NationStates Jolt Archive

Hope that Nagin has a better plan to use the local buses than he did the last time, and hope that FEMA does a better job than last time, and hope that the Governor of Louisiana does a better job...

of course, none of that will happen... I'm willing to bet that if the hurricane comes to New Orleans, it will be a complete clusterfuck, and we'll see pictures of hundreds of unused buses, people being rescued from rooftops, people sitting around without food or water in the Convention center, and the local, state, and Federal government doing what they do best - screwing up.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/storm_graphics/AT05/refresh/AL0506W5+gif/025435W_sm.gif

Eh I'm not suprised, I mean who was the genius that decided to put a city below sea water!. Let's face it, this is punishment for the people for re-electing the Mayor. The Mayor who put his foot in his mouth more often than Rush or Pat.

Sucks to live in New Orleans. Maybe god really does hate them?

They've had a whole year to build costal defences etc.

And they've done nothing. If this turns into a hurricane and hits them, it's entirely their own fault.

But for the love of baby jesus, we should stop sending these swamptards money everytime the weather gets a little bit rough down there. It only encourages their stupidity.

sucks to be Cuban they seem to be getting hit more by this

sucks to be Cuban they seem to be getting hit more by this

Yea, but I bet ya $5 that the Cubans have prepared more than New Orleans have.

They've had a whole year to build costal defences etc.

This makes me imagine the inhabitants of New Orleans firing some sort of artillery emplacements at the approaching storm.

Yea, but I bet ya $5 that the Cubans have prepared more than New Orleans have.

Why bet, it's essentially a certainty.

This makes me imagine the inhabitants of New Orleans firing some sort of artillery emplacements at the approaching storm.

Nuke the storm :)

This makes me imagine the inhabitants of New Orleans firing some sort of artillery emplacements at the approaching storm.

Actually, that wouldn't surprise me.

You have to wonder about people who build an entire city eighteen feet below sea level, on the coast, where there are hurricanes all the time. Then act surprised when it doesn't work out too good for them.

I say good. Let the hurrican hit them. Then maybe all the Jews, fags and blacks will learn their lessons for being evil sinners:rolleyes:

This makes me imagine the inhabitants of New Orleans firing some sort of artillery emplacements at the approaching storm.

That would be funny to watch, but if one of the rounds hit and blows up an oil rig, then everyone in the USA will burn New Orleans down to the ground and hang the Mayor.

Hmmm

*goes out and buy pitchforks, torches, and rope*

What's more, on the news the other night they had a thing about rebuilding. And those idiots were taking federal relief money and rebuilding exactly the same houses that blew away last year.

WTF?

I mean, because that was it. That storm was a one off and will never happen again. Ever. :rolleyes:

What's more, on the news the other night they had a thing about rebuilding. And those idiots were taking federal relief money and rebuilding exactly the same houses that blew away last year.

WTF?

I mean, because that was it. That storm was a one off and will never happen again. Ever. :rolleyes:

and you know that the residents will just use this storm as an excuse to stay on the dole, even a year after Katrina some of them are still on the dole.

Eh I'm not suprised, I mean who was the genius that decided to put a city below sea water!. Let's face it, this is punishment for the people for re-electing the Mayor. The Mayor who put his foot in his mouth more often than Rush or Pat.

None of the city was below sea level until fairly recently, when Lakeview was built. Even so, it wouldn't matter because the city is surrounded by natural levees and ridges about 15 feet above the rest of the city that protect it, but which were compromised by a number of federal and state canals that need to be filled in.

They've had a whole year to build costal defences etc.

And they've done nothing. If this turns into a hurricane and hits them, it's entirely their own fault.

But for the love of baby jesus, we should stop sending these swamptards money everytime the weather gets a little bit rough down there. It only encourages their stupidity.

Um, we've done as much as could be done with federal, state, and local govt idiocy, incompetency, and foot-dragging. The weather didn't get "a bit rough." 140 mph winds are ... oh, I dunno, a bit more than merely rough. It was the most powerful hurricane to have ever hit the continental US.
Oh, and BTW, we don't live in swamps.

None of the city was below sea level until fairly recently, when Lakeview was built. Even so, it wouldn't matter because the city is surrounded by natural levees and ridges about 15 feet above the rest of the city that protect it, but which were compromised by a number of federal and state canals that need to be filled in.

Well, a year after Katrina, and the levees still sucks. Personally I hope New Orleans either get leveled by the storm, or the people of USA just burn it down to the ground and put salt on the soil.

Nuke the storm :)
Yeah! Radioactive hurricanes are teh bomb!

Nuke the storm :)

No, just seed it with anthrax spores. That should take care of things.

You guys talking smack about New Orleans can go fuck yourselves. New Orleans evacuated 80% of its citizenry before Katrina hit last year, when the best models had them getting 60% out. And compared to the clusterfuck that was the Houston evacuation during Rita last year, New Orleans was an example of brilliant evacuation planning.

As for the levees, you can't blame shit on the locals now. That's the Army Corps of Engineers' baby, and the federal government. If it fails, Nagin and Blanco have shit to do with it.

Yeah! Radioactive hurricanes are teh bomb!

No, just seed it with anthrax spores. That should take care of things.

Why not the best of both worlds, a radioactive hurricane seeded with anthrax spores. New where?

Well, a year after Katrina, and the levees still sucks. Personally I hope New Orleans either get leveled by the storm, or the people of USA just burn it down to the ground and put salt on the soil.

You do realize that you've just said the equivalent of "I hope your momma gets ass cancer and dies" to a major city, right? You've just slipped from "irritant" to "dogshit" on my respect meter.

Well, a year after Katrina, and the levees still sucks. Personally I hope New Orleans either get leveled by the storm, or the people of USA just burn it down to the ground and put salt on the soil.


my aren't we a beacon of reason and compassion and non-dumbfuckery

my aren't we a beacon of reason and compassion and non-dumbfuckery

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm?
I agree though

You do realize that you've just said the equivalent of "I hope your momma gets ass cancer and dies" to a major city, right? You've just slipped from "irritant" to "dogshit" on my respect meter.

more than a major city - a city whose cultural importance is vastly disproportionate to its size, that is famous around the world, etc

more than a major city - a city whose cultural importance is vastly disproportionate to its size, that is famous around the world, etc

It's a city unlike any other in the US culturally. It was the birthplace of the first truly American musical genre--jazz--and has better food than anywhere else in the country. In terms of culture, it's on a par with New York and San Francisco, and that's hard to say of most cities anywhere in the world.

I said that because comon, who's the fucking genius who decided that putting a city on land that was below sea level was a brilliant idea? Jeez whoever thought that up should get shot. Not only that, after Katrina has hit, we had idiots on top of the Saints stadium shooting at the very same people who were trying to rescue them! Also let's not forget the looting and stealing ahh yes, mass chaos. Not only that, the Mayor and Govenror has proved themselves to be incompetent when faced with disaster, and not only that, the Mayor was re-elected even though he said stupid things like he wanted NO to be a Chocolate City, or he slammed New York and the WTC. Yea, great job re-electing this idiot NO. All I can say, is that if this hurricanes hit NO, don't be suprise if you get the same result. At least Mayor Guilliani was able to do the best he can in 9/11 as compared to the Mayor or NO who had an emotional breakdown in a hotel room when Katrina hit. Also, at least with the Rita incident in Texas, they used the bus! So hey, New Orleans get what they deserve this time around. You elected the same idiot, the Levees are still not up to code, and my bet is that we'll see a replay of Katrina.

I said that because comon, who's the fucking genius who decided that putting a city on land that was below sea level was a brilliant idea? Jeez whoever thought that up should get shot.
For starters, not all of New Orleans is below sea level. And you might try reading a little history--New Orleans has been important strategically as a port and as an inlet for natural resources ever since it was built. That's why it is where it is--it's at the mouth of the longest fucking river in the country.

Not only that, after Katrina has hit, we had idiots on top of the Saints stadium shooting at the very same people who were trying to rescue them! Also let's not forget the looting and stealing ahh yes, mass chaos.
Okay, now a year later, it turns out that a lot of those reports of violence were bogus. There were no rapes in the Superdome, or people shooting at rescue helicopters. There was looting, and there were people stealing non-essentials, but that happens in any situation where law enforcement is overwhlemed by situations outside their control.

Not only that, the Mayor and Govenror has proved themselves to be incompetent when faced with disaster, and not only that, the Mayor was re-elected even though he said stupid things like he wanted NO to be a Chocolate City, or he slammed New York and the WTC. Yea, great job re-electing this idiot NO.
The Mayor and Governor might have done better, certainly, but they were overwhelmed and called for the cavalry before the storm hit. It took the feds five fucking days to get there--anyone would have been overwhelmed by that. And Nagin never slammed NYC. He simply said the two weren't comparable, and they weren't.

All I can say, is that if this hurricanes hit NO, don't be suprise if you get the same result. At least Mayor Guilliani was able to do the best he can in 9/11 as compared to the Mayor or NO who had an emotional breakdown in a hotel room when Katrina hit. Also, at least with the Rita incident in Texas, they used the bus! So hey, New Orleans get what they deserve this time around. You elected the same idiot, the Levees are still not up to code, and my bet is that we'll see a replay of Katrina.
The levees are a federal responsibility now, dumbass, and your other comments show you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Houston got lucky that Rita went north of them, because otherwise, you'd have had a storm wiping out people sitting in their cars, out of gas, on the interstate. And in NYC, Giuliani still had electricity, phone, all the rest. Only a small section of NYC was affected. 80% of NO was under water. Hell of a difference.

None of the city was below sea level until fairly recently, when Lakeview was built. Even so, it wouldn't matter because the city is surrounded by natural levees and ridges about 15 feet above the rest of the city that protect it, but which were compromised by a number of federal and state canals that need to be filled in.

That's true. The main reason why New Orleans is so vulnerable isn't the location but rather the man-made canals and development that has compromised the natural drainage systems and weakened the natural levees that protect the city. You can't pave over wetlands and cut canals through the city without exposing it to serious danger; that wouldn't necessarily be a problem if the man-made defenses were up to the task of protecting the city from a Category 4 or 5 hurricane but they arern't.

New Orleans needs to close some of its underutilized canals, reclaim or recouperate some of the lost wetlands, and sink money in to better protection; the value of the Port of New Orleans and its energy infrastructure to our economy is a lot more than the cost of these investments.

I mean who was the genius that decided to put a city below sea water!. that would be the French I believe...

also add to the fact that the city has been slowly sinking for years...

Eh I'm not suprised, I mean who was the genius that decided to put a city below sea water!. Let's face it, this is punishment for the people for re-electing the Mayor. The Mayor who put his foot in his mouth more often than Rush or Pat.

There is a wealthy European country that was made in land below sea level :)

That doesn't matter as long as you make good enough damns!

Besides, the problem is that you need a city like new orleans not only to provide logistical support to the gulf of mexico oil rigs, but mainly to serve as an export harbour for all those cereals n' stuff that are shipped down zee mississipi!

Basically, genius placed the city there because you need a city there. Even if you demolish New Orleans.. i mean, unless you want to lose its important harbour and logistical support for oil.. just keep on building damns :|

Yes! The hurricane is projected to miss us! Go South Florida! Sucks to be in New Orleans!

that would be the French I believe...

also add to the fact that the city has been slowly sinking for years...

That actually would explain alot....

Do any of you guys know anything about hurricanes? Ernesto is right now a tropical storm, as far as I know. It is projected to make landfall in 4-5 days... tropical storms do not morph into cat-5 hurricanes in that short a time. It would probably take several weeks for it to do that... if it weren't so close to land already. Anyway, Ernesto is just beginning to make landfall as a tropical storm now in the Carribean and the coast of Florida- less fuel. Ernesto may be a hurricane but it will only get up to a category one, which is nothing compared to cat-4 Katrina.

And to those of you who were talking smack about New Orleans: That was crappy planning on the part of the government, not necessarily the people.

By the way, if you don't think I don't know crap about hurricanes simply because I am 14 and obviously don't know what I am talking about... I was eleven years old when Isabel hit back in 03. I know about hurricanes. So don't tell me "you don't know what you're talking about kid," because I do know, and you may not. :mad:

Do any of you guys know anything about hurricanes? Ernesto is right now a tropical storm, as far as I know. It is projected to make landfall in 4-5 days... tropical storms do not morph into cat-5 hurricanes in that short a time. It would probably take several weeks for it to do that... if it weren't so close to land already.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Hurricane_Katrina

There is a wealthy European country that was made in land below sea level :)

That doesn't matter as long as you make good enough damns!

Besides, the problem is that you need a city like new orleans not only to provide logistical support to the gulf of mexico oil rigs, but mainly to serve as an export harbour for all those cereals n' stuff that are shipped down zee mississipi!

Basically, genius placed the city there because you need a city there. Even if you demolish New Orleans.. i mean, unless you want to lose its important harbour and logistical support for oil.. just keep on building damns :|

Why not just turn New Orleans into a business/miltatry area and move the residence to above sea level?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Hurricane_Katrina


It's still not going to get that strong. Katrina was a special case- not all storms do that. It isn't 2005 anymore, either, so Ernesto still will not be as strong. At this same point Katrina was stronger than Ernesto. There's really no telling what a hurricane is going to do- when ISabel was still a cat 5 they thought it would hit Florida first, instead it hit NC as a cat 2. NEw Orleans will not be leveled by this.

It's still not going to get that strong. Katrina was a special case- not all storms do that. It isn't 2005 anymore, either, so Ernesto still will not be as strong. At this same point Katrina was stronger than Ernesto. There's really no telling what a hurricane is going to do- when ISabel was still a cat 5 they thought it would hit Florida first, instead it hit NC as a cat 2. NEw Orleans will not be leveled by this.
When it comes to predicting where hurricanes will go and how strong they will be, using past storms is a really dumb way to do it. Here's what the experts at Weather Underground (http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/show.html) have to say about Ernesto:
Ernesto is holding his own again the shear, and is much stronger today than these models were predicting in their runs yesterday. The NHC official forecast of a continued slow intensification into a Category 1 hurricane by Monday seems like a reasonable one. After that, an explosive deepening phase into a major Category 3 or 4 hurricane is certainly plausible, given the very warm waters and low wind shear forecast to develop.
Nothing personal, but you don't know what the hell you're talking about. I'm over two and a half times your age and have lived in hurricane alley for most of my life. The folks at the NHC know their stuff--you don't.

Edit: So far, no one has said that Ernesto will be another Katrina, either.

It's still not going to get that strong. Katrina was a special case- not all storms do that.
With water temperatures as high as they were then, we'll be seeing this a lot more often, especially as the temperature rises. Guess how the temperature in 2006 compares to the temperature in 2005.

that would be the French I believe...

also add to the fact that the city has been slowly sinking for years...
From what I have heard, the French Quarter is actually built on a hill, which would be the reason why it didn't flood.

However, then came American ownership and all the attendant belief in economic growth and urban expansion. When really the city limits should have been fixed. Building permit - deniiied. But no.

Obviously if the storm hits New Orleans than it is proof that God disapproves of the place, right? ;)

Obviously if the storm hits New Orleans than it is proof that God disapproves of the place, right? ;)

Either that or proves that it's a really stupid place to build a city.

Either that or proves that it's a really stupid place to build a city.

Given where we have chosen to build in California I think it is obvious that we are quite stupid where we build. Luckily no big earthquakes but after a few mudslides you'd think people would know better than to build where they occur but... no.

Given where we have chosen to build in California I think it is obvious that we are quite stupid where we build. Luckily no big earthquakes but after a few mudslides you'd think people would know better than to build where they occur but... no.

On one side, I admire people strong headness and determination, but on the other side, I just have to slap myself on the head and wonder how stupid they really are. :headbang:

Given where we have chosen to build in California I think it is obvious that we are quite stupid where we build. Luckily no big earthquakes but after a few mudslides you'd think people would know better than to build where they occur but... no.... or on the side of an active Volcano...

... or on the side of an active Volcano...

Or anywhere on Earth, really.

I'm suprised at the majority of people moved back to New Orleans. If I had been there during Katrina I think I'd back my stuff up and move.
I think that after every Hurricane season, New Orleans will get less populace.

On one side, I admire people strong headness and determination, but on the other side, I just have to slap myself on the head and wonder how stupid they really are. :headbang:

People admire the location, the view, whatever and ignore the serious risk of their home being destroyed at any point. Then the disaster occurs and they are like "Oh, I never saw this coming!" Yeah, perhaps you just weren't being very bright.

People admire the location, the view, whatever and ignore the serious risk of their home being destroyed at any point. Then the disaster occurs and they are like "Oh, I never saw this coming!" Yeah, perhaps you just weren't being very bright.

Yeah, that's some dumb f**king s**t right there. Especially when the volcano blows, or the house slides into the ocean, or the water comes over the levees.

People admire the location, the view, whatever and ignore the serious risk of their home being destroyed at any point. Then the disaster occurs and they are like "Oh, I never saw this coming!" Yeah, perhaps you just weren't being very bright.
Because it's stuff that happens once every 100 years. So, your odds are pretty good anyway. Of course, it sucks to be there the one year of the century when shit happens.

People admire the location, the view, whatever and ignore the serious risk of their home being destroyed at any point. Then the disaster occurs and they are like "Oh, I never saw this coming!" Yeah, perhaps you just weren't being very bright.

well, they could go face down the earthquakes, mudslides, wildfires, tsunamis, tornados, blizzards, floods, rock falls, devastating droughts, volcanic eruptions, etc of everywhere else, i guess.

it's funny, i don't recall demands that all the towns along the mississippi and associated rivers be dismantled when they all got flooded at the same time a few years back...
http://www.nwrfc.noaa.gov/floods/papers/oh_2/great.htm

is anyone demanding that the population of the entire eastern seaboard get relocated cause the mega-tsunami is coming?

Malece;11600834']I'm suprised at the majority of people moved back to New Orleans. If I had been there during Katrina I think I'd back my stuff up and move.
I think that after every Hurricane season, New Orleans will get less populace.

Well, for starters, the majority of the populace hasn't come back yet. New Orleans was a city of about 500K people, and it's about 300K at most now. I seriously doubt it'll get that big again in the near future, for precisely the reason you mentioned. However, that was the first major hurricane to get that close to New Orleans in over thirty years as well--Camille was the last one--so it's not like New Orleans gets pounded all the time. Biloxi, Mississippi now, that's a place where I wonder why anyone lives there at all, and I grew up not far from there.

well, they could go face down the earthquakes, mudslides, wildfires, tsunamis, tornados, blizzards, floods, rock falls, devastating droughts, volcanic eruptions, etc of everywhere else, i guess.

it's funny, i don't recall demands that all the towns along the mississippi and associated rivers be dismantled when they all got flooded at the same time a few years back...
http://www.nwrfc.noaa.gov/floods/papers/oh_2/great.htm

is anyone demanding that the population of the entire eastern seaboard get relocated cause the mega-tsunami is coming?

I wasn't thinking about Katrina disasters or even when the Mississippi flooded. But when you build a home on a certain hillside in southern California that you should know could be a site for a mudslide at any point... well you really should have known yet moved there anyway. That is a risk that you could easily avoid yet people ignore it anyway.

I wasn't thinking about Katrina disasters or even when the Mississippi flooded. But when you build a home on a certain hillside in southern California that you should know could be a site for a mudslide at any point... well you really should have known yet moved there anyway. That is a risk that you could easily avoid yet people ignore it anyway.


there are risks to living essentially everywhere. we just sort of have to deal with them.

there are risks to living essentially everywhere. we just sort of have to deal with them.

I don't know, living in the Piedmont of North Carolina seems pretty safe to me.

I say good. Let the hurrican hit them. Then maybe all the Jews, fags and blacks will learn their lessons for being evil sinners:rolleyes:

Exactly my thought!

there are risks to living essentially everywhere. we just sort of have to deal with them.

Living in Florida you have to deal with hurricanes, floods etc. Living on a dangerous hillside that could result in a mudslide at any moment is something different. The former is chance, the latter is stupidity.

Well, for starters, the majority of the populace hasn't come back yet. New Orleans was a city of about 500K people, and it's about 300K at most now. I seriously doubt it'll get that big again in the near future, for precisely the reason you mentioned. However, that was the first major hurricane to get that close to New Orleans in over thirty years as well--Camille was the last one--so it's not like New Orleans gets pounded all the time. Biloxi, Mississippi now, that's a place where I wonder why anyone lives there at all, and I grew up not far from there.

Since a lot of the housing for the poor was effectively destroyed, no it won't get too big in the near future. Anything that is rated as above potential flood level in New Orleans is worth more money than before, and the rest is worthless and probably will never be rebuilt.

Sorry, this is kinda long, and kinda serious for this forum, but it's been a long year, and the wounds are still fresh. I'm a typical Louisiana citizen: I've got family that has lived in New Orleans for generations now displaced all over Louisiana and the rest of the country. We lost 5 family homes, 2 family businesses, but no family lives were lost.

New Orleans is the funkiest, friendliest, most unique city in the country. It's more than Bourbon street: it's food, family, music. Despite it's image, it's a deeply religious city (2nd highest church attendance among US cities, behind Salt Lake City).

For those who think that New Orleans should never have been where it is, it has to be. The port is vital to the nation for energy and as a major export area for midwest crops. The city wasn't always as far below sea level as it is today: it has subsided over time.

Yes, Mayor Nagin is a major ass-clown, BUT... the general idea of his New York comments are valid. To be comparable to the hurricane damage to New Orleans, the entire island of Manhattan would have to have been destroyed by 9/11 and uninhabitable.

Although it's not politically correct to say so, the evacuation of New Orleans was fairly good. Compare it to the the evacuation of Houston for Rita (which happened after Katrina). If Rita had stayed it's course and hit Galveston/Houston, the number of people drowned in their cars stuck on the interstate would have greatly exceeded New Orleans deathtoll, and rivaled that of 9/11. That doesn't make the New Orleans evacuation good enough... one life lost is too many. An interesting statistic is about who lost their lives, not by race, not by income, but by lifestyle. Urban planners have stressed the value of mass transit in large cities, eliminating the need for automobiles. Those are the people who died there. The people who had to depend on mass transit. Yes, the busses should have run, but self reliance always trumps best intentions.

That's enough
Sorry for the length.

I give up: is it sinking again?

I give up: is it sinking again?

Not really "sinking", but it could flood like Bangledash during the wet season.

All it needs is a few surges of storm and...New Orleans is out for the count, nigga.

Not really "sinking", but it could flood like Bangledash during the wet season.

All it needs is a few surges of storm and...New Orleans is out for the count, nigga.

Well, lets hope that doesn't happen. One little tropical storm far from the Gulf and people panic thinking its going to hit New Orleans again. Lets just think rationally and realize the chances of it hitting directly again is slim.

Well, lets hope that doesn't happen. One little tropical storm far from the Gulf and people panic thinking its going to hit New Orleans again. Lets just think rationally and realize the chances of it hitting directly again is slim.

But thats the problem, it doesnt need to be a direct hit. Just needs to stir up some waves and storm surge in the gulf...which can then crash into New Orleans without the storm actually hitting the city full on.


Anyway, better New Orleans than us here in So-Fla (South Florida). We had enough hurricane last season to last us FOREVER! (Ya hear that God/science/global warming!!!!)

I give up: is it sinking again?

All of south Louisiana is sinking, because it's built on silt and clay as opposed to bedrock or coral. Everything southeast of Baton Rouge is there because the Mississippi River has been dumping silt from the middle of the continent into the mouth of the river from time immemorial. That's just the geography of the area.

And Earlland, much love. I said much the same thing on page two, albeit in saltier language.

I suggest building a Futurist city further inland from New Orleans and calling it Neo Orleans.

Sorry, this is kinda long, and kinda serious for this forum, but it's been a long year, and the wounds are still fresh. I'm a typical Louisiana citizen: I've got family that has lived in New Orleans for generations now displaced all over Louisiana and the rest of the country. We lost 5 family homes, 2 family businesses, but no family lives were lost.

New Orleans is the funkiest, friendliest, most unique city in the country. It's more than Bourbon street: it's food, family, music. Despite it's image, it's a deeply religious city (2nd highest church attendance among US cities, behind Salt Lake City).

For those who think that New Orleans should never have been where it is, it has to be. The port is vital to the nation for energy and as a major export area for midwest crops. The city wasn't always as far below sea level as it is today: it has subsided over time.

Yes, Mayor Nagin is a major ass-clown, BUT... the general idea of his New York comments are valid. To be comparable to the hurricane damage to New Orleans, the entire island of Manhattan would have to have been destroyed by 9/11 and uninhabitable.

Although it's not politically correct to say so, the evacuation of New Orleans was fairly good. Compare it to the the evacuation of Houston for Rita (which happened after Katrina). If Rita had stayed it's course and hit Galveston/Houston, the number of people drowned in their cars stuck on the interstate would have greatly exceeded New Orleans deathtoll, and rivaled that of 9/11. That doesn't make the New Orleans evacuation good enough... one life lost is too many. An interesting statistic is about who lost their lives, not by race, not by income, but by lifestyle. Urban planners have stressed the value of mass transit in large cities, eliminating the need for automobiles. Those are the people who died there. The people who had to depend on mass transit. Yes, the busses should have run, but self reliance always trumps best intentions.

That's enough
Sorry for the length.



O.K. Look I have lived on the Gulf Coast all my life. I deal with hurricanes. I feel bad for New Orleans and wouldn't bash them about anything, maybe their politicians, but not the people. Look New Orleans did not plan its evacuation well. I saw the evacuation handbook for the State of Texas and the State of Louisiana. Texas was about the size of a house wall and Louisiana's was about the size of a piece of paper. Now, stop saying that Houston was not evacuated well. By the time Rita hit Beaumont(where I'm from), the PARTS of Houston that were under a mandatory evacuation were evacuated. Yes there was traffic, but we were all out by the time the Hurrican hit. We had NO loss of life. Now, I don't think and certainitly don't hope that New Orleans gets hit by another hurricane. I don't think it should be burnt down. I liked visiting there(sadly haven't been back since Katrina).

Sorry but this whole thing got me going!

O.K. Look I have lived on the Gulf Coast all my life. I deal with hurricanes. I feel bad for New Orleans and wouldn't bash them about anything, maybe their politicians, but not the people. Look New Orleans did not plan its evacuation well. I saw the evacuation handbook for the State of Texas and the State of Louisiana. Texas was about the size of a house wall and Louisiana's was about the size of a piece of paper. Now, stop saying that Houston was not evacuated well. By the time Rita hit Beaumont(where I'm from), the PARTS of Houston that were under a mandatory evacuation were evacuated. Yes there was traffic, but we were all out by the time the Hurrican hit. We had NO loss of life. Now, I don't think and certainitly don't hope that New Orleans gets hit by another hurricane. I don't think it should be burnt down. I liked visiting there(sadly haven't been back since Katrina).

Sorry but this whole thing got me going!I'll say it again--New Orleans got 80% of its residents out. Eighty freaking percent. That percentage is unbelievable, and yet New Orleans gets no credit for having done it. There were no people sitting stuck in traffic getting out of New Orleans and running out of gas on the highways or bridges. The contraflow system worked like a dream, better than hoped for.

Now I'm going to backtrack on something I wrote earlier when I compared the two cities, but only slightly. The two situations aren't the same. Houston is far larger and has fewer major egresses for evacuation, so the system is different, but that doesn't change the fact that the evacuation of New Orleans was far smoother than the one for Houston.

Nuke the storm :)

That would be like shooting a BB-gun at a freight train. And the fallout will do more harm than good.

That would be like shooting a BB-gun at a freight train. And the fallout will do more harm than good.

I think he was just joking.

Do any of you guys know anything about hurricanes? Ernesto is right now a tropical storm, as far as I know. It is projected to make landfall in 4-5 days... tropical storms do not morph into cat-5 hurricanes in that short a time. It would probably take several weeks for it to do that... if it weren't so close to land already. Anyway, Ernesto is just beginning to make landfall as a tropical storm now in the Carribean and the coast of Florida- less fuel. Ernesto may be a hurricane but it will only get up to a category one, which is nothing compared to cat-4 Katrina.

And to those of you who were talking smack about New Orleans: That was crappy planning on the part of the government, not necessarily the people.

By the way, if you don't think I don't know crap about hurricanes simply because I am 14 and obviously don't know what I am talking about... I was eleven years old when Isabel hit back in 03. I know about hurricanes. So don't tell me "you don't know what you're talking about kid," because I do know, and you may not. :mad:

You might want to wach the WC. Most likely a Cat 3 with a good chance of Cat 4.

All of south Louisiana is sinking, because it's built on silt and clay as opposed to bedrock or coral. Everything southeast of Baton Rouge is there because the Mississippi River has been dumping silt from the middle of the continent into the mouth of the river from time immemorial. That's just the geography of the area.

And Earlland, much love. I said much the same thing on page two, albeit in saltier language.


You act as if that is an inevitability. Some of the worlds tallest buildings are built on clay or silt. The sinking could have been minimized, with different building codes and more thought about where construction should take place.

New Orleans, and the whole gulf coast in general, has been on notice about this for forty years. Yet they keep doing the same thing: cheap frame houses and inadequate costal defence systems. Why? Because all over the gulf coast the federal government pays people to keep rebuilding the same crap.

In fact, with the increase in population of costal zones in the SE, the situation is worse than ever. Yet local government has fostered this with substandard building codes and improper site improvement. It's going to happen again, and again, and again, unless someone addresses the underlying problems.

When holland's sea defences failed in 1953, they changed them. Substantially. California has modified its building codes from the lessons learned from various earthquakes. What makes the gulf coast different? It's entirely possible to build hurricane proofed houses. There's one on the Keys in florida. They're expensive, but that's just a premium that has to paid if you intend to live in a hurricane zone. After all, people in the upper pennisula of michigan pay a premium to deal with their local weather too.

And maybe NO is a great cultural center. But that shouldn't exempt it from having to deal with the reality of its geography. If it is that important then maybe its not enough to just shrug and say its always going to sink and all it needs is concrete levies strong enough to deal with 90% of storms. I grant you that means an increase in local tax burdens to pay for these improvements, and more money has to be spent on construction and such, but then if people aren't willing to pay that, maybe its not so important after all.

All of the SE USA is a bad place to live. LA is sinking. FL is doomed to destruction by a Tunami that can hit within 5 houers of this post with a single eruption in the Canary Islands. Why do we even live here?

I'm just browsing this and the numerous complaints about how the city is "below sea level" [a problem which, somehow, is also attributed to the Feds] is enough to make me want to stitch some mouths shut.

New Orleans was founded by the French in 1718, not Nagin in 2005. The people who complain that "whoever decided to build the city there should be shot" would do well to understand that everyone responsible has been dead for some time. Nevertheless, European settlers at that time had no long-term experience with how often massive tropical cyclones came ashore in that area, and as a matter of fact our perception of these weather trends is still ongoing. By the time it became well known that New Orleans was unusually prone to hurricanes both because of its size and location and Hurricanes came ashore often enough to pose something of an ongoing problem in this area, too many people inhabited the city to do anything about it overnight.

If you still want to claim that it shouldn't exist, that's fine; but blame the French--don't blame us.

well, they could go face down the earthquakes, mudslides, wildfires, tsunamis, tornados, blizzards, floods, rock falls, devastating droughts, volcanic eruptions, etc of everywhere else, i guess.

it's funny, i don't recall demands that all the towns along the mississippi and associated rivers be dismantled when they all got flooded at the same time a few years back...
http://www.nwrfc.noaa.gov/floods/papers/oh_2/great.htm

is anyone demanding that the population of the entire eastern seaboard get relocated cause the mega-tsunami is coming?

No, but there were iniatives like the missouri buy-out program to mitigate future damage. http://www.floods.org/Publications/mit%20succ%20stories/mssiiimo.htm

I'm just browsing this and the numerous complaints about how the city is "below sea level" [a problem which, somehow, is also attributed to the Feds] is enough to make me want to stitch some mouths shut.

New Orleans was founded by the French in 1718, not Nagin in 2005. The people who complain that "whoever decided to build the city there should be shot" would do well to understand that everyone responsible has been dead for some time. Nevertheless, European settlers at that time had no long-term experience with how often massive tropical cyclones came ashore in that area, and as a matter of fact our perception of these weather trends is still ongoing. By the time it became well known that New Orleans was unusually prone to hurricanes both because of its size and location and Hurricanes came ashore often enough to pose something of an ongoing problem in this area, too many people inhabited the city to do anything about it overnight.

If you still want to claim that it shouldn't exist, that's fine; but blame the French--don't blame us.awwww Melkor... I wanted to see them raid all those cemetaries to shoot all those dead people! :p

Actually, that wouldn't surprise me.

You have to wonder about people who build an entire city eighteen feet below sea level, on the coast, where there are hurricanes all the time. Then act surprised when it doesn't work out too good for them.

Uh, none of New Orleans is more than about 7 feet below sea level, and almost all of the original city was built at about 6 or 7 feet above sea level.

and you know that the residents will just use this storm as an excuse to stay on the dole, even a year after Katrina some of them are still on the dole.

That hasn't happened. The ones who don't wanna work haven't returned, and it's really remarkable how many locals have taken advantage of the storm to set up contracting and construction businesses.

Well, a year after Katrina, and the levees still sucks. Personally I hope New Orleans either get leveled by the storm, or the people of USA just burn it down to the ground and put salt on the soil.

Then you're an asshole unless you're kidding, but the city of New Orleans is viable in the long run if something is done about those canals that compromise our natural flood protection.

You guys talking smack about New Orleans can go fuck yourselves. New Orleans evacuated 80% of its citizenry before Katrina hit last year, when the best models had them getting 60% out. And compared to the clusterfuck that was the Houston evacuation during Rita last year, New Orleans was an example of brilliant evacuation planning.

As for the levees, you can't blame shit on the locals now. That's the Army Corps of Engineers' baby, and the federal government. If it fails, Nagin and Blanco have shit to do with it.

Right on! Esp about Houston - they talk shit about us, but then when a hurricane comes, people spend 12 hours trying to escape from suburban hell, er, evacuate, and then just go home. Not to mention that it floods at every drizzle.

more than a major city - a city whose cultural importance is vastly disproportionate to its size, that is famous around the world, etc

New Orleans is like the Mississippi Delta; culturally, we punch WAY above our weight.

Okay, now a year later, it turns out that a lot of those reports of violence were bogus. There were no rapes in the Superdome, or people shooting at rescue helicopters. There was looting, and there were people stealing non-essentials, but that happens in any situation where law enforcement is overwhlemed by situations outside their control.

That's .... not quite true. But the fact that there was a lot of violence directed against law enforcement is understandable, given the history of the NOPD et al.
But yes, a lot of things happened that are being carefully covered up. Ask around.

Yes! The hurricane is projected to miss us! Go South Florida! Sucks to be in New Orleans!

Check the new NOAA track, sucker!

Why not just turn New Orleans into a business/miltatry area and move the residence to above sea level?

Because that would cost tens of billions, is fucking wasteful, would destroy vast historical areas, is just generally utterly retarded, and costs far far far more than building a good flood-control system.

Wetlands advocates have been talking for years about the need to fix that particular area. Recent years have seen the wetlands of the bay area severely depleted.

If you're going to blame anyone... blame the Army corps of engineers for their projects for making the flooding worse, and blame the feds for not getting their tails in gear. They dropped the ball, they know it, hopefully they'll do better next time.

Malece;11600834']I'm suprised at the majority of people moved back to New Orleans. If I had been there during Katrina I think I'd back my stuff up and move.
I think that after every Hurricane season, New Orleans will get less populace.

People who live in New Orleans are fanatical about it. That's because it's the only normal city in the country, the only one with character where there's stuff other than strip-mall hell.

well, they could go face down the earthquakes, mudslides, wildfires, tsunamis, tornados, blizzards, floods, rock falls, devastating droughts, volcanic eruptions, etc of everywhere else, i guess.

it's funny, i don't recall demands that all the towns along the mississippi and associated rivers be dismantled when they all got flooded at the same time a few years back...
http://www.nwrfc.noaa.gov/floods/papers/oh_2/great.htm

is anyone demanding that the population of the entire eastern seaboard get relocated cause the mega-tsunami is coming?

I honestly think it could be because people resent New Orleans, or fear it, or think we're a bunch of slackers.

Wetlands advocates have been talking for years about the need to fix that particular area. Recent years have seen the wetlands of the bay area severely depleted.

If you're going to blame anyone... blame the Army corps of engineers for their projects for making the flooding worse, and blame the feds for not getting their tails in gear. They dropped the ball, they know it, hopefully they'll do better next time.

Yea, fix the wetlands, fix the floodwalls, do something about the canals, and restore the silt flow, and the city is viable in the long term.

It was predicted ten years ago, that in ten years... (making it right. now.) New Orleans would be under water. And guess what. There's still people living there.

I understand the tsunami reconstruction, because, that is not a usual reoccurance... whereas for hurricanes... we have a freaking hurricane season, of course there's going to be another one, and a another one.

I say those people just need to give up there childhood homes, if it meant that they would live happily again, just move north a bit. Stop the recontruction in the town, start rebuilding their homes somewhere else.

If you still want to claim that it shouldn't exist, that's fine; but blame the French--don't blame us.
The city the French founded was above water, in an island in the middle of the swamp. And that part made it through ok. It was urban sprawl, dessecation of the swamp and altering the natural barriers that caused trouble for the city.

Still, I wouldn't blame New Orleaners for that, since it's a rule in every city in the US: extend as far as possilble and damn the geography. And you don't see any other city doing something about their vulnerability to natural disasters, except maybe SF or L.A.

People are like that everywhere, though, they see no reason to prepare for a disaster that only comes once in a couple of generations.

Look like the storm isn't going to hit New Orleans after all, which means the Mayor and Governor gets to keep their job. Now what am I going to do with my mob gear?

Well if you build a city in a area prone to hurricane/tropical storms then you gotta endure them. Not much you can do bout that.

sucks to be Cuban they seem to be getting hit more by this

Won't anyone think of the Jamaicans? (http://khaoulita.afrikblog.com/images/dennis_morris_bob_marley_spliff.jpg)

Won't anyone think of the Jamaicans? (http://khaoulita.afrikblog.com/images/dennis_morris_bob_marley_spliff.jpg)

exactly! I mean, I need my red stripe to survive.

Look like the storm isn't going to hit New Orleans after all, which means the Mayor and Governor gets to keep their job. Now what am I going to do with my mob gear?
Maybe you can find some minorities to oppress?

Yea, but I bet ya $5 that the Cubans have prepared more than New Orleans have.

No the Cuban Goverment forces them out..Unlike the U.S goverment.Americans stay where they are to protect something stupid or think its not going to be that bad!

Right on! Esp about Houston - they talk shit about us, but then when a hurricane comes, people spend 12 hours trying to escape from suburban hell, er, evacuate, and then just go home. Not to mention that it floods at every drizzle.

Look we didn't spend 12 hours on the road AND several thousand Katrina evacuees came to Beaumont, and they said they spent at least 10 hours. No we didn't go back home, there was no electricity in Houston for about 6 days. As for Beaumont(which is about an hour and a half north east of Houston) our city was closed for 3 weeks. I lived in New Orleans for a few years. It does not rain near as bad there as it does in Southeast Texas. No we don't talk shit about ya'll until you talk shit about us. Ya'll started the shit talk. We opened shelters, cooked food, gave furniture, etc. when you evacuated from Katrina and now all you can do is talk shit about us.

Maybe you can find some minorities to oppress?

:rolleyes:, You know, out of sick morbid curosity, I would love to hear where you and other people who come up with "whitty" (and I use that term very very loosely) comments like these. There's a book isn't there?

:rolleyes:, You know, out of sick morbid curosity, I would love to hear where you and other people who come up with "whitty" (and I use that term very very loosely) comments like these. There's a book isn't there?
Don't need one. Liberals don't rely on their overlords for talking points. We're smart enough to come up with insults on our own.

Don't need one. Liberals don't rely on their overlords for talking points. We're smart enough to come up with insults on our own.

*snickers* yea, ok, whatever you say.

*walks away laughing*

*snickers* yea, ok, whatever you say.

*walks away laughing*All I can say is, don't start shit if you ain't ready to throw. You've already had your ass handed to you multiple times in this thread, so I can see why you want to walk away. Ain't no shame in taking a whipping.

All I can say is, don't start shit if you ain't ready to throw. You've already had your ass handed to you multiple times in this thread, so I can see why you want to walk away. Ain't no shame in taking a whipping.

Hey, if the people of New Orleans want an incompentent morons for Mayor and Govenor, then that's their business, but justs don't expect me to give any sympthy if their town get owned by a Hurricane again.

and as for not repeating talking point. Give me a break, "Conservative are evil" "Bush is Hitler" "Bush is a war mongering cowboy." Comon Nazz, even you must realize that both sides have idiots who does nothing than repeat talking points from the respective leader from their side.

Won't anyone think of the Jamaicans? (http://khaoulita.afrikblog.com/images/dennis_morris_bob_marley_spliff.jpg)

Are there Jamaicans in New Orleans?

Are there Jamaicans in New Orleans?

Dude, there are Jamaicans everywhere. ;)

No the Cuban Goverment forces them out..Unlike the U.S goverment.Americans stay where they are to protect something stupid or think its not going to be that bad!

Yeah the only problem is that they force them to come here. :headbang: