NationStates Jolt Archive

I've seen some intresting claims made by Nazi revisionists. Like the swimming pool at Auchwitz etc.. Where can I find neutral sources of information about this stuff. I'm sure the Holocaust happened and millions died my thinking is if there was perhaps a collaborative level of prisoner who did enjoy privileges (perhaps non Jewish prisoners?) Where can I find out more that isn't Nazi propaganda or Anti-Nazi propaganda. I could see Jewish groups covering up that their were Jewish collaberators.

Google

I highly doubt you will find such things, even the history channel is very in-depth, but I find it highly unlikely to get any biased opinion on this since it is one of the most inhumane actions ever done in history.

The question is yes the Holocaust was horrible but exactly how horrible, what has been embelished by both sides to demonize the other.



Eraclea']I highly doubt you will find such things, even the history channel is very in-depth, but I find it highly unlikely to get any biased opinion on this since it is one of the most inhumane actions ever done in history.

The question is yes the Holocaust was horrible but exactly how horrible, what has been embelished by both sides to demonize the other.

It was pretty terrible. I don't imagine embellishment is necessary.

I've seen some intresting claims made by Nazi revisionists. Like the swimming pool at Auchwitz etc.. Where can I find neutral sources of information about this stuff. I'm sure the Holocaust happened and millions died my thinking is if there was perhaps a collaborative level of prisoner who did enjoy privileges (perhaps non Jewish prisoners?) Where can I find out more that isn't Nazi propaganda or Anti-Nazi propaganda. I could see Jewish groups covering up that their were Jewish collaberators.
I believe it will be really hard to get your hands on truly "neutral" information concerning the shoa and holocaust. Don't you mean "historically correct"? Because I cannot imagine being "neutral" on that topic, it's simply impossible by the sheer scale of the crime.

Yes, there was indeed a pool at Auschwitz. Yes, some prisoners became prisoners 1st class - and still died in the gas chambers.

What exactly is it that you're trying to get to, to accomplish?

Assuming that kind of thing did happen, I'll bet it isn not asomething you'll find on line. Your best bet may be doing some research through one of the big universities, or here in the US, the Library of Congress.

I really doubt records of that nature would ever have been put into a computer database of any sort.

It was pretty terrible. I don't imagine embellishment is necessary.
The point obviously cleared your head easily. It was pretty terrible based on the statements of the side you have heard.

There was, indeed, a swimming pool at Auschwitz, which the SS staff got to use. There was also a brothel and a band composed of jewish prisoners. How this "proves" that it was not a death camp is beyond me. The gas chambers sor of give it away.

For neutrality it would actually be hard to be the record produced by the US army at the time. The people who were in the army with their cameras, or the obligation to record the history frequently reguarded it as a sacred trust. The people who crunched the numbers, Bomb Damage Assesments et al, with the looming threat of the Uncle Joe were very candid and thurough in the prosecution of their duties. The surprise, shock, and horror that greated the allies stunned them. They knew it was awful but significant and aimed only to record what they found, not sell it.

don't go to eastern Europe....

Could give wiki a look that might have something

Wow that was a jump I don't recall anybody saying it wasn't a deathcamp and there weren't gas chambers. The question is ....does ANY of the information presented by the Holocaust revisionists hold any merit and if it does how does it change the way history is viewed. Does it make what was done any less evil? No it only paints a more complete picture. If the Nazi's ran a happy camp for the Red Cross to inspect while the ovens burned it only shows them as more evil but then you need to know how or why the others were spared and for how long.


There was, indeed, a swimming pool at Auschwitz, which the SS staff got to use. There was also a brothel and a band composed of jewish prisoners. How this "proves" that it was not a death camp is beyond me. The gas chambers sor of give it away.

The point obviously cleared your head easily. It was pretty terrible based on the statements of the side you have heard.

Even if the 'other' side painted a prettier picture, how do you make the murder of millions of people any less 'ok'? Perhaps there are individuals who embellish specific incidents, although the overwhelming physical evidence of the event alone should make one wonder why someone would need to embellish it.

You will never find neutral documentation on anything. Besides the fact that a person completely neutral to the event would have very little motivation to reasurch the event on such a grand scale, it is completely unlikely that their research wouldn't cause them to have some bias. After reading all those bias reports, you are going to eventually pick a side.

A few Jewish prisoners might have collaborated with death camp officials? That doesn't really change the horrific nature of what the Nazis did. It seems like any prison, work camp or death camp would have a few collaborators among the population - maybe they think they can get an easier deal from their captors that way. It's human nature, and it would happen anywhere in the world.

I've seen some intresting claims made by Nazi revisionists. Like the swimming pool at Auchwitz etc.. Where can I find neutral sources of information about this stuff. I'm sure the Holocaust happened and millions died my thinking is if there was perhaps a collaborative level of prisoner who did enjoy privileges (perhaps non Jewish prisoners?) Where can I find out more that isn't Nazi propaganda or Anti-Nazi propaganda. I could see Jewish groups covering up that their were Jewish collaberators.

I visited Aushwitz in 1994. I recommend you do the same. It was by far the place I attribute to being the worst on Earth. It has... presence. It has a wholly unholy feel about it, as if the land itself is disturbed.

And I was there early on a happy summer morning -- with few people around.

I'll never go back. Ever. You only need to see it once to know.

I don't think that's really a good answer to your question, but that's all I have.

(PS: I'm a Catholic Slovak-American.)

Blech.

Yes, there were some prisoners who were given privledges, but it was pretty arbitrary.

I learned most about it from books written by Holocaust survivors or people who have interviewed survivors. Why don't you read a book? "Night" by Elie Wiesel is a good place to start.

anyone been to auswitz,I have and I dont think anyone would be exagerating to say that it was the most disgusting,inhumane thing to be invented.It would be very difficult to find an unbiased source.believe me there was no swimming pool.
There probably were a few jewish collaberators,but I doubt there were many considering how much the nazi's hated the jews.

I visited Aushwitz in 1994. I recommend you do the same. It was by far the place I attribute to being the worst on Earth. It has... presence. It has a wholly unholy feel about it, as if the land itself is disturbed.

And I was there early on a happy summer morning -- with few people around.

I'll never go back. Ever. You only need to see it once to know.

I don't think that's really a good answer to your question, but that's all I have.

(PS: I'm a Catholic Slovak-American.)

did you notce that there were no animals around,i went last year and there were no birds, no animal noises,its as if they know what it was for.I found the gas chambers very traumatic....it was unholy..

There was, indeed, a swimming pool at Auschwitz, which the SS staff got to use. There was also a brothel and a band composed of jewish prisoners. How this "proves" that it was not a death camp is beyond me. The gas chambers sor of give it away.

I did not see it when I went, I assumed there wasnt one...I must look it up.

did you notce that there were no animals around,i went last year and there were no birds, no animal noises,its as if they know what it was for.I found the gas chambers very traumatic....it was unholy..

Yeah. Like nature abhors it. The dead lake seriously freaked me out too.

Yeah. Like nature abhors it. The dead lake seriously freaked me out too.
yeah, i noticed that too.
What really freaked me was the rooms of hair and shoes,I felt sick looking at the items the nazi bastards made out of people parts....

I did not see it when I went, I assumed there wasnt one...I must look it up.
While it's not the most reliable source, this one's not off revisionist pages or from some other dubious source (like just googling it).
http://www.usi.edu/music/SITES/MAD/GALLERY/tourgallery/Auschwitz.html

I've seen some intresting claims made by Nazi revisionists. Like the swimming pool at Auchwitz etc.. Where can I find neutral sources of information about this stuff. I'm sure the Holocaust happened and millions died my thinking is if there was perhaps a collaborative level of prisoner who did enjoy privileges (perhaps non Jewish prisoners?) Where can I find out more that isn't Nazi propaganda or Anti-Nazi propaganda. I could see Jewish groups covering up that their were Jewish collaberators.I can guarantee that there will be no neutral source on the holocaust. Reliable sources, yes, but no neutral ones.

My suggestion is look up those that are actually on-site, meaning the websites of the various camps and memorials. They're not neutral, but they do work on being reliable. Sachsenhausen, for instance, has been busy revising their exhibition ever since the reunification, weeding out exaggerations planted by the people that ran the memorial during the
GDR's time.

While it's not the most reliable source, this one's not off revisionist pages or from some other dubious source (like just googling it).
http://www.usi.edu/music/SITES/MAD/GALLERY/tourgallery/Auschwitz.html
thanks for the link I didnt see that whenI was there

I can guarantee that there will be no neutral source on the holocaust. Reliable sources, yes, but no neutral ones.

My suggestion is look up those that are actually on-site, meaning the websites of the various camps and memorials. They're not neutral, but they do work on being reliable. Sachsenhausen, for instance, has been busy revising their exhibition ever since the reunification, weeding out exaggerations planted by the people that ran the memorial during the
GDR's time.
I have bee to Sachsenhausen also, the exibition was very enlightening.Have you heard about the jewish hut in Sachsenhausen that was blown up by neo nazis.I was appaled when I saw it,it just proves they know it happened and want to get rid of the evidence!

I have bee to Sachsenhausen also, the exibition was very enlightening.Have you heard about the jewish hut in Sachsenhausen that was blown up by neo nazis.I was appaled when I saw it,it just proves they know it happened and want to get rid of the evidence!Wasn't a hut. It's one of the living areas and they set fire to it. You can still see the fire damage on the non-restored parts.

I can guarantee that there will be no neutral source on the holocaust. Reliable sources, yes, but no neutral ones.

My suggestion is look up those that are actually on-site, meaning the websites of the various camps and memorials. They're not neutral, but they do work on being reliable. Sachsenhausen, for instance, has been busy revising their exhibition ever since the reunification, weeding out exaggerations planted by the people that ran the memorial during the
GDR's time.

For example: http://www.library.yale.edu/testimonies/excerpts/index.html

...if Yale University isn't trustworthy, I give up!!

Wasn't a hut. It's one of the living areas and they set fire to it. You can still see the fire damage on the non-restored parts.

hut,living area, whatever, I have been there and stood inside a part of it.

yeah, i noticed that too.
What really freaked me was the rooms of hair and shoes,I felt sick looking at the items the nazi bastards made out of people parts....
1. Whats the "dead lake"?

2. I think the nazis making lamp shades and soap out of people is a myth....I saw something about it from an Israeli historian who debunked it.

1. Whats the "dead lake"?

2. I think the nazis making lamp shades and soap out of people is a myth....I saw something about it from an Israeli historian who debunked it.The lampshades thing, to my knowledge, is real. I saw pictures of it when I was younger and they've removed them by now because they are quite graphic. The lampshades weren't made of human skin just like that, it was tattooed skin. There was a big amount of stuff that's being removed because it has turned out to be fake, though.

1. Whats the "dead lake"?

2. I think the nazis making lamp shades and soap out of people is a myth....I saw something about it from an Israeli historian who debunked it.

Ive seen some in auswitz,horrible, there were blankets made of hair lamps and book covers made of skin.really sick making...

The lampshades thing, to my knowledge, is real. I saw pictures of it when I was younger and they've removed them by now because they are quite graphic. The lampshades weren't made of human skin just like that, it was tattooed skin. There was a big amount of stuff that's being removed because it has turned out to be fake, though.

Ive seen some in auswitz,horrible, there were blankets made of hair lamps and book covers made of skin.really sick making...


I know what you guys are talking about...they claim to have it in my Jewish Community Center's museum.

But I'm telling you, I'm pretty sure its fact...and was proven so by an Israeli historian.

I'm gonna go look it up, hold on. Whats the dead lake?

Still looking for the one I told you about but this is pretty much the same thing:

http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/soap.shtml

Says the soap stuff was a rumor.

Still looking for the one I told you about but this is pretty much the same thing:

http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/soap.shtml

Says the soap stuff was a rumor.
The soap bit I can understand. It does seem far fetched (and which Nazi would want to wash themselves with soap made of body fat from a "sub-human"?).

The soap bit I can understand. It does seem far fetched (and which Nazi would want to wash themselves with soap made of body fat from a "sub-human"?).
Ja.

Anyway, there was another article like that debunking the lampshades also....but I cant seem to find it right now.

The Israeli who wrote the article said, "We need to stop repeating these lies, as it only adds ammo to the holocaust deniers arsenol".

I can only agree...even if you dont say Nazis made lampshades and soap out of Jews...it doesnt really make the holocaust any easer on the mind...so why repeat lies?

David Cole did some research and went to Aushwitz(sp?). He later recanted, saying he was threatened by the JDL. But he spoke of some interesting things. Like the gas chambers having had walls removed after Russia came in or something. Can't remember right now. And there being only small traces left of the gas that was used. The currency used in the camps etc.. Just google David Cole holocaust .. I considered him neutral, being as he is a jew... but you make up your own mind.

I visited Aushwitz in 1994.did you see the plates?

There was, indeed, a swimming pool at Auschwitz, which the SS staff got to use. There was also a brothel and a band composed of jewish prisoners. How this "proves" that it was not a death camp is beyond me. The gas chambers sort of give it away.
As did the piles of dead bodies.

Always a give-away that one is in a death camp and not a holiday camp.

did you see the plates?

A roomful of plates? Not that I recall, but I do remember the rooms of luggage, eye glasses, and shoes.

A few of you people may have been around long enough to remember the really avid NS Nazis, and the continual Holocaust Denial threads that were always around.

In one such thread, when one such Lowlife asked a question I had no answer to, I e-mailed the Curator of the Auschwitz-Birkenau Museum.
She was happy to help.

Holocaust Deniers are artists.

They asked questionsdesigned to plant false ideas, and quite simply, make shit up.

They ask the same questions a million times, and hope that one person doesnt know the answer, they then attempt to plant a seed of doubt in that one persons mind.

It works like this:

They ask a question that has grisly connentations, like:
"If so many people were truly cremated at Auschwitz, where did the ash and bone fragments go?"

Now this IS a valid question, and its not one that many know the answer to.
THATS what they go after.
They are hoping you DONT know, so they can say "There never WERE any ashes, becuase no one was actually cremated."

Now, this is of course, utter shit.
The truth is, most of the ashes were scattered over farmland, and dumped in nearby rivers.
In fact, there are still places in Auschwitz, where you can see human ash, even after 60 years.

This is the kind of tactic they use to try to convince people of something other than the truth.

David Cole did some research and went to Aushwitz(sp?). He later recanted, saying he was threatened by the JDL. But he spoke of some interesting things. Like the gas chambers having had walls removed after Russia came in or something. Can't remember right now. And there being only small traces left of the gas that was used. The currency used in the camps etc.. Just google David Cole holocaust .. I considered him neutral, being as he is a jew... but you make up your own mind.



Some walls were in fact rebuilt.
The place was bombed by the Germans, shortly before its liberation, to hide some of the evidence of what had been going on.

snip
Of course, you've just described the common tactic of every conspiracist.
The idea is that if you can prove just one thing, no matter how insignificant or trivial wrong, that somehow 'proves' the entire case to be fradulent.

Look at the 9/11 nutjobs.

Of course, you've just described the common tactic of every conspiracist.
The idea is that if you can prove just one thing, no matter how insignificant or trivial wrong, that somehow 'proves' the entire case to be fradulent.

Look at the 9/11 nutjobs.


Thing is, some people are just hard-wired to believe a conspiracytheory.
Its almost not thier fault.
I myself love a good conspiracy.

Holocaust Deniers piss me off, however.

I think part of the problem is that the whole Holocaust has been a "hands off" "sacred cow" kind of subject that any legitimate historian who questions any aspect of the Holocaust is labeled a Nazi and Anti-Semitic. I'd like to see who the fact and figures were compiled by and by what methods. I'd like to see if the 6 million is a actual number or a "best guess"
and if the figure was revised to 4.8 million, would that wash the blood from anybody's hands ? I'm most curious to find out how many people were killed outright as opposed to died due to abuse neglect and over work. I'd like to know if the Red Cross really did inspect the camps and if so why aren't they being help up to the scrutiny of history.

Thing is, some people are just hard-wired to believe a conspiracytheory.
Its almost not thier fault.
I myself love a good conspiracy.

Holocaust Deniers piss me off, however.
Yeah, you're forgetting that the starter of this thread never once denied that the holocaust took place.

The soap bit I can understand. It does seem far fetched (and which Nazi would want to wash themselves with soap made of body fat from a "sub-human"?).


I also read somehwere that when the concentration camp inmates had their heads shaved , the cut hair was somehow incorporated into a felt as insulation for soldier's boots.... Is this another rumor?

Or has anyone else heard of this too?

Yeah, you're forgetting that the starter of this thread never once denied that the holocaust took place.
And BS (heh) never said he did.