NationStates Jolt Archive

I expect to get flamed with this post, but I'm feeling particularly frustrated tonight with the state of world affairs, and what our country is doing, so I'm going to post to let my feelings out. I am also aware the tone of the post is rather flamey as well, and I usually try to avoid that as much as possible. I'm sorry in advance. My brother is a Marine (though not currently deployed outside the country), so I do have a pretty strong emotional connection with what is going on, and don't want him hurt, or dead, and I have told him some of my feelings on this.

I'm damn tired of seeing those yellow ribbons on cars everywhere. What does it mean to "Support The Troops", and why should I do that? I don't support the war, and those people signed up and went of their own free will. They could have said no. They could have told their officers to stuff it, that they are not going to let themselves die over some goddamn lie, in a country on the other side of the world. They could have done whatever they could to not go. They could have not signed up to begin with.

Will they feel all good inside, when an explosion leaves them dying on the ground, knowing that I think they are super? Will they be happy killing some guy who is just as deluded as they are?

They chose to be there, and the war is a sham. They should be home with their families, working, going to school, going out with their sweeties, or anything, but not at war.

Why should I "Support The Troops"?

If it is a matter of wanting to protect us, they should join the National Guard and stay home, become a policeman, or a firefighter. Start a business, or charity, and donate money to people who need it.

If you really want to devote your life to your country, don't throw it away for a lie. We need you here.

:(

I'm too gay to serve.

I'd post here to show you my support, but I'll just be told by all the hawks hereabouts to stfu 'cause I'm not an American. But rest assured, there's Dobbs in your corner for you, Donkey Kongo.

I'd post here to show you my support, but I'll just be told by all the hawks hereabouts to stfu 'cause I'm not an American. But rest assured, there's Dobbs in your corner for you, Donkey Kongo.

and some guy you've never heard of named pyotr!:p

seriously though, I think griping and bad-mouthing the troops is an asshole of a thing to do. The yellow ribbon patriotism is another story, especially when they equate "anti-iraq war" with "Anti-american" or "anti-troop".

I must say I'm confused by the whole yellow ribbon thing, because I see them so often on cars which also sport Bush stickers. Sending the message that you support our military and are also in favor of war seem to be slightly contradictory; as if a felon said he supported the police, or if an arsonist said he supported firefighters.

They could have said no. They could have told their officers to stuff it, that they are not going to let themselves die over some goddamn lie, in a country on the other side of the world. They could have done whatever they could to not go.

You do understand what happens if you don't go, right? You go to jail, and then you get a dishonorable discharge. With such a discharge you'll be lucky to work at McDonalds for the rest of your life. You can talk about principles all you like, but I'd personally rather spend 1 year in Iraq than the rest of my life from the age of 22 flipping burgers.

You are aware that not everyone in the Army right now signed up during the war, right? I enlisted in July of 2000, so I didn't really expect there to be a war until I went to Iraq in 2003. However, I went because, first off, I agreed to when I signed up. Secondly, I went because I didn't want my friend in my unit going through that bullshit alone. Thirdly I went because I don't really want to work for minimum wage until I die. Being a 17 year old kid I didn't really have a proper grasp as to what war was, and at the time war was the furthest thing from anyone's mind.

Why did I enlist, you may ask? My family's combined income was in the low $20,000s, and I couldn't afford college. If I hadn't spent my time in the military I would never have been able to afford to go to college, as I am now, and I would probably still be working at the KFC in my tiny little farm town in Michigan.

Oh, and the National Guard don't stay home. Roughly 40% of the troops in Iraq are Guardsmen.

Anyway, the troops over there aren't fighting for some sort of ideal, like you seem to think they are. They're there because they were given a legal order to go there by the duly elected civilian leadership. If the military were to make decisions on things like this it would go against every bit of tradition we have, which states that the civil power is always superior to the military power. And since we're responsible for that civil power it's our fault they're there, and that's why you should support them. If nothing else you can feel bad that they're there and do whatever you can to bring them home. Again, it's not their fault that they're over there, it's ours for electing the people who sent them.

Not fulling supporting the american troops, no matter where in the world you are = full blown support for any and all terrorists anywhere in the world.

I have friends and family in teh military and I support them being alive. I support them being home and I support them being happy and healthy. I can do this while not supporting the war or supporting their fight in the war. I do hope that the Iraqis can take back their country and shape it in whatever way they like free from radical islam but i'm afraid that our war has most likely made that impossible.

-snip-

I suppose I can see your point.

...however, it is pretty sad that we live in a country where a 17 year old kid, who hasn't even lived a year out of highschool, had no other choice but to join the army to support himself and his family, and that the only choice you would have, were war declared, would be between going to war or living in poverty.

17 isn't old enough at all. I'm even more depressed.

I expect to get flamed with this post, but I'm feeling particularly frustrated tonight with the state of world affairs, and what our country is doing, so I'm going to post to let my feelings out. I am also aware the tone of the post is rather flamey as well, and I usually try to avoid that as much as possible. I'm sorry in advance. My brother is a Marine (though not currently deployed outside the country), so I do have a pretty strong emotional connection with what is going on, and don't want him hurt, or dead, and I have told him some of my feelings on this.

I'm damn tired of seeing those yellow ribbons on cars everywhere. What does it mean to "Support The Troops", and why should I do that? I don't support the war, and those people signed up and went of their own free will. They could have said no. They could have told their officers to stuff it, that they are not going to let themselves die over some goddamn lie, in a country on the other side of the world. They could have done whatever they could to not go. They could have not signed up to begin with.

Will they feel all good inside, when an explosion leaves them dying on the ground, knowing that I think they are super? Will they be happy killing some guy who is just as deluded as they are?

They chose to be there, and the war is a sham. They should be home with their families, working, going to school, going out with their sweeties, or anything, but not at war.

Why should I "Support The Troops"?

If it is a matter of wanting to protect us, they should join the National Guard and stay home, become a policeman, or a firefighter. Start a business, or charity, and donate money to people who need it.

If you really want to devote your life to your country, don't throw it away for a lie. We need you here.

:(
Shhhh, you're thinking independently. Now wear the yellow star-- I mean ribbon, or we'll put you in a camp.

Hah. Telling your officers to 'stuff it' is not an option in the military. Well, it sort of is, but, as Wallonochia said, the other option is jail, and even the death penalty (hasnt been used for a while though, as far as I know). Its better to go.
As to people 'signing up to go there', many signed up before the war began, some even had to serve past their term.

Sure, some people are assholes about it, and I dont object to your not supporting the troops, but when it comes to the Vietnam-style spitting on the returning troops and similar...that is just wrong. I havent seen it yet, and Im not going to try to predict my reaction, but I think it would range from yelling to physical violence.
Call it extreme, but your opinion is yours and mine is mine.

BTW, shouldn't they tell you what the army is? It is a organization created for war... and shouldn't they show you what war is? Any vet can tell you, "War is Hell."

They should have told a 17 year old kid that he could be signing his life away to them. I'd much rather be flipping burgers than bleeding to death.

BTW, shouldn't they tell you what the army is? It is a organization created for war... and shouldn't they show you what war is? Any vet can tell you, "War is Hell."

They should have told a 17 year old kid that he could be signing his life away to them. I'd much rather be flipping burgers than bleeding to death.
Yeah, but shooting people is so much more fun...

Seriously, though, the Army is one of the worst job options out there. The health insurance is nowhere near sufficient for the kinds of things you risk. The pay is crap. National Guard would be okay if they weren't currently being deployed to Iraq.

I support the troops. I just don't support the incompetents in government sending them off to get killed needlessly.

Sun Tzu said one of the first preparations to winning a war is to make sure you are fighting a just war, otherwise the finest men and equipment won't matter in the long run. Afghanistan was a just war until attention and resource was diverted to avenging Daddy's honor in Iraq; now the Taliban is slowly making a comeback. And Iraq? The results so far speak for themselves.

A 'just war' is an incredibly subjective thing. Was the Civil War just? It wound up killing over 600,000 Americans, decimating communites all across the country. Surely there was a better way to maintain national unity?

BTW, shouldn't they tell you what the army is? It is a organization created for war... and shouldn't they show you what war is? Any vet can tell you, "War is Hell."

They should have told a 17 year old kid that he could be signing his life away to them. I'd much rather be flipping burgers than bleeding to death.

At the age of 17 a lot of kids don't really comprehend what a war means. I certainly didn't. It's one thing to know it intellectually, but it's completely different from actually having firsthand experience. Also, a lot of kids have a very romanticized (and quite false) idea of what fighting a war is like.

Seriously, though, the Army is one of the worst job options out there.

There are worse ones. I could have not joined the Army and made $5.45/hr at KFC, or I could have joined the Army and netted $1700/month and when I decided to get out and go to school I could get $1184/month for 36 months.

Also, when you're not in a combat zone the Army is actually a very fun job.

There are worse ones. I could have not joined the Army and made $5.45/hr at KFC, or I could have joined the Army and netted $1700/month and when I decided to get out and go to school I could get $1184/month for 36 months.

Also, when you're not in a combat zone the Army is actually a very fun job.
Yeah, but I'm talking in present tense. Right now, if you join the Army, you are almost guaranteed to get sent off to Iraq or Afghanistan, and there aren't a lot of totally safe areas there-- even the Green Zone gets hit by mortars.

My support for the troops extend only as far as we support them coming home to the U.S, alive and NOW.

I'd also support injured veterans to getting the treatment they need to reconstruct their lives.

I expect to get flamed with this post, but I'm feeling particularly frustrated tonight with the state of world affairs, and what our country is doing, so I'm going to post to let my feelings out. I am also aware the tone of the post is rather flamey as well, and I usually try to avoid that as much as possible. I'm sorry in advance. My brother is a Marine (though not currently deployed outside the country), so I do have a pretty strong emotional connection with what is going on, and don't want him hurt, or dead, and I have told him some of my feelings on this.

I'm damn tired of seeing those yellow ribbons on cars everywhere. What does it mean to "Support The Troops", and why should I do that? I don't support the war, and those people signed up and went of their own free will. They could have said no. They could have told their officers to stuff it, that they are not going to let themselves die over some goddamn lie, in a country on the other side of the world. They could have done whatever they could to not go. They could have not signed up to begin with.

Will they feel all good inside, when an explosion leaves them dying on the ground, knowing that I think they are super? Will they be happy killing some guy who is just as deluded as they are?

They chose to be there, and the war is a sham. They should be home with their families, working, going to school, going out with their sweeties, or anything, but not at war.

Why should I "Support The Troops"?

If it is a matter of wanting to protect us, they should join the National Guard and stay home, become a policeman, or a firefighter. Start a business, or charity, and donate money to people who need it.

If you really want to devote your life to your country, don't throw it away for a lie. We need you here.

:(
thats assuming you are all knowing,and know it was a lie..other then that..your a schill for the left..i dont presume,as you do..that i have the answers and truth...
for all i know..it was a war for oil and our kids are dying to make bush and company rich...or it is a war of ideals,the west verse east.....i dont fucking know..but i am certain you dont...so take your du bullshit elsewhere...and to the repugs...take yours elsewhere as well...all i know...is...i support my troops...period..right or wrong..just like the dems think the war is about oil..in respect of your opinion,but i dont have the luxury of being passive.

simple fact is..people are dying..for oil..maybe..but dont pretend to know the truth...cause none of us know it.

thats assuming you are all knowing,and know it was a lie..other then that..your a schill for the left..i dont presume,as you do..that i have the answers and truth...
for all i know..it was a war for oil and our kids are dying to make bush and company rich...or it is a war of ideals,the west verse east.....i dont fucking know..but i am certain you dont...so take your du bullshit elsewhere...and to the repugs...take yours elsewhere as well...all i know...is...i support my troops...period..right or wrong..just like the dems think the war is about oil..in respect of your opinion,but i dont have the luxury of being passive.

simple fact is..people are dying..for oil..maybe..but dont pretend to know the truth...cause none of us know it.[my bold]
You support the troops right or wrong? How about the Haditha massacre? Do you support their actions there?

You do understand what happens if you don't go, right? You go to jail, and then you get a dishonorable discharge. With such a discharge you'll be lucky to work at McDonalds for the rest of your life. You can talk about principles all you like, but I'd personally rather spend 1 year in Iraq than the rest of my life from the age of 22 flipping burgers.

You are aware that not everyone in the Army right now signed up during the war, right? I enlisted in July of 2000, so I didn't really expect there to be a war until I went to Iraq in 2003. However, I went because, first off, I agreed to when I signed up. Secondly, I went because I didn't want my friend in my unit going through that bullshit alone. Thirdly I went because I don't really want to work for minimum wage until I die. Being a 17 year old kid I didn't really have a proper grasp as to what war was, and at the time war was the furthest thing from anyone's mind.

Why did I enlist, you may ask? My family's combined income was in the low $20,000s, and I couldn't afford college. If I hadn't spent my time in the military I would never have been able to afford to go to college, as I am now, and I would probably still be working at the KFC in my tiny little farm town in Michigan.

Oh, and the National Guard don't stay home. Roughly 40% of the troops in Iraq are Guardsmen.

Anyway, the troops over there aren't fighting for some sort of ideal, like you seem to think they are. They're there because they were given a legal order to go there by the duly elected civilian leadership. If the military were to make decisions on things like this it would go against every bit of tradition we have, which states that the civil power is always superior to the military power. And since we're responsible for that civil power it's our fault they're there, and that's why you should support them. If nothing else you can feel bad that they're there and do whatever you can to bring them home. Again, it's not their fault that they're over there, it's ours for electing the people who sent them.
+1

Not fulling supporting the american troops, no matter where in the world you are = full blown support for any and all terrorists anywhere in the world.

hope that was sarcasm..if not..sigh..

..but dont pretend to know the truth...cause none of us know it.

Doesn't that bother you? Our mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, best friends, are all being sent to die, and we can't even be sure why.

I support the troops. I just don't support the incompetents in government sending them off to get killed needlessly.

Sun Tzu said one of the first preparations to winning a war is to make sure you are fighting a just war, otherwise the finest men and equipment won't matter in the long run. Afghanistan was a just war until attention and resource was diverted to avenging Daddy's honor in Iraq; now the Taliban is slowly making a comeback. And Iraq? The results so far speak for themselves.
as much as it sickens me..i have to agree.

A 'just war' is an incredibly subjective thing. Was the Civil War just? It wound up killing over 600,000 Americans, decimating communites all across the country. Surely there was a better way to maintain national unity?

damn..you just made sense

Not fulling supporting the american troops, no matter where in the world you are = full blown support for any and all terrorists anywhere in the world.

Hm... you were being sarcastic, no? Please.

No flaming here mate, you are on the ball.

Once upon a time supporting the troops meant sending care packages and letters and such, not just giving money to the war effort.

And well.. leaving troops to die in a war that shouldnt have started and no one has the balls to finish is hardly supporting them!

but I will stop there.. like you I am used to being tarred and feathered lol

Cheers
Kristy

I expect to get flamed with this post, but I'm feeling particularly frustrated tonight with the state of world affairs, and what our country is doing, so I'm going to post to let my feelings out. I am also aware the tone of the post is rather flamey as well, and I usually try to avoid that as much as possible. I'm sorry in advance. My brother is a Marine (though not currently deployed outside the country), so I do have a pretty strong emotional connection with what is going on, and don't want him hurt, or dead, and I have told him some of my feelings on this.

I'm damn tired of seeing those yellow ribbons on cars everywhere. What does it mean to "Support The Troops", and why should I do that? I don't support the war, and those people signed up and went of their own free will. They could have said no. They could have told their officers to stuff it, that they are not going to let themselves die over some goddamn lie, in a country on the other side of the world. They could have done whatever they could to not go. They could have not signed up to begin with.

Will they feel all good inside, when an explosion leaves them dying on the ground, knowing that I think they are super? Will they be happy killing some guy who is just as deluded as they are?

They chose to be there, and the war is a sham. They should be home with their families, working, going to school, going out with their sweeties, or anything, but not at war.

Why should I "Support The Troops"?

If it is a matter of wanting to protect us, they should join the National Guard and stay home, become a policeman, or a firefighter. Start a business, or charity, and donate money to people who need it.

If you really want to devote your life to your country, don't throw it away for a lie. We need you here.

:(

I'm not American but agree with you.

Heard there are bumper stickers going round saying ' I support our troops more than you'!

I'd post here to show you my support, but I'll just be told by all the hawks hereabouts to stfu 'cause I'm not an American. But rest assured, there's Dobbs in your corner for you, Donkey Kongo.
This is getting ridiculous. I've never been silenced for not being American.

hope that was sarcasm..if not..sigh..

Hm... you were being sarcastic, no? Please.


I....



*leaves thread with a lot less respect for people*

Personally I don't see how saying "Support the Troops" is really any different from saying "Support our Brutal Imperialist Military Occupation". So I don't think I'll support either.

I'm too gay to serve.

You're also too young to serve.

Most of the people fighting and dying joined up for the money for college. It's just conscription of the poor, nothing more nothing less. Notice how rich folks never go to war unless they volunteer?

Regardless of wether you agree with the war or not you should support our troops, it's not their fault their commander in chief is a fucking moron.

The best way to support the soldiers in Iraq is to campaign for their return.

Not fulling supporting the american troops, no matter where in the world you are = full blown support for any and all terrorists anywhere in the world.

I hope you're being sarcastic.

Because that's a supremely stupid thing to say.

The US creates terrorism by pissing people off and blowing them up, that's how the whole thing works.

If you come back to find your house destroyed by an occupier, with your relatives' limbs scattered in the garden, clearly you are going to be cheesed off.

If your mates then become "collateral damage" a short while later, then it's time to take action, no?

And when you've got nothing left at all, what's unappealing about strapping a bomb to yourself and killing anyone you can find that supports your invaders?

It's an understandable thing to do. It might not be nice, but I can see why it happens, and the sooner the US government does as well, the better.

Because it's not "radical Islam" that creates suicide bombers, it's there simply being nothing left for people that makes them want to live, and the targets being easily available, and relatively easy to harm, at the same time as ending the tragedy that is your current life.

No?

I hope you're being sarcastic.

Because that's a supremely stupid thing to say.

The US creates terrorism by pissing people off and blowing them up, that's how the whole thing works.

If you come back to find your house destroyed by an occupier, with your relatives' limbs scattered in the garden, clearly you are going to be cheesed off.

If your mates then become "collateral damage" a short while later, then it's time to take action, no?

And when you've got nothing left at all, what's unappealing about strapping a bomb to yourself and killing anyone you can find that supports your invaders?

It's an understandable thing to do. It might not be nice, but I can see why it happens, and the sooner the US government does as well, the better.

Because it's not "radical Islam" that creates suicide bombers, it's there simply being nothing left for people that makes them want to live, and the targets being easily available, and relatively easy to harm, at the same time as ending the tragedy that is your current life.

No?

I agree with almost all of what you're saying, but dinnae do a Cherie Blair and conflate western notions of 'the meaning of suicide' with other culture's meanings. Tragedy~misery~depression is one explanation for suicide, but I wonder how relevant to a suicide bomber, and the culture that surrounds them.

I expect to get flamed with this post, but I'm feeling particularly frustrated tonight with the state of world affairs, and what our country is doing, so I'm going to post to let my feelings out. I am also aware the tone of the post is rather flamey as well, and I usually try to avoid that as much as possible. I'm sorry in advance. My brother is a Marine (though not currently deployed outside the country), so I do have a pretty strong emotional connection with what is going on, and don't want him hurt, or dead, and I have told him some of my feelings on this.

I'm damn tired of seeing those yellow ribbons on cars everywhere. What does it mean to "Support The Troops", and why should I do that? I don't support the war, and those people signed up and went of their own free will. They could have said no. They could have told their officers to stuff it, that they are not going to let themselves die over some goddamn lie, in a country on the other side of the world. They could have done whatever they could to not go. They could have not signed up to begin with.

Will they feel all good inside, when an explosion leaves them dying on the ground, knowing that I think they are super? Will they be happy killing some guy who is just as deluded as they are?

They chose to be there, and the war is a sham. They should be home with their families, working, going to school, going out with their sweeties, or anything, but not at war.

Why should I "Support The Troops"?

If it is a matter of wanting to protect us, they should join the National Guard and stay home, become a policeman, or a firefighter. Start a business, or charity, and donate money to people who need it.

If you really want to devote your life to your country, don't throw it away for a lie. We need you here.

:(
You can't fault the soldiers for signing up in the first place. No matter what people say, we... well, I suppose America, since I'm not American... needs a military. Almost every country needs a military. Even if Iraq is not in the interests of the defense of the nation, the troops joined up under the belief that they would defend the nation. People becoming policemen or firefighters are all very well, but to defend against a real military you need your troops. That the soldiers are there throwing their lives away over a falsely prosecuted war is all the more reason to support them.

I agree with almost all of what you're saying, but dinnae do a Cherie Blair and conflate western notions of 'the meaning of suicide' with other culture's meanings. Tragedy~misery~depression is one explanation for suicide, but I wonder how relevant to a suicide bomber, and the culture that surrounds them.
I was simply using a term that most people would understand, I know that the views on the matter will be different everywhere :)

I hope you're being sarcastic.

Because that's a supremely stupid thing to say.

The US creates terrorism by pissing people off and blowing them up, that's how the whole thing works.

If you come back to find your house destroyed by an occupier, with your relatives' limbs scattered in the garden, clearly you are going to be cheesed off.

If your mates then become "collateral damage" a short while later, then it's time to take action, no?

And when you've got nothing left at all, what's unappealing about strapping a bomb to yourself and killing anyone you can find that supports your invaders?

It's an understandable thing to do. It might not be nice, but I can see why it happens, and the sooner the US government does as well, the better.

Because it's not "radical Islam" that creates suicide bombers, it's there simply being nothing left for people that makes them want to live, and the targets being easily available, and relatively easy to harm, at the same time as ending the tragedy that is your current life.

No?


Terrorist!

Terrorist!
Call me whatever you like, I'm empathising with freedom fighters, for sure, but I don't really support their aims in most cases.

Call me whatever you like, I'm empathising with freedom fighters, for sure, but I don't really support their aims in most cases.
... :rolleyes:

Why did I enlist, you may ask? My family's combined income was in the low $20,000s, and I couldn't afford college. If I hadn't spent my time in the military I would never have been able to afford to go to college, as I am now, and I would probably still be working at the KFC in my tiny little farm town in Michigan.

Oh, and the National Guard don't stay home. Roughly 40% of the troops in Iraq are Guardsmen.
What a terrible reason for joining the army. Imagine if the US had invested $300 Billion into post secondary education rather than dropping bombs and using bullets to kill innocent Iraqis and destroying their country.

I was simply using a term that most people would understand, I know that the views on the matter will be different everywhere :)

Fair point! Just need to exersize caution in transliterating cultural mores (as it were), though :)

You can't fault the soldiers for signing up in the first place. No matter what people say, we... well, I suppose America, since I'm not American... needs a military. Almost every country needs a military. Even if Iraq is not in the interests of the defense of the nation, the troops joined up under the belief that they would defend the nation. People becoming policemen or firefighters are all very well, but to defend against a real military you need your troops. That the soldiers are there throwing their lives away over a falsely prosecuted war is all the more reason to support them.
All the more reason to bring the troops home.

... :rolleyes:
Use whatever term you like for them.

The US calls them terrorists, insurgents or freedom fighters depending on which ones it's supporting and where they are.

If a group attacked Chavez today, they'd be "freedom fighters", if people were attacking soldiers in Iraq, they'd be "insurgents" and if they attacked actual US soil, regardless of their motive, they'd be "terrorists".

Fair point! Just need to exersize caution in transliterating cultural mores (as it were), though :)

Yes, sorry, I'll be a bit more careful in the future :)

"freedom fighters"... :rolleyes:

It's an interesting point, though. You're some poor schlub in your poor schlub country and foreigners come and blow bits of it up, install those guys down the road you never liked as your new leaders, and in the process kill your friends and neighbours (does it matter if it's by accident or not?).

If Edinburgh was shot to shit, people I know killed, _Glaswegians_ (spits) put in charge, and all the time I'm told by a bunch of foreigners that it's all for my own good... wouldn't there be some justification for me to fight back? If you want to include a parallel to the religious fanaticism, in Scotland we have the Declaration of Arbroath - "for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself." Stirring stuff, lends itself to use and misuse easily - could use it to justify a lot.


It's convincing people that you were right to turn their world upside down that's the sticking point.

At this point in time, supporting the troops is often lumped in with supporting the war, but the troops are in it for an entirely different reason.

It seems to me that poor people are often faced with a difficult decision - join the military or live a life on the streets or whatever. I'll take a situation of a young man about to finish high school in an inner city. Maybe he's a bright kid; it doesn't matter so far because his classes haven't done anything to bring that out in him. So he has two choices.

Don't join the military - it means getting a low-paying job that can barely support oneself, let alone a family, and advancement is limited if there is any at all
Join the military - it pays for college at the low, low price of doing what the government says for four years

In 2000, that's a great deal. The GI Bill covers your college expenses. It means you can do anything you want. But what's this? The Twin Towers just fell, and all of a sudden the President wants to invade Iraq! You're off to war, son. You didn't bargain for this.

Tell your superiors to piss off - a lengthy jail sentence and a dishonorable discharge, PLUS life on the streets again. Low-paying jobs, no advancement, and a lot of disrespect. And if you have a family, it's even worse.
Go to war - well, I hope you come out alive; a couple of thousand Americans haven't.

And what happens in war? People die, of course.

You die - you die. Game over. Thanks for playing. We know your mom has to bury you and we don't care. Now move along.
You get injured - well, maybe not so bad. It might limit some things you can do, but you're likely on your way home. If you can support yourself without that leg you lost, great; if not, we hope you like being homeless.
You make it through - you live to fight another day. Then you can come home and be spit on and have rocks thrown at you. And you better not come out and say you served; that's probably a liability in your ability to network around college campuses and potential job markets.

So from here, there are two paths.

It doesn't work - I imagine this is the more likely scenario, but you leave the Army with an honorable discharge, and then what? No one hires you, and you go back to living on the streets. All this effort, and you still lose.
It works - congratulations, you survived the Army and you managed to make a better life for yourself. You're one of the token few who make it through to inspire others to give their lives. You win a cookie, redeemable in the year 875,000 AD.

I don't support the troops, there I said it. No just kidding I do. Most of those kids were poor and only joined for money or to go to college. I can respect that they would put their lives on the line to have a better life. Its not their fault their leaders make bad choices and send into unneeded wars. And they really don't have a choice once they sign up since if they dont do what they have to, they will get punished. So you can disagree with the war, but leave the troops out of it.

I don't support the American troops, nor do I support the Iraqi troops.

Americans can enjoy their weird ass emotional-porn like yellow ribbons and 9/11 t-shirts all they want. I don't care much.

I don't support the American troops, nor do I support the Iraqi troops.

Americans can enjoy their weird ass emotional-porn like yellow ribbons and 9/11 t-shirts all they want. I don't care much.

do you support your country's military?

do you support your country's military?

We don't have a military.

I'm too gay to serve.

is it true that youre not allowed to be gay in the us army?

here is an example of why I feel sorry for the troops. This is what a friend told me today about her brother that was in a bomb blast in Kuwait yesterday. he was in the hospital but they discharged him, even though he should've stayed for 48 hrs. his forearm is ok, but the rest of his arm and across his chest is all black and blue. he has a full body whiplash. he has to take a bus back to kuwait. all his personal belongings are gone, they got burned in the vehicle he was in. his partner that was also in the vehicle had no shoes so they sent him away with these funky shoes. neither of them have any papers or anything.

We don't have a military.

are you costa rican?

I don't support "the troops". (Nevermind the fact they're not 'mine' to begin with). I have no qualms in saying that either.

People saying "I don't support the war, but I support the troops" are invariably afraid of being labelled a traitor or unpatriotic- and it's a joke.

"I support our troops in that I hope they don't get killed" ? Please. You might as well say "I hope no one dies in the world".

are you costa rican?
I'd say Icelandic.

People saying "I don't support the war, but I support the troops" are invariably afraid of being labelled a traitor or unpatriotic- and it's a joke.

I call bullshit. People invariably afraid of being labeled unpatriotic traitors get with The Program whether they agree with it or not. People saying "I support the troops but now the war" are trying to say this:

People die in war. It's inevitable. But it's a necessary cost when the principles behind that war are worthwhile, such as in the case of Afghanistan. A repressive ultrafundamentalist regime was sheltering a terrorist mastermind, violating the rights of its populace and on top of that was destroying culture and history out of puritannical arrogance. And they refused to turn over Bin Ladin. So a housecleaning was in order. Troops died, but it was for a cause that nobody can argue about.

Not in the case of Iraq. Dear Leader diverted important resources and attention from rebuilding post-Taliban Afghanistan to avenge Daddy's Honor by deciding to invade a mostly neutered ex-prison bitch dictator of the United States' by declaring all sorts of allegations that were proven false, then falling back on the ever disingenuous "liberating the oppressed people" canard as a last resort. Very disingenuous considering the same United States put Saddam Hussein into power decades ago via the CIA and overlooked his brutalities as long as they were aimed at Fundamentalist Iran.

And what did we get out of Shock and Awe in Baghdad? An Iraq that has become World of Jihadcraft where n00b t3rr0riztz can gain skill and XP they can later put to use on more sensitive targets. An Iraq that has a frail shell of democracy founded on hindsight and isn't spreading much further than the Green Zone. An Afghanistan where the Taliban was almost completely wiped out but is now making a steady comeback because of the diverted resources and attention. And most significant of all, a steady trickle of American troops being killed or crippled on a daily basis.

When the war has an irrefutable justification, sending our troops in to risk getting killed is necessary. When it doesn't have one, it becomes a wasteful and tragic exercise in hubris.

A point to remember is that the average squaddie on the ground doesn't have a say in where he goes- he signed that right away on accepting the King's Shilling when he joined up.

There is an important distinction between supporting the men and women putting their lives on the line for defence of their country- even if that isn't their current role, and supporting the military action that the troops are involved in.

is it true that youre not allowed to be gay in the us army?

No.

The official policy is "Dont ask, dont tell."

People saying "I don't support the war, but I support the troops" are invariably afraid of being labelled a traitor or unpatriotic- and it's a joke.

Screw that.

I dont support the war, in fact, am rather vocal against it.

I do however, support the troops.
They are real people, with real families. most of these guys are kids, trying to earn money for college, or family men who were serving in the National Guard, when thier units got activated.

I dont give a fuck wether anyone calls me "Unpatriotic".

That doesnt mean Im willing to support an entirely unethical war based on securing oil reserves, and using the lame exscuse of "Providing Democracy".

I do however, support the troops.
They are real people, with real families. most of these guys are kids, trying to earn money for college, or family men who were serving in the National Guard, when thier units got activated.


Great.
But I still don't know what that means. I support them in the fact they're people and I don't wish death upon them? Fine. I support every human being in that respect.

I don't have to support the job they're doing.

Nor does my support have to be indefinite, spanning all operations until the end of time a la whether right or wrong they're our troops and we'd better support them.

In the right circumstance (i.e. Afghanistan) I'd support their actions.
But that doesn't transfer on to all other actions (i.e. Iraq or Grenada).


I call bullshit.

Fine. I'm only saying I've noticed a trend over the past several years (particularly closer to 9/11 and the uber-patriotism that inspired).

I'd say Icelandic.

I though they had a tiny military force but just not regulars

thats assuming you are all knowing,and know it was a lie..other then that..your a schill for the left..i dont presume,as you do..that i have the answers and truth...
for all i know..it was a war for oil and our kids are dying to make bush and company rich...or it is a war of ideals,the west verse east.....i dont fucking know..but i am certain you dont...so take your du bullshit elsewhere...and to the repugs...take yours elsewhere as well...all i know...is...i support my troops...period..right or wrong..just like the dems think the war is about oil..in respect of your opinion,but i dont have the luxury of being passive.

simple fact is..people are dying..for oil..maybe..but dont pretend to know the truth...cause none of us know it.

Sorry man but what sort of thinking is that? 'I support my troops right or wrong' what if it is wrong, what if in a few years time it was proved wrong.


Would you knowingly support something that was wrong out of what some form of twisted patriotism?
How is this any differant from the mode of thought that makes normal people want to blow themselves up for their faith?

Why should I "Support The Troops"?

If it is a matter of wanting to protect us, they should join the National Guard and stay home, become a policeman, or a firefighter. Start a business, or charity, and donate money to people who need it.

If you really want to devote your life to your country, don't throw it away for a lie. We need you here.

:(

The National Guard gets sent to Iraq too. It's all an indication of how badly Bush is screwing up the US military.

Simply telling officers to "stuff it," isn't an option for most enlistees. And I don't just mean because they'd go to military prison, or the fact that such an action still carries the death penality (desertion).

The military puts huge effort into brainwashing people to go when called. Some of them literally can't form the question of whether or not to fight when called. Just look at some of the stuff that Eutrusca says.

Many can't stomach the idea of their more figurative brothers being left to fight and die without them. This is why there was a spike in the voluntary re-enlistment numbers for a while. You've got four friends, one of them is told "you can go home now," he looks at his 3 friends and says "no thanks." Then in the coming months so do the other 3. When 2 or 3 of those 4 die and the soldier who's told he can go home looks at 2 or 3 strangers, then he might decide to go home. That's why the Marines have had to start up the involuntary recall orders now.

Plus, most of them signed up before they knew how badly they were going to be used. And many still think that this war was legal and morally justified. They just don't have the information that they need to make this decision. Hell, plenty of military people still think that Clinton caused 9/11.

I though they had a tiny military force but just not regulars

Icelandic, yes. And no, not even a tiny military. We've got a coast-guard tho.

"Support our coast-guards" doesn't quite have the same ring to it...