, eternal suffering in the lake of fire etc., etc.) and that there is no way he could win his war against god, shouldn't he have developed a "Plan B" or something like that, by now? I mean, everybody knows what the Apocalypse of John says about Armageddon. That's common knowledge for over 2000 years now. Would't that be enough time for him to search for some escape routes?

Yes, Satan is extemally intellegent and great, but God is so much greater.

Beelzebub still sties to win, in fact I would imagine him laughing that God has already told us what will happen, but doesn't the fact that it still will happen and God will still win make it so much more amazing?

Those who say they know when the world will end, don't. In Christianity, the date of the end cannot be known, and the events described in the book of Daniel have not been fulfilled, especially considering that the Jews do not believe the Messiah has come.

Even so, there is absolutely zero proof that the Judeo-Christian tradition is correct.

maybe this is just the agnostic in me coming out, but how on earth could human being be on the same intellectual level as the creator of all life and reality, or the top lieutenant of this creator? They are on an entirely different plane of existence. To think that humans could understand god is presumptious. Jesus' parable of an Ant is a good reference here.

Good point! Humans cannot understand God, He is pure and completly above us. He is a spiritual being, we are physical beings. But as Creator and Sustanor of the Universe, He interacts with His creation.

Good point! Humans cannot understand God, He is pure and completly above us. He is a spiritual being, we are physical beings. But as Creator and Sustanor of the Universe, He interacts with His creation.

Then perhaps you should stop being spokesperson for God. He has press agents for that sort of thing.

This was posted on another site I frequent. Seemed relevant. :D

http://www.abhota.info/end1.htm

(fark.com, if anyone is interested, good site to get random news and stuff)

Good point! Humans cannot understand God, He is pure and completly above us. He is a spiritual being, we are physical beings. But as Creator and Sustanor of the Universe, He interacts with His creation.

But if we can't understand him, then there is no way to know what He has told us in his own words. It is therefore impossible that the Bible is the literal word of God; it would have to be translated to make it understandable to us, and if that were true than any religious text could be interpreted as the word of God designed to be accessible to the culture it was given to.

maybe this is just the agnostic in me coming out, but how on earth could human being be on the same intellectual level as the creator of all life and reality, or the top lieutenant of this creator? They are on an entirely different plane of existence. To think that humans could understand god is presumptious. Jesus' parable of an Ant is a good reference here.

I fail to see what this has to do with my question. I was asking why the devil should still try to stand up against God if his defeat is inevitable.
Or do you mean that it is impossible for a human being to understand the devil's motifes? Well I guess, you don't have to exist on a different plane to realize that being ultimately defeated and thrown into a lake of fire for all eternity is something you would like to avoid.

Beelzebub still sties to win, in fact I would imagine him laughing that God has already told us what will happen, but doesn't the fact that it still will happen and God will still win make it so much more amazing?
If the devil is so smart, then why would he just "laugh" at a "fact"? That's not intelligent, that's stupid.

See, my point is, if the devil (presuming he and God exist) is so superior to humans in terms of knowledge and intelligence, and STILL tries to fight God, than maybe the latter's ultimate victory isn't as much a given as the bible tolds us it is.

I feel called by God to write this message. A time is coming soon when sides must be chosen.

BOXERS OR BRIEFS? CHOOSE OR PERISH!

Anyway, I agree with you totally, but I was called by Satan to write this message. Deities tend to be highly interested in what gets posted on internet forums.

Then they wouldn't be Jews. They'd be Christians. So in effect Jews go to Hell.

My friend, God hearts aches for the Jews, but you are right. Only those who have accepted Christ as Savior and Messiah go to Heaven. Christains and Messianic Jews

On the battlefield, it can be difficult to remember what sin means.
Just remember, it's opposite/hypotenuse :D

Sorry, a tyrannical deity who coerces people into submission with the threat of eternal horrific torment is not my idea of a being deserving of worship.

Then perhaps you should stop being spokesperson for God. He has press agents for that sort of thing.

I am not the "spokesperson for God". I am His servant and have simply shared the message which He has requested of me to share. I do not claim to understand Him.

But if we can't understand him, then there is no way to know what He has told us in his own words. It is therefore impossible that the Bible is the literal word of God; it would have to be translated to make it understandable to us, and if that were true than any religious text could be interpreted as the word of God designed to be accessible to the culture it was given to.

We cannot understand the mind of God nor fully understand His Word, but He has reveals parts of it us as He sees fit.

I fail to see what this has to do with my question. I was asking why the devil should still try to stand up against God if his defeat is inevitable.
Or do you mean that it is impossible for a human being to understand the devil's motifes? Well I guess, you don't have to exist on a different plane to realize that being ultimately defeated and thrown into a lake of fire for all eternity is something you would like to avoid.



How do you know satan can feel pain? How do you know contact with fire would be something he would avoid? How do you know satan is male?

your using a human template to describe satan, how do you know satan even has a corporeal body?

If the devil is so smart, then why would he just "laugh" at a "fact"? That's not intelligent, that's stupid.

See, my point is, if the devil (presuming he and God exist) is so superior to humans in terms of knowledge and intelligence, and STILL tries to fight God, than maybe the latter's ultimate victory isn't as much a given as the bible tolds us it is.

He laughs because he finds it stupid for God to have had His plan revealed. Wouldn't you laugh if some one wrote a book on how they planned to defeat you? You would laugh because you would think that you could stop them. Same with Satan. He thinks that he can counteract God's plan which is why he still fights, but I am certain the God will win- in fact when Jesus died on the cross the victory was sealed.

Yes, the Devil is suerior to humans in terms of knowledge and intelligence. But God is still superior to Him. It is a fierce war, but the Bible never said that it wasn't. In fact the AntiChrist, who is ruled by Satan, will even rule over the Earth for a time, but in the end God will still win.

BOXERS OR BRIEFS? CHOOSE OR PERISH!

Anyway, I agree with you totally, but I was called by Satan to write this message. Deities tend to be highly interested in what gets posted on internet forums.

God cares for us all. He cares for everything and anything can be used as a tool in His plan.

Yes, the Devil is suerior to humans in terms of knowledge and intelligence.

But you, a human, knows that he will lose, and God does not?

God cares for us all. He cares for everything and anything can be used as a tool in His plan.

The same can be said of Satan. And after all, Satan is one of God's creatures.

Sorry, a tyrannical deity who coerces people into submission with the threat of eternal horrific torment is not my idea of a being deserving of worship.

God does not force any one to submit to Him. We all have free will and the choice is ours who we will follow. And Hell is not a threat, all who do not believe and repent will go there for eternity. This is because God is perfect and cannot be near sin. Our sins are only forgiven through Christ Jesus. And any God who would send His Son to die for us sinners and offer eternal life in Heaven as a gift if only we believe, is a God worth worshipping.

But you, a human, knows that he will lose, and God does not?

God does know that He will win, or He could not have told us in His Word.

The same can be said of Satan. And after all, Satan is one of God's creatures.

Lucifer became God's enemy when He tried to be greater than God. He tempted Eve to sin, yes it was her fault, but he tempted her. I do not know how to explain this, but God surely has some love for Satan, for He tells us that we must love our enemies and He is perfect, so He surely does. This does not mean that He will not punish us, or Satan. He is both just and merciful; a concept that is hard to understand.

God does not force any one to submit to Him. We all have free will and the choice is ours who we will follow.

Yes, we have a choice - eternal horrific torment, or servility.

That is not "freedom." Every brutal dictator in human history offered the same choice, though if your earlier description of Hell is accurate, God's level of vicious cruelty makes them look like the gentlest of saints.

And Hell is not a threat, all who do not believe and repent will go there for eternity. This is because God is perfect and cannot be near sin. Our sins are only forgiven through Christ Jesus.

"Cannot" is a misnomer when it is applied to an omnipotent being. "Will not" is more reasonable.

And why does God have the right to dictate to us what is sin and what isn't, let alone punish us for our choices?

And any God who would send His Son to die for us sinners and offer eternal life in Heaven as a gift if only we believe, is a God worth worshipping.

Sorry, genuine love is not conditional on servility.

God does know that He will win, or He could not have told us in His Word.

And does not Satan know this?

Humanity has sinned, So God got the people to murder his only son. Nice.

Also, everyone who died before the coming of Jesus, Why would God give them no ability to repent? If Jesus is the only way to salvation, they had no option at all, God condemned them to hell.


Feel free to believe what you want, I feel it should be looked at thouroughly incase it is right, but I don't (Yet?) see how it could.

To stand against God is to be defeated. I may seem intolerant, but that is only because I believe that there is a right and a wrong and there is no middle ground. What is right is good, what is wrong is evil. I beg of you please reconsider your statement and consider the ultimate price, your soul. Is anything worth that?

Gods and goddesses and faeries are just make-believe, silly. :fluffle:

If the only reason God sends sinners to Hell is because God cannot be near them, for God is perfect, Why would God make it such a bad place, why can't it merely be a heaven that God doesn't go to?

For if God loves us, God would not submit us to such horrors, merely because God cannot be near Sin.

I find it funny how every generation is "the last generation", how we are always on the brink of the end times and the coming of the Beast. Gotta watch out for those new age healers and their kitten sacrificing cronies.

Yes, we have a choice - eternal horrific torment, or servility.

That is not "freedom." Every brutal dictator in human history offered the same choice, though if your earlier description of Hell is accurate, God's level of vicious cruelty makes them look like the gentlest of saints.



"Cannot" is a misnomer when it is applied to an omnipotent being. "Will not" is more reasonable.

And why does God have the right to dictate to us what is sin and what isn't, let alone punish us for our choices?



Sorry, genuine love is not conditional on servility.

The choice must be as exteme as it is because we can either be with God or completely seperate from him, there is no middle ground. Because God is completely perfect he cannot (He will not do anything outside of His nature, which is perfect, therefore He must be serperate from all sin) be near sin.

Yes, God does have the right to tell us what is right and what is wrong, but without even reading the Bible we all know (for we were created in God's image and therefore have a conscience) what right and wrong is, say what you will but the person who murdered another knew what they were doing was wrong, and Hitler, I believe, even knew that he should not do what he did. God is our Heavenly Father and Creator and just as our earthly fathers have the right to punish us, so does he. Hell isn't really a punishment though, it is eternal death and eternal seperation from God for we, being imperfect, cannot enter into the presence of God for He is perfect.

God loves everyone. He loves even those who do not claim Christ as their Savior. He even loved Hitler. His love in unconditional.

And does not Satan know this?

He knows, but still believes that he cannot defeat God.

Humanity has sinned, So God got the people to murder his only son. Nice.

Also, everyone who died before the coming of Jesus, Why would God give them no ability to repent? If Jesus is the only way to salvation, they had no option at all, God condemned them to hell.


Feel free to believe what you want, I feel it should be looked at thouroughly incase it is right, but I don't (Yet?) see how it could.

Oh, but there was a way to Christ. If you obeyed the God's law completely and did not sin you could enter heaven.

The Keyi I am a christian, but trust me, no one will listen. At all. The people here come here with there beliefs and nothing anyone can say will change that. It's good that your spreading the news but here is not the place. Here is the worst place.

I proclaim you Jesussays. That is your new nickname.


(It's a forum reference, so it may be confusing at first. )

If the only reason God sends sinners to Hell is because God cannot be near them, for God is perfect, Why would God make it such a bad place, why can't it merely be a heaven that God doesn't go to?

For if God loves us, God would not submit us to such horrors, merely because God cannot be near Sin.

All which you have said is the truth. I don't fully understand, but let me explain what I do understand. What makes Hell as bad as it is, is that it is completely seperate from God. Now God acts in the Earth, but He will be found no where in Hell. Picture a place completely seperate from God, who is Perfect Love. We do not have to suffer 'such horrors'. Everyone could turn to Christ Jesus and be forgiven, but not everyone does. They bring it upon themselves.

I find it funny how every generation is "the last generation", how we are always on the brink of the end times and the coming of the Beast. Gotta watch out for those new age healers and their kitten sacrificing cronies.

agreed. Every generation believes they are the last generation I have two theories as to why this is

1. a megolomanical need for a generation to feel collectively special

2.A means of shifting responsibility off of the current generations shoulders (we don't need to stop global warming its all a part of the end times process).
This may not be consciously believed i might be a sub-conscious conviction.

Oh, but there was a way to Christ. If you obeyed the God's law completely and did not sin you could enter heaven.

Without Jesus, how were they to accept him as a saviour, for that is what must be done no?

Or do you just have to follow God's law? In which case, do I not have to accept Jesus as saviour and Messiah?

Help me out here, I'm honestly curious.

I find it funny how every generation is "the last generation", how we are always on the brink of the end times and the coming of the Beast. Gotta watch out for those new age healers and their kitten sacrificing cronies.

We may not be the last generation. I never made that claim. The end times are coming in God's time and He is outside of time so how can we really know. It could be a second from now, it could be a billion year from now.

I proclaim you Jesussays. That is your new nickname.


(It's a forum reference, so it may be confusing at first. )

His spellinks to gud for Jesussssanything. :p

The Keyi I am a christian, but trust me, no one will listen. At all. The people here come here with there beliefs and nothing anyone can say will change that. It's good that your spreading the news but here is not the place. Here is the worst place.

Jonah thought the same of Ninivah.

All which you have said is the truth. I don't fully understand, but let me explain what I do understand. What makes Hell as bad as it is, is that it is completely seperate from God. Now God acts in the Earth, but He will be found no where in Hell. Picture a place completely seperate from God, who is Perfect Love. We do not have to suffer 'such horrors'. Everyone could turn to Christ Jesus and be forgiven, but not everyone does. They bring it upon themselves.

God acts in the Earth. Is there no Sin here? For God must be completely seperated from Sin, for God is perfect.

If someone sins, they go to hell. God is Omnipotent? Surely God could set up some place nicer, that he can still do so without having to be connected to sin. I'm thinking like Earth.

If someone sins, they go to hell. Can you repent afterwards, for in the face of such overwhelming proof, I'm sure all would believe, can they be relieved of sin and thusly be free to enter heaven?


Edit: Be pleased that I argue with you (To some extent it's arguing) as If you are right (As you so believe you are) Then anything I say can only strengthen you're arguement, maybe even help you in your task of helping others realise the ultimate truth.

And see where it got him. He went insane. This is not ninivah this is the nationstates general forum. All hope has left these souless souls. (woo redundancy) I say spreading hope is good but hope is wasted on the hopeless.

The choice must be as exteme as it is because we can either be with God or completely seperate from him, there is no middle ground. Because God is completely perfect he cannot (He will not do anything outside of His nature, which is perfect, therefore He must be serperate from all sin) be near sin.

And doesn't vicious torture make someone "imperfect"? How does protecting people, even if they are sinful, from immense pain make a being any less perfect? The dictates of basic decency do not lead to imperfection; quite the opposite.

Yes, God does have the right to tell us what is right and what is wrong,

Why?

but without even reading the Bible we all know (for we were created in God's image and therefore have a conscience) what right and wrong is, say what you will but the person who murdered another knew what they were doing was wrong, and Hitler, I believe, even knew that he should not do what he did.

Murder, maybe. But premarital sex? A lack of piety? Failure to worship Jesus? There is nothing intuitively immoral about those.

God is our Heavenly Father and Creator and just as our earthly fathers have the right to punish us, so does he.

Our earthly parents do not have the right to punish us for thwarting their will, no. For behaving in ways that may be harmful to others, maybe, but not for mere disobedience.

Hell isn't really a punishment though, it is eternal death and eternal seperation from God for we, being imperfect, cannot enter into the presence of God for He is perfect.

Sure we can. All God has to do is let us.

God loves everyone. He loves even those who do not claim Christ as their Savior. He even loved Hitler. His love in unconditional.

He loves us so much that the system He created involves the eternal torture of most of us. How moving.

Jonah thought the same of Ninivah.

The difference is that Jonah was wrong, Keyi.

You;ve walked into the belly of the beast. Willingly, no less (says something about wisdom there).

Think of this as the Den of Elemental S(p)in.

The difference is that Jonah was wrong, Keyi.

You;ve walked into the belly of the beast. Willingly, no less (says something about wisdom there).

Think of this as the Den of Elemental S(p)in.


Ha Den is too small this is the capital city of Elemental S(p)in

Without Jesus, how were they to accept him as a saviour, for that is what must be done no?

Or do you just have to follow God's law? In which case, do I not have to accept Jesus as saviour and Messiah?

Help me out here, I'm honestly curious.

I don't completely understand, but live a life with no sin and you can go to heaven. The problem is that you cannot live a life with no sin. So God sent Jesus to die for us. You see, when Jesus died on the cross, He became our sins. Our sins were payed for by Him because of this. Listen, I know for a fact in your lifetime you have already sinned, I have too, we all have. So it is too late for us to get to Heaven by not sinning. The only way then is to tell Jesus that you are sinner and repent from your sins, tell Him that you believe that He died on the cross for your sins, that He became your sins. And ask Him to enter into your heart and life. All you have to do is pray that prayer and you will be forgiven of all of the sins that you have ever commited, gracious, huh?

[QUOTE=The Keyi;11658149]live a life with no sin and you can go to heaven. The problem is that you cannot live a life with no sin. QUOTE]


You state there are two ways to get into heaven. Live a Sin-free life, or repent to Jesus.

You state that no-one can do the first, so the second is the only option.

Before Jesus, surely that option was not available?

live a life with no sin and you can go to heaven. The problem is that you cannot live a life with no sin.


You state there are two ways to get into heaven. Live a Sin-free life, or repent to Jesus.

You state that no-one can do the first, so the second is the only option.

Before Jesus, surely that option was not available?

Alright, this is what i was always taught. those of the old testement, if they beleived in the promise of christ there sins were forgiven upon the comming of christ.

God acts in the Earth. Is there no Sin here? For God must be completely seperated from Sin, for God is perfect.

If someone sins, they go to hell. God is Omnipotent? Surely God could set up some place nicer, that he can still do so without having to be connected to sin. I'm thinking like Earth.

If someone sins, they go to hell. Can you repent afterwards, for in the face of such overwhelming proof, I'm sure all would believe, can they be relieved of sin and thusly be free to enter heaven?


Edit: Be pleased that I argue with you (To some extent it's arguing) as If you are right (As you so believe you are) Then anything I say can only strengthen you're arguement, maybe even help you in your task of helping others realise the ultimate truth.

Oh, I am extremly grateful for your questions and will do my best to answer.

No, the Earth is not perfect. God acts through the Holy Spirit one Earth, which is in Christians. The Father Himself is not present, nor the Son at this point in time. So God is acting through Christians. (He is three and one. The Father- who is the Creator-, the Son- who came to Earth, died, was reserecteed and is coming again, who died that we may live-, and the Holy Spirit- which guides us one Earth and the Father uses to act through us-).

If some one sins and is not forgiven, they go to Hell, not physically though. It is a spiritually place and one's soul goes there, which is still the same as the person. I do not understand everything about and I can only say what I said before, Hell is the complete absence of God. This means that He cannot
be there, not the Father, not the Son, and not the Holy Spirit.

No, after you are in Hell you stay in Hell. We get one life to chose and one life only. I don't understand why, and I had asked my pastor on one occassion, I'll tell you what he told me. Even the demons believe in God. You can believe in anything after you've seen it, true faith is believing without seeing.

Alright, this is what i was always taught. those of the old testement, if they beleived in the promise of christ there sins were forgiven upon the comming of christ.

I heard that as well, in the greek orthodox church, they believe christ descended into hell and freed all of the "virtous jews" like moses

So for those Pre-Christ, Thay had to believe it was going to happen and pre-emptively repent their sins.

It's still letting Jesus into your life that's important, or did he exist before his Mortal Incarnation as a spiritual being and a lot of Jesus' life was more or less 'Advertising' for the whole system.

The only war I'm worried about is one that occurs against people who don't know the glories of alcohol.

Yay Beer! All hail our mighty captain! Yay Beer!

And see where it got him. He went insane. This is not ninivah this is the nationstates general forum. All hope has left these souless souls. (woo redundancy) I say spreading hope is good but hope is wasted on the hopeless.

It may not be Ninivah, but the way you are wording it might as well be. I feel that God asked me to do this, I don't know His purpose, but I do know that there is one. Hope can never be wasted and hopelessness needs hope more than anything.

The difference is that Jonah was wrong, Keyi.

You;ve walked into the belly of the beast. Willingly, no less (says something about wisdom there).

Think of this as the Den of Elemental S(p)in.

And perhaps you are being like Jonah, I am not trying to be harsh, but I felt that God called me to do this, just as Daniel prayed three times a day and for his testimony in prayer he was thrown to the lion's den.

You state there are two ways to get into heaven. Live a Sin-free life, or repent to Jesus.

You state that no-one can do the first, so the second is the only option.

Before Jesus, surely that option was not available?

I wasn't doing a very good job of explaining, but this quote below is correct.

Alright, this is what i was always taught. those of the old testement, if they beleived in the promise of christ there sins were forgiven upon the comming of christ.

'Jesus' was not present the son of God was. Indicated by the statement made by God in genesis where he say "our own image". Christ had yet to do anything towards the forgivingness of our sins in the old testement. It was not until he came to earth as Jesus that he started the process towards our forgiveness. It was basicly him advertising the new religeon required for salvation as he worked towards it (salvation).

To the man from the orthodox, I always figured they were already in heaven.

It may not be Ninivah, but the way you are wording it might as well be. I feel that God asked me to do this, I don't know His purpose, but I do know that there is one. Hope can never be wasted and hopelessness needs hope more than anything.

NO the hopeless are hopeless. no one can save them. They are dead set in their beliefs no wind will sway them no matter how string it blows. And please stop refuring yourself to daniel. It's just embarasing.

Is anything worth that?

Yes. My free will.

Sending me to "hell" because I choose wrong is not "love." It's a terrorist threat.

(Well, it's also nonsense, but just assuming for the moment...)

If God can act on Earth, then there is evidently a way to bypass the "God cannot be near Sin" (Which you explained well, with the embodied in Christians thingy) If that is the case however, and if God does love us all, why are Sinners sent to a place of complete abscence of God. Sinners can be on Earth, where there is God through the Holy Spirit, so surely God is more than capable of having a similar set-up after death, with Sinners.


Faith is believeing without reason. Do you not believe in good because you feel that there is enough reason to believe that God is real? That there is proof enough of God's existence? You surely must then believe in God the same way Demon's do, The same way I believe in Tables, they're there.

NO the hopeless are hopeless. no one can save them. They are dead set in their beliefs no wind will sway them no matter how string it blows. And please stop refuring yourself to daniel. It's just embarasing.

I did not say that I was Daniel. I merely said that I am doing as I feel God has called me. Nothing is impossible in Christ, therefore there is hope for everyone, which does include the hopeless. They may truely believe what they believe and if they get nothing out of this, then this was clearly not directed at them. Perhaps there is only one person who gets anything out of this and that is fine with me, I wish that more would but if only one got something I would be happy. And, Jesus died for any one who would believe, correct me if I am wrong, but he never told us who had hope and who was hopeless.

And perhaps you are being like Jonah, I am not trying to be harsh, but I felt that God called me to do this, just as Daniel prayed three times a day and for his testimony in prayer he was thrown to the lion's den.

I'm not being like Jonah. Like Satan, maybe, since I intend to discourage obnoxious evangelizing, but Jonah... No. I'd have to actually care what the outcome was to be like him.

I am impressed with the answers to my questions, They (As a rule) Seem more than suitable. I feel if people of partial Faith (People sitting on the fence as such) Where to come accross this - and read the whole thing - they would surely be convinced, maybe through the conviction in your words, maybe through your detail, maybe through a resonance that may infact come from God. Even though I don't believe in any religion as of yet created. (At least fully, and that I know of) I do believe there is purpose to what you're doing - If you're right, which is always a possibility -.

You a Baptist Keyi? If so, do you live in Georgia or Alabama?

Also, I learned somewhere along the line that the Jews don't believe in hell. (Correct me if I'm wrong on that.) If so, how can they go to hell if it doesn't exist?

OP:

I got these bridges for sale, one of them goes over a lake, and if you buy it, you get the lake for free.

You interested?

If God can act on Earth, then there is evidently a way to bypass the "God cannot be near Sin" (Which you explained well, with the embodied in Christians thingy) If that is the case however, and if God does love us all, why are Sinners sent to a place of complete abscence of God. Sinners can be on Earth, where there is God through the Holy Spirit, so surely God is more than capable of having a similar set-up after death, with Sinners.


Faith is believeing without reason. Do you not believe in good because you feel that there is enough reason to believe that God is real? That there is proof enough of God's existence? You surely must then believe in God the same way Demon's do, The same way I believe in Tables, they're there.

No one can stay on Earth forever. We all die. Before we are dead we have decided between heaven and hell. That decesion is final. Therefore no one can be saved after death, so the Holy Spirit cannot be Hell (the Holy Spirit enters into your heart after you have accepted Christ).

Yes, I do. The difference between my faith and demon's belief exists. Satanist believe in God, but do not follow Him, just as demons believe in God but do not follow Him. I believe in God and my belief causes me to follow Him, this is faith.

If God can act on Earth, then there is evidently a way to bypass the "God cannot be near Sin" (Which you explained well, with the embodied in Christians thingy) If that is the case however, and if God does love us all, why are Sinners sent to a place of complete abscence of God. Sinners can be on Earth, where there is God through the Holy Spirit, so surely God is more than capable of having a similar set-up after death, with Sinners.


Faith is believeing without reason. Do you not believe in good because you feel that there is enough reason to believe that God is real? That there is proof enough of God's existence? You surely must then believe in God the same way Demon's do, The same way I believe in Tables, they're there.

God can act on earth although i believe he does it indirectly. He is not alergic to sin he just dispises it for it tainted his perfect creation. he loves all he just hates that they sin. God has clearly displayed that he has moslty given up on those unwilling to listen, with hell and the flood. Christ was his last attempt. Now it is up to us to spread his message before christ comes again. Hell was created for Satan and his followers, satan converted it into a place for sinners when he introduced sin.

My belief is not on evidence but by faith. I have faith that there is God. Thus there is evidance that he exists. if i have total unfaith in tables they will, to my mind, not exist. this is how some mental disabilities manifest.

I am impressed with the answers to my questions, They (As a rule) Seem more than suitable. I feel if people of partial Faith (People sitting on the fence as such) Where to come accross this - and read the whole thing - they would surely be convinced, maybe through the conviction in your words, maybe through your detail, maybe through a resonance that may infact come from God. Even though I don't believe in any religion as of yet created. (At least fully, and that I know of) I do believe there is purpose to what you're doing - If you're right, which is always a possibility -.

Thank you. I do hope that some one reads this and it helps, and I hope that it made you question what you believe. If you, or any one, has questions, they can telegram me. Please I would love to answer all of your questions!

OP:

I got these bridges for sale, one of them goes over a lake, and if you buy it, you get the lake for free.

You interested?

Free lake? wow cool.

You a Baptist Keyi? If so, do you live in Georgia or Alabama?

No, I am not a Bapist. I am a Calvanist, you know TULIP. I do not live in Georgia or Alabama, I have never even been to either of those states.

OP:

I got these bridges for sale, one of them goes over a lake, and if you buy it, you get the lake for free.

You interested?

so funny. . .

Before we are dead we have decided between heaven and hell. That decesion is final.


What of those who die before such a decision could be made (the very young, or those who simply expire in ignorance without having been told, etc).

Oops, too bad?


Therefore no one can be saved after death


So, god condemns the innocent (as described above) and thus is cannot be all-good, or there is something that even god could not do even if it wanted to, so it cannot be omnipotent.

What of those who die before such a decision could be made (the very young, or those who simply expire in ignorance without having been told, etc).

Oops, too bad?



So, god condemns the innocent (as described above) and thus is cannot be all-good, or there is something that even god could not do even if it wanted to, so it cannot be omnipotent.


Hey hey, some religions believe in different tiers of Hell.

Those you mentioned go to a existence of nothingness, as opposed to one of torment.

You a Baptist Keyi? If so, do you live in Georgia or Alabama?

Also, I learned somewhere along the line that the Jews don't believe in hell. (Correct me if I'm wrong on that.) If so, how can they go to hell if it doesn't exist?

Wherever you heard that you heard wrong. they beleive in hell. why else would they follow the comandments.

although i like how lewis black states that the jews made up the comandments because people came back from the dessert in love with cammels. Very funny stuff.

Those you mentioned go to a existence of nothingness, as opposed to one of torment.

I spell it "potato," myself; punishment of the innocent is punishment of the innocent. I cannot see anything "good" in such blatant injustice.

What of those who die before such a decision could be made (the very young, or those who simply expire in ignorance without having been told, etc).

Oops, too bad?



So, god condemns the innocent (as described above) and thus is cannot be all-good, or there is something that even god could not do even if it wanted to, so it cannot be omnipotent.

I don't want to touch this one. I hope keyi can explain it. i mean 15 yearolds aren't the smartest people in the world.

I spell it "potato," myself; punishment of the innocent is punishment of the innocent. I cannot see anything "good" in such blatant injustice.

I still don't agree in Hell or Heaven. But if you want to learn, treat what the person says as hypothetical, if you want to change them, treat what they say as lies, if you want to be changed, forget what you have learned.

Wherever you heard that you heard wrong. they beleive in hell. why else would they follow the comandments.

What does one have to do with the other? You are aware that there are other reasons for doing the right thing than the threat of eternal torment?

That aside, Judaism does have a notion of divine reward and punishment after death (and in life), but it is fairly vague.

I still don't agree in Hell or Heaven. But if you want to learn, treat what the person says as hypothetical, if you want to change them, treat what they say as lies, if you want to be changed, forget what you have learned.

Siggied

These two notions are not consistent. According to Calvinism, we are totally depraved; the only way we can "decide" to go to Heaven is if God decides to make us decide that.


Excellent point; essentially, god is drawing straws with my eternal soul. Again, where is the "goodness" in such depraved disregard for human worth or value? Since my own personal choice is meaningless, and I'm not a Calvinist anyway, why should i care about any of this?

What of those who die before such a decision could be made (the very young, or those who simply expire in ignorance without having been told, etc).

Oops, too bad?



So, god condemns the innocent (as described above) and thus is cannot be all-good, or there is something that even god could not do even if it wanted to, so it cannot be omnipotent.

I'll do my best to answer. If a child dies, will it go to heaven? I don't know the answer for sure, but I am inclined to think that it will, because it was not old enough to make a conscience decesion (of course that age is different for every one). I really can't say about those who never heard, which there are many more who have heard than who haven't, my guess would be that they did know. Now it may sound odd, but hear me out. If they had at any point heard and just put it off, then they made a choice still and went to hell. God is capable of miraculalously revealing himself to those who haven't heard, but I really don't know.

What does one have to do with the other? You are aware that there are other reasons for doing the right thing than the threat of eternal torment?

That aside, Judaism does have a notion of divine reward and punishment after death (and in life), but it is fairly vague.

Yes but all of them, i mean the jews tried. how many non-god motivated people believe there is a god. (first comandment.)

I'll do my best to answer. If a child dies, will it go to heaven? I don't know the answer for sure, but I am inclined to think that it will, because it was not old enough to make a conscience decesion (of course that age is different for every one).

But it was predestined to die then, before being moved by God's grace; thus, the child is not one of the elect, and is thus destined for Hell.

If you don't believe that either God or the Devil exist, and that life is a wispy, insignificant little distraction from an eternity of utter nothingness, or if you are unsure of the existence of God, what of that?

Seriously, though, if there is a God, I doubt he will refuse your entrance to Heaven if you don't crusade for him or attend church every Sunday (or Saturday, or Friday, or day) or espouse his virtues to all others. If God exists, he will admit into Heaven those that have led good, virtuous lives and who have been kind to their fellow men, and he will condemn to Hell those that have been cruel and intolerant, those that have led lives of true sin. The name of the religion isn't the thing; it's in the spirituality that religion brings to people, the fact that it shows them the value of being kind to your fellow man. Those that proselytize, or, worse, kill those that don't believe as they do (like radical Islamists), are the monsters of the world. They will be the ones condemned to Hell (if such a place exists).

Excellent point; essentially, god is drawing straws with my eternal soul. Again, where is the "goodness" in such depraved disregard for human worth or value? Since my own personal choice is meaningless, and I'm not a Calvinist anyway, why should i care about any of this?

Why should you, why should God care about you. but he does, he sent his only son to die for us. would you send your son to die for someone else (assuming you have one) if they mocked and hated you.

Yes but all of them, i mean the jews tried. how many non-god motivated people believe there is a god. (first comandment.)

Actually, "give fruit and multiply" is the first commandment.

Plenty of people who believe in God are passionately faithful and committed to good works for reasons that have nothing to do with fear of Hell.

Ah, it appears that the NSG Christians come in mass when they have a leader to rally them.

I see some comments about Predestination and Total Depravity, let me explain. Total Depravity means that we are completely seperate from God by our sins, we are. Predestination is the idea that we are only saved if we were chosen to be saved, but it makes perfect sense if you look at this way. God is outside of time, so He already knows who amoung will accept Christ and who won't. As humans, we cannot change His plan, so because of this only those who will be saved will be saved and God already knows. But we still must spread the Word because we don't know and God could use us to bring some one to Christ who will come to Christ. Free will still exists, but it is finite and inside of time. God is infinte and outside of time, so he already knows the choices we make with our free will.

Why should you, why should God care about you.

Because people are intrinsically deserving of moral consideration.

but he does, he sent his only son to die for us.

Some of us.

would you send your son to die for someone else (assuming you have one) if they mocked and hated you.

I wouldn't. I also do not claim to be omnibenevolent. But I would never, ever send anyone - even someone like Hitler or Stalin - to eternal torment.

true, but why should the jews they had it made. they had just made a golden cow statue. they were worshiping it fine. then moses came, a few got bitten by snakes and mosses said they would go to a horible place if they didn't follow these comandments. And no i beleive the first comandment asks for a beleif in one god.

But it was predestined to die then, before being moved by God's grace; thus, the child is not one of the elect, and is thus destined for Hell.

No, not if the child could not make that decesions.

Please, do not assume that I am completely Calvanistic, I am not. I do agree with TULIP, but my theology goes beyond that and adds to it.

If a child dies, will it go to heaven? I don't know the answer for sure, but I am inclined to think that it will, because it was not old enough to make a conscience decesion (of course that age is different for every one).


Impossible. Human beings are inherently sinful and seperated from god by their very nature, are they not? Thus, the stillborn child is automatically condemned for simply being human. Truly a horiffic crime, if ever I've heard one. Nevermind the occasional aborted fetus, an actual victim of aggression (yes, I truly believe that) condemned forever by a spiteful, hateful, tyranical, and ultimately immature and childish "god" out of no fault of its own.

I cannot and will not accept that.


I really can't say about those who never heard, which there are many more who have heard than who haven't, my guess would be that they did know.


This being the most convienient assumption, of course.


God is capable of miraculalously revealing himself...


Then why not do so? Rip a hole in space-time and give a shout out in person to all of humanity. Remove all doubt once and for all, and quit playing childish mindgames about "faith" and whatever else. What is it hiding from? What is it afraid of?

Siggied

I get the feeling I should take that as a compliment, Wether or not it was intended as one (I'm sure it was :)) I will take it as such.

On a side note:
Christians have made me think about one thing in particular, hte correlation between Dinosaurs and Dragons. I feel I have definately learned at least that from people, And wether or note I believe a certain religion is correct, if it helps people to live a productive and pleasant life, I can see no way that it could be a bad thing, If there is a God, all the religions that help people I feel would be looked kindly upon.

Because people are intrinsically deserving of moral consideration.



Some of us.



I wouldn't. I also do not claim to be omnibenevolent. But I would never, ever send anyone - even someone like Hitler or Stalin - to eternal torment.

Ha, so much better then god are we. put your self in his shoes.

I see some comments about Predestination and Total Depravity, let me explain. Total Depravity means that we are completely seperate from God by our sins, we are. Predestination is the idea that we are only saved if we were chosen to be saved, but it makes perfect sense if you look at this way. God is outside of time, so He already knows who amoung will accept Christ and who won't. As humans, we cannot change His plan, so because of this only those who will be saved will be saved and God already knows. But we still must spread the Word because we don't know and God could use us to bring some one to Christ who will come to Christ. Free will still exists, but it is finite and inside of time. God is infinte and outside of time, so he already knows the choices we make with our free will.

Why do you want to spread the word of God? I think it's rude. People should believe what they choose to believe and shouldn't have crazy people imposing their views on them.

I think it's EVEN started wars at some time or another! :eek:

If you don't believe that either God or the Devil exist, and that life is a wispy, insignificant little distraction from an eternity of utter nothingness, or if you are unsure of the existence of God, what of that?

Seriously, though, if there is a God, I doubt he will refuse your entrance to Heaven if you don't crusade for him or attend church every Sunday (or Saturday, or Friday, or day) or espouse his virtues to all others. If God exists, he will admit into Heaven those that have led good, virtuous lives and who have been kind to their fellow men, and he will condemn to Hell those that have been cruel and intolerant, those that have led lives of true sin. The name of the religion isn't the thing; it's in the spirituality that religion brings to people, the fact that it shows them the value of being kind to your fellow man. Those that proselytize, or, worse, kill those that don't believe as they do (like radical Islamists), are the monsters of the world. They will be the ones condemned to Hell (if such a place exists).


We don't get into heaven by our deeds, but by our faith. Faith doesn't mean that you have to be perfect or go to church every Sunday, simply that you have a personal realationship with Jesus.

Please, do not assume that I am completely Calvanistic, I am not. I do agree with TULIP, but my theology goes beyond that and adds to it.


http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/artfuldodger.htm ;)

I see some comments about Predestination and Total Depravity, let me explain. Total Depravity means that we are completely seperate from God by our sins, we are. Predestination is the idea that we are only saved if we were chosen to be saved, but it makes perfect sense if you look at this way. God is outside of time, so He already knows who amoung will accept Christ and who won't. As humans, we cannot change His plan, so because of this only those who will be saved will be saved and God already knows. But we still must spread the Word because we don't know and God could use us to bring some one to Christ who will come to Christ. Free will still exists, but it is finite and inside of time. God is infinte and outside of time, so he already knows the choices we make with our free will.

According to TULIP God's election is unconditional; it has nothing to do with our moral merit or the choices we would make without His grace. Some people are arbitrarily tortured for eternity, others are arbitrarily sent to Heaven. It depends entirely on whether God decides to save us or not; we have no power to change it or to pursue good of our own accord.

I get the feeling I should take that as a compliment, Wether or not it was intended as one (I'm sure it was :)) I will take it as such.

On a side note:
Christians have made me think about one thing in particular, hte correlation between Dinosaurs and Dragons. I feel I have definately learned at least that from people, And wether or note I believe a certain religion is correct, if it helps people to live a productive and pleasant life, I can see no way that it could be a bad thing, If there is a God, all the religions that help people I feel would be looked kindly upon.

Yes it was a compliment. And most of your notations seem correct.

Then why not do so? Rip a hole in space-time and give a shout out in person to all of humanity. Remove all doubt once and for all, and quit playing childish mindgames about "faith" and whatever else. What is it hiding from? What is it afraid of?

Because that is not part of his plan. Faith does not hide. Faith fears no man. God does not act in the way you are referring to. It is not His nature. But I do believe that before everyone dies they have heard about Christ and made a decesion. Whether God miraclously revealed it or a Christian shared the Word.

We don't get into heaven by our deeds, but by our faith. Faith doesn't mean that you have to be perfect or go to church every Sunday, simply that you have a personal realationship with Jesus.

Personal relationship? Well sometimes we play Monopoly with Gandi and Buddha, then watch the old Saturday Night Live episodes with John Belushi, does that count?

Ha, so much better then god are we.

Yes, I am. I would never commit the horrific atrocities you claim God commits with regularity, because, while I am not perfect, I will never approach that kind of evil.

put your self in his shoes.

And what does that change?

would you send your son to die for someone else (assuming you have one) if they mocked and hated you.

You should try to answer the question in my post, rather than try to distract me with an emotionally manipulative red herring. ;)

http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/artfuldodger.htm ;)

he dodge nothing, he stated his belief. Nothing that related to that arbitrary lump of worthlessness

Why do you want to spread the word of God? I think it's rude. People should believe what they choose to believe and shouldn't have crazy people imposing their views on them.

I think it's EVEN started wars at some time or another! :eek:

We spread the Word because most of us truely care about a person's soul.

According to TULIP God's election is unconditional; it has nothing to do with our moral merit or the choices we would make without His grace. Some people are arbitrarily tortured for eternity, others are arbitrarily sent to Heaven. It depends entirely on whether God decides to save us or not; we have no power to change it or to pursue good of our own accord.

No, not all, by my theology at least. You see God's election is unconditional, meaning if you are chosen you are chosen and God will use you. You still have free will, but God already knows your choice.

Personal relationship? Well sometimes we play Monopoly with Gandi and Buddha, then watch the old Saturday Night Live episodes with John Belushi, does that count?

It means growing as a Christian. Praying to God and trying to stay close. But if your faith is real, then you desire for this personal realtionship.

he dodge nothing, he stated his belief. Nothing that related to that arbitrary lump of worthlessness

Except for the apparent desire to claim a general ideology, but then pick and choose among details as convienient for not addressing problems raised therein.

Except for the apparent desire to claim a general ideology, but then pick and choose among details as convienient for not addressing problems raised therein.

Look, I am simply saying what I believe. I agree with TULIP, so I am a Calvenist. My explanation goes deeper and my theology is slightly different. I agree with different parts of different theology. You do not hear me going back on what I say. Merely point what you see as contradicting and I would be more than willing to explain how I hold both views.

Because that is not part of his plan. ...God does not act in the way you are referring to.


Of course not. Actually doing so would render the whole point of religion moot. Thus all the mystery and mindgames; to keep the flock on its toes if you will. ;)


It is not His nature.


Of course, I would have thought that the omnipotent creator of all would be able to change or overcome his own nature/instinct/etc.

I've got a question I doubt anyone has contemplated: this all happens on Earth, right? The rest of the universe remains completely unaffected.

So, let's postulate--for the moment--that the Christian Armegeddon prophecies are true. We can therefore suppose that if we were not present upon Earth at the time--say we were in a ship orbiting the moon instead, for instance--we would be unaffected, and could potentially return to Earth once all the bad junk took place, correct?

God told me to drink beer ...I still had a headache when I woke up.

No, not all, by my theology at least.

Who decides what the truth is, you or god? All I hear in the above statement is a subjectivist declaration about how I can make up my own rules on the fly in order to convieniently sweep inconsistancy and error under the rug.

Predestination is the idea that we are only saved if we were chosen to be saved, but it makes perfect sense if you look at this way. God is outside of time, so He already knows who amoung will accept Christ and who won't. As humans, we cannot change His plan, so because of this only those who will be saved will be saved and God already knows. But we still must spread the Word because we don't know and God could use us to bring some one to Christ who will come to Christ. Free will still exists, but it is finite and inside of time. God is infinte and outside of time, so he already knows the choices we make with our free will.

What you describe isn't "predestination," but rather prescience. Confusing the two causes me to be reminded of a parable about having one's cake and eating it too.

We spread the Word because most of us truely care about a person's soul.

So if 33% of the world is Christian, then the other 66% is going to hell? :rolleyes:

Now Keyi, have you thought that maybe the Bible is wrong, and another religion is right? Maybe all the religions are different paths to the afterlife (assuming there is one).

And if only 33% of the world is Christian then I'd say you aren't doing a bangup job on converting people. :D

Of course not. Actually doing so would render the whole point of religion moot. Thus all the mystery and mindgames; to keep the flock on its toes if you will. ;)



Of course, I would have thought that the omnipotent creator of all would be able to change or overcome his own nature/instinct/etc.

God chose to be the same today, the same tomorrow, and is the same as yesterday.

Who decides what the truth is, you or god? All I hear in the above statement is a subjectivist declaration about how I can make up my own rules on the fly in order to convieniently sweep inconsistancy and error under the rug.

We cannot understand God. My theology is how I understand and what I understand of Him.

What you describe isn't "predestination," but rather prescience. Confusing the two causes me to be reminded of a parable about having one's cake and eating it too.

Actually it is predestination. God created His plan, and therefore chose who would be saved, it is a rather complicated thing that I do not wish to discuss right now, but telegram me and I would be more than happy to.

So if 33% of the world is Christian, then the other 66% is going to hell? :rolleyes:

Now Keyi, have you thought that maybe the Bible is wrong, and another religion is right? Maybe all the religions are different paths to the afterlife (assuming there is one).

And if only 33% of the world is Christian then I'd say you aren't doing a bangup job on converting people. :D

The Bible is correct. I have questioned my faith, but never doubted for I have complete faith in God. The Bible is His Word and therefore infalible.

Four posts in a row? You're on a roll.

I read your Public profile...

Good luck with life.

I will try to answer all questions after this post tomorrow. Telegram is you want it garunteered I don't miss yours.

We cannot understand God.

And yet you seem to be able to make conclusive statements about its nature, and who is going to "hell" and who is going to "heaven," etc. Plus, I would be seriously skeptical about any belief system that requires me to ignore the man behind the curtain, to hide behind ignorance, in order to maintain internal consistancy.


My theology is how I understand and what I understand of Him.


But you just said that we cannot so understand. :confused:

Four posts in a row? You're on a roll.

I read your Public profile...

Good luck with life.

Gee thanks.

And yet you seem to be able to make conclusive statements about its nature, and who is going to "hell" and who is going to "heaven," etc. Plus, I would be seriously skeptical about any belief system that requires me to ignore the man behind the curtain, to hide behind ignorance, in order to maintain internal consistancy.



But you just said that we cannot so understand. :confused:

I understand only parts of God and His nature, only what He has revealed to me.

Actually it is predestination. God created His plan, and therefore chose who would be saved,

Then my personal choice means nothing, even though you have been saying that my salvation is based on whether I choose to follow god...pick a line and stick with it please. :)

I understand only parts of God and His nature, only what He has revealed to me.

Of course. One suddenly has the ability to understand what cannot be understood when it is convienient.

Right then...

Is there a third-party in these disputes? Because... Basically I'm against both sides. Can I vote for the Greens or something?

And dude... Every religion has told us that these must be the last days, but so far they have yet to be right. You'll forgive me if I don't take you seriously in the least.

2012 is coming:cool:

2012 is coming:cool:

Another meaningless date assigned by dominionists with too much time on their hands.

On the battlefield, it can be difficult to remember what sin means.
Just remember, it's opposite/hypotenuse :D

I achieved my trig test! Whoop!

Another meaningless date assigned by dominionists with too much time on their hands.

Exactly.

2012 isn't the doomsday, it's when the galaxy/solar system/whatever they were measuring (I'll look it up later) has been through a full cycle since they started counting. That's why calenders end there. It starts again.


Or maybe we all die!!!! Oh noes.

2012 isn't the doomsday, it's when the galaxy/solar system/whatever they were measuring (I'll look it up later) has been through a full cycle since they started counting. That's why calenders end there. It starts again.


Or maybe we all die!!!! Oh noes.

If we all die, can I have everyone's stuff?

If we all die, can I have everyone's stuff?

You can have most of my stuff, but the cheese-grater is mine. No-one is to touch that.

(I love how Off-Topic things get without the religious people to keep it serious)

The Bible is correct. I have questioned my faith, but never doubted for I have complete faith in God. The Bible is His Word and therefore infalible.

Please, I'm reaching out to you personally right now. Listen to me please. There is so much more to the world than this. There are so many different views about everything. Anything you can imagine. This isn't just a post on a random internet forum, it is a call to you personally.

Love and kindness are not limited to Christianity. You don't have to bind yourself to a single book, translated and retranslated, added to, and taken from, with stories taken from non-religious oral folk tales and various early religions. The people who wrote the Bible were trying to explain a world they didn't understand, and all they had to work from were those and their own guesswork. You can expand your spirituality and grow. There is a world without fear of damnation, where God is love, and not a slavedriver. He may not exist at all. I know your eyes are closed, your hands are over your ears, and you're shouting "lalalalala", but you don't have to be like this.

If there is a God, don't you think He would behave in a manner that the Bible doesn't say? Did the things it says really have to have happened? Don't you think He would maybe have convinced the citizens of Sodom what they were doing was wrong instead of murdering them and comdemning them to Hell? Wouldn't He have treated Job, His devout worshipper, with kindness and give him a good life? Wouldn't He have shown Himself to the Egyptians and say that having the Jews as slaves wasn't very nice? Wouldn't He not tell His followers to murder sinners?

There are a lot of worthwhile things you can do, and causes to champion, but this is not it. There is so much more out there for you if you just try to see. What you're doing is not helping people find the way to happiness and salvation. You're still lost yourself. You don't have to be Christian to be a good person, and you don't have to be Christian to think Jesus was a great man.

Did you know Jesus is a major figure in Islam? I learned this here on the forums. He was saved by God before He was killed. Isn't that a loving God? Why not accept both as equally valid? Why must one old book written by someone who may or may not have actually known Jesus, be better than some other old book written by a guy who may or may not have known Jesus? Is it not the same?

I am not a test of your faith. If anything, opening your mind to other things will grow your faith. God gave us a brain, so we should use it to question our existence, question what we are taught, and question even the things you think might be from Him to begin with. I'm not asking you not to be Christian, because, even though I am not Christian, I think it is wonderful if someone actually follows Jesus's teachings and trys to understand the Bible for what it is. I'm asking you to be an accepting, loving, and open-minded Christian. If God is love, He will love you even more for it.

:)