NationStates Jolt Archive

Not looking for the best or most poetic lyricist per say, just knowledgeable/well informed!

For me it's a toss up between Rage Against The Machine (Zack de la Rocha) and Iron Maiden (Bruce Dickinson)!

Fugazi.

Wasn't Steven Hawking in a band? I'd say it was them.

Not looking for the best or most poetic lyricist per say, just knowledgeable/well informed!

For me it's a toss up between Rage Against The Machine (Zack de la Rocha) and Iron Maiden (Bruce Dickinson)!

I'd definately go with R.A.T.M on that one! Iron Maiden??????? Wha? :p

Tom Lehrer, if he's still alive.

If not, there's a variety of debater rappers. The only one I can think of at the moment is Immortal Technique, but there are smarter ones.

Rush

west life because they made the allot of money

I'll go with Journey.

I'd definately go with R.A.T.M on that one! Iron Maiden??????? Wha? :p
He knows Tanks and shit.:p
Weezer, Rivers went to Harvard!:)

Bad Religion.

Lead Singer's got a PHD. 'Nuff said.

Bad Religion.

Lead Singer's got a PHD. 'Nuff said.
Ooh, good one...

Bruce is knowledgeable in obscure arts, sciences, literature, & history! Mythology & astrology seem to be amongst his areas of expertise!!!

Boston.

Lead guitarist was from MIT ;)

He knows Tanks and shit.:p
Weezer, Rivers went to Harvard!:)

Fair enough. :p

Carcass also, cos they possess far too much knowledge on very morbid, sick and twisted stuff. :)

REM maybe? And there's this fabulous rap group named The Coup that just drops all kinds of political and literary references in their work, while never forgetting the funk.

Bruce is knowledgeable in obscure arts, sciences, literature, & history! Mythology & astrology seem to be amongst his areas of expertise!!!

That's cool, I never knew that! He was also their best frontman. I can't stand Blaze Bayley!!!!!

The 2nd Miles Davis Quintet with Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter, Tony Williams, and Wayne Shorter.

The Thelonious Monk Quartet comes in a close second.

I'd say Tool. I like whoever said Rush, too.

Immortal Technique

I knew there had to be someone on NS who was a fan.

Modest Mouse would be up there.

Bruce is knowledgeable in obscure arts, sciences, literature, & history! Mythology & astrology seem to be amongst his areas of expertise!!!
But most importantly Tanks.:)

Fair enough.:p

Carcass also, cos they possess far too much knowledge on very morbid, sick and twisted stuff.:)
I think he was there for more than 10 years.:p

Stephen Stills, while in Crosby, Stills, Nash, & Young.

Although, Zack de la Rocha is a serious contender.

Bob Dylan

I knew there had to be someone on NS who was a fan.

Yeah, tho I haven't heard too much by him. Mostly I got exposed via debate team. A nerdly origin, but one that makes a bit of sense.

radiohead

Bruce is knowledgeable in obscure arts, sciences, literature, & history! Mythology & astrology seem to be amongst his areas of expertise!!!
He is also a top fencer.

Established the Duellist company, a supplier/manufacturer in the U.K.

radiohead
Very musically intelligent. I like, I like alot!

Dire Straits with Mark Knopfler

Russell Crowe & TOFOG. ;)

im going with "they might be giants"

Well, let's see.

There are the Sex Pistols, with John Lydon and all. There's also Rush; all three of the guys are very intelligent. Then there's Husker Du, and yeah, all three of them are very intelligent, just like with Rush.

And there's this fabulous rap group named The Coup that just drops all kinds of political and literary references in their work, while never forgetting the funk.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/19/TheCoupCoverLarge.jpg/260px-TheCoupCoverLarge.jpg

i kinda wish they'd kept this album cover

i kinda wish they'd kept this album cover
I've never seen the album cover. I just bought "Pick a Bigger Weapon" from emusic a couple of weeks ago and haven't stopped listening to it.

Queen

Brian May
May attended Hampton School and the prestigious Imperial College London Physics & Mathematics departments and had been part way through a Ph.D. programme at the Imperial College (in the physics/infrared astronomy field) there when Queen became successful, and never completed his Astronomy doctorate. He had written most of his thesis but never submitted it, although his professors claimed it was strong enough to earn him the doctorate.

Roger Taylor
While maintaining his keen interest in music, Roger decided his professional career lay in dentistry, and in 1967 moved to London to enroll at the London Hospital Medical College, but quickly grew bored and moved to London Polytechnic where he studied biology, obtaining a BSc in the subject.

John Deacon
He left as he had been accepted to study electronics at Chelsea College. (BEng. Electronic Engineering)

Freddie Mercury
The least educated one - In England, he earned a Diploma in Art and Graphic Design at Ealing Art College

im going with "they might be giants"
Nerd Rock 4tehwin ;)

How about early Genesis, speaking of nerd-rock? Peter Gabriel shoved as many literary references as he could remember into those lyrics. I don't think they went to college, though.

I'm sensing two schools of thought in this thread. One is looking at the academic qualifications of the individuals in the band, and the other is looking at the band's work, and assessing its inteligence. Personally, I'm of the latter camp.

I'm sensing two schools of thought in this thread. One is looking at the academic qualifications of the individuals in the band, and the other is looking at the band's work, and assessing its inteligence. Personally, I'm of the latter camp.


Well the OP specified well informed/knowledgeable as opposed to lyrics and such.

I'm sensing two schools of thought in this thread. One is looking at the academic qualifications of the individuals in the band, and the other is looking at the band's work, and assessing its inteligence. Personally, I'm of the latter camp.

Definitely. Not to put down Queen; I like them, but I don't see their music as all that intelligent by the definition we seem to be using.

I've never seen the album cover. I just bought "Pick a Bigger Weapon" from emusic a couple of weeks ago and haven't stopped listening to it.

it was supposed to be the cover of "party music", which was to be released in late sept of 2001. they had to delay releasing the album to get some new cover art after the first choice became in rather bad taste at that particular moment

I'm sensing two schools of thought in this thread. One is looking at the academic qualifications of the individuals in the band, and the other is looking at the band's work, and assessing its inteligence. Personally, I'm of the latter camp.
I'd have to say Queen qualifies on both counts then. Not just shmart (per post above) but a lot of literary references in their work. I mean, who else wrote a song about Kahlil Gibran?

it was supposed to be the cover of "party music", which was to be released in late sept of 2001. they had to delay releasing the album to get some new cover art after the first choice became in rather bad taste at that particular moment
Yeah, there was a case of that with a first book of poetry that had a cartoon drawing of a plane going into a building--book came out September 1, 2001. Talk about shit luck.

I'd have to say Queen qualifies on both counts then. Not just shmart (per post above) but a lot of literary references in their work. I mean, who else wrote a song about Kahlil Gibran?

Which song is that? I was going on nonsense lyrics such as those of "Bohemian Rhapsody" (still a great song), "Bicycle Race" and, uh, "Fat Bottomed Girls".

Which song is that? I was going on nonsense lyrics such as those of "Bohemian Rhapsody" (still a great song), "Bicycle Race" and, uh, "Fat Bottomed Girls".
"Bohemian Rhapsody" was inspired by Camus' L'Etranger, I believe. "The Prophet's Song." also from the "A Night at the Opera" album, was a tribute to the great Lebanese Christian poet, Kahlil Gibran. Another song from the same album, " '39," was about one downside of space travel, namely the time dialation experienced by the travelers.

I'm sensing two schools of thought in this thread. One is looking at the academic qualifications of the individuals in the band, and the other is looking at the band's work, and assessing its inteligence. Personally, I'm of the latter camp.

In my experience the two go together.

Case in point: Bad Religion. Lead Singer Greg Graffin holds a PHD. Lyrics include

"Ratiocination is a practicable way to derive
An attitude of altitude and probity by which to abide
Or maybe a theophony of flaming creosote in the sky"

or

"Since the dawn of our human family
There's been a concentrated sepsis burning in the breeze
And we turned on eachother with voracity
Desperation, forced without repreive."

It certainly shows.

Edit: OK, so my spelling sucks. That just makes me stupid.

In my experience the two go together.

Case in point: Bad Religion. Lead Singer Greg Graffin holds a PHD. Lyrics include

"Ratiocination is a practicable way to derive
An attitude of altitude and probity by which to abide
Or maybe a theophony of flaming creosote in the sky"

or

"Since the dawn of our human family
There's been a concentrated sepsis burning in the breeze
And we turned on eachother with verocity
Desperiation, forced without repreive."

It certainly shows.

I'm fairly certain those lyrics don't mean anything.

I'm fairly certain those lyrics don't mean anything.

We should probably make a difference between intelligent and "pseudo-intelligent" bands.

I'm fairly certain those lyrics don't mean anything.

Just goes to show that you neither bothered to search for the songs in context or crack open your dictionary.

The first set is reffering to moral law, and where we draw our ethical root from. Offering first a system of "ratiocination" (the act of reasoning) through which we gain a sense of "altitude and probity" (proper and ethical action" and then a system based upon a "Theophony of flaming creosote" (the false appearance of a "god" figure in the sky). It is out of the song "Beyond Electric Dreams", which is, in fact, a discussion of atheism and God.

The second set is reffering to destructive nature of humanity (the first verse in the song talks about pollution, this one about war), and pinning it on the "Voracious March of Godliness". Sepsis means "airborne pollution". I think the rest of the words ought to make sense without the need of a dictionary.

So much for psuedo-intelligent, eh?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/19/TheCoupCoverLarge.jpg/260px-TheCoupCoverLarge.jpg

i kinda wish they'd kept this album cover


Fret not, anarchist, there is always http://musicmoz.org/img/editors/newwave/album2cover.jpg]
Group X
and http://betterpropaganda.com/images/artwork/Fuck_World_Trade-Leftover_Crack_480.jpg Leftover Crack

/posting under the influence

/encyclopedic knowledge of 9/11 related CD covers, all head down

Just goes to show that you neither bothered to search for the songs in context or crack open your dictionary.

The first set is reffering to moral law, and where we draw our ethical root from. Offering first a system of "ratiocination" (the act of reasoning) through which we gain a sense of "altitude and probity" (proper and ethical action" and then a system based upon a "Theophony of flaming creosote" (the false appearance of a "god" figure in the sky). It is out of the song "Beyond Electric Dreams", which is, in fact, a discussion of atheism and God.

The second set is reffering to destructive nature of humanity (the first verse in the song talks about pollution, this one about war), and pinning it on the "Voracious March of Godliness". Sepsis means "airborne pollution". I think the rest of the words ought to make sense without the need of a dictionary.

So much for psuedo-intelligent, eh?

Why creosote?

I think this is still ruther overly pretentious. I get what it's trying to say, but there are so many better ways of saying it...

Why creosote?

I think this is still ruther overly pretentious. I get what it's trying to say, but there are so many better ways of saying it...
http://www.classicshorts.com/stories/patel.html

Mr. Orwell's opinion on the use of words, and political meaning. A damning criticism of anybody so dead set on being so damn pretentious, that it's impossible for even educated people to understand him without referring to a dictionary repeatedly.

The English language is best expressed in its natural, clear state

Why creosote?

I think this is still ruther overly pretentious. I get what it's trying to say, but there are so many better ways of saying it...

It fit the meter and rhyme scheme and it allowed them to present a broad concept in a single verse.

It's also the band's distinctive style and has been for years.

Mr. Orwell's opinion on the use of words, and political meaning. A damning criticism of anybody so dead set on being so damn pretentious, that it's impossible for even educated people to understand him without referring to a dictionary repeatedly.

The English language is best expressed in its natural, clear state

And? Orwell was a self important artistic populist. Not all art has to reach out to all people. Punk has, in many ways, made an effort to not be easily accessible.

Easily accessible art is fine for people who want their art and philosophy fed to them from a can. The people willing to make an effort for theirs are a different breed entirely. Orwell is certainly not someone I look to as a great writer of English. A skilled story-teller, and a talented parodist, yes, but I wouldn't say that he had anything akin to great skill at the actual act of crafting words. His art was great for it's content, but not for it's writing.

Was Shakespeare pretentious when he used large words, and (even more pretentious) when he made up new ones? Of course not... We credit him as a great writer.

Besides which, this thread was about intelligent bands, not what people liked in art and music.

Metallica Metallica Metallica

It fit the meter and rhyme scheme and it allowed them to present a broad concept in a single verse.

It's also the band's distinctive style and has been for years.



Creosote is their distinctive style?

I don't think the word creosote changes anything in that sentence that something that fit the meter equally well couldn't have done much, much better. It's kinda gratuitous.

Don't get me wrong, some of the other stuff works (ish), but there are similar issues throughout, where they just don't get the right metaphors for the task.

Creosote is their distinctive style?

I don't think the word creosote changes anything in that sentence that something that fit the meter equally well couldn't have done much, much better. It's kinda gratuitous.

Don't get me wrong, some of the other stuff works (ish), but there are similar issues throughout, where they just don't get the right metaphors for the task.

The use of large words in their distinctive style.

Creosote is a flamible substance which helps to craft a sense of scorn towards the supposed "Theophany" mentioned previously.

I don't agree with your opinion about the work. I find Bad Religion to be both intelligent and mentally stimulating (not like the brain cell demolishing crap being sold as "music" by mainstream groups). If that comes across as somehow pretentious to you, I suggest that you might first look into the reason that the band creates music. To make people think.

People don't think when presented with "Run, Spot, Run" set to music.

Although I dont care for thier music, the answer is definately Phish.

I believe more than one member, (possibly all of them) have PHD's in music.

Thus the "PH" in "Phish."

Carcass also, cos they possess far too much knowledge on very morbid, sick and twisted stuff. :)

Forgot about Carcass!!! Very intelligent group!!!

In my experience the two go together.

Case in point: Bad Religion. Lead Singer Greg Graffin holds a PHD. Lyrics include

"Ratiocination is a practicable way to derive
An attitude of altitude and probity by which to abide
Or maybe a theophony of flaming creosote in the sky"

or

"Since the dawn of our human family
There's been a concentrated sepsis burning in the breeze
And we turned on eachother with voracity
Desperation, forced without repreive."

It certainly shows.

Edit: OK, so my spelling sucks. That just makes me stupid.

Known of thier later stuff seems to show this intelligence, it seems like they've gone senile.

Napalm Death
Cradle of Filth (see the concept album about Elizabeth Bathory)

I'm sensing two schools of thought in this thread. One is looking at the academic qualifications of the individuals in the band, and the other is looking at the band's work, and assessing its inteligence. Personally, I'm of the latter camp.

Just caught this; I've been at work all night!!! OK, to clear this up, either or both will do, however, I really meant the latter! I was more or less wondering which bands came across as being knowledgeable, well informed, & intelligent by the lyrics they wrote! I am learning alot about their academic qualifications though (i.e. Queen) and that's a bonus I wasn't expecting!

Cradle of Filth (see the concept album about Elizabeth Bathory)

Yeah, Danny reminds me alot of Bruce in that sense; very knowledgeable on dark, obscure subjects!!!

Metallica Metallica Metallica

Creative? Perhaps! Intelligent??? Never really thought of them that way!!!

I think I'd have to pick Defiance, Ohio for this one. Just a note, intelligence in my book doesn't involve an academic education, to me it's abstract and free thought. They are one of the few bands that realize that music and life go so far beyond political messages.

I think I'd have to pick Defiance, Ohio for this one. Just a note, intelligence in my book doesn't involve an academic education, to me it's abstract and free thought. They are one of the few bands that realize that music and life go so far beyond political messages.

Damn, really? You should check out Acid Bath then! If you like abstract and free thought, you'll love Acid Bath!!!

ehh, I think I'm talking about a different type of free thought. Defiance, Ohio is a folk punk band.

ehh, I think I'm talking about a different type of free thought. Defiance, Ohio is a folk punk band.

Hmmm...Yeah, you're probably right! Acid Bath is more Pink Floyd meets Cradle of Filth!!!

Known of thier later stuff seems to show this intelligence, it seems like they've gone senile.

So Beyond Electric Dreams, and Boot Stamping on a Human Face Forever weren't both very intelligent and subtle songs?

Certainly their hits lack either the biting cynicism or the energy of their earlier music (gone too poppy since New America, IMO), but they still have tracks which express a very subtle intelligence.

Sure, it's not "Bad Religion" or "American Jesus", but it is a different kind of smart.

No one else has anything to say about Queen? :(

No one else has anything to say about Queen? :(

Uh ... I really like "Bicycle Race"?

Uh ... I really like "Bicycle Race"?
Okay :)
Did you read the post about "Bohemian Rhapsody" etc?

Okay :)
Did you read the post about "Bohemian Rhapsody" etc?

About how the lyrics were inspired by Camus? Yeah, I did. That's a great song too.

About how the lyrics were inspired by Camus? Yeah, I did. That's a great song too.
Okay, just wanted to be sure you caught that ;)

I'd have to say Monty Python band.


The Galaxy Song anyone?

I've only read about the first 35 or so posts, but I'm already noticing a tendancy to examine a musician's education more closely than you're examining how well he actually pays attention to the world around him. Rage Against the Machine, for example, might be fantastically intelligent, but they have precisely no comprehension of the world or how it works if they think Communism actually works [and they seem to]. The frontman from Bad Religion might have a PhD, but educational credentials reward diligence, not always intelligence.

That said, I'm going to have to go with the Who [specifically Peter Townshend]; since truer words concerning political revolution have ever been uttered before or sense in rock history:
There's nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the party on the left
Is now the party on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

--Pete Townshend; 'Won't Get Fooled Again', 1971

...And Warren Zevon (mind you, this was written he better part of thirty years ago):

Nuclear arms in the Middle East
Israel is attacking the Iraqis
The Syrians are mad at the Lebanese
And Baghdad does whatever she please
Looks like another threat to world peace
For the envoy

Things got hot in El Salvador
CIA got caught and couldn't do no more
He's got diplomatic immunity
He's got a lethal weapon that nobody sees
Looks like another threat to world peace
For the envoy
Send the envoy
Send the envoy

Whenever there's a crisis
The President sends his envoy in
Guns in Damascus
Woa, Jerusalem

Nuclear arms in the Middle East
Israel is attacking the Iraqis
The Syrians are mad at the Lebanese
And Baghdad do whatever she please
Looks like another threat to world peace
For the envoy
Send the envoy . . .
Send for me

--Warren Zevon, 'The Envoy'; 1980

That said, I'm going to have to go with the Who [specifically Peter Townshend]; since truer words concerning political revolution have ever been uttered before or sense in rock history:
There's nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the party on the left
Is now the party on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight


Seconded as much as possible. I just want to "take up my guitar and play"...

...And Warren Zevon
I miss Warren :(

-snip-

Agreed. This is exactly why I nominated the Sex Pistols (for John Lydon, of course), Rush, and Husker Du.

Speaking of Husker Du, Bob Mould wrote some nice lyrics for "Real World".


People talk about anarchy, and taking up a fight
I'm afraid of things like that, I lock my doors at night
I don't rape and I don't pillage other people's lives
I won't practice what you preach and I won't see through your eyes

You want to change the world by breaking rules and laws
People don't do things like that in the real world at all
You aren't a cop or a politician; you're a person, too
You can sing any song you want

...But you're still the same...


Neil Peart's lyrics for "The Trees" are excellent, as well.


There is unrest in the forest
There is trouble with the trees
For the Maples want more sunlight
And the Oaks ignore their pleas

The trouble with the Maples (and they're quite convinced they're right)
They say the Oaks are just too lofty, and they grab up all the light
But the Oaks can't help their feelings, if they like the way they're made
And they wonder why the Maples can't be happy in their shade

There is trouble in the forest
And the creatures all have fled
While the Maples scream oppression
And the Oaks just shake their heads

So, the Maples formed a union
And demanded equal rights
The Oaks are just too greedy
We will make them give us light
Now there's no more Oak oppression
For the passed a noble law

And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet
Axe
And saw...


I'd give some Pistols and PIL lyrics, but I don't have the time (and I really don't need to). :p

How is intelligence of a band/group measured?

I would vote for OutKast. A group of two popular rappers decide they want to make solo albums then puts them together as a compilation set and sells it under the group name. That's tangible intelligence.

How is intelligence of a band/group measured?


Not by making money that would mean that KISS is the most intelligent band on the planet and thats a fucking scary thought.