NationStates Jolt Archive

Fugitive Polygamist Leader Arrested (http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/fugitive-polygamist-leader-arrested/20060829095709990008)

About time they busted this nutjob freak. He's got settlements in more than one state including the infamous town of Colorado City, Arizona and a fortified compound in West Texas that well as might have been the next Mount Carmel.

Fugitive Polygamist Leader Arrested (http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/fugitive-polygamist-leader-arrested/20060829095709990008)

About time they busted this nutjob freak. He's got settlements in more than one state including the infamous town of Colorado City, Arizona and a fortified compound in West Texas that well as might have been the next Mount Carmel.

Hmm. So we handled it better this time, instead of having the military burn children to death.

Must be the difference in who is President, eh?

Hmm. So we handled it better this time, instead of having the military burn children to death.

Must be the difference in who is President, eh?

Explain? military burning kids?

And here was I thinking that sort of stuff only happened in the Middle East.

Hmm. So we handled it better this time, instead of having the military burn children to death.

Must be the difference in who is President, eh?

Explain? military burning kids?

And here was I thinking that sort of stuff only happened in the Middle East.

Also I think its the difference in the new person heading up the investigation in the FBI. Not really associated with Bush.

Hmm. So we handled it better this time, instead of having the military burn children to death.

Must be the difference in who is President, eh?

Explain? military burning kids?

And here was I thinking that sort of stuff only happened in the Middle East.

Also I think its the difference in the new person heading up the investigation in the FBI. Not really associated with Bush.

Im kind of suprised this guy hit FBIs top 10 most wanted list. Im not saying that his crimes wernt horrible or anything, but if you look at what he was actually charged with, i would think a L.A. gangbanger would rack up more serious charges on a good weekend. I envision the FBI top 10 being a long list of wanted serial killers and stuff. Guess not.

Hmm. So we handled it better this time, instead of having the military burn children to death.

Must be the difference in who is President, eh?

You mean the same President who sat there in class with My Pet Goat as the Twin Towers went down?

The same President who was actually going in the right direction with Afghanistan but then decided a neutered Saddam Hussein was suddenly an immenent threat... wait a terrorist supporter... no wait, a bad bad man who oppressed his people and started the quagmire in Iraq? The quagmire that also reduced proper attention and resources from Afghanistan to where the Taliban is making a comeback?

The same President who doesn't give a shit about where Bin Ladin is or what he's up to, much less be aware that a pedophilic Koresh-wannabe like Warren Jeffs exists?

The same President who said "Atta Boy Brownie" even as New Orleans turned into Atlantis?

Not a real surprise. You of all people trying to continually heap unearned praises on Dear Leader.

Explain? military burning kids?

And here was I thinking that sort of stuff only happened in the Middle East.

Also I think its the difference in the new person heading up the investigation in the FBI. Not really associated with Bush.

That's a reference to the outcome of the BATF siege on the Branch Davidian compount at Waco, TX in 1993 which ended with the destruction of the compound by fire.

Some say the fire was started by careless actions on the part of Federal forces, others believe the fire was ignited by the people in the building as a way to die as martyrs.

Must be the difference in who is President, eh?

doubtful, considering the numerous times bush the second has had children burned to death already.

Explain? military burning kids?

And here was I thinking that sort of stuff only happened in the Middle East.

Few Americans realize that on February 28, 1993 when BATF agents in National Guard helicopters zoomed in on the Branch Davidians' church and home, Mount Carmel Center, they did so with guns blazing, like Americans raiding a Vietnamese village in that far off war. ... It is likely FBI agents deliberately sabotaged negotiations with Davidians to prevent their exiting Mount Carmel. Their goal was to destroy the building and its damaging evidence, even if that meant the massacre of dozens of men, women and children, all witnesses to the brutal attack.

After the February raid by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) of David Koresh's dissident religious community at Waco, Texas, the FBI and the U.S. Army took over, mounting a 51-day siege. This included such psy-war tactics as sleep deprivation of the inhabitants of the community by means of all-night broadcasts of recordings of the screams of rabbits being slaughtered.

Finally, despite David Koresh's pledge to surrender upon completion of his written explanation of the meaning of the Seven Seals, the FBI and the Army attacked. At dawn on April 19, 1993, and throughout the morning, tanks rammed holes in the main building and pumped (in the FBI's words) "massive amounts" of CS gas into the building, despite knowing that inside were more than a dozen children. The tanks demolished parts of the compound and created tunnels for the wind to blow through. The buildings at this point were saturated with inflammable CS gas and spilled kerosene.

Around midday two U.S. military pyrotechnic devices were fired into the main building, igniting a fire which (because of the holes in the walls allowing the wind to gust through) spread rapidly through the complex of buildings and became an inferno. 74 men, women and children died — including twelve children younger than five years of age. Fire trucks were prevented by the FBI from approaching the inferno. After the compound had burned down the BATF flag was hoisted aloft to signify 'victory'. Subsequently the burned-out ruin was razed in an attempt to remove all evidence of this premeditated murder of innocent civilians by agents of the U.S. government. Thus occured an atrocity which many Americans believe could never happen in their country. A look at the evidence presented in the BBC documentary broadcast in the U.K. on November 28, 1998 shows that it did happen.

That's a reference to the outcome of the BATF siege on the Branch Davidian compount at Waco, TX in 1993 which ended with the destruction of the compound by fire.

Some say the fire was started by careless actions on the part of Federal forces, others believe the fire was ignited by the people in the building as a way to die as martyrs.

Most experts believe the davideans set the fire. ATF agents witnessed the male adults using the woman and children as human shields in the initial fire-fight, if fathers are willing to use their children as meat-shields it isn't very shocking that they would force them to commit mass-suicide.

A quick question... Why would the BATF be involved in polygamy? Are they the BATFM now?

Most experts believe the davideans set the fire. ATF agents witnessed the male adults using the woman and children as human shields in the initial fire-fight, if fathers are willing to use their children as meat-shields it isn't very shocking that they would force them to commit mass-suicide.

They could have picked David Koresh up in town days beforehand. He went to the local post office alone every day at the same time.

But no, they had to mount a frontal assault with military forces...

But no, they had to mount a frontal assault with military forces...
Ummm...am I wrong here or weren't they (Koresh and the Davidians) stockpiling weapons?

Ummm...am I wrong here or weren't they (Koresh and the Davidians) stockpiling weapons?

None of their weapons were illegal. All legally purchased, and legal to own.

"Stockpiling" is not a crime in the US.

None of their weapons were illegal. All legally purchased, and legal to own.
"Stockpiling" is not a crime in the US.
I know, I know....just that stockpiling looks a bit suspicious if you're a fundie group like Koresh

I know, I know....just that stockpiling looks a bit suspicious if you're a fundie group like Koresh

I have, within BATF limits (10,000 rounds per caliber), almost 80,000 rounds of ammunition in my house, and over 40 weapons.

And I'm a Pentacostal Christian.

The BATF field office has been invited to see it personally, and they say it's perfectly legal. So has the fire marshal.

Suspicious?

They could have easily arrested him, unarmed, in Waco, at the post office. It seems that Janet Reno was more concerned with making a big military show of blowing the place up with helicopters and tanks.

Few Americans realize that on February 28, 1993 when BATF agents in National Guard helicopters zoomed in on the Branch Davidians' church and home, Mount Carmel Center, they did so with guns blazing, like Americans raiding a Vietnamese village in that far off war. ... It is likely FBI agents deliberately sabotaged negotiations with Davidians to prevent their exiting Mount Carmel. Their goal was to destroy the building and its damaging evidence, even if that meant the massacre of dozens of men, women and children, all witnesses to the brutal attack.

"damaging evidence" of what?

"damaging evidence" of what?

You need to see the BBC special. Evidently, there was nothing illegal in the compound. After the initial abortive attack, they couldn't come up with a rational reason to arrest Koresh.

So, to cover that up, they made up stories about Koresh, and had the place burned to the ground. And conveniently, almost everyone died.

I have, within BATF limits (10,000 rounds per caliber), almost 80,000 rounds of ammunition in my house, and over 40 weapons.

And I'm a Pentacostal Christian.

The BATF field office has been invited to see it personally, and they say it's perfectly legal. So has the fire marshal.

Suspicious?

They could have easily arrested him, unarmed, in Waco, at the post office. It seems that Janet Reno was more concerned with making a big military show of blowing the place up with helicopters and tanks.

if your house catches fire, you better get the hell outta there quick-like.

P.S.-could you video-tape it:)

if your house catches fire, you better get the hell outta there quick-like.

P.S.-could you video-tape it:)

The explosive nature of small arms ammunition is overrated. Maybe you should read up on the subject - it was heavily experimented with by the NFPA (a firefighters' organization).

You need to see the BBC special. Evidently, there was nothing illegal in the compound. After the initial abortive attack, they couldn't come up with a rational reason to arrest Koresh.

So, to cover that up, they made up stories about Koresh, and had the place burned to the ground. And conveniently, almost everyone died.

What was the "initial abortive attack" based upon?

What was the "initial abortive attack" based upon?

The ATF's initial assault on Mt. Carmel was legally grounded on nothing more than a $200 weapons surchage that Koresh had failed to pay.

I've paid the same 200 dollar NFA tax myself, on weapons and suppressors.

Does that mean that if I'm late, the ATF can blow my house up?

http://www.metnews.com/articles/ruby0606.htm

And was it OK for an FBI sniper, at a distance of 85 yards (a distance at which head shots are typical, and nearly 100 percent accurate), to shoot an unarmed woman holding a baby in the head?

Claiming to be shooting at someone else?

And getting a medal and a promotion for doing so?

Looks like he might be in trouble.
http://www.metnews.com/articles/ruby0606.htm

Our heavily militarized police and government made a habit of this sort of thing in the 1990s.

A quick question... Why would the BATF be involved in polygamy? Are they the BATFM now?

During Waco they seemed to be the Bureau of FART, Firearms , Alcohol, Religion, and Tobacco

Those funny little weirdo churches are a threat. People don't like the sound of such communities in the lawless border areas of Pakistan and the ME Gulf, so I don't see why they should tolerate them in the very places where our governments do actually have jurisdiction. Anything but a programme of monitoring and if necessary, disbanding, represents double-standards.

Im kind of suprised this guy hit FBIs top 10 most wanted list. Im not saying that his crimes wernt horrible or anything, but if you look at what he was actually charged with, i would think a L.A. gangbanger would rack up more serious charges on a good weekend. I envision the FBI top 10 being a long list of wanted serial killers and stuff. Guess not.

local big city gang leader are much more dangerous but the fbi only deals with federal crime or crime that crosses state borders.

personally id think that there must be 10 members of ms-13 participating in multistate criminal activities who should be on the list above a polygamist no matter how many girls he forces into marriages.

local big city gang leader are much more dangerous but the fbi only deals with federal crime or crime that crosses state borders.

personally id think that there must be 10 members of ms-13 participating in multistate criminal activities who should be on the list above a polygamist no matter how many girls he forces into marriages.
The top criminals will never make it onto the list for the same reason they should be there - because they are that good. People who make it onto Most Wanted lists are usually there because they came second-best.

Those funny little weirdo churches are a threat. People don't like the sound of such communities in the lawless border areas of Pakistan and the ME Gulf, so I don't see why they should tolerate them in the very places where our governments do actually have jurisdiction. Anything but a programme of monitoring and if necessary, disbanding, represents double-standards.

Interestingly, there are also Muslim wacko compounds (in New York, New Jersey, Georgia, etc). No government agents seem to be monitoring them, either.

My pet theory is that Osama is safe and sound in the US. Our government is having more fun waging war overseas.

Probably more popular with constituents than waging one here.

Those funny little weirdo churches are a threat. People don't like the sound of such communities in the lawless border areas of Pakistan and the ME Gulf, so I don't see why they should tolerate them in the very places where our governments do actually have jurisdiction. Anything but a programme of monitoring and if necessary, disbanding, represents double-standards.

Because of a pesky right in America that guarentees freedom of religion no matter how funny they may seem to you.

You mean the same President who sat there in class with My Pet Goat as the Twin Towers went down?

-snip-
heh, way to bite the bait!

Because of a pesky right in America that guarentees freedom of religion no matter how funny they may seem to you.

*nod* We're only allowed to screw around with foreigner's religions.