NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, we all know Russia has a very low birthrate. Good, pure ethnic Russians are being replaced by Chechen t'rrists.

And with that sort of mindset being so popular in Russia (and on the rise in the rest of Europe), it shouldn't surprise that a few guys would decide to take action.

http://www.interfax.com/3/186195/news.aspx
Kostyryov and Tikhomirov decided to commit the crime because they believe that "there are too many Asians" at the Cherkizovsky market.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2006/08/23/003.html
None of the suspects belonged to ultranationalist groups, but they had been in contact with like-minded people on the Internet, Syomin said.

Independent xenophobia experts said ultranationalists and skinheads operating alone are a growing danger. "We see the emergence of so-called net-surfing nationalists who do not join any groups but get pumped up on the Internet and then strike out in the real world," said Semyon Charny of the Moscow Bureau for Human Rights.

I think it's quite interesting that this is so exactly like what they say about the new generation of Islamist terrorists in the West: No connection with any sort of group, just frequenting the wrong sort of websites, finally downloading plans to make a bomb and going out there to vent their anger.

What do you think motivated these guys? How is it different from whatever motivated the guys in Britain? Can we keep going on calling religion the reason, rather than the excuse?

It is different. Religion is a valid excuse. This is inexcusible and not condoned by God or man.

"...too many Asians..."

*looks at map of Russia*

Those boys really need to remind themselves of how big Russia actually is.

"...too many Asians..."

*looks at map of Russia*

Those boys really need to remind themselves of how big Russia actually is.
And how good looking Asians can be. ;)

What do you think motivated these guys? How is it different from whatever motivated the guys in Britain? Can we keep going on calling religion the reason, rather than the excuse?

wait a second, these guys weren't islamists it was just plain old racist terror.

Wasn't it? (i have the reading comprehension of a chimpanzee with a concussion)

wait a second, these guys weren't islamists it was just plain old racist terror.
And then look a bit closer:

One wants a pure Russian empire of right-thinking Russians representing the greatness of their culture.
The other wants a great Ummah full of pious Muslims representing the greatness of their culture.

Both are willing to kill innocent people for it, remove the elements that stand in the way. Both will rationalise whatever means they have available: one being population genetics, history or whatever, the other using religion and history.

What is the difference, really?

And then look a bit closer:

One wants a pure Russian empire of right-thinking Russians representing the greatness of their culture.
The other wants a great Ummah full of pious Muslims representing the greatness of their culture.

Both are willing to kill innocent people for it, remove the elements that stand in the way. Both will rationalise whatever means they have available: one being population genetics, history or whatever, the other using religion and history.

What is the difference, really?

yeah, your right, i thought you were saying that they were islamists...slightly confused....

"...too many Asians..."

*looks at map of Russia*

Those boys really need to remind themselves of how big Russia actually is.

ROFL. They also need to remind themselves WHERE Russia is.

What's more interesting right now is that Germany has had a very close call on commuters' trains - and the bombs simply didn't explode because of bad workmanship.
Police already arrested one suspect, but the other one left the country and got away.
And now there's all kinds of blind activism and calling for more surveillance and crazy laws and such.

What's more interesting right now is that Germany has had a very close call on commuters' trains - and the bombs simply didn't explode because of bad workmanship.
Police already arrested one suspect, but the other one left the country and got away.
And now there's all kinds of blind activism and calling for more surveillance and crazy laws and such.

I didn't hear about that, was it Islamists or like this one, skinheads?

Islamists from the Lebanon.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,432321,00.html

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,432746,00.html

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,432829,00.html

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,432877,00.html

Islamists from the Lebanon.

oh, I heard about that ethiopean getting beaten into a coma by neo-nazis and, meh

I didn't hear about that, was it Islamists or like this one, skinheads?
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/ - lots of stories there

It was a proper Islamist plot (although it wasn't AQ, more Israel-related, they're thinking Hizb ut-Tahrir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hizb_ut-Tahrir) might be distantly involved), done much like these Russian ones by people who don't formally belong to any organisations. Bombs on train, they just didn't go off.

It was a proper Islamist plot (although it wasn't AQ, more Israel-related, they're thinking Hizb ut-Tahrir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hizb_ut-Tahrir) might be distantly involved), done much like these Russian ones by people who don't formally belong to any organisations. Bombs on train, they just didn't go off.

Hizb ut-Tahrir usually doesn't go for such violent displays.

Hizb ut-Tahrir usually doesn't go for such violent displays.
Told you that, didn't they? :rolleyes:

Hizb ut-Tahrir usually doesn't go for such violent displays.
Perhaps not directly, but they certainly provide ideological support.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,432877,00.html
Youssef Mohamad E., who has been an engineering student in the northern city of Kiel where he was arrested, had links with Hizb ut-Tahir (Party of Liberation), an Islamic and anti-Israeli party, the Berlin newspaper Der Tagesspiegel reported, citing unnamed German security sources. The party was banned in Germany in 2003 because it was deemed anti-Semitic.

Security sources said several members of the arrested man's family were "problematic." They said it was feasible that Hizb ut-Tahrir or party supporters among his family instilled radical views in him.

oh, I heard about that ethiopean getting beaten into a coma by neo-nazis and, meh
Mmh, no - that's a different story and they finally charged those two assheads with assault and failure to render assistance.

Told you that, didn't they? :rolleyes:

Radical Islamic fundamentalist groups that actually advocate violence tend to, you know, advocate violence. Like, say, al-Qaeda and Hamas. They make no secret of their means.

Perhaps not directly, but they certainly provide ideological support.

I'll give you that one.

Radical Islamic fundamentalist groups that actually advocate violence tend to, you know, advocate violence. Like, say, al-Qaeda and Hamas. They make no secret of their means.
Could be that seperate underground/side society thing and the language barrier, don't you think?

Who knows what they talk about when in private? They don't really need to do that open in public. Less drawing attention, more of a surprise... :(

And then look a bit closer:

One wants a pure Russian empire of right-thinking Russians representing the greatness of their culture.
The other wants a great Ummah full of pious Muslims representing the greatness of their culture.

Both are willing to kill innocent people for it, remove the elements that stand in the way. Both will rationalise whatever means they have available: one being population genetics, history or whatever, the other using religion and history.

What is the difference, really?

not one bit of a difference...insanity and hate are equal oppurtunity employers.
toss in some insecurity..voila...

And then look a bit closer:

One wants a pure Russian empire of right-thinking Russians representing the greatness of their culture.
The other wants a great Ummah full of pious Muslims representing the greatness of their culture.

Both are willing to kill innocent people for it, remove the elements that stand in the way. Both will rationalise whatever means they have available: one being population genetics, history or whatever, the other using religion and history.

What is the difference, really?

I'd much rather have neither, since the empire would be a threat to stability and the islamic gov't would be a threat to America.

not one bit of a difference...insanity and hate are equal oppurtunity employers.
toss in some insecurity..voila...

Not voilia, Vodka. It's russia man, Vodka is like water up there, it melts off the snow.

I'd much rather have neither, since the empire would be a threat to stability and the islamic gov't would be a threat to America.
You know you can build the same sentence with pretty much any other irrational movement on the planet, right? Including Neoconservatism?

What's more interesting right now is that Germany has had a very close call on commuters' trains - and the bombs simply didn't explode because of bad workmanship.
Police already arrested one suspect, but the other one left the country and got away.
And now there's all kinds of blind activism and calling for more surveillance and crazy laws and such.


Thats actually really scary because in German we were talkign aobut trains and transportations and stuff and I commented on the maps that they gave out.

"Wow that makes it so much eaiser for a terrorist to attack where he wants/needs to"

Scary, :eek:

SNIP


What do you think motivated these guys? How is it different from whatever motivated the guys in Britain? Can we keep going on calling religion the reason, rather than the excuse?

Oh gosh, I've been calling religion the excuse ( and not the reason ) ab ovo.
Does that make me avant-garde?

Thats actually really scary because in German we were talkign aobut trains and transportations and stuff and I commented on the maps that they gave out.

"Wow that makes it so much eaiser for a terrorist to attack where he wants/needs to"

Scary, :eek:
While that whole thing indeed is scary - I grew really fond of the German train maps and the timetables they hand out. After all, I'd be kinda stupid to get rid of that convenience simply because some assholes might use it for their evil scheming. You wouldn't get rid of streetmaps either, only because bankrobbers use the same streets.

If it's really about the "where to strike", they might easily target the rails, not the trains.

isn't about 75% of Russia actually in Asia??? those crazy rusky's.

It is different. Religion is a valid excuse. This is inexcusible and not condoned by God or man.
...

...

WTF?

It is different. Religion is a valid excuse. This is inexcusible and not condoned by God or man.

Now that's the most inane thing I've ever read.

[QUOTE
What do you think motivated these guys? How is it different from whatever motivated the guys in Britain? Can we keep going on calling religion the reason, rather than the excuse?[/QUOTE]

Greetings

Religion was never the reason, ALLWAYS just an excuse for certent people too obtain power and/or publicity

Greetings

Religion was never the reason, ALLWAYS just an excuse for certent people too obtain power and/or publicity

I think religion is the reason in the minds of the young suicide bombers on the most part. I think religion is the excuse though, for the people who tell these young fanatics to blow up a bus.