NationStates Jolt Archive

Also known as 'Europe's 'Civil War' and 'That one war where the British did the charge thing, y'know, with the Russians'.
I find it interesting that (at least in the US) there is so little interest in such a critical event. Perhaps its because our own Civil War overshadows it, although the Franco-Prussian War doesnt get much mention either, but anyway...

I find it interesting that the majority of the people who DO know about it seem to think it was a one-sided victory and ignore the events that took place outside of the Black Sea. Most history books dont even mention the Baltic or Pacific Theatre (which the Russians did quite well in), and also generally fail to mention the huge allied casualties. You tend to hear lots of stuff about massive Russian casualties at the hands of the British.
Of course this is true, but perhaps not so much as many people seem to think. The importance of the French, Turks and Sardinians seems to have been lost to history.
A quick Google search on the Crimean War (for me at least) turned up a few sites with names along the lines of 'The Crimean War Research Society', all of which seem to be located in the UK, and dedicated to British units, they make few mentions of the other states involved.
You would think the French would at least get some mention, since the Crimean War was the last large war they managed to do well in :P[/obligatory French joke]
And the whole Charge of the Light Brigade thing...really, why do people seem to think it was so great? Two British idiots who hate each other, one of them decides to ignore the other or the other doesnt give the right order, and suddenly a bunch of guys on horses decided to ride down a valley lined with cannons.
Then, a hundred and fifty years later, everybody decides that theyre heros because their commander was an inbred git who had no buisness being in the military. All praise to the 1850's British military and its letting people buy rank!

Ah well, anybody else have something to say? :)

You would think the French would at least get some mention, since the Crimean War was the last large war they managed to do well in :P[/obligatory French joke]


The stuff I read awhile back mentions them.

Better prepared for this war then England.

Better marching formations, better gear(the 3 piece tent)...

Pretty grusome setting. I remember one guy writing that when there was time to write letters, they would stack a few dead Russians to make a desk.

Harmonia Mortus Redux;11632046']And the whole Charge of the Light Brigade thing...really, why do people seem to think it was so great? Two British idiots who hate each other, one of them decides to ignore the other or the other doesnt give the right order, and suddenly a bunch of guys on horses decided to ride down a valley lined with cannons.
Then, a hundred and fifty years later, everybody decides that theyre heros because their commander was an inbred git who had no buisness being in the military. All praise to the 1850's British military and its letting people buy rank!
I always thought that poem ("The Charge of the Light Brigade") was about the futility of war and heroism, sort of like Metallica's "Disposable Heroes", but more subtle.

The stuff I read awhile back mentions them.

Better prepared for this war then England.

Better marching formations, better gear(the 3 piece tent)...

Pretty grusome setting. I remember one guy writing that when there was time to write letters, they would stack a few dead Russians to make a desk.

Oh yes, they get a mention. Most 'official' sources (books on the subject) say that the French came along to cheer the English on, just as the Turks were there to run away and the Sardinians werent.

The stuff I read awhile back mentions them.

Better prepared for this war then England.

Better marching formations, better gear(the 3 piece tent)...

Pretty grusome setting. I remember one guy writing that when there was time to write letters, they would stack a few dead Russians to make a desk.

This, I must admit, has always confused me. The French forces in the Crimea, though numerically smaller than the British, were responsible for more victories in battle and inflicted more casualties on the Russians, by most estimates. The only guy to disagree was some Lord or other (can't think of his name off the top of my head). Of course, it's HIS estimates that most english language histories of the time use.

France also was responsible for the lion's share of the logistics. Under the (admittedly superb) protection of the Royal Navy, French cargo ships supplied the allied armies very well, for the time.

I always thought that poem ("The Charge of the Light Brigade") was about the futility of war and heroism, sort of like Metallica's "Disposable Heroes", but more subtle.

I don't agree. I think it was paen to heroism - but not the heroism of the idiot commanders. I think he was speaking of the heroism of the common cavalrymen who, in the face of unbelieveable odds and severe casualties, nevertheless did as ordered. "Theirs not to question why, theirs but to do and die..." it's a powerful piece.

I always thought that poem ("The Charge of the Light Brigade") was about the futility of war and heroism, sort of like Metallica's "Disposable Heroes", but more subtle.

*cries*

I dont think anyone would ever compare Tennyson to Metallica.

I think history is obviously not being taught anymore.

*cries*

I dont think anyone would ever compare Tennyson to Metallica.

I think history is obviously not being taught anymore.

It's quite easy. Actually, Iron Maiden's song "The Trooper" is based on the very same poem. See, metal isn't a bunch of retards screaming! Well, most is actually, but a few aren't!

I always thought that poem ("The Charge of the Light Brigade") was about the futility of war and heroism, sort of like Metallica's "Disposable Heroes", but more subtle.

Kipling's The Last of the Light Brigade (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Last_of_the_Light_Brigade) and Tommy (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Tommy)* are much better.


*Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy how's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

This, I must admit, has always confused me. The French forces in the Crimea, though numerically smaller than the British, were responsible for more victories in battle and inflicted more casualties on the Russians, by most estimates. The only guy to disagree was some Lord or other (can't think of his name off the top of my head). Of course, it's HIS estimates that most english language histories of the time use.

It seems that this sort of thing happens a lot in conflicts the British are involved in. Look at WWI, a comparativly small number of men on the ground, but whenever people think of WWI, they think of those tommy helmets and assorted British (or American, sad to say) soldiers running around in no mans land.
Pretty much the same thing happened in the Napoleonic Wars, it was Russia (though many argue that it was Russia itself, not the nation,) that beat Napoleon, but who's been getting the credit since the Crimean War?
Yeah.

Im wondering of Kane (C&C) was involved in the British government at some point, y'know, that whole 'He who controls the past, controls the future' thing :P

I remember seeing a documentary on this in the History Channel; all I remember is that in the end, Russia's influence in Europe sank quite a bit (or am I thinking of a different war)

The basic purpose of the war (for the British, at least) was to wipe out the Russian Navy, which was a threat to their influence in the Medditerranian. I cant remember why the French were dragged along, but I think the Sardinians were allied to one of them.
The war started because the Russians were making a drive on Constantinople, which blocked their access to the Aegean, because according to a treaty nobody could send warships through the Straits of Marama, although the Russians and Ottomans had a secret clause in a treaty which stated that the Ottomans would allow the Russians access through the straits in times of war. That, of course didnt work out :P

The Austrians: "We will amaze the world with our ingratitude". Francis Joseph fails the Holy Alliance and does not back Russia, thus making sure that Central Europe is not a likely battleground. Also got the Russians out of Moldavia and Wallachia, which basically was a stab in the back of it's erstwhile ally.

I've forgotten his name (it's been a decade since I studied this stuff!) but there was an elderly British General, whom being a bit senile, kept saying "We will attack the French here..." at every strategy meeting. Surely the best example of using a brilliant tactical mind in the most obtuse way possible.

The power that turned the tide of the war? Mighty Piedmont!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piedmont