NationStates Jolt Archive

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060828/3/2p31e.html

Sure, "explain" it to the women. I'm sure they'll understand that not being granted the basic right to get near the Kaaba is "equality".

Apparently, they've recently restricted access for women to the Prophet's Tomb in Medina as well.

Saudi clerics want to restrict women praying at Mecca
RIYADH (Reuters) - Saudi clerics want to impose restrictions on women praying at Islam's holiest shrine in Mecca, one of the few places where male and female worshippers can intermingle.

But women activists in Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of the religion where a strict version of Islam is state orthodoxy, say the idea is discriminatory and have vowed to oppose it.

At present, women can pray in the immediate vicinity of the Kaaba, a cube-shaped structure inside the mosque which pilgrims walk around seven times during the haj pilgrimage according to ancient rites established by Prophet Mohammad.

Plans by the all-male committee overseeing the holy sites would place women in a distant section of the mosque while men would still be able to pray in the key space.

"The area is very small and so crowded. So we decided to get women out of the 'sahn' (Kaaba area) to a better place where they can see the Kaaba and have more space," said Osama al-Bar, head of the Institute for Haj Research.

"Some women thought it wasn't good, but from our point of view it will be better for them ... We can sit with them and explain to them what the decision is (about)," he said. The decision is not final and could be reversed, he added.

The bolded part sounds like, "we'll tell them to shut up".

Women who choose to follow patriarchal religions should stop acting surprised when they are marginalized and devalued.

Women who choose to follow patriarchal religions should stop acting surprised when they are marginalized and devalued.

No kidding.

No kidding.
I really don't like to blame the victim, but there are limits.

If you go on a date with a guy and he smacks you across the face during dinner, then don't pretend to be shocked when he beats the shit out of you after you move in together. If you choose to belong to a religion that tells women to meekly submit and accept their inferior position in the world, don't pretend to be shocked when they treat you like inferior creatures.

I will agree with you that your abusive boyfriend is an asshole, and that he's full of shit when he tries to say it's for your own good. I will agree that the world would be better off without him. I will agree that he's out of line and a creep and an all-around jackass for behaving that way.

But please, spare me the lines about how shocked you are that he would treat you this way. Don't waste your time telling me about how much he really loves you deep down. Don't whine about how fulfilling your relationship is in every other way, if only he'd stop beating you. And for the love of dog, please do not tell me about how you're sure he'll change for you and stop beating you.

If you're ready to leave him, I will help you in any way I can. But until you are ready to leave, there's not a damn thing I can do for you.

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060828/3/2p31e.html

Sure, "explain" it to the women. I'm sure they'll understand that not being granted the basic right to get near the Kaaba is "equality".

Apparently, they've recently restricted access for women to the Prophet's Tomb in Medina as well.

The bolded part sounds like, "we'll tell them to shut up".

Sounds like a bad idea to me - if the girls are all at the back, I don't get to look at their derrieres....

Sounds like a bad idea to me - if the girls are all at the back, I don't get to look at their derrieres....

If you piss the women off, you don't get to have sex with them. Bad idea.

Women who choose to follow patriarchal religions should stop acting surprised when they are marginalized and devalued.
Fair enough, though most of the time being threatened with violence, abuse or death precludes any "choice" about their religion. Marginalization and devaluation more often precedes their religion and its precepts.

"a strict version of Islam"?
Pure spin by the Dishonest Liberal Media's PC-Nazis.

Time to call it what it is: "repressive", "intolerant", "backward," "primitive", "savage", "tyrannical". And if you really want to be honest about it, there's always "the E-word."

____________

JC #24

"a strict version of Islam"?
Pure spin by the Dishonest Liberal Media's PC-Nazis.

Time to call it what it is: "repressive", "intolerant", "backward," "primitive", "savage", "tyrannical". And if you really want to be honest about it, there's always "the E-word."


"And for women are rights over men similar to those of men over women." Q'uran (2:228)

The theory of a homogenous religion is a myth, there are as many interpretations of the bible as there are christians, just like there are as many interpretations or the Q'uran as there are muslims

"a strict version of Islam"?
Pure spin by the Dishonest Liberal Media's PC-Nazis.

yeah get those pesky towel heads its not like I’ve ever met a Muslim who is tolerant and good to his wife:rolleyes: (yes there is a large number Muslims in the U.K as well time to start selling women!:rolleyes:)

I hope this doesn’t pass but it almost certainly will and there really isn’t a thing we can do about it I guess

yeah get those pesky towel heads its not like I’ve ever met a Muslim who is tolerant and good to his wife:rolleyes: (yes there is a large number Muslims in the U.K as well time to start selling women!:rolleyes:)

I hope this doesn’t pass but it almost certainly will and there really isn’t a thing we can do about it I guess

We can arm their women. :p

We can arm their women. :p

but where up against religious leaders here what are we going to arm the women with counter arguments? sources?

but where up against religious leaders here what are we going to arm the women with counter arguments? sources?

Oprah. :)

Oprah. :)

but how would we get the plane she’s on to take off?

but how would we get the plane she’s on to take off?

Have her swim.

"a strict version of Islam"?
Pure spin by the Dishonest Liberal Media's PC-Nazis.


Are you for real? Sometimes I think you've got to be someones idea of satire.


Time to call it what it is: "repressive", "intolerant", "backward," "primitive", "savage", "tyrannical". And if you really want to be honest about it, there's always "the E-word."

What's the "e-word?" Don't be a euro-wimp NM, tell us how you really feel.

Oprah. :)

*Shudder*

The use of Oprah should be considered a war crime.

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060828/3/2p31e.html

Sure, "explain" it to the women. I'm sure they'll understand that not being granted the basic right to get near the Kaaba is "equality".

Apparently, they've recently restricted access for women to the Prophet's Tomb in Medina as well.



The bolded part sounds like, "we'll tell them to shut up".

But as you wanted them all wiped out, why do you give a fuck now?

*Shudder*

The use of Oprah should be considered a war crime.

Should be, but isn't.


...yet. :)

Have her swim.

Oprah and all the drunken sailors in all the oceans…..

I hope this doesn’t pass but it almost certainly will and there really isn’t a thing we can do about it I guess

it might not, there have been a few feminist movements in Saudi Arabia:
http://www.freethechildren.com/pressroom/source/publications/Young_Saudi_Women_test_feminism_April13_2006.pdf#search=%22saudi%20arabia%20feminism%22

and I saw a documentary about views on women in Saudi Society it seems the only people against giving more rights to women are clerics and fundies.

Time to call it what it is: "repressive", "intolerant", "backward," "primitive", "savage", "tyrannical". And if you really want to be honest about it, there's always "the E-word."

As long as I'm allowed to use the same words to describe the religious right wing in America, that's fine by me. :)

"a strict version of Islam"?
Pure spin by the Dishonest Liberal Media's PC-Nazis.

Time to call it what it is: "repressive", "intolerant", "backward," "primitive", "savage", "tyrannical". And if you really want to be honest about it, there's always "the E-word."

____________

JC #24

I happen to think this about most religions

But as you wanted them all wiped out, why do you give a fuck now?

Wow, the thread where I discussed that was a hypothetical. It doesn't mean I don't care.

All hypothetical solutions to problems should be raised and discussed - not ignored because someone feels queasy about it.

And the point of your post just now is that I should not raise the fact that Islam considers women to be less deserving of religious access than men.

And the point of your post just now is that I should not raise the fact that Islam considers women to be less deserving of religious access than men.

Saudi Arabia considers women less deserving of religious access than men, one group of salafist clerics doesn't speak for 1,000,000,000 people

Saudi Arabia considers women less deserving of religious access than men, one group of salafist clerics doesn't speak for 1,000,000,000 people

Gee, they run Mecca. You aren't going to see any women at the Kaaba anymore, no matter what 1 billion others may think.

I really don't like to blame the victim, but there are limits.

If you go on a date with a guy and he smacks you across the face during dinner, then don't pretend to be shocked when he beats the shit out of you after you move in together. If you choose to belong to a religion that tells women to meekly submit and accept their inferior position in the world, don't pretend to be shocked when they treat you like inferior creatures.

I will agree with you that your abusive boyfriend is an asshole, and that he's full of shit when he tries to say it's for your own good. I will agree that the world would be better off without him. I will agree that he's out of line and a creep and an all-around jackass for behaving that way.

But please, spare me the lines about how shocked you are that he would treat you this way. Don't waste your time telling me about how much he really loves you deep down. Don't whine about how fulfilling your relationship is in every other way, if only he'd stop beating you. And for the love of dog, please do not tell me about how you're sure he'll change for you and stop beating you.

If you're ready to leave him, I will help you in any way I can. But until you are ready to leave, there's not a damn thing I can do for you.

I agree with you in spirit, but in this case, it just isn't that simple. Leaving Islam is IIRC a capital crime in Saudi Arabia, so they have no options other than to reform the religion they're trapped in.

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060828/3/2p31e.html

Sure, "explain" it to the women. I'm sure they'll understand that not being granted the basic right to get near the Kaaba is "equality".

Apparently, they've recently restricted access for women to the Prophet's Tomb in Medina as well.



The bolded part sounds like, "we'll tell them to shut up".

The more I know about these countries, the more I despise them.

Women who choose to follow patriarchal religions should stop acting surprised when they are marginalized and devalued.
Islam doesn't have to be patriarchal, though this is no surprise from Saudi Arabia.

yeah get those pesky towel heads its not like I’ve ever met a Muslim who is tolerant and good to his wife:rolleyes: (yes there is a large number Muslims in the U.K as well time to start selling women!:rolleyes:)

I hope this doesn’t pass but it almost certainly will and there really isn’t a thing we can do about it I guess
He's clearly talking Saudi/Wahabist Islam, rather than the religion in general.

As long as I'm allowed to use the same words to describe the religious right wing in America, that's fine by me. :)
What is it always assumed that the people who criticise extreme Islam endorse extreme American Christianity?

Wow, the thread where I discussed that was a hypothetical. It doesn't mean I don't care.

All hypothetical solutions to problems should be raised and discussed - not ignored because someone feels queasy about it.
So why do you promote this hypothetical solution more than any others, just be an NS "shock jock"?

If you piss the women off, you don't get to have sex with them. Bad idea.

In a Moslem country the women can't deny their husbands sex - there's no such animal as "not tonight, dear, I have a headache." If a woman says no, he'll just do it anyway. Here it's called rape, there it's sex.

Cripes. "Yes, we'll explain it to them...after all, as the supreme rulers and protectors of the universe, we men know what's good for women."

Never fails.

In a Moslem country the women can't deny their husbands sex - there's no such animal as "not tonight, dear, I have a headache." If a woman says no, he'll just do it anyway. Here it's called rape, there it's sex.

You know, there hasn't really been a precedent set for marital rape here either.

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060828/3/2p31e.html

Sure, "explain" it to the women. I'm sure they'll understand that not being granted the basic right to get near the Kaaba is "equality".

Apparently, they've recently restricted access for women to the Prophet's Tomb in Medina as well.



The bolded part sounds like, "we'll tell them to shut up".

It's just Church business, or should be anyway. Living in a theocracy makes it a little more complicated.

In a Moslem country the women can't deny their husbands sex - there's no such animal as "not tonight, dear, I have a headache." If a woman says no, he'll just do it anyway. Here it's called rape, there it's sex.
If you think it's any different here in the US, you're living in a dream world. It's only been in recent years that marital rape has been acknowledged as a crime in the US, and most states still allow marriage as an exemption from rape charges. Some states even extend the "marriage exemption" to unmarried cohabitants. Delaware extends it to dates.

25% of the rapes that occur in the US are commited by a husband against his wife. One out of seven married American women will be raped by her husband.

As an American woman, I think we need to take care of our own problems before we bitch about how the Moslems over there treat their women. As long as one in four American woman can look forward to being raped in her lifetime, Americans have NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to bitch about how other nations abuse their women. As long as 25% of our women can look forward to being battered by their intimate partner, we have NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to point fingers at other nations.

We are utter and complete failures when it comes to stopping this particular form of domestic terrorism. This kind of terrorism poses a much more immediate and deadly threat to the majority of Americans than does ANYTHING that any radical Muslims have ever done to us.

If you think it's any different here in the US, you're living in a dream world. It's only been in recent years that marital rape has been acknowledged as a crime in the US, and most states still allow marriage as an exemption from rape charges. Some states even extend the "marriage exemption" to unmarried cohabitants. Delaware extends it to dates.

25% of the rapes that occur in the US are commited by a husband against his wife. One out of seven married American women will be raped by her husband.

As an American woman, I think we need to take care of our own problems before we bitch about how the Moslems over there treat their women. As long as one in four American woman can look forward to being raped in her lifetime, Americans have NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to bitch about how other nations abuse their women. As long as 25% of our women can look forward to being battered by their intimate partner, we have NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to point fingers at other nations.

We are utter and complete failures when it comes to stopping this particular form of domestic terrorism. This kind of terrorism poses a much more immediate and deadly threat to the majority of Americans than does ANYTHING that any radical Muslims have ever done to us.

In Virginia, it was legal to beat your wife until 1986. And the attitude has been equally slow to change.

In Virginia, it was legal to beat your wife until 1986. And the attitude has been equally slow to change.
Men who beat up total strangers spend an average of 6 years MORE than those who commit the same offense against their own wives. Guess that pretty much says everything you need to know about the "sanctity" of marriage vows in the US.

<snipped long sensible point, leaving:>

We are utter and complete failures when it comes to stopping this particular form of domestic terrorism. This kind of terrorism poses a much more immediate and deadly threat to the majority of Americans than does ANYTHING that any radical Muslims have ever done to us.

I do that. Having made a very strong point, I give myself leave to speculate in the very last paragraph, and say something stupid. 'Majority of Americans' refers to the slim majority of North Americans who are female, not the married ones. And "deadly?" Sheesh.
I'd say that recognizing a problem is the first step. As you well pointed out in the post I (partially) quoted, it wasn't even recognized a few decades ago. "Utter and complete failure" is a bit harsh.

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060828/3/2p31e.html

Sure, "explain" it to the women. I'm sure they'll understand that not being granted the basic right to get near the Kaaba is "equality".

Apparently, they've recently restricted access for women to the Prophet's Tomb in Medina as well.

The bolded part sounds like, "we'll tell them to shut up".
I find it kind of ironic that you are even attempting to defend Muslim womens' rights since you would like to sterilize them out of existence. :rolleyes:

WHAT!

ISLAM DENYING WOMEN'S RIGHTS?

WHAT A SURPIRSE!


Seriously though, its terrible, but is it really a surprise to anyone here?

I do that. Having made a very strong point, I give myself leave to speculate in the very last paragraph, and say something stupid. 'Majority of Americans' refers to the slim majority of North Americans who are female, not the married ones.

Domestic violence and domestic rape harms the majority of Americans, even if they themselves are not the direct victims of the abuse. Keep in mind that women who are abused and raped by their husbands are quite frequently abused and raped in view of their children. Keep in mind that such abuse touches more people than simply the perp and victim; if you have ever had a loved one who was battered, I'm guessing you will understand the harm that it does to you and to your life. Keep in mind that even those individuals who escape having contact with abuse themselves are still suffering from the realities of living in a culture where women are routinely raped and battered by their intimate partners.

According to the CDC, domestic violence, as a health problem, impacts more than 10% of the American population. That is over 30 million individuals.

Read what I posted originally. I said, "This kind of terrorism poses a much more immediate and deadly threat to the majority of Americans than does ANYTHING that any radical Muslims have ever done to us." That is factually true. The majority of Americans are statistically far more likely to be personally harmed by domestic violence than they are to be harmed by radical Muslims. The majority of Americans are more likely to be killed as a result of domestic violence than they are to be killed by radical Muslims. And the margin isn't even remotely close.


And "deadly?" Sheesh.

Domestic violence is more deadly to Americans than Muslim terrorism by such a huge margin that the two cannot even be compared.

An American woman is more likely to be struck by lightning while cashing in the winning lottery ticket than she is to be the target of an attack by a Muslim terrorist group. At the same time, she has a 1 in 4 chance she will be battered by her own boyfriend or husband, as well as a 1 in 4 chance she will be raped. The leading cause of death among pregnant American women is murder by their intimate partner.


I'd say that recognizing a problem is the first step. As you well pointed out in the post I (partially) quoted, it wasn't even recognized a few decades ago. "Utter and complete failure" is a bit harsh.
The fact that these problems persist in this country, on this scale, in this day and age, is a disgrace. It is my opinion that America, as a whole, has offered an absolutely pathetic effort on the subject of domestic violence. I do not believe there is any excuse for it, nor is there any excuse for finger-pointing at other countries so long as these problems persist within our own nation.

Men who beat up total strangers spend an average of 6 years MORE than those who commit the same offense against their own wives. Guess that pretty much says everything you need to know about the "sanctity" of marriage vows in the US.

I've had women shelter at my house over the past few years, and our struggle with local magistrates to obtain something as simple as a protective order have been mindboggling, to say the least.

There's nothing like showing a battered woman to a magistrate, along with a log of the man's stalking activities, and photos of his stalking, and having the magistrate laugh and say it's just harmless relationship problems.

If you think it's any different here in the US, you're living in a dream world. It's only been in recent years that marital rape has been acknowledged as a crime in the US
If it has been acknowledged as a crime in the US and not in Saudi Arabia, then surely there is a difference?

As an American woman, I think we need to take care of our own problems before we bitch about how the Moslems over there treat their women. As long as one in four American woman can look forward to being raped in her lifetime, Americans have NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to bitch about how other nations abuse their women.
I've never understood the line of thinking that says "we have to be perfect in order to criticise anyone else". Can you rationalise it?

It is hypocritical to support, or fail to work against domestic abuse at home and criticise it abroad. But it's entirely consistent to oppose domestic abuse no matter where in the world it happens.

It sounds like your magistrates may be having some "just harmless relationship problems" himself

redacted. Replies I hadn't seen.

If you piss the women off, you don't get to have sex with them. Bad idea.

No. Wife denying sex to husband is "unislamic"

http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IEH20060826014351&Topic=0&Title=Top%20Stories&Page=H
'Wife stopping husband from having sex un-Islamic'
Saturday August 26 2006 12:05 IST

ANI

ISLAMABAD: A woman Member of National Assembly (MNA) in Pakistan has said that married women in her country should not be treated like “buffaloes” when it comes to men forcing sex on them, and be given due respect.

Kashmala Tariq, who is also a member of the NA’s Select Committee on Women’s Protection Bill, proposed that a husband having sex with his wife without her consent “should be tried under rape charges”.

Men should not have sex with their wives against their will, the Daily Times quoted her as saying.

According to her, other members of the committee, including Mehnaz Rafi, Zahid Hamid and Wasim Sajjad, had endorsed her viewpoint.

However, Rashmala’s proposal received a jolt when federal Minister of State for Religious Affairs, Dr Aamir Liaqat Hussain opposed her idea saying that it was “un-Islamic to stop husbands from having sex with their wives even if they were doing so without their consent”.

No. Wife denying sex to husband is "unislamic"

http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IEH20060826014351&Topic=0&Title=Top%20Stories&Page=H

Oops. So she might risk stoning, or something like that.

And the man would be saying, "Well, I was only being Islamic..."

Domestic violence and domestic rape harms the majority of Americans, even if they themselves are not the direct victims of the abuse.
Terrorism in a nutshell. If you count psychological harm, you must concede to terrorists a lot more influence than just taking lives.
Keep in mind that women who are abused and raped by their husbands are quite frequently abused and raped in view of their children. if they have children. Keep in mind that such abuse touches more people than simply the perp and victim; if you have ever had a loved one who was battered, I'm guessing you will understand the harm that it does to you and to your life. Keep in mind that even those individuals who escape having contact with abuse themselves are still suffering from the realities of living in a culture where women are routinely raped and battered by their intimate partners. Suffering from, or benefiting from. Of course we don't consider the benefits to abusive men, of being able to get their way by referring to this 'dominant paridigm' of abuse. They don't need to bash or rape anyone, it's been done already. They only need to say "any other bloke would punch your head in for that. But I'm a new age guy, can't we come to some agreement?"
According to the CDC, domestic violence, as a health problem, impacts more than 10% of the American population. That is over 30 million individuals. You have statistics. I don't. I concede that point. 10% is close to a majority. :P
Read what I posted originally. I said, "This kind of terrorism poses a much more immediate and deadly threat to the majority of Americans than does ANYTHING that any radical Muslims have ever done to us." That is factually true. The majority of Americans are statistically far more likely to be personally harmed by domestic violence than they are to be harmed by radical Muslims. The majority of Americans are more likely to be killed as a result of domestic violence than they are to be killed by radical Muslims.
That's the bit I described as an excellent post, or similar. It's irreproachable, impeccable, and outstandingly correct. My objection was to the last paragraph, and it goes to style (that's me, style above substance, means above end.) I think I already acknowledged that your post was correct, but I claimed it was overstated at the end. This I saw as a failure of style -- but I guess constructive criticism is so rare here as to be easily mistaken for irony. It wasn't.
And the margin isn't even remotely close.

Domestic violence is more deadly to Americans than Muslim terrorism by such a huge margin that the two cannot even be compared.

An American woman is more likely to be struck by lightning while cashing in the winning lottery ticket than she is to be the target of an attack by a Muslim terrorist group.
You love an argument, don't you? Half the victims of 9/11 were female (yep, that's a comlete guess ... but it was early in the working day, and the top execs weren't there yet, so ...) and you'll be ready with the list of one thousand plus lottery ticket winners who have been struck by lightning ... won't you? :) At the same time, she has a 1 in 4 chance she will be battered by her own boyfriend or husband, as well as a 1 in 4 chance she will be raped. The leading cause of death among pregnant American women is murder by their intimate partner. Strong point. As I think I said before, I agree with you. I'm contesting the style. And here, right here, is a good example. Are pregnant women an at-risk group? Is an adult woman more or less likely to die while pregnant, compared to a woman who isn't? And mightn't economic factors (child support) explain this, rather more plainly than calling it "terrorism"?

The fact that these problems persist in this country, on this scale, in this day and age, is a disgrace. It is my opinion that America, as a whole, has offered an absolutely pathetic effort on the subject of domestic violence. I do not believe there is any excuse for it, nor is there any excuse for finger-pointing at other countries so long as these problems persist within our own nation.
It's a struggle. It's a fight that might yet be lost. To call it a disgrace, to call it pathetic, is either to concede defeat, or to call for the 'bad means justify a good end' nonsense which is being invoked against recognized terrorism.

It's a struggle. It's a fight that might yet be lost. To call it a disgrace, to call it pathetic, is either to concede defeat, or to call for the 'bad means justify a good end' nonsense which is being invoked against recognized terrorism.

On the contrary - to call it pathetic is to point out that the effort that is being made by the 'powers that be' is pitiful... little more than a gesture. Which is true.

But, it's just not a big agenda item... it doesn't look set to rake in votes, and might actually cost votes... because there is still (even in this supposedly civilised day and age) a percentage of the population that believes domestic violence is either 'okay'... or something that one partner 'signs-up-for' when they agree to marry (or, I guess, live with) the other.

It's a struggle. It's a fight that might yet be lost. To call it a disgrace, to call it pathetic, is either to concede defeat, or to call for the 'bad means justify a good end' nonsense which is being invoked against recognized terrorism.
I don't see how terrorism is related to this thread.

Again I'd like to raise the point that all abuse of human rights should be criticised.

Funny how people just acknowledge the stereotype of 'ISLAM IS TEH EVIL PAEOPLE!!11LOLOL' and forget that Saudi Arabia is not considered to be following true Islamic principles by the entire muslim world or that the whole Islamic religion and it's application in Saudi arabia is being used as a facade by the royal family to appease the crazy fanatics they have out there,so they don't start attacking the government like in Egypt and Yemen.

Funny how also people like to condemn the entire nation because of the actions of a few dumbass princes.As if all Saudis support every damn thing they do.

Finally,it's really funny how no-one has ever been to Saudi but thinks,'Oh,everyone there is a crazy backwards-ass fuck up muslim!' without even trying to understand anything about the religion.And even if they try or are forced to,approach with a 'oh,how...stupid.' attitude.

It's really funny to me,honestly.

I'm probably going to be debated on this one.

Funny how people just acknowledge the stereotype of 'ISLAM IS TEH EVIL PAEOPLE!!11LOLOL' and forget that Saudi Arabia is not considered to be following true Islamic principles by the entire muslim world or that the whole Islamic religion and it's application in Saudi arabia is being used as a facade by the royal family to appease the crazy fanatics they have out there,so they don't start attacking the government like in Egypt and Yemen.

They actually follow a form of Sunni Islam called Salafism, or Wahhabism. You are correct, it is in fact a minority but the UAE also treats women the same way, its not just the Saudi royals.

Funny how also people like to condemn the entire nation because of the actions of a few dumbass princes.As if all Saudis support every damn thing they do.

In the first democratic election saudi Arabia had, for regional and local reps.(royal family still controls country) several woman ran for election, before clerics got it outlawed...

Feminism is on the rise whether the royal family likes it or not, some women actually prefer to be servile, to each her own I guess...

I'm probably going to be debated on this one.

prepare to be called an Apologist, a PC-Nazi, and a Taquiiya conspirator.

Funny how people just acknowledge the stereotype of 'ISLAM IS TEH EVIL PAEOPLE!!11LOLOL' and forget that Saudi Arabia is not considered to be following true Islamic principles by the entire muslim world

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megawati_Sukarnoputri
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benazir_Bhutto
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tansu_Ciller
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaleda_Zia

All these woman were elected as leaders of their countries from top to bottom:
Indonesia
Pakistan
Turkey
Bangladesh
all of which are predominately muslim countries.
Who was America's last female president? oh, wait......

They actually follow a form of Sunni Islam called Salafism, or Wahhabism. You are correct, it is in fact a minority but the UAE also treats women the same way, its not just the Saudi royals.



In the first democratic election saudi Arabia had, for regional and local reps.(royal family still controls country) several woman ran for election, before clerics got it outlawed...

Feminism is on the rise whether the royal family likes it or not, some women actually prefer to be servile, to each her own I guess...



prepare to be called an Apologist, a PC-Nazi, and a Taquiiya conspirator.

Yes,I know that the Saudi government preaches Wahabism.I'm a Saudi,by the way.They're probably going to trace me now because of my conversion to Buddhism(oops,that's supposed to be a secret:D ),the things I've said on the forum and all that jazz,but hey...Freedom isn't a thing to be wasted.I'm not a very good Buddhist anyway.

Good thing I don't live in Saudi,I'd probably be found within an hour.

The U.A.E. is far more liberal than Saudi Arabia,though they are still conservative.Hell,Iran is more liberal than Saudi Arabia.

I don't beleive in femenism.I beleive in equality for women,but not those extra special sugar coated rights women should they should get.I'll give you an example if you like.If you want to be equal,be equal.If you want special rights,then you get treated differently.It can't be a mix,because those two choices are polar opposites.I'm not saying that I support women getting exploited or hurt in any way or form immorally by men.

Great...someone is probably going to use that quote...and next thing you know, I'm a crazy muslim wife beater or something... :headbang:

I'm not an apologist,by the way.I'm not muslim.I just don't like stereotypes or that unnecessary feeling, hatred.

I don't beleive in femenism.I beleive in equality for women
:confused:

I'm probably going to be debated on this one.

Funny how the supposed 1 billion other Muslims aren't going to stop this from happenning.

Funny how they let Saudi Arabia run Mecca any way they like.

Funny how there isn't anything in the press about outrage from Muslims worldwide about women being excluded.

Funny how there isn't any rioting and burning by millions of outraged Muslims over this travesty (and supposed abuse of their own religion).

Funny.

Funny how the supposed 1 billion other Muslims aren't going to stop this from happenning.

Funny how they let Saudi Arabia run Mecca any way they like.

Funny how there isn't anything in the press about outrage from Muslims worldwide about women being excluded.

Funny how there isn't any rioting and burning by millions of outraged Muslims over this travesty (and supposed abuse of their own religion).

Funny.
You are surprised that most humans are fairly lazy and unwilling to do anything about something that doesn't directly affect their lives?

You are surprised that most humans are fairly lazy and unwilling to do anything about something that doesn't directly affect their lives?

Millions of Muslims of all types go on the yearly pilgrimage.

I guess they're OK with the Wahhab kicking the women out.

Women who choose to follow patriarchal religions should stop acting surprised when they are marginalized and devalued.
Well I totally agree, I would never choose to follow such a religion... Though let's face the fact that almost no woman in Saudi Arabia is given a choice of religion...