NationStates Jolt Archive

A philosophical questions for the forums. (The question is in bold down the bottom for those who don't want to read all of the crap).

For a very long time I have enjoyed crushing others. This sadistic enjoyment of the destruction of others is mainly derived from the personality disorders I suffer HPD (Histrionic personality disorder) and NPD (Narcissistic personality disorder). That being said, long before I recieved a diagnosis, I have improved greatly some of the more destructive aspects of these disorders. Namely (relevant to the topic) I have had success repressing the need to hurt others for my own enjoyment.

When I used to go out and look for people to destroy, I now have managed to get it to the point wherein I wait to be agressed. This had made the act no less enjoyable, just less frequent. Remember, doing this is the height of power and glory for me. It is comparable to cackling like a madman whilst having sex atop a mountain peak during a thunderstorm. I initially decided to control it because it became apparent that it was controlling me. It was begining to dominate my life and my decisions. So with a lot of work I have managed to get it how it is now.

However, as some of you may know, I am learning chinese, and I have a chinese girlfriend. As I believe JiangGuo put it "When you learn Chinese, you learn a lot more than a language". He was most accurate, however I have also been exposed to a lot of chinese cultre through my girlfriend and her family. What I have found is a growing attraction to the chinese adoration of modesty and restraint. Quotes like "He who does not compete cannot be competed with" (Lao Tse), and ideaologies like 'smiling Tiger' (Do not betray you motives and capacities, instead be a smiling tiger) are philosophically very alluring.

Here's the rub. I really enjoy superiority and destroying others. A lot. It brings me endless glee to crush underlings. While I like the idea of being humble and restrained, I fear I will not like the practice. I anticipate I would be miserable, pretending to be normal. Also, for now, let us assume it is within my capabilities to attain. Would I discover a hidden enjoyment of modesty? Or is that just not the point, am I supposed to sacrifice hedonistic enjoyment for a greater sense of fulfillment. Is it worth it, seeing as the hedonism doesn't cause me trouble any more? Which is more valuable; Hedonism and enjoyment, or modesty and restraint?

So I put it to the forums, should I continue optimising my hedonism so as to maximise enjoyment whilst ensuring it does not consume me, or should I endevour to rid my self of it's presence entirely, and aim for a less enjoyable but more meaningful existence?
Thanks for taking the time to help me with this philosophical dichotomy. Here have this cookie. *gives cookie*

You should stop dating a Chinaman, their Phirosophy is corrupting your mind...

Release your need for domination healthily. By competition.

Well, see, here's the key: you're crushing others. That is, you are hurting others to give yourself pleasure. I have no problem with hedonism. Do all you want...but my limit is where you begin to hurt another for your own gain. That, my friend, is something one should avoid at all cost. Thusly, I must advise you to take whatever steps necessary to avoid further harming of others.

Hmm, but the thing is I don't care about other (Well, I do in principle, but not in reality. I need a reason why it would be better for me.

Also, She isn't a 'Chinaman', she's a 'Chinababe'. :p

Yes, stop now. Asshole.

Yes, stop now. Asshole.
Heh heh. A past victim?

Hmm, but the thing is I don't care about other (Well, I do in principle, but not in reality. I need a reason why it would be better for me.

Also, She isn't a 'Chinaman', she's a 'Chinababe'. :p

Alright: look at it as a way of securing future opportunities. You never know when that one person you avoided hurting could come back to you with something great. Business opportunities, friendships, connections, all come to those who are nice to others, not to those who are incessently cruel. In other words, it's an investment.

In the end, it's all hedonism. If you give up instant gratification of earthly desire for spiritual fulfillment, you do it because it makes you feel good.

Alright: look at it as a way of securing future opportunities. You never know when that one person you avoided hurting could come back to you with something great. Business opportunities, friendships, connections, all come to those who are nice to others, not to those who are incessently cruel. In other words, it's an investment.
Hmm, this makes sense. Better to have friends that you disdain, than enemies you disdain.

Well, see, here's the key: you're crushing others. That is, you are hurting others to give yourself pleasure. I have no problem with hedonism. Do all you want...but my limit is where you begin to hurt another for your own gain. That, my friend, is something one should avoid at all cost. Thusly, I must advise you to take whatever steps necessary to avoid further harming of others.

Agreed.

In the end, it's all hedonism. If you give up instant gratification of earthly desire for spiritual fulfillment, you do it because it makes you feel good.
See this is what I'm thinking. Though I have no intention of doing anything for 'spiritual' reasons.

Hmm, this makes sense. Better to have friends that you disdain, than enemies you disdain.

Asshole.

Hmm, this makes sense. Better to have friends that you disdain, than enemies you disdain.

Exactly. And, in the bargain, it keeps you from hurting people. Everybody wins.

...well...there's always that girl covered in spaghetti...but no one cares about her...

Exactly. And, in the bargain, it keeps you from hurting people. Everybody wins.

...well...there's always that girl covered in spaghetti...but no one cares about her...
Or that kid covered in Creamy Double chocolate cake, but he was asking for it...

Asshole.
Hehehee. I'm lovin this. Is this because of something I did to you, or just my kind of person?

Hehehee. I'm lovin this. Is this because of something I did to you, or just my kind of person?

You wish. If you're really as you describe, then you're an asshole.
And a troll.

Ouch. Though at least I am an honest asshole who is looking at reform. :p Seriously, when have I trolled? I take it you've recently had some trouble with an asshole. Did they also have NPD or HPD, or did they just have AssholePD? :p

You wish. If you're really as you describe, then you're an asshole.
And a troll.
You know, you'd probably like me. These days I'm only an arsehole to those who ask for it.

Now how will you give me my cookie?

Asshole.

That's the second time you've used this pejorative. Knock it off. You can express your displeasure without namecalling.

Now how will you give me my cookie? quote the op, and you'll get it at the end.

That's the second time you've used this pejorative. Knock it off. You can express your displeasure without namecalling.
My heroine! :fluffle: I was just about to puke up my dinner in despair before you arrived.

So, youve mentioned that you take pleasure at destroying those who you view as lesser that you, or inferior.
My question to you is:

How exactly do you do this, and if you realize what kind of person these kinds of actions make you, how comfortable are you with that?

So, youve mentioned that you take pleasure at destroying those who you view as lesser that you, or inferior.
My question to you is:

How exactly do you do this, and if you realize what kind of person these kinds of actions make you, how comfortable are you with that?
Invariably it is by embarrasing the subject, preferably publically, always by intellectual (Or at least arguementative) dominance. Very rare is the circumstance when I actually 'do' something. I have on occasion sttoped to practical jokes, or mess, but never violence. I loathe (e or no e?) violence. I am not really affected by the way these action influence the way people percieve me (I argue that I am not made into less of a person, some may just see it that way). Also, these days I only do it to those who agress me first. As such, in days past most agreed I was an unfriendly person, whereas these days most do not. Those that do are usually public jokes.

You strike me as someone who is a legend in thier own mind. I doubt anyone else here is as nearly as impressed with you as you. If this post is indicitive of the superior mind then my responce is a resounding yawn. Im guessing your also young. Arrogance comes easier to people that lack the perspective of age and experience.

My heroine! :fluffle: I was just about to puke up my dinner in despair before you arrived.

So, you win, because I got mod-slapped for calling you what you are. Winning was also the point of your post, thereby making it a troll. /quit

Invariably it is by embarrasing the subject, preferably publically, always by intellectual (Or at least arguementative) dominance. Very rare is the circumstance when I actually 'do' something. I have on occasion sttoped to practical jokes, or mess, but never violence. I loathe (e or no e?) violence. I am not really affected by the way these action influence the way people percieve me (I argue that I am not made into less of a person, some may just see it that way). Also, these days I only do it to those who agress me first. As such, in days past most agreed I was an unfriendly person, whereas these days most do not. Those that do are usually public jokes.


The reason I asked you that stuff, was to see what kind of response you would give.

More specifically, wether or not you would attempt to downplay the whole thing, and try to tell me that you are really a good person.

You did a bit of both.

This tells me two things:

1. You realize this behaviour isnt acceptable.

2. You desire to be thought of positvely.

This means that you probably arent a total douchebag.
It also means that you arent beyond help either.

I say take the Asain Zen thing, and find more constructive ways of feeling good about yourself.

You strike me as someone who is a legend in thier own mind. I doubt anyone else here is as nearly as impressed with you as you. Im guessing your also young. Arrogance comes easier to people that lack the perspective of age and experience.
I suppose, it is an inherent trait in NPD (Illusions of granduer). Though in reality I usually live up to my standards. How shall I say, I overestimate myself, yet I am still quite capable. I very much doubt anyone here is impressed, because I am not trying to impress anyone. This is why i am being so honest. I would not dare show my hand off like this in reality. I am actually looking for some opinions. I understand that by admitting such arrogance i am likely to tick off people like IQH, but honesty is required for this thread to have a purpose.

I am young, 20, though I don't get arrogance from a lack of perspective, I get it from a personality disorder.

So, you win, because I got mod-slapped for calling you what you are. Winning was also the point of your post, thereby making it a troll. /quit Hey, who's trolling? Relax. But you didn't answer my question, "why are you so bitter?" At least I am being honest, and considering reform.

The reason I asked you that stuff, was to see what kind of response you would give.

More specifically, wether or not you would attempt to downplay the whole thing, and try to tell me that you are really a good person.

You did a bit of both.

This tells me two things:

1. You realize this behaviour isnt acceptable.

2. You desire to be thought of positvely.

This means that you probably arent a total douchebag.
It also means that you arent beyond help either.

I say take the Asain Zen thing, and find more constructive ways of feeling good about yourself.

Thanks for the tip. But I was kind of looking for a motive. I already hold my self in high esteem, and would only consider taking this step for that reason if I could somehow expect to hold my self in higher esteem. I sense I am missing the point of humility...*sigh*

Thanks for the tip. But I was kind of looking for a motive. I already hold my self in high esteem, and would only consider taking this step for that reason if I could somehow expect to hold my self in higher esteem. I sense I am missing the point of humility...*sigh*

I think its not just humility that you lack.

I think humility is only a part of it, but without speaking to you at length, I couldnt say much more than that.

My first instinct is to say that your likely a very complicated person.
One the one hand, you enjoy belittling those who you feel superior to.

On the other, Im guessing this may also be from a secret part of you that feels very insecure, and this part may even be hidden from you.

You are sick, and you need treatment. It could be the literal meaning of treatment, or the mafia meaning of treatment. Both could work.

I think its not just humility that you lack.

I think humility is only a part of it, but without speaking to you at length, I couldnt say much more than that.

My first instinct is to say that your likely a very complicated person.
One the one hand, you enjoy belittling those who you feel superior to.

On the other, Im guessing this may also be from a secret part of you that feels very insecure, and this part may even be hidden from you.
I did away with insecurity some time ago (around the same time I did away with randomly belittling others, it was a step in doing so). I would love to hear your criticism, I am currently learning to take it well, and it is always useful. TG if you aren't comfortable posting, otherwise I have msn or skype.

You are sick, and you need treatment. It could be the literal meaning of treatment, or the mafia meaning of treatment. Both could work.
Ah yes, but treatment is so time consuming, and I'm already half-cured. The proper treatment for NPD and HPD is 2-4 years therapy. Stuff that. I am having good enough success alone. Besides anyone who has ever been to psych-treatment will lose a great deal of respect for the system. Philosophically, do you agree with the idea of hedonism, or humility? Also, if you could, give reasons why your choice is better than the other).

I did away with insecurity some time ago (around the same time I did away with randomly belittling others, it was a step in doing so). I would love to hear your criticism, I am currently learning to take it well, and it is always useful. TG if you aren't comfortable posting, otherwise I have msn or skype.

Sadly, my time is very short.
But I will get back to you on this.

For now, take notice of this:

I did away with insecurity some time ago (around the same time I did away with randomly belittling others, it was a step in doing so).

The more sure with yourself you became, the less you felt the need to take this kind of action.

As for criticism, I dont think I need to.
You already know that picking on stupid people, or people less mentally equipped than you makes you a douche.
But, you make several mentions that you are making at least some effort to change this, and here you are asking the opinions of strangers on NS.

This tells me that you want people to think highly of you.

If others opinions matter to you, then perhaps you arent as narcissistic as you might think.

I think you know your problem, and are on the right track to becoming a better person.

The real question seems to be :

"Do I really want to be a better person?"

I cant answer that for you.

Life is like the cord of a violin. If you let it too loose, it won't be tuned, if you tight it too much, it won't be tuned and risks to be broken.

That's all I can say in the matter. Hedonism and humility are both good, in certain measure and in the right moment. Hurting other people on purpose to extract delight is perhaps my personal definition of pure evil, so that cannot be the way. But being a proud and aloof person myself about my achievements, I cannot say that humility is an all-time value.

However, if pressed to choose both, I would take humility. At least noone else ends harmed.

"He who does not compete cannot be competed with" (Lao Tse)
So does that mean if I sit on my couch in my underwear drinking beer and eating burritos, I'm a better man than someone who actually goes out and does something?

If so...

Yay!!! I've finally found the philosophy for me!

Sadly, my time is very short.
But I will get back to you on this.

For now, take notice of this:



The more sure with yourself you became, the less you felt the need to take this kind of action.

As for criticism, I dont think I need to.
You already know that picking on stupid people, or people less mentally equipped than you makes you a douche.
But, you make several mentions that you are making at least some effort to change this, and here you are asking the opinions of strangers on NS.

This tells me that you want people to think highly of you.

If others opinions matter to you, then perhaps you arent as narcissistic as you might think.

I think you know your problem, and are on the right track to becoming a better person.

The real question seems to be :

"Do I really want to be a better person?"

I cant answer that for you.
Sounds good, my msn is digital[dot]brent[at]gmail[dot]com. Drop me a line when you have more time. Seeking the advice of strangers is the best way i can get an objective picture of my situation. Nobody can truly criticise themselves accurately.

For me, I know I want to be a better person, I am always striving for new hieghts. However for me the question I was hoping to recieve some help on was "Would this make me a better person, or just a nicer one?"

Life is like the cord of a violin. If you let it too loose, it won't be tuned, if you tight it too much, it won't be tuned and risks to be broken.

That's all I can say in the matter. Hedonism and humility are both good, in certain measure and in the right moment. Hurting other people on purpose to extract delight is perhaps my personal definition of pure evil, so that cannot be the way. But being a proud and aloof person myself about my achievements, I cannot say that humility is an all-time value.

However, if pressed to choose both, I would take humility. At least noone else ends harmed.
Well I don't believe in evil (beyond a subjectively devised label). What you seem to be advising me is to balance restraint with hedonism, which from my perspective is what I am doing. This is mainly because how much I hurt people is a pretty low priority for me. I care in principle, but not in reality. Besides, I currently only hurt people who agress me. I'd like to do it more, but I have learned to restrain myself so as to prevent this.

So does that mean if I sit on my couch in my underwear drinking beer and eating burritos, I'm a better man than someone who actually goes out and does something?

If so...

Yay!!! I've finally found the philosophy for me!
I think it has more to do with exhibiting restraint, rather than motivation. That is to say, do things, but don't try and beaty othersat them for it's own sake. I really love winning/beating others though, but it sounds cool. I currently see it as "Competition is below me". But I feel this is not the core message.

A philosophical questions for the forums. (The question is in bold down the bottom for those who don't want to read all of the crap).

For a very long time I have enjoyed crushing others. This sadistic enjoyment of the destruction of others is mainly derived from the personality disorders I suffer HPD (Histrionic personality disorder) and NPD (Narcissistic personality disorder). That being said, long before I recieved a diagnosis, I have improved greatly some of the more destructive aspects of these disorders. Namely (relevant to the topic) I have had success repressing the need to hurt others for my own enjoyment.

When I used to go out and look for people to destroy, I now have managed to get it to the point wherein I wait to be agressed. This had made the act no less enjoyable, just less frequent. Remember, doing this is the height of power and glory for me. It is comparable to cackling like a madman whilst having sex atop a mountain peak during a thunderstorm. I initially decided to control it because it became apparent that it was controlling me. It was begining to dominate my life and my decisions. So with a lot of work I have managed to get it how it is now.

However, as some of you may know, I am learning chinese, and I have a chinese girlfriend. As I believe JiangGuo put it "When you learn Chinese, you learn a lot more than a language". He was most accurate, however I have also been exposed to a lot of chinese cultre through my girlfriend and her family. What I have found is a growing attraction to the chinese adoration of modesty and restraint. Quotes like "He who does not compete cannot be competed with" (Lao Tse), and ideaologies like 'smiling Tiger' (Do not betray you motives and capacities, instead be a smiling tiger) are philosophically very alluring.

Here's the rub. I really enjoy superiority and destroying others. A lot. It brings me endless glee to crush underlings. While I like the idea of being humble and restrained, I fear I will not like the practice. I anticipate I would be miserable, pretending to be normal. Also, for now, let us assume it is within my capabilities to attain. Would I discover a hidden enjoyment of modesty? Or is that just not the point, am I supposed to sacrifice hedonistic enjoyment for a greater sense of fulfillment. Is it worth it, seeing as the hedonism doesn't cause me trouble any more? Which is more valuable; Hedonism and enjoyment, or modesty and restraint?

So I put it to the forums, should I continue optimising my hedonism so as to maximise enjoyment whilst ensuring it does not consume me, or should I endevour to rid my self of it's presence entirely, and aim for a less enjoyable but more meaningful existence?
Thanks for taking the time to help me with this philosophical dichotomy. Here have this cookie. *gives cookie*


You should take Seroquel. Seriously. It works.

I think it has more to do with exhibiting restraint, rather than motivation. That is to say, do things, but don't try and beaty othersat them for it's own sake. I really love winning/beating others though, but it sounds cool. I currently see it as "Competition is below me". But I feel this is not the core message.
awww...spoilsport.

You should take Seroquel. Seriously. It works.
I'm sorry, is seroquel a drug, a program, or something else?

awww...spoilsport.
Sorry, here have another cookie. *gives cookie* Seriously though, what do you think, restraint, or hedonism?

I'm sorry, is seroquel a drug, a program, or something else?

http://www.seroquel.com/

A drug. Has profound effects on anyone with bipolar mania, and recently on people with histrionic personality disorder.

I can feel your anger.… It gives you focus … makes you stronger. Let the hate flow through you boy, and only then will you achieve a power beyond reckoning, only then will you be able to save the one you love........

I can feel your anger.… It gives you focus … makes you stronger. Let the hate flow through you boy, and only then will you achieve a power beyond reckoning, only then will you be able to save the one you love........
Another reason I am hesitant. I do evil so well, and I want to be anakin Skywalker. I was pissed off watching episodes 1-3 because Hayden Christenson was doing him wrong. I would have acted Anakin so much better, (even though I usually direct these days). I was robbed :'(

http://www.seroquel.com/

A drug. Has profound effects on anyone with bipolar mania, and recently on people with histrionic personality disorder.
Do I want to take a drug to fix my problems...

Ah yes, but treatment is so time consuming, and I'm already half-cured. The proper treatment for NPD and HPD is 2-4 years therapy. Stuff that. I am having good enough success alone. Besides anyone who has ever been to psych-treatment will lose a great deal of respect for the system. Philosophically, do you agree with the idea of hedonism, or humility? Also, if you could, give reasons why your choice is better than the other).

Every crazy person in the world thinks that they dont need thier meds and they are getting better on thier own just fine. Stop worrying about respecting or not respecting systems and get professional help. Does the fact that your foregoing professional help and asking for advice on random message boards instead give some indication as to your faulty reasoning abilities due to disease?

Do I want to take a drug to fix my problems...

Why not give it a try?

No, for the sake of all that doesn't suck, embrace the hedonism, embrace all that is glorious and free, and not borne of tyrranical despots sitting in gilded palaces millenia ago.

if you really have been diagnosed as having npd and/or hpd, chances are you'll carry it with you forever. You're stuck with it and you're better off finding a way to control it, especially if you crave companionship. npd's don't exactly have it easy keeping friends and lovers.

Two pieces of advice:

If you like the chinese philosophy, explore it. You might find pleasure in making others happy (your gf and your community).

Second, find a socially acceptable way to crush others. Go into business, law, or some other field where you can rip others to shreds in the name of something good. There a lot of aspd's making a fortune in sales and business.

I seem to be having a tightness in my chest. Could someone please talk me thru how to do a triple bypass and ill do it myself? Thanks.

My heroine! :fluffle: I was just about to puke up my dinner in despair before you arrived.

Somehow I seriously doubt that. However distasteful your disclosure here is, however, you've not been abusing others in this thread and deserve the same courtesy.

I seem to be having a tightness in my chest. Could someone please talk me thru how to do a triple bypass and ill do it myself? Thanks.

Find the nearest buzzsaw, cut, snip and such random arterial mass from your legs, use said buzzsaw to cut hole in chest, use sewing threat to sew arterial stuff to bypass the blockage, sew back up with thread, take aspirin.

Do I want to take a drug to fix my problems...

if you are mentally ill, it makes sense to take medication. If you were diabetic you might require insulin, if you have NPD you might require an anti-psychotic.

Look at it this way, you might only need meds until you are emotionally and mentally clear to go through some intensive therapy by which you can change your behavior, and then you can back off from the meds.

Kinda like when I messed up my knee, they let me still take my pain pills half way through pain management therapy, it was a stop-gap until I was okay enough with other methods of pain relief to do it without meds.

As always I plug the book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0380810336/002-5068058-9946468?n=283155) that really changed my whole life. (no, it's actually not the Bible although I should plug that one too.........uh........read the Bible)

You can pick up the book for less than $5 sometimes, and it's worth it, I really think everyone would be more happy and well adjusted if they would read it. I probably need to go read it again. ;)

So, you win, because I got mod-slapped for calling you what you are. Winning was also the point of your post, thereby making it a troll. /quit

Mod-slapped? That was more like a mod-poke.

Well I don't believe in evil (beyond a subjectively devised label). What you seem to be advising me is to balance restraint with hedonism, which from my perspective is what I am doing. This is mainly because how much I hurt people is a pretty low priority for me. I care in principle, but not in reality. Besides, I currently only hurt people who agress me. I'd like to do it more, but I have learned to restrain myself so as to prevent this.

As in everything, it depends. The definition for me of evil, that is away from any religious dependance, is to sacrifice yourself or take effort into harming or otherwise damaging others. For me, it is something that must be avoided at any cost.

But then, that entirely depends on morals, and I try to not be so shortsighted to recognize that moral varies according to people. Your code of morals, according to my moral code, (again) is distasteful, if not entirely abhorrent. I fight everyday against people who actually do the same as you in a bigger scale. That is, harming other people to extract pleasure from it.

Yet, if you keep your activities legal, at least you show some restraint. Also, depends on how you qualify people who "agress you". If that is harming you in a direct way is something. If that is showing disagreement, for example, then I could qualify you as an abomination. Then again, we are talking about morals here, no? I'm being entirely honest.

However, as some of you may know, I am learning chinese, and I have a chinese girlfriend. As I believe JiangGuo put it "When you learn Chinese, you learn a lot more than a language". He was most accurate, however I have also been exposed to a lot of chinese cultre through my girlfriend and her family. What I have found is a growing attraction to the chinese adoration of modesty and restraint. Quotes like "He who does not compete cannot be competed with" (Lao Tse), and ideaologies like 'smiling Tiger' (Do not betray you motives and capacities, instead be a smiling tiger) are philosophically very alluring.

I too am studying Chinese and I too have a Chinese girlfriend. And I like you had problems. I was cold, uncaring, and selfish and still am to a point. However the more I learn about chinese culture and the more time I spend with my girlfriend the better person I become. So I say stick to what your doing now and be nicer. You'll feel better in the end, but thats me.

As always I plug the book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0380810336/002-5068058-9946468?n=283155) that really changed my whole life.

Awwww i was sooo hoping it would have been a link to Dianetics by L Ron Hubbard.

And I like you had problems. I was cold, uncaring, and selfish and still am to a point.

In my day they used to call this disease being a teenager.

Awwww i was sooo hoping it would have been a link to Dianetics by L Ron Hubbard.

uh.......no. This was one of the very first really good cognitive therapy books.

In my day they used to call this disease being a teenager.

problem is I'm not a teenager

In my day they used to call this disease being a teenager.

you know some people have actual problems, ones that can't be cured or solved by smartassed comments.

Cookies!

you know some people have actual problems, ones that can't be cured or solved by smartassed comments.

And if they have problems, as ive already clearly stated, a message board isnt the place for answers. Message boards are made for smartassed comments. Doctors are made for medical problems. Even funnier this is a POLITICAL SCIENCE message board.

if you really have been diagnosed as having npd and/or hpd, chances are you'll carry it with you forever. You're stuck with it and you're better off finding a way to control it, especially if you crave companionship. npd's don't exactly have it easy keeping friends and lovers.

Two pieces of advice:

If you like the chinese philosophy, explore it. You might find pleasure in making others happy (your gf and your community).

Second, find a socially acceptable way to crush others. Go into business, law, or some other field where you can rip others to shreds in the name of something good. There a lot of aspd's making a fortune in sales and business.
Ha, that why I hang out in forums :p

As in everything, it depends. The definition for me of evil, that is away from any religious dependance, is to sacrifice yourself or take effort into harming or otherwise damaging others. For me, it is something that must be avoided at any cost.

But then, that entirely depends on morals, and I try to not be so shortsighted to recognize that moral varies according to people. Your code of morals, according to my moral code, (again) is distasteful, if not entirely abhorrent. I fight everyday against people who actually do the same as you in a bigger scale. That is, harming other people to extract pleasure from it.

Yet, if you keep your activities legal, at least you show some restraint. Also, depends on how you qualify people who "agress you". If that is harming you in a direct way is something. If that is showing disagreement, for example, then I could qualify you as an abomination. Then again, we are talking about morals here, no? I'm being entirely honest.

Abomination I am, then. Though it is usually some kind of instigated rivalry, and usually ends in embarrassment for the instigating party. Nothing illegal, nothing violent, but always belittling, and always glorious.

A philosophical questions for the forums. (The question is in bold down the bottom for those who don't want to read all of the crap).

For a very long time I have enjoyed crushing others. This sadistic enjoyment of the destruction of others is mainly derived from the personality disorders I suffer HPD (Histrionic personality disorder) and NPD (Narcissistic personality disorder). That being said, long before I recieved a diagnosis, I have improved greatly some of the more destructive aspects of these disorders. Namely (relevant to the topic) I have had success repressing the need to hurt others for my own enjoyment.

When I used to go out and look for people to destroy, I now have managed to get it to the point wherein I wait to be agressed. This had made the act no less enjoyable, just less frequent. Remember, doing this is the height of power and glory for me. It is comparable to cackling like a madman whilst having sex atop a mountain peak during a thunderstorm. I initially decided to control it because it became apparent that it was controlling me. It was begining to dominate my life and my decisions. So with a lot of work I have managed to get it how it is now.

However, as some of you may know, I am learning chinese, and I have a chinese girlfriend. As I believe JiangGuo put it "When you learn Chinese, you learn a lot more than a language". He was most accurate, however I have also been exposed to a lot of chinese cultre through my girlfriend and her family. What I have found is a growing attraction to the chinese adoration of modesty and restraint. Quotes like "He who does not compete cannot be competed with" (Lao Tse), and ideaologies like 'smiling Tiger' (Do not betray you motives and capacities, instead be a smiling tiger) are philosophically very alluring.

Here's the rub. I really enjoy superiority and destroying others. A lot. It brings me endless glee to crush underlings. While I like the idea of being humble and restrained, I fear I will not like the practice. I anticipate I would be miserable, pretending to be normal. Also, for now, let us assume it is within my capabilities to attain. Would I discover a hidden enjoyment of modesty? Or is that just not the point, am I supposed to sacrifice hedonistic enjoyment for a greater sense of fulfillment. Is it worth it, seeing as the hedonism doesn't cause me trouble any more? Which is more valuable; Hedonism and enjoyment, or modesty and restraint?

So I put it to the forums, should I continue optimising my hedonism so as to maximise enjoyment whilst ensuring it does not consume me, or should I endevour to rid my self of it's presence entirely, and aim for a less enjoyable but more meaningful existence?
Thanks for taking the time to help me with this philosophical dichotomy. Here have this cookie. *gives cookie*

it is up you,and really
,feel free

And if they have problems, as ive already clearly stated, a message board isnt the place for answers. Message boards are made for smartassed comments. Doctors are made for medical problems. Even funnier this is a POLITICAL SCIENCE message board.
Actually this is more of a philosophical problem. The issue at hand isn't whther I should seek treatment for my HPD/NPD. The issue phrased in the OP is whether I should move towards a life lead more by modest and restrain, or one stick with the current life of hedonism I have now. The method I pick to get there is really an accessory to the question of whther I should or not. Perhaps you should read the OP before sassing it up, eh? It would appear that you are probably young, as indicated by the lack of tact you ave displayed.

It is my belief that no person can be truely happy while they are bringing misery and suffering to others.

I am willing to accept that you feel some sort of fulfillment from hurting others, but I believe that you will find a greater measure of inner peace and true happiness by learning to restrain those impulses.

In my past I had impulses to use other people to fulfill my desires, without regard to how I was injuring their feelings. I was happy, after a fasion, for a time, but in the end I realised that living that way was making me miserable.

Temperance and restraint of our naturally selfish impulses is the path to self mastery. No one is truely happy until they are truely free. No one is truely free until they have mastered them selves. When self mastery is achived you are are at peace, and free in a way that can never be taken from you.

Abomination I am, then. Though it is usually some kind of instigated rivalry, and usually ends in embarrassment for the instigating party. Nothing illegal, nothing violent, but always belittling, and always glorious.

Could it be a severe case of a competitive obssession than anything else?

Do I want to take a drug to fix my problems...
Even if it might be the only thing that could really help you? You have also stated that you quit your therapy and counseling...
Ah yes, but treatment is so time consuming, and I'm already half-cured. The proper treatment for NPD and HPD is 2-4 years therapy. Stuff that. I am having good enough success alone.
Quitting therapy early does you no good. There is no such thing as "half-cured". That's like being "half-pregnant". You either are, or you are not. And you are not! Considering your age, 2-4 years of therapy sound like a little burden compared to a life without those inner demons you seem to battle. And even if you don't get rid of them, it would sure help to "lower their voices". And if it has to medication to turn them mute, then so be it.
Remember, if you take the hedonistic approach, it should be you who gains the most from it. What really matters is you and your well-being. And that would mean that you complete your therapy and if necessary adjust your chemical imbalance. There are no valid alternatives to that.
Besides anyone who has ever been to psych-treatment will lose a great deal of respect for the system.
Quite the contrary, man, quite the contrary. It helped tremendously. Hell, it helped for me to overcome my inner demons and continue living, truth be told!!! Maybe the therapist you've been seeing isn't the right one for you?

Every crazy person in the world thinks that they dont need thier meds and they are getting better on thier own just fine. Stop worrying about respecting or not respecting systems and get professional help. Does the fact that your foregoing professional help and asking for advice on random message boards instead give some indication as to your faulty reasoning abilities due to disease?
I would have phrased it differently, but yes, in essence, that is what I was thinking as well.

I can feel your anger.… It gives you focus … makes you stronger. Let the hate flow through you boy, and only then will you achieve a power beyond reckoning, only then will you be able to save the one you love........
And we all know that this dark path only leads to the destruction of oneself in the end... So please, don't go there ;)

Well, see, here's the key: you're crushing others. That is, you are hurting others to give yourself pleasure. I have no problem with hedonism. Do all you want...but my limit is where you begin to hurt another for your own gain. That, my friend, is something one should avoid at all cost. Thusly, I must advise you to take whatever steps necessary to avoid further harming of others.
I agree. And by all cost, I would like to add, meaning that you should complete your training, uh... therapy and if need be, take the little happy pills. You might be surprised how well you will feel and how proud you can be once you've accomplished that set goal...

It is my belief that no person can be truely happy while they are bringing misery and suffering to others.

I am willing to accept that you feel some sort of fulfillment from hurting others, but I believe that you will find a greater measure of inner peace and true happiness by learning to restrain those impulses.

In my past I had impulses to use other people to fulfill my desires, without regard to how I was injuring their feelings. I was happy, after a fasion, for a time, but in the end I realised that living that way was making me miserable.

Temperance and restraint of our naturally selfish impulses is the path to self mastery. No one is truely happy until they are truely free. No one is truely free until they have mastered them selves. When self mastery is achived you are are at peace, and free in a way that can never be taken from you.
Ok, this is the kind of reason I need. Not the well being of others, but the amazing perk of self-mastery. I am hoping this envelopes self dicipline, something I desperately need. You've pretty much swayed me with this one post. So is self-mastery= to self discipline?

It is my belief that no person can be truely happy while they are bringing misery and suffering to others.


And that is why you fail.

*snip*
Why is this seeming to become a choice between the jedi arts, and the dark side. The Jedi have a wonderful air of inner peace and self mastery, but the dark side is so damn cool and much more powerful...awwwww...mann..... but once I start down the path of the dark side, forever will it control my destiny. I don't like that permanence. But I do get an awesome black cape and helmet. The temptation, GN, the temptation.

On a serious note, what I meant by half-cured is that I have already overcome most of the damaging aspects of both PD's (before I was even diagnosed). Though I do love the idea of half-pregnancy.

So back to the point, I have gathered that you reccomend treatment, that being said. Restraint, or hedonism?

if you are mentally ill, it makes sense to take medication. If you were diabetic you might require insulin, if you have NPD you might require an anti-psychotic.

Look at it this way, you might only need meds until you are emotionally and mentally clear to go through some intensive therapy by which you can change your behavior, and then you can back off from the meds.

Kinda like when I messed up my knee, they let me still take my pain pills half way through pain management therapy, it was a stop-gap until I was okay enough with other methods of pain relief to do it without meds.

As always I plug the book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0380810336/002-5068058-9946468?n=283155) that really changed my whole life. (no, it's actually not the Bible although I should plug that one too.........uh........read the Bible)

You can pick up the book for less than $5 sometimes, and it's worth it, I really think everyone would be more happy and well adjusted if they would read it. I probably need to go read it again. ;)
I saw the book 'mood therapy' and I know we are taught not to judge a book by it's cover, but judging by the cover, it is about moods. I am actually a happy guy. I have no real happiness problems, just some with motivation. Most of the problems generated by my PDs belong to the people with whom I interact. As such, I am not really bothered by it. Have I gotten the book all wrong?

Could it be a severe case of a competitive obssession than anything else?
Kinda, but on angel dust. That would be an understatement, plus somewhat nondescriptive of all of the other aspects of the two disorders that I haven't raised (as they have little to do with the question of hedonism over restraint).

And that is why you fail.
Ok, Andaluciae, since you've been gone I have been swayed heavily in favour of the guy you just quoted. He offered Self-mastery should I head down the path of restraint and modesty. I am in desperate need of self-discipline (another auxiliary problem of HPD). This has nearly sold me. Any last case for Hedonism?

This sadistic enjoyment of the destruction of others is mainly derived from the personality disorders I suffer HPD (Histrionic personality disorder) and NPD (Narcissistic personality disorder).

I think the question you need to ask yourself is whether you suffer from these, or are enjoying them. Because, if you're suffering from them, then something needs to be done, but if you're enjoying them, then... well use your best judgement.

I think the question you need to ask yourself is whether you suffer from these, or are enjoying them. Because, if you're suffering from them, then something needs to be done, but if you're enjoying them, then... well use your best judgement.
Excellent observation, the thing is that it's both. I enjoy most of my NPD and suffer a bit of it, and I suffer most of my HPD and enjoy a little of it. Luckily, my NPD is much more prevalent than my HPD. Still it leaves me with an annoyingly small level of 'suffer'. Small enough to concievably ignore, but large enough to cause majordisruptions to very specific aspects of my life. I think I might try DK's drug...

I saw the book 'mood therapy' and I know we are taught not to judge a book by it's cover, but judging by the cover, it is about moods. I am actually a happy guy. I have no real happiness problems, just some with motivation. Most of the problems generated by my PDs belong to the people with whom I interact. As such, I am not really bothered by it. Have I gotten the book all wrong?

the book is about moods, but not in the sense that it's about "being happy" it's more about how you react to the world around you, how you deal with things in your life. It has helped me to become more responsible, have more self control, deal with people differently, be my own best advocate in the world.

I have a personality disorder (or you know three or four) and this book has helped me to reign in my issues and function as almost a "normal" person. I may have had fun with my manic episodes, but really they didn't further my life any at all, and it comes down to are you really happy or are you telling yourself that?

Actually this is more of a philosophical problem. The issue at hand isn't whther I should seek treatment for my HPD/NPD. The issue phrased in the OP is whether I should move towards a life lead more by modest and restrain, or one stick with the current life of hedonism I have now.

Actually no it isnt. Once you get proper medical treatment and get your mind back in proper balance, this will become a moot issue.

It would appear that you are probably young, as indicated by the lack of tact you ave displayed.

Actually old enough to be your father :)

I think the question you need to ask yourself is whether you suffer from these, or are enjoying them. Because, if you're suffering from them, then something needs to be done, but if you're enjoying them, then... well use your best judgement.

What your missing is the rather critical fact that whats important isnt if hes enjoying himself or not. Heroine addicts do heroine because they enjoy it. It doesnt make a sick person capable of nessesarily rational thought or decision making abilities nor does the fact that its enjoayble make it good or healthy. Mentally ill patients traditionally are the least able of anyone to evaluate themselves.

Well, polls are in deat heat. However I am think I might give modesty and restraint a shot. Two main points influenced me thus. The first is that modesty and restraint leads to self-mastery, something I need. Second (the straw that broke the Camels back) was Smunkeevilles post about illusionary happiness. I do believe I am happy, but I also believed I was happy when I had both disorders in full swing (compared to the 20%HPD/60%NPD I suffer now), yet now I know myself to be much happier. Besides, I can 'turn to the dark side' of hedonism anytime if restraint and modesty make me miserable. Thank you people.

Also, on a side note I have decided to seek therapy. Not for any reason except that EVERYONE keeps telling me I should. Not just here. On top of that, I will try out your Drug if possible, DK. Thanks again.

Also, on a side note I have decided to seek therapy.

YAY! i find it funny that now you think its "the side note"..i cant wait to hear from you in 6 months about how side it was :)

Well, polls are in deat heat. However I am think I might give modesty and restraint a shot. Two main points influenced me thus. The first is that modesty and restraint leads to self-mastery, something I need. Second (the straw that broke the Camels back) was Smunkeevilles post about illusionary happiness. I do believe I am happy, but I also believed I was happy when I had both disorders in full swing (compared to the 20%HPD/60%NPD I suffer now), yet now I know myself to be much happier. Besides, I can 'turn to the dark side' of hedonism anytime if restraint and modesty make me miserable. Thank you people.

Also, on a side note I have decided to seek therapy. Not for any reason except that EVERYONE keeps telling me I should. Not just here. On top of that, I will try out your Drug if possible, DK. Thanks again.

good deal. :)

You can always have fun after you learn self control, the fun is even more fun then ;) (that doesn't make sense but it's true)

Actually no it isnt. Once you get proper medical treatment and get your mind back in proper balance, this will become a moot issue.
My mind is in balance. I just have some unusual tendancies. It's not like i can't function.
Actually old enough to be your father :) Yeah I knew, you could tell by the condescending tone. I was just being facicious. :)

Well,I would suggest the eastern wisdom, since I myself am a Buddhist.

In the end,it is your choice. Remain in your ways,enjoy pointless and ephemereal pleasures and you will not advance anywhere. If that is what you want,continue.

If you wish to blossom as a soul, not just as a human being, listen to your heart.

Why is this seeming to become a choice between the jedi arts, and the dark side. The Jedi have a wonderful air of inner peace and self mastery, but the dark side is so damn cool and much more powerful...awwwww...mann..... but once I start down the path of the dark side, forever will it control my destiny. I don't like that permanence. But I do get an awesome black cape and helmet. The temptation, GN, the temptation.
I know what you mean, for that is exactly how I have felt/feel, depending on mood and circumstances ;)
But always remember:
"Is the dark side stronger?"
"No...no...no. Quicker, easier, more seductive."
"But how am I to know the good side from the bad?"
"You will know. When you are calm, at peace. Passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack."
"But tell me why I can't..."
"No, no, there is no why. Nothing more will I teach you today. Clear your mind of questions. Mmm. Mmmmmm."
On a serious note, what I meant by half-cured is that I have already overcome most of the damaging aspects of both PD's (before I was even diagnosed). Though I do love the idea of half-pregnancy.
Good to hear. Sounds more like you needed some encouragement to pick up your counseling again, since you already know that it does indeed work.
And since we're already using the Star Wars analogy:
"I feel the Force!"
"But you cannot control it. This is a dangerous time for you, when you will be tempted by the dark side of the Force."
"But I've learned so much since then. I promise to return and finish what I've begun. You have my word."
"If you end your training now, if you choose the quick and easy path, as Vader did, you will become an agent of evil."
"Patience."
I'm always amazed time and again how well oh so many Star Wars quotes fit reality ;)
So back to the point, I have gathered that you reccomend treatment, that being said. Restraint, or hedonism?
Mmh. I don't believe that they are mutually exclusive, to be honest.
The OED gives the following definition:
hedonism /heedniz’m/
noun; 1) the pursuit of pleasure; sensual self-indulgence. 2) Philosophy; the theory that pleasure (in the sense of the satisfaction of desires) is the highest good and proper aim of human life.

You have already stated what pleasures you, and you have also acknowledged that it is not something that you feel completely comfortable with.

Now, my conclusion and advice, if you like, would be, that you start learning and accepting restraint to give you pleasure.
While that might sound a little strange - what gives you pleasure and fulfillment is in the eye of the beholder - you!
So instead of giving in to your basic urges, learn to accept and overcome them and draw pleasure from your self-control and self-restraint.
Every time you accomplish that, to your initial astonishment, you will learn to really appreciate your inner strength.
And while there will certainly be some set-backs, don't let those discourage you, but again, accept them and vow to learn from them.
You will see, that although it takes time and patience, you will gradually improve and draw strength from your successes.

I hope that helps you. And may the Force be with you - always! :p

YAY! i find it funny that now you think its "the side note"..i cant wait to hear from you in 6 months about how side it was :)
A side note to the topic of the thread, pops.

-Gratuitous Snippage-
The kind of attitude you express to the world is exactly the sort of thing modern Christianity exists to fulfil. It is about taking your own selfish thirst for superiority and transforming it into a desire for something otherworldly. It gives you a totally self-serving reason for which to be more tranquil and open to the world; kinda like a gateway empathy, if you will.

While I tell most people I talk to to stay well clear of it for precisely that reason, I think you and it might go together quite well, at least in the short term.

Well,I would suggest the eastern wisdom, since I myself am a Buddhist.

In the end,it is your choice. Remain in your ways,enjoy pointless and ephemereal pleasures and you will not advance anywhere. If that is what you want,continue.

If you wish to blossom as a soul, not just as a human being, listen to your heart.
Heh heh. i'm an atheist, but should I be incorrect, and some religion I have always hoped it would be the buddhists. Not only are they one of the only religions which doesn't call for my severe and unending punishment (atheism is worse than baby cannibalisation in most codes, probably because it is the only crime to threaten the longevity of the religion). Not only that, but I actually enjoy life (No matter how full of suffering you say it is) perpetual reincarnation sounds awesome. Buddha sure had atheists in mind when he dreamt this stuff up under his tree!

A side note to the topic of the thread, pops.

Hey i can still kick yer ass :: shakes cane and grabs you by the ear ::

*snip* Star Wars truly is the latest edition of the big man's gospel. I didn't put my religion as 'Jedi' For no reason. I am going to contact my local chapter of FSM and campaign George Lucas' ordaining with prophethood, or at the very least sainthood.

I never actually went to counselling since I've had HPD or NPD. It was years ago when I was 15/16 for depression (NPD/HPD began maybe 6 months after). I found the counsellors to be arrogant, condescending, self-congratulatory f*cks (I was arrogant before I had NPD :p). Didn't like them at all. But that was a while ago...

Heh heh. i'm an atheist, but should I be incorrect, and some religion I have always hoped it would be the buddhists. Not only are they one of the only religions which doesn't call for my severe and unending punishment (atheism is worse than baby cannibalisation in most codes, probably because it is the only crime to threaten the longevity of the religion). Not only that, but I actually enjoy life (No matter how full of suffering you say it is) perpetual reincarnation sounds awesome. Buddha sure had atheists in mind when he dreamt this stuff up under his tree!

Well,in most religions,the whole point is that there is an omnipotent god.:p I used to be Muslim,by the way,so I can understand the concept completely.It's sort of like the evil,bipolar Yahweh,our Allah.They're the same god,but they have slightly different personalities.

I'm don't beleive that life is full of suffering.It is also full of pleasure,but both of pleasure and suffering are temporary.Your mind tends to wax and wane with pleasure and pain throughout your life.In the end,it's all pointless,these temporary and trivial things in life.But,I think,in a way,yes,I have been in a state of depression and cynicism about the world since I was about 12,so perhaps you are right about me seeing the world so darkly.

I would have probably killed myself had I not felt deep down inside there was a purpose for the seemingly pointless life.

It's not all about getting 'highs' of pleasure.A constant feeling of happiness is better than unbalanced moody mind.That is what I hope to acheive since I have become Buddhist.

Perpetual reincarnation is pointless if you won't use it to it's noble purpose.:rolleyes:

Hey i can still kick yer ass :: shakes cane and grabs you by the ear ::
Hehehehe... http://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/opa2.gif

The kind of attitude you express to the world is exactly the sort of thing modern Christianity exists to fulfil. It is about taking your own selfish thirst for superiority and transforming it into a desire for something otherworldly. It gives you a totally self-serving reason for which to be more tranquil and open to the world; kinda like a gateway empathy, if you will.

While I tell most people I talk to to stay well clear of it for precisely that reason, I think you and it might go together quite well, at least in the short term.
Ah, but my NPD is all about intellectual superiority, something I simply couldn't maintain alongside a sincere belief in the crap Christians purport to be true. That and I just don't like them, I couldn't abide by the company.

Hey i can still kick yer ass :: shakes cane and grabs you by the ear ::
Sad thing is my dad can still kick my arse :( He's a physical training instructor in the Army. He's fit and bloody built. He does triathalons for fun. Puts me to shame :p

Well,in most religions,the whole point is that there is an omnipotent god.:p I used to be Muslim,by the way,so I can understand the concept completely.It's sort of like the evil,bipolar Yahweh,our Allah.They're the same god,but they have slightly different personalities.

I'm don't beleive that life is full of suffering.It is also full of pleasure,but both of pleasure and suffering are temporary.Your mind tends to wax and wane with pleasure and pain throughout your life.In the end,it's all pointless,these temporary and trivial things in life.But,I think,in a way,yes,I have been in a state of depression and cynicism about the world since I was about 12,so perhaps you are right about me seeing the world so darkly.

I would have probably killed myself had I not felt deep down inside there was a purpose for the seemingly pointless life.

It's not all about getting 'highs' of pleasure.A constant feeling of happiness is better than unbalanced moody mind.That is what I hope to acheive since I have become Buddhist.

Perpetual reincarnation is pointless if you won't use it to it's noble purpose.:rolleyes:
See I never got the whole idea of suicide and hihilism going hand in hand. I am a total nihilist (I doubt we even exist) nevertheless, I would never kill myself. This life is interesting. It's life is daytime television and you have a shotgun. Now you can watch the daytime television, or you can shoot the TV. Sometimes the shows are crap, but so what, it's better than no TV. Sometimes the shows are good (but you don't tell anyone you think so).

I like the idea of perpetuating reincarnation despite it's noble purpose. Don't fix it if it isn't broken. Just keep livng life. I am not up for the supreme nonexistence of nirvane. No way. I enjoy my suffering thank you very much!

Star Wars truly is the latest edition of the big man's gospel. I didn't put my religion as 'Jedi' For no reason. I am going to contact my local chapter of FSM and campaign George Lucas' ordaining with prophethood, or at the very least sainthood.
Heh. Yup!
I never actually went to counselling since I've had HPD or NPD. It was years ago when I was 15/16 for depression (NPD/HPD began maybe 6 months after). I found the counsellors to be arrogant, condescending, self-congratulatory f*cks (I was arrogant before I had NPD :p). Didn't like them at all. But that was a while ago...
So, what do you think of the rest? You haven't really commented on it. :(

So, what do you think of the rest? You haven't really commented on it. :(

Hey sorry GN old boy, I didn't post because I took it all on. It was all good advice. Most reasonable. You really hit the nail on the head. I hope that hedonism and restraint can be mutual. Thanks a lot though, you talk a lot of sense. It seems that I am too used to argueing, and I only reply when I contest something :p

*snip*
Haha, I love it. "Some people play tennis, I erode the human soul (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/02/28)."

Hey sorry GN old boy, I didn't post because I took it all on. It was all good advice. Most reasonable. You really hit the nail on the head. I hope that hedonism and restraint can be mutual. Thanks a lot though, you talk a lot of sense. It seems that I am too used to argueing, and I only reply when I contest something :p
Ah - gotcha. Thanks for the reply. I was wondering whether that was at all helpful or not, appreciate that feedback of yours.
Take care, GPN, see you around NSG :D

Haha, I love it. "Some people play tennis, I erode the human soul (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/02/28)."
Oh my god I know! I just Spent the last hour in stitches as I tore this poor girl to pieces in another forum. God. I am feeling the best I have in weeks. Seriously it was hilarious. Heheheee. I'm still laughing. It was a private message battle. By the end she was aimlessly slinging insults and tripping over herself. All I had to do was keed prodding! OMG it was too much. Oh dear, oh dear oh deary me. :D I love my life. heheheh hee hee hee ah. Oh god. That was so worth not sleeping for.

After that I don't know how I could possibly give that up. This will be hard. I dunno, I think it suits me. I totally relate to that guy in the comic. I even DM D&D. *sigh* good times...

Modesty and restraint. I personally live my life according to Taoist principles and I've found it to be a lot more satisfying than reckless self-indulgence. It's a lot more pleasurable to allow yourself to be satisfied and to know when you've had enough than to constantly hunger for more.

Which is more valuable; Hedonism and enjoyment, or modesty and restraint?

So I put it to the forums, should I continue optimising my hedonism so as to maximise enjoyment whilst ensuring it does not consume me, or should I endevour to rid my self of it's presence entirely, and aim for a less enjoyable but more meaningful existence?
Thanks for taking the time to help me with this philosophical dichotomy. Here have this cookie. *gives cookie*


Try developing empathy.

As I believe JiangGuo put it "When you learn Chinese, you learn a lot more than a language".

Awww, someone quoted me?! Yahoo!

And be VERY careful with Chinese women especially the Mainland raised ones - VERY subtly manipulative.

I suspect there are pills which could fix what's wrong with you more effectively than chinese philosophy can.

Invariably it is by embarrasing the subject, preferably publically, always by intellectual (Or at least arguementative) dominance. Very rare is the circumstance when I actually 'do' something. I have on occasion sttoped to practical jokes, or mess, but never violence. I loathe (e or no e?) violence. I am not really affected by the way these action influence the way people percieve me (I argue that I am not made into less of a person, some may just see it that way). Also, these days I only do it to those who agress me first. As such, in days past most agreed I was an unfriendly person, whereas these days most do not. Those that do are usually public jokes.

Fear not! The cure to your unfortunate mental disorders is at hand. The cure does not lie in conciously attempting to quit destroying others but in properly choosing which people you destroy. Next time choose someone who is not averse to vioolence like you are, instead destroy someone who embraces violence as a lifestyle and is good at it. In no time at all you will learn empathy and after have kittle interest in further participation.

Fear not! The cure to your unfortunate mental disorders is at hand. The cure does not lie in conciously attempting to quit destroying others but in properly choosing which people you destroy. Next time choose someone who is not averse to vioolence like you are, instead destroy someone who embraces violence as a lifestyle and is good at it. In no time at all you will learn empathy and after have kittle interest in further participation.

Not bad, you are good.

.

Try developing empathy.
Why?

Fear not! The cure to your unfortunate mental disorders is at hand. The cure does not lie in conciously attempting to quit destroying others but in properly choosing which people you destroy. Next time choose someone who is not averse to vioolence like you are, instead destroy someone who embraces violence as a lifestyle and is good at it. In no time at all you will learn empathy and after have kittle interest in further participation.
No doubt smart-arsed quips would extract the same result, eh?

I suspect there are pills which could fix what's wrong with you more effectively than chinese philosophy can.
It's not about curingme. My disorders were only neccessary to describe why I hold the current stance. The question is whether the eastern philosophies actually hold anything of worth, or whether hedonism is the greater code. Try to forget the PDs.

Awww, someone quoted me?! Yahoo!

And be VERY careful with Chinese women especially the Mainland raised ones - VERY subtly manipulative.
Tell me about it. She doesn't do anything, and I now find myself asking myself if she's not doing it for a reason, or if she's not doing it. What would be the expected reaction from me if she were to not do anything? Is that what she's after, or is she expecting me to analyse this far and not do the thing I would have done if she wasn't doing anything. Or perhaps that is her backup plan in case I discover the true intention behind her inaction, to trick me into the original through expectation of expectation of resistance. Then I consider that it all could be in my head, after all, she hasn't really left a precedent from which I could reasonable base a suspicion. But if she was doing it, then she wouldn't have left a precedent!

This continues until she *does* something, then...

It sounds like I'm paranoid. But she doesn't mean any harm, she is always annoyingly satisfied with every one of my actions. She doesn't say it, or reveal it, but you can see it in her eye dammit! Everything is in her master plan! Sometimes she'll tease me and let me know that the decision that I've finally decided to make is the only one I was ever going to make. *sigh* I'm in love...

Totally agree though JianGuo, those chinese girls are tricky. Though it's funny that you mentioned mainland Chinese. They lost a lot of their chinese-ness in the cultral revolution, from what I understand. There's a chinese joke which goes along the lines of 'the further you move from the middle (中) the closer you get to the centre' The joke being the further you move from the middle-country the true-er to the core traits of chinese culture you get. Chinese word-play. Unfortunately the joke was explained to me before I had begun learning chinese, so I don't know the original. I could be one of those 'easterners/Westerners' things though. Not cultrally, just the rivalry effect. In Australia it's New South Wales/Queesnland. I believe in USA you have EastCoast/WestCoast. Both sides will make jokes at the other's expense.

"He who does not compete cannot be competed with" (Lao Tse)
That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard, ever.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard, ever.
Then you should write a book about your idea and see if it finds itself as the cultral keystone of an entire race.

Then you should write a book about your idea and see if it finds itself as the cultral keystone of an entire race.
That isn't a philosophical idea. It's the expression of the usually subconscious fear of failure found in most human being of all "races" that ultimately prevents them from taking risks and succeeding.

That isn't a philosophical idea. It's the expression of the usually subconscious fear of failure found in most human being of all "races" that ultimately prevents them from taking risks and succeeding.

I guessed you didn't understand. Lao Tse wasn't disencouraging competition, he was attacking the notion of competition all together as meaningless. That is to say if you are focussing on competing you are wasting your time and missing the point. Winning and losing are merely labels devoid of real worth. Instead you should focus on results. Competition is inconsequential. Sorry, the competition is inconsequential. Competition itself can be quite relevant depending on what you are doing. You get?

"He who does not compete cannot be competed with" is not advising one not to participate, it is in fact venerating one who participates but not to compete. I think the idea is that you are then returning to the source of your actions, which is yourself and your motives (rather than reaching for the social label of 'best' or 'winner'). It's all about maintaining focus. That is my analysis, anyway.