NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm currently reading The Rise and Decline of the Zairian State by Crawford Young and Thomas Turner. A bit dated (published in 1985), but it remains the definitive authority on the former nation of Zaire.

I'm currently reading The Rise and Decline of the Zairian State by Crawford Young and Thomas Turner. A bit dated (published in 1985), but it remains the definitive authority on the former nation of Zaire.

The Arabian Nights or 1,001 arabian nights, a new translation by Husain Haddaway i'm on the story of the second dervish...

This forum, this thread, and this post. :D

This forum, this thread, and this post. :D

LMAO

The Dragon Quartett, Vol II by Marjorie B. Kellogg.

Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix,
Glory Season by David Brin,
and, for reasons having nothing to do with religion, pieces of the New Testament.

the Ramayana

Confessions of a Wall Street Analyst: A True Story of Inside Information and Corruption in the Stock Market

I'm on page 400 of Vanity Fair.

Black, Brown, Yellow, and Left: Radical Activism in Los Angeles, by Laura Pulido.

Just finished Foundation by Isaac Asimov (as if I have to say who it's by) and am currently on Carpe Jugulum by Terry Pratchett and Down Under by Bill Bryson.

Westminster Confession of Faith with a study guide.

Before I started this book, I was trying to read Mere Christianity, but I couldn't get into it. I was surprised, because C. S. Lewis usually holds my interest.

It's Kind of a Funny Story by Ned Vizzini (finishing)
Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte (middle)
rereading parts of Freakonomics by Steven Levitt, Stephen Dubner
sports illustrated, nfl preview edition

Just finished Scaramouche by Rafael Sabatini

Thinking of rereading Teen angst? Nah... by Ned Vizzini or reading A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man by Joyce.

I have to read a ton during summer vacation cause I never find time once school starts, and because it's the end of summer, I am reading a TON. I have to finish reading everything by thursday.:(

Red Mars, By Kim Stanley Robinson.

Inside Windows Server 2003. HEY WAKE UP!

Tragedy of the Faithful. A history of the III. (germanisches) SS-Panzer Korps -- Wilhelm Tieke

A few others.....

Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader - A history of the DPRK and the kim dynasty.

VERY good, very informative book.

Also the Oxford book of ethical theory, or something like that, and started a book called Nomenklatura about the soviet establishment. Also the New Yorker.

This forum, this thread, and this post. :D

Damn you for.. thinking like me!

Last one I read was "Snipers", by Craig Cabell and Richard Brown.

Very good book.

I am reading an ancient, moving, and influential work.
The complete text is below:

Ingredients: Carbonated water and contains 2% or less of each of the following: Natural Flavors, Citric Acid, Potassium Citrate, Potassium Benzoat (Preservative), Calcium Disodium EDTA (To protect flavor), Aecesulfame Potassium, Sucralose (Splenda Brand)

River God: A Novel of Ancient Egypt, By Wilbur Smith

Student essays--which explains why I'm posting, I guess. :headbang:

Student essays--which explains why I'm posting, I guess. :headbang:

I'm sure they hated writing them just as much as you hate reading them.

well, 3 hours of sleep was nice, I am up with a sick kid (again) so I suppose I can post to pass the time.

I am currently reading

a Patricia Cornwell book (don't remember the name of it, it doesn't matter they are all the same)

a book about the book of Esther (you know in the Bible)

Stuart Little (for homeschool)

Harry Potter and The Goblet of Fire (with my kids, like bedtime stories)

The Bible (currently in a precept study of Daniel)

and

a pub 17 update from the IRS for tax year 2007

Student essays--which explains why I'm posting, I guess. :headbang:

Be merciless in your grading. Fail some of them.

I need less competition.

a book about the book of Esther (you know in the Bible)

Out of curiosity, what about it?

Building Red America by Thomas Edsall

Red Mars, By Kim Stanley Robinson.

Good book.

Let me know if you make it through the whole trilogy...

Out of curiosity, what about it?

it's about how to be a strong and beautiful woman.

You know about Esther right?

Esther 4: 9 Hathach went back and reported to Esther what Mordecai had said. 10 Then she instructed him to say to Mordecai, 11 "All the king's officials and the people of the royal provinces know that for any man or woman who approaches the king in the inner court without being summoned the king has but one law: that he be put to death. The only exception to this is for the king to extend the gold scepter to him and spare his life. But thirty days have passed since I was called to go to the king."

12 When Esther's words were reported to Mordecai, 13 he sent back this answer: "Do not think that because you are in the king's house you alone of all the Jews will escape. 14 For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance for the Jews will arise from another place, but you and your father's family will perish. And who knows but that you have come to royal position for such a time as this?"

15 Then Esther sent this reply to Mordecai: 16 "Go, gather together all the Jews who are in Susa, and fast for me. Do not eat or drink for three days, night or day. I and my maids will fast as you do. When this is done, I will go to the king, even though it is against the law. And if I perish, I perish."

New Moon
The shadow of the Hegamon(sp?) and xenoside and speaker for the Dead by orson scott card
the Illiad
The Odossey
The red tent
and a few others

I'm sure they hated writing them just as much as you hate reading them.
Oh, I don't know. They only wrote one each. I'm reading 48. ;)

River God: A Novel of Ancient Egypt, By Wilbur Smith

Another good book!


I haven't picked up anything in about a month or so. Last book was Harry Turtledove's Settling Accounts: The Grapple (which was also very good. The guy threw me for a loop, was expecting it to be another trilogy and there's going to be a fourth one...)

"Chaos, Globalization, and the Public Sphere: Political Struggle in Iraq and Palestine" by Mark LeVine, The Middle East Journal (http://www.mideasti.org/programs/programs_journal.html) (Vol. 60, No. 3, Summer 2006 (http://www.mideasti.org/programs/programs_journal_current.html))

Good book.

Let me know if you make it through the whole trilogy...

Why didn't you finish it?

it's about how to be a strong and beautiful woman.

I see.

You know about Esther right?

Yes. I've read the book several times.

Last book was Harry Turtledove's Settling Accounts: The Grapple

Awesome. One of Turtledove's best. I thoroughly enjoyed that one.

the Ramayana
Have you checked out this? (http://www.ninapaley.com/Sitayana/)

I'm on page 400 of Vanity Fair.

Man, magazines are getting long...
hehe...



I'm not reading anything, but I have Shoot! by Luigi Pirandello (that 'Six Characters..." guy) and The Adventures of Kavalier and Clay by Michael Chabon that I probably should be reading right now. But I'm not.

Yes. I've read the book several times.

what's your take on it? and the use of it to write a "chick empowerment book" (that's what my husband calls them)

Currently reading:

The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King

I intend to finish the complete LOTR beastie before school starts in 18 days.

Pharmacology, 5th Edition
Physical Examination and HistoryTaking, 9th Edition
Medical-Surgical, 10th Edition


For fun:

Why do Men Fall Asleep after Sex? Leyner and Goldberg



:D

Before I started this book, I was trying to read Mere Christianity, but I couldn't get into it. I was surprised, because C. S. Lewis usually holds my interest.


It's not his best work... he makes far to many 'leap of faith' assumptions to hang his 'logic' on, he over-simplifies and assumes strightforward black-and-white answers rather than a spectrum of responses.

To top it all, his approach is nowhere near as fluid and relaxed as some of his other work. All in all - I've never understood why so many seem to consider it his masterpiece.

Digital Fortress by Dan Brown

I'm having a bit of trouble getting drawn into it, though.

what's your take on it?

I'm not sure, to tell the truth. I haven't analyzed it much.

It basically amounts to a reiteration of the tale the Bible tells a dozen times - with faith in God, all persecutions will be eliminated. It also ties in to yet another Biblical lesson - when you fail to follow God's commands (as Saul did when he did not eliminate the Amalekites) bad things happen (like Haman, a descendant of the Amalekites, trying to kill the Jews because of someone from the same tribe as Saul, Mordecai.)

and the use of it to write a "chick empowerment book" (that's what my husband calls them)

Biblical female heroes aren't necessarily docile, and making that point can't hurt. Do you know who Shifra and Puah were?

Digital Fortress by Dan Brown

I'm having a bit of trouble getting drawn into it, though.

I read that... not the best work...

To save you time, do you want to know what happens?;) :D :p

Digital Fortress by Dan Brown

I'm having a bit of trouble getting drawn into it, though.



Thats because it was written by a hack and a shyster.

I read that... not the best work...

To save you time, do you want to know what happens?;) :D :p
Sure. I'm halfway through and not enjoying it. Might as well just tell me.

Thats because it was written by a hack and a shyster.
Don't be so cynical :)

I found 'Deception Point' to be quite good.

Why didn't you finish it?

Well, I found the series highly interesting, but a really dry read. By the time I was about 20% through the last book, I put it down (probably to read something else) and never picked it back up.

I find that's a bit of a recurring theme with Kim Stanley Robinson, at least as far as having 'dry moments'.

You're the one who was reading The Years of Rice and Salt, right? (Incidentally, depsite slower moments, I thought that was a great read.)

Thats because it was written by a hack and a shyster.

You do realize it's a novel right?

You do realize it's a novel right?

Yeah, written by a hack novelist.

"Dan Brown's best selling primer on how not to write an English sentence"

Awesome. One of Turtledove's best. I thoroughly enjoyed that one.

If you're like me, you're both angry and extremely happy that a fourth one is on its way. A very... long... wait. For such a prolific writer, he sure takes his time getting around to the books that I actually want to read!

Now that the Worldwar timeline is done, I haven't found anything else of his other than the southern victory stuff worth fretting over. He's had some good standalones, but I can't get into his fantasy work for some reason.

If you're like me, you're both angry and extremely happy that a fourth one is on its way. A very... long... wait.

Oh, yes. Absolutely.

And leaving us with a cliffhanger like that... simply vile.

I'm reading two books at the moment:

- The Worst Hard Time, by Timothy Egan
- The Reality Dysfunction, by Peter F. Hamilton

The Complete and collected works of Steven king, but only because I need a good bed time story. :D

Illuminatus trilogy
The Bear went over the Mountain: Soviet Combat Tactics in Afganistan
The Other Side of the Mountain: Mujahideen Combat Tactics in Afganistan

Jingo by Terry Pratchett.

I'm reading Carpe Jugulum by Terry Pratchett and The pot of gold and other plays by Plautus (Watling translation).

Steal this Book

'Peace Kills' by PJ O'Rouke - still not sure if he is that right wing or is taking the piss

I'm currently reading The Rise and Decline of the Zairian State by Crawford Young and Thomas Turner. A bit dated (published in 1985), but it remains the definitive authority on the former nation of Zaire.
Official War History, New Zealand Volumn Two Italy, Cassino to Trieste.
90 odd pages into it, the book is 500 pages.
Last Campaign Book i own.

Jingo by Terry Pratchett.

Thats a good one.

Carpe Jugulum by Terry Pratchett

So is that one.



Currently, Im re-reading "The Preacher", vol 2, "Till the end of the world."

i'm reading God Won't Save America: Psychosis of a Nation by George Walden
and next on me list is Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond

Just check the sig. :)

The alphabet of Manlinesss by Maddox. Without a doudt the greatest book that ever has and will be.

Illuminatus trilogyNothing like a good mind trip. Fun read. Good luck.

Currently, I'm reading handy-dandy MSReader formats of:

Oath of Swords by David Weber
Two Treatises of Government by John Locke

Absolution Gap by Alastair reynolds

Marley and Me. Im a 38 year old mans man and this book will make you cry like a baby. If i told you that its about a story of a man and his dog you would yawn and never read it. Very few books have caused me to get stopped in a mall 2x by people in 30 minutes just to note what i was reading and to tell me what a great book it was. Its a fairly short read and you will cry.

Well, I found the series highly interesting, but a really dry read. By the time I was about 20% through the last book, I put it down (probably to read something else) and never picked it back up.

I find that's a bit of a recurring theme with Kim Stanley Robinson, at least as far as having 'dry moments'.

You're the one who was reading The Years of Rice and Salt, right? (Incidentally, depsite slower moments, I thought that was a great read.)

Yeah. I do have to agree with you though. There are LONG sprawls of dry moments in his books. But the, un-dry (?) moments are excellent. YoRaS was definetly more action-packed than Red Mars, but Red Mars has a lot more ethical concerns in it.

The Logic of Scientific Discovery by Karl Popper

Animal Man by Grant Morrison

The Complete Western Stories of Elmore Leonard by Elmore Leonard

And Kim Stanley Robinson's "Colors of Mars" trilogy is just awesome. Ridiculously well-researched and totally fascinating. I read the whole thing once a year and I always get something new out of it.

Natural Value by Friedrich von Wieser.

I'm not sure, to tell the truth. I haven't analyzed it much.

It basically amounts to a reiteration of the tale the Bible tells a dozen times - with faith in God, all persecutions will be eliminated. It also ties in to yet another Biblical lesson - when you fail to follow God's commands (as Saul did when he did not eliminate the Amalekites) bad things happen (like Haman, a descendant of the Amalekites, trying to kill the Jews because of someone from the same tribe as Saul, Mordecai.)
yeah, I find it interesting that it's the only book of the Bible that doesn't mention God by name.


Biblical female heroes aren't necessarily docile, and making that point can't hurt. Do you know who Shifra and Puah were?
yeah, they were pretty important. I really like the story I can never remember her name, anyway it ends up that she nails a guy to the ground with a tent stake through his head.........it's a pretty good story. :p

yeah, they were pretty important. I really like the story I can never remember her name, anyway it ends up that she nails a guy to the ground with a tent stake through his head.........it's a pretty good story. :p

That would be Jael killing Sisera, no?

That would be Jael killing Sisera, no?

yes sir, you are correct. I knew there would be someone who knew what the hell I was talking about........figured it would be you ;)

The whole story is pretty good, not just the ending though.

I'm halfway through both Orwell's Homage to Catalonia and a compiliation of Lovecraft inspired short stories by various authors, but they've both been put on hold in face of piling up uni work.

Red Mars, By Kim Stanley Robinson.


And Kim Stanley Robinson's "Colors of Mars" trilogy is just awesome. Ridiculously well-researched and totally fascinating. I read the whole thing once a year and I always get something new out of it.

Yep. That's a brilliant series. I really enjoyed them.

I was reading "A Brief History of Time" by Stephen Hawking, but I'm pretty sure I left it on the bus or in Starbucks :( I'm also reading "Reaper Man" by Terry Pratchett, and "Day of the Triffids" by John Wyndham.

yes sir, you are correct. I knew there would be someone who knew what the hell I was talking about........figured it would be you ;)

The whole story is pretty good, not just the ending though.

I spent some time studying (well, the whole book... but I'm being specific, here) the important women in scripture. Israel is saved when a woman fights Abimelech (a 'type' of the David and Goliath story, perhaps)... and Deborah 'rules' as a Judge, which makes me wonder why so many 'christian' ministries have a problem with the idea of women priests...

I'm inclined to the belief that, collectively, women get a pretty crappy deal out of the scripture... usually, they arecast as either whore or demoness... but they do have a few high points... Esther, Jael, Deborah, etc

I've just recently finished with Kingdom Coming by Michelle Goldberg and am about to start reading Selected Nonfictions of Jorge Luis Borges.

I spent some time studying (well, the whole book... but I'm being specific, here) the important women in scripture. Israel is saved when a woman fights Abimelech (a 'type' of the David and Goliath story, perhaps)... and Deborah 'rules' as a Judge, which makes me wonder why so many 'christian' ministries have a problem with the idea of women priests...

I'm inclined to the belief that, collectively, women get a pretty crappy deal out of the scripture... usually, they arecast as either whore or demoness... but they do have a few high points... Esther, Jael, Deborah, etc
it comes a lot from listening to Paul and taking everything he says as literal instruction for people right now, instead of his own personal commentary on things that went on a long time ago.

ignorant people don't seem to understand how to read things and figure out what they are about. ;)

Just recently read Memnoch the Devil by Ann Rice, which was a waste of time. I was waiting for the end most of the book. Just a really dry read.

Umm, my reading has slowed of late due to trouble finding good material, but the entire Dune series, through Chapterhouse Dune is among my more recent projects. Also, Michael Crichton and Stephen King are authors I keep up with. I've read everything Orson Scott Card has to offer, and still drool for more. Some R.A. Salvatore, and Scott Turow's "Ordinary Heroes," which was incredible.

Also, another recent fantasy read was the Endymion series, although I can't remember who the author was. I stumbled onto it, and it was incredible.

Umm, my reading has slowed of late due to trouble finding good material, but the entire Dune series, through Chapterhouse Dune is among my more recent projects.

Meh. I would finish that series, but since Frank died befored he could finish it, I think it would just leave me hanging indefinetly. And I definetly don't want to read the crap his son is spewing out.

it comes a lot from listening to Paul and taking everything he says as literal instruction for people right now, instead of his own personal commentary on things that went on a long time ago.

ignorant people don't seem to understand how to read things and figure out what they are about. ;)

Maybe... maybe it's just that. But, I'm more cynical, I guess. I'm more inclined to believe things are the way they are because certain people LIKE them that way, and don't want to lose their perceived 'power'.

Maybe... maybe it's just that. But, I'm more cynical, I guess. I'm more inclined to believe things are the way they are because certain people LIKE them that way, and don't want to lose their perceived 'power'.

true, but if you can use Paul as an excuse, why the hell not?

besides, it's not like I don't have atheists on one side saying "you shouldn't take the Bible literally, it's stupid" and then saying almost in the same breath "this is what I don't like about Christianity" and using Bible verses in a literal sense to bitch about it. :rolleyes: and then they whine to me about how Christians are hypocrites.

Meh. I would finish that series, but since Frank died befored he could finish it, I think it would just leave me hanging indefinetly. And I definetly don't want to read the crap his son is spewing out.

Yah, thats why I stopped at book 7. And agreed, his son is garbage. The quality started slipping at about book 5 of the Dune Chronicles, if I remember correctly. Interminable dialogue took the place of action. Bah, damn Charles Dickens for inspiring authors with his cluttered writing.

- A biography of Raymond Chandler (I forget the author's name)
- Raymond Chandler's The Lady in the Lake
- Guadalcanal (I forget the author's name)
- A volume of essays on the American Revolution

I have a couple of books on philosophy coming in the mail, too ...

:D

true, but if you can use Paul as an excuse, why the hell not?

besides, it's not like I don't have atheists on one side saying "you shouldn't take the Bible literally, it's stupid" and then saying almost in the same breath "this is what I don't like about Christianity" and using Bible verses in a literal sense to bitch about it. :rolleyes: and then they whine to me about how Christians are hypocrites.

I'm inclined to agree. Paul is the voice of choice... just an easy place to find a lot of material that can suit certain agendas, and put the stamp of '100% Scriptural' on the label.

I think Atheists get caught in a bit of a trap, to be honest... an Atheist might be trying to debate scripture, or be trying to debate 'god'... and they can (to the Atheist) be two entirely unrelated arguments. On the other hand, to many Christians, you just can't debate scripture without debating 'god'... because of the whole idea that the text is literally divinely inspired on a word for word basis.

At the risk of trivialising... it would be like debating the story elements of Helm's Deep... where one of the two debators believes the Lord of the Rings to be an accurate history... the two sides would not be arguing 'equally'.

I'm inclined to agree. Paul is the voice of choice... just an easy place to find a lot of material that can suit certain agendas, and put the stamp of '100% Scriptural' on the label.

I think Atheists get caught in a bit of a trap, to be honest... an Atheist might be trying to debate scripture, or be trying to debate 'god'... and they can (to the Atheist) be two entirely unrelated arguments. On the other hand, to many Christians, you just can't debate scripture without debating 'god'... because of the whole idea that the text is literally divinely inspired on a word for word basis.

At the risk of trivialising... it would be like debating the story elements of Helm's Deep... where one of the two debators believes the Lord of the Rings to be an accurate history... the two sides would not be arguing 'equally'.

yeah, I think really I can seperate the two better than any other Christian that I know, but it comes from helping hubby with his seminary homework and doing a lot of apologetics, it's easy for me to see how things get twisted up, but really atheists just annoy me sometimes, they don't know enough about what they are talking about to get into a debate and then when you point that out they get all pissy. whatever. :rolleyes: (If you can't tell I am in a heated debate elsewhere with "one of those") :p

yeah, I think really I can seperate the two better than any other Christian that I know, but it comes from helping hubby with his seminary homework and doing a lot of apologetics, it's easy for me to see how things get twisted up, but really atheists just annoy me sometimes, they don't know enough about what they are talking about to get into a debate and then when you point that out they get all pissy. whatever. :rolleyes: (If you can't tell I am in a heated debate elsewhere with "one of those") :p

Hopefully, not all atheists fall into this 'annoy me' and 'don't know enough about what they are talking about' category. :)

The important thing to remember is that each side in those debates 'knows' something the other doesn't... and it informs the debate.

I think it's great that you can 'step aside' enough to be objective about the debate. Many can't... and I don't just mean the Christian/Atheist debate... far too often, what is termed debate, is actually two factions yelling their opinions at one another.

Hopefully, not all atheists fall into this 'annoy me' and 'don't know enough about what they are talking about' category. :)

The important thing to remember is that each side in those debates 'knows' something the other doesn't... and it informs the debate.

I think it's great that you can 'step aside' enough to be objective about the debate. Many can't... and I don't just mean the Christian/Atheist debate... far too often, what is termed debate, is actually two factions yelling their opinions at one another.

there are two or three around here that don't fit the mold, but other than that they all pretty much annoy me, I try not to let it show.;)

Umm, my reading has slowed of late due to trouble finding good material, but the entire Dune series, through Chapterhouse Dune is among my more recent projects. Also, Michael Crichton and Stephen King are authors I keep up with. I've read everything Orson Scott Card has to offer, and still drool for more. Some R.A. Salvatore, and Scott Turow's "Ordinary Heroes," which was incredible.
The entire Dune series? Impressive. I couldn't bring myself to read any more after book four. Oh, and is that the same Scott Turow who wrote One L?

Also, another recent fantasy read was the Endymion series, although I can't remember who the author was. I stumbled onto it, and it was incredible.
Dan Simmons is the author. Great books. :)

Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader - A history of the DPRK and the kim dynasty.

VERY good, very informative book.

Excellent. Where can I find it?

Be merciless in your grading. Fail some of them.

I need less competition.

I always benefitted from merciless grading....




On-topic:

The Platonic Dialogues and The Art of War

there are two or three around here that don't fit the mold, but other than that they all pretty much annoy me, I try not to let it show.;)

I think we'd all get along much better, if more people were able to realise that, just maybe, half of what we 'know', might just be what we 'think'.

I think we'd all get along much better, if more people were able to realise that, just maybe, half of what we 'know', might just be what we 'think'.
yeah, that is so true. I try to explain to people that what I know about God doesn't jive so well with what I know about the world, and that I am quite aware of my delusion, but really it's nice for me, so I really don't want to be talked out of it.

that really doesn't make sense to a lot of people.

yeah, that is so true. I try to explain to people that what I know about God doesn't jive so well with what I know about the world, and that I am quite aware of my delusion, but really it's nice for me, so I really don't want to be talked out of it.

that really doesn't make sense to a lot of people.

Makes complete sense to me. The way I 'think' the world is, is a way that doesn't 'require' a higher power... that doesn't mean there isn't one (or more)... and I certainly think it would be folly for me to claim that I KNOW there is no god.

I am aware that my perception MIGHT not reflect 'reality' entirely accurately, but it is the way that 'works' for me.

Well.. it seems I actually have to read something..

I think it's called.. um.. The Devil and something.. Walker.

Well.. it seems I actually have to read something..

I think it's called.. um.. The Devil and something.. Walker.

The Devil and Daniel Webster?

The Devil and Daniel Webster?

The Devil and Tom Walker

Just googled it.

Bah. School provided books...Bah! Surely someone has written something better for school than Catcher in the Rye by now, right?

The Devil and Tom Walker

Just googled it.

Just watch The Devil in Miss Jones (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0069969/). It's more or less the same thing.

Bad advice is my specialty.

The Devil and Tom Walker

Just googled it.

Hadn't heard of that one. The Devil turns up a good deal in the 19th century. Then, I guess ... What's the line from The Usual Suspects? "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing people he didn't exist."

Just watch The Devil in Miss Jones (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0069969/). It's more or less the same thing.

Bad advice is my specialty.

:p ... though I have to admit I was a little disappointed by the production. Still, the ending was perfect.

Excellent. Where can I find it?


http://www.amazon.com/Under-Loving-Care-Fatherly-Leader/dp/0312323220/sr=8-1/qid=1157491686/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-3223239-0915117?ie=UTF8&s=books