NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/display.var.895777.0.screams_ignored_as_girl_12_is_attacked.php

A 12-year-old Jewish girl who was beaten unconscious and robbed by anti-Semitic yobs on a bus has spoken out at her disgust that no-one came to her aid.

The girl, who does not want to be identified, was stamped on several times in a racist attack lasting around five minutes while on board a 303 Metroline bus in Mill Hill, north London.

and

"I thought it is the normal, human thing to go to help two young girls, as we were screaming. There were people there acting like nothing happened. "

This isn't a problem that is confined to London (the inaction of authority figures, official policies to avoid being involved, and the mute immobility of passersby).

What is it in people that makes them act as though nothing is happenning?

Would you have done anything?

If I was with a group of friends, odds are that we could win. Not alone, though. All that would achieve is getting me beaten up.

I'd like to think that I'd have physically intervened to try to stop the attack.

I would probably kick some ass. There's no use in waiting for the police in this situation, you gotta take it into your own hand.

This is why all minorities should be required to carry and know how to use automatic weaponry.

There is absolutely no reason or excuse for not getting involved in the situation. The victims were attacked by 4 other kids. How hard is it to pull a teenage kid away from the victim she's stomping?

I'd also like to think I'd involve myself physically, but since I'm physically weak and pathetic I probably wouldn't be much use. Probably call for help, whack an attacker with a nearby heavy object and run like hell.

If I was with a group of friends, odd are that we could win. Not alone, though. All that would achieve is getting me beaten up.

That's right. If they were Nazi skins, they probably wouldn't worry about going a step further. But then again, they were gutless enough to pick on little girls.

This is why all minorities should be required to carry and know how to use automatic weaponry.

Wouldn't work. The victim and the attackers were minorities.

I'm so pissed off right now.

That is FUCKING SICKENING.

This is a copy of what I posted in response to something on another message board:

I would help however many people are there. Main problem with stepping in is people are scared - but if everyone or at least a large majority of the population decided they would step in, there'd be no need to be scared, as anyon who stepped in in a crowded place (or a street where there are people in the houses) would be backed up by all the other people around who had decided they would step in.

Even before I learned some useful techniques, I would have (and in fact I have previously) stepped in anyway - 1. I don't want it to play on my conscious that I was too cowardly to do anything and 2. the most important reason, I don't want something really horrible to happen to the other person (murder/rape for example).

I would try to deal with it rationally rather than angrily though - find out what was going on before I ended up beating someone up, and only use violence if absolutely necessary.

As some person once said (or something like this): "When good men do nothing, that is evil enough"

Why the fuck didn't the driver even open the doors, let alone try to help the girls? I'm seriously disgusted. He should be locked up for being complicit or something.

Personally, if I were in that situation, I'd try to ask surrounding people to help me break it up or at least call the police. In the end it depends on how many of them there were and if there was a chance I could beat at least one of them.

I would have tried to intervene, though likely to get beaten up as well.

Soon as one person moves to help it normally casues others to follow and help though (probably a guilt thing). It just needs to get one person to get the ball rolling.

This is why all minorities should be required to carry and know how to use automatic weaponry.

Brilliant idea. We should arm all 12 year olds across the globe. :)

Called the "Bystander effect".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect
The bystander effect (also known as bystander apathy) is a psychological phenomenon where persons are less likely to intervene in an emergency situation when others are present than when they are alone.
Nothing new about it. Just sad, really.


Important thing to remember if you ever see a situation like the OP describes is that it is easy to break the effect, by becoming involved. As soon as one person goes to help, several more will follow. If you are unsure ppl will join you, address them personally and ask for their assistance directly.

I'd like to think that I'd have physically intervened to try to stop the attack.
Yep.

Wouldn't work. The victim and the attackers were minorities.

Good point. That would probably lead to even more problems.

All right, so we train everyone in kung-fu. That way, at the very least there's a cool fight scene. Also, by the extent to which they are a minority in the area where they live, they are taught more kung-fu.

Oh, and we make sure that the public employees know that when something like that happens, either they help out or they lose their jobs.

Called the "Bystander effect".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

Nothing new about it. Just sad, really.


Important thing to remember if you ever see a situation like the OP describes is that it is easy to break the effect, by becoming involved. As soon as one person goes to help, several more will follow. If you are unsure ppl will join you, address them personally and ask for their assistance directly.

That probably isn't entirely compatible with fights, though. With MORE people, I'm LESS likely to be beaten to a bloody pulp.

Called the "Bystander effect".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

Nothing new about it. Just sad, really.


Important thing to remember if you ever see a situation like the OP describes is that it is easy to break the effect, by becoming involved. As soon as one person goes to help, several more will follow. If you are unsure ppl will join you, address them personally and ask for their assistance directly.

apparently it helps to look directly at someone and ask them to help. I think they are likely to due to not being able to say "I thought someone else would help" when they've been directly asked.

I would have tried to intervene, though likely to get beaten up as well.

Soon as one person moves to help it normally casues others to follow and help though (probably a guilt thing). It just needs to get one person to get the ball rolling.

A incredibly true statement. It just takes the courage of a few people to inspire others to do the same.

What is it in people that makes them act as though nothing is happenning?

Would you have done anything?

fear. fear that they might turn on you next if you aggrivate them. selfish fear.

and i'd like to think so, but a 'gang of yobs' certanly does sound pretty scary

There were only like four other people on the bus though, so if you tried to help you wouldn't really have an advantage in numbers.

Soon as one person moves to help it normally casues others to follow and help though (probably a guilt thing). It just needs to get one person to get the ball rolling.

It'd probably work really well here in Aus, too. If complete strangers are together on the issue at hand, they'll usually put aside any apparent differences to focus on it. Like at the soccer last Saturday: people from all different classes, races and ideologies were working together to hate on Sydney :)

There were only like four other people on the bus though, so if you tried to help you wouldn't really have an advantage in numbers.

True, but if all the people on the bus confronted the gang, the gang would likely start getting shit scared that so many people were standing up for the girls.

There were only like four other people on the bus though, so if you tried to help you wouldn't really have an advantage in numbers.


And there were only 4 to 5 attackers. Equal numbers except that the other passengers are likely to be adults who should be able to deal with the situation.

If all the other people were all incredibly old and frail then maybe, except there was the bus driver.

There is absolutely no reason or excuse for not getting involved in the situation. The victims were attacked by 4 other kids. How hard is it to pull a teenage kid away from the victim she's stomping?
A teenager was killed in NZ the other day by a group of teenagers who had attacked him and his friends. In a seperate teenager-on-teenager attack, another was hospitalised and will lose sight in one eye due to the attack.
So to say a teenager would be easy to stop is perhaps a little too broad a statement.

Probably what happened is that most ppl ignored it and justified their ignorance viewing the attack as just a bit of typical bullying that happens to teenagers.

And - dare I say it - they may have also been worried that in today's PC world, manhandling a couple of black girls, even in an attempt to stop an attack, would have them accused of racism and being charged with assault.

Well, I am pretty sure I would had made one of two things.

First, I would had tried to convince the biggest and tougher looking guys there to initiate some harsh action on the abusers. With two guys launching themselves against the nazis, I'm pretty sure others would join the fray.

Two, if that don't work, I'd pull out the gun from inside my purse and threat them to either leave, or get a knee cap blasted each.

And there were only 4 to 5 attackers. Equal numbers except that the other passengers are likely to be adults who should be able to deal with the situation.

If all the other people were all incredibly old and frail then maybe, except there was the bus driver.
Well, it's a bit silly to go into a fight expecting that everyone is going to back you up. Anyway, I'm only devil's advocate here. Yes, those people should have intervened.

Two, if that don't work, I'd pull out the gun from inside my purse and threat them to either leave, or get a knee cap blasted each.
Aelosia, you're so hot right now...

Well, it's a bit silly to go into a fight expecting that everyone is going to back you up. Anyway, I'm only devil's advocate here. Yes, those people should have intervened.

I don't expect it, but that is what seems to happen

There were only like four other people on the bus though, so if you tried to help you wouldn't really have an advantage in numbers.According to the story the attackers were four teenage girls and an 11 year old boy or something. If you're scared of a group of five kids, what are you even doing leaving your house?

You like to think you'd help, but you can't tell until you're there. There are all those studies, and cruel real life examples, detailing how unlikely people are to come to someone's help in public. That woman who was raped in the subway train's carriage, the person who was murdered in a public street while a crowd looked on - was that in the 1960s? read about it in a first-year psych textbook, I think.

And equally, there were a spate of stories in the UK media earlier this year about good samaritans intervening in similar situations and being stabbed to death; this sort of cultural climate doesn't help intervention either, like the worries a poster above mentioned about accusations that 'it's just kids being kids, it's not your business.'

So yeah, I hope I'd help, but you can't tell until you're faced with it and have to think and act fast.

Two, if that don't work, I'd pull out the gun from inside my purse and threat them to either leave, or get a knee cap blasted each.

Hmmm... Generally I think that having a gun is an invitation for you to get shot at. But let's leave that for another thread sometime. I still admire your courage.

According to the story the attackers were four teenage girls and an 11 year old boy or something. If you're scared of a group of five kids, what are you even doing leaving your house?
Considering the teenagers were probably older than me... :p

A teenager was killed in NZ the other day by a group of teenagers who had attacked him and his friends. In a seperate teenager-on-teenager attack, another was hospitalised and will lose sight in one eye due to the attack.
So to say a teenager would be easy to stop is perhaps a little too broad a statement.

Probably what happened is that most ppl ignored it and justified their ignorance viewing the attack as just a bit of typical bullying that happens to teenagers.

And - dare I say it - they may have also been worried that in today's PC world, manhandling a couple of black girls, even in an attempt to stop an attack, would have them accused of racism and being charged with assault.
That's one of the nice things about me. I tend to do things without thinking them through too much. Unfortunately it's gotten me in some trouble in the past, but hey, that's life.

Hmmm... Generally I think that having a gun is an invitation for you to get shot at. But let's leave that for another thread sometime. I still admire your courage.

I would prefer not using any weapons as I don't want to seriously hurt anyone and because it is easy to see a situation where it can be turned on you. my view is not to ante up too much otherwise I am likely to regret it.

Aelosia, you're so hot right now...

Well, yes. I carry a gun in my purse. It is a small CZ automatic pistol my father gave to me after something like this happened to me.

I'm still against gun control in my own country paradise. Sadly, I live perhaps in one of the ten most violent "non-war" cities of the world, and involved in a politic movement that have heavily armed and vicious opposers. Thus not in a paradise, so I still need to leave my house packed. And yes, in YOUR country, I am against a free gun carriage. In mine, I have no option but to carry a gun.

And yes, of course I would use the gun to try to scare a group of fucked up bigots trying to beat a pair of little girls. To hell, I'd even fire it and try to maim them as better as possible. If one of them shows enough balls as to jump at me, he'd get one in the bowels, too.

Well, yes. I carry a gun in my purse. It is a small CZ automatic pistol my father gave to me after something like this happened to me.

I'm still against gun control in my own country paradise. Sadly, I live perhaps in one of the ten most violent "non-war" cities of the world, and involved in a politic movement that have heavily armed and vicious opposers. Thus not in a paradise, so I still need to leave my house packed. And yes, in YOUR country, I am against a free gun carriage. In mine, I have no option but to carry a gun.

And yes, of course I would use the gun to try to scare a group of fucked up bigots trying to beat a pair of little girls. To hell, I'd even fire it and try to maim them as better as possible. If one of them shows enough balls as to jump at me, he'd get one in the bowels, too.

and your country is....

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1982223.html?menu=

Hmmm... Generally I think that having a gun is an invitation for you to get shot at. But let's leave that for another thread sometime. I still admire your courage.

Darling. I run a show that is also an invitation for me to get shot at. I say in the public a lot of things that are an invitation for me to get shot at. I do a lot of things that invite people to shot me, that's why I still have to carry the little thing until I get rich enough to pay for an escort and a pair of bodyguards.

According to the story the attackers were four teenage girls and an 11 year old boy or something. If you're scared of a group of five kids, what are you even doing leaving your house?

Oh, pfft? Is that all? Then hell yeah i'd get involved. Here I am assuming actual neo's.

and your country is....

Venezuela.

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1982223.html?menu=
http://www.leehotti.com/images/store/big/pwned.jpg

Darling. I run a show that is also an invitation for me to get shot at. I say in the public a lot of things that are an invitation for me to get shot at. I do a lot of things that invite people to shot me, that's why I still have to carry the little thing until I get rich enough to pay for an escort and a pair of bodyguards.

The problem I've always had with bodyguards is that you can pay for bodyguards with great skill, but can you always pay enough for their loyalty?

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1982223.html?menu=
Reminds me of an interview I saw on TV years ago with Britain's top streetfighter.
He was an enormous mass of a man.
During the interview, he said he was once set upon by 15 or 20 guys in a nightclub.
By the time the Police arrived, half of them had cleared off.
The other half had to be taken to hospital.

Not the sort of guy you wanted to get into a fight with.

You like to think you'd help, but you can't tell until you're there. There are all those studies, and cruel real life examples, detailing how unlikely people are to come to someone's help in public. That woman who was raped in the subway train's carriage, the person who was murdered in a public street while a crowd looked on - was that in the 1960s? read about it in a first-year psych textbook, I think.

And equally, there were a spate of stories in the UK media earlier this year about good samaritans intervening in similar situations and being stabbed to death; this sort of cultural climate doesn't help intervention either, like the worries a poster above mentioned about accusations that 'it's just kids being kids, it's not your business.'

So yeah, I hope I'd help, but you can't tell until you're faced with it and have to think and act fast.

I can tell before I'm there. See first of my posts in this thread as jolt keeps going too slow for me to bother finding it.

Darling. I run a show that is also an invitation for me to get shot at. I say in the public a lot of things that are an invitation for me to get shot at. I do a lot of things that invite people to shot me, that's why I still have to carry the little thing until I get rich enough to pay for an escort and a pair of bodyguards.

Darling, don't patronise me just because I don't agree with your stance on guns.

The problem I've always had with bodyguards is that you can pay for bodyguards with great skill, but can you always pay enough for their loyalty?


You, sire, have a valid point.

Not with money, although. I am pretty sure I can maintain a pair of bodyguards loyal using the means at my disposition.

Darling, don't patronise me just because I don't agree with your stance on guns.

Honey, do not get on the defensive just because I am half in disagree with you.

I can tell before I'm there. See first of my posts in this thread as jolt keeps going too slow for me to bother finding it.


Found it! Jolt's sped up again!

I see what you say, but you're reading about a situation at leisure, and it's an upsetting one; I think it's hard to imagine yourself properly into a real life situation, with all its variables and ambiguities at the _best_ of times, and imagining acurately what you'd do after you read the opening post is even harder.

That said, I don't know you; you could well be one of the minority of people who do act, regardless of the situation. Well done. But for most people, the only real test is when you're really faced with it; talking about it, though, should increase the likelihood of helping when that real situation really happens.

Done it in the past and will continue to do it.

Found it! Jolt's sped up again!

I see what you say, but you're reading about a situation at leisure, and it's an upsetting one; I think it's hard to imagine yourself properly into a real life situation, with all its variables and ambiguities at the _best_ of times, and imagining acurately what you'd do after you read the opening post is even harder.

That said, I don't know you; you could well be one of the minority of people who do act, regardless of the situation. Well done. But for most people, the only real test is when you're really faced with it; talking about it, though, should increase the likelihood of helping when that real situation really happens.

Not sure what you mean by "reading about a situation at leisure"... I certainly don't find it leisurely to read about girls getting beaten up because people were too fucking cowardly or selfish to intervene.

And I have acted before, due to worrying about the kind of thing I mentioned in the first post. So had I posted my message (about knowing what I would do) ages before I'd ever intervened in anything, it would still hold true.

I don't want someone's rape or murder on my conscience because I was selfish or cowardly to intervene.

That's just ridicioulous. They just stood there, acting like nothing was happening, while that girl was getting the ever-living crap beat out of her! I don't care if would've been three against one, I would've done my best to help that girl out, even if it meant me getting the crap beat out of me. No one should just stand there when something like that is happening. What has humanity come to...

Personally, instead of being a white knight, I'd use my cell to (loudly) call for help first, THEN wade in.

Always call for backup and all that. Besides, the idea of police coming may scare them off, or at least make them less likely to hang around trying to kill me and I'm sure someone is going to need medical attention (probably me).

Personally, instead of being a white knight, I'd use my cell to (loudly) call for help first, THEN wade in.

Always call for backup and all that. Besides, the idea of police coming may scare them off, or at least make them less likely to hang around trying to kill me and I'm sure someone is going to need medical attention (probably me).

Oh yes, call for help, while the girls are getting beat up, and with the chance of the skulls getting crushed in. Unless you can get that call in in less than fifteen seconds, put down the damn phone and get to business.

If I was with a group of friends, odds are that we could win. Not alone, though. All that would achieve is getting me beaten up.
Yeah, I'd probably call the cops or report it to the bus driver... but I wouldn't confront them unless I had either other passengers or friends to back me up. I wouldn't stand a chance in a fight.

I would have done something at the very least. I mightn't have been able to stop them but you can't just sit there and let a kid get treated like that.

Ugh. I looked at my big rubber-stamp PWNED again and it's actually rather ugly and obnoxious. Oh well, it seemed like a good idea at the time.
Oh yes, call for help, while the girls are getting beat up, and with the chance of the skulls getting crushed in. Unless you can get that call in in less than fifteen seconds, put down the damn phone and get to business.
Discretion is the better part of valour. It does no one any good if the attackers have three people's heads to kick in rather than two. At least make sure the communications lines aren't cut and help is on the way.

What is it in people that makes them act as though nothing is happenning?

Would you have done anything?

Two damned good questions.

And I'll avoid them both. We had a similar incident in Atlanta a couple weeks back. A transit policeman followed a thug onto a bus, a fight ensued and the spilled out of the bus onto the street. The bus driver has a panic button to push if he feels threatened, but he failed to use it in this instance, even though the policeman was beaten severely.

Oh, the cop was white, the driver and the thug were black. More racism? Or just bigotry? Should the driver go to jail?

Ugh. I looked at my big rubber-stamp PWNED again and it's actually rather ugly and obnoxious. Oh well, it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Discretion is the better part of valour. It does no one any good if the attackers have three people's heads to kick in rather than two. At least make sure the communications lines aren't cut and help is on the way.
No, but sometimes you can start an action and others will join in. It's the herd mentality at work.

Kitty Genovese strikes again...

Hmmm... Generally I think that having a gun is an invitation for you to get shot at. But let's leave that for another thread sometime. I still admire your courage.

It's more of an invitation to get the other guy to say "oh hell, I give up" like happens in something like 99% of the situations in which an armed innocent confronts a criminal.

I actually probably would have done several of the options. I would have used my cell to call 911 (unless they took forever to pick up, in which case I probably would have dialed and then handed it off to someone). Then I would have said something, in hopes that simply being noticed would stop the violence. Then, I would have physically intervened. I most likely could not have stopped the attackers or pulled the victims out, so this probably would have taken the form of smacking at least one of the attackers over the head with something until they stopped what they were doing.

But, when it comes right down to it, inaction when someone is being harmed is nothing new. Ever heard of a girl named Kitty in New York? She was raped and beaten in full view of several apartments. The attacker actually left at one point, realized no help was coming, and then came back for more. She was killed by her injuries. Later, when those who saw the attack were interviewed, most of them said that they didn't call the police because they were sure someone else already had.

Kitty Genovese strikes again...

Well, that answers my question - at least someone has heard of it.

Well, that answers my question - at least someone has heard of it.
I find the entire event fascinating, from a psychological standpoint.

there is a thing i cant remember what its called (i think its named after someone that it happened to) that police have noticed especially when larger amounts of people witness a crime.

a woman was behind her apratment and she was stabbed several times. she screamed as she was stabbed and alot of people saw the actuall crime happening from the building and none of them helped or even called emergency services. they all assumed that someone else who also saw it happen would intervene and help out. while the woman that was stabbed could of lived if they took action she ended up dying that night.

It's more of an invitation to get the other guy to say "oh hell, I give up" like happens in something like 99% of the situations in which an armed innocent confronts a criminal.

Unless of course the criminal also has a gun. Which in any society daft enough to allow access to guns is pretty likely.

Unless of course the criminal also has a gun. Which in any society daft enough to allow access to guns is pretty likely.

Actually no, it isn't. In the vast, vast majority of home invasions in the US, for example, the burglar is rarely armed with anything more than a Swiss Army Knife.

And even at that, if you find yourself staring down the barrel of a gun, even if you're armed, you probably aren't going to do anything, because the other guy has the upper hand.

"You must always stand up for what's right, even when the odds are against you"

I've done nothing before and i'll do nothing again.
The Justice Systems views on Society dosn't accept intervention, the community spirit has gone, cant even smack another persons kids anymore.

I'm no martial-arts expert but I think I can handle four 13 year old kids. I would jump right in. If I was a sworn agent at the DOJ instead of a non-sworn I could flash my badge.

Five little kid attackers, four of them are girls, I'd lay a beatdown they'd feel everytime the weather changes for the rest of their life.

Four guys my size I might be less willing to rush in, but I think my morals would force me to get the shit kicked out of myself to let the victim get away.

I tend to believe I'd physically try to help but if those were 4 skinheads, most chances are that I'd get my ass kicked by them and be sent to hospital for being an over-aggressive-kike.

I tend to believe I'd physically try to help but if those were 4 skinheads, most chances are that I'd get my ass kicked by them and be sent to hospital for being an over-aggressive-kike.

Rabbit punch the biggest one, he drops, odds are they'll pause for a second to decide what to do, that's when you press your advantage. ;)

What is it in people that makes them act as though nothing is happenning?

Would you have done anything?

As to what causes people to not intervene, it's called the "bystander effect." The more people who witness something, the less likely it is that someone will do something about it.

But, when it comes right down to it, inaction when someone is being harmed is nothing new. Ever heard of a girl named Kitty in New York? She was raped and beaten in full view of several apartments. The attacker actually left at one point, realized no help was coming, and then came back for more. She was killed by her injuries. Later, when those who saw the attack were interviewed, most of them said that they didn't call the police because they were sure someone else already had.


Yeah, I read the article about that in English class. Some of the witnesses said things more like "It was late and I went back to sleep."

We studied the case in psychology, too. It's very unfortunate, but it's part of human nature, I guess. I personally would have said something or called for help, but not gotten physically involved, but only because I lack the physical strength to have been of any help at all.

Oh yes, call for help, while the girls are getting beat up, and with the chance of the skulls getting crushed in. Unless you can get that call in in less than fifteen seconds, put down the damn phone and get to business.
*sighs*
1. Knowledge that the police are on their way is usually MORE than enough to get these kinds of people to stop.

2. Knowledge that police are on their way may also get the other passangers to react. It's so much easier to jump a bad when you know the cops are coming to neatly answer the question of "Now what do we do?" when you get them.

3. Someone is going to need medical attention.

4. Hopefully if the cops show up fast enough (or I can sit on them) they'll be charged and get a nice vacation so they can't repeat this for a bit.

And finally, only an idiot charges into battle without some sort of backup. You only do that if you have no choice in the matter because doing otherwise will more than likely get you AND the girl hurt if not killed.

This is so sad and disturbing.

Owing to the fact that I am a very small build female, who is, lacking in physical prowess, I would probably have done more bad than good, intervening physically. However, I would have called the police or pushed other passengers who were more capable to intervene.

Also, don't underestimate teenage girls. I've seen a 13 year old girl thinner than I am hold back five male cops and two male teachers on her own, unaided. They're not defenceless and weak as some might think.

At school I once started a kid five years younger than me for the simple fact that he thought it was funny to draw a swastika on his hand and yell Nazi propaganda. When I asked him about it, he mentioned that he knew the names of all the death camps off by heart.
So I kicked his arse.

In this particular case, I would have gotten involved physically, no doubt. If it had been people my age, it would depend on the sort of support I get. Chances are that on a bus I could get a few people to help me out. Either way, I don't sit idly by when that sort of thing happens.

EDIT: Actually, since fourth grade, the only reason I got into fights with people was about politics and this sort of thing. Funny that.

At school I once started a kid five years younger than me for the simple fact that he thought it was funny to draw a swastika on his hand and yell Nazi propaganda. When I asked him about it, he mentioned that he knew the names of all the death camps off by heart.
So I kicked his arse.

In this particular case, I would have gotten involved physically, no doubt. If it had been people my age, it would depend on the sort of support I get. Chances are that on a bus I could get a few people to help me out. Either way, I don't sit idly by when that sort of thing happens.

EDIT: Actually, since fourth grade, the only reason I got into fights with people was about politics and this sort of thing. Funny that.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/vonbek/mittens.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/vonbek/mittens.gif

yes I would like to say I would have taken on those yobs. Cant let them take over through fear.

http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/display.var.895777.0.screams_ignored_as_girl_12_is_attacked.php



and



This isn't a problem that is confined to London (the inaction of authority figures, official policies to avoid being involved, and the mute immobility of passersby).

What is it in people that makes them act as though nothing is happenning?

Would you have done anything?

I certainly would have involved myself. I don't really get why Jewish people are so unpopular but whatever, there is no possible excuse for this and so yes I would have stopped or attempted to stop them.

I would probably kick some ass. There's no use in waiting for the police in this situation, you gotta take it into your own hand.
Same here... my ancestors were practicing Jews, on both sides, and I even have soome Israeli blood. Must be why I have dark skin. So, anyway, yeah, I sorta take personal offense to that one.

There were only like four other people on the bus though, so if you tried to help you wouldn't really have an advantage in numbers.

There's no need for an advantage in numbers. All the four would have to do would be attacking ONE guy, doing something like attempting to gouge his eye off and watch as the other 3 got the point that they weren't dealing with reasonable folks.

Why do I hear more and more of this kind of thing about the UK nowadays? I hope the Fourth Reich isn't rising in the land of happy charming Englishpeople but, ya know, one might have hoped the same about the land of happy charming Germanpeople at one time.

Important thing to remember if you ever see a situation like the OP describes is that it is easy to break the effect, by becoming involved. As soon as one person goes to help, several more will follow. If you are unsure ppl will join you, address them personally and ask for their assistance directly.

Agreed. I once stepped in to stop two teenage thugs from beating up an Asian couple. No-one was going to do anything but as soon as I stepped in and grabbed one of the little punks, someone else stepped in and grabbed the other.

That's just ridicioulous. They just stood there, acting like nothing was happening, while that girl was getting the ever-living crap beat out of her! I don't care if would've been three against one, I would've done my best to help that girl out, even if it meant me getting the crap beat out of me. No one should just stand there when something like that is happening. What has humanity come to...

+1 million

What is it in people that makes them act as though nothing is happenning?


Urban disconnectedness?

http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/display.var.895777.0.screams_ignored_as_girl_12_is_attacked.php



and



This isn't a problem that is confined to London (the inaction of authority figures, official policies to avoid being involved, and the mute immobility of passersby).

What is it in people that makes them act as though nothing is happenning?

Would you have done anything?


Mr. .357 says: "Leave them alone, or I'll make you a new hole to breath out of."






Does the name 'Kitty Genovesse' come to anyone's mind?

http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/display.var.895777.0.screams_ignored_as_girl_12_is_attacked.php

and

This isn't a problem that is confined to London (the inaction of authority figures, official policies to avoid being involved, and the mute immobility of passersby).

What is it in people that makes them act as though nothing is happenning?

Would you have done anything?

Sure as hell I woulda intervened. I love a good brawl, and especially when I have the moral "high ground". And I'm far too confident to be worried about them having any chance against me.

At school I once started a kid five years younger than me for the simple fact that he thought it was funny to draw a swastika on his hand and yell Nazi propaganda. When I asked him about it, he mentioned that he knew the names of all the death camps off by heart.
So I kicked his arse.
Can't take a joke?

And please Deep Kimchi, spare us your anecdotal bull crap. Anti-Semitism is not a pressing concern in Europe.

Can't take a joke?

And please Deep Kimchi, spare us your anecdotal bull crap. Anti-Semitism is not a pressing concern in Europe.

Especially when two little girls get hospitalized for being Jews.

Especially when two little girls get hospitalized for being Jews.
I could find stuff on Hispanics getting beat up by whites and vice versa in my part of the US. When you look at the bigger picture, though, you realize those are just isolated incidents. People have the bad habit of applying minor occurrences to society as a whole, especially those in the media.

I could find stuff on Hispanics getting beat up by whites and vice versa in my part of the US. When you look at the bigger picture, though, you realize those are just isolated incidents. People have the bad habit of applying minor occurrences to society as a whole, especially those in the media.

Too true. I don't live in Europe, so I don't really know the state of their socital prejudices.

I am just wondering, how many people who replied to this read the article as so many of the posts talk about these people being skinheads.

"The main suspect is described as a mixed race girl aged 14, 5ft 5in tall, with her hair in a side ponytail, and wearing a white top, jeans, a chain and cross.

Two other girls were of mixed race, aged 15. A black girl, 15, and a fifth attacker, described as a small black male, aged 11, are also sought"

Where do yalls get skinhead out of those descriptions?

Yes, I would have tryed to pull atleast one of the attackers off the little girls, but I'm kinda weak. I don't think I could have done much more then that.:(

Yes, I would have tryed to pull atleast one of the attackers off the little girls, but I'm kinda weak. I don't think I could have done much more then that.:(

It's not what you do that matters - it's that you tried

There's no need for an advantage in numbers. All the four would have to do would be attacking ONE guy, doing something like attempting to gouge his eye off and watch as the other 3 got the point that they weren't dealing with reasonable folks.

That is a VERY good point.

My brother was once fighting a kid out of his school. My bro basically twatted him. some of the other guy's family members tried to join in, but every time they attacked my brother, my bro would hurt the guy more and more, even shoving his face in the dirt. The guy's family got the point eventually, most probably after my bro said something like "the more you hit me, the worse I'm gonna hurt him"

It's not what you do that matters - it's that you tried

Dang my poor English and spelling....oh well, I tryed. :D

"My bro basically twatted him."I'm sorry did you mean twitted?