NationStates Jolt Archive

I have, as I'm sure everyone here has, heard all the horrible things the Church of Scientology has done and is doing to people. However, people who I have met or talked to online claiming to be Scientologists claim that all those things are lies, and that Scientologists do not believe in Xenu.

I feel like I'm prejudiced against these people, and should not be if these things are untrue. What does everyone else think about this? Should I just feel sorry that they are being duped? Should I take the parts of the religion they deny as false? Should I just see it like I see other corrupt religious organizations? Like, the Catholic Church has done some really bad things, but I don't hate Catholics...

It shouldn't even be referred to as a "Church" as it is nothing but ludicruous. Almost all religions today have deep philosphical points, much written theology about the very essence of it, and are in some cases ancient.

I believe Scientology should just be given the same marker as the mafia, triads and yakuza, illegal organization.

Here are some links to the more informative threads we've had on Scientology in the past months, you might want to read through them - interesting stuff.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=458615&highlight=scientology
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=488382&highlight=scientology
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=489819&highlight=scientology
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=493418&highlight=scientology

And, as always, here's the single most important link on the topic, the resource for all things
Scientology: www.xenu.net (www.xenu.net)

Here are some links to the more informative threads we've had on Scientology in the past months, you might want to read through them - interesting stuff.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=458615&highlight=scientology
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=488382&highlight=scientology
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=489819&highlight=scientology
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=493418&highlight=scientology

And, as always, here's the single most important link on the topic, the resource for all things
Scientology: www.xenu.net (www.xenu.net)

Ooo, thank you. :D

Xenu.net would beg to differ. Besides, most Scientologists don't even learn about Xenu until they reach OT3; given that it costs you something like $50,000 to get there, I wouldn't be surprised if the Scientologists you talk to know nothing of the "wall of fire" at that level.

Scientology begins out seemingly normal and grows progressively weirder as you get sucked further and further in to the cult.

Scientology is like a religion two college students made up for a prank, and then the prank was hijacked by the Mafia.
"I'm bored. What shall we do?"
"... hey, let's start a fake religion!"
"A fake religion? ... hey, that might actually be fun! Let's make it really stupid. Give it aliens!"
"Aliens! And nuclear bombs! And volcanoes!"
"Ooh, ooh, and an evil alien overlord guy!"
"This is going to be hilarious. Let's add in ghost-spirit things that possess people!"
"We can say that we'll reveal this knowledge for money to advance through the religion!"
"LOL! Um, wait... might'nt that be illegal?"
"Nah, we don't intend for anyone to believe in this crap anyway"
You can't take a religion seriously that bans psychiatry. Hmm, what would they have to gain from having more irrational and crazy people around?...

Xenu.net would beg to differ. Besides, most Scientologists don't even learn about Xenu until they reach OT3; given that it costs you something like $50,000 to get there, I wouldn't be surprised if the Scientologists you talk to know nothing of the "wall of fire" at that level.

Scientology begins out seemingly normal and grows progressively weirder as you get sucked further and further in to the cult.

So, I should just warn them about these things? Wouldn't they look this stuff up before spending money?

So, I should just warn them about these things? Wouldn't they look this stuff up before spending money?

Well, the problem is that many people get in to Scientology without knowing what it really contains; it masquerades as a complement rather than a replacement for your current beliefs, but gradually takes over as you climb higher.

I'd recommend warning them, but if they're dead-set on following it you don't have much power to stop them. The best thing to do is to mention the money involved; generally, if people knew the price tag for this stuff up front they'd be less likely to get involved. The other, more disturbing aspects of the cult should definitely be mentioned too.

I would also tell them that Scientology is based off of a badly written Sci-Fi book. I do mean badly

I have, as I'm sure everyone here has, heard all the horrible things the Church of Scientology has done and is doing to people. However, people who I have met or talked to online claiming to be Scientologists claim that all those things are lies, and that Scientologists do not believe in Xenu.

I feel like I'm prejudiced against these people, and should not be if these things are untrue. What does everyone else think about this? Should I just feel sorry that they are being duped? Should I take the parts of the religion they deny as false? Should I just see it like I see other corrupt religious organizations? Like, the Catholic Church has done some really bad things, but I don't hate Catholics...if you truely want to seek the truth... join them and see for yourself.

if you truely want to seek the truth... join them and see for yourself.

Yea we're trying to prevent people from joining this cult.... Trust me xenu.net tells you the truth. It's a website owned and maintained by a former Scientologist.

Yea we're trying to prevent people from joining this cult.... Trust me xenu.net tells you the truth. It's a website owned and maintained by a former Scientologist.

Wait! You are not going to tell me that Tom isn't an expert in pharmacology!?!?!?! :eek:

Wait! You are not going to tell me that Tom isn't an expert in pharmacology!?!?!?! :eek:

Would you really trust a guy that snapped on Oprah?

Xenu.net would beg to differ. Besides, most Scientologists don't even learn about Xenu until they reach OT3; given that it costs you something like $50,000 to get there, I wouldn't be surprised if the Scientologists you talk to know nothing of the "wall of fire" at that level.

Scientology begins out seemingly normal and grows progressively weirder as you get sucked further and further in to the cult.

Really though--is there anything that's more weird about Xenu than there is about the idea of a Triune god who's father, son and spirit all in one? Or about a red dude with a horned tail and a pitchfork who lives in the middle of the earth and tortures people for all eternity for not following an arbitrary code of conduct? Looked at dispassionately, I don't think there's a hell of a lot of difference between them, as far as the stories are concerned. They're both equally ludicrous to me. It's just that we're used to one of them.

As far as I'm concerned, any group that's been able to successfully pull off the largest infiltration of the US government to date (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_snow_white) is just as big a threat as youre conventional terrorists.

Really though--is there anything that's more weird about Xenu than there is about the idea of a Triune god who's father, son and spirit all in one? Or about a red dude with a horned tail and a pitchfork who lives in the middle of the earth and tortures people for all eternity for not following an arbitrary code of conduct? Looked at dispassionately, I don't think there's a hell of a lot of difference between them, as far as the stories are concerned. They're both equally ludicrous to me. It's just that we're used to one of them.

Now c'mon, be fair. Christianity may be just as silly as Scientology, but at least it's got style.

Now c'mon, be fair. Christianity may be just as silly as Scientology, but at least it's got style.

Maybe. ;)

Seriously, though, what it's got is age, and with age comes undeserved gravitas. The myths are just as silly, rooted in just as much hokum and mysticism as Scientology's are--it's just that anyone who read sci-fi in the 70s and 80s saw this religion in the formative stages.

Maybe. ;)

Seriously, though, what it's got is age, and with age comes undeserved gravitas. The myths are just as silly, rooted in just as much hokum and mysticism as Scientology's are--it's just that anyone who read sci-fi in the 70s and 80s saw this religion in the formative stages.

Well, at the very least, Christianity doesn't charge you for admission.

Well, at the very least, Christianity doesn't charge you for admission.

I've never been in a church where someone didn't have his hand out, and usually more than once per service.

I've never been in a church where someone didn't have his hand out, and usually more than once per service.

Everything needs money to work, even churches.

The way I see it, both Christianity and scientology(doesn't deserve capitalization) are like bums. They both want money. The difference is:
Christianity is the panhandler. It wants your money but would only go as far as asking for it and maybe getting in your way. Not much bloodshed there.

scientology is like a mugger bum. It doesn't just demand money, it places a gun to your head. It even goes so far as to try to turn your friends and families against you.

Which would you rather walk into? Annoying guy with cardboard sign or scary guy with gun that could turn your best friends into your mortal enemies?

Another thing that makes Scientology different and much more scary than Christianity is that when you leave Christianity you can just walk out of the door and only need to worry about people from the congregation calling you up inviting you back. When you leave Scientology, you can worry about all the stuff you talked about in your auditing sessions coming back to haunt you, having people call your boss trying to get you fired, being blackmailed - and in the worst case being invited to the hotel they run in Florida and being killed as apparently has happened to a few people.

Another thing that makes Scientology different and much more scary than Christianity is that when you leave Christianity you can just walk out of the door and only need to worry about people from the congregation calling you up inviting you back. When you leave Scientology, you can worry about all the stuff you talked about in your auditing sessions coming back to haunt you, having people call your boss trying to get you fired, being blackmailed - and in the worst case being invited to the hotel they run in Florida and being killed as apparently has happened to a few people.

:eek: :mad: How could I forget? :headbang: Stupid :headbang: Stupid :headbang: Stupid. Before you know it, my iq will drop to fatal levels. I think my math iq thing dropped below 140. :(

I've never been in a church where someone didn't have his hand out, and usually more than once per service.

Every church i have went to has always said something along the line of "you don't have to give, its between you and God if you want to or not, no one will think differently of you if you don't" But maybe thats just around here?

Really though--is there anything that's more weird about Xenu than there is about the idea of a Triune god who's father, son and spirit all in one? Or about a red dude with a horned tail and a pitchfork who lives in the middle of the earth and tortures people for all eternity for not following an arbitrary code of conduct? Looked at dispassionately, I don't think there's a hell of a lot of difference between them, as far as the stories are concerned. They're both equally ludicrous to me. It's just that we're used to one of them.


Thats no where in the bible, ya know, red guy with pitchfork...

Really though--is there anything that's more weird about Xenu than there is about the idea of a Triune god who's father, son and spirit all in one? Or about a red dude with a horned tail and a pitchfork who lives in the middle of the earth and tortures people for all eternity for not following an arbitrary code of conduct? Looked at dispassionately, I don't think there's a hell of a lot of difference between them, as far as the stories are concerned. They're both equally ludicrous to me. It's just that we're used to one of them.
The difference is ultimately in mythological value. There are ideas in the story of Christianity beyond the immediate factual; there does not need to be an actual concrete entity that tries to control our thoughts in order for us to occasionally look on things "as if" that were the case and to react to these thoughts accordingly. Similarly, God (while having been twisted out of much of its value by the fundamentalists) as the notion of the universal consciousness has some merit as well. Myths like this can make you think about alternative ways of looking at things, and in Christianity, these are quite simple examples but also quite powerful ones.

Scientology has no such mythological value. The only thing you can do once you start thinking of distress in terms of Thetans is to get involved in auditing; there is no flexibility for thought or interpretation and no respect for the individual's own strength of character.