NationStates Jolt Archive

Today, we have lots of religion. Some steming from Judaism, some from Celtic, and others that got it start in the last two century but are considered a legit religion. The only thing I don't really consider to be an actual religion are cults, or scams IE Scientology. However, as it has been, ever since religion was created, there's been fighting. From the first caveman fighting over which God or Godness will reward them better, to religious fanatic telling other religious fanatic that they're going to Hell. To be honest with you people, I don't care what you worship or what your religion is. Honestly, I do not give a rats ass. You can be Wiccan, Christian, Islamic, Jew, or SFM worshipper, and honestly I don't think anyone else should really care either. The only time people should care is when some nut job uses religion as a pre-text to do harm to other, or when a person doesn't respect another person belief's structure. You are free to worship however you want.

But what about Heaven and Hell?! You know, I thought about this for a long time, and this is where I have problem with groups (mainly Christians) telling other group that they are going to Hell. I mean to say that we're the only path to Heaven is silly. Christians only make up 1/3rd of the world population, by Christian standards, heaven would be a pretty lonely place, and Hell would be very crowded. I subscribe more to the idea that if you led a good life, and that if you were generally a good person and stuff like that, you'll go to Heaven. If you're a bad person, did bad deeds and harm your fellow man, you'll go to Hell.

The last thing I will talk about is respect. People need to realize that what may work for them, may not work for anyone else. That just because you are a part of your religion doesn't mean you have to force other people to join your religion. Also, I believe that people should choose for themselves whether they should join your religion. The whole "Join now or burn in the firey pits of Hell!" recruit is wrong. When you use that method, you're recruiting people who are joining out of fear, not because they know in their heart that this is the path for them. I think a better recruitment tool is a intelligent, open forum discussion. One more thing, please respect each other religion. We don't all have to believe the same thing, but we could at least be nice to each other.

some from Celtic, and others that got it start in the last two century but are considered a legit religion. .


Doesnt the latter cover the former?

Doesnt the latter cover the former?

Well I was referring to 1900s and 1800s as the last two centuries.

I look at it this way. If there are 10,000 religions, then religious people are atheistic about 9,999 of them. I'm just atheistic about one more of them, so we shouldn't have that big a beef.

But man, is there a hell of a gulf over that one god.

I'm very live and let live on this subject. I was a believer for more of my life than I haven't been, so I can certainly understand the desire. So as long as th religious have no beef with me, I've got no beef with them. But beefing with me includes making your religious beliefs into secular law. Try that and we've got a problem.

Well I was referring to 1900s and 1800s as the last two centuries.

Yeah, but what were you referring to by 'celtic religions' ?

Ive always asked myself something, if g-d exists, why would he/she get so hung up about how you worshipped him? If you say a hail mary, prostrate yourself towards mecca, or put a message into the wailing wall, why would g-d care so much??

I have one question for you. It's a hypothetical. You are a *insert religion here*, you truely belive your *insert religion/lack of* friend is going to go to hell if they don't believe in *insert diety here*. How would you suggest saving them?

Yeah, but what were you referring to by 'celtic religions' ?

Druids, Norse, Greeks, etc.

Yeah, but what were you referring to by 'celtic religions' ? i would assume wicca, since its at least heavily influence by prechristian celtic traditions

Druids, Norse, Greeks, etc.

What in god's name do the norse or the greeks have to do with the celts?

And modern druidism is just about on par with wicca.

>> http://www.religioustolerance.org/druid.htm

I look at it this way. If there are 10,000 religions, then religious people are atheistic about 9,999 of them.
Not necessarily. Some people (like me) believe all religions are a path to God.

i would assume wicca, since its at least heavily influence by prechristian celtic traditions

Which *bingo* falls under the 'created within the last couple hundred years' category.

I have one question for you. It's a hypothetical. You are a *insert religion here*, you truely belive your *insert religion/lack of* friend is going to go to hell if they don't believe in *insert diety here*. How would you suggest saving them?

The usual method is by converting them, which I have a hard time believing, because you don't know if they really do want to convert, or if they're just converting out of fear.

Druids, Norse, Greeks, etc.
there may well be a common origin of most indoeuropean religions, but aside from that celtic, norse and greek paganism were pretty distinct.

Ive always asked myself something, if g-d exists, why would he/she get so hung up about how you worshipped him? If you say a hail mary, prostrate yourself towards mecca, or put a message into the wailing wall, why would g-d care so much??

I don't know, you'd think an all seeing, all knowing, and being that is all around us would have better things to do than to get hung up over whorshipped.

Druids, Norse, Greeks, etc.

druidism yes, Norse mythology is called asatru, and the greeks were not celtic they were hellenistic. Celtic is an ethnic group/race specific to Great britain the irish, scotts, welsh, are celts. englishmen are anglo-saxon

druidism yes, Norse mythology is called asatru, and the greeks were not celtic they were hellenistic. Celtic is an ethnic group/race specific to Great britain the irish, scotts, welsh, are celts. englishmen are anglo-saxon

Ahh, well on the Wicca thread I keep on hearing how Wicca got its root in Celtic religion, so that where I got that from. Looks like I am wrong about that, my bad.

But what about Heaven and Hell?! You know, I thought about this for a long time, and this is where I have problem with groups (mainly Christians) telling other group that they are going to Hell. I mean to say that we're the only path to Heaven is silly. Christians only make up 1/3rd of the world population, by Christian standards, heaven would be a pretty lonely place, and Hell would be very crowded. I subscribe more to the idea that if you led a good life, and that if you were generally a good person and stuff like that, you'll go to Heaven. If you're a bad person, did bad deeds and harm your fellow man, you'll go to Hell.



This whole Hell thing really makes me laugh. The Hell thing in the Bible is not meant in a literal way. Christ never talks about it in literal way. Rather a spiritual way. Hell is a lack of spiritual understanding. to be in Hell means you have turned your back on spiritual knowledge and chose to live a life far removed from the message that Christ or any of the any of the other Messengers of God such as Moses, Muhammed, Buddha etc.

I have one question for you. It's a hypothetical. You are a *insert religion here*, you truely belive your *insert religion/lack of* friend is going to go to hell if they don't believe in *insert diety here*. How would you suggest saving them?

Dont.

Unless they ask you to.

Otherwise, its absolutely, positively, without a doubt...

NONE of your business.

Ahh, well on the Wicca thread I keep on hearing how Wicca got its root in Celtic religion, so that where I got that from. Looks like I am wrong about that, my bad.

Problem is: wicca is a modern invention that tries to ape what some people think the old, dead celts believed in. Ditto "neopagan druid."

druidism yes, Norse mythology is called asatru, and the greeks were not celtic they were hellenistic. Celtic is an ethnic group/race specific to Great britain the irish, scotts, welsh, are celts. englishmen are anglo-saxon
though english neopaganism does tend more toward the celtic than the germanic.

Not necessarily. Some people (like me) believe all religions are a path to God.Fair enough.

I don't know, you'd think an all seeing, all knowing, and being that is all around us would have better things to do than to get hung up over whorshipped.

exactly, besides why would he want like at least 66% of his creations burn in hell? my pediction: we'll all go up to heaven and the god will be totally unexpected, like odin, thor, Ahura Mazda, or lao-Tzu and we'll all be f*cked

But what about Heaven and Hell?! You know, I thought about this for a long time, and this is where I have problem with groups (mainly Christians) telling other group that they are going to Hell. I mean to say that we're the only path to Heaven is silly. Christians only make up 1/3rd of the world population, by Christian standards, heaven would be a pretty lonely place, and Hell would be very crowded. I subscribe more to the idea that if you led a good life, and that if you were generally a good person and stuff like that, you'll go to Heaven. If you're a bad person, did bad deeds and harm your fellow man, you'll go to Hell.

This whole Hell thing really makes me laugh. The Hell thing in the Bible is not meant in a literal way. Christ never talks about it in literal way. Rather a spiritual way. Hell is a lack of spiritual understanding. to be in Hell means you have turned your back on spiritual knowledge and chose to live a life far removed from the message that Christ or any of the any of the other Messengers of God such as Moses, Muhammed, Buddha etc.

HOLY HELL, that 'code' bit needs to be used more often. +10000

EDIT: where did it go, what did you do it it?

Wohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

B
This whole Hell thing really makes me laugh. The Hell thing in the Bible is not meant in a literal way. Christ never talks about it in literal way. Rather a spiritual way. Hell is a lack of spiritual understanding. to be in Hell means you have turned your back on spiritual knowledge and chose to live a life far removed from the message that Christ or any of the any of the other Messengers of God such as Moses, Muhammed, Buddha etc.

Hmm, haven't really thought about it that way, but that's a good way of looking at it. :)

exactly, besides why would he want like at least 66% of his creations burn in hell? my pediction: we'll all go up to heaven and the god will be totally unexpected, like odin, thor, Ahura Mazda, or lao-Tzu and we'll all be f*cked

LOL! Actually ending up in Vanhallan would be pretty sweet. I heard you can do some awesome things in there.

The usual method is by converting them, which I have a hard time believing, because you don't know if they really do want to convert, or if they're just converting out of fear.

*sigh* my question was what would you suggest?

Sorry guys. I was messing around with the gadets. It looked weird to me so I changed it.

Dont.

Unless they ask you to.

Otherwise, its absolutely, positively, without a doubt...

NONE of your business.

not if your diety demands you convert them. then you gotta do what the big guy asks... same as if he asks you to cut out their hearts and offer them up to him. you must do what you god demands if you are a true believer and you are a moral person, otherwise you must by definition not be one or both.

*sigh* my question was what would you suggest?

Eh leave them alone. If that what they want to believe, then whatever.

LOL! Actually ending up in Vanhallan would be pretty sweet. I heard you can do some awesome things in there.

Meh, i want to be re-incarnated as a bald eagle, so I can take the biggest dumps on the most expensive cars....

Dont.

Unless they ask you to.

Otherwise, its absolutely, positively, without a doubt...

NONE of your business.

So I should relegate them to a lake of molten sulfur for all eternity?

So I should relegate them to a lake of molten sulfur for all eternity?

Absotively posilutely

Absotively posilutely

... *walks away*

Meh, i want to be re-incarnated as a bald eagle, so I can take the biggest dumps on the most expensive cars....

lol.

Meh, i want to be re-incarnated as a bald eagle, so I can take the biggest dumps on the most expensive cars....

Yeah, I kind of want to end up in Elysium...

Hmm, haven't really thought about it that way, but that's a good way of looking at it. :)

Read the quotes about hell in the bible and see if it doesn't make sense to you. Really what Christ was saying is that there is a way to live a life and if you stray from that path you have hurt yourself. He takes great pains to tell people that just following the law is not enough. You must also follow that spirit of the law.

Read the quotes about hell in the bible and see if it doesn't make sense to you. Really what Christ was saying is that there is a way to live a life and if you stray from that path you have hurt yourself. He takes great pains to tell people that just following the law is not enough. You must also follow that spirit of the law.

exactly.

Ive always asked myself something, if g-d exists, why would he/she get so hung up about how you worshipped him? If you say a hail mary, prostrate yourself towards mecca, or put a message into the wailing wall, why would g-d care so much??

excuse me for quoting myself, but what is my belief system here? is this unitarian universalist?

exactly.

I could say that the entire message of Christ was really about spirit and the application of spiritual principles to the problems that humanity faces everyday. His whole Sermon on the Mount was template for people to follow during their daily activities.

"In the world of spirit there is no retrogression. The world of mortality is a world of contradictions, of opposites; motion being compulsory everything must either go forward or retreat. In the realm of spirit there is no retreat possible, all movement is bound to be towards a perfect state. 'Progress' is the expression of spirit in the world of matter. The intelligence of man, his reasoning powers, his knowledge, his scientific achievements, all these being manifestations of the spirit, partake of the inevitable law of spiritual progress and are, therefore, of necessity, immortal."

(Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 89)

So I should relegate them to a lake of molten sulfur for all eternity?

So I should relegate them to a lake of molten sulfur for all eternity?


Unless they specifically ask you to do otherwise...

HELL yes.

Spirituality is a very delicate thing.

You may believe that you are truly saved, and loved by God, and thats all well and good, but I dont believe there IS a god, and to me, your wsting your time praying to thin air...

So...the point is that beliefs vary from person to person.

This means that it is very possible your "friend" knows full well of your faith, and if he/she wanted any part of it, they would have already asked you.

To do anything else, makes you no better than the shitheads who knock on peoples doors at 7 in AM, asking you if you like to know about Jesus.

Dont be one of the Christians who give the rest a bad name.

druidism yes, Norse mythology is called asatru, and the greeks were not celtic they were hellenistic. Celtic is an ethnic group/race specific to Great britain the irish, scotts, welsh, are celts. englishmen are anglo-saxon

Actually, the celts were in Europe too, not just the British Isles.

The Gauls of France were celts. They were conquered by the Romans & gradually pushed out as the Franks & other Germanic tribes moved in. The Bretons, of modern day Brittany in France, are celts. Their language is related to Welsh.

There were also celtic populations in the Iberian Peninsula (now Spain & Portugal), Germany & Central Europe.

Actually, the celts were in Europe too, not just the British Isles.

The Gauls of France were celts. They were conquered by the Romans & gradually pushed out as the Franks & other Germanic tribes moved in.

There were also celtic populations in the Iberian Peninsula (now Spain & Portugal), Germany & Central Europe.


This is why Thor was worshipped in Germany, and why theres a BIG similarity between him, and the Celtic god Leir. (Lord of lightning and the Spear)

excuse me for quoting myself, but what is my belief system here? is this unitarian universalist?

You can call it that, there are a lot of religions that have that belief. The same belief is a big part of Hindu faith as well. In that, any god anyone worships and devotes himself to, either through actual worship, helping people, being a good person, ect. is the correct god. All gods are the same god, Brahma, Vishnu, Siva, YHWH, Thor, Allah, whatever. You can choose any personal god that helps you, since in the end it doesn't matter.

You'll either end up reincarnated, in nirvana (nothingness), or one with God (heaven) anyway.

I subscribe to the idea that when you die, you go poof.

Today, we have lots of religion. Some steming from Judaism, some from Celtic, and others that got it start in the last two century but are considered a legit religion. The only thing I don't really consider to be an actual religion are cults, or scams IE Scientology. However, as it has been, ever since religion was created, there's been fighting. From the first caveman fighting over which God or Godness will reward them better, to religious fanatic telling other religious fanatic that they're going to Hell. To be honest with you people, I don't care what you worship or what your religion is. Honestly, I do not give a rats ass. You can be Wiccan, Christian, Islamic, Jew, or SFM worshipper, and honestly I don't think anyone else should really care either. The only time people should care is when some nut job uses religion as a pre-text to do harm to other, or when a person doesn't respect another person belief's structure. You are free to worship however you want.

But what about Heaven and Hell?! You know, I thought about this for a long time, and this is where I have problem with groups (mainly Christians) telling other group that they are going to Hell. I mean to say that we're the only path to Heaven is silly. Christians only make up 1/3rd of the world population, by Christian standards, heaven would be a pretty lonely place, and Hell would be very crowded. I subscribe more to the idea that if you led a good life, and that if you were generally a good person and stuff like that, you'll go to Heaven. If you're a bad person, did bad deeds and harm your fellow man, you'll go to Hell.

The last thing I will talk about is respect. People need to realize that what may work for them, may not work for anyone else. That just because you are a part of your religion doesn't mean you have to force other people to join your religion. Also, I believe that people should choose for themselves whether they should join your religion. The whole "Join now or burn in the firey pits of Hell!" recruit is wrong. When you use that method, you're recruiting people who are joining out of fear, not because they know in their heart that this is the path for them. I think a better recruitment tool is a intelligent, open forum discussion. One more thing, please respect each other religion. We don't all have to believe the same thing, but we could at least be nice to each other.

Quoting that thing above. I agree on many points mentioned above. I don't discriminate anyone regardless of race, religion, social affiliations..etc....What I find disturbing only that some religion thinks that they are mighty and more humane than the people who doesn't have a religion or being an atheist. I don't believe in religion either...what is right or wrong in one religion might not be applicable to other beliefs. For me as a human we have to imposed moral authority within ourselves and not to anyone. It doesn't mean you're in a religion and I'm not doesn't make me a lesser person coz it boils down to values and beliefs that we learn to adopt as we grow up. It's not because this is what the society dictates so that makes everthing right coz in the end its how we lived our lives that matters. And no religion can save us. It's what we do with our lives that matters. Seeing life objectively....trying to see the reasons beyond everything. There are such things as universal truths and we don't need to be in any group just to feel right about ourselves. We have the capacity to think and its innate nature to be able to define what's right and wrong and strive for perfection. I know some might be thinking that perfection is something unattainable and I might agree on that. I might die and still not attained perfection. But the thing is I strive to be perfect irregardless of the absence of religion in my life. And I don't settle for mediocrity either. And for me heaven and hell are the same. They both belong to mysticism. And in the absence of something, some human minds stop to think and link the gap to something that cannot be seen nor touched just to fill in the gap and satisfy themselves with accuracy being ignored.

You can call it that, there are a lot of religions that have that belief. The same belief is a big part of Hindu faith as well. In that, any god anyone worships and devotes himself to, either through actual worship, helping people, being a good person, ect. is the correct god. All gods are the same god, Brahma, Vishnu, Siva, YHWH, Thor, Allah, whatever. You can choose any personal god that helps you, since in the end it doesn't matter.

You'll either end up reincarnated, in nirvana (nothingness), or one with God (heaven) anyway.

Hmm, I can actually believe that. :)