NationStates Jolt Archive

I mean, we've all heard how the UK has been the world's largest empire--large enough that part of it was always in the sun-- and all that other stuff, but how? I mean it is just a tiny little island, which could project power across the world. How did it get itself in that position?

I mean, we've all heard how the UK has been the world's largest empire--large enough that part of it was always in the sun-- and all that other stuff, but how? I mean it is just a tiny little island, which could project power across the world. How did it get itself in that position?

Colonies, good navy, James Bond. Not necessarily in that order.

Well...you see....The English are a naturally superior people...this of course comes from being an offshoot of the Germanic-tribes and....


Hah! You didnt actually beleive me did you!

Nah, its just because the English have bad teeth and they threatend anyone who didnt become their vassals with gingevitus and tooth-decay.

Magic beans.

I've said too much.

Well...you see....The English are a naturally superior people...this of course comes from being an offshoot of the Germanic-tribes and....


Hah! You didnt actually beleive me did you!

Nah, its just because the English have bad teeth and they threatend anyone who didnt become their vassals with gingevitus and tooth-decay.
:D

"Bow to me, or have teeth like mine!"

I think it had a lot to do with the fact that it hasn't been successfully invaded for centuries. It (usually) had far less to worry about its borders than continental nations.

:D

"Bow to me, or have teeth like mine!"

Get away from me, ya fugly Englishman...before I go all American-Revolution on yo' pale ass, muffucka'.:p

Colonies, good navy, James Bond. Not necessarily in that order.
Invention and balls.

The tools of navigation, the skill of sailing, the balls to explore the world, and the firearms to make it happen. Business acumen to exploit the world.

Same reason the US was able to gain larger status after the last two world wars...

Relative isolation from domestic conflict over long periods of time...and capitalism.

Potatoes actually had a lot to do with it. And the fact that the french wouldn't eat them, giving the UK a favorable balance of trade with cereal exports.

Being blessed early on with fairly abundant natural resources didn't hurt either. They had forests to denude, minerals to dig up. Also, the British Isles were in an easy to defend geographical location off Europe's coast.

Being on an island and having a huge emphasis on a good navy.

Their navy saved the brits more times than they could count when they were building their empire... Cant fight them if you cant get your soldiers there.

Hell, Napolean had 150,000 men sitting at the coast of france thinking of a way to distract the british navy so he could deliver them :p

They were ruthless mercantilists who by necessity dominated the seas for home defense. They then took the roughest characters on their home island and exported them abroad, in a naval kind of hit-and-run that no non-European power could match.

Because they were more reliant on seapower than their European neighbours, they by necessity excelled at it.

They were also exceedingly good civil administrators, although I don't know if they were any better than any other colonial power.

They were blessed with an isolated geographic position that allowed the UK to be relatively free from the threat of invasion without massive tax levy armies, developed a navy able to project power, possessed a tradition in which the monarch was not absolute, and developed capitalism and later industrial capitalism to keep an economy capable of supporting an Empire chugging along merrily.

The reason the Empire withered away after the Second World War was primarily the damage done by two World Wars to the British economy and the resulting loss of its ability to maintain a colonial presence over one-quarter of the world's surface area.

They developed exploding cannonballs and used them against the Spanish Armada. After they ruled the waves it was mostly a matter of using ambition greed and cold hearted bloody mindedness over time.

I think it all started with who could be "stuffier" the French or the British.I'm still not really sure who won that battle, maybe the French. All those years of status battling the French gave the British a high degree of " Corn Cob up the Assious" syndrome. Hence the so called "British Reserve". Which in turn became quite an asset in comming wars. You see having developed " corn Cob Up the Assious " gave them a great and huge misfortunate case of constipation, which in turn fueled their anger and fighting abilities. In other words they seceretly hoped that by fighting other nations all the time some one might club them in the gut and they would crap their pants relieving them of their constipation.

Ha ha.. o.k just messin with the island across the pond. Tally ho gents! lol

Scotland.

The less recognized part of the U.K, but if anybody refers to the UK as England, and a Scot (such as myself) hears it, they will be quick to point out your mistake.

British Economics during the high point of its imperial days were based, largely, on the Scottish Philosopher and Economist Adam Smith, writer of "The Wealth of the Nations." He basically made a case for Laissez-Faire capitalism, stating that when individuals each look out for their own good, the society benefits indirectly. The reason you get food is not because the butcher feels like helping you, rather, he wants to make a profit off the meats he sells, and thus it is that you get your meats. Britain allowed its entrepreneurs an extraordinary amount of lee-way, it was thus that they were able to find their own methods of exploiting various other peoples for economic gain. Thus, the UK adopted a Celtic manner of conquest, driven by Saxon bloodlust, and slightly doctored with some Norman tact. (I'm allowed to stereotype here, I have ancestors to these groups and more.) When the Industrial Revolution came around, this mentality put people on the road to the construction of factories and the idea of mass production. Andrew Carnegie was a Scotsman, and avid one at that. He was very knowledgeable in Smith's work, and look at the result.

The UK was able to integrate a number of different peoples, customs, and methods of thinking into one, cohesive, unstoppable force. It was only with the emergence of those evil, chaotic beings known as "Liberals" that the evil, orderly beings known as "Conservatives" were weakened to the point that the colonies broke free. That is why they were able to grow so powerful. They adopted a mindset that allowed the individual to act, which is much more efficient than governments and peoples that require certain regualtions, agreements, and other "red-tape" obligations be met. If you're free to act, then you can circumvent obstacles your opposition faces, and then cart back the loot to the Motherland.

In all seriousness, two words.

Industrial revolution

Check your history books

A combination of several things: emphasis on trade and commerce, a powerful navy, technological superiority, high-productivity industry, and high levels of industrialization and urbanization. All of these worked together to enable the UK to develop a powerful economy and edge out Continental powers still struggling to overcome autocratic rulers, an agrarian economy, and a conservative nobility.

Combine that with a parliamentary republic, extensive civil rights, and the lack of an influential landed nobility and it becomes fairly clear as to the reasons for British dominance in the 18th, 19th, and early 20th centuries

In all seriousness, two words.

Industrial revolution

Check your history books

Well, sinking almost everybody elses' merchant fleet during the napoleonic wars didn't hurt either.

There are two more responsible than anyone else for Britain's superiority:

Danger Mouse & Penfold.

There are two more responsible than anyone else for Britain's superiority:

Danger Mouse & Penfold.

Don't forget Johnny English.

Scotland.

The less recognized part of the U.K, but if anybody refers to the UK as England, and a Scot (such as myself) hears it, they will be quick to point out your mistake.

British Economics during the high point of its imperial days were based, largely, on the Scottish Philosopher and Economist Adam Smith, writer of "The Wealth of the Nations." He basically made a case for Laissez-Faire capitalism, stating that when individuals each look out for their own good, the society benefits indirectly. The reason you get food is not because the butcher feels like helping you, rather, he wants to make a profit off the meats he sells, and thus it is that you get your meats. Britain allowed its entrepreneurs an extraordinary amount of lee-way, it was thus that they were able to find their own methods of exploiting various other peoples for economic gain. Thus, the UK adopted a Celtic manner of conquest, driven by Saxon bloodlust, and slightly doctored with some Norman tact. (I'm allowed to stereotype here, I have ancestors to these groups and more.) When the Industrial Revolution came around, this mentality put people on the road to the construction of factories and the idea of mass production. Andrew Carnegie was a Scotsman, and avid one at that. He was very knowledgeable in Smith's work, and look at the result.

The UK was able to integrate a number of different peoples, customs, and methods of thinking into one, cohesive, unstoppable force. It was only with the emergence of those evil, chaotic beings known as "Liberals" that the evil, orderly beings known as "Conservatives" were weakened to the point that the colonies broke free. That is why they were able to grow so powerful. They adopted a mindset that allowed the individual to act, which is much more efficient than governments and peoples that require certain regualtions, agreements, and other "red-tape" obligations be met. If you're free to act, then you can circumvent obstacles your opposition faces, and then cart back the loot to the Motherland.

Also it helped that Scotland fiscally ruined itself in it's ill fated try at imperialism in the Americas. That sorta left England to itself in Great Britain regarding global empire building.

First to industrialize, availability of natural resources, access to the sea, reliance on the sea, superb navy, strong military tradition, strong continuous, unconquered, cultural tradition, adaptable society, adaptable language, capitalist, liberal, integrative society. Many, complex, interlocking reasons.

CHA!!!

I mean, we've all heard how the UK has been the world's largest empire--large enough that part of it was always in the sun-- and all that other stuff, but how? I mean it is just a tiny little island, which could project power across the world. How did it get itself in that position?
If you really are that interested in the hows and whys as to England's dominance, I'd suggest you hunt down and read Eric Hobsbawm's magnificent long 19th century (as in the start of the French revolution to the start of WW I) trilogy.
"The Age of Revolution" 1789-1848
"The Age of Capital" 1848-1875
"The Age of Empire" 1875 - 1914

And then possibly follow it up with his short 20th century work,
"The Age of Extremes" (the 20th Century from 1914 to 1991- WWI to fall of Communism).

I mean, we've all heard how the UK has been the world's largest empire--large enough that part of it was always in the sun-- and all that other stuff, but how? I mean it is just a tiny little island, which could project power across the world. How did it get itself in that position?

Stealing, murdering and what have you ...

CHA!!!
NOWAI!!!

If you really are that interested in the hows and whys as to England's dominance, I'd suggest you hunt down and read Eric Hobsbawm's magnificent long 19th century (as in the start of the French revolution to the start of WW I) trilogy.
"The Age of Revolution" 1789-1848
"The Age of Capital" 1848-1875
"The Age of Empire" 1875 - 1914

And then possibly follow it up with his short 20th century work,
"The Age of Extremes" (the 20th Century from 1914 to 1991- WWI to fall of Communism).

I read them. Quite enlightening indeed.

Builder's tea, and lots of it.

Their Financial trait (+1 on plots with 3 commerce) was handy in establishing economic superiority. Also British Redcoats had 16 combat which outclassed other Industrial Era units.

CHA!!!

Didn't they only get tea after they were a superpower? :p

:fluffle:

we had blackadder. nah most of it stems from trading and gewtting onside with the local elites who would maintain order. and killind those who disagreed and wouldnt buy our tea. we also had people like edmund blackadder

As Eddie Izzard would have you know it was all to do with flags. 'No flag, no country'. Simple. The Americans only started getting rebellious when they started to design their own flag. Flags are the key, nothing else matters.

Scotland.

The less recognized part of the U.K, but if anybody refers to the UK as England, and a Scot (such as myself) hears it, they will be quick to point out your mistake.

British Economics during the high point of its imperial days were based, largely, on the Scottish Philosopher and Economist Adam Smith, writer of "The Wealth of the Nations." He basically made a case for Laissez-Faire capitalism, stating that when individuals each look out for their own good, the society benefits indirectly. The reason you get food is not because the butcher feels like helping you, rather, he wants to make a profit off the meats he sells, and thus it is that you get your meats. Britain allowed its entrepreneurs an extraordinary amount of lee-way, it was thus that they were able to find their own methods of exploiting various other peoples for economic gain. Thus, the UK adopted a Celtic manner of conquest, driven by Saxon bloodlust, and slightly doctored with some Norman tact. (I'm allowed to stereotype here, I have ancestors to these groups and more.) When the Industrial Revolution came around, this mentality put people on the road to the construction of factories and the idea of mass production. Andrew Carnegie was a Scotsman, and avid one at that. He was very knowledgeable in Smith's work, and look at the result.

The UK was able to integrate a number of different peoples, customs, and methods of thinking into one, cohesive, unstoppable force. It was only with the emergence of those evil, chaotic beings known as "Liberals" that the evil, orderly beings known as "Conservatives" were weakened to the point that the colonies broke free. That is why they were able to grow so powerful. They adopted a mindset that allowed the individual to act, which is much more efficient than governments and peoples that require certain regualtions, agreements, and other "red-tape" obligations be met. If you're free to act, then you can circumvent obstacles your opposition faces, and then cart back the loot to the Motherland.


Indeed, Scotland was key to some british sucess- their soldiers like the Royal Scots Dragoons and the Black Watch.
The British always a proud warrior race who remembered their past glories.
Alas, no longer. What remains of that race are few in number or mindless football hooligans. All we have now are wimps, especially the government.

There is very little "great" in Great Britain now.

Coconuts and European swallows. :p

I mean, we've all heard how the UK has been the world's largest empire--large enough that part of it was always in the sun-- and all that other stuff, but how? I mean it is just a tiny little island, which could project power across the world. How did it get itself in that position?

Tea. Its all about the Tea. East India Tea Company-Very powerful. Colonies. Navy helped too. That the UK was more advanced than other nations ,united under one government and a monarchy (em kinda of) meant they were more organised to take over poor innocent countries like their wonderful but wild neighbours and other misfortunates. Any country in that position would have done the same thing!

Coconuts and European swallows. :p

An African swallow maybe, but not a European swallow :p

we also had people like edmund blackadder

Mr. Bean-The Conquerer for the British Isles!







Blackadder=Best Show in the Universe!

Strong Navy, Industrial Revolution leading to a very high technology base, capitalist/mercantile society, relative political stability compared to european competitors from the end of the 18th C. onwards. All combined to produce an empire.

Cos we're cool like that:p Anyway other nations might of underestimated the UK because it was so small which made it even more deadly. "To underestimate the enemy is to concede defeat." -

I mean, we've all heard how the UK has been the world's largest empire--large enough that part of it was always in the sun-- and all that other stuff, but how? I mean it is just a tiny little island, which could project power across the world. How did it get itself in that position?

Actually they were more like the 3rd largest empire. Unless you are only counting the last 500 years or so.

Anyway it's mainly because we had the best armies and technology etc...

As Eddie Izzard would have you know it was all to do with flags. 'No flag, no country'. Simple. The Americans only started getting rebellious when they started to design their own flag. Flags are the key, nothing else matters.

Pfft those americans just copied the East India Companies flag :p

Actually they were more like the 3rd largest empire. Unless you are only counting the last 500 years or so.

Anyway it's mainly because we had the best armies and technology etc...

I knew that the Golden Horde's empire was bigger, but what is the second one?

Actually they were more like the 3rd largest empire. Unless you are only counting the last 500 years or so.

Anyway it's mainly because we had the best armies and technology etc...

Who were the other two? I'm assuming the Mongols are one - did the actual landmass they conquered exceed that of the British Empire? And more importantly, did anyone ever make a film about 100 Mongols fighting off 4000 Zulus at Rorke's Drift eh? :p


But as to the actual question, I can't believe none of you have got it yet, I mean it's blindingly obvious; spick and span uniforms, and most of all, dashig red jackets dammit!

The Magna Carta

Allowing (eventualy) the British to be able to think independently and not under the thumb of imperial wannabee's....

Well until Ronny Raygun and the Thatch...

bitch

As the greatest military tactician in history, we must look to the wise words of Arnold Judas Rimmer: "Shiny clean boots and a spanking short haircut and you can cope with anything."

It might also have something to do with being consecutively conquered by the strongest military forces, who then chose to stay - basically, a history of 'concentrating' successful conquerors.

Wool, the Royal Navy, and the industrial revolution.

The British always a proud warrior race who remembered their past glories.
Alas, no longer. What remains of that race are few in number or mindless football hooligans. All we have now are wimps, especially the government.

There is very little "great" in Great Britain now.
I think that's a very rose tinted view of the past. Wellington was probably closer to the truth when he referred to his army as the mere scum of the earth; most of them will have joined up for the prospect of free drink and loot, and the prospect of beating up foreigners.
But replacing an england football shirt and a thrown cafe chair with a red coat and a brown bess, with a bit of hanging and flogging to keep them in line, makes the difference between tabloid condemnation and universal praise at home for bringing civilisation to the savages.

And the officer class weren't any better, as likely to produce a Raglan as a Wolfe, so that for every glorious victory recorded to posterity there was at least one unmitigated disaster quietly hushed over.

Their Financial trait (+1 on plots with 3 commerce) was handy in establishing economic superiority. Also British Redcoats had 16 combat which outclassed other Industrial Era units.

Same reason I tend to go with Elizabeth or Victoria. *nods*

Also British Redcoats had 16 combat which outclassed other Industrial Era units.

Pretty powerful for a bunch of wannabe light entertainers from a Butlins Holiday Camp. Though I still think it was a mistake to field them during the American Revolution.

Actually they were more like the 3rd largest empire. Unless you are only counting the last 500 years or so.

Anyway it's mainly because we had the best armies and technology etc...

I thought the British Empire just beat the Mongol empire in land area and trounced it completely by population size.

As I am too lazy at the moment to find a proper source I will use wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_largest_empires

However as a percentage of the worlds total population then the Mongol empire is greater, but so are several other empires. (according to wiki anyway)

If you really are that interested in the hows and whys as to England's dominance, I'd suggest you hunt down and read Eric Hobsbawm's magnificent long 19th century (as in the start of the French revolution to the start of WW I) trilogy.
"The Age of Revolution" 1789-1848
"The Age of Capital" 1848-1875
"The Age of Empire" 1875 - 1914

And then possibly follow it up with his short 20th century work,
"The Age of Extremes" (the 20th Century from 1914 to 1991- WWI to fall of Communism).

I am a history student and one of my professors was discussing Hobsbawm's works. He said (and I quote) that Hobsbawm is an "unreconstructed Stalinist bastard".

Just a small anecdote for you there.

I am a history student and one of my professors was discussing Hobsbawm's works. He said (and I quote) that Hobsbawm is an "unreconstructed Stalinist bastard".

Just a small anecdote for you there.
Then you should look at Jared Diamonds "Guns, Germs & Steel"

Wellington was probably closer to the truth when he referred to his army as the mere scum of the earth...


"... but what soldiers have we made out of them!"

People tend to forget to complete that quote.

Who were the other two? I'm assuming the Mongols are one - did the actual landmass they conquered exceed that of the British Empire? And more importantly, did anyone ever make a film about 100 Mongols fighting off 4000 Zulus at Rorke's Drift eh?!

The Mongols attacked the Great Wall of 10,000 li and were the first military force to use sweet and sour pork as an offensive weapon...need I say more?

The Magna Carta

Tell me you're not serious...please?

Tell me you're not serious...please?

So you don't think that the basis of our democratic system had no hand in developing Britain to point where it was able to take advantage of its position?

So you don't think that the basis of our democratic system had no hand in developing Britain to point where it was able to take advantage of its position?

As noble a concept as the Magna Carta is, democracy does not automatically mean sucess and victory. There are historical examples of democracies being trounced by non-democracies.

No, it was more and better ships, more and better guns, and the desire to import trade goods from foreign nations with terms dictated by gunpoint.

Britain had grown due to three decisive factors:

1) Warfare - because of the place Britain has in Europe, it allowed Britain to wage war on the mainland without any reasonable threat to its homeland. It was able to send troops and forces through to the mainland of Europe, adapt to its enemies and focus completely on offense without much need for a ground defensive force, as it is backed up by its powerful navy. By doing this, it fought off threats such as the French and the Spanish for quite a while, without placing it in danger. Isolation does very little help to an empire - look at Confucianistic China.

2) Political System - Britain's Political system was unique during its time, a constitutional democracy in sorts that allowed them to govern to the needs of the empire rather than a single political figure. Whereas the rest of the world was placed in a series of Oligarchal or Single Rulers, the quasi-democratic system Britain adopted allowed a quicker, more efficient growth that kept Britain stable, and thus allowed them to gain the ability to manage their territories.

3) Industry - it was the first empire to reach the Industrial Revolution, simple as that. Not to mention its formidable navy, which rought supplies from all over the world, such as India, the growing British market began to outrival the markets of its competing nations, placing it ahead of others.

As noble a concept as the Magna Carta is, democracy does not automatically mean sucess and victory. There are historical examples of democracies being trounced by non-democracies.

No, it was more and better ships, more and better guns, and the desire to import trade goods from foreign nations with terms dictated by gunpoint.

What allowed the rise of the middle classes?

What allowed the rise of the middle classes?

Economics. More people with money to buy the goods that the british extorted from others at the barrel of a gun (or by trading for opium.) The rise of a merchant class and the bourgeosie has little to do with democracy per se, although in later years, democracy was great for redistribution of wealth and the further rise of a middle class.

But not during the rise of the Empire.

Economics. More people with money to buy the goods that the british extorted from others at the barrel of a gun (or by trading for opium.) The rise of a merchant class and the bourgeosie has little to do with democracy per se, although in later years, democracy was great for redistribution of wealth and the further rise of a middle class.

But not during the rise of the Empire.

Good answer! But not the answer to my question.

The removal of divine right and application of the rule of law allowed the rise of the middle classes.

So you don't think that the basis of our democratic system had no hand in developing Britain to point where it was able to take advantage of its position?

I might well have done, but Magna Carta has nothing to do with democracy. It is about securing some rights of magnataes in the early 13thC feudal society, while recognising the ultimate role of the King as head of everything, and the people as bottom of everything.

It furthers the rights of a small number at the top, entrenches the role of the dictator, and further oppresses the masses.

Some basis for democracy.

The ignorance of what Magna Carta actually is is what I was wondering about....

By being more horrible than anyone else on the Planet.

I might well have done, but Magna Carta has nothing to do with democracy. It is about securing some rights of magnataes in the early 13thC feudal society, while recognising the ultimate role of the King as head of everything, and the people as bottom of everything.

It furthers the rights of a small number at the top, entrenches the role of the dictator, and further oppresses the masses.

Some basis for democracy.
While this is entirely true, the signing of the Magna Carta was a key step towards England getting a Parliament - it showed that the King wasn't absolutely powerful if a group of barons could force him to sign a document against his will. In the middle of the 13th century (around 1265, I think), the first 'parliament' was called to meet over further grievances against the King (a Henry, can't remember which), brought about during Simon de Montfort's (failed) rebellion. Over the next fifty years this parliament began to meet more often and have more influence over the King, especially during the reign of Edward II, as many barons, earls, etc, were pissed off over Edward's blatant favouritism. From that point on, the rise of a parliament was pretty much unstoppable.

You might well ask why the Egyptian Empire grew so large, even though where it started is basically a few miles of lush farmland, bordering a desert river. Same for the Persian Empires, or the Roman.

All these places started off with something good, and expanded upon it. With luck, good judgement and business sense, they turned something quite unpromising into something spectacular and majestic.

Tea.
By wanting Tea, and being strong enough to take it, the urge for things to have in/with there tea, like sugar, and exotic fruits.

India, Ceylon grows tea.
Indies gorws sugar

Wants we had all the tea we could drink, we set about conquering everything else, as a matter of pride, and greediness and because the Victorians and Georgians were legends...


Also look at Japan. They are small islands and people who have Imperial tendancies.

Its a small Island nation thing... watch out for New Zealand....

While this is entirely true, the signing of the Magna Carta was a key step towards England getting a Parliament - it showed that the King wasn't absolutely powerful if a group of barons could force him to sign a document against his will.

Well, when you consider that the King revoked it more or less immediately after it was signed, and was from then on only issued as a tool to appease the Barons so the King could get what he wanted off them....it went from being a sign of the Barons being able to force the King into doing what they wanted, to being a sign of the King being able to control the Barons by offering them a few rights that didn't really get in the way of what he was doing anyway.

In the middle of the 13th century (around 1265, I think), the first 'parliament' was called to meet over further grievances against the King (a Henry, can't remember which), brought about during Simon de Montfort's (failed) rebellion.

It was Henry III during the Second Baron's War. The problem with de Montfort's Parliament was that it wasn't called by the King, so it had no legal authority. The precedent of having any form of representation wasn't taken up again until 1295, under Edward I, who only needed Parliament so that he could fund his wars in Wales and Scotland, something he would have needed with or without Magna Carta.

Over the next fifty years this parliament began to meet more often and have more influence over the King, especially during the reign of Edward II, as many barons, earls, etc, were pissed off over Edward's blatant favouritism. From that point on, the rise of a parliament was pretty much unstoppable.

I feel you overplay Parliament's hand during Edward II's reign. The Barons exiled the Despensers, but Edward brought them back and destroyed the Baron's cause at Boroughbridge in 1322. As for his his disposition, well it can be very validly said that's when Parliament took on a significantly greater importance than it had held before then.

And I wouldn't agree that it was "pretty much unstoppable", it was nearly an insignificance by the end of the Wars of the Roses, and only came back into power under Elizabeth I.


Anyhow...I fail to see what most, if not all, of that had to do with Magna Carta. What Magna Carta did was set out that the Crown couldn't levy extra taxes without the consent of his council, and saiod he had to call the Great Council (which, admittedly, is what Parliament developed from). However, parliaments (small 'p') of srts had existed in forms before Magna Carta (such as the Witengamot, or the Curia Regis.

No doubt it is fairly important, but I feel it's significance is often overstated.

Flags.

We stole countries! That's how you build an empire. We stole countries with the cunning use of flags! Sail halfway around the world, stick a flag in. "I claim India for Britain." And they're going, "You can't claim us. We live here! There's five hundred million of us." "Do you have a flag?"

[/Eddie Izzard]

Good answer! But not the answer to my question.

The removal of divine right and application of the rule of law allowed the rise of the middle classes.

A middle class emerged in France despite the idea of divine right and absolutism. It was the fuel to the fire of the French Revolution. In France, the middle class came first, and then the removal of divine right and application of the rule of law.

A middle class emerged in France despite the idea of divine right and absolutism. It was the fuel to the fire of the French Revolution. In France, the middle class came first, and then the removal of divine right and application of the rule of law.

Bloody French! :rolleyes: :p LOL

Ok...I am cool with that.

gah....beaten by the bloody French LOL

Luck isn't a good enough reason? Beating the Spanish Armada was luck as well as beating the French in the various wars they had. Things could easily have gone badly. But it was their navy that was the main reason I suppose.

Bloody French! :rolleyes: :p LOL

Ok...I am cool with that.

gah....beaten by the bloody French LOL

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say you were beaten by the French! Egads! Just say that you fell to the economic vs. the democratic argument. Saves you the embarrasment!

The Mongols attacked the Great Wall of 10,000 li and were the first military force to use sweet and sour pork as an offensive weapon...need I say more?

Okay, the sweet and sour pork thing is pretty hardcore (care to explain how exactly they used it as a weapon? It sounds... interesting :D) but come on - the Great Wall isn't all it's cracked up to be - most of it wasn't even manned; all you'd need is a ladder and you're laughing. And when all is said and done, did the Mongols have spiffing, bright red coats dammit?!

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say you were beaten by the French! Egads! Just say that you fell to the economic vs. the democratic argument. Saves you the embarrasment!

LOL :)

A middle class emerged in France despite the idea of divine right and absolutism. It was the fuel to the fire of the French Revolution. In France, the middle class came first, and then the removal of divine right and application of the rule of law.


We'd already done that 100 years previously with the glorious revolution.

What gave the UK its empire was the frightning combination of Scot's fighting and engineering ability, coupled with the English's money and deviousness
And the sheer terror the welsh male voice choirs could bring

Plus the fact germany never existed as a country until 1872, while France spent most of the 1800's imploding and selling off bits of her empire.

And the reason the sun never set on the British Empire....... Because God did'nt trust the b******ds in the dark

Luck isn't a good enough reason? Beating the Spanish Armada was luck as well as beating the French in the various wars they had. Things could easily have gone badly. But it was their navy that was the main reason I suppose.


Spanish were far tougher then the French though. It took educated and experience...plus nature. :D

We'd already done that 100 years previously with the glorious revolution.

What gave the UK its empire was the frightning combination of Scot's fighting and engineering ability, coupled with the English's money and deviousness
And the sheer terror the welsh male voice choirs could bring

And don't forget the Irish....who actually got things done (and had basically one of the two or three industrial hearts of the Empire at points, in Belfast).

I thought the British Empire just beat the Mongol empire in land area and trounced it completely by population size.

As I am too lazy at the moment to find a proper source I will use wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_largest_empires

However as a percentage of the worlds total population then the Mongol empire is greater, but so are several other empires. (according to wiki anyway)

I wouldn't trust that. Less on general principle of 'Wiki=EbiL!!!' more because of this...

Mongol Empire: 28.9% (130 million out of 450 million

That's percent of world population...

And don't forget the Irish....who actually got things done (and had basically one of the two or three industrial hearts of the Empire at points, in Belfast).
Don't worry .
*pets*
We'll never forget you. :D

I mean, we've all heard how the UK has been the world's largest empire--large enough that part of it was always in the sun-- and all that other stuff, but how? I mean it is just a tiny little island, which could project power across the world. How did it get itself in that position?
The key to British dominance was always the Royal Navy. Alfred Thayer Mahan's "The Influence of Seapower upon History" best documents the rise of the British Emprie through its navy.

The fall of the British Empire also did coincide with a fall of the Royal Navy. (although that wasn't the cause for the fall of the Emprie)

The US rise to being a global superpower also coincides with the US building a large Navy. Now, the US Navy is probably a large reason why the US is in the position it is today.

China's lack of a blue water fleet is largely the reason that despite their economy they are just a regional power.

Being on an island and having a huge emphasis on a good navy.

Their navy saved the brits more times than they could count when they were building their empire... Cant fight them if you cant get your soldiers there.

Hell, Napolean had 150,000 men sitting at the coast of france thinking of a way to distract the british navy so he could deliver them :p
I wonder what would've happened had Trafalgar gone the other way. Had that happened, France would've likely invaded England. History would've turned out quite differently.

Being on an island and having a huge emphasis on a good navy.

Their navy saved the brits more times than they could count when they were building their empire... Cant fight them if you cant get your soldiers there.

Hell, Napolean had 150,000 men sitting at the coast of france thinking of a way to distract the british navy so he could deliver them :p
And whats more when England/Britain, sent Troops to the continent they never were very large or did very well, except Marlborough, they mostly relied on their Navy to show their influence.

How did the UK get so Powerful?

Hot sexy women and men who liked to get spanked and eat spotted dick and roly-poly pudding, that is the secret.

Royal Navy,the Industrial Revolution and the Bayonet

I wonder what would've happened had Trafalgar gone the other way. Had that happened, France would've likely invaded England. History would've turned out quite differently.

There was a quite humorous tv advert in Britain for a French beer recently supposing just the same. It featured Buckingham Palace Hotel, Napoleons Coloumn, and a guy buying "languistine and frites"!

Also it helped that Scotland fiscally ruined itself in it's ill fated try at imperialism in the Americas. That sorta left England to itself in Great Britain regarding global empire building.

Go to the bottom of the British History class. The British Empire really only got going after the Act of Union when suddenly lots of able (but impoverished) Scots took charge of the resources and used it to seek glory and riches throughout the world.

Act of God.

There's no insurance, no appeal, and if you happen to dislike the results:
'sux to be you'.

How did they get so powerful?

The full English Breakfast.
With that inside you, there's no stopping you for the rest of the day.
Except for a cup of tea of course.

How did they get so powerful?

The full English Breakfast.
With that inside you, there's no stopping you for the rest of the day.
Except for a cup of tea of course.


Good point!

Hurrah for Blightey!

How did they get so powerful?

The full English Breakfast.
With that inside you, there's no stopping you for the rest of the day.
Except for a cup of tea of course.

ep thats right, the good old English brekkie gets in sausages, eggs, bacon, tomatoes, beans, mushrooms, fried bread, black pudding (not to fond of that myself but still...), whereas the continental breakfast is a croissant, thats right, just a croissant

The most advanced and pioneering maritime fleet of it's time, free trade, and realising losing some colonies was better than keeping them.

Oh, and the first corporation.

ep thats right, the good old English brekkie gets in sausages, eggs, bacon, tomatoes, beans, mushrooms, fried bread, black pudding (not to fond of that myself but still...), whereas the continental breakfast is a croissant, thats right, just a croissant

mmmmmmm The Gut Buster

Starter -

Fried Kipper

Main -

fried bread
fried tomatos
chips
fried egg
baked beans
fried mushies
sausages
bacon
fried leeks/onion/garlic/strips of bell pepper

side plate of -
creamy scambled egg on buttered toast

buttered toast - lots of buttered toast

Washed down with either a pint of tea or a jar of Guiness

Desert - the pub

mmmmmmm The Gut Buster

Starter -

Fried Kipper

Main -

fried bread
fried tomatos
chips
fried egg
baked beans
fried mushies
sausages
bacon
fried leeks/onion/garlic/strips of bell pepper
you forgot the tomatoes, tut tut

side plate of -
creamy scambled egg on buttered toast

buttered toast - lots of buttered toast

Washed down with either a pint of tea or a jar of Guiness

Desert - the pub

*drools*

*drools*

btw...fried tomatos is there...the only good tomato is a fried one! :)

Its a great of dealing with a hangover as well! LOL

btw...fried tomatos is there...the only good tomato is a fried one! :)

Its a great of dealing with a hangover as well! LOL

yea, i ment fried tomatoes

yea, i ment fried tomatoes

Is cool...

This is another thing that allowed Empire...A sense of fair play and crigget!

I mean, we've all heard how the UK has been the world's largest empire--large enough that part of it was always in the sun-- and all that other stuff, but how? I mean it is just a tiny little island, which could project power across the world. How did it get itself in that position?

Whatever we had, we've been losing it for quite a while now.

Don't worry .
*pets*
We'll never forget you. :D

:p

mmmmmmm The Gut Buster

Starter -

Fried Kipper

Main -

fried bread
fried tomatos
chips
fried egg
baked beans
fried mushies
sausages
bacon
fried leeks/onion/garlic/strips of bell pepper

side plate of -
creamy scambled egg on buttered toast

buttered toast - lots of buttered toast

Washed down with either a pint of tea or a jar of Guiness

Desert - the pub

I'd skip the scrambled eggs, and put the 'toast and marmalade' back on... it's like the 'dessert' course of a good English breakfast.

Also - where's the black pudding?

I'd skip the scrambled eggs, and put the 'toast and marmalade' back on... it's like the 'dessert' course of a good English breakfast.

Also - where's the black pudding?

black pudding? crazy northerners...

Is cool...

This is another thing that allowed Empire...A sense of fair play and crigget!

"Thats just not cricket"

yes cricket, get the colonials to throw balls at each other and hit them with chunks of conveiniently exported english willoiw, thus enhancing our world trade position while taking out the agression in the natives

I'd skip the scrambled eggs, and put the 'toast and marmalade' back on... it's like the 'dessert' course of a good English breakfast.

Also - where's the black pudding?

ummm....although a Leeds-ite....I do not like black pudding...LOL

I'd be looking at some marmite with some of the toast perhaps...

toast....yes I think this is another thing that helped us as well...very important toast is!

black pudding? crazy northerners...

Northerners? Only if you are French....

I am a Londoner by birth, and 'Down our way' (East End), black pudding (fried, obviously) was considered a staple of the proper English Breakfast.

Of course - I'd give it all away for a decent pie'n'mash.

Northerners? Only if you are French....

I am a Londoner by birth, and 'Down our way' (East End), black pudding (fried, obviously) was considered a staple of the proper English Breakfast.

Of course - I'd give it all away for a decent pie'n'mash.

You lot eat jellied eels....actually really nice :)

but also the East End is the home of fission chips n all! Of course it took Yorkshiremen to perfect the dish :p

Northerners? Only if you are French....

I am a Londoner by birth, and 'Down our way' (East End), black pudding (fried, obviously) was considered a staple of the proper English Breakfast.

Of course - I'd give it all away for a decent pie'n'mash.

Mmm, I love fried black pudding.

MMm fish and chips espically if the fish has been freshly landed on Grimsby Dock

Privateering!

Coz we're ard! Ohh ohh yeah and we speak proper English!

Mmm, I love fried black pudding.

What I have found to be great in Glasgow is that they deep fat fry the black pudding with batter and have it with chips rather than fish and chips, sooo good.

Deep battered haggis is also good, it seems that they like deep frying everything in Glasgow, Mars bars, pizza etc

What I have found to be great in Glasgow is that they deep fat fry the black pudding with batter and have it with chips rather than fish and chips, sooo good.

Deep battered haggis is also good, it seems that they like deep frying everything in Glasgow, Mars bars, pizza etc

deap fried mars bars are legendarily good

deap fried mars bars are legendarily good
mmm I love deep fried marz bars!!!
thats how we became so powerful!!

How did the UK get so Powerful?

Hot sexy women and men who liked to get spanked and eat spotted dick and roly-poly pudding, that is the secret.
yum Spotted dick...

Didn't they only get tea after they were a superpower? :p

:fluffle:
Why must you oppose me at every turn? :mad:
No, they got tea before they became a Super Power.
Before they were a mere Regional Power with maritime influence. -_-.

Go to the bottom of the British History class. The British Empire really only got going after the Act of Union when suddenly lots of able (but impoverished) Scots took charge of the resources and used it to seek glory and riches throughout the world.

Why were they impoverished? Would they have been so quick to align with those South of Hadrians wall if they were not impoverished? I think they would not have.

You lot eat jellied eels....actually really nice :)

but also the East End is the home of fission chips n all! Of course it took Yorkshiremen to perfect the dish :p

Best chish and fips is in Scotland.

NOWAI!!!
Actually yes. :)

I seriously think the UK civilized the world.

I seriously think the UK civilized the world.

All is not lost lads!
\

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/vonbek/rourke.gif

Course, you can't forget the french. In a fair few places, we turned up where the french had already got to, and kicked them out. The empire was just an excuse to kick more french ass! :p

Although, seriously, it was mainly due to a great navy and advanced technology, at least to start. The army wasn't bad, although there were some complete and utter fuck-ups in its time. The boer war comes to mind. Most of the acheivments of the army were from sheer bloodymindedness, and from the footsloggers being more scared of the seargent major than the enemy ;)