NationStates Jolt Archive

Poll explains it. What do you think happens?

Absolutely nothing. You just cease to exist and that's it.

Poll explains it. What do you think happens?

Decomposition.

"we go to St. Louis and play in an all-girl jazz band"

Actually, I have no clue. I can only guess. I'd suspect the same is true of all of you.

You go poof...you just die...no afterlife, reincarnation...nothing.

I'll be dead by the time I find out, so why bother now? ;)

"we go to St. Louis and play in an all-girl jazz band"

If I'm being sent to St. Louis to play music, I'm playing the Blues. Instead of being a girl, I'll be a cool old black guy.

If I'm being sent to St. Louis to play music, I'm playing the Blues. Instead of being a girl, I'll be a cool old black guy.

it was a Calvin and Hobbes reference, albiet missquoted :p

You go poof...you just die...no afterlife, reincarnation...nothing.

Just playing the curious no-clue-person, how did you settle upon this idea? There's no more proof of this than there is of any other notion.

it was a Calvin and Hobbes reference, albiet missquoted :p

It sounded familiar, I wasn't sure where from though.

:D

Poll explains it. What do you think happens?

The functions and processes that contain certain enzymes used by the body's cells to extract energy from nutrients fail, causing said enzymes to be released freely into the body tissues. This, in turn, causes the breakdown of the body tissues; in effect they digest themselves. Since the immune system is no longer functioning, all the microorganisms normally present in the body, but otherwise contained and controlled, are released and begin reproducing and consuming freely. This also contribues to the breaking down of body tissues. Add on top of that consumption by other animal life. Basically over time the body is broken down into its more basic chemical components (solid, liquid, and gas) and is returned to the ecosystem in general.

The book Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers by Mary Roach goes into further detail, especially where the author describes her visit to a body farm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_Farm).

...

If you mean supernatural occurances, then I'm personally still waiting for falsifiable, reproducible, peer-reviewed data that demonstrates...anything.

Just playing the curious no-clue-person, how did you settle upon this idea? There's no more proof of this than there is of any other notion.

I don't know about for him, but for me I usually subscribe to this idea, especially when feeling pessimistic. I think this because as we die, we lose our thought and sense functions in our brain. We will be deaf without ears, blind without eyes, numb without nerves, and thoughtless without brains, and we won't have a problem with it because of those same reasons. I usually think the only hope of seeing life again is the hope that the universe/universes are infinite and/or repeating, so that this conciousness I currently call myself can live again.

Someimes I have different beliefs though.

The functions and processes that contain certain enzymes used by the body's cells to extract energy from nutrients fail, causing said enzymes to be released freely into the body tissues. This, in turn, causes the breakdown of the body tissues; in effect they digest themselves. Since the immune system is no longer functioning, all the microorganisms normally present in the body, but otherwise contained and controlled, are released and begin reproducing and consuming freely. This also contribues to the breaking down of body tissues. Add on top of that consumption by other animal life. Basically over time the body is broken down into its more basic chemical components (solid, liquid, and gas) and is returned to the ecosystem in general.

The book Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers by Mary Roach goes into further detail, especially where the author describes her visit to a body farm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_Farm).

...

If you mean supernatural occurances, then I'm personally still waiting for falsifiable, reproducible, peer-reviewed data that demonstrates...anything.


You'll die by then, and guessing seems like more fun than waiting.

I don't know about for him, but for me I usually subscribe to this idea, especially when feeling pessimistic. I think this because as we die, we lose our thought and sense functions in our brain. We will be deaf without ears, blind without eyes, numb without nerves, and thoughtless without brains, and we won't have a problem with it because of those same reasons. I usually think the only hope of seeing life again is the hope that the universe/universes are infinite and/or repeating, so that this conciousness I currently call myself can live again.

Someimes I have different beliefs though.

:-) Sounds like good reasoning. Well, if anyone DOES know for sure, don't tell me, I want to be surprised.

You'll die by then, and guessing seems like more fun than waiting.

Then I die. I'd rather acknowledge my ignorance, than be ignorant and pretend otherwise. Saying "I know" when in fact I do not is to live a lie.

...

If you mean supernatural occurances, then I'm personally still waiting for falsifiable, reproducible, peer-reviewed data that demonstrates...anything.

It's called the bible. ;)

Then I die. I'd rather acknowledge my ignorance, than be ignorant and pretend otherwise. Saying "I know" when in fact I do not is to live a lie.

Or perhaps it's stronger? Like faith?

Do you believe in evolution?

Do you believe in the big bang?

Do you believe that theres life on other worlds?

Do you believe that the earth is not the center of the universe?

Answer yes or no to any of these, then you live by faith. Ignorance can be mistaken for faith, yet faith is stronger, faith is conviction in knowing you are right, it is a code you will live by, mature by and nurture the rest of your days.

Everybody is religious, they just don't know it :)

I don't know. Nobody does. Personally, I think we go to a sort of spirit world that mirrors this one, except everybody is just a soul. But that's just my opinion. It's possible that nothing happens when we die. It's also possible that one of the countless other beliefs that exist about the afterlife is correct, and it is equally possible that something nobody has thought of happens. We won't know until we die, and if there isn't an afterlife, we'll never know.

So, since there's little chance of there ever being a "right answer," we just have to wait, and in the meantime, live.

Then I die. I'd rather acknowledge my ignorance, than be ignorant and pretend otherwise. Saying "I know" when in fact I do not is to live a lie.

But we tell ourselves lies all the time in order to live rather than just survive. Is it possible (taking a early-Nietzschean view for a second) that with no possibility of an afterlife, the end result (nothingness) negates any reason to continue living? If the end result of 80 years of work and play dissolves with the vanishing electrical potential of your brain, then to the self there could be no benefit to living any longer than you have lived now.

Then I die. I'd rather acknowledge my ignorance, than be ignorant and pretend otherwise. Saying "I know" when in fact I do not is to live a lie.

True, but speculation does not mean you're following a lie. Living a life without searching for any meaning or form behind it is sad. All life is is chemicals and energy, indeed, but what happens when the chemical blob you call you ceases to exist? If you subscribe to just dieing when you die, and putting no mind to it during this life, what is the point of living? You will build up your material wealth and then you will lose it, and be lost to history in a few decades, when all the people you knew die too. If you strive to find out now, and find an answer for yourself that you are content with, none of that matters. You can then focus on making things better for others, because you've found meaning in your own life and don't need to focus on yourself. I think that is the point of searching.

Or perhaps it's stronger? Like faith?

Do you believe in evolution?

I find it plausible, but I don't believe in it. If evidence is discovered that contradicts the theory, we'll have to come up with a new explanation.


Do you believe in the big bang?

No. I don't know enough about it to believe in it. And I don't really care.


Do you believe that theres life on other worlds?

No. I think it's possible and a mathematical probability, so why would I believe in it?


Do you believe that the earth is not the center of the universe?

That depends entirely on your position in the universe. As it is infinite, the earth might be the center. Or else Alpha Centauri might be. Or possibly cheesecake.


Answer yes or no to any of these, then you live by faith. Ignorance can be mistaken for faith, yet faith is stronger, faith is conviction in knowing you are right, it is a code you will live by, mature by and nurture the rest of your days.

Everybody is religious, they just don't know it :)

Oh, so the mere act of thinking is a sign of religiousness? Sheesh... :rolleyes:

It's called the bible. ;)

I personally own several copies, as well as have easy access to a whole slew of concordances, dictionaries, and other supplementary materials.

But then, none of these stand as evidence of anything to any greater extent than Harry Potter, The Lord of the Rings, or Battlefield Earth do.

Oh, so the mere act of thinking is a sign of religiousness? Sheesh... :rolleyes:

Oh, come on, no need to be purposely obtuse -- you get what he's saying. Even scientists have their faiths. Physicists believe causality is a fundamental property of the universe. There is no reason to suspect this is so other than that common sense says cause precedes effect with some vague reference to the second law of thermodynamics. Physicists can't even agree on a definiton of the term causality, let alone formulate a reason for citing it as an axiomatic property of the universe. (Sounds like religious faith to me.) Yet many physicists, Stephen Hawking included, have decided time travel is not possible, regardless of what the equations say, because it would violate causality.

I personally own several copies, as well as have easy access to a whole slew of concordances, dictionaries, and other supplementary materials.

But then, none of these stand as evidence of anything to any greater extent than Harry Potter, The Lord of the Rings, or Battlefield Earth do.

It isn't evidence, IMO, but that doesn't mean it isn't something to think about. Read the Upanishads, or Tao Te Ching, or any religious books, and tell me you don't see real thought and meaning to it. You shouldn't put faith in anything, but people have been putting their own opinions out for the world to see, and reading them can help you find your own way to happiness. These are things that can't be proven, ever, in our whole lives, but there are things that can be seen if you try.

True, but speculation does not mean you're following a lie. Living a life without searching for any meaning or form behind it is sad. All life is is chemicals and energy, indeed, but what happens when the chemical blob you call you ceases to exist? If you subscribe to just dieing when you die, and putting no mind to it during this life, what is the point of living? You will build up your material wealth and then you will lose it, and be lost to history in a few decades, when all the people you knew die too. If you strive to find out now, and find an answer for yourself that you are content with, none of that matters. You can then focus on making things better for others, because you've found meaning in your own life and don't need to focus on yourself. I think that is the point of searching.

Personally, I don't know what happens when I die. But I hope that I'll just cease to exist. I have no desire whatsoever to continue on in any form.

I like my life, it has it's ups and downs, but I take comfort in the fact that it will be a limited experience.
And the fact that I don't need to find some greater meaning behind every banality I come across doesn't mean that I'm focused on myself and my own life, on the contrary. I've always enjoyed helping others, I'm known to be the agony aunt of all my friends and most of my family.

Why do so many people seem to live in constant fear of being forgotten once they're dead? Why do you think nothing you have done will matter if you just cease to exist? Nothing will have to matter then, things need to matter now!

Living a life without searching for any meaning or form behind it is sad.


I described my search for meaning in the first couple of paragraphs in of my original post.


All life is is chemicals and energy, indeed, but what happens when the chemical blob you call you ceases to exist?


I don't see why I should care (do not read this statement, or any of my statements, as an endorsement of nihilism; it is not.)


If you subscribe to just dieing when you die, and putting no mind to it during this life, what is the point of living?


The "point" is whatever I want it to be. This statement i find by far more edifying than the practice of engaging in religious speculation. It's a lot simpler too.


If you strive to find out now, and find an answer for yourself that you are content with, none of that matters. You can then focus on making things better for others, because you've found meaning in your own life and don't need to focus on yourself. I think that is the point of searching.

So, in other words, I am supposed to live in fear of the natural and what is ultimately out of my control. I am supposed to try to escape this fear by inventing fairy tales so that I can sleep at night. Somehow, I just don't feel that it is necessary, either to live in fear or make up stories because of it.

Read the Upanishads, or Tao Te Ching, or any religious books, and tell me you don't see real thought and meaning to it.

Yes, but such principles can be examined here and now while still relevant, and while I am still capable. After I die, however, I won't be around to care much anymore; at least I have no reason to believe otherwise.

Why do so many people seem to live in constant fear of being forgotten once they're dead? Why do you think nothing you have done will matter if you just cease to exist? Nothing will have to matter then, things need to matter now!

That was my point though. Searching for meaning gives purpose to your life now, so that you don't become frustrated by that idea.

Why do so many people seem to live in constant fear of being forgotten once they're dead? Why do you think nothing you have done will matter if you just cease to exist? Nothing will have to matter then, things need to matter now!

Because most people don't like to feel insignificant. Quite a lot of people want something of themselves to remain, if only in memories. The thought that nothing one has done in seven or more decades matters is uncomfortable to many people, myself included. I guess it's human nature to want to have importance and be remembered. Meh.

Oh, come on, no need to be purposely obtuse -- you get what he's saying. Even scientists have their faiths. Physicists believe causality is a fundamental property of the universe. There is no reason to suspect this is so other than that common sense says cause precedes effect with some vague reference to the second law of thermodynamics. Physicists can't even agree on a definiton of the term causality, let alone formulate a reason for citing it as an axiomatic property of the universe. (Sounds like religious faith to me.) Yet many physicists, Stephen Hawking included, have decided time travel is not possible, regardless of what the equations say, because it would violate causality.

*lol
Nobody said scientists have to be atheists, either. ;)
I know that science is based on observation, trying to spot the pattern behind reporducable phenomena. And then fomulating it in an abstract way in the hope of being able to apply it to other similar phenomena.

Or, in other words, it's based on the fact that some things have always followed a certain pattern and is assuming that they will do so in the future. Like apples falling from trees, for example. I think the bit where faith could be involved is the assumption that things that have always happened in a certain way in the past will contiue to happen in just the same way in the future.

That, however, is hardly religious, is it?

That was my point though. Searching for meaning gives purpose to your life now, so that you don't become frustrated by that idea.

By what idea, precisely?
It's my life. What further meaning could it possibly need?

Poof gone, eternal non-existing. Yay! :D

There is something after death. If there isn't anything after death, why would we live anyway?

But we tell ourselves lies all the time in order to live rather than just survive. Is it possible (taking a early-Nietzschean view for a second) that with no possibility of an afterlife, the end result (nothingness) negates any reason to continue living? If the end result of 80 years of work and play dissolves with the vanishing electrical potential of your brain, then to the self there could be no benefit to living any longer than you have lived now.

But this train of thought already assumes the favored conclusion that the afterlife provides some kind of reward or conclusion or meaning, where there is no reason to actually rationally believe that such a thing exists; it's is essentially circular reasoning.

I would instead assert, based on what I am able to personally observe, examine, and actually know now, that life can be enjoyed perfectly well here and now, and that this enjoyment is not dependent on any notion of afterlife.

Trees, rocks, and gravity are not typically believed to have "souls" or to possess potential for enjoyment of an afterlife. But they still serve real and valuable purposes here and now, whatever the forces and laws of nature have in store when they are decomposed. I see no reason why I cannot go to my own death with such confidence.

Because most people don't like to feel insignificant. Quite a lot of people want something of themselves to remain, if only in memories. The thought that nothing one has done in seven or more decades matters is uncomfortable to many people, myself included. I guess it's human nature to want to have importance and be remembered. Meh.

Honey, don't get me wrong, but we all are insignificant. Utterly and completely.
The only place where we are important is in our own heart and mind and in the hearts and minds of people who care about us.

Why waste time and effort to try and find a meaning to your life for the time when you no longer have one? Live it now, enjoy it, help others enjoy it. :fluffle:

A funeral?

I don't care.

There is something after death. If there isn't anything after death, why would we live anyway?

So that one day, we can stop living.

I described my search for meaning in the first couple of paragraphs in of my original post.



I don't see why I should care (do not read this statement, or any of my statements, as an endorsement of nihilism; it is not.)



The "point" is whatever I want it to be. This statement i find by far more edifying than the practice of engaging in religious speculation. It's a lot simpler too.



So, in other words, I am supposed to live in fear of the natural and what is ultimately out of my control. I am supposed to try to escape this fear by inventing fairy tales so that I can sleep at night. Somehow, I just don't feel that it is necessary, either to live in fear or make up stories because of it.


I'm not sure how I became your enemy. :confused: Religion doesn't have to be fairy tales. Gautama Buddha (as well as others) strived to get people to stop believing in things they cannot see for themselves, and to look at their own thought patterns and master them. He taught that anything that was irrational was to be given up. He held no "beliefs", and wrote no fairy tales.

I said nothing about living in fear. If you aren't in fear, you have a belief in something. Fear of uncertainty is something everyone has.

Edit: Man, it's past 4, I'm going to sleep.

*lol
Nobody said scientists have to be atheists, either. ;)
I know that science is based on observation, trying to spot the pattern behind reporducable phenomena. And then fomulating it in an abstract way in the hope of being able to apply it to other similar phenomena.

Or, in other words, it's based on the fact that some things have always followed a certain pattern and is assuming that they will do so in the future. Like apples falling from trees, for example. I think the bit where faith could be involved is the assumption that things that have always happened in a certain way in the past will contiue to happen in just the same way in the future.

That, however, is hardly religious, is it?

You're right, it's unfair for me to call it religious. ;) But it's not completely the same as continuing to follow a certain pattern. In this case, the unswerving devotion to causality would fall under the "proof by no evidence to the contrary" logical fallacy.

I'm only saying that I don't see the difference between Joe Schmoe down the road putting all his apples in the GAWD-ALMIGHTY! basket for no reason other than it makes sense based on his limited knowledge of the world, and Dr. Atomsmasher knocking down a whole branch of theoretical physics because it doesn't make sense based on his limited knowledge of the universe.

The truth is, we don't know and unless the hand of God reaches down and flashes a thumbs-up in the sky or something, we'll never know what happens to our katra after we die. I personally hope for the eternal and if all I get is an endorphin-induced feeling of floating followed by a jumble of electrical potentials in my occiptal lobe manifesting itself as a bright light before my eternal dreamless sleep, then it won't have made any difference in the end.

But this train of thought already assumes the favored conclusion that the afterlife provides some kind of reward or conclusion or meaning, where there is no reason to actually rationally believe that such a thing exists; it's is essentially circular reasoning.

Not at all; it only assumes continuance with the ability to reference back. (I'll admit the latter half is my own assumption.)


I would instead assert, based on what I am able to personally observe, examine, and actually know now, that life can be enjoyed perfectly well here and now, and that this enjoyment is not dependent on any notion of afterlife.

Meh. It's your life, I was just trying to get a feel for your reasoning.

I'm not sure how I became your enemy.


You haven't. Sometimes people disagree because they believe differently, not necessary from malice. :)


He held no "beliefs"


Yes he did. A "belief" is nothing more than that which is held to be true. Even asserting a proven fact is to "believe" in something. There is nothing inherently religious about the word.


If you aren't in fear, you have a belief in something.


If that is true, then the lack of belief is to be in fear. In which case, I have a reason to pursue belief in order to resolve fear. In which case, religion is nothing more than the attempt to escape fear. My question: what is there to be in fear of?


Fear of uncertainty is something everyone has.


It's a nasty habit that really should be broken.

I don't think anything happens after death.

I believe there is nothing after death. No heaven, no hell, no re-incarnation. The end.

Evacuation of the bowels.

Well no one really knows. I believe that something happens to your energy, don't know whether it hangs around, or you just ascend to a higher state of consiousness (if I could spell it!).

These polls always make me depressed :(

Honey, don't get me wrong, but we all are insignificant. Utterly and completely.


Never said it wasn't. Just that thinking about it as such makes a lot of people uncomfortable.

And don't call me honey.

Poll explains it. What do you think happens?

Your entire body becomes host to a thriving population of bacteria that were once confined to your digestive system.

I would refer you to the following thread.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=498698

only for a chosen few though

How would I know? I've never been there.

When I die, my brain will cease functioning, and the thing I call "me" will cease to exist.

When I die, my brain will cease functioning, and the thing I call "me" will cease to exist.

Unless you want to be like me and slowly replace bits and pieces of yourself with parts harvested from your own personal clones :D

Poll explains it. What do you think happens?

The worms crawl in, the worms crawl out. The worms play pinochle on your snout.

I get plenty of hot, delicious men... :)

Unless you want to be like me and slowly replace bits and pieces of yourself with parts harvested from your own personal clones :D

Personally, if possible, I intend on having my mind downloaded into my clone whenever the technology becomes available. Since I don't subscribe to nonsense about continuity of consciousness (which requires a supernatural notion that I am something more than my mind), this is the best way I could live for as long as I wanted to.

Decomposition.

Reminds me of a story ... at a gathering attended by WS Gilbert (as in Gilbert and Sullivan) the name of a recently deceased composer came up. Some bright young man, who had not heard of the musician's death, asked, "What is he doing now? Composing, surely?" To which Gilbert said, "No, decomposing." Why do I never get straight lines like that.

Death is about the only thing that truly makes us one with the earth, depending how good your embalmer is.

I'll tell you when I come back.

Westminster Confession of Faith
Chapter XXXII

1. The bodies of the men after death return to dust, and see corruption; but their souls, (which neither die nor sleep), having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them. The souls of the righteous, being then made perfect in holiness, are recieved into the highest heavens, where they behold the face of God in light and glory, waiting for the full redemption of their bodies; and the souls of the wicked are cast into hell, where they remain in torments and utter darkness, reserved to the judgement of the great day. Besides these two places for souls separated from their bodies, the Scripture acknowledgeth none.

2. At the last day, such as are found alive shall not die, but be changed: and all the dead shall be raised up with the self-same bodies, and none other, although with different qualities, which shall be united again to their souls for ever.

3. The bodies of the unjust shall, by the power of Christ, be raised to dishonour; the bodies of the just, by his Spirit, unto honour, and be made conformable to his own gloriuos body.

You back to earth from which all your parts were made.

A wise old friend told me once "do as much as you can while you are alive, because when you die, you're dead for a F*** of a long time!"

Poll explains it. What do you think happens?

A big or small funeral depending on how much of an asshole you were when you were alive!

I have no clue but from my spiritual experiences I like to think that, like a raindrop, we will be falling from our clouded existence back into the ocean of universal consciousness.

I have no clue but from my spiritual experiences I like to think that, like a raindrop, we will be falling from our clouded existence back into the ocean of universal consciousness.

That doesn't explain the rotting smell...

Poll explains it. What do you think happens?

well, if you opt for cremation, you get tossed into the fire, 'crackle, crackle, crackle' which is a bit of a shock if you're not quite dead, but quick, and your relatives get a box of ashes that they can pretend are yours.

or you can choose Burial, where they dig a big hole in the ground and you get eaten by maggots and weevils 'Nibble, Nibble, Nibble' which isn't so hot if, as I said, you are not quite dead.

:D

You go poof...you just die...no afterlife, reincarnation...nothing.

And this statement is grounded on your own extensive personal experience, no? I find it just as naive to assert that there is no afterlife as it is to assume there is one.

Not a damn thing. Your just dead, end of life. We all got one shot, make the best of it.

That doesn't explain the rotting smell...

I suggest you use deoderant

I have no clue but from my spiritual experiences I like to think that, like a raindrop, we will be falling from our clouded existence back into the ocean of universal consciousness.

The force!

The force!

you don't have to force me, as I am quite the slut, but we can role play... "Oh Black Forest, you brute.... stop... stop I say."