NationStates Jolt Archive

What do you think?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060829/ap_on_go_ot/katrina_brown_s_regrets

"There was no plan. ... Three years ago, we should have done catastrophic planning," Brown said, charging that the Bush administration and his department head, Michael Chertoff, "would not give me the money to do that kind of planning."

he also said that he "sought futilely to get the 82nd Airborne Division into the city quickly."

I don't know if I believe that he tried very hard to do anything himself. He should have saved some of those urgent emails he sent to his staff. THe only ones I remember are where he is talkign about his suit.

Appearing on NBC's "Today" show, he was asked about positive statements he had made at the time about how Washington would come through for the storm victims, rather than leveling with the country about how bad the situation actually was.

"Those were White House talking points," Brown replied. "And to this day, I think that was my biggest mistake."

Brown said that at many intervals during the week the storm hit, he found himself asking, "Where in the hell is the help?"

"I have to confess ... you want to protect the president when you're a political appointee," he said, "so you're torn between telling the absolute truth and relying on those talking points. To this day, that is my biggest regret. "

The fact that there wasnt a plan was just recently reported on here (http://www.gregpalast.com/hurricane-expert-threatened-for-pre-katrina-warnings) - where Deputy Director of the Louisiana State University Hurricane Center, Dr. Ivor van Heerden blows the whistle.

...Dr. van Heerden offered this life-saving info to FEMA. They wouldn’t touch it. Then, a state official told him to shut up, back off or there would be consequences for van Heerden’s position. This official now works for IEM.

IEM was a company that was supposed to have drafted the evacuation plan - they cant find it - the White House cant find it. I bet it's true that it never really did exist.

:eek:

Person A blames Organization B for disaster C? Shocking!

What do you think?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060829/ap_on_go_ot/katrina_brown_s_regrets

he also said that he "sought futilely to get the 82nd Airborne Division into the city quickly."


The 82nd Airborne was not in country at the time.

From its base in North Carolina, if prepared for an EDRE (emergency deployment - that means they're all sitting on their bags, all packed and waiting to go), the 82nd can put out 1 brigade (about 1350 men) every 18 hours. And that's not counting their helicopters, etc - that's mostly just men on foot.

Brown is pulling shit out of his ass.

I would believe someone saying it's Nagin, Landrieu, and Bush's fault - together. And Brown's fault as well.

To show part of Nagin's negligence, I only need to show photos of hundreds of unused buses that should have been used in Nagin's own plan to evacuate the poor.

To show Landrieu's negligence, I only have to show her vacillating on what to do through the first week.

To show FEMA's (Brown and Bush's) screw up - well, we have the delay in relief as well as the delays in reconstruction.

Nagin and Landrieu, along with the Corps of Engineers, can take the blame for the shoddy workmanship by corrupt contractors who didn't build to spec on the levees.

And you can give credit to the US military - the Coast Guard and the Army National Guard in particular, for getting helicopters there QUICKLY and rescuing people from their roofs.

Three years ago, we should have done catastrophic planning," Brown said,
I thought their planning was pretty catastrophic... :-)

Brown was an incompetent crony appointed by Bush...he was not capable for the job and it showed in his handling of the situation. He's only blaming Bush because the president's approval ratings are in the tank; it's a good time to shift his own incompetence on to Bush and salvage some of his reputation quite possibly in retaliation for being forced to resign following the hurricane.

Nagin, Landrieu, Brown, Bush, and officials at all levels of government are to blame for the poor handling of the situation. Louisiana had years to upgrade the city's levees and pumps (after all, Category 4 and 5 hurricanes are nothing new) but sat on their asses and did nothing. That failure is just as damning as the response to the hurricane itself.

Every head of government and FEMA at each level deserves blame.

I wonder if Brown blames Nagin or the govenor of Lousiana for letting down the citizens of New Orleans, I doubt it.

Brown was an incompetent crony appointed by Bush...he was not capable for the job and it showed in his handling of the situation. He's only blaming Bush because the president's approval ratings are in the tank; it's a good time to shift his own incompetence on to Bush and salvage some of his reputation quite possibly in retaliation for being forced to resign following the hurricane.

Nagin, Landrieu, Brown, Bush, and officials at all levels of government are to blame for the poor handling of the situation. Louisiana had years to upgrade the city's levees and pumps (after all, Category 4 and 5 hurricanes are nothing new) but sat on their asses and did nothing. That failure is just as damning as the response to the hurricane itself.

Every head of government and FEMA at each level deserves blame.

Can't say it any better!

Holland also offered their dyke engineers to design something for us. As one jokingly said "You Americans design things for a 100 year event. We design for a 10000 year event. There is nothing wrong with living below sea level...." (Not exact wording).

They of course were turned down.

Pfft, who hasn't blamed the Bush administration, and in many cases Bush himself, for Katrina?

:eek:

Person A blames Organization B for disaster C? Shocking!

someone blames President Bush!!! even More Shocking!!! :eek:

Its tragic...but really hasn't the under investment in the levees been known about for decades? (this is a question...I don't know)

One thing I have learned when designing DR (Disaster Recovery) systems is that you can plan all you want...but when the shit hits the fan you will have forgotten something...it is a matter of luck if thing you forgot is going to wipe the floor with your best laid plans.

I admit I have been lucky. I have only had one DR activation and my hot site was up and running within the SLA (Service Level Agreement). What I did forget was getting staff to the new site in a timely fashion. I lucked out as staff were able to get to the new site under their own steam and in time. We did not have major traffic chaos. If there had been traffic chaos the site would have been active but no staff...making it all pretty acedemic.

In the case of New Orleans...people died. Obviously a totally different level of DR...but they just did not seem to be interested in understanding risk...nor staffing.

One question no one seems to have pondered is what would have happened if the leeves had not broken...

Brown was an incompetent crony appointed by Bush...he was not capable for the job and it showed in his handling of the situation. He's only blaming Bush because the president's approval ratings are in the tank; it's a good time to shift his own incompetence on to Bush and salvage some of his reputation quite possibly in retaliation for being forced to resign following the hurricane.

Nagin, Landrieu, Brown, Bush, and officials at all levels of government are to blame for the poor handling of the situation. Louisiana had years to upgrade the city's levees and pumps (after all, Category 4 and 5 hurricanes are nothing new) but sat on their asses and did nothing. That failure is just as damning as the response to the hurricane itself.

Every head of government and FEMA at each level deserves blame.


Well said Vetalia.

The guy who escapes unscsathed in this thread, and who perhaps deserves the most criticism for dithering, is Chertoff. He was Brown's boss, but when Brown was asking for resources, Chertoff was dicking around. Brown, as it turns out, wasn't as incompetent as he's been portrayed. He certainly wasn't the best choice, but he wasn't a complete idiot either. Chertoff, however, didn't react and release the resources, and he had to be the one to pull the trigger, because FEMA is now under DHS, and he's the DHS guy.

And DK, you're confusing Landrieu with Blanco. Landrieu is a Senator. Blanco is the governor, and she didn't waste time either. She did her job, which was to declare a state of emergency before the storm hit and mobilize what few resources she had. They weren't enough, but then again, no state would have had enough for an event this size. She probably could have done some small things better, but in the end, she did what was required, and there's no faulting a person for doing that.

Oh yeah, if you want to really hear Brown spread some blame around, read the Playboy interview in the most recent issue. I doubt it's available online, but it's worth looking at.

someone blames President Bush!!! even More Shocking!!! :eek:

George Bush made a MISTAKE???????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *head explodes*

Oh yeah, if you want to really hear Brown spread some blame around, read the Playboy interview in the most recent issue. I doubt it's available online, but it's worth looking at.
:p
No boss, I'm really looking at the Playboy site for the Brown Interview... I mean about Katrina... Hurricane Katrina... and how it's all the fault of Bush... No, the President, not... honestly, I wasn't looking at the pictures... :D

As a person on the county emergency management team, according to the Feds, the first three days belong to the local and state--anything that happens after three days belongs to the Feds. That is why everyone is advised to have a "72 hour" kit. A backpack that has everything your family needs to survive for 3 days. There are lots of lists on the net starting with the FEMA site. Just think how much different things would have been if every family had everything they needed for the first three days.

The problem became that this went on for more than three days. There were major problems during those three days but things weren't critical. Everything that happened after three days belongs to the Feds and they totally failed to be ready even after three days. All they had to do was pull out every military unit, military medicine, military food and get it on the road in three days. If they can't do that then the military as well as the government is a Total Failure. Far worse than Carter losing three helicopters and being told he was not prepared.

As a person on the county emergency management team, according to the Feds, the first three days belong to the local and state--anything that happens after three days belongs to the Feds. That is why everyone is advised to have a "72 hour" kit. A backpack that has everything your family needs to survive for 3 days. There are lots of lists on the net starting with the FEMA site. Just think how much different things would have been if every family had everything they needed for the first three days.

The problem became that this went on for more than three days. There were major problems during those three days but things weren't critical. Everything that happened after three days belongs to the Feds and they totally failed to be ready even after three days. All they had to do was pull out every military unit, military medicine, military food and get it on the road in three days. If they can't do that then the military as well as the government is a Total Failure. Far worse than Carter losing three helicopters and being told he was not prepared.As a numbe rof newscasters have pointed out today, the US had aid supplies in Banda Aceh after the tsunami in under 48 hours, but for some reason couldn't get supplies and troops into the Gulf coast for 5 days.

As a person on the county emergency management team, according to the Feds, the first three days belong to the local and state--anything that happens after three days belongs to the Feds. That is why everyone is advised to have a "72 hour" kit. A backpack that has everything your family needs to survive for 3 days. There are lots of lists on the net starting with the FEMA site. Just think how much different things would have been if every family had everything they needed for the first three days.

The problem became that this went on for more than three days. There were major problems during those three days but things weren't critical. Everything that happened after three days belongs to the Feds and they totally failed to be ready even after three days. All they had to do was pull out every military unit, military medicine, military food and get it on the road in three days. If they can't do that then the military as well as the government is a Total Failure. Far worse than Carter losing three helicopters and being told he was not prepared.

And pray tell how you are going to move all of that stuff to destroyed towns and cities that have their airports flooded as well as the roads?

And pray tell how you are going to move all of that stuff to destroyed towns and cities that have their airports flooded as well as the roads?People were driving in and out of New Orleans the day the winds passed. Canadian Mounted Police were in New Orleans before the federal government was there. People from all across the country drove into the city with relief supplies before the feds got there.

And pray tell how you are going to move all of that stuff to destroyed towns and cities that have their airports flooded as well as the roads?

As I remember there were helicopters everywhere and I sure they weren't the only ones within 72 hours of flying time. Let's see, how long does it take to drive from Maine or Seatle with relief drivers and get within 50 miles? And I do remember paying taxes for an Air Force that can go more than 50 miles. Then there are "ducks" that can go on both water and ground. As I remember the US supplied Berlin for many months starting with parachutes. And doesn't the navy have both planes and helicopters? And the very term marine signifies both land and sea. If they can't travel under these conditions how are they going to fight in worse conditions?