NationStates Jolt Archive

Two "Asian" men ( I guess from the sub-continent) were talking in a "strange" language at the airport gate and the other passengers (British) would not board the plane with them.

I suppose the stiff upper lip just got stiffer.....this is despicable racism. Dunno if this will be a precedent or not.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=401419&in_page_id=1770&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=NEWS&ct=5
Mutiny on Flight 613

Passengers refuse to allow holiday jet to take off until two Asian men are thrown off plane

By CHRISTOPHER LEAKE and ANDREW CHAPMAN

19th August 2006

British holidaymakers staged an unprecedented mutiny - refusing to allow their flight to take off until two men they feared were terrorists were forcibly removed.

The extraordinary scenes happened after some of the 150 passengers on a Malaga-Manchester flight overheard two men of Asian appearance apparently talking Arabic.

Passengers told cabin crew they feared for their safety and demanded police action. Some stormed off the Monarch Airlines Airbus A320 minutes before it was due to leave the Costa del Sol at 3am. Others waiting for Flight ZB 613 in the departure lounge refused to board it.

The incident fuels the row over airport security following the arrest of more than 20 people allegedly planning the suicide-bombing of transatlantic jets from the UK to America. It comes amid growing demands for passenger-profiling and selective security checks.

It also raised fears that more travellers will take the law into their own hands - effectively conducting their own 'passenger profiles'.

The passenger revolt came as Ryanair boss Michael O'Leary was accused of using the terror crisis to make money. Government sources say he boasted to an official at the Transport Department: "Every time I appear on TV, I get a spike in sales."

The Tories said the Government's failure to reassure travellers had led the Malaga passengers to 'behave irrationally' and 'hand a victory to terrorists'.

Websites used by pilots and cabin crew were yesterday reporting further incidents. In one, two British women with young children on another flight from Spain complained about flying with a bearded Muslim even though he had been security-checked twice before boarding.

The trouble in Malaga flared last Wednesday as two British citizens in their 20s waited in the departure lounge to board the pre-dawn flight and were heard talking what passengers took to be Arabic. Worries spread after a female passenger said she had heard something that alarmed her.

Passengers noticed that, despite the heat, the pair were wearing leather jackets and thick jumpers and were regularly checking their watches.

Initially, six passengers refused to board the flight. On board the aircraft, word reached one family. To the astonishment of cabin crew, they stood up and walked off, followed quickly by others.

The Monarch pilot - a highly experienced captain - accompanied by armed Civil Guard police and airport security staff, approached the two men and took their passports.

Half an hour later, police returned and escorted the two Asian passengers off the jet.

'There was no fuss or panic'

Soon afterwards, the aircraft was cleared while police did a thorough security sweep. Nothing was found and the plane took off - three hours late and without the two men on board.

Monarch arranged for them to spend the rest of the night in an airport hotel and flew them back to Manchester later on Wednesday.

College lecturer Jo Schofield, her husband Heath and daughters Emily, 15, and Isabel, 12, were caught up in the passenger mutiny.

Mrs Schofield, 38, said: "The plane was not yet full and it became apparent that people were refusing to board. In the gate waiting area, people had been talking about these two, who looked really suspicious with their heavy clothing, scruffy, rough, appearance and long hair.

"Some of the older children, who had seen the terror alert on television, were starting to mutter things like, 'Those two look like they're bombers.'

"Then a family stood up and walked off the aircraft. They were joined by others, about eight in all. We learned later that six or seven people had refused to get on the plane.

"There was no fuss or panic. People just calmly and quietly got off the plane. There were no racist taunts or any remarks directed at the men.

"It was an eerie scene, very quiet. The children were starting to ask what was going on. We tried to play it down."

Mr Schofield, 40, an area sales manager, said: "When the men were taken off they didn't argue or say a word. They just picked up their coats and obeyed the police. They seemed resigned to the fact they were under suspicion.

"The captain and crew were very apologetic when we were asked to evacuate the plane for the security search. But there was no dissent.

"While we were waiting, everyone agreed the men looked dodgy. Some passengers were very panicky and in tears. There was a lot of talking about terrorists."

Patrick Mercer, the Tory Homeland Security spokesman, said last night: "This is a victory for terrorists. These people on the flight have been terrorised into behaving irrationally.

"For those unfortunate two men to be victimised because of the colour of their skin is just nonsense."

Monarch said last night: "The captain was concerned about the security surrounding the two gentlemen on the aircraft and the decision was taken to remove them from the flight for further security checks.

"The two passengers offloaded from the flight were later cleared by airport security and rebooked to travel back to Manchester on a later flight."

A spokesman for the Civil Guard in Malaga said: "These men had aroused suspicion because of their appearance and the fact that they were speaking in a foreign language thought to be an Arabic language, and the pilot was refusing to take off until they were escorted off the plane."

Been posted before

God, yes, I heard about that on the radio an hour ago or so.

I couldn't believe it - how is something like that even possible?! What, so now some asshole pointing to someone he considers "strange" can get people taken off planes and considered terrorists?

Seriously, how far is this paranoia going to go?

Been posted before
Oops, really? Where?

Oops, really? Where?
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=496674
You can't tell from the title, it's a DK thread.

Oops, really? Where?

"Improve security or go out of business"

I'm inclined not to critisize. If they were wearing leather ajckets, and think jumpers, and generally acting suspicious, then I guess it is justified.

If they did blow up the plane, it could be argued the passengers wer enegligent somehow, in their civil duty.

But then again, I'm a Briton, and tend to have rather unique view on the war on terrorism.

So a bunch of people were preventing a flgiht from taking off? Sounds like terrorism, they should all be jailed.

I'm inclined not to critisize. If they were wearing leather ajckets, and think jumpers, and generally acting suspicious, then I guess it is justified.

If they did blow up the plane, it could be argued the passengers wer enegligent somehow, in their civil duty.

But then again, I'm a Briton, and tend to have rather unique view on the war on terrorism.
Yeah, see, the thing is: all that has been on the news is that they were talking in (presumably) Arabic. Nothing about "suspicious behaviour" or even "looking suspicious" at all. Just talking in a strange language. WTF?

Yeah, see, the thing is: all that has been on the news is that they were talking in (presumably) Arabic. Nothing about "suspicious behaviour" or even "looking suspicious" at all. Just talking in a strange language. WTF?
No no no, the funniest part was when they said they were talking in a language that they thought was Arabic then a lady said she thought she heard something suspicious. You don't even know what god damn language it is and you "heard something that alarmed her?" How about you go drown yourself in a spoon.

Mrs Schofield, 38, said: "The plane was not yet full and it became apparent that people were refusing to board. In the gate waiting area, people had been talking about these two, who looked really suspicious with their heavy clothing, scruffy, rough, appearance and long hair.

:(

I see your point, about how they were being targeted on the basis of speaking another language, but it seems that there was more to it........

:(

I see your point, about how they were being targeted on the basis of speaking another language, but it seems that there was more to it........
Yes, instead of being targeted on the basis of speaking a language other than english, they were instead being targeted on the basis of their personal grooming.

...who looked really suspicious with their heavy clothing, scruffy, rough, appearance and long hair.

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/MMPH/240386~Cheech-And-Chong-Posters.jpg

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/MMPH/240386~Cheech-And-Chong-Posters.jpg


I imagined Keruvalia and Cat Stevens.

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/MMPH/240386~Cheech-And-Chong-Posters.jpg
Hell, with those two on I'd be off the plane pretty sharp myself.

Time to purchase an AK-47, camoulflage clothing, and making hiding places and bunkers for my Muslim brothers.

I hope this is an isolated incident and never happens again, but it seems we might be moving in a direction we don't want to go. Hopefully, this time, we will stop it early.

And then you'll have another armed gang going about the place! :D That'll solve all the problems, right?

Meh this isn't particularly suprising. There are some racists in england you know.

Passengers noticed that, despite the heat, the pair were wearing leather jackets and thick jumpers and were regularly checking their watches.
Maybe (and this is pure speculation) they were wearing those clothes because they were going to Britain, which is usually not too warm at around 5 in the morning, and they were checking their watches because they didn't want to miss the flight. Just maybe.

If I were one of the men I'd sue the airline.

I think the airline should sack the pilot and then sue the non-Muslim passangers for loss of trade

Yeah, I feel sorry for the two Muslim men, I look at my watch quite often at airports, last time I checked, it wasn't becuase I planned to blow things up. The men should sue the passangers as well as someone suggested in the other thread

Hell, with those two on I'd be off the plane pretty sharp myself.
That's where you and I differ.
If those two were on a plane, I would just know I'd be in for a cool trip.

The pilot is responsible for the safety of all the passengers. If he beleives there is a danger to he passengers then he has every right to remove people from the plane.

We are not talking about some ignorant skinhead here, we are talking about an experienced educated man who obviously beleived the men were acting suspiciously. From what I've heard they were acting rather strangely, and yes, if they'd been white they may have got some funny looks but nothing more.

The real victims of this aren't just the two Muslim men, we are all victims. This is all part of the terror plan. Those two muslims are targets for terrorists jsut like we are. These ISlamic Extremists will attempt to destroy our way of life however they can, if it means causing unrest and suspicion everytime one boards a plane then they will have suceeded.

I would say that the British people should stand up to this threat by simply getting on with their lives, but we are at war. During the second world war, if you noticed someone speaking German would you not be suspicious? You'd probably shoot the *****. We can't expect the British public to completely ignore the fact that the vast vast majority of terroists are asian and all speak arabic. It's a fact, and Muslim people have to be aware of this. They too have understand the complexity of this issue. Until the terrorists are stopped, we are at war with them and these things will continue to happen, as victories for the terrorists.

In time we will become less suspicious of these activites, but if we all remain alert, we can prevent deaths and Muslim people will have to learn to make sacrifices also. We are all experiencing disruptions and inonveniences, I'm sorry to all Muslim people but they wil have to accept their faith is being used as a justification for this terror and thus they, like all of us will have to make some sacrifices also. If they simply spoke english rather than arabic (if they could), this would have un eased all of the passengers immediately. Yes, this is somewhat unfair but desperate times call for desperate measures. I'd rather they were forced to speak english then all be banend from flying, becuase that is what will happen if we don't start being sensible about this.

We are not talking about some ignorant skinhead here, we are talking about an experienced educated man
The passengers collectively count as an experience, educated man? Who knew.

This is all part of the terror plan.
And they are winning with imaginary threats and failed supposed attempts.

I think the airline should sack the pilot and then sue the non-Muslim passangers for loss of trade

Yeah, I feel sorry for the two Muslim men, I look at my watch quite often at airports, last time I checked, it wasn't becuase I planned to blow things up. The men should sue the passangers as well as someone suggested in the other thread

and

We are not talking about some ignorant skinhead here, we are talking about an experienced educated man who obviously beleived the men were acting suspiciously.

The pilot has to bear in mind the safety of the passengers but THE PILOT HAS NOT BEEN REPORTED AS SAYING ANYTHING BAD ABOUT THE MEN (in fact the crew have been reported as being apologetic) - people complained of something serious (possible terrorist attack), he had to take it seriously. People were also leaving the plane, and he would have to explain his reasons for flying off with half the passengers missing. He received complaints from lots of passengers (partially in the form of some leaving the plane or refusing to get on) and he had to deal with it. Telling the passengers "you're all fucking paranoid" wouldn't have sufficed. He had no choice but to involve the police.

I would say that the British people should stand up to this threat by simply getting on with their lives, but we are at war. During the second world war, if you noticed someone speaking German would you not be suspicious? You'd probably shoot the *****. We can't expect the British public to completely ignore the fact that the vast vast majority of terroists are asian and all speak arabic. It's a fact, and Muslim people have to be aware of this. They too have understand the complexity of this issue. Until the terrorists are stopped, we are at war with them and these things will continue to happen, as victories for the terrorists.

1. We are not offcially at war.

2. Even if we are unofficially at war, it is war against terrorists, not war against anyone who happens to be muslim. During WW2, any German in the country (or anyone speaking German) would have been viewed as suspicious because they were either supposed to be in prison, or in Germany, anything else meant potential attack/invasion which needed to be prevented/stopped. There is no current requirement for all muslims to be locked up. They are freely allowed in many Western countries, so why view them speaking in their native tongue as suspicious? It's totally different from WW2.

But we DO have to be alert. The passengers aren't to blame for being scared. I'd rather they were scared and an explosion was prevented than they were too PC and people got killed - even if that means mistakes happen where innocent people are thought to be terrorists.

Maybe (and this is pure speculation) they were wearing those clothes because they were going to Britain, which is usually not too warm at around 5 in the morning, and they were checking their watches because they didn't want to miss the flight. Just maybe.
Also, people from the Indian sub-continent are more used to the heat than Britons and, as a result, also feel the cold more.
So what might be considered warm for a Manchesterian isn't for a Pakistani.

Here in HK, I see the locals in ski jackets pretty much as soon as the temperature drops below 20C. 30+ degrees and they're still not sweating.

Ok I withdraw my remark about sacking the pilot but I disagree on the passangers, innocent till proven guilty is my philoshpy, being Muslim and having a beard should not promote wide spread panic

It's only going to get worse.

What they should've done as a matter of moral justice is refused to let the passengers who wouldn't go on the flight onto the flight and just the left the two and their "strange language".

Ich bien hiest.


What a strange lanuage German is, how could that mean I am sexually aroused?


I didn't spell it right did I?

What they should've done as a matter of moral justice is refused to let the passengers who wouldn't go on the flight onto the flight and just the left the two and their "strange language"......

No, what they should have done is exactly what they did - acted on the suspicions of the passengers. If they hadn't, there would have been uproar, espcially if the suspicions had been right. People (maybe wrongly) thought the two were suspicious, feared for their safety, and the pilot was informed. If there is a worry of a terrorist attack on the plane, he HAS to act.

"They're bollocked if they do and they're bollocked if they don't".

Two "Asian" men ( I guess from the sub-continent) were talking in a "strange" language at the airport gate and the other passengers (British) would not board the plane with them.

I suppose the stiff upper lip just got stiffer.....this is despicable racism. Dunno if this will be a precedent or not.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=401419&in_page_id=1770&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=NEWS&ct=5

I hardly see how this qualifies as stiff upper lip.

From wikipedia: One who has a stiff upper lip displays fortitude in the face of adversity, or exercises self-restraint in the expression of emotion.

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/MMPH/240386~Cheech-And-Chong-Posters.jpg
OMG! Cheech and Chong are TERRORISTS?!

Muslims have as much right to fly on planes as other britons do.

If the passengers were afraid, when the muslims were doing nothing illegal, they could choose to not fly.

If the muslims were doing something outright suspicious, which does not mean wearing warm clothing and looking at watches, then the police should have been involved. As it stands, there was nothing they were doing that were even close to terrorist activies, just normal ones. There is a difference between irrational and rational suspicion. The main suspicion here was that they were asians speaking in an asian language. That is irrational.

These men should sue the airline company.

Given the statistics, those 2 arab men probably (are they? I'm not bothered to read whole story) oppresses their wifes or women. So consider this as a punishment for their primitive idiology....

Given the statistics, those 2 arab men probably (are they? I'm not bothered to read whole story) oppresses their wifes or women. So consider this as a punishment for their primitive idiology....

:rolleyes:

Given the statistics, those 2 arab men probably (are they? I'm not bothered to read whole story) oppresses their wifes or women. So consider this as a punishment for their primitive idiology....

What a load of shit

Two "Asian" men ( I guess from the sub-continent) were talking in a "strange" language at the airport gate and the other passengers (British) would not board the plane with them.

I suppose the stiff upper lip just got stiffer.....this is despicable racism. Dunno if this will be a precedent or not.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=401419&in_page_id=1770&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=NEWS&ct=5
Oh really, at least listen to the other half of the story before you condemn a hundred people as racists.

From what the passengers are saying it sounds like these two were playing up as a 'prank'. They were being delibarately provocative for their own amusement, and, quite frankly, I think they should have been left there for trying to play such a sick 'joke' on so many people.

This is a link from one passenger: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/5276504.stm

Oh really, at least listen to the other half of the story before you condemn a hundred people as racists.

From what the passengers are saying it sounds like these two were playing up as a 'prank'. They were being delibarately provocative for their own amusement, and, quite frankly, I think they should have been left there for trying to play such a sick 'joke' on so many people.

This is a link from one passenger: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/5276504.stm

A perfect example of crying racism to defend idiots...

Given the statistics, those 2 arab men probably (are they? I'm not bothered to read whole story) oppresses their wifes or women. So consider this as a punishment for their primitive idiology....

uh

If the muslims were doing something outright suspicious, which does not mean wearing warm clothing and looking at watches, then the police should have been involved. As it stands, there was nothing they were doing that were even close to terrorist activies, just normal ones. There is a difference between irrational and rational suspicion. The main suspicion here was that they were asians speaking in an asian language. That is irrational.

These men should sue the airline company.

I hate to tell you this but terrorists dont wear banners that say HI IM A TERRORIST AND I HAVE A HUGE BOMB ON ME. They also dont tick, dont carry thier terrorist member cards on them nor play thier Martyr video on thier laptops while waiting to board. Sometimes the only way you will catch a terrorist is the way he looks nervous, or sweats a certian way, or compulsivly looking at his watch or wearing bulky clothing. Does this mean that there are arnt TONS of people that innocently do these things every day? Of course not, but due to the fact that it just takes one minor overlooked sign that can get thousands of people killed, the nessesity of many false positives is absolutly unfortunate yet nessesary. Millions of Muslims travel every single year without having having people evacuate planes because they show up. There was something more to this story then the millions of non storys of Muslims that board planes daily. The fact that its a false positive is simply unfortunate. These people were given a hotel and by all accounts were treated with respect despite having to put them thru this unfortunate but nessesary ordeal.

I hate to tell you this but terrorists dont wear banners that say HI IM A TERRORIST AND I HAVE A HUGE BOMB ON ME. They also dont tick, dont carry thier terrorist member cards on them nor play thier Martyr video on thier laptops while waiting to board. Yeah, captain obvious. You forgot to add that being Arab (or Pakistani) isn't a membership card either.
Sometimes the only way you will catch a terrorist is the way he looks nervous, Like someone who is afraid to fly and is about to board a plane?
or sweats a certian way, Like someone who is a afraid to fly or has a sweating disorder?
or compulsivly looking at his watch Like someone trying to catch a flight?
or wearing bulky clothing.Like someone going on an airconditioned flight?
Does this mean that there are arnt TONS of people that innocently do these things every day? Of course not, but due to the fact that it just takes one minor overlooked sign that can get thousands of people killed, the nessesity of many false positives is absolutly unfortunate yet nessesary. Did anyone mention to you that terrorists breathe oxygen? Maybe we should be on the look out for that too.
Millions of Muslims travel every single year without having having people evacuate planes because they show up. There was something more to this story then the millions of non storys of Muslims that board planes daily. The fact that its a false positive is simply unfortunate. These people were given a hotel and by all accounts were treated with respect despite having to put them thru this unfortunate but nessesary ordeal.What? "More to this story"? Yeah, there were attempted bombings two weeks ago and people have been pushing the paranoia, that's what's more to this story. And "We're sorry, you can't board this flight because the other passengers are racists," is hardly a respectful manner to treat someone.
Seperate but equal FTW! :rolleyes:

Two "Asian" men ( I guess from the sub-continent) were talking in a "strange" language at the airport gate and the other passengers (British) would not board the plane with them.

I suppose the stiff upper lip just got stiffer.....this is despicable racism. Dunno if this will be a precedent or not.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=401419&in_page_id=1770&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=NEWS&ct=5


That's not the stiff upper lip. The famous Upper Lip of the British has acquired a noticible wobble with the current generation. I blame global warming. The nice weather in England has softened it up a bit.

The Stiff Upper Lip of previous generations would have meant hearing people speak in English about their plan to blow up the plane, assume that they misheard, board the plane, and be too polite to say anything and hope that if they're wrong, the plane blows up quickly before anyone notices how tense they are.

It also would have precluded giant run-on sentences like the one above.

Maybe those men where nervous because they where surrounded by a bunch of uptight crackers.

I agree with an earlier poster. The fucktards don't want to get on? (the men where checked twice, make anyone nervous and a little irratated) Then it looks like two guys got a private flight and a bunch of uptight paranoid losers have to buy new tickets. No catering to hysteria. Terrorists want people to jump at thier own shadow. Anyone appoligising for this nonsense should be sending congratulation cards to the ol' Al Q. How does it feel to be thier bitch?

I saw the two Asian guys on TV... they didn't look threatening at all. They were two Westernised guys with slicked back hair and trendy racing jackets... AND they were coming back from Malaga... I can't imagine there is much for an Islamist to do on an island that is essentially a colony of British hedonism.

Also, according to them the initial worry came from a little girl who had obviously not had much exposure to Asians outside of the media portraying them all as Terrorists, from there Chinese Whispers spred untill the panic disrupted the flight. So it would be unfair to blame the reaction of racism, it looks like it is ignorance and fear who are to blame.

I feel sorry for the guys, and I wish them the best of luck if they decide to sue.

...Isn't this thread like... a week late? :confused:

OMG! Cheech and Chong are TERRORISTS?!

OMGWTF?!?!

OMGWTF?!?!
LOMG!!!

LOMG!!!

ROFLWAFFLES!!!

And so - Ladies and Gentlemen of the Academy, this evening I'd like to present to you the single-least informed, as well as simultaneously being the single-most obtuse post made in earnest on NationStates so far this year, A.D. 2006:
Given the statistics, those 2 arab men probably (are they? I'm not bothered to read whole story) oppresses their wifes or women. So consider this as a punishment for their primitive idiology....
Congratulations, Ny Fjordland.

He also spelt "wives" wrong. And "ideology." And "oppresses" should be "oppress."

I think I'm becoming a grammar Nazi....

Meh this isn't particularly suprising. There are some racists in england you know.

I never really knew the whole race issue spread to Europe (besides the recent Arab stuff in western Europe)

I hate to tell you this but terrorists dont wear banners that say HI IM A TERRORIST AND I HAVE A HUGE BOMB ON ME. They also dont tick, dont carry thier terrorist member cards on them nor play thier Martyr video on thier laptops while waiting to board. Sometimes the only way you will catch a terrorist is the way he looks nervous, or sweats a certian way, or compulsivly looking at his watch or wearing bulky clothing. Does this mean that there are arnt TONS of people that innocently do these things every day? Of course not, but due to the fact that it just takes one minor overlooked sign that can get thousands of people killed, the nessesity of many false positives is absolutly unfortunate yet nessesary. Millions of Muslims travel every single year without having having people evacuate planes because they show up. There was something more to this story then the millions of non storys of Muslims that board planes daily. The fact that its a false positive is simply unfortunate. These people were given a hotel and by all accounts were treated with respect despite having to put them thru this unfortunate but nessesary ordeal.

Yes, there is a difference between this incident and others that did not occur.

A recent terrorist plot in the U.K., plus two asians speaking an asian language on a plane, plus a bunch of overly-scared passengers.

This is not a nessecary ordeal. These men did absolutely nothing illegal, or even hinting at being illegal. They wore warm clothes, going to england in the morning! Wow! They checked their watches before taking off! I check my watch all the time when I'm anticipating something.

This is rediculous. Its completely unpractical to check all these "false positives", as you so delicately call them. The incredible off-chance that a terrorist will take over a plane, despite the fact that its happened once by muslims for as long as I can remember, possibly as long as I've been alive. After 9/11, its much more likely the people on the plane would simply rush the terrorists and stop them.

To take away so many liberties from so many people on the incredible off-chance that terrorists will sneak weapons or bombs through security, get on the plane, and manage to hit an important target is simply unpractical and retarded. This preventative action crap is retarded. You know what would be an incredibly more effective way to solve this?

Station a cop on planes. Trained in martial arts, and carrying a gun. Any terrorist attempts anything, they get shot. Much more effective than falsely detaining, or prohibiting activities from, people simply because of their race or religion, or the perception that they are these things.

I would much rather take the risk of a terrorist hijacking a plane, than this abuse of personal liberties to millions of people.

I expected better from the British.
The behavior of this group has single handedly lowered the esteem of that country in my eyes.

If you don't want to fly with any Arabics then I believe you should be the one to leave the plane. The way someone looks isn't always the best indication of their personality. And may I add that if I were a terrorist my focus would be on looking as inconspicuous as possible. So... be more afraid of flying with normal looking people.

Given the statistics, those 2 arab men probably (are they? I'm not bothered to read whole story) oppresses their wifes or women. So consider this as a punishment for their primitive idiology....


right.... Maybe you should be punished for you primitive racist ideology.

Oh really, at least listen to the other half of the story before you condemn a hundred people as racists.

From what the passengers are saying it sounds like these two were playing up as a 'prank'. They were being delibarately provocative for their own amusement, and, quite frankly, I think they should have been left there for trying to play such a sick 'joke' on so many people.

This is a link from one passenger: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/5276504.stm

yeah...they've been on telly this morning...I think you are right....a prank...

but also they have highlighted a few issues as well...one of them being how easy it is to manipulate stories....

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/MMPH/240386~Cheech-And-Chong-Posters.jpg
Looks hardly like a threat to me. Sigh, ignorance and bigotry, what's the world coming to....

the pilot should of learnt form Biggles ad let them stay on and when trouble did hapen let his co pilot fly it or put on george and have both of them slug it out with the two before restraining the fellows

two Asian men are thrown off plane

In FULL FLIGHT ?? Now THERE's racism !

Seriously: with people getting scared shitless day after day by media and right wing politicians this kind of thing is going to happen more frequently. And not make the papers any more.

I expected better from the British.
The behavior of this group has single handedly lowered the esteem of that country in my eyes.

Lol, now who's being racist :p

Seriously, I've never understood why Americans (and others) have this view of the british as being... what, I don't know... all upper class, polite, snooty, well-educated, intelligent, have appalling oral hygiene...

It is annoying, and has been untrue (except the oral hygiene bit - by american standards, we don't measure up!) for decades, if ever there was any truth in it in the first place. We're a mixed society of nice and nasty, intelligent and dumb, like everywhere else.

To all the people yelling racism on this issue, heres a towel to wipe that egg off your face....."the pair had been overheard claiming they had 30 minutes left to live which led to concerns." THIS IS RACISM to stop and question these people?? Have you all lost your minds in your hurry to yell Racism at the drop of a hat? This makes you look like fools and shows your wilingness to jump to conclusions.

To all the people yelling racism on this issue, heres a towel to wipe that egg off your face....."the pair had been overheard claiming they had 30 minutes left to live which led to concerns." THIS IS RACISM to stop and question these people?? Have you all lost your minds in your hurry to yell Racism at the drop of a hat? This makes you look like fools and shows your wilingness to jump to conclusions.
I don't know... maybe because there was no mention of the pair saying anything like that in the posted article?

To all the people yelling racism on this issue, heres a towel to wipe that egg off your face....."the pair had been overheard claiming they had 30 minutes left to live which led to concerns." THIS IS RACISM to stop and question these people?? Have you all lost your minds in your hurry to yell Racism at the drop of a hat? This makes you look like fools and shows your wilingness to jump to conclusions.

Hamilay's right - nothing like that appears in the posted article, could you provide a link to your quote, please? :)

I don't know... maybe because there was no mention of the pair saying anything like that in the posted article?
As far as I heard, the people who heard the two talking couldn't even tell what language it was...even less understand what was being said.

But hey, if NSG is good for one thing, it's the amazing array of rationalisation techniques on display here.

Sorry i got this from the article that someone linked a few posts before mine so i didnt bother to reprint it. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/5276504.stm

also in same article...."She said she had heard them saying it was the last 30 minutes of their lives," said Mr Wearden

Sorry i got this from the article that someone linked a few posts before mine so i didnt bother to reprint it. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/5276504.stm

It's nation states general. Don't expect people to read the entire thread before commenting. I certainly don't. ;)

Sorry i got this from the article that someone linked a few posts before mine so i didnt bother to reprint it.
Right...hearsay.

But let's just assume that they actually said it...given that the two were ultimately cleared, it was clearly a case of racism, just as the OP said. As if you never made a joke that the plane was going to crash. Everyone has!
But if I do it, no one cares. If Mr. Arab (or a Spaniard, don't expect suburbanites to be able to tell) says it, people start getting hysterical.

I'm disgusted by the entire thing. If that woman had been on my plane, I would have shouted her pathetic arse down till she cried and her husband tried to smash me.

Racism is no better if it comes from suburban mothers than if it comes from skinheads in military boots.

I find it interesting that this article shows the racism of the posters more than it does with our airline search procedures. Its amazing how easily people scream racism at the drop of a hat and have people sueing the government and use opportunities to indict the entire US securitry system because they are upset that two guys get hassled cause they are intentionally trying to cause trouble and say " we only have 30 minutes to live"

But let's just assume that they actually said it...given that the two were ultimately cleared, it was clearly a case of racism, just as the OP said. As if you never made a joke that the plane was going to crash. Everyone has!
But if I do it, no one cares. If Mr. Arab (or a Spaniard, don't expect suburbanites to be able to tell) says it, people start getting hysterical.

That was an EXTRAORDINARY leap in logic you had there. And Rasict statement as well. Cite the fact that non white people get in more trouble for scaring people by saying we have 30 min left to live then white people do. I double dare you. Since the two were ultimatly cleared only means they were just joking and didnt ACTUALLY have 30 min to live. Does that mean they wernt guilty of scaring the crap out of innocent people with comments possibly meant to do just that?

Right...hearsay.


What's wrong with hearsay now?

Cite the fact that non white people get in more trouble for scaring people by saying we have 30 min left to live then white people do. I double dare you.
Very funny. Would it help if I told you that I have told my mother every time we went on a plane that we won't reach the destination but crash on the way?
Fact of the matter is that they were talking among themselves. They didn't get up any yell it through the plane. They weren't scaring anyone other than the people who thought it would be a good idea to listen to other people's conversations.

Tell me, do you like metal music? Because this is a lot like wearing a shirt of some metal band (with all the scary stuff they like to print on those), and having some suburbanite kick you off the bus or wherever for wearing the shirt. And afterwards they justify it by saying: "Oh, well, the shirt did have those horrible pictures on it!"

What's wrong with hearsay now?
Well, would anyone get up and say (especially to the media): "Well, I just don't like these brown people in my plane"?

This is what happened: two innocent young guys of whatever non-white background sat on a plane. Being young guys, they were cracking jokes, as they've been doing virtually for years nonstop.

Now some retard listened to their conversation, and instead of looking at them as young guys, he looked at them as "Arabz0rz!!!" And so the rumour spread that there were terrorists on the plane.

Did anyone stop for a moment and ask whether there might have been something of a mistake? No, of course not. Afterall, those guys might have been Arabs, and we all know that Arabs want to blow us up.

Very funny. Would it help if I told you that I have told my mother every time we went on a plane that we won't reach the destination but crash on the way?
Fact of the matter is that they were talking among themselves. They didn't get up any yell it through the plane. They weren't scaring anyone other than the people who thought it would be a good idea to listen to other people's conversations.

How much do you want to bet that i could go into an airport terminal and make statements to a friend and to a friend only that i could GUARENTEE would spread like wildfire without getting up and yelling it through the terminal? Im not buying that line at all.

Because this is a lot like wearing a shirt of some metal band (with all the scary stuff they like to print on those), and having some suburbanite kick you off the bus or wherever for wearing the shirt. And afterwards they justify it by saying: "Oh, well, the shirt did have those horrible pictures on it!"

No its not.

Well, would anyone get up and say (especially to the media): "Well, I just don't like these brown people in my plane"?

This is what happened: two innocent young guys of whatever non-white background sat on a plane. Being young guys, they were cracking jokes, as they've been doing virtually for years nonstop.

Now some retard listened to their conversation, and instead of looking at them as young guys, he looked at them as "Arabz0rz!!!" And so the rumour spread that there were terrorists on the plane.

Did anyone stop for a moment and ask whether there might have been something of a mistake? No, of course not. Afterall, those guys might have been Arabs, and we all know that Arabs want to blow us up.

Actually my point was virtually everything posted as evidence on nationstates, like newspaper articles, is hearsay. I don't see why being double hearsay makes it any worse or better.

And people have been arrested for joking about terrorism you know.

This is what happened: two innocent young guys of whatever non-white background sat on a plane. Being young guys, they were cracking jokes, as they've been doing virtually for years nonstop.



Then lesson #1 learned by them for the day, when your at an airport, terrorism is no joking matter. Its the same reason you dont go into a bank and submit a letter to a teller asking for all thier money as a joke.

I find it interesting that this article shows the racism of the posters more than it does with our airline search procedures.If you haven't figured out that Ny Nordland is a racist by now...:rolleyes:

Actually my point was virtually everything posted as evidence on nationstates, like newspaper articles, is hearsay. I don't see why being double hearsay makes it any worse or better.

And people have been arrested for joking about terrorism you know.Since when is joking about it being the last thirty minutes of your life about terrorism? Maybe they don't trust planes?

How much do you want to bet that i could go into an airport terminal and make statements to a friend and to a friend only that i could GUARENTEE would spread like wildfire without getting up and yelling it through the terminal?
How much do you have? Remember, it needs to be like something these guys said, eg "the pilot is probably drunk, he'll crash the plane and we'll all die".

No its not.
Yes, it is. Tell me how it is different.

The two did not talk about terrorism. They did not talk to anyone else. Nothing they did should ever have been a concern to anyone. Fact of the matter is that this the factor that made all this happen wasn't them, it was other people's unwarranted perceptions of them.

Bloody good show. Perhaps the government ought to implement from above what will be forcibly imposed from below.

How much do you want to bet that i could go into an airport terminal and make statements to a friend and to a friend only that i could GUARENTEE would spread like wildfire without getting up and yelling it through the terminal? Im not buying that line at all.Which would be irrelevant, since said incident occurred on the plane.

Since when is joking about it being the last thirty minutes of your life about terrorism? Maybe they don't trust planes?

*shrug*

It is what it is. People take 'terroristic threat' as a very broad category these days.

Its a bit rich a yank commenting on this or any issue that involves Great Britain. Its all your bloody fault the world is in such a mess anyway. You shouldnt have stitched up your old colonial master. Where were you 1914-1917 and 1939-end of 1941 sitting on the fence till the japs made your mind up for you, thats where. Selling the Brits arms/ships which bankrupt our glorious nation and making yourselves rich off our back and suffering. Then making secret deals with stalin in 1945. Churchill warned you but oh no you thought you knew best. So starts 55 years of double dealing corruption and puppet governments by both the yanks and the russians. And so here we are with the populations of the countrys that have been manipulated turning to the nutcases gladly. Then to make a bad situation worse enter G W.

Its a bit rich a yank commenting on this or any issue that involves Great Britain. Its all your bloody fault the world is in such a mess anyway. You shouldnt have stitched up your old colonial master. Where were you 1914-1917 and 1939-end of 1941 sitting on the fence till the japs made your mind up for you, thats where. Selling the Brits arms/ships which bankrupt our glorious nation and making yourselves rich off our back and suffering. Then making secret deals with stalin in 1945. Churchill warned you but oh no you thought you knew best. So starts 55 years of double dealing corruption and puppet governments by both the yanks and the russians. And so here we are with the populations of the countrys that have been manipulated turning to the nutcases gladly. Then to make a bad situation worse enter G W.
Clearly we did know best. We've got the biggest economy and the strongest military in the world. Our culture is infecting everyone else like a virus. Clearly we did what was best for ourselves. You'd have done the same if you had the opportunity.

Bush is an idiot though. Threw away Saddam, a perfectly good weapon against Iran, and handed the Iranians influence over Iraq.

i am afraid of the islamophobia that is showing lately. We are going to stir the pot even more if possible. Good job, intolerants of the world, reinforce the stereotypes, that wa they will stop hating you.

Those passengers insulted those men just based on their native language and their appearance. That's more than bias. That is racism and plain xenophobia.

What's next?, Not entering their shops?, painting "Terrorist" in the walls around their shops and houses?, forcing them to wear a "potential terrorist" bracelet? And then Deep Kimchi's dream of a "final solution for the muslim problem"?

In the 30's Germany, I am sure more than a group of passengers refused to board a train because there was a jew on it, and pointed at him and waited until the authorities removed him. seems a pretty similar situation. What a stain on the "freedom defending nations of the west"...

i am afraid of the islamophobia that is showing lately. We are going to stir the pot even more if possible. Good job, intolerants of the world, reinforce the stereotypes, that wa they will stop hating you.

Those passengers insulted those men just based on their native language and their appearance. That's more than bias. That is racism and plain xenophobia.

What's next?, Not entering their shops?, painting "Terrorist" in the walls around their shops and houses?, forcing them to wear a "potential terrorist" bracelet? And then Deep Kimchi's dream of a "final solution for the muslim problem"?

In the 30's Germany, I am sure more than a group of passengers refused to board a train because there was a jew on it, and pointed at him and waited until the authorities removed him. seems a pretty similar situation. What a stain on the "freedom defending nations of the west"...

i am afraid of the islamophobia that is showing lately. We are going to stir the pot even more if possible. Good job, intolerants of the world, reinforce the stereotypes, that wa they will stop hating you.

Those passengers insulted those men just based on their native language and their appearance. That's more than bias. That is racism and plain xenophobia.

What's next?, Not entering their shops?, painting "Terrorist" in the walls around their shops and houses?, forcing them to wear a "potential terrorist" bracelet? And then Deep Kimchi's dream of a "final solution for the muslim problem"?

In the 30's Germany, I am sure more than a group of passengers refused to board a train because there was a jew on it, and pointed at him and waited until the authorities removed him. seems a pretty similar situation. What a stain on the "freedom defending nations of the west"...


Before you kneejerk yourself into a frenzy. The men in question were on an airplane, joking about it being "the last 30 minutes of their life".

Joking like that is not permitted on aircraft, and everyone knows it.

Sounds like they were stupid jackasses, and the people around them reacted in a MOST predictable and ALLOWABLE fashion.

Even had they been Japanese Buddhist monks joking in such a fashion, I would have reported it to the captain - and I'm sure he would have taken the same action - throwing them off the plane to be searched and questioned, and then allowed to take a later flight.

David Wearden, who was returning from a nine-day holiday with his wife and three children, said the first he became aware anything unusual was happening was as the plane was due to take off and “the family in front of us just got off”.

“We were all very puzzled by what was going on. There was no announcement,” he said. The financial services lawyer said there was a feeling of “quiet unease” and children began panicking. “There wasn’t any collective action. There was no shouting or demands for those people to be taken off at all. It was very calm. Most people were still very much on the plane, but people were upset by what was going on.”

The captain then spoke to the two men and returned to the cockpit with their passports, said Mr Wearden. “We were then asked to get off the plane and go back to the airport where they did a full security check.”

It was then, he said, that his wife Susanne began talking to another passenger who said she had sat next to the two men.

“She said she had heard them saying it was the last 30 minutes of their lives,” said Mr Wearden. “It may well be that the two simply thought they were being funny, but it perhaps better explains the passenger reaction.”

And an answer to complaints that the passengers were all a bunch of racist pigs, targeting perceived Asians out of sheer racist piggishness:

He denied this reaction had been racist. “You hear about people making jokes about these things in airports and being arrested and told it is not a joking matter in the current climate. Well this was another case of that.”

At the time, he said, he had felt annoyed as he had wanted to “get home and sleep”.

“I felt that if people are going to muck around like that they should be the ones that are inconvenienced,” he said.

You still don't get it.The only reason you got anywhere in the first place was because of your colonial father who taught you and guided you through your first faltering steps. Once you could toddle it was the proverbial finger to dad and off you went in isolation. Taking any opportunity that presented itself to rob dad of his savings. If I may make another point. The chaps in question are British born so if they where to speak in there native language should that not be English??????

and as far as jews and the 30's are concerned as I have allready pointed out it took the japs to stir your moral backbone and help the persecuted people of zion

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/agedhippy/images/DoNotFeedTroll.gif

So um..how exactly did this lady understand them say "we only have 30 minutes to live" or whatever it was if they were speaking in a language "passengers took to be Arabic"? Now I could be wrong but I'm thinking this lady is pulling things out of her ass.

So um..how exactly did this lady understand them say "we only have 30 minutes to live" or whatever it was if they were speaking in a language "passengers took to be Arabic"? Now I could be wrong but I'm thinking this lady is pulling things out of her ass.
Three possibilities:

1. They said it and meant it. They were terrorists who, in accordance with standard jihadi protocol, politely interrupted their conversation in Arabic to state openly, in English, before the flight took off, that they planned to kill everyone onboard.
2. They said it and didn’t mean it. They were wiseasses who, perhaps sensing the woman’s anxiety about having to sit next to them, chose to goose her with an extraordinarily bad joke.
3. They didn’t say it. She either misheard what they said or simply invented a threat to justify her paranoia about being around them. Hearsay, in other words.

Number 1’s the least likely, but who’d want to chance it?

You still don't get it.The only reason you got anywhere in the first place was because of your colonial father who taught you and guided you through your first faltering steps. Once you could toddle it was the proverbial finger to dad and off you went in isolation. Taking any opportunity that presented itself to rob dad of his savings. If I may make another point. The chaps in question are British born so if they where to speak in there native language should that not be English??????

Hmm...maybe they grew up in an immigrant family?? My mother was born in Santo Domingo and while I was born in America and speak English as my first language, I often talk to my mother and members from that side of the family in Spanish....in public! Is it a crime to speak another language? My father often speaks in French to his brothers in public, there is no reason these "chaps" had to speak in English.

As for our colonial father, it was America who saved you in WW2, and who arguably tipped the balance in WW1. Big shit, we showed up late, we had no reason to show up earlier than we did.


and as far as jews and the 30's are concerned as I have allready pointed out it took the japs to stir your moral backbone and help the persecuted people of zion

Your right, because Britain joined the war to save the Jews...ya ok. The Holocaust wasn't public knowledge, people did not know about the concentration camps in 39 and 40 and even 41. That argument is baseless, go learn some history. Furthermore, it has absolutely nothing to do with the jist of this thread, you want to argue about America's policies over the past century and the two WW's go start your own thread.

Three possibilities:

1. They said it and meant it. They were terrorists who, in accordance with standard jihadi protocol, politely interrupted their conversation in Arabic to state openly, in English, before the flight took off, that they planned to kill everyone onboard.
2. They said it and didn’t mean it. They were wiseasses who, perhaps sensing the woman’s anxiety about having to sit next to them, chose to goose her with an extraordinarily bad joke.
3. They didn’t say it. She either misheard what they said or simply invented a threat to justify her paranoia about being around them. Hearsay, in other words.

Number 1’s the least likely, but who’d want to chance it?

I would!

Three possibilities:

1. They said it and meant it. They were terrorists who, in accordance with standard jihadi protocol, politely interrupted their conversation in Arabic to state openly, in English, before the flight took off, that they planned to kill everyone onboard.
2. They said it and didn’t mean it. They were wiseasses who, perhaps sensing the woman’s anxiety about having to sit next to them, chose to goose her with an extraordinarily bad joke.
3. They didn’t say it. She either misheard what they said or simply invented a threat to justify her paranoia about being around them. Hearsay, in other words.

Number 1’s the least likely, but who’d want to chance it?

It is the least likely, though it's the first thing that would come to my mind if I heard someone say something like that. I'm inclined to think it was probaly #3, but I'll never know the whole, true story cause I wasn't there.

I would!

I might remind you then, that on most flights, especially international ones, you get warnings all through the airport, past the ticket counter, through to the gate, and on to the plane that joking of any sort about anything that might be construed as terrorism or a threat is punishable.

Not just "we question you and you take a later flight".

Punishable.

So don't think it's too funny when you make a similar joke, and a passenger reports you, and the authorities put a rubber glove so far up your ass that you can taste the powder on the latex.

Hmm...maybe they grew up in an immigrant family?? My mother was born in Santo Domingo and while I was born in America and speak English as my first language, I often talk to my mother and members from that side of the family in Spanish....in public! Is it a crime to speak another language? My father often speaks in French to his brothers in public, there is no reason these "chaps" had to speak in English.

"This is America, speak english"

¿Recuerdas eso? a sign in an american restaurant that raised similar reactions all over your country?

That was so wrong in so many levels. Look like you "the motherland of freedom, peace and liberty" are ot giving us the right example.

I might remind you then, that on most flights, especially international ones, you get warnings all through the airport, past the ticket counter, through to the gate, and on to the plane that joking of any sort about anything that might be construed as terrorism or a threat is punishable.

Not just "we question you and you take a later flight".

Punishable.

So don't think it's too funny when you make a similar joke, and a passenger reports you, and the authorities put a rubber glove so far up your ass that you can taste the powder on the latex.
I thought your question was, if I would want to take the flight if I heard these men.

I only said I was willing to take my chances...

Tasting latex was not part of the question was it?

It appears to be a somewhat hostile response to my willingness to fly with these guys.

I thought your question was, if I would want to take the flight if I heard these men.

I only said I was willing to take my chances...

Tasting latex was not part of the question was it?

It appears to be a somewhat hostile response to my willingness to fly with these guys.

Not hostile at all.

You just seem to be someone who doesn't take anything seriously.

People like that end up on the wrong end of the stick, especially if they make jokes on a plane.

I say next time, call security on the mutineers, and leave them behind. They don't want to fly with the Asians? Fine, they can find another flight.

Edit- And no refund for their tickets, either.

Not hostile at all.

You just seem to be someone who doesn't take anything seriously.

People like that end up on the wrong end of the stick, especially if they make jokes on a plane.

I do take things seriously, still I consider the terrorist threat not so large that I will change my way of living for it. Terrorism does require us to make some minor security adjustments. Still i think we should not get emotionally attached to the subject and choose policies similar to the threat of traffic...
;)

I say next time, call security on the mutineers, and leave them behind. They don't want to fly with the Asians? Fine, they can find another flight.

Edit- And no refund for their tickets, either.

Maybe you need to read what actually happened on the plane before you say "fly with the Asians".

They were alarmed by the supposed joking about "the last 30 minutes of our life".

I don't care if you're Paris Hilton joking about that. You're leaving the plane, and getting interrogated before being allowed to fly on a later flight.

Maybe you need to read what actually happened on the plane before you say "fly with the Asians".

They were alarmed by the supposed joking about "the last 30 minutes of our life".

I don't care if you're Paris Hilton joking about that. You're leaving the plane, and getting interrogated before being allowed to fly on a later flight.

Give me a quote from the article. Maybe I'm missing something, but I read it, and found no mention of that. In addition,

A spokesman for the Civil Guard in Malaga said: "These men had aroused suspicion because of their appearance and the fact that they were speaking in a foreign language thought to be an Arabic language, and the pilot was refusing to take off until they were escorted off the plane."

Perhaps you mean this...

Worries spread after a female passenger said she had heard something that alarmed her.


Despite the fact that they were speaking in a language believed to be Arabic? If she could understand what they were saying enough to worry her, then she surely could have positively identified the language?

Give me a quote from the article. Maybe I'm missing something, but I read it, and found no mention of that.

You miss things because you only have one source of news.


Before you kneejerk yourself into a frenzy. The men in question were on an airplane, joking about it being "the last 30 minutes of their life".

Joking like that is not permitted on aircraft, and everyone knows it.

Sounds like they were stupid jackasses, and the people around them reacted in a MOST predictable and ALLOWABLE fashion.

Even had they been Japanese Buddhist monks joking in such a fashion, I would have reported it to the captain - and I'm sure he would have taken the same action - throwing them off the plane to be searched and questioned, and then allowed to take a later flight.

David Wearden, who was returning from a nine-day holiday with his wife and three children, said the first he became aware anything unusual was happening was as the plane was due to take off and “the family in front of us just got off”.

“We were all very puzzled by what was going on. There was no announcement,” he said. The financial services lawyer said there was a feeling of “quiet unease” and children began panicking. “There wasn’t any collective action. There was no shouting or demands for those people to be taken off at all. It was very calm. Most people were still very much on the plane, but people were upset by what was going on.”

The captain then spoke to the two men and returned to the cockpit with their passports, said Mr Wearden. “We were then asked to get off the plane and go back to the airport where they did a full security check.”

It was then, he said, that his wife Susanne began talking to another passenger who said she had sat next to the two men.

“She said she had heard them saying it was the last 30 minutes of their lives,” said Mr Wearden. “It may well be that the two simply thought they were being funny, but it perhaps better explains the passenger reaction.”

And an answer to complaints that the passengers were all a bunch of racist pigs, targeting perceived Asians out of sheer racist piggishness:

He denied this reaction had been racist. “You hear about people making jokes about these things in airports and being arrested and told it is not a joking matter in the current climate. Well this was another case of that.”

At the time, he said, he had felt annoyed as he had wanted to “get home and sleep”.

“I felt that if people are going to muck around like that they should be the ones that are inconvenienced,” he said.

You miss things because you only have one source of news.


Before you kneejerk yourself into a frenzy. The men in question were on an airplane, joking about it being "the last 30 minutes of their life".

Joking like that is not permitted on aircraft, and everyone knows it.

Sounds like they were stupid jackasses, and the people around them reacted in a MOST predictable and ALLOWABLE fashion.

Even had they been Japanese Buddhist monks joking in such a fashion, I would have reported it to the captain - and I'm sure he would have taken the same action - throwing them off the plane to be searched and questioned, and then allowed to take a later flight.



And an answer to complaints that the passengers were all a bunch of racist pigs, targeting perceived Asians out of sheer racist piggishness:

Mmm-hmm. Can you provide a link? And in any case, did the men admit that they were joking about that? Or is it just her word against theirs?

And who's quote is that last?

Mmm-hmm. Can you provide a link? And in any case, did the men admit that they were joking about that? Or is it just her word against theirs?

And who's quote is that last?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/5276504.stm

they are quoting David Wearden, a lawyer on the flight.

*waits for Aeson to say the BBC is lying*

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/5276504.stm

they are quoting David Wearden, a lawyer on the flight.

Well, if the reason they were taken off the flight was that they were joking about it (whichm honestly, neither article makes clear one way or the other) than I admit that is perfectly reasonable.

Although this appears to be what... triple hearsay?

Well, if the reason they were taken off the flight was that they were joking about it (whichm honestly, neither article makes clear one way or the other) than I admit that is perfectly reasonable.

Although this appears to be what... triple hearsay?

It's more than we had in the previous article. What reason do you think he would have to make up a story that "they weren't thrown off because they were Muslims, they were thrown off because they were making sick jokes about the flight and scaring people"?

Eh?

Don't you somehow, deep in your heart, believe that they are all racists, and would make up a story about how they said they had bombs and were not joking and were planning to blow everyone up? Eh?

The "asians" are British citizens and at the end of the day you have got to decide which side you are batting for. If you dont like the British way of life and view on the world you can leave freely. Fact is many of these muslim asians like the way of life and standard of living and therefore should tow the line Whatever the foreign policy. As all decisions made by the government are for the good of Britain.
Jolly japes like these should not and will not be tolerated.
As in the words of the great thrash band S.O.D Speak english or Die

By the way SAFEHAVEN under the 50 year rule documents have now been released that show that without a doubt the american government was sent information regarding concentration camps as early as 1938 so read YOUR history girl!!!

Been posted beforei like this thread better.

It's more than we had in the previous article. What reason do you think he would have to make up a story that "they weren't thrown off because they were Muslims, they were thrown off because they were making sick jokes about the flight and scaring people"?

Eh?

Don't you somehow, deep in your heart, believe that they are all racists, and would make up a story about how they said they had bombs and were not joking and were planning to blow everyone up? Eh?

I didn't say he made it up. In addition, your final question has an obvious answer. If they said that the men had bombs and were planning to blow everyone up, and after the men were searched it was revealed that they didn't have bombs, they would obviously look stupid. Saying something like that is much harder to disprove.

Which is not saying they made it up. It's merely saying that I am at this point undecided, and would like a statement either from the men themselves or from the women who heard them.

I have seen the people involved interviewed on tv. These are normal folk who understanderbley got very upset when a couple of wind up merchants turn up wearing thick clothing looking furtive speaking arabic and letting a few choice phrases out in english. I would do the same. Am i racist??? You will have to ask my sikh friend.

The "asians" are British citizens and at the end of the day you have got to decide which side you are batting for. If you dont like the British way of life and view on the world you can leave freely. Fact is many of these muslim asians like the way of life and standard of living and therefore should tow the line Whatever the foreign policy. As all decisions made by the government are for the good of Britain.
Jolly japes like these should not and will not be tolerated.
As in the words of the great thrash band S.O.D Speak english or Die

By the way SAFEHAVEN under the 50 year rule documents have now been released that show that without a doubt the american government was sent information regarding concentration camps as early as 1938 so read YOUR history girl!!!

So marley, where was Great Britain before 1939? Where was it when germany was invading checkoslovakia,or austria? Where was it during kristalnacht(sp?)? Hmm... seems it waited until the very last moment, when poland was invaded, to declare war. And then it did little to nothing until 1940 anyways, and did little in the battle of france.

I can't stand self-righteous british people, as much as I like the british in general.

Wait and see, people - before long, every plane taking off from every airport is going to be required to have at least two Asians aboard!

"Why?" you might ask?

Because only they would know how to do something about the mother*bleep*ing snakes on the mother*bleep*ing plane! That's why!

http://www.etika.com/d58f/5inr5jk-Dateien/image001.jpg

I would have laughed my ass off if they had kicked the asians off the plane and then had to deal with them mother*bleep*ing serpents!!!

Wait and see, people - before long, every plane taking off from every airport is going to be required to have at least two Asians aboard!

"Why?" you might ask?

Because only they would know how to do something about the mother*bleep*ing snakes on the mother*bleep*ing plane! That's why!

http://www.etika.com/d58f/5inr5jk-Dateien/image001.jpg

I would have laughed my ass off if they had kicked the asians off the plane and then had to deal with them mother*bleep*ing serpents!!!


Actually, the two snake experts in the movie were both white...

However, the asian did kick ass and save people.while none of the mobsters were on the plane.

I agree with your conclusion of keeping them on, however :)

The "asians" are British citizens and at the end of the day you have got to decide which side you are batting for. If you dont like the British way of life and view on the world you can leave freely. Fact is many of these muslim asians like the way of life and standard of living and therefore should tow the line Whatever the foreign policy. As all decisions made by the government are for the good of Britain.
Jolly japes like these should not and will not be tolerated.
As in the words of the great thrash band S.O.D Speak english or Die

By the way SAFEHAVEN under the 50 year rule documents have now been released that show that without a doubt the american government was sent information regarding concentration camps as early as 1938 so read YOUR history girl!!!

"You come into this country
You can't get real jobs
Boats and boats and boats of you
Go home you fuckin' slobs
Selling hot dogs on the corner
Selling papers in the street
Pushing, pulling, digging, sweating
Where you come from must be beat

[CHORUS]
You always make us wait
You're the ones we hate
You can't communicate
Speak English Or Die

You don't know what I want
You don't know what I need
Why must I repeat myself
Can't you fuckin' read?
Nice fuckin' accents
Why can't you speak like me
What's that dot on you head,
Do you use it to see??"

Yeah, such great awe inspiring lyrics

If you haven't figured out that Ny Nordland is a racist by now...:rolleyes:

If saying most arab males treat women badly is racism, so be it. When truths become racism, it's you blabbering....:cool:

My dear chellis the Czechs and the Austrians welcomed the the Nazis with open arms and I am afriad our government at the time suffered from what you yanks now call the vietnam syndrome. Indeed, we had would be collaboraters in our midst in the form of Lord Halifax. By luck and astute (devine) insight by His royal highness the king we got Churchill instead.

If saying most arab males treat women badly is racism, so be it. When truths become racism, it's you blabbering....:cool:
the evidence

si vouz plais

(and in their eyes, they treat women just fine)

And so - Ladies and Gentlemen of the Academy, this evening I'd like to present to you the single-least informed, as well as simultaneously being the single-most obtuse post made in earnest on NationStates so far this year, A.D. 2006:

Congratulations, Ny Fjordland.

:rolleyes: These stupid "jokes" are all you are capable of, right?

If you are ignorant, of course you wont be able to understand that. 90% of women are subjected to violance by their bf's or husbands in Turkey*. And Turkey is the "example" majority-muslim country, a NATO member and EU candidate. If it's the situation there, Arab countries should be even more primitive. So I stand by my remark....Now get lost...

*http://www.omct.org/pdf/vaw/publications/2003/eng_2003_09_turkey.pdf

And my dear fellow CHELLIS as far as the French are concerned (sorry I hate using the F word in public). a bunch of capitulators and collaborators. Even today no backbone never amounted to much and never will. Yellow Bellied I believe the term is. Pompous meeeeee???? never

And my dear fellow CHELLIS as far as the French are concerned (sorry I hate using the F word in public). a bunch of capitulators and collaborators. Even today no backbone never amounted to much and never will. Yellow Bellied I believe the term is. Pompous meeeeee???? never
and now you lose what little credibility you had

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/agedhippy/images/DoNotFeedTroll.gif

I hope those two men get themselves a good lawyer and get rich. A lawsuit is what that airline deserves.

FRANBERRY So Now you have read your posting and realised what a baffoon you appear and edited it. And so FRANBERRY goes offline

I have no doubt you UTRACIA enjoy the benefits of a western civillization. But its oh so cool to knock your country. Well if ya dont like it off you go to gaza and protest. Not booking the plane tickets yet?? No I didnt think so. Theres not many Knockers who put there lives at risk. its much easyier in cinncinatti isnt it!!!!!!!

I hope those two men get themselves a good lawyer and get rich. A lawsuit is what that airline deserves.
Maybe you should find out that they weren't thrown off because they were Asian.

They were thrown off for joking that this was the last 30 minutes of their life.

Joking on a plane is something they warn you not to do, under penalty of law.

DEEP KIMCHI may I say on the basis of this thread that you are obviously an enlightened individual

DEEP KIMCHI may I say on the basis of this thread that you are obviously an enlightened individual
You will change your mind soon enough.

Well Im off to bed. I really have enjoyed this banter. Much obliged to all contributers. night night

I have no doubt you UTRACIA enjoy the benefits of a western civillization. But its oh so cool to knock your country. Well if ya dont like it off you go to gaza and protest. Not booking the plane tickets yet?? No I didnt think so. Theres not many Knockers who put there lives at risk. its much easyier in cinncinatti isnt it!!!!!!!

I'm sure things are just as scary in Britain as in Cincinnati yes? And where have I said a single thing about the U.S. here? Gaza? Does that have something to do with this thread either?

Maybe you should find out that they weren't thrown off because they were Asian.

They were thrown off for joking that this was the last 30 minutes of their life.

Joking on a plane is something they warn you not to do, under penalty of law.

This is the supposed testimony of fearful, probably racist passengers who claimed they heard something. Seems they just didn't want to share a plane with the two men and let their prejudice take over.

Maybe you should find out that they weren't thrown off because they were Asian.

They were thrown off for joking that this was the last 30 minutes of their life.

Joking on a plane is something they warn you not to do, under penalty of law.

Not quite. They were thrown off the plane because other passengers refused to fly with them. Some of these passengers said that another person heard something that may have been a joke and was possibly in another language.

If you have a link other than the BBC article quoting the lawyer quoting his wife quoting some unknown woman, I would like to see it.

Not quite. They were thrown off the plane because other passengers refused to fly with them. Some of these passengers said that another person heard something that may have been a joke and was possibly in another language.

If you have a link other than the BBC article quoting the lawyer quoting his wife quoting some unknown woman, I would like to see it.

Seems like the BBC is only a good source if you're bashing the West with it, eh?

I have no doubt you UTRACIA enjoy the benefits of a western civillization. But its oh so cool to knock your country. Well if ya dont like it off you go to gaza and protest. Not booking the plane tickets yet?? No I didnt think so. Theres not many Knockers who put there lives at risk. its much easyier in cinncinatti isnt it!!!!!!!

WTF? If you don't like the west go protest in the middle east?

Seems like the BBC is only a good source if you're bashing the West with it, eh?

No.

When I was a kid, we played Telephone Tag. A person would whisper something like ''DK is full of it'' in someone's ear and that person would whisper what they heard in someone else's ear until the last person said out loud what he or she heard, so ''DK is full of it'' becomes ''the cake is really a hit''.

This is why hearsay is not allowed as evidence in court.

Maybe you should find out that they weren't thrown off because they were Asian.

They were thrown off for joking that this was the last 30 minutes of their life.

Joking on a plane is something they warn you not to do, under penalty of law.

Well, joking about terrorism, anyways. I'm sure they haven't got a problem with knock-knock jokes.

No.

When I was a kid, we played Telephone Tag. A person would whisper something like ''DK is full of it'' in someone's ear and that person would whisper what they heard in someone else's ear until the last person said out loud what he or she heard, so ''DK is full of it'' becomes ''the cake is really a hit''.

This is why hearsay is not allowed as evidence in court.

Sorry. It was enough for the pilot to request security to take them off the plane for additional screening and questioning.

No violation of the law there. A pilot has every right under the circumstances.

Also, you are not entitled to a court hearing if accused in such a manner - they have every right to question you, and delay your trip.

Here in the US, they tell you many times in the airport lobby, ticket desk, gate, and on the plane - no joking about anything that might make anyone nervous about hijacking, etc. They can put you in jail for it here.

Just say the word "bomb" on the plane, and you're going to jail.

Maybe you should find out that they weren't thrown off because they were Asian.

They were thrown off for joking that this was the last 30 minutes of their life.

Joking on a plane is something they warn you not to do, under penalty of law.

Or, you know, the Warsaw convention. So, no lawsuit there.

Sorry. It was enough for the pilot to request security to take them off the plane for additional screening and questioning.

No violation of the law there. A pilot has every right under the circumstances.

Also, you are not entitled to a court hearing if accused in such a manner - they have every right to question you, and delay your trip.

Here in the US, they tell you many times in the airport lobby, ticket desk, gate, and on the plane - no joking about anything that might make anyone nervous about hijacking, etc. They can put you in jail for it here.

Just say the word "bomb" on the plane, and you're going to jail.

Do you have a source for them joking about a bomb?

Do you have a source for them joking about a bomb?
I didn't say they were joking about a bomb. Do you even bother to read my posts?

They were joking about the flight being "the last 30 minutes of their lives".

The source is the BBC, and I already linked to it in this thread.

I didn't say they were joking about a bomb. Do you even bother to read my posts?

They were joking about the flight being "the last 30 minutes of their lives".

The source is the BBC, and I already linked to it in this thread.

For once I'm not disagreeing about something with you. The British don't tend to overreact to things like this so I've been trying to understand what made the people on the flight behave like this and I couldn't be bothered reading through 10 pages of what will undoubtedly be the same faces shouting at each other from their entrenched positions.

For once I'm not disagreeing about something with you. The British don't tend to overreact to things like this so I've been trying to understand what made the people on the flight behave like this and I couldn't be bothered reading through 10 pages of what will undoubtedly be the same faces shouting at each other from their entrenched positions.
*dances in a circle*

For once I'm not disagreeing about something with you. The British don't tend to overreact to things like this so I've been trying to understand what made the people on the flight behave like this and I couldn't be bothered reading through 10 pages of what will undoubtedly be the same faces shouting at each other from their entrenched positions.
I feel the whole "mutiny" thing might have been spin by US journalists.

Yes, people in the UK do seem rather unruffled. I thought that there was a logical explanation.

Ok I withdraw my remark about sacking the pilot but I disagree on the passangers, innocent till proven guilty is my philoshpy, being Muslim and having a beard should not promote wide spread panic

The passengers merely didnt feel safe and voted with their feet.

Some didnt board, some boarded then left. How can they be faulted for refusing to participate in a flight they did not feel safe on? Should people be forced to board and finish a flight once they have tickets whether they like it or not?

Sorry. It was enough for the pilot to request security to take them off the plane for additional screening and questioning.

No violation of the law there. A pilot has every right under the circumstances.

Also, you are not entitled to a court hearing if accused in such a manner - they have every right to question you, and delay your trip.

Here in the US, they tell you many times in the airport lobby, ticket desk, gate, and on the plane - no joking about anything that might make anyone nervous about hijacking, etc. They can put you in jail for it here.

Just say the word "bomb" on the plane, and you're going to jail.

This is like mining. You have to keep hammering and hammering and hammering until you strike brain.

There has been no indication that the pilot even knew about these comments when he made the decision. The pilot made the safest decision he could, which was smart of him. That does not prove that the men made these comments.

These comments would be illegal and would be grounds for immediate detention by security forces almost anywhere in the world. That does not prove that the men made these comments.

There is no proof these men made these comments. Am I being clear?

This is like mining. You have to keep hammering and hammering and hammering until you strike brain.

There is no proof these men made these comments. Am I being clear?

There is no need for proof they made these comments. They arnt being charged with anything therefore proof is a moot point. However having proof or otherwise, if someone reports that people are saying we have 30 min left to live they are obligated to check it out. So what exactly is the problem you have again?

There is no need for proof they made these comments. They arnt being charged with anything therefore proof is a moot point. However having proof or otherwise, if someone reports that people are saying we have 30 min left to live they are obligated to check it out. So what exactly is the problem you have again?

Amen.

There is no need for proof they made these comments. They arnt being charged with anything therefore proof is a moot point. However having proof or otherwise, if someone reports that people are saying we have 30 min left to live they are obligated to check it out. So what exactly is the problem you have again?
Here's the problems-

First-When it happens it's the reasoning is, "Oh they look asian and spoke something we think is Arabic and they look at watches." After the story comes out making the passengers look like assholes it's, "Oh yeah, I think I heard one the other passengers say it was the last 30 minutes of thier lives." Sounds like some bullshit to me, since if that was the case everyone would have been repeating that instead of the vague bullshit they did at first.

Not to mention that they could have been talking about the previous 30 minutes of thier lives going through full security checks, becuase I'd be bitching about those last 30 minutes, too.

Second, sure-okay, someone hears that, doesn't understand it and raises a point. So the two dudes go through a second check and nothing. This should be the end of it.

Third-I totally heard you saying that you where going to take this plane and crash it in to your ex-girlfriends house. You totally said that. Say you didn't. I swear I heard you say that. Are you know bumped to a later flight? I don't fucking think so. Those two shouldn't be any different...Oh, right, except they're brown...I see...

I didn't say they were joking about a bomb. Do you even bother to read my posts?

They were joking about the flight being "the last 30 minutes of their lives".

The source is the BBC, and I already linked to it in this thread.
Dear DK/Sed. Min., according to the person in the article they were joking about the flight being "the last 30 minutes of their lives".

Well, actually, I sometimes say similar things myself, as I dislike takeoffs and landings...
No reference to terrorism there, simply the (minor) threat of flying, and I joke because I am nervous. As people do when they are nervous…

Moreover, the lawyer* is not a reliable source as he may actually be one of the passengers that wanted the young guys off the plane. Rationalizing your behavior afterwards is seldom reliable is it?!

--------
*The lawyer is the source the BBC is the medium…

Here's the problems-

First-When it happens it's the reasoning is, "Oh they look asian and spoke something we think is Arabic and they look at watches." After the story comes out making the passengers look like assholes it's, "Oh yeah, I think I heard one the other passengers say it was the last 30 minutes of thier lives." Sounds like some bullshit to me, since if that was the case everyone would have been repeating that instead of the vague bullshit they did at first.

Other then the fact you pulled this fantasy scenario completly out of the air with no supporting evidence, everyone knows that when a story first breaks details are NEVER vague in media reports (:eyeroll)

Not to mention that they could have been talking about the previous 30 minutes of thier lives going through full security checks, becuase I'd be bitching about those last 30 minutes, too.

Do your legs hurt yet from walking way out of your way in your readiness to yell racism every 3 seconds? Who DOESNT know that 2 weeks after a huge terror cell is broken that security will take awhile in an airport. Reports have been of almost universal acceptance of the new procdures with passengers completly understanding the new sensativities involved.

Second, sure-okay, someone hears that, doesn't understand it and raises a point. So the two dudes go through a second check and nothing. This should be the end of it.

First of all, that second check point doesnt clear them of having potential knowledge of a terrorist attack aboard the plane. As we well know, terrorists board planes in seperate or independent grps. In addition, you dont even need weapons to cause trouble on a plane. For example look in the last 2 weeks alone, fighter planes have been dispatched to escort and diverted landings for a woman with a panic attack, another who was ranting up and down the isles etc. None of these people threatened anyone with weapons or bombs but even these minor civilian disruptions are causing military responces. So , no, that security check by definition may just not be the end of things.

Third-I totally heard you saying that you where going to take this plane and crash it in to your ex-girlfriends house. You totally said that. Say you didn't. I swear I heard you say that. Are you know bumped to a later flight? I don't fucking think so. Those two shouldn't be any different...Oh, right, except they're brown...I see...

Have you been on an airplane even once since 2001? If authorities didnt investigate someone who threatened the plane, be it exgirlfriend, bomb, and race is brown or purple or whateverthefuck id sit on the guy myself till the flight was over. Authorities investigate EVERYTHING, they cant afford not to.

Originally Posted by Ny Nordland
[...] primitive idiology....

What a load of shit

You know, if you didn't quote the crap, my ignore list could do its job properly.

There is no need for proof they made these comments. They arnt being charged with anything therefore proof is a moot point. However having proof or otherwise, if someone reports that people are saying we have 30 min left to live they are obligated to check it out. So what exactly is the problem you have again?

I have a four year old child, so I'm used to repeating myself in short words so that people understand.

The passengers refused to get on the plane. The plane was already grounded at this time, by the actions of the passengers, not the crew. This is important. Try to keep it in mind.
This was when the crew tried to find out what was going on. I assume one of the crew went to check it out, and a passenger told him or her that the two guys may have said something.

This is the first time and security person or crew member knew of the problem.
Therefore, the plane was not grounded as an official decision based on these comments.

If you want to say that these comments are the logical reason for this event, you would have to show that the security personnel or crew heard these comments, then decided to ground the plane. This did not happen. The 'comments' issue is a red herring.

I'm not sure how they do things in the UK, but here in Canada, and down in the US, if you don't get on a plane when they call boarding, or you get off before boarding ends, then they take off without you.
What's my point? Well, unless the passangers were n fact screaming "OMG ARAB TERRORIST!" or something of the sort, then they walked off of their own free will and thus the pilot should have, at least by North American regulations, taken off without them. The passangers left behind would not have had their tickets refunded or another flight booked if they willingly left the plane or refused to get on durring boarding. That pilot should be fired for being so stupid.

That pilot should be fired for being so stupid.

Im guessing he didnt feel like being blown up either.

Im guessing he didnt feel like being blown up either.


Yet, everything even mentioning him shows him as appologetic and only calling in the police to appease the other passangers who were willingly leaving the plane. Appologising to the people you're removing only after the actions of others doesn't sound like he wanted them off the plane. Seems more like he just wanted to get his job done.

Im guessing he didnt feel like being blown up either.

By what? The racism? The paranoia?

By what? The racism? The paranoia?

Did you read a newspaper in the last few weeks? Get back to me when your done.

Did you read a newspaper in the last few weeks? Get back to me when your done.

How many planes blew up in your newspaper, in mine there was a plane crash in Russia, if I am not mistaken. Still, no bombs exploding on planes...

Planes seldom crash and even this happens more often than successful terrorist attacks on planes :D

Did you read a newspaper in the last few weeks? Get back to me when your done.

They had zero proof of anything. Just some paranoid probably racist passengers who "heard" something suspicious. Refusing to fly with those foreign scary men. Looking "suspicious" because they were foreign. What happened recently is no excuse for this crap.

Well, it's nice to know that Americans aren't the only ones who act like a bunch of ignorant, childish, idiotic racist excuses for sheep.

Honestly, if I staged a mutiny because there were two black people on board, I'd be denounced as the racist I would be. And it's not like black people have never killed anyone. But hating anyone who looks the least bit Middle Eastern is in vogue right now. Because we all know that Arabs have a gene for blowing things up.

Other then the fact you pulled this fantasy scenario completly out of the air with no supporting evidence, everyone knows that when a story first breaks details are NEVER vague in media reports (:eyeroll)
My evidence is the first and second article, chuckles. And the timing.



Do your legs hurt yet from walking way out of your way in your readiness to yell racism every 3 seconds? Who DOESNT know that 2 weeks after a huge terror cell is broken that security will take awhile in an airport. Reports have been of almost universal acceptance of the new procdures with passengers completly understanding the new sensativities involved.
Do your arms hurt from all that stretching? I love the "No, your racist." bit, it's charming but makes you look a little silly.

Knowing about something and being thrilled to have to go through it are not the same thing.



First of all, that second check point doesnt clear them of having potential knowledge of a terrorist attack aboard the plane. As we well know, terrorists board planes in seperate or independent grps. In addition, you dont even need weapons to cause trouble on a plane. For example look in the last 2 weeks alone, fighter planes have been dispatched to escort and diverted landings for a woman with a panic attack, another who was ranting up and down the isles etc. None of these people threatened anyone with weapons or bombs but even these minor civilian disruptions are causing military responces. So , no, that security check by definition may just not be the end of things.
If it's another terrorist thats doing the deed then removing them doesn't do jack shit, now does it? Since they just put these two on another flight and not "Gitmo" or something else. Sorry Bob, but if all you got is the word of some old biddy about something she may have heard and a second check doesn't reveal anything you've done your job-tell the passengers they can use their tickets now if they want because the plane is a' leavin'.



Have you been on an airplane even once since 2001? If authorities didnt investigate someone who threatened the plane, be it exgirlfriend, bomb, and race is brown or purple or whateverthefuck id sit on the guy myself till the flight was over. Authorities investigate EVERYTHING, they cant afford not to.
They investigated, checked 'em twice-nothing. Plane leaves as normal-OH, wait, except they're brown. Find me stories about people refusing to get on a plane with a cracker under the same circumstances. You're breaking your back trying to defend rabid race fueled paranoia. You should send Osama a congratulations card.

This is idiocy! My God, what's next?

The passengers merely didnt feel safe and voted with their feet.

Some didnt board, some boarded then left. How can they be faulted for refusing to participate in a flight they did not feel safe on? Should people be forced to board and finish a flight once they have tickets whether they like it or not?

Now if they heard a "30 min" joke then sure, they can worry and tell the pilot, fair enough. If they are just not feeling safe becuase Asiaans are not speaking English, they can leave. Leave, not cuase panic and have the two men taken off

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/jtkwon/profiled.gif

Maybe you need to read what actually happened on the plane before you say "fly with the Asians".

They were alarmed by the supposed joking about "the last 30 minutes of our life".

I don't care if you're Paris Hilton joking about that. You're leaving the plane, and getting interrogated before being allowed to fly on a later flight.


Of course, this is alleged to have said. Add that to the fact that it was mentioned that they didn't understand the language.

More likely than not, I find it more likely that the woman heard something and in her paranoia induced mind, converted it into "less than 30 minutes to live"

People have selective memory, and often alter their recollections to best suit their desires. Often without realizing it. I know this for a fact because I had to deal with fools who would often retell stories with significant alterations to make themselves look good while castigating the other. Even in the presence of witnesses who know better.

Of course, this is alleged to have said. Add that to the fact that it was mentioned that they didn't understand the language.

More likely than not, I find it more likely that the woman heard something and in her paranoia induced mind, converted it into "less than 30 minutes to live"

People have selective memory, and often alter their recollections to best suit their desires. Often without realizing it. I know this for a fact because I had to deal with fools who would often retell stories with significant alterations to make themselves look good while castigating the other. Even in the presence of witnesses who know better.

And your conclusion is based on what evidence exactly?

And your conclusion is based on what evidence exactly?

Two bits. First, the "unknown Arabic sounding language" statement. This was later converted into "Last 30 minutes of our lives".

During the period between the two statements, the memory is far more likely to have been editted either consciously or subconsciously to what is expected as opposed to what really is remembered.

This is why if we are to get to the bottom of the matter, I suggest the witness be professionally debriefed and their testimony cross checked.

Two "Asian" men ( I guess from the sub-continent) were talking in a "strange" language at the airport gate and the other passengers (British) would not board the plane with them.

I suppose the stiff upper lip just got stiffer.....this is despicable racism. Dunno if this will be a precedent or not.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=401419&in_page_id=1770&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=NEWS&ct=5

Precisely the kind of pro-active approach that's needed today. Hopefully it will be a precedent.

Two bits. First, the "unknown Arabic sounding language" statement. This was later converted into "Last 30 minutes of our lives".

During the period between the two statements, the memory is far more likely to have been editted either consciously or subconsciously to what is expected as opposed to what really is remembered.

This is why if we are to get to the bottom of the matter, I suggest the witness be professionally debriefed and their testimony cross checked.

Id suggest you stick to psycology classes and leave the CSI to the experts.

Id suggest you stick to psycology classes and leave the CSI to the experts.

And I suggest you take a good look at how the human mind works. Are you telling me you have a perfect recollection? The kinds of people who have those are far and few in between. The more common run of humanity has a spotty memory and the mind fills those holes with correlation and guesses.

Ever driven a car with your eyes closed? What do your senses tell you? What direction do you think you're going in? A straight line? Open your eyes, and you're more likely to find that you've been drifting without knowing it. The human memory is the same. With only past data and no continuous current data to keep it fresh, the record of things degrade.

Why do you think there's cross examinations hmmm? Do you think there are perfect testimonies? That never suffer from people believing in certain events of what happened as opposed to what really happened?

By dismissing my argument outright, you are saying all that, and more. You are saying that you would place weight on a statement that has nothing to back it up beyond a 'recollection' that was not even acquired through proper investigation.

This is like that Mendez fellow whom people ended up saying he jumped the line and ran when the reality was that he never jumped the line nor ran and when the police called out to him he went to them. People gripped in their paranoia and fear, not to mention the sheer unwillingness to 'buck the line' are more than capable of editting their memories to fit the trend.

So go on, ignore my statement, pretend such things don't exist. You would only add strength to my statement.

And I suggest you take a good look at how the human mind works. Are you telling me you have a perfect recollection? The kinds of people who have those are far and few in between. The more common run of humanity has a spotty memory and the mind fills those holes with correlation and guesses.

Ever driven a car with your eyes closed? What do your senses tell you? What direction do you think you're going in? A straight line? Open your eyes, and you're more likely to find that you've been drifting without knowing it. The human memory is the same. With only past data and no continuous current data to keep it fresh, the record of things degrade.

Why do you think there's cross examinations hmmm? Do you think there are perfect testimonies? That never suffer from people believing in certain events of what happened as opposed to what really happened?

By dismissing my argument outright, you are saying all that, and more. You are saying that you would place weight on a statement that has nothing to back it up beyond a 'recollection' that was not even acquired through proper investigation.

This is like that Mendez fellow whom people ended up saying he jumped the line and ran when the reality was that he never jumped the line nor ran and when the police called out to him he went to them. People gripped in their paranoia and fear, not to mention the sheer unwillingness to 'buck the line' are more than capable of editting their memories to fit the trend.

So go on, ignore my statement, pretend such things don't exist. You would only add strength to my statement.

Im not saying that such things exist or dont exist. im saying that what you are asserting here is completly inapplicable and you look more interested in talking about peoples psycology then you are dealing with facts of the case. We frankly have NO CLUE what was said, by whom or when based on the most rudimentary of newspaper articles.. Anything beyond the most basic framework of what actually happened is pure conjecture by all of us. So psycobable aside, there simply isnt enough information for us to make any concrete conclusions let alone complex psycological analysis.

Im not saying that such things exist or dont exist. im saying that what you are asserting here is completly inapplicable

How so? Are not witness statements carefully examined for the possibility of misleading or false information? If not, then whoever is doing the investigating is not doing his/her job.


and you look more interested in talking about peoples psycology then you are dealing with facts of the case.

So far, here are the facts.

1: Two men of supposed Asian/Arab appearance boarded the plane.
2: They spoke in a language the other passengers did not understand.
3: They constituted no threat to the plane as the investigation proves.
4: One person, upon seeing them and maybe hearing something, became nervous.
5: As a result of her fears, she left the plane, and in the process, told others of her fears, prompting the exodus.

Now here are the assumptions

1: The people said something that constituted a threat to the plane and its passengers
2: The person who actually listened to them heard what they said perfectly and understood it.
3: The person is not affected by any lapses in memory or self doubt as to the veracity of her statement

Given what I have said so far, I fail to see how what I mentioned does not involve the facts of the case. We have a case of assumption not supported by factual evidence as of yet. The methods I have outlined are certainly part of common investigations for ascertaining the truth of the matter, and yet you dismiss them outright, claiming that there is no link to that and the current case.


We frankly have NO CLUE what was said, by whom or when based on the most rudimentary of newspaper articles.. Anything beyond the most basic framework of what actually happened is pure conjecture by all of us. So psycobable aside, there simply isnt enough information for us to make any concrete conclusions let alone complex psycological analysis.

I have proposed an alternate scenario which should be most certainly possible to any unbiased and competent investigation. As a result of that scenario, one would expect that the officers responsible for clearing up the matter would not only record the witness statement, but check it for inconsistencies. A course of action that I put forward.

So why do you persist in labelling a proper investigative technique as psychobabble and other terms designed to dismiss the validity of my statement? I do not know your reasons, but it seems very much so that you either do not know the value of cross examination or simply do not wish to have this avenue of investigation open as it may threaten your previously mentioned position on this matter.

How so? Are not witness statements carefully examined for the possibility of misleading or false information? If not, then whoever is doing the investigating is not doing his/her job.

The investigative facts are now irrelevant. No charges were pressed therefore Sigmund Freud will not be needed to be called apoun the witness stand to testify to the womans frame of mind. Its an unopened can of worms that will now be forever closed.

Even so, this is how i respond to your "facts and assumptions"




1: Two men of supposed Asian/Arab appearance boarded the plane.
Agreed.

2: They spoke in a language the other passengers did not understand.

Maybe. Maybe not. people who are bilingual often mix languages when talking to each other. I can easily see them talking to themselves in Arabic then when they start getting wierd looks pop off soemthing in English like gee we have 30 min to live" or whatever.

3: They constituted no threat to the plane as the investigation proves.

This is a conclusion from the investigation, not a fact that is observable prior to it.

4: One person, upon seeing them and maybe hearing something, became nervous.

maybe it was one...maybe it was 5..we dont know and none of the reports are consistent nor clear as to this fact. Ive read articles that talk about the we have 30 min to live thing, ive read other articles that dont mention that fact at all. The order sequence and content of everything that was said is very vague and unclear and not consistent even among various news reports.

5: As a result of her fears, she left the plane, and in the process, told others of her fears, prompting the exodus.

Agreed

Now here are the assumptions

1: The people said something that constituted a threat to the plane and its passengers

This is also unknown. As i have already stated, different news reports all say different things on the matter.

2: The person who actually listened to them heard what they said perfectly and understood it.

We dont have to assume this at all. In fact we have absolutly no way of knowing what was heard and how well it was understood. Refer to my point above.

3: The person is not affected by any lapses in memory or self doubt as to the veracity of her statement

Dont forget #4 The person must breath oxygen. Because every single human that breathes oxygen is also affected by lapses in memory and self doubt.

Given what I have said so far, I fail to see how what I mentioned does not involve the facts of the case. We have a case of assumption not supported by factual evidence as of yet.

You sure said a mouthful there, especially how i dont even agree with 6 of 8 of your facts and assumptions.

The British don't tend to overreact to things like this so I've been trying to understand what made the people on the flight behave like this ...

:rolleyes:

The Brits can be (and have been in the past) every bit racist as any other people.

Did anyone follow the Dutch going apeshit over 12 Indian Bohra muslims ?

http://rawstory.com/news/2006/Mystery_over_Mumbai_flight_escorted_08242006.html
Two Dutch F-16s on a training mission are diverted to escort a Northwest Airlines flight back to Schiphol, while two US sky marshals take control of the Mumbai-bound DC-10, ordering passengers to remain in their seats and not look round. The scene appeared set for high drama in the skies over the Netherlands on Wednesday, a fortnight after British intelligence uncovered a plot to blow up 10 aircraft in mid-air.

According to Northwest, the flight captain spoke of "suspicious behaviour" when contacting ground control over Germany.

All 12 were detained without charges and were denied consular access. They have all been now released without charges.

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/us-flight-air-scare-mystery-continues/19536-2.html
New Delhi: Dutch authorities will release all 12 passengers arrested on a US Northwest Airlines plane bound for India on Wednesday after concluding they were not planning an attack, officials said on Thursday.

The 12 passengers are of Indian origin.

They all have cited Mumbai localities as their home addresses. All the passengers have Indian passport.

The 12 were taken off a Northwest Airlines flight after the plane was intercepted over Germany and taken back to Amsterdam airport by Dutch F-16s.

Dutch prosecutors will decide within three days whether to press charges against them.

The name of the detained passengers are Batliwala Mohammed Iqbal, Batliwala Noor Mohammed, Memom Yusuf Hazi Gaffar, Yusuf Mohammad, Imran Mohammad, Shakeel Usman Chotani, Suhail Abdul Aziz Nijami, Ayub Qadir, Sajid Qadir, Mustafa Gulam, Ayub Khan and Mohammad Qasravi Hasan.

Minister of State for External Affairs Anand Sharma said that the Ministry of External Affairs has got in touch with the mission at The Hague.

He said: “Nobody has been arrested, but we have information that 12 people have been detained. At this point we cannot confirm how many of them carry Indian passports. But we know that all of them are born in Mumbai.”

Meanwhile two flights from Amsterdam to Mumbai have been cancelled.

The incident was not terrorism-related, the Dutch state broadcaster said on Thursday, citing the Justice Minister.

Wednesday's flight was escorted back to Schiphol Airport by Dutch fighter jets after the crew of the DC-10 became suspicious of some of the passengers, and 12 people aboard were detained.

But NOS news quoted Justice Minister Piet Hein Donner as saying there were no signs of a terrorist threat aboard the flight.

Precisely the kind of pro-active approach that's needed today. Hopefully it will be a precedent.

lol, you are funny.

On on hand your govt gives billions of dollars to Pak and they harbor and facilitate people who plan terror attacks against you and you take out your impotent rage on innocent passengers who did not committ any crime and you are talking about being "pre-active".

This is called reactive.

You know where your enemy is. And instead of taking the fight there, you are behaving with irrational fear and stupidity. If this is not reactionary, then what is?

The investigative facts are now irrelevant. No charges were pressed therefore Sigmund Freud will not be needed to be called apoun the witness stand to testify to the womans frame of mind. Its an unopened can of worms that will now be forever closed.

No charges were pressed yes, but we are left again with the openings from where simple prejudice can be used to signifiantly inconvenience people of ethnic groups. A reason I did not disclose before for my recommendation is to close the door forever to false allegations should they occur, and if they do, provide the means and evidence by which to punish the accuser.


Maybe. Maybe not. people who are bilingual often mix languages when talking to each other. I can easily see them talking to themselves in Arabic then when they start getting wierd looks pop off soemthing in English like gee we have 30 min to live" or whatever.

That is an assumption. As it stands, it would appear that the reports all indicate that they spoke in a language that the other passengers did not understand.


This is a conclusion from the investigation, not a fact that is observable prior to it.

Granted. I mention this because it is a clear fact, as opposed to the remaining unconfirmed assumptions.


maybe it was one...maybe it was 5..we dont know and none of the reports are consistent nor clear as to this fact.

To the best of my knowledge, it was one person who heard this purported 'threat' and followed up by acting in a manner that aroused the curiousity of other passengers who asked her the reasons. Reasons I might add, she disclosed. This much, is fact.


This is also unknown. As i have already stated, different news reports all say different things on the matter.


It is however, an assumption, one that appears to enjoy some popularity.


We dont have to assume this at all. In fact we have absolutly no way of knowing what was heard and how well it was understood. Refer to my point above.

Dont forget #4 The person must breath oxygen. Because every single human that breathes oxygen is also affected by lapses in memory and self doubt.

Here, you appear to be agreeing with me. I have stated that as it was, the witness statement has no real weight to it. We have no way of knowing the exact details as well as the exact progression of events for the very reason that I've been trying to say all this while. A lack of cross examination of the witness.

Until we get such an investigation, an unlikely event now, we cannot automatically assume her words have more weight than those of the defendents.


You sure said a mouthful there, especially how i dont even agree with 6 of 8 of your facts and assumptions.

And the point of this statement is?

To all the people yelling racism on this issue, heres a towel to wipe that egg off your face....."the pair had been overheard claiming they had 30 minutes left to live which led to concerns." THIS IS RACISM to stop and question these people?? Have you all lost your minds in your hurry to yell Racism at the drop of a hat? This makes you look like fools and shows your wilingness to jump to conclusions.

maybe they ment they had 30 minutes left before they leaved. I mean with their accent it might have came out sounding a little different.

lol, you are funny.

On on hand your govt gives billions of dollars to Pak and they harbor and facilitate people who plan terror attacks against you and you take out your impotent rage on innocent passengers who did not committ any crime and you are talking about being "pre-active".

This is called reactive.

You know where your enemy is. And instead of taking the fight there, you are behaving with irrational fear and stupidity. If this is not reactionary, then what is?

Unfortunately, you have a point.

The tribal area of Pakistan is a swamp that has needed draining for a hundred years. Odds are good that UBL and his henchmen are hiding somewhere in the area.

The problem is, how precisely do we get the bastard? People (primarily Donk-o-crats and their sympathizers) who proclaim "WE would have gotten UBL by now!" never say how they would have done it. Maybe they're saying, "We would have invaded Pakistan and taken him out." If so, then they're advocating taking military action on the soil of a nation whose present government is friendly to us, but which has a sizeable population of Islamo-Nazis. This course of action could end up destabilizing Musharraf, or could even result in his overthrow and replacement with an Islamo-Nazi regime that is armed with nuclear weapons.

I doubt that's what the whiners and bitchers have in mind, if they've even thought about the issue beyond looking for another stick to beat the President with.

But as for racial profiling, it is neither irrational nor stupid. What IS stupid is treating grandmothers from Minnesota, middle-aged white male accountants and babes in arms the same way as 17- to 30-year-old Muslim males.

It's damn good and time to acknowledge the elephant in the living room: young Muslim males, or young males from Muslim-dominated nations (or parts of nations) are the overwhelming majority of all terrorists on Earth today.

Ooooookaaaay...

Fact one: These two were speaking a language that the passengers did not understand.

Fact two: A woman heard, and UNDERSTOOD, a sentence they said.

GIVE ME A D!
GIVE ME A O!
GIVE ME A U!
GIVE ME A B!
GIVE ME A L!
GIVE ME A E!
GIVE ME A T!
GIVE ME A H!
GIVE ME A I!
GIVE ME A N!
GIVE ME A K!

WHAT DO YOU GET? DOUBLETHINK! DOUBLETHINK! DOUBLETHINK!

Whoever can believe that the woman both could and couldn't understand what these two innocent guys said is not only a moron, but also clinically psychotic, for being able to hold two statements that cancel each other out as being FACTS!

Face it, people. Racism and lies being used to justify it.

Quoth the poet: Only this, and nothing more.

Ooooookaaaay...

Fact one: These two were speaking a language that the passengers did not understand.

Fact two: A woman heard, and UNDERSTOOD, a sentence they said.

GIVE ME A D!
GIVE ME A O!
GIVE ME A U!
GIVE ME A B!
GIVE ME A L!
GIVE ME A E!
GIVE ME A T!
GIVE ME A H!
GIVE ME A I!
GIVE ME A N!
GIVE ME A K!

WHAT DO YOU GET? DOUBLETHINK! DOUBLETHINK! DOUBLETHINK!

Whoever can believe that the woman both could and couldn't understand what these two innocent guys said is not only a moron, but also clinically psychotic, for being able to hold two statements that cancel each other out as being FACTS!

Face it, people. Racism and lies being used to justify it.

Quoth the poet: Only this, and nothing more.

A great example of a poster that posts to an old dead thread who STILL clearly hasnt bothbered to read 95% of it.

A great example of a poster that posts to an old dead thread who STILL clearly hasnt bothbered to read 95% of it.

You have to admit that Heikoku's ignorance is a real scream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intestinal fluids
A great example of a poster that posts to an old dead thread who STILL clearly hasnt bothbered to read 95% of it.

You have to admit that Heikoku's ignorance is a real scream.

Actually, not only I did read the thread, I also pointed out the fact that, if they were talking in a "foreign language" it becomes a bit hard to claim the woman understood what they said. Juuuust a bit. Also, I notice that both of you failed to come up with anything remotely resembling a counterpoint to what I said.

Shame on you for not retorting someone as, what did you say again, DK? Oh, yes, "ignorant", as me.

Let's see here... Premise 1, I'm ignorant. Fact, neither of you could come with any remark that actually addressed my point... Ssssso... If you can't retort against someone that's ignorant, what does that say about you again?

Two "Asian" men ( I guess from the sub-continent) were talking in a "strange" language at the airport gate and the other passengers (British) would not board the plane with them.

I suppose the stiff upper lip just got stiffer.....this is despicable racism. Dunno if this will be a precedent or not.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=401419&in_page_id=1770&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=NEWS&ct=5I think that if any passanger does not want to board a plane.. he cannot be forced to board it.

A simple issue.. and a simple solution.
I do not see a problem.

Two "Asian" men ( I guess from the sub-continent) were talking in a "strange" language at the airport gate and the other passengers (British) would not board the plane with them.

I suppose the stiff upper lip just got stiffer.....this is despicable racism. Dunno if this will be a precedent or not.



Ah, the mentality of the mob: fear, prejudice and intolerance.