NationStates Jolt Archive

My hard-drive is messed up. At this point, I don't think anything less than a format will work, and even that might not work; I might need a low-level format. I've been spending all day trying to repair it to salvage extremely valuable data that I have on it; I had the option to format from the very beginning.

The problem is that in whatever way I access it, I can only see the Master Boot Record part of it. 3 megs out of 10 megs are free. My hard drive has a capacity of 250 gigs.

When I do see what's on it, that being the MBR Partition, I see files and folders with weird symbols and characters in their names, and I cannot access any of them.

I tried using PartitionMagic, but it can't do anything. It sees the drive, and where it's supposed to say something like "FAT" or "NTFS", it says "BAD" and can't do anything to it.

Now I've reached the end. I am ready to low-level format my drive. But before I do, I am requesting help from these forums if there's any way I can salvage my data.

The data's there, probably unfettered, but I cannot access it. All I can see is a totally whacked out MBR. I'm open to suggestions, although to be honest, I've lost hope.

If needed, I can provide details about how my computer originially died, but I feel that only the current information is relevant to what I actually care about doing: retrieving my data.

Microsoft-based operating systems do not offer direct access to the MBR. In DOS or Windows 9x, the DOS-mode program fdisk with the (undocumented) switch /mbr will rewrite the MBR code. In Windows 2000 or later, the recovery console can be used to write new MBR code to a hard drive. Third-party utilities may be used to edit the partition table directly.

If you are backing up a hard drive, also known as ghosting, and are having issues with new hard drive saying the paging file is not found, then running 'fdisk /fixmbr', (done from a boot disk since cannot log into Windows), will most likely solve your problems.

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MBR#backing_up_the_MBR )

Of course, *nix operating systems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%2Anix) provide direct access to the MBR (a hard drive being represented as a simple file, and the first 512 bytes thereof constituting the MBR), making backup and restoration a matter of executing two simple shell commands (it also makes fragging the MBR a matter of executing one simple shell command...fear the power of almighty root (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superuser)).

At any rate, restoration of one's very important data is likewise extremely simple. Simply restore from one's backups. We are keeping backups, right? :(

At any rate, restoration of one's very important data is likewise extremely simple. Simply restore from one's backups. We are keeping backups, right? :(

No.

No.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk or anything, but backups are probably the most important step to take in maintaining and securing a computer system; both my hardware and network security textbooks go to great lengths to pound this point into their readers. Sure, it's probably time consuming and tedious, but when a hard drive craps out (and it's only a matter of time) one won't be completely screwed.

Other than that, I don't otherwise know how to help. :(

I'm sorry my friend, at this point your only hope are the professional experts. Those services are expensive - is the data worth it?

*Thank myself for weekly backups*

Well this was useless. All I got was "you should've done backups". At least in the other forums they tried to help.

Well this was useless. All I got was "you should've done backups". At least in the other forums they tried to help.
Only in Hollywood movies does an unconventionally attractive stranger whip out a laptop, "regurgitate the deconflopulator matrix" and hand you a cheap date afterwards.

In the real world, the solution is good folder organisation and a regular copying of important files to CD, USB or external HDD, which are then (and this is an important point) stored at a separate address.

I have seen this happen myself. A guy toasted his only copy of a vital file, but luckily he had e-mailed one to me, which was stored in 6-8 different places afterwards. The second time he lost data, he had neglected to pass it on to me beforehand. I didn't think much of him.

I have seen this happen myself. A guy toasted his only copy of a vital file, but luckily he had e-mailed one to me, which was stored in 6-8 different places afterwards. The second time he lost data, he had neglected to pass it on to me beforehand. I didn't think much of him.

Well, I've never even thought of backups. Only recently (and before the holier-than-thou replies in this forum) I realized that maybe I should back up some important files.

I'm not going to go to serious lengths to back up stuff, though, it's not worth the trouble. But the occassional small files that are more valuable than others, I'm going to back up every couple of weeks.

Now, regardless of whether or not I've had an epiphany with backups, I'd like some help with my current situation, not assuming that I have some sort of time-machine. Added: ...please.

Now, regardless of whether or not I've had an epiphany with backups, I'd like some help with my current situation, not assuming that I have some sort of time-machine. Added: ...please.

Have you tried the fdisk or recovery console, fixmbr command that was suggested above ? Or looked at the partition table directly ? http://www.geocities.com/thestarman3/asm/mbr/MBR_in_detail.htm contains readable info. http://www.sysint.no/en/Download.aspx has a nice tool.

If none of these work, I have heard positive reports about http://www.uneraser.com/ . However, that costs money.

Well this was useless. All I got was "you should've done backups". At least in the other forums they tried to help.
Keep in mind that this is a political forum. Most people here are lost at the term MBR.

EDIT: Why is everyone making a fuss about the MBR anyway? He said it was the only part of the drive that is still functioning correctly.

Im gonna better ya one, and not even offer any advice, and simply point and laugh at you

-points and laughs-

Have you tried the fdisk or recovery console, fixmbr command that was suggested above ? Or looked at the partition table directly ? http://www.geocities.com/thestarman3/asm/mbr/MBR_in_detail.htm contains readable info. http://www.sysint.no/en/Download.aspx has a nice tool.

If none of these work, I have heard positive reports about http://www.uneraser.com/ . However, that costs money.

Fdisk formats the disk. Fixmbr (and fixboot) was what originally messed up my HDD beyond data retrieval.

Look at the partition table with what? PartitionMagic? It just says the drive is "BAD" and can't do anything to it. If I try to look at the hard drive and see what's on it, I can only see the MBR portion of it, which is totally messed.

what was your original file system? FAT16, FAT32 or NTFS?

Did you loose the HDD via software or physical (did you drop it for example)?

Have you run chkdsk from the command line?

Can you boot into the OS?

Stop downloading so much porn.

Fdisk formats the disk. Fixmbr (and fixboot) was what originally messed up my HDD beyond data retrieval.

Fdisk can also restore partition tables; though under XP fixmbr should be the right choice.

Look at the partition table with what?

Good old "debug", or a slightly more advanced hex editor.

One option I forgot about: download knoppix, burn it on cd and try to access the drive under a linux environment. If the drive was ntfs you will probably not be able to write to it, but reading the data and moving it to other media (cd-rw or usb sticks) will at least save your data.

And I assume you have checked that your bios is actually recognising your harddrive correctly ?

what was your original file system? FAT16, FAT32 or NTFS?

NTFS

Did you loose the HDD via software or physical (did you drop it for example)?

Software.

Have you run chkdsk from the command line?

I read a quick fix for what was my problem at the time. "Windows\System32\Config\System is missing or corrupt". I needed to enter system recovery and enter eight commands.

Attrib -H C:\Boot.ini
Attrib -S C:\Boot.ini
Attrib -R C:\Boot.ini
Del boot.ini
Bootcfg /Rebuild
Chkdsk /r /f
Fixboot

Anything I did to boot.ini (the first four commands) I couldn't do as it said that the file could not be opened, like it's not there. Then I tried the bootcfg, and it said error and that something's messed and that I should run chkdsk. I ran chkdsk and it asked me where to find autochk.exe, which I didn't know. Fixboot was the only one that worked, but I think it messed up my computer instead.

Can you boot into the OS?

Nope, it say "NTLDR is missing" and let me warn you that my MBR Partition is truly messed up.

Fdisk can also restore partition tables; though under XP fixmbr should be the right choice.

I think Fixmbr is what messed up my computer instead.

Good old "debug", or a slightly more advanced hex editor.

I'll try it, but it'll probably ask me for something debug.exe... which is incredibly stupid.

One option I forgot about: download knoppix, burn it on cd and try to access the drive under a linux environment. If the drive was ntfs you will probably not be able to write to it, but reading the data and moving it to other media (cd-rw or usb sticks) will at least save your data.

And I assume you have checked that your bios is actually recognising your harddrive correctly ?

The knoppix was suggested in another forum, but it didn't work. It didn't boot. I'm thinking maybe there was something bad in the writing process.

BIOS recognizes all my drives correctly, and boots them in the order of floppy, DVD Drive, HD Drive.

Fdisk can also restore partition tables; though under XP fixmbr should be the right choice.



Good old "debug", or a slightly more advanced hex editor.

One option I forgot about: download knoppix, burn it on cd and try to access the drive under a linux environment. If the drive was ntfs you will probably not be able to write to it, but reading the data and moving it to other media (cd-rw or usb sticks) will at least save your data.

And I assume you have checked that your bios is actually recognising your harddrive correctly ?

yup...was gonna say try a CD based OS....good call!!!

Now I'm going back to my field engineering days (gulp!) which was a very long time ago so I could well be talking bollocks but what about something like laplink to move the files...so at least you have the data....

The knoppix was suggested in another forum, but it didn't work. It didn't boot. I'm thinking maybe there was something bad in the writing process.

You seem to have access to a working computer - can you try the cd there to check the "bad burn" hypothesis ?

NTFS



Software.



I read a quick fix for what was my problem at the time. "Windows\System32\Config\System is missing or corrupt". I needed to enter system recovery and enter eight commands.

Attrib -H C:\Boot.ini
Attrib -S C:\Boot.ini
Attrib -R C:\Boot.ini
Del boot.ini
Bootcfg /Rebuild
Chkdsk /r /f
Fixboot

Anything I did to boot.ini (the first four commands) I couldn't do as it said that the file could not be opened, like it's not there. Then I tried the bootcfg, and it said error and that something's messed and that I should run chkdsk. I ran chkdsk and it asked me where to find autochk.exe, which I didn't know. Fixboot was the only one that worked, but I think it messed up my computer instead.



Nope, it say "NTLDR is missing" and let me warn you that my MBR Partition is truly messed up.



I think Fixmbr is what messed up my computer instead.



I'll try it, but it'll probably ask me for something debug.exe... which is incredibly stupid.



The knoppix was suggested in another forum, but it didn't work. It didn't boot. I'm thinking maybe there was something bad in the writing process.

BIOS recognizes all my drives correctly, and boots them in the order of floppy, DVD Drive, HD Drive.


oh dear. thats is not good....I've not seen a disc error and NTLDR at the same time before...hate to say this but from my view you will need to rebuild the machine...but that means bye bye data .... so all you can do is figure out how to get the data...

Have you tried putting the disk onto another machine as a slave drive and seeig if you can get into the data that way?

I am surprised the Koppix did not work....try changing the BIOS so it boots from CD drive first....

You seem to have access to a working computer - can you try the cd there to check the "bad burn" hypothesis ?

I cannot. I burned it to DVD-RW when my dad was asleep.

My dad is very opposed to me wasting more time over trying to get my data. He's convinced that I can do nothing more. If I were able to check it with his DVD Drive, I'd write a CD-R with the Knoppix.

My hypothesis comes from it saying "Burn Process Failed" right at the end, but all the files being there. I think I tried to write anothing thing to this specific DVD-RW, and it said the same thing, but it could install the things that were on it.

oh dear. thats is not good....I've not seen a disc error and NTLDR at the same time before...hate to say this but from my view you will need to rebuild the machine...but that means bye bye data .... so all you can do is figure out how to get the data...

Well the disc error was first, and then I did fixboot and fixmbr, and then came NTLDR. Me and my dad both know that the HD is so messed, that I'll need a low-level format to make it fine. The problem is that the data is still there, and I can't get at it.

Have you tried putting the disk onto another machine as a slave drive and seeig if you can get into the data that way?

Yes. All that it shows is a 10mb partition with files and folders that have very weird characters and symbols. I'm guessing this is the MBR partition, but I do not know why it only shows me this.

I am surprised the Koppix did not work....try changing the BIOS so it boots from CD drive first....

I'll try to write it to a CD without the error, but I have to get past my dad.

Well the disc error was first, and then I did fixboot and fixmbr, and then came NTLDR. Me and my dad both know that the HD is so messed, that I'll need a low-level format to make it fine. The problem is that the data is still there, and I can't get at it.

Yes. All that it shows is a 10mb partition with files and folders that have very weird characters and symbols. I'm guessing this is the MBR partition, but I do not know why it only shows me this.

I'll try to write it to a CD without the error, but I have to get past my dad.

Good luck!!! Tell us how it goes...I think the Koppix thing is prob the best way to at the moment...

Good luck!!! Tell us how it goes...I think the Koppix thing is prob the best way to at the moment...

Thanks.

Currently, I'm at a stalemate. I'm not willing to format my drive while I still think there's a way to save my data. However, I cannot use that way because then my dad will get very angry. At least until he leaves the house or takes a nap, and then I'd be able try this last method to save my data, and it will work or won't work, and then I'd be able to format.

Could I have more information about the Knoppix thing in the meantime please? Like exactly what does it contain? Could it also be used to install a later version of Linux? (by later version I just mean that I have a really old version of Linux)

Maybe this will help: http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk

to be honest I am not a Linux person....what I was thinking was getting Koppix up and running so that you could back up your files....

I guess The Alma Mater is the one to speak to....

Maybe this will help: http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk

Do I have to write a CD to do it, or is it small enough for a floppy? Also, can it boot?

Do I have to write a CD to do it, or is it small enough for a floppy? Also, can it boot?

It's small. You can create a DOS boot floppy with it on. Some Linux Live CD versions include it, too.

Could I have more information about the Knoppix thing in the meantime please? Like exactly what does it contain? Could it also be used to install a later version of Linux?

Knoppix basicly is a complete linux distribution designed to run directly from a cd on a wide variety of hardware, without needing to write anything to the harddrive. Besides the Debian based linux kernel and an impressive amount of drivers it contains the graphical working environment KDE, firefox, openoffice, the Gimp and several programming languages - as well as a few 100 minor tools.
None of those things are really relevant for the saving of your data; but that isn't knoppix main function. It is just a nice way to get to know linux without installing it which just happens to be able to read ntfs partitions. Optimistically assuming there still is something to read present.

It is possible to install knoppix to your harddrive from the cd, but you may prefer to use other distributions for that. Since it is meant to be run on a wide variety of hardware the knoppixkernel is somewhat bloated. As said, it will at least give you an indication if you will wish to install linux at all.

Knoppix basicly is a complete linux distribution designed to run directly from a cd on a wide variety of hardware, without needing to write anything to the harddrive. Besides the Debian based linux kernel and an impressive amount of drivers it contains the graphical working environment KDE, firefox, openoffice, the Gimp and several programming languages - as well as a few 100 minor tools.
None of those things are really relevant for the saving of your data; but that isn't knoppix main function. It is just a nice way to get to know linux without installing it which just happens to be able to read ntfs partitions. Optimistically assuming there still is something to read present.

It is possible to install knoppix to your harddrive from the cd, but you may prefer to use other distributions for that. Since it is meant to be run on a wide variety of hardware the knoppixkernel is somewhat bloated. As said, it will at least give you an indication if you will wish to install linux at all.

All of my Windows reading the drive can only see the MBR Partition of the drive. Can the Linux see beyond that? I can get a USB Storage Device, and copy things to that, then to my other hard drives, but I'm not sure how Linux could see the main partition while Windows can't.

All of my Windows reading the drive can only see the MBR Partition of the drive. Can the Linux see beyond that? I can get a USB Storage Device, and copy things to that, then to my other hard drives, but I'm not sure how Linux could see the main partition while Windows can't.

It won't. If your partition tables or MBR are messed up (and I think it's the partition tables by what you describe) Linux won't be able to do much either. It can help you repair your disk if it has the right utilities, though.

Look, I found this one: http://www.sysresccd.org/Main_Page

It's Linux distro in a CD with utilities to recover your hard drive.

Be aware that you HD could be fubar anyway.

It's small. You can create a DOS boot floppy with it on. Some Linux Live CD versions include it, too.

My Windows 95 boot floppies cannot see the hard drive, C:

My Windows 98 boot floppy doesn't work at all for some reason.

My Windows XP boot floppies provide no way to execute a .EXE file.

It won't. If your partition tables or MBR are messed up (and I think it's the partition tables by what you describe) Linux won't be able to do much either. It can help you repair your disk if it has the right utilities, though.

Linux is slightly better at reading fucked up partitions than windows; or to rephrase: slightly less fussy.
In a pessimistic case scenario you could dump the raw content of your harddrive on a nother device. .doc and .txt files will probably not be too fragmented and partially salvageable from there - provided you are willing to make the effort.

It won't. If your partition tables or MBR are messed up (and I think it's the partition tables by what you describe) Linux won't be able to do much either. It can help you repair your disk if it has the right utilities, though.

Look, I found this one: http://www.sysresccd.org/Main_Page

It's Linux distro in a CD with utilities to recover your hard drive.

Be aware that you HD could be fubar anyway.

I do not believe I have sufficient skill to repair my hard drive then. It's starting to look like my dad's right. I should stop wasting time, and get on with the low-level format.

My Windows 95 boot floppies cannot see the hard drive, C:

Have you tried installing the utility yet? DOS won't be able to see it, of course, but the utility by-passes the OS.

Linux is slightly better at reading fucked up partitions than windows; or to rephrase: slightly less fussy.

Windows can only read the MBR Partition. Will Linux/Knoppix be able to read the main partition?

In a pessimistic case scenario you could dump the raw content of your harddrive on a nother device. .doc and .txt files will probably not be too fragmented and partially salvageable from there - provided you are willing to make the effort.

Elaborate. I have Excel files that I wish to salvage, but what's this "effort" you're talking about? If I can see them, I can copy them...

My Windows 95 boot floppies cannot see the hard drive, C:

My Windows 98 boot floppy doesn't work at all for some reason.

My Windows XP boot floppies provide no way to execute a .EXE file.
I have used a McAfee recovery floppy disk for such purposes.

A couple of years ago, my WinME machine died. The HDD ceased to boot up. I booted into DOS from the floppy, replaced it with a blank floppy and started copying files.

Then I connected the HDD as a slave drive on another machine, and lo and behold, the floppy disk copying had been a waste of time because all the data was still there, albeit read-only. I could just drag and drop in Windows Explorer.

My advice at this point, try connecting the HDD as a slave on another machine, and try creating a general system floppy disk using someone else's utility software.

Have you tried installing the utility yet? DOS won't be able to see it, of course, but the utility by-passes the OS.

Yes, I've tried. It says that there are no hard drives.

My advice at this point, try connecting the HDD as a slave on another machine, and try creating a general system floppy disk using someone else's utility software.:

If I try to look at the hard drive and see what's on it, I can only see the MBR portion of it, which is totally messed.

All that it shows is a 10mb partition with files and folders that have very weird characters and symbols. I'm guessing this is the MBR partition, but I do not know why it only shows me this.

All of my Windows reading the drive can only see the MBR Partition of the drive.

I should probably mention something vaguely helpful about the McAfee disk I used, it was the sort of thing you create for use in the event that a virus owns your PC. When written, the disk will contain a basic boot utility, a few simple tools, virus scanner and library of virus definitions. Most of this you don't use of course (unless you need to go virus-hunting in DOS), you just use it to boot into <A:\> and hop down into <C:\> .

Hope that adequately describes what I'm getting at, though I suspect you are well-versed in all that stuff, and quite possibly screwed.

Hope that adequately describes what I'm getting at, though I suspect you are well-versed in all that stuff, and quite possibly screwed.

Yep. I'm gonna go ahead with the format right after I eat.

What you need is a forensic data recovery service....they should be in the phone book....and they are not cheap....

:
Ah. I see. Your data may well be physically inaccessible.

Unless there is some magic thingy of which someone knows, it could be a case of scanning the disk surface and copying its state to another, using a machine more expensive than can be grasped by the mortal mind of Man.

And if the hardware itself is fucked, forget the format, it's a paperweight.

Well this was useless. All I got was "you should've done backups". At least in the other forums they tried to help.

They tried, but obviosuly they failed.

The importane of Backign up your system can not be overlooked, so even though everybody else has said it, I'll say it again...
Always, always, always, back up your system.

Yes, I've tried. It says that there are no hard drives.

Ah, I see. I agree with TG. Your hd is fubar, maybe the data is recoverable with highly specialized equipment but it won't be cheap.

See if the formatting can make your disk usable again. No guarantees either, I'm afraid).

The HD is indeed FUBAR. Not only can I not access the data as it is right now, I hadn't run defragment, scandisk, or virusscans in months (used to be in my scheduled tasks, but I took them out and forgot about it). Even if I could some way get to the physical data, it's scattered around the hard drive like shit (literally lol).

Data recovery services aren't worth the money for the data. Besides, it's a good lesson in preparing for computer deaths. I will from now on do minor backups of what's most important, according to the level of importance. I will also split the HDD into 2 or 3 partitions. One for the operating system and one for the rest of my stuff, so in case the OS partition dies, I can still access the other. I might also install Linux, in another partition, and maybe keep my smaller important files like docs and xls's there.

I will commence a low-level format, which should format the entire drive all the way to factory settings, so unless there is physical damage or bad sectors, I'll be fine.

Now I've come to the point where I'm using my manufacturer's software to set up the hard-drive. I want to create 3 partitions, a 50 gig partition for my Windows OS and various program files, a 10 gig partition for my Linux OS and the rest for other stuff. What file system should I make them?

I'm thinking I should make them all Fat 32 so that they're readable, and I can switch to NTFS later. Out of curiosity, does Linux use NTFS?

Also, what cluster size should I have? What *IS* the significance of cluster size?

Well this was useless. All I got was "you should've done backups". At least in the other forums they tried to help.

How extremely valuable is the data? A friend of mine lost her basicly completed thesis when her hard drive died. Rather than repeat her final year of college she managed to get 99% of it recovered by shipping the hard drive off to be disassebled and the data read from the disc. As I recall it was about $1000 or so at the time to accomplish this.

Ah. I see. Your data may well be physically inaccessible.

Unless there is some magic thingy of which someone knows, it could be a case of scanning the disk surface and copying its state to another, using a machine more expensive than can be grasped by the mortal mind of Man.

And if the hardware itself is fucked, forget the format, it's a paperweight.

Yeah....he needs to gain access to the HDD disk controller...there is some s/w that can do it...

http://www.grc.com/srreview.htm

Gibson Research....I have 50/50 feelings about but only for a couple of esoteric reasons from a few years ago...otherwise this s/w could well be usefull...

But once again it must be looked at as a risk (as all things must be) and given due consideration...maybe this can help the Defiant one... :)

I'm thinking I should make them all Fat 32 so that they're readable, and I can switch to NTFS later. Out of curiosity, does Linux use NTFS?
Linux can read from NTFS but can't write to NTFS.

Also, what cluster size should I have? What *IS* the significance of cluster size?
You can think of it as the minimum size of a hard disk division. Files can be spread across several clusters, but one cluster can only belong to one file. A file will always occupy at least one cluster.

There are pros and cons to each cluster size. Put simply, if you have big files, the bigger clusters will keep them closer together in the disk but lots of smaller files will use more space. Smaller clusters will mean better use of the HD space, but files will be spread over more clusters making access potentially slower and causing more fragmentation.

In practical terms, I think a 16Kb cluster size is a good compromise.

Now I've come to the point where I'm using my manufacturer's software to set up the hard-drive. I want to create 3 partitions, a 50 gig partition for my Windows OS and various program files, a 10 gig partition for my Linux OS and the rest for other stuff. What file system should I make them?

I'm thinking I should make them all Fat 32 so that they're readable, and I can switch to NTFS later. Out of curiosity, does Linux use NTFS?

Also, what cluster size should I have? What *IS* the significance of cluster size?
You should use the Windows disk to create a NTFS partition for Window.

Then use your Linux disks to set up the other partitions. You have a choice here.

Set up one ext3 filesystem, then install a ext3 driver for Windows. Ext3 is the tried and true optition. It is not as fast or fancy as the other filesystems, but it is the most reliable and supported.

Or you could setup a small vfat(FAT32) and a ReiserFS partition. Reiser is fast and is quite stable. It is efficient with small files, and Linux has many small files. It does take a long time to mount a ReiserFS, which will add to your boot time.

Linux cannot use a FAT32 fs as the root fs.

The NTFS version of GetDataBack is pretty good. Ignores the MBR and scans the disk directly for any data.