NationStates Jolt Archive

So I was reading the comics today (as I do everyday), I read the advice column here written by Amy called "Ask Amy." Normally it's about stuff that I don't give a rat's ass about, but today's caught my eye.


Friend in a Cult

Dear Amy: I have a friend who is like a sister. We've drifted apart over the last few years, and when we reconnected (after I searched for her), I found she had become absorbed by a certain popular pseud-religion prominet in Hollywood these days. (Anyone who can guess what cult she is talking about get's a slice of cheese cake.)

She has given up all of her material things and have moved into their facility. She works for them for free and has completely given up her dreams and relationship with family or friends outside the "Church". She says she is "like a nun" now and has no interests outside her group.

I am torn between writin an angry letter, pouring out my fears, hurt and absolute panic at losing her, and trying to maintain contact with a neutral, happy letter in the hopes that she may someday snap out of it. How do you cope when your best friend has been brainwashed by a cult?

Grievving a Lost Friend

Now normally Amy gives good advice, but today, her advice just totally suck, and I don't know if she got what cult she was talking about, or if that just went over her head, here's her advice.


Dear Grieving: If your friend has become a cloistered Catholic Nun, (notice with me how Grieving used quotation marks when she called her friend a nun, but Amy didn't.) you would probably be honest about your sadness at losing her. Perhaps you'd also say you don't understand her choice. You might even say you're dissapointed. But at the end of the day, you would have to accept this choice- because you can't do a darned thing about it.

When you write to her, be honest and loving. I don't think it's useful to pour out your "fears, hurt and absolute panic." You should be the best approximation of your natural self, as you try to keep the door to your friendship open.

Now, under normal curmistances, this may seem like sound advice, but this is the CoS we're talking about here, they're not your typical run of the mill cult. Here's the e-mail I sent off to Amy. It may be over the top, but whatever.

Dear Amy,

I read "Friend in a cult" today, and from her description of the cult, it sounds like it's the Church of Scientology. I'm afraid your advice was not good enough. The Cult of Scientology is more than your run of the mill cult, it is very very dangerous. The Cult of Scientology does what it has done to her friend. It isolates the person, force them to give up their lives, cut off friends and families and her friend is basically wasting her money on this dangerous cult. Now, so far it seems pretty harmless, this is where it gets dangerous. The Cult of Scientology Kills. Yes Amy, Scientology does actually kill. See, in the doctrine of Scientology, anyone who is against the cult, who leaves the cult, or does any wrong doing to the cult is "Fair Game". What does it mean to be "fair game"? To be "Fair Game" means that they can go from harrassing you out on public street, to ruining your credit information, falisfying information, and even kill you if not by their hand then by suicide. I would go into more detail, but you have a space limit and I would just like to add my own advice to Grieving to a Lost Friend. First I would Reasearch! Go to these websites. The first one is Operation Clambake (http://www.xenu.net/) which was created by and maintained by a former Scientologist. Also go to this website (http://www.lisamcpherson.org/), it's dedicated to a one of the many people who were killed by Scientology. Grieving a Lost Friend, if you really love your friend and want what's best for her, then I suggest you try anything and everything to get her out of this cult, Scientology is nothing to laugh about.

"Warthog"

Just thought I'd share this with yall.

You did well with the e-mail you sent to Amy. She obviously doesn't quite understand the difference between the Catholic church and the cult of Scientology.

You did well with the e-mail you sent to Amy. She obviously doesn't quite understand the difference between the Catholic church and the cult of Scientology.

Doesn't she know that when you put something in quotation marks, or use words such as "like", you don't actually mean it?

Doesn't she know that when you put something in quotation marks, or use words such as "like", you don't actually mean it?

Maybe. Or maybe she actually has a grievance with the Catholic church and wants to influence her readers into thinking that Catholic nuns are brainwashed people etc.

Maybe. Or maybe she actually has a grievance with the Catholic church and wants to influence her readers into thinking that Catholic nuns are brainwashed people etc.

Possible.

I'm pretty sure nuns aren't exclusive to Catholicism either, so it was a bit of an assumption of her to think nun meant a Catholic anyway, especially as this is regarding a cult.

I'm pretty sure nuns aren't exclusive to Catholicism either, so it was a bit of an assumption of her to think nun meant a Catholic anyway, especially as this is regarding a cult.

yea, but grieving said this.

I found she had become absorbed by a certain popular pseud-religion prominet in Hollywood these days.

Umm, hello! Jeez. This woman would've gotten better result from her spiritual or religious leader.

Dear Abby,

Got a problem. I’m a decent, underpaid, hardworking county coroner. It’s important that my family eat meat at least three times a week. But we just can’t afford to with the prices the way they are. So I bring home choice cuts from my autopsy subjects. Just mix in the Tuna Helper, and ta-da! The whole family things my new meals are delicious. They ask me what’s my secret. Abby, I think they’re getting suspicious. My smart-ass 8-year-old keeps asking, “Where’s all the meat? The red dye #2 kind that’s kept in the fridge.” If they find out the truth I don’t think they’ll understand. Abby, what do I tell my family?

DEAR REAGANOMICS VICTIM

Consult your clergyman. Make sure the body’s blessed and everything should be just fine.

See, now if it was me with an advice column..... *is called Amy*

It's obvious Amy (not the Amy*) thinks Catholics are a cult.

Reassuring.




*Glitziness, of course

Grieving a Lost Friend, if you really love your friend and want what's best for her, then I suggest you try anything and everything to get her out of this cult, Scientology is nothing to laugh about.


But if they kill the people who leave, shouldn't you try anything and everything to get her to stay in the cult?

But if they kill the people who leave, shouldn't you try anything and everything to get her to stay in the cult?

Read up on Lisa McPherson.

See, now if it was me with an advice column..... *is called Amy*

i was trying to work out a way of saying just that - if it was you the advice would be rather different :P plus, you'd just rock at being an agony aunt hehe :fluffle:

i was trying to work out a way of saying just that - if it was you the advice would be rather different :P plus, you'd just rock at being an agony aunt hehe :fluffle:
awwww :P thank you :) :fluffle:

and yay at being the Amy! *is all proud* :p :D

Read up on Lisa McPherson.

Meh, people die of medical treatments all the time. That single case doesn't mean it's more dangerous to stay in Scientology and leaving it.

(Better not joining at all, it's stupid anyway, but...)

awwww :P thank you :) :fluffle:

and yay at being the Amy! *is all proud* :p :D

are you starting an NS advice column?

*giggles*

I really hope she replies.

are you starting an NS advice column?

i think she should :)
should have her own website AFAIC :p

i think she should :)
should have her own website AFAIC :p

I'd pay attention.;)

Dear Glitz,

Day in and day out I find myself surrounded by raging youngsters obsessed with Star Trek. I try to ignore the tension, but fail horribly.

I feel if this goes on, I will go crazy!

Please help,

Surrounded By Treks

are you starting an NS advice column?
hehe, I could if a) I had the time and b) there was the demand :P

Part of me would love to do a proper one in the future... I read them in magazines and always want to give a far more indepth and personalised response to people....

*giggles*

I really hope she replies.

Hell I hope she prints it. She doesn't reply, but she does print the advice.

sounds like an interesting story, keep us updated with all the details you are willing to share. :D

Wilgrove, tell us if there is a response to this in the day's next advice column, It would be interesting to see what they (both Amy and the person who wrote in) say in response to that warning.

ask amy was very correct in her answer.

when your friend makes a life decision that you consider stupid and you know that she is getting ration of shit from everyone she knows. when she is being systematically removed from all her friends and family, you MUST not give her handlers the impression that you are one of those people. if you do, you will be cut off from all possiblility of helping her.

so you pretend that she has made a similar decision to becoming a cloistered nun. you write her a letter saying you have heard of her new life, that you are sorry you have let your friendship slip away and you would love to get together to discuss this new religion she has found.

you approach your disdain for her beliefs with extreme care never laying it on too thick. you emphasize how much fun you are having while living a more normal life (even if you have to lie about it). you try to be her lifeline for the day when she realizes that she has made a big mistake and she needs your help to get out of this cult.

if you go in with guns blazing telling her that its a cult and she is a fool, all you will do is insure that you will never talk to her again.

ask amy was very correct in her answer.

when your friend makes a life decision that you consider stupid and you know that she is getting ration of shit from everyone she knows. when she is being systematically removed from all her friends and family, you MUST not give her handlers the impression that you are one of those people. if you do, you will be cut off from all possiblility of helping her.

so you pretend that she has made a similar decision to becoming a cloistered nun. you write her a letter saying you have heard of her new life, that you are sorry you have let your friendship slip away and you would love to get together to discuss this new religion she has found.

you approach your disdain for her beliefs with extreme care never laying it on too thick. you emphasize how much fun you are having while living a more normal life (even if you have to lie about it). you try to be her lifeline for the day when she realizes that she has made a big mistake and she needs your help to get out of this cult.

if you go in with guns blazing telling her that its a cult and she is a fool, all you will do is insure that you will never talk to her again.



That makes a lot of sense, but it isn't exactly what Amy is saying.

ask amy was very correct in her answer.

when your friend makes a life decision that you consider stupid and you know that she is getting ration of shit from everyone she knows. when she is being systematically removed from all her friends and family, you MUST not give her handlers the impression that you are one of those people. if you do, you will be cut off from all possiblility of helping her.

so you pretend that she has made a similar decision to becoming a cloistered nun. you write her a letter saying you have heard of her new life, that you are sorry you have let your friendship slip away and you would love to get together to discuss this new religion she has found.

you approach your disdain for her beliefs with extreme care never laying it on too thick. you emphasize how much fun you are having while living a more normal life (even if you have to lie about it). you try to be her lifeline for the day when she realizes that she has made a big mistake and she needs your help to get out of this cult.

if you go in with guns blazing telling her that its a cult and she is a fool, all you will do is insure that you will never talk to her again.

Yea, but this is Scientology we're talking about, they're not exactly stupid people. It's best to get her out of there ASAP, and try to lay low for awhile. She does need to get out of there before it's too late. You'd be suprised how many people died either directly or indirectly because of Scientology.

Dear Glitz,

Day in and day out I find myself surrounded by raging youngsters obsessed with Star Trek. I try to ignore the tension, but fail horribly.

I feel if this goes on, I will go crazy!

Please help,

Surrounded By Treks

Trekkies.

Meh, people die of medical treatments all the time. That single case doesn't mean it's more dangerous to stay in Scientology and leaving it.

(Better not joining at all, it's stupid anyway, but...)

It would be death from medical treatment if the Scientologist haven't driven her from their place in Florida, to a hospital 40 minutes away, just because they have a Scientologist on staff. There was plenty of hospitals that could've treated her in the nearby area (5 miles or less) but nah they wanted to go to the one that had the Scientologist. Also the autopsy report of Lisa reveals that she's been severly dehydrated and starved. So, Scientology did kill her.

It would be death from medical treatment if the Scientologist haven't driven her from their place in Florida, to a hospital 40 minutes away, just because they have a Scientologist on staff. There was plenty of hospitals that could've treated her in the nearby area (5 miles or less) but nah they wanted to go to the one that had the Scientologist. Also the autopsy report of Lisa reveals that she's been severly dehydrated and starved. So, Scientology did kill her.

Yes, I'm not saying scientology didn't kill her, I'm saying that it's more dangerous to leave scientology than staying (i.e. they'll kill you more surely if you leave than if you stay). At least according to the OP.

Yes, I'm not saying scientology didn't kill her, I'm saying that it's more dangerous to leave scientology than staying (i.e. they'll kill you more surely if you leave than if you stay). At least according to the OP.

lol I am the OP, and in that cult, I would actually say about half and half. Sometimes they kill you because they think you're going to turn against them, and yea they do try to kill you if you leave the cult. So damn if you do, damn if you don't really.

lol I am the OP, and in that cult, I would actually say about half and half. Sometimes they kill you because they think you're going to turn against them, and yea they do try to kill you if you leave the cult. So damn if you do, damn if you don't really.

Do they kill people who are actively against scientology, but were never scientologists?

Do they kill people who are actively against scientology, but were never scientologists?

They try to wreck their lives, or use their powerful legal team. But they're now finding out that they can't control the internet. :D

They try to wreck their lives, or use their powerful legal team. But they're now finding out that they can't control the internet. :D

lol

How do they wreck their lives?

lol

How do they wreck their lives?

With the help of this man:

http://img.barterbee.com/coverg/63/640563.jpg

With the help of this man:

http://img.barterbee.com/coverg/63/640563.jpg

ROFL

Dear Abby,

Got a problem. I’m a decent, underpaid, hardworking county coroner. It’s important that my family eat meat at least three times a week. But we just can’t afford to with the prices the way they are. So I bring home choice cuts from my autopsy subjects. Just mix in the Tuna Helper, and ta-da! The whole family things my new meals are delicious. They ask me what’s my secret. Abby, I think they’re getting suspicious. My smart-ass 8-year-old keeps asking, “Where’s all the meat? The red dye #2 kind that’s kept in the fridge.” If they find out the truth I don’t think they’ll understand. Abby, what do I tell my family?

DEAR REAGANOMICS VICTIM

Consult your clergyman. Make sure the body’s blessed and everything should be just fine.

Heh. I had no idea that was how it went. I'll never look at the song the same way again.

Be careful - I recently found out this film is Scientology propoganda:
http://www.cinema.com/image_lib/8527_poster.jpg

Dear Amy: I have a friend who is like a sister. We've drifted apart over the last few years, and when we finally reconnected (after I searched for her), I found that she had become absorbed by a certain popular pseudo-religion very prominent in Hollywood these days.

She has given up all of her material things and moved into their facility. She works for them for free and has completely given up her dreams and any relationship that involves family or friends outside the "Church."

She says she is "like a nun" now and has no interests outside of her group.

She is cool and distant.

I am torn between writing an angry letter, pouring out my fears, hurt and absolute panic at losing her, and trying to maintain contact with a neutral, happy letter letting her now about my life in the hopes that she may some day snap out of it.

How do you cope when you feel your best friend has been brainwashed by a cult and there is nothing you can do about it?

I am all for religious freedom, but this group is not religion, and it is not free.

-- Grieving a Lost Friend

Dear Grieving: If your friend had become a cloistered Catholic nun, you would probably be honest about your sadness at losing her. Perhaps you would also say that you don't understand her choice. You might even say that you're disappointed. But at the end of the day, you would have to accept this choice -- because you can't do a darned thing about it.

When you write to her, you should be honest and loving. I don't think it's useful to pour out your "fears, hurt and absolute panic." You should be the best approximation of your natural self as you can manage to keep the door to your friendship open.

This is very sad loss to you and to her family. You might want to contact them to talk this through.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/chi-0609040023sep04,1,966817.column

You seem to have misunderstood what Amy was saying, or you are misrepresenting it. Considering that you've in fact edited the letter and response leads me to believe the latter. A very important word in her response, which you happened to leave in, is "if".

"If" means:

1 a : in the event that b : allowing that c : on the assumption that d : on condition that
2 : WHETHER <asked if the mail had come> <I doubt if I'll pass the course>
3 -- used as a function word to introduce an exclamation expressing a wish <if it would only rain>
4 : even though : although perhaps <an interesting if untenable argument>
5 : and perhaps not even <few if any changes are expected> -- often used with not <difficult if not impossible>
- if anything : on the contrary even : perhaps even <if anything, you ought to apologize>

When Amy writes: "If she had become a Cloistered nun", she is saying that the writer would have accepted it eventually, and would not have worried about being honest about her feelings. SHE DOES NOT THINK that the friend is a cloistered nun -- that is your misinterpretation.

She tells her to be neutral and loving to keep the door open to friendship.

It's curious to me that you neglected to include her last paragraph, where she acknowledges that this is "a very sad loss" for the friend's family and the writer, and urging the writer to contact the family about this. It seems to me it's not Amy who's clueless.

That's quite the explanation, Kat. Though the real question is:

Do we care?

All advice columns are full of shite advice (except Dan Savage's one "Savage Love" which is hilarious to read and he's refreshingly honest in his opinions: if it means telling the person they're a fuck-up, he will) given out to people who, let's face it, are idiots if they think someone in a newspaper can give them better advice than they themselves can come up with.

lol

How do they wreck their lives?

To see the full effect that this cult can have. I would suggest you look at this.

Operation Freakout

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout

http://home.snafu.de/tilman/krasel/cooper/

All Paulette Cooper was write a book about what Scientology is all about.

Operation Snow White

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White

http://www.answers.com/topic/operation-snow-white

Operation Snow White was the biggest inflitration of the United States Government.

Scientology is dangerous, and they believe they are above the law and criticism. They will go to great length to keep this illusion up.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/chi-0609040023sep04,1,966817.column

You seem to have misunderstood what Amy was saying, or you are misrepresenting it. Considering that you've in fact edited the letter and response leads me to believe the latter. A very important word in her response, which you happened to leave in, is "if".

"If" means:

1 a : in the event that b : allowing that c : on the assumption that d : on condition that
2 : WHETHER <asked if the mail had come> <I doubt if I'll pass the course>
3 -- used as a function word to introduce an exclamation expressing a wish <if it would only rain>
4 : even though : although perhaps <an interesting if untenable argument>
5 : and perhaps not even <few if any changes are expected> -- often used with not <difficult if not impossible>
- if anything : on the contrary even : perhaps even <if anything, you ought to apologize>

When Amy writes: "If she had become a Cloistered nun", she is saying that the writer would have accepted it eventually, and would not have worried about being honest about her feelings. SHE DOES NOT THINK that the friend is a cloistered nun -- that is your misinterpretation.

She tells her to be neutral and loving to keep the door open to friendship.

It's curious to me that you neglected to include her last paragraph, where she acknowledges that this is "a very sad loss" for the friend's family and the writer, and urging the writer to contact the family about this. It seems to me it's not Amy who's clueless.


The Charlotte Observer did not print the last paragraph, however my point that this is about CoS and about the cult itself remains valid.

That's quite the explanation, Kat. Though the real question is:

Do we care?

Only if you care whether or not the OP was completely honest in how he represented the issue before going off on his rant.

Only if you care whether or not the OP was completely honest in how he represented the issue before going off on his rant.

Like I said, The Charlotte Observer (which was where I read the advice) did not print that part.

This is what I read. As you can see, they left that part out.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/15435849.htm

I apologise -- though I wonder why THEY left it out -- it did change the meaning of her answer.

I apologise -- though I wonder why THEY left it out -- it did change the meaning of her answer.

Eh, I don't think they did it on purpose, they have limited spaces, and yea.