NationStates Jolt Archive

Since nobody ever seemed to ask you questions pertaining to the hot button topics and related matters...

What are your opinions on terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda?

How do you feel when there are people on General who gleefully proclaim to the effect that once you and every other practicing Muslim are all wiped out, there will be world peace and the United Federation of Planets will be formed?

Do you feel ignore these statements, or do you feel that it only ends up proving Bin Ladin and Ahmedinejad right when they keep claiming the West hates Muslims?

Do you find yourself having to put more effort into daily living than others around you just because people automatically assume you're a terrorist?

Opinions and thoughts are welcome.

Since nobody ever seemed to ask you questions pertaining to the hot button topics and related matters...

What are your opinions on terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda?

How do you feel when there are people on General who gleefully proclaim to the effect that once you and every other practicing Muslim are all wiped out, there will be world peace and the United Federation of Planets will be formed?

Do you feel ignore these statements, or do you feel that it only ends up proving Bin Ladin and Ahmedinejad right when they keep claiming the West hates Muslims?

Do you find yourself having to put more effort into daily living than others around you just because people automatically assume you're a terrorist?

Opinions and thoughts are welcome.

It seems to me that most of the people on NS, and hopefully in Western society in all, don't hold this sort of sentiment and condemn those who do. At least I hope that people like Deep Kimchi are in the small minority.

As for the living in the West, I have it easy. If you were to meet me you would never guess that I'm a Muslim, probably becuase I'm only half-Arab. Someone else can address this issue better than I can.

edit: forgot to add that I loathe groups like al-Qaeda absolutely. I know exactly how they twist and pervert the Quran to justify their murder, and it makes me sick. They're simply killers.

Since nobody ever seemed to ask you questions pertaining to the hot button topics and related matters...

Meh ... do a forum search. Massive threads where Islam is debated ad nauseum.

I'm a former Muslim and I say....hoggle spork monkey vat

I'm a former Muslim and I say....hoggle spork monkey vat

Awww ... I was gonna say that! *shakes fist*

hoggle spork monkey vat

What the hell - that's good, too.

Awww ... I was gonna say that! *shakes fist*
THIS JUST IN: BEING MUSLIM MAKES YOU SPEAK GIBBERISH

DK'll have a field day with this.

THIS JUST IN: BEING MUSLIM MAKES YOU SPEAK GIBBERISH

DK'll have a field day with this.
Gigloggle asseutij nip

Awww ... I was gonna say that! *shakes fist*
I'm disappointed. Anyone who can play Dixie with a set of sporks while stoned can think of something better...

This is off topic, but my God, Gauthier, that quote in your sig is terrifying.

Ran this by a Shia friend of mine who is getting his nation restored...here's his answers. He answered a lot more, obviously. These are the best bits.

What are your opinions on terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda?

FRIEND: That they are twisting our religion into a morass of lies and deceit. Killing innocents goes against the core principles of Islams - no matter what religion they are.

How do you feel when there are people on General who gleefully proclaim to the effect that once you and every other practicing Muslim are all wiped out, there will be world peace and the United Federation of Planets will be formed?

FRIEND: I'm not on NSG much, after getting really offended by what's here, but I don't think it really matters. They are just ignorant. It's not their fault that they know so little about us. If only they did, they would change their opinions.

Do you feel ignore these statements, or do you feel that it only ends up proving Bin Ladin and Ahmedinejad right when they keep claiming the West hates Muslims?

FRIEND: Not sure exactly what you're asking, but in my opinion not the entire West hates Muslims. They have only one view of them - as terrorists. If they looked at the bloody pictures of people dying in the streets of Iraq, people whom the US was supposed to be protecting, how would they feel? It is enough to make even a moderate Muslim like me very, very angry.

Do you find yourself having to put more effort into daily living than others around you just because people automatically assume you're a terrorist?

FRIEND: Yes.
ME (of Indian descent): Yes.

Food for thought.

I always wonder why mulsium haven't denounce any terrorist attack by their own people in massive numbers.

I always wonder why mulsium haven't denounce any terrorist attack by their own people in massive numbers.
I thought they did.

I always wonder why mulsium haven't denounce any terrorist attack by their own people in massive numbers.
They usually do, but the media don't seem to want to report that.

They usually do, but the media don't seem to want to report that.
They do occasionally, in little 5 second snippets that most people miss. Only occasionally though, and only coinciding with some major event.

I thought they did.
Compare the number who demonstrated against the 9-11 attacks (zero) and the ostensible hijacking of their religion, vs. the number who demonstrated against the cartoons.

No comparison at all...

I always wonder why mulsium haven't denounce any terrorist attack by their own people in massive numbers.

they always have havn't they?

I always wonder why mulsium haven't denounce any terrorist attack by their own people in massive numbers.

It's not that Muslims aren't loud enough in their denunciations, it's that most people don't listen hard enough, or, more likely, don't listen at all.

Compare the number who demonstrated against the 9-11 attacks (zero) and the ostensible hijacking of their religion, vs. the number who demonstrated against the cartoons.

No comparison at all...

Got a source for that?

No offense, but I think you're just being a bigot. How many Muslims have you actually met?

Compare the number who demonstrated against the 9-11 attacks (zero) and the ostensible hijacking of their religion, vs. the number who demonstrated against the cartoons.

No comparison at all...

you try protesting in attacks on America in lets say Iran (and if there were protest against 9/11 they most likely did so with every other group of people protesting 9/11)

Got a source for that?

No offense, but I think you're just being a bigot. How many Muslims have you actually met?

I'm not the one who claimed they expressed opposition to terrorism.

Go ahead. Show me a news link to a demonstration by several million Muslims denouncing the 9-11 attacks.

Something on the same worldwide scale as the cartoon demonstrations.

I'm not the one who claimed they expressed opposition to terrorism.

Go ahead. Show me a news link to a demonstration by several million Muslims denouncing the 9-11 attacks.

Something on the same worldwide scale as the cartoon demonstrations.

That's not what I was implying. I was asking you to prove that were zero demonstrations by Muslims against 9/11.

That's not what I was implying. I was asking you to prove that were zero demonstrations by Muslims against 9/11.
You're not the only one in the thread.

Several claims that Muslims were outraged by the 9-11 attacks.

A few anecdotal objections to the attack do not count.

Show me the worldwide demonstrations. You know, like the ones in Gaza where they were celebrating.

That's not what I was implying. I was asking you to prove that were zero demonstrations by Muslims against 9/11.

I never claim that there wasn't. There was a few, far in between, but nothing really on a massive scale. The most I've seen is some mulsium organization or group issussing a press release against the attacks.

You're not the only one in the thread.

Several claims that Muslims were outraged by the 9-11 attacks.

A few anecdotal objections to the attack do not count.

Show me the worldwide demonstrations. You know, like the ones in Gaza where they were celebrating.

Well, in total fairness... http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

A significant % of muslims in the UK and in the Near/Middle East (don't know what it's like in the US) are so anti-america that they supported 9/11. But not all - do see the link - and in Britain, not even most. Demonstrations against the attack in the N/M East aren't really feasible, so I don't think that's a fair indicator.

EDIT: Elsewhere though, in W. Europe etc., you'd expect to see _some_, you're right - any takers? That said, it's mostly younger muslims that are anti-west/anti-america, and it's usually younger britons/europeans who go on marches/demonstrations, so that might be a factor to remember too.

It's worth pointing out that a lot of non-muslim Britons (thankfully, a low overall %, but quite large numbers) also supported the cause of the terrorists, but not the means. I dare say the same is true in other countries as well.

This is off topic, but my God, Gauthier, that quote in your sig is terrifying.

Not too off-topic considering it's the boldest example of how the West perceives Muslims as a whole, lumping them together with Islamist groups like Al-Qaeda.

And it's from the same DesignatedMarksman who started the "Jew Crew" you're a proud member of. Food for thought. That underlined bit is a link to his post where I got it from.

The Muslim apologists in this thread are missing an important part of what is being said about how significant parts of the west perceive them.

There are no absolutes, there will always be Muslims that condemn terrorist tactics, but the overall 'picture' must be taken into account.

Surely in the aftermath of 9/11, many peoples with no love for America might not haver been sympathetic to the plight of America that day, but to Western sensibilities, you hold your tongue and you smirk about it in private. It is in completely poor taste to rejoice in the loss of life, so much so that it appears evil to western eyes.

In the same vein, there are certainly Muslims that oppose suicide bombings, but yet, there are still representatives of Muslim movements or occasionally governments that praise these individuals as heroes of their struggle. Sometimes even the parents of the terrorist suicide bomber talk of how proud they are.
These sentiments are alien to western mindsets.

Western culture can commit atrocities too, but as much as there are attempts to justify them, they are not celebrated.

Moderate Muslims that oppose these things need to be not one of the Muslim voices, they need to become loud enough to be THE Muslim voice.

And it's from the same DesignatedMarksman who started the "Jew Crew" you're a proud member of. Food for thought. That underlined bit is a link to his post where I got it from.
He's not a member of the Jew Crew, that sig thingy is a parody of them.
And I'll point out that that's an ad hominem if for no other reason then to point it out.

every muslim i've met have been nice and freindly, except one.
andrew maxwell made a funny joke on tv about having fun with muslims. if i could a transcript i'll post it.
luckily irish people dont hate muslims like other nations seem to at the moment.

They usually do, but the media don't seem to want to report that.


fear sells papers/gets ratings and that is the purpose of news companies. their main goal is to make everyone think that the next attack is gonna be tomorrow.

And I'll point out that that's an ad hominem if for no other reason then to point it out.

hes not attacking his character hes quoting his own words.

Got a source for that?

No offense, but I think you're just being a bigot. How many Muslims have you actually met?

Ooooh, there's that "B-word" again!

Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!

Guaranteed to shut up anyone it's directed at!

Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!

The intrepid defenders of poor, persecuted, innocent Islam are ready to pounce!

Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!

Bigotry (noun): Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.

So obviously, because Islam is the "religion of peace," any criticism of Islam or Muslims must be "irrational suspicion", and anyone who makes such a criticism must be a

Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!

Doesn't matter how much you've studied the subject, doesn't matter that you've quoted chapter and verse from the Koran, Hadith, commentaries on Sharia, statements from Muslim leaders and authorities--if you're an opponent of Islam, you're clearly a

Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!

Doesn't matter how many Muslim terrorists commit atrocity after atrocity, doesn't matter how many times they murder defenseless women and children, doesn't matter how many times they hide behind defenseless women and children--if you call them out on that, well, you're a

Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!

Doesn't matter how many hundreds of thousands of Muslims constantly protest in favor of this or that terrorist organization, never mind how many of them say they're loyal to their precious "umma" rather than their nations of birth, forget about how many of them insist that their "religious" laws must be respected by everyone, because obviously the vast majority of Muslims don't think that way (you've got to take that statement on faith, since there's never any cited support for it), and if you don't believe that, you're nothing but a

Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!

Well, thanks for clearing that up. And by the way, I'm sure you're as quick to leap to the defense of, say, the Catholic Church when it comes under attack . . . er, no, I must have mistaken you for someone else.

Ooooh, there's that "B-word" again!

Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!

Guaranteed to shut up anyone it's directed at!

Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!

The intrepid defenders of poor, persecuted, innocent Islam are ready to pounce!

Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!

Bigotry (noun): Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.

So obviously, because Islam is the "religion of peace," any criticism of Islam or Muslims must be "irrational suspicion", and anyone who makes such a criticism must be a

Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!

Doesn't matter how much you've studied the subject, doesn't matter that you've quoted chapter and verse from the Koran, Hadith, commentaries on Sharia, statements from Muslim leaders and authorities--if you're an opponent of Islam, you're clearly a

Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!

Doesn't matter how many Muslim terrorists commit atrocity after atrocity, doesn't matter how many times they murder defenseless women and children, doesn't matter how many times they hide behind defenseless women and children--if you call them out on that, well, you're a

Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!

Doesn't matter how many hundreds of thousands of Muslims constantly protest in favor of this or that terrorist organization, never mind how many of them say they're loyal to their precious "umma" rather than their nations of birth, forget about how many of them insist that their "religious" laws must be respected by everyone, because obviously the vast majority of Muslims don't think that way (you've got to take that statement on faith, since there's never any cited support for it), and if you don't believe that, you're nothing but a

Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!

Well, thanks for clearing that up. And by the way, I'm sure you're as quick to leap to the defense of, say, the Catholic Church when it comes under attack . . . er, no, I must have mistaken you for someone else.

Dear Mitanni,

How's your and DK's final solution to the Muslim problem coming along? Very well, I'm sure. I just had a few questions regarding said solution that I hope you can clear up.

1) Will I have to buy a ticket in advance for the train that will relocate me to a "reeducation center" in an undisclosed part of the country?

2) More importantly - how will you be able to sort out Muslims from non-Muslims? As you know, not all Muslims are Middle Eastern-looking, and some of them could lie about their religion. Or maybe you will go by ethnicity and pick up all people from the Muslim-majority parts of the Middle East and SE Asia? In that case, will I be let off the hook, seeing as how I'm only a half-breed? Or will I have to pack it in with the rest?

Please respond - I'd like to be prepared with my luggage packed when the police/army come for me. After all, if I get caught unawares I might not get a chance to pack, and then when I arrive at the death camp I would have to borrow someone's toothbrush. That would just be embarrassing.

Ooooh, there's that "B-word" again!

Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!

Guaranteed to shut up anyone it's directed at!

Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!

The intrepid defenders of poor, persecuted, innocent Islam are ready to pounce!

Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!

Bigotry (noun): Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.

So obviously, because Islam is the "religion of peace," any criticism of Islam or Muslims must be "irrational suspicion", and anyone who makes such a criticism must be a

Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!

Doesn't matter how much you've studied the subject, doesn't matter that you've quoted chapter and verse from the Koran, Hadith, commentaries on Sharia, statements from Muslim leaders and authorities--if you're an opponent of Islam, you're clearly a

Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!

Doesn't matter how many Muslim terrorists commit atrocity after atrocity, doesn't matter how many times they murder defenseless women and children, doesn't matter how many times they hide behind defenseless women and children--if you call them out on that, well, you're a

Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!

Doesn't matter how many hundreds of thousands of Muslims constantly protest in favor of this or that terrorist organization, never mind how many of them say they're loyal to their precious "umma" rather than their nations of birth, forget about how many of them insist that their "religious" laws must be respected by everyone, because obviously the vast majority of Muslims don't think that way (you've got to take that statement on faith, since there's never any cited support for it), and if you don't believe that, you're nothing but a

Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!

Well, thanks for clearing that up. And by the way, I'm sure you're as quick to leap to the defense of, say, the Catholic Church when it comes under attack . . . er, no, I must have mistaken you for someone else.


knee-jerk, much?

It seems to me that most of the people on NS, and hopefully in Western society in all, don't hold this sort of sentiment and condemn those who do. At least I hope that people like Deep Kimchi are in the small minority.

As for the living in the West, I have it easy. If you were to meet me you would never guess that I'm a Muslim, probably becuase I'm only half-Arab. Someone else can address this issue better than I can.

edit: forgot to add that I loathe groups like al-Qaeda absolutely. I know exactly how they twist and pervert the Quran to justify their murder, and it makes me sick. They're simply killers.

I like you.

Let's go shoot a hog and roast it up, cover it in BBq, and have a good time. Sounds like we could get along.

Typically, most threads containing the words, "Muslim" or "Christian" go from 0 to retarted in about 2 pages.

Typically, most threads containing the words, "Muslim" or "Christian" go from 0 to retarted in about 2 pages.

Isn't NSG wonderful?

I like you.

Let's go shoot a hog and roast it up, cover it in BBq, and have a good time. Sounds like we could get along.

I'll bring the vodka!

I like you.

Let's go shoot a hog and roast it up, cover it in BBq, and have a good time. Sounds like we could get along.

Pig is nasty unless its bacon.

Beef ribs are MUCH better.:)

I'll bring the vodka!
HypnotiQ is better!;)

Not too off-topic considering it's the boldest example of how the West perceives Muslims as a whole, lumping them together with Islamist groups like Al-Qaeda.

And it's from the same DesignatedMarksman who started the "Jew Crew" you're a proud member of. Food for thought. That underlined bit is a link to his post where I got it from.

Why can't I view signatures?

Hmm.

Pig is nasty unless its bacon.

Beef ribs are MUCH better.:)

Oh you infidel, don't speak blasphemy against the pig lest I...umm...show you the magical delicousness which is my invisible hamburger!

I dont see too much anti-muslim flaming in NS General. I'll admit though i have dished it out before. But i think that we do need to realize that al qaeda and hezbollah and islamic jihad are a minority extremist group. The only problem i have with the muslim world is that it seems like too many of them support the extreme anti-west anti-american rhetoric spoken by people like bin laden and mahmoud ahmadinejad.





(yes...i know of the irony, you dont need to point it out)

I like you.

Let's go shoot a hog and roast it up, cover it in BBq, and have a good time. Sounds like we could get along.

You realise that you are inviting a muslim to eat PIG ?

Dear Mitanni,

How's your and DK's final solution to the Muslim problem coming along? Very well, I'm sure. I just had a few questions regarding said solution that I hope you can clear up.

1) Will I have to buy a ticket in advance for the train that will relocate me to a "reeducation center" in an undisclosed part of the country?

2) More importantly - how will you be able to sort out Muslims from non-Muslims? As you know, not all Muslims are Middle Eastern-looking, and some of them could lie about their religion. Or maybe you will go by ethnicity and pick up all people from the Muslim-majority parts of the Middle East and SE Asia? In that case, will I be let off the hook, seeing as how I'm only a half-breed? Or will I have to pack it in with the rest?

Please respond - I'd like to be prepared with my luggage packed when the police/army come for me. After all, if I get caught unawares I might not get a chance to pack, and then when I arrive at the death camp I would have to borrow someone's toothbrush. That would just be embarrassing.


No offense, but there is a very large group of muslims and the like who i would pay money to see burn in an oven.


bin laden and his cronies
hassan nasrallah and his cronies
hamas
islamic jihad
...there are more i just cant type that much.

No offense, but there is a very large group of muslims and the like who i would pay money to see burn in an oven.


bin laden and his cronies
hassan nasrallah and his cronies
hamas
islamic jihad
...there are more i just cant type that much.

You'll have no argument from me regarding such terrorists and murderers. However, I'd rather not have a massive genocidal killing if it can possibly be avoided.

Meh ... do a forum search. Massive threads where Islam is debated ad nauseum.
almost the same amount about Christianity.

Honestly, I don't hold all Muslims in the same boats as some of those extremists and crazies out there.

Gigloggle asseutij nip
:eek:
everyone's speaking in Tongues! quick, we musqwa qoia oierbsy asn wois!

You'll have no argument from me regarding such terrorists and murderers. However, I'd rather not have a massive genocidal killing if it can possibly be avoided.


Exactly.

You'll have no argument from me regarding such terrorists and murderers. However, I'd rather not have a massive genocidal killing if it can possibly be avoided.

Massive genocidal killings which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy as it convinces some Muslims that the terrorists were right about the West all along and to join their cause is a genuine struggle for Muslim survival as a whole.

Dear Mitanni,

How's your and DK's final solution to the Muslim problem coming along? Very well, I'm sure. I just had a few questions regarding said solution that I hope you can clear up.

Ooooh, gee, the "B-word" and the "N-word" (by implication) in the same thread! Boy do I feel bad now :rolleyes:

But since you ask, get ready:

1) Will I have to buy a ticket in advance for the train that will relocate me to a "reeducation center" in an undisclosed part of the country?

No, one-way plane fare to some suitable part of Dar al-Islam should do just fine, as long as you leave Dar al-Harb to us non-infidels.

2) More importantly - how will you be able to sort out Muslims from non-Muslims? As you know, not all Muslims are Middle Eastern-looking, and some of them could lie about their religion.

Collect intelligence first, then start raiding. Begin with known "spiritual leaders" and the leadership of CAIR, starting with co-founder Omar Ahmad, who's on record as declaring that "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran . . . should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." Pardon me for taking it seriously when Muslim leaders state that they intend to turn my country into a Third-World hellhole like the one they emerged from. Oh, wait a minute, I forgot--that must have been taken "out of context," and "the vast majority of Muslims don't believe that."

As for lying about their religion, well, I'm sure that's going on right now--it's called taqiyya, in case you haven't heard about it (or are practicing it right now), and it covers things like trying to convince non-infidels that "Islam is a religion of peace."

Or maybe you will go by ethnicity and pick up all people from the Muslim-majority parts of the Middle East and SE Asia? In that case, will I be let off the hook, seeing as how I'm only a half-breed? Or will I have to pack it in with the rest?

Point of origin is definitely a reasonable place to start investigating. Not ethnicity per se--there are Lebanese Maronites and Egyptian Copts, for example, who deserve protection. As for "half-breeds", the half they choose to identify with is the half that is determinative.

Please respond - I'd like to be prepared with my luggage packed when the police/army come for me. After all, if I get caught unawares I might not get a chance to pack, and then when I arrive at the death camp I would have to borrow someone's toothbrush. That would just be embarrassing.

You needn't worry about "death camps." Nobody is calling for such. That would make us as bad as the Iranian ayatollahs' favorite butt-monkey Ahmadinejad, who lusts to follow in Hitler's footsteps and bring about the extermination of the Jews. What is needed is the final defeat of Islam, not the deaths of its unfortunate believers. They should be given every opportunity to adopt some other creed (or none at all, for that matter), or, barring that, to be quarantined from the rest of civilization (ideally after we develop hydrogen power or some other replacement for oil, so that their main source of terrorist funding dries up once and for all).

I trust that has satisfied your curiosity, and I leave you with this quotation from your own scriptures. It's one of my personal favorites, and since it's part of the final, immutable revelation from God Himself, I have no doubt you have, shall we say, submitted yourself to it and have implemented it in your own life:

"Believers! take not the Jews or Christians as friends. They are but one another's friends. If any one of you taketh them for his friends, he surely is one of them! God will not guide the evil doers." (Sura 5:56)

_________

JC #24

I always wonder why mulsium haven't denounce any terrorist attack by their own people in massive numbers.
You're a white male, correct?

Why haven't you publicly, and consistantly, denounced every serial killer and rapist? The majority are white males, yet I have never heard you stand up in an extremely public forum and state that you are against these actions every time one happens.

Religion is an infantessimally small part of who someone is and what they identify themselves as. Does one person denouncing another person make any difference except to placate the general public?

Ooooh, gee, the "B-word" and the "N-word" (by implication) in the same thread! Boy do I feel bad now :rolleyes:

But since you ask, get ready:



No, one-way plane fare to some suitable part of Dar al-Islam should do just fine, as long as you leave Dar al-Harb to us non-infidels.



Collect intelligence first, then start raiding. Begin with known "spiritual leaders" and the leadership of CAIR, starting with co-founder Omar Ahmad, who's on record as declaring that "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran . . . should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." Pardon me for taking it seriously when Muslim leaders state that they intend to turn my country into a Third-World hellhole like the one they emerged from. Oh, wait a minute, I forgot--that must have been taken "out of context," and "the vast majority of Muslims don't believe that."

As for lying about their religion, well, I'm sure that's going on right now--it's called taqiyya, in case you haven't heard about it (or are practicing it right now), and it covers things like trying to convince non-infidels that "Islam is a religion of peace."



Point of origin is definitely a reasonable place to start investigating. Not ethnicity per se--there are Lebanese Maronites and Egyptian Copts, for example, who deserve protection. As for "half-breeds", the half they choose to identify with is the half that is determinative.



You needn't worry about "death camps." Nobody is calling for such. That would make us as bad as the Iranian ayatollahs' favorite butt-monkey Ahmadinejad, who lusts to follow in Hitler's footsteps and bring about the extermination of the Jews. What is needed is the final defeat of Islam, not the deaths of its unfortunate believers. They should be given every opportunity to adopt some other creed (or none at all, for that matter), or, barring that, to be quarantined from the rest of civilization (ideally after we develop hydrogen power or some other replacement for oil, so that their main source of terrorist funding dries up once and for all).

I trust that has satisfied your curiosity, and I leave you with this quotation from your own scriptures. It's one of my personal favorites, and since it's part of the final, immutable revelation from God Himself, I have no doubt you have, shall we say, submitted yourself to it and have implemented it in your own life:

"Believers! take not the Jews or Christians as friends. They are but one another's friends. If any one of you taketh them for his friends, he surely is one of them! God will not guide the evil doers." (Sura 5:56)

_________

JC #24

Meir Kahane would kiss you if he was still alive today.

You're a white male, correct?

Why haven't you publicly, and consistantly, denounced every serial killer and rapist? The majority are white males, yet I have never heard you stand up in an extremely public forum and state that you are against these actions every time one happens.

The next time an organization of serial killers proclaims that it's acting in the name of "white males" will be the first.

The next time Muslim terrorists declare "Allahu Akbar!" will be, oh, the ten millionth.

Get it now?

Collect intelligence first, then start raiding. Begin with known "spiritual leaders" and the leadership of CAIR, starting with co-founder Omar Ahmad, who's on record as declaring that "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran . . . should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." Pardon me for taking it seriously when Muslim leaders state that they intend to turn my country into a Third-World hellhole like the one they emerged from. Oh, wait a minute, I forgot--that must have been taken "out of context," and "the vast majority of Muslims don't believe that."
_________

JC #24


Source please

Meir Kahane would kiss you if he was still alive today.

The count is up to 2808 and still not an intelligent statement in the lot. Still entertaining, though.

As for lying about their religion, well, I'm sure that's going on right now--it's called taqiyya, in case you haven't heard about it (or are practicing it right now), and it covers things like trying to convince non-infidels that "Islam is a religion of peace."

_________

JC #24

again, please source

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=Taquiyya

Source please

Among others:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/888598/posts

_____

JC #24

Among others:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/888598/posts

_____

JC #24

A neocon blog.....genius

again, please source

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=Taquiyya

Wikipedia is a less-than-reliable source.

http://jihadwatch.org/archives/004628.php

Mitanni! I honestly didn't think you would respond, but I'm glad that you did. I'll address a few of your points, if you don't mind.


No, one-way plane fare to some suitable part of Dar al-Islam should do just fine, as long as you leave Dar al-Harb to us non-infidels.


You're making the assumption that I consider you an unclean bastard unworthy of living. Your assumption is wrong. Also, I was born and raised in the United States (California, if you must know) and I'd honestly rather not leave.


Collect intelligence first, then start raiding. Begin with known "spiritual leaders" and the leadership of CAIR, starting with co-founder Omar Ahmad, who's on record as declaring that "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran . . . should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." Pardon me for taking it seriously when Muslim leaders state that they intend to turn my country into a Third-World hellhole like the one they emerged from. Oh, wait a minute, I forgot--that must have been taken "out of context," and "the vast majority of Muslims don't believe that."


No, most Muslims don't believe that. Just because you repeat it over and over in this forum doesn't make it true. By the way, I'm very much against the implementation of Islamic government, or any form of religious government, anywhere in the world. I much prefer the secular system we have in the West. But I guess because my father emerged from "a third-world hellhole" my opinion doesn't matter.


As for "half-breeds", the half they choose to identify with is the half that is determinative.


Okay! I'll just disown one half of my entire family. That's easy.


You needn't worry about "death camps." Nobody is calling for such. That would make us as bad as the Iranian ayatollahs' favorite butt-monkey Ahmadinejad, who lusts to follow in Hitler's footsteps and bring about the extermination of the Jews. What is needed is the final defeat of Islam, not the deaths of its unfortunate believers. They should be given every opportunity to adopt some other creed (or none at all, for that matter), or, barring that, to be quarantined from the rest of civilization (ideally after we develop hydrogen power or some other replacement for oil, so that their main source of terrorist funding dries up once and for all).


While I appreciate your reassurance about there being no death camps, the alternative picture you paint isn't very attractive. Where have I heard forced conversion proposed before? The Spanish Inquisition? And yes, I know that Muslims have in history forced others to convert as well. They were wrong to do so.

I'm also not too excited about spending a lifetime in Siberia or whatever godforsaken land you're thinking of. Why should I live in exile because a relatively small group (YES, a relatively small group) of asshole Muslim extremists killed a bunch of innocents? You haven't convinced me.


I trust that has satisfied your curiosity, and I leave you with this quotation from your own scriptures. It's one of my personal favorites, and since it's part of the final, immutable revelation from God Himself, I have no doubt you have, shall we say, submitted yourself to it and have implemented it in your own life:

"Believers! take not the Jews or Christians as friends. They are but one another's friends. If any one of you taketh them for his friends, he surely is one of them! God will not guide the evil doers." (Sura 5:56)


Your assumption about my beliefs are again false. I can't say I don't take issue with certain passages in the Quran. However, some of them really do have to be taken in a historical context - seventh century Arabia consisted of pagan, Christian and Jewish Arab tribes, and it is possible that these "warnings" were only meant for that specific time period, as the Muslims were then a minority in the peninsula. I trust Christians and Jews; almost every one of my friends is Christian, Jewish or without religion. I hardly know any other Muslims, actually.

Once again, thanks for responding. I thought you would assume I was being facetious.

A neocon blog.....genius

A "neocon blog" that references a published report in a newspaper of general circulation.

Or is the problem actually that you've come up against a fact that devastates your position and you can't deny it?

Wikipedia is a less-than-reliable source.

http://jihadwatch.org/archives/004628.php

more fear mongering, right-wing BS, this explains a lot.

heres a few of my un-biased sources:

www.ropma.net
www.neonazisforjustice.com
www.supremecy-is-the-whitemans-burden.net/sandniggers

A "neocon blog" that references a published report in a newspaper of general circulation.

Or is the problem actually that you've come up against a fact that devastates your position and you can't deny it?

oh wow a newspaper, Standard repository of all knowledge in the western world!

so i guess Jon Ramsey really did kill his daughter hm?:rolleyes:

Oh a newspaper said it, so it MUST be right well you got me Mitanni

The count is up to 2808 and still not an intelligent statement in the lot. Still entertaining, though.

Other people don't have a problem grasping my commentaries.

And funny you should make remarks about the intelligence of my posts after this little gem of yours:

The next time an organization of serial killers proclaims that it's acting in the name of "white males" will be the first.

The next time Muslim terrorists declare "Allahu Akbar!" will be, oh, the ten millionth.

Get it now?

And really, Meir Kahane would not only kiss you, he'd make sweet sweet love to you. You really are that much of a Muslim-hating Kahanist.

A "neocon blog" that references a published report in a newspaper of general circulation.

Or is the problem actually that you've come up against a fact that devastates your position and you can't deny it?

take one second to skim through the "religion" section of this "free" republic website: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/browse

nope no bias there just some honest-to-goodness Islam/judaism bashing, christianity pimping pieces written by some overpaid O'reilly acolytes who have never met any muslims(or anyone else with brown skin) in their lives.

unplug your brain from the GOP propaganda engine

Your assumption about my beliefs are again false. I can't say I don't take issue with certain passages in the Quran. However, some of them really do have to be taken in a historical context - seventh century Arabia consisted of pagan, Christian and Jewish Arab tribes, and it is possible that these "warnings" were only meant for that specific time period, as the Muslims were then a minority in the peninsula. I trust Christians and Jews; almost every one of my friends is Christian, Jewish or without religion. I hardly know any other Muslims, actually.

There are two problems with your position:

1) The statements of Muslims who reside in the US, Western Europe or any other society in which they are presently a small minority lack credibility, again in view of Islam's specific approval of lying about its true doctrines in order to deceive unbelievers. Wherever Muslims achieve a certain "critical mass", as in France, the Netherlands, etc., the mask begins to fall away, and when they become a majority, the oppressive, intolerant nature of Islam manifests itself fully.

2) Even if such statements are sincere, they are irrelevant. What is determinative is the beliefs of the religious establishments and educational institutions in Muslim-controlled nations, which are the miasmal swamps from which the pestilence of Muslim terrorism springs. These beliefs are fully consistent with the most negative views of Islam expressed on this board and elsewhere.

When the "vast majority of Muslims" in Muslim-controlled nations, including Al-Azhar University, the Wahhabist establishment in Saudi Arabia, madrassas in Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Sudan, Nigeria and elsewhere, and every ayatollah in Iran, publicly repudiate and denounce every Koranic injunction, hadith and Sharia provision that teaches intolerance and hatred for Jews, Christians and other "infidels," aggressive war against Dar al-Harb, inequality for women, the death penalty(!) for "apostasy," the concept of "jihad" in its entirety, and other outrages against universal human rights--in other words, when Islam has a "Protestant Reformation"--then Islam may have earned the right to be considered something other than the implacable enemy of civilization.

Unfortunately, since Islam has declared itself to be the "final immutable revelation from God", and since Sharia expressly prohibits things like "denying any verse of the Koran," no such reformation is possible. Islam is essentially unreformable.

Once again, thanks for responding. I thought you would assume I was being facetious.

I take all questions seriously, unless they're from posters like Gauthier. Maybe you will comprehend the depth of hostility that Islam has provoked here and elsewhere, and the reasons for it. Every innocent victim of Islamic terrorism creates ten more enemies of Islam. Think about it.

_____

JC #24

There are two problems with your position:

1) The statements of Muslims who reside in the US, Western Europe or any other society in which they are presently a small minority lack credibility, again in view of Islam's specific approval of lying about its true doctrines in order to deceive unbelievers. Wherever Muslims achieve a certain "critical mass", as in France, the Netherlands, etc., the mask begins to fall away, and when they become a majority, the oppressive, intolerant nature of Islam manifests itself fully.

2) Even if such statements are sincere, they are irrelevant. What is determinative is the beliefs of the religious establishments and educational institutions in Muslim-controlled nations, which are the miasmal swamps from which the pestilence of Muslim terrorism springs. These beliefs are fully consistent with the most negative views of Islam expressed on this board and elsewhere.

When the "vast majority of Muslims" in Muslim-controlled nations, including Al-Azhar University, the Wahhabist establishment in Saudi Arabia, madrassas in Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Sudan, Nigeria and elsewhere, and every ayatollah in Iran, publicly repudiate and denounce every Koranic injunction, hadith and Sharia provision that teaches intolerance and hatred for Jews, Christians and other "infidels," aggressive war against Dar al-Harb, inequality for women, the death penalty(!) for "apostasy," the concept of "jihad" in its entirety, and other outrages against universal human rights--in other words, when Islam has a "Protestant Reformation"--then Islam may have earned the right to be considered something other than the implacable enemy of civilization.

Unfortunately, since Islam has declared itself to be the "final immutable revelation from God", and since Sharia expressly prohibits things like "denying any verse of the Koran," no such reformation is possible. Islam is essentially unreformable.





_____

JC #24

you still have yet to give a credible UNBIASED
source

There are two problems with your position:

1) The statements of Muslims who reside in the US, Western Europe or any other society in which they are presently a small minority lack credibility, again in view of Islam's specific approval of lying about its true doctrines in order to deceive unbelievers. Wherever Muslims achieve a certain "critical mass", as in France, the Netherlands, etc., the mask begins to fall away, and when they become a majority, the oppressive, intolerant nature of Islam manifests itself fully.


When any one group dominates in society, it tends to oppress the others. This is perfectly true. For my part, I would like to think that if I lived in a majority-Muslim country, I would fight for the equal rights of Christians, Jews and apostates. But I was raised in a liberal and tolerant background anyway, thanks to my parents.

In any case, I certainly hope that I wouldn't advocate the forcible conversion of Christians and Jews on pain of exile. As you have clearly advocated with regard to Muslims in the West, I might add. I can't believe that you don't realize your own hypocrisy.


2) Even if such statements are sincere, they are irrelevant. What is determinative is the beliefs of the religious establishments and educational institutions in Muslim-controlled nations, which are the miasmal swamps from which the pestilence of Muslim terrorism springs. These beliefs are fully consistent with the most negative views of Islam expressed on this board and elsewhere.


Okay. So you would punish me, then, for trends in the Middle East (which you seem to be ill-informed about), even though my statement is sincere. Once again, I don't see how this is fair.


When the "vast majority of Muslims" in Muslim-controlled nations, including Al-Azhar University, the Wahhabist establishment in Saudi Arabia, madrassas in Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Sudan, Nigeria and elsewhere, and every ayatollah in Iran, publicly repudiate and denounce every Koranic injunction, hadith and Sharia provision that teaches intolerance and hatred for Jews, Christians and other "infidels," aggressive war against Dar al-Harb, inequality for women, the death penalty(!) for "apostasy," the concept of "jihad" in its entirety, and other outrages against universal human rights--in other words, when Islam has a "Protestant Reformation"--then Islam may have earned the right to be considered something other than the implacable enemy of civilization.


I am waiting for just this kind of reformation - although more Muslims fight against extremism than you think. See my post further back on Mutazilism; that sort of thinking will make a major resurgence at some point, I'm sure of it. In the meantime, I'm not sure that mass exile of Muslim populations in the West would be quite fair.


Unfortunately, since Islam has declared itself to be the "final immutable revelation from God", and since Sharia expressly prohibits things like "denying any verse of the Koran," no such reformation is possible. Islam is essentially unreformable.


I'll say it again and again - it's all about the interpretation. Just as America is suffering from the voting power of conservative Christians who read the Bible literally, the Middle East is suffering from conservative Muslims who read the Quran literally.


I take all questions seriously, unless they're from posters like Gauthier. Maybe you will comprehend the depth of hostility that Islam has provoked here and elsewhere, and the reasons for it. Every innocent victim of Islamic terrorism creates ten more enemies of Islam. Think about it.


I appreciate your seriousness, but at this point I really don't think we can argue meaningfully.

Oh you infidel, don't speak blasphemy against the pig lest I...umm...show you the magical delicousness which is my invisible hamburger!
Hamburgers are beef...you're proving my point.:p

In any case, I certainly hope that I wouldn't advocate the forcible conversion of Christians and Jews on pain of exile. As you have clearly advocated with regard to Muslims in the West, I might add. I can't believe that you don't realize your own hypocrisy.

Not hypocrisy at all. It's fighting fire with fire.

I am waiting for just this kind of reformation - although more Muslims fight against extremism than you think. See my post further back on Mutazilism; that sort of thinking will make a major resurgence at some point, I'm sure of it.

I see no evidence of any such resurgence in any place that matters. Furthermore, it's a foolish bet that any such resurgence will occur prior to the next 9/11, or a 9/11 with WMD's.

In the meantime, I'm not sure that mass exile of Muslim populations in the West would be quite fair.

The West is under no obligation to commit national and cultural suicide in the name of "fairness." Unfortunately for us, large parts of Western Europe seem to be doing exactly that.

I'll say it again and again - it's all about the interpretation. Just as America is suffering from the voting power of conservative Christians who read the Bible literally, the Middle East is suffering from conservative Muslims who read the Quran literally.

Not only is America not "suffering from the voting power of conservative Christians who read the Bible literally," but significant segments of the American judicial system, at least, have been actively warring against conservative Christians and, at the urging of the Atheist Criminal Liberal Union and those of like mind, have been attempting to cut off American society from its historic Judaeo-Christian roots. There is no conceivable, let alone honest, comparison between conservative Christians and fanatic Muslim movements (past and present) that have seized actual power in Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia, Sudan and other hapless lands.

I appreciate your seriousness, but at this point I really don't think we can argue meaningfully.

Indeed. Nor did I expect such. As I stated, I take seriously the words of Islamic scripture and of those who declare they act consistently with them.

_____

JC #24

Well, let us just say that these arguments won't be resolved unless people bother to actually research Islam rather than substitute the media for their foundation on controversal topics. Only then your view-point may be justified in the eyes of many.

Sound fair enough?

I say it does.

edit: forgot to add that I loathe groups like al-Qaeda absolutely. I know exactly how they twist and pervert the Quran to justify their murder, and it makes me sick. They're simply killers.

If they twisted the koran, they'd all be Mother Teresa. They don't need to do no twisting.

If they twisted the koran, they'd all be Mother Teresa. They don't need to do no twisting.

?

Not really sure what you're getting at here.

If they twisted the koran, they'd all be Mother Teresa. They don't need to do no twisting.

Dude ... don't step up and be an ass ... there was a nice conversation going on.

I have already spent months and countless hundreds of posts completely debunking the "Islam is a violent religion" myth and all one needs do is a simple forum search to find it all.

I'm not going to do it all again here because I genuinely hate repeating myself.

However, I will say this: Islam *is* a religion of peace. It speaks most highly of love and brotherhood and togetherness. Some of it *can* be interpreted to show that they truly believe in death, destruction, and general shenanigans ... but I can do that with a Donald Duck comic book, too ... if I really tried. (No, I will not respond to subsequent posts giving quotes from Qur'an because I guarantee you I've already responded to all of them and completely pwned the noob who posted it.)

So get off the cross ... someone needs the wood.

Islam *is* a religion of peace. It speaks most highly of love and brotherhood and togetherness.

There is no such thing as a religion of peace. Just religions of varying degrees of hostility.

There is no such thing as a religion of peace. Just religions of varying degrees of hostility.

I can think of three religions of peace off the top of my head: Islam, Christianity, and Buddhism.

Yes ... some of the followers of said religions have manipulated people into believing differently, but that doesn't make it so.

I no more consider Osama bin Laden a Muslim than I consider Fred Phelps a Christian.

There is no such thing as a religion of peace. Just religions of varying degrees of hostility.

Oh, so you're the "all religion is violent/causes violence" type? I'm tired and I don't want to argue this point, but it's a very big generalization to say the least.

I can think of three religions of peace off the top of my head: Islam, Christianity, and Buddhism.

Yes ... some of the followers of said religions have manipulated people into believing differently, but that doesn't make it so.

I no more consider Osama bin Laden a Muslim than I consider Fred Phelps a Christian.

http://www.cagle.com/news/Bestof2001/1.asp

(bottom-most cartoon)

*nods*

http://www.cagle.com/news/Bestof2001/1.asp

(bottom-most cartoon)

*nods*


I looked through those ... some very good stuff there! Thanks for the link.

I was particularly moved by this one:

http://www.cagle.com/news/TerrorNormal/normalgifs/wright.gif

Every innocent victim of Islamic terrorism creates ten more enemies of Islam. Think about it.

The few muslims I know or know of - at uni (god, I'm not a student now, wierd!), across the counter at the paper shop, on various net sites) - seem like everyone else, no difference at all.

But you can't help but be swayed by media reports; interviews with angry young men, footage of men killing your countrymen/women, hearing that people born in the same country as you want it changed and your rights taken away, airports, the tube, bus routes, all cancelled due to bomb threats, actual bombings... Reading bits of the Koran here on NS General doesn't reassure me at all.

It makes me wonder about the families/friends/acquaintances of the muslims I know.

In this respect, New Mitanni's right - muslims are going to be increasingly unwelcome in parts of the world, and in people's heads, due to what a minority of them do, and how a very substantial minority of them go on record as feeling/thinking. It does make me wonder how most of them really feel, if so many of them publicly state their hostility. The way to stop that animosity is for the mad-minority-muslims to stop killing.

Edit: alternatively, parts of the world will change to accomodate the mad-minority-muslims. I don't want that, either; but how do you stop that?

FRIEND: Not sure exactly what you're asking, but in my opinion not the entire West hates Muslims. They have only one view of them - as terrorists. If they looked at the bloody pictures of people dying in the streets of Iraq, people whom the US was supposed to be protecting, how would they feel? It is enough to make even a moderate Muslim like me very, very angry.

It would appear you can be just as judgemental as Westerners. I'm in the UK (I was born in England and am still here) and I don't hate muslims. I'm not muslim. After reading some stuff about the koran, I did start hating islam, but not muslims (this hate of islam recently changed after a dream). There are people in the west who hate muslims, but there are many who don't - including the historical adversary of muslims, Christians; whilst Christians used to hate muslims, nowadays, in England at least, they don't hate them. Some may have issues with what they perceive to be a "religion of war" rather than a "religion of peace", enforced by terrorist attacks carried out in the name of islam and certain passages in the koran (not to mention influential so-called muslims being allowed to encourage suicide bombing publicly, or beating your wife "as long as you don't leave a mark" - the latter being from an imam on Sharia TV, which really pissed me off, though at least he was argued against), but even those ones usually don't hate muslims themselves, and the majority want to get on with muslims - put it this way, if a muslim, in muslim dress, walked into a Christian church during a service, they would be approached and welcomed (except possibly in a Catholic church as in my experience whilst they are friendly, it's you has to approach them, instead of them approaching you), the only exception being if you were in FULL FULL FULL muslim dress, with only eyes visible, as they may not understand the reasons for you wearing that and may be scared that you've deliberately hidden your face because you want to do something bad.

There are people who hate muslims in the West. There are also people who don't. There are muslims who committ terrorism. There are muslims who condemn it. I judge each person based on THAT PERSON ALONE, bot on what group they happen to be associated with. If I didn't, I'd probably now be racist against white people (I'm white), considering the amount of confrontations I've had with them.

I say, "Fuck it if I'm expected to do anything just because some asshat is blowing himself up to kill fellow Americans. It should be enough that I'm siding with my nation, just like every other American."

(Side note: I didn't say I supported the Iraqi invasion and such, I'm a Democrat, etc etc)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since nobody ever seemed to ask you questions pertaining to the hot button topics and related matters...

What are your opinions on terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda?

How do you feel when there are people on General who gleefully proclaim to the effect that once you and every other practicing Muslim are all wiped out, there will be world peace and the United Federation of Planets will be formed?

Do you feel ignore these statements, or do you feel that it only ends up proving Bin Ladin and Ahmedinejad right when they keep claiming the West hates Muslims?

Do you find yourself having to put more effort into daily living than others around you just because people automatically assume you're a terrorist?

Opinions and thoughts are welcome.


As a Muslim here is my 2cents worth

Al-Qaeda are a bunch of loonies who have no idea what Jihad is. They are as bad and as evil as the ppl they try to destroy. They do not value human life and they do not value the lives of Muslims. They have no agenda, they claim to fighting for the Ummah (international muslim community) but they are making things only more difficult. Personally i believe Jihad is the way, but i do not believe in the form of Jihad that is being fought, i prefer the Jihad of the mind, that is mastery of Science and Technology and the uses of it to be governed by Religion. However, that does not mean i would totally avoid fighting. I believe that the recent tragedy in Lebanon warrents for armed Jihad, in Islam it is a sin not to defend yourself. Hezbollah, except for them ffiring missles at civilain population (then again they do not have precison weapons as well as lets be real the rockets they use are nothing compared to what israelis use) have very much performed armed Jihad correctly in a sense that most of those they killed were COMBATENTS they kidnapped COMBATENTS and not civilians. So, personally if Soldiers are killed then to me.. well they are soldiers rite.... when u become one u kinda like be realistic that if u shoot at ppl, ppl are gg to shoot at u back. I however condemn all attacks on civilians be it 9/11, murder of innocent Iraqis and Afghans, teh madrid train bombings, teh London bombings. Those that execute such acts of cowerdice by attacking those who cannot defend themselves deserve to burn in hell. now if tehy attacked military basses... thats another story.


now those who think that when Islam is destroyed there would be world peace are kidding themselves, i mean pls lets be realistic conflict is human and with or without Islam ppl are gg to kill each other. Then again, if tehy think that Muslims 'terrorist' target any non-muslim indescrimantely then they are deluded. If you noticed 90% of terror acts are performed on supporters of the american so called war on terror. i mean.... these ppl do not attack countries like China or Luxemburg... or Sweden. So yea if you if they think Islam and Muslims are teh cause then maybe they should look at themselves in teh mirror and refelct on thier actions and see who are teh real aggressors.. ignorent ppl like them most definitely. Ppl are not born to hate, somehow with that ignorence, and disrespect as well as american/british meddeling in teh mid-east (again lets face it... the mid-east today is carved out by the Biritsh and Americans) there is a reason to hate ( i mean what if i come over to your house and say play by my rules or im gonna blow off ur brains) are the main causes for arab hate to the US and Brits.


the west hate muslims? lets not generalise.. but i think if tey do then its because of bias media reporting. and ignorence again, just because we do not have YOUR values and do NOT WANT your values does not mean we are evil. However, i feel that 'muslims' lik bin laden and teh wahabbi sect and thier strict and rigid interprettion of Islam shoudl be blamed as well. things like denying women education and all are pretty new stuff conjured up abt only 200 or so years ago and are not widely accepted in Sunni and even Shia communities.


and those who comment on the Sharia and all... firstly you ppl do not understand the Sharia.. do not know its aims and purpose. you only know what ppl to you and rarely have first hand surces on it. as a muslim i dare not comment on the Sharia because i knoe that i do not know enough. however let me correct certain misconceptions, the rule that 4 men need to witness the rape of a women for the perpertrator to pe punished is hogwash thought up by some MCP (male chauvanistic pig) tribal ppl. the real law is that u need to produce 4 male witness to punish the COUPLE (yes both man and women... fascinating aint it?) for ADULTARY. rite.. if u are gonna cheat your spouse in front of 4 honest man than you are nuts, but seriouslly i mean its not easy to get stoned even if you want to

well my daily life im ucky to be living in a community that has long interacted and live with each other in peace... so there is really no streotyping or generalisation of muslims =)

so yea as a muslim personally... i mean so wad if the world isnt muslim... or if im the only muslim left in the world, God does not lose if all of humanity does not worship him right? so yea.

As a Muslim here is my 2cents worth

Al-Qaeda are a bunch of loonies who have no idea what Jihad is. They are as bad and as evil as the ppl they try to destroy.

You think there's a moral equivalence between terrorists and their victims? Why?

They do not value human life and they do not value the lives of Muslims. They have no agenda, they claim to fighting for the Ummah (international muslim community) but they are making things only more difficult.

<Supports!>

Personally i believe Jihad is the way, but i do not believe in the form of Jihad that is being fought, i prefer the Jihad of the mind, that is mastery of Science and Technology and the uses of it to be governed by Religion. However, that does not mean i would totally avoid fighting. I believe that the recent tragedy in Lebanon warrents for armed Jihad, in Islam it is a sin not to defend yourself. Hezbollah...have very much performed armed Jihad correctly ...

I won't disagree with the sentiment, but I think you're far too forgiving of hezbollah - they fire at cities and cause random casualties. If, as you contend, the rockets are that inaccurate, it's obvious that those firing don't care where they land, or who they kill. Furthermore, would this last crisis in Lebanon have occured at all, would Israel have invaded, if Hezbollah were not attacking from Lebanon?

I however condemn all attacks on civilians be it 9/11, murder of innocent Iraqis and Afghans, teh madrid train bombings, teh London bombings. Those that execute such acts of cowerdice by attacking those who cannot defend themselves deserve to burn in hell.

<more support>

If you noticed 90% of terror acts are performed on supporters of the american so called war on terror. i mean.... these ppl do not attack countries like China or Luxemburg... or Sweden. So yea if you if they think Islam and Muslims are teh cause then maybe they should look at themselves in teh mirror and refelct on thier actions and see who are teh real aggressors..

Why did the 'war on terror' begin? Terrorist attacks - that's the casue of the 'war on terror'. What I think you're talking about is 'the initial cause of the terrorist attacks that in turn caused the war on terror', is that right? What _justified_ those terrorist attacks in the first place, though?

just because we do not have YOUR values and do NOT WANT your values does not mean we are evil. However, i feel that 'muslims' lik bin laden and teh wahabbi sect and thier strict and rigid interprettion of Islam shoudl be blamed as well. things like denying women education and all are pretty new stuff conjured up abt only 200 or so years ago and are not widely accepted in Sunni and even Shia communities.

It depends what you mean by 'values'. A person or community lacking some western values does in fact mean that person/community is 'evil' by western standards, while other 'values' are much more neutral, optional. Freedom of thought, speech, religion, equality before the law for all, the right not to be killed in a political game of who's got the biggest dick, those are a few of the dealbreakers, I think (though there are more).

As a Muslim here is my 2cents worth

Al-Qaeda are a bunch of loonies who have no idea what Jihad is. They are as bad and as evil as the ppl they try to destroy. They do not value human life and they do not value the lives of Muslims. They have no agenda, they claim to fighting for the Ummah (international muslim community) but they are making things only more difficult. Personally i believe Jihad is the way, but i do not believe in the form of Jihad that is being fought, i prefer the Jihad of the mind, that is mastery of Science and Technology and the uses of it to be governed by Religion. However, that does not mean i would totally avoid fighting. I believe that the recent tragedy in Lebanon warrents for armed Jihad, in Islam it is a sin not to defend yourself. Hezbollah, except for them ffiring missles at civilain population (then again they do not have precison weapons as well as lets be real the rockets they use are nothing compared to what israelis use) have very much performed armed Jihad correctly in a sense that most of those they killed were COMBATENTS they kidnapped COMBATENTS and not civilians. So, personally if Soldiers are killed then to me.. well they are soldiers rite.... when u become one u kinda like be realistic that if u shoot at ppl, ppl are gg to shoot at u back. I however condemn all attacks on civilians be it 9/11, murder of innocent Iraqis and Afghans, teh madrid train bombings, teh London bombings. Those that execute such acts of cowerdice by attacking those who cannot defend themselves deserve to burn in hell. now if tehy attacked military basses... thats another story.


now those who think that when Islam is destroyed there would be world peace are kidding themselves, i mean pls lets be realistic conflict is human and with or without Islam ppl are gg to kill each other. Then again, if tehy think that Muslims 'terrorist' target any non-muslim indescrimantely then they are deluded. If you noticed 90% of terror acts are performed on supporters of the american so called war on terror. i mean.... these ppl do not attack countries like China or Luxemburg... or Sweden. So yea if you if they think Islam and Muslims are teh cause then maybe they should look at themselves in teh mirror and refelct on thier actions and see who are teh real aggressors.. ignorent ppl like them most definitely. Ppl are not born to hate, somehow with that ignorence, and disrespect as well as american/british meddeling in teh mid-east (again lets face it... the mid-east today is carved out by the Biritsh and Americans) there is a reason to hate ( i mean what if i come over to your house and say play by my rules or im gonna blow off ur brains) are the main causes for arab hate to the US and Brits.


the west hate muslims? lets not generalise.. but i think if tey do then its because of bias media reporting. and ignorence again, just because we do not have YOUR values and do NOT WANT your values does not mean we are evil. However, i feel that 'muslims' lik bin laden and teh wahabbi sect and thier strict and rigid interprettion of Islam shoudl be blamed as well. things like denying women education and all are pretty new stuff conjured up abt only 200 or so years ago and are not widely accepted in Sunni and even Shia communities.


and those who comment on the Sharia and all... firstly you ppl do not understand the Sharia.. do not know its aims and purpose. you only know what ppl to you and rarely have first hand surces on it. as a muslim i dare not comment on the Sharia because i knoe that i do not know enough. however let me correct certain misconceptions, the rule that 4 men need to witness the rape of a women for the perpertrator to pe punished is hogwash thought up by some MCP (male chauvanistic pig) tribal ppl. the real law is that u need to produce 4 male witness to punish the COUPLE (yes both man and women... fascinating aint it?) for ADULTARY. rite.. if u are gonna cheat your spouse in front of 4 honest man than you are nuts, but seriouslly i mean its not easy to get stoned even if you want to

well my daily life im ucky to be living in a community that has long interacted and live with each other in peace... so there is really no streotyping or generalisation of muslims =)

so yea as a muslim personally... i mean so wad if the world isnt muslim... or if im the only muslim left in the world, God does not lose if all of humanity does not worship him right? so yea.

Whilst I take issue with some of your post, I can't be arsed responding to it properly right now (hey, at least I'm honest :)), so I'm just gonna say two things:

1. According to the koran, a person who is muslim but converts to another religion must be killed. This link is from a pro-islam site http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544134. This is my take on the bad passages of the koran: http://ketchupandcurry.blogspot.com/2006/05/quran-mistranslation.html

Apparently, only a caliph (or his representative) can kill the convert. Thus, it may be possible to save the person's life by the caliph refusing to kill him.

2. I agree that the people who claim to be muslims and commit terrorist attacks are tarring the name of islam, against the koran (which says to try to get people to be muslim, not to make them hate the religion and thus never even consider joining). Perhspa they're really from another religion and are deliberately making people hate islam and muslims because they want to prevent people from joining.

P.S. Just a quick not regarding any claims that islam is securing lots and lots of converts to islam: For a muslim woman to be allowed to marry a man, the man MUST be muslim (though a muslim man can marry a Christian or a jew) - this means the man HAS to convert to islam if he loves the woman, or face a life without her. So that can explain a LOT of conversions.

I say, "Fuck it if I'm expected to do anything just because some asshat is blowing himself up to kill fellow Americans. It should be enough that I'm siding with my nation, just like every other American."

(Side note: I didn't say I supported the Iraqi invasion and such, I'm a Democrat, etc etc)


1. You don't have to side with Bush to be a patriot.
2. You don't have to support the war in Iraq to be a patriot.
3. If you don't support protecting the US from militant Islamic terrorists (i.e., you think it would be better to do nothing), you're not a patriot. See the dictionary for "wuss".

Colodia, you're just fine. Don't let people say you're not a patriot.

Well, thanks for clearing that up. And by the way, I'm sure you're as quick to leap to the defense of, say, the Catholic Church when it comes under attack . . . er, no, I must have mistaken you for someone else.

the difference between insulting the church and muslims is that, muslims are a group of people that are not incharge of what some people do in that group, were as the church is an organisation that does. the catholic church may not have power catholic terror groups but it has authority over priests.

When any one group dominates in society, it tends to oppress the others. This is perfectly true. For my part, I would like to think that if I lived in a majority-Muslim country, I would fight for the equal rights of Christians, Jews and apostates. But I was raised in a liberal and tolerant background anyway, thanks to my parents.


the existance of yesmusic proves new mitainni wrong and such.

P.S. Just a quick not regarding any claims that islam is securing lots and lots of converts to islam: For a muslim woman to be allowed to marry a man, the man MUST be muslim (though a muslim man can marry a Christian or a jew) - this means the man HAS to convert to islam if he loves the woman, or face a life without her. So that can explain a LOT of conversions.

ah yes it is very hard to get some islamic pussy. me and my friends regard them as the ultimate goal. those head skarves are sexy.

The next time an organization of serial killers proclaims that it's acting in the name of "white males" will be the first.


Ok, then why aren't you loudly denouncing every white supremisist who's ever killed for his racisim?

Ok, then why aren't you loudly denouncing every white supremisist who's ever killed for his racisim?

I've never been able to understand why somebody should apologize for the actions of someone they've never seen, talked to, or even met. Just being the same race/religion of a criminal doesn't mean you are responsible for the criminal's actions.

How do you feel when there are people on General who gleefully proclaim to the effect that once you and every other practicing Muslim are all wiped out, there will be world peace and the United Federation of Planets will be formed?
They're like every other extreme, but not armed, minority. Laughable.

Muslims in the west don't suffer and their lives are more difficult. No Arab Muslim I know has ever encountered discrimination, even in flying.

You almost seem to want Muslims here to be persecuted, so you can be their noble saviour.

I'm a Christian. I regard Muslims are people of the book and our brothers and sisters. Killing people goes against all of our core religious beliefs.

I always wonder why mulsium haven't denounce any terrorist attack by their own people in massive numbers.
They have, you just don't want to listen. It's questionable whether they should even have to though. How can it logically be assumed that moderate Muslims support it if they don't specifically condemn it?

Go ahead. Show me a news link to a demonstration by several million Muslims denouncing the 9-11 attacks.
Show me a news link to a demonstration by several million people on anything!

The demonstrations against the cartoons neither involved millions, nor were on a worldwide scale.

In which case I can't think of protests by anyone against the 9/11 attacks. That certainly doesn't mean that everyone supports them.

Not too off-topic considering it's the boldest example of how the West perceives Muslims as a whole, lumping them together with Islamist groups like Al-Qaeda.
The west doesn't perceive all Muslims as being like Islamists.

And it's from the same DesignatedMarksman who started the "Jew Crew" you're a proud member of. Food for thought. That underlined bit is a link to his post where I got it from.
The reason I joined that was not to endorese DM's opinions, but to prevent the Jew Crew from being a pack of war hawks.

Ooooh, there's that "B-word" again!

Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!

What an idiotic rant.

You realise that you are inviting a muslim to eat PIG ?
The Muslim offered to bring vodka so I think it's safely in joking territory.

Massive genocidal killings which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy as it convinces some Muslims that the terrorists were right about the West all along and to join their cause is a genuine struggle for Muslim survival as a whole.
Yes. Maybe you ought to stop spreading the lie that every American and European thinks that every Muslim is a terrorist that needs killin'. Someone might believe you.

Ok, then why aren't you loudly denouncing every white supremisist who's ever killed for his racisim?

An interesting question considering you know absolutely nothing about me (and likely little enough about anything else). In fact (and you do know what a fact is, don't you), I have denounced, do denounce and will continue to denounce "every white supremisist [sic] who's ever killed or his racisim [sic]". And considering that my religious background is Catholic and I've had Korean and Jewish girlfriends, I would say that those "white supremisists" would consider me less than pure myself. So trying to make this a racial issue fails miserably. Nice try :p

_____

JC #24

I have already spent months and countless hundreds of posts completely debunking the "Islam is a violent religion" myth and all one needs do is a simple forum search to find it all.

The only thing you've "debunked" is any assertion of your own credibility.

If there's one poster who speaks with authority on this subject, it's Tropical Sands, and his posts have irrefutably demolished many of the positions Islamic enablers, apologists and fantasists have advanced.

Disclaimer: TS has also criticized some of my positions, although he has agreed with others.

The only thing you've "debunked" is any assertion of your own credibility.

If there's one poster who speaks with authority on this subject, it's Tropical Sands, and his posts have irrefutably demolished many of the positions Islamic enablers, apologists and fantasists have advanced.

Disclaimer: TS has also criticized some of my positions, although he has agreed with others.


Thou Shalt Not commit forum necrophilia

Thou Shalt Not commit forum necrophilia

Thank you for quoting thy holy commandments :D

I always wonder why mulsium haven't denounce any terrorist attack by their own people in massive numbers.
http://www.sullivan-county.com/identity/bin_laden.html
http://www.usembassyjakarta.org/lawmaker.html
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:NFEcFTKSzcUJ:www.chaplain.navy.mil/Attachments/SeekingMeaning_Grand_Imam.pdf+Tantawi++Bin+Laden+James+Reston&hl=en

(sorry for huge URL:eek: )
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/10/17/195606.shtml
http://www.islamfortoday.com/qaradawi02.htm

there you go...