NationStates Jolt Archive

The mother has been arrested. In addition to making the kids eat feces, she handcuffed them to a bed, made them live in a dog kennel, and carry a dead cat around. If she is proven mentally competent and found guilty, what should her sentence be?

http://www.newsok.com/article/2832424/

http://www.kotv.com/news/?109536

Why the fuck do you people post these kind of threads?

Why the fuck do you people post these kind of threads?

He wants something we'll agree with him on. :D

They should give her to me for re-education.

How is it possible she will be found mentally competent? Isn't this the definition of insanity?

Why the fuck do you people post these kind of threads?

1. Please define "you people."
2. Many people post threads containing news.

Anyway, she should certainly lose custody of her children and serve some sort of rehabilitative prison sentence.

I don't see this woman being found mentally competent. You'd have to be crazy to do that to your children.

How is it possible she will be found mentally competent? Isn't this the definition of insanity?

Don't have the answer to your question, but there have been mothers who have murdered their children and been found mentally competent.

1. Please define "you people."
2. Many people post threads containing news.
1. The ones who post threads about child abuse.
2. Yeah, but this is just depressing.

Don't have the answer to your question, but there have been mothers who have murdered their children and been found mentally competent.
That's crazy.

She needs to go to a psyche ward.

That's crazy.
if a man murders his children we assume he is an asshole, if a woman does it we assume she is crazy, why exactly is that?


Oh, and yes someone can be legally competent and be a complete wackjob. I hope that they lock her up, and that the kids get tons of counseling and help.

That's crazy.

Just as crazy as any other form of murder.

Why the fuck do you people post these kind of threads?
Did anyone post the man tries to impregnate step daughter with syringe story?

If by some huge accident this woman is found perfectly sane (which is bullshit because a mother would have to have serious problems to do anything to harm her children) I still think she should be rehabilitated so that she can be erm….sane after all once she realises what she has done to her own children prison will be nothing compared to the punishment of prison I don’t even think we need to take the kids (as soon as she’s sane anyway) as there isn’t much point

And there is no way at all this woman can be sane and thus how can she be punished for the crime?

The mother has been arrested. In addition to making the kids eat feces, she handcuffed them to a bed, made them live in a dog kennel, and carry a dead cat around. If she is proven mentally competent and found guilty, what should her sentence be?

http://www.newsok.com/article/2832424/

http://www.kotv.com/news/?109536...

15 to 25 years... and having her tubes tied.

Why the fuck do you people post these kind of threads?
to show that there are horrible, seriously f*#ked up people out there.

if a man murders his children we assume he is an asshole, if a woman does it we assume she is crazy, why exactly is that?

because its the way western society works like if a woman gets a black eye its not because she was an idiot or accident prone oh no her husband must be an arsehole

Oh, and yes someone can be legally competent and be a complete wackjob. I hope that they lock her up, and that the kids get tons of counseling and help.

Could you ever even comprehend doing this to your children? Exactly

life without parole.

I say 10-25 years.

Why the fuck do you people post these kind of threads?


For some of us, NationStates General is our news feed for the day. Since there are so many people in so many different areas, we get a wide variety of news, and we all feel more up to date with the weird shit going on in the world.

The law doesnt care how crazy you are as long as you knew what you were doing was wrong.

If you thought you were the high priest of the great Yogurt God, and had to make all thos eunder the age of 10 eat feces as a way to attain enlightenment--they would seek to distinguish if you knew it was wrong per societal standards--if you did you are competant enough to get sent to me for re-education.

The law doesnt care how crazy you are as long as you knew what you were doing was wrong.

good thing this thread isn’t about what the law would do (also there is no fixed law for the whole Earth)

I myself think that you have to be crazy to commit certain crimes after all it takes more than a sudden decision to go out and kill someone or in this case harm your own children

because its the way western society works like if a woman gets a black eye its not because she was an idiot or accident prone oh no her husband must be an arsehole
and why is that? a man kills his whole family and they immediately assume he is just mean, and a woman does the same thing and she "must be crazy"

either women are getting a great deal, or men are getting a bad one, or you know both.



Could you ever even comprehend doing this to your children? Exactly
I can't.

I remember when I was pregnant with my youngest there were all manner of police and ambulances down the street, and on the 10 o'clock news I found out why, a man had been left alone with he and his live-in girlfriend's 3 month old child. The baby wouldn't quit crying so he put it in a pillowcase and repeatedly banged it against the wall to make it "shut up", nobody assumed he was crazy, his lawyer didn't even try to run that angle, I think you would have to be insane to do that to a baby, but apparently it's only women who get to be crazy these days.

I remember when I was pregnant with my youngest there were all manner of police and ambulances down the street, and on the 10 o'clock news I found out why, a man had been left alone with he and his live-in girlfriend's 3 month old child. The baby wouldn't quit crying so he put it in a pillowcase and repeatedly banged it against the wall to make it "shut up", nobody assumed he was crazy, his lawyer didn't even try to run that angle, I think you would have to be insane to do that to a baby, but apparently it's only women who get to be crazy these days.
:eek:

:(
poor kid...

and on the other note, males have an image of violence and women have an image of being caring.

and on the other note, males have an image of violence and women have an image of being caring.
If you put me up against my husband he would come out ahead on the caring side and me on the violent, but there is that perception that I am more caring because I am a woman.

good thing this thread isn’t about what the law would do (also there is no fixed law for the whole Earth)

I myself think that you have to be crazy to commit certain crimes after all it takes more than a sudden decision to go out and kill someone or in this case harm your own children
Crazy is not a medical condition it is slang. So I dont see your point.
Next smartass I never said the 'whole world', this happened in the States and most state law regrading competence is very similar.
Lastly your opinion on criminal motivation means absolutely nothing--since you cant even manage to use a word with a clear meaning.
The person is clearly cruel how about that?
I myself would think someone who does what she did must be cruel--
And cruel is no excuse for ones's actions in the eyes of the law, just like crazy isnt.

If you put me up against my husband he would come out ahead on the caring side and me on the violent, but there is that perception that I am more caring because I am a woman.
If it makes you feel better smunk it has been my experience women are much more cruel and insensitive to their fellow humans and i always expect the worst from them. Especially mothers.

either women are getting a great deal, or men are getting a bad one, or you know both.

its a relic from the old social structure I’d say it is a pain for both sides though (women still paying for wedding ect)

I think that's taking the organic food thing a tad too far.

Whatever the law prescribes, this isnt the sudan, we aren't anarchists.

I think that's taking the organic food thing a tad too far.
err... the ultimate in recycling?... nah...:p

Crazy is not a medical condition it is slang. So I dont see your point.

pretty much universal slang for insane though

Lastly your opinion on criminal motivation means absolutely nothing--since you cant even manage to use a word with a clear meaning.

how mature :rolleyes:

The person is clearly cruel how about that?
I myself would think someone who does what she did must be cruel--
And cruel is no excuse for ones's actions in the eyes of the law, just like crazy isnt.

human nature would stop you from doing such a cruel act and to break this natural feeling you would have to have to be mentally ill (no I'm not saying nature controls us but we have mechanisms that stop us from killing are children after all if the human race went around killing are children we'd go extinct)

OK, pay attention.

The law is not concerned with mentally ill, crazy, whatever--oh and why you say someone MUST be a certain way to do this is your opinion and not a fact so dont state it as one.

Competence is a matter of grasping right and wrong that is all the law cares about--if you knew what you were doing was wrong, you can be mad as a hatter. So stop blathering on about your fictions when the issue should be clear to anyone who knows anything about legal competance---your emotional interjection still means nothing.

Human nature---here we go with another vague concept...

OK, pay attention.

The law is not concerned with mentally ill, crazy, whatever--oh and why you say someone MUST be a certain way to do this is your opinion and not a fact so dont state it as one.

Competence is a matter of grasping right and wrong that is all the law cares about--if you knew what you were doing was wrong, you can be mad as a hatter. So stop blathering on about should be clear to anyone who knows anything about legal competance---your emotional interjection still means nothing.

If it was about "knowing right and wrong" you couldn't convict anyone of anything. Even the most intelligent philosophers haven't figured that one out yet conclusively. Try again.

If it was about "knowing right and wrong" you couldn't convict anyone of anything. Even the most intelligent philosophers haven't figured that one out yet conclusively. Try again.
it's about if you can comprehend that your actions were against the law, not some arbitrary "right and wrong" and if you are competent enough to help in your own defense should there be a trial.

That's why I said in my own original post that you can be legally sane and still a wackjob.

Not mentally responsible, to some degree (the degree depending on the legal transaction in relation to which it is employed). 232 F. Supp. 255, 257. The term may be used to signify lack of criminal responsibility, need for commitment to a mental institution, inability to transact business, inability to stand trial (i.e., unable to assist in one's own defense). See 214 A. 2d 393, 405. "In criminal law, ‘insanity,' by whatever test it may be ascertained, may be said to be that degree or quantity of mental disorder which relieves one of the criminal responsibility for his actions." 316 P. 2d 917, 919. It is a legal, not medical, standard. Compare incompetence.

http://www.answers.com/topic/insanity

If it was about "knowing right and wrong" you couldn't convict anyone of anything. Even the most intelligent philosophers haven't figured that one out yet conclusively. Try again.Actually, that's what its all about. If you are capable of telling right from wrong, you are culpable for your actions.

The law is not concerned with mentally ill, crazy, whatever--oh and why you say someone MUST be a certain way to do this is your opinion and not a fact so dont state it as one.

this is about what you think not the law after all if this was a thread about what the law is going to do the poll would be allot different

Competence is a matter of grasping right and wrong that is all the law cares about--if you knew what you were doing was wrong, you can be mad as a hatter. So stop blathering on about your fictions when the issue should be clear to anyone who knows anything about legal competance---your emotional interjection still means nothing.

ah but knowing when something is wrong in the eyes of the law is completely different to being able to do something like this shoplifting maybe but you have to be mentally sick to do such sick acts

Human nature---here we go with another vague concept...

Human nature affects human civilization on every level to a massive degree why should it be excluded from law and order?

Dead cat, eh? Now *that's* an original punishment! *takes notes*

Dead cat, eh? Now *that's* an original punishment! *takes notes*

I wonder how the cat died? (PETA is probably asking that)

I think she should be hung from a tall oak tree until dead. But that's just me...



HOW can someone be capable of such savagery to someone so innocent and small? Boggles my mind. I've never even understood howsomeone could do that to an animal either. *Shrugs*

Sick bastages.

Dead cat, eh? Now *that's* an original punishment! *takes notes*


Nothing like being hit with a dead pussy.

I wonder how the cat died? (PETA is probably asking that)
Probably the only thing PETA is offended about in this whole case...

Nothing like being hit with a dead pussy.

*Ba-dum Chik*

I wonder how the cat died? (PETA is probably asking that)

Probably pulled it from a dumpster after one of their employees dumped it.


:D

People can beat their children, neglect them, and abuse them in myriad ways, but you guys don't think they're crazy til they do something really fucking weird?

People can beat their children, neglect them, and abuse them in myriad ways, but you guys don't think they're crazy til they do something really fucking weird?
that's not fair, I think anyone who beats, neglects, and abuses (in every sense of the word) their children are crazy. :(

I wonder how the cat died? (PETA is probably asking that)
Yeah forget about the children... we're more concerned about that poor helpless kitty! :p

Anybody notice the name of the town. "Broken Arrow"?

Are there towns in the US with names like EMPTY QUIVER, FADED GIANT, DULL SWORD or NUCFLASH?

Checked with Google Maps - don't seem to be.

that's not fair, I think anyone who beats, neglects, and abuses (in every sense of the word) their children are crazy. :(

No kidding. My fiance..umm..suffered through a LOT of that stuff as a child growing up in rat poor costa rica.

Depressing stuff. :(

Someone needs to come back from crazy town...:rolleyes:
She should totally be locked up and put through rehab.

She may be called crazy but I doubt she's mentally incompetant. Simply a sadist who enjoys making others suffer. These people are the kind who should always go to jail for a long time, those who understand what they are doing is wrong but they just don't care.

Anybody notice the name of the town. "Broken Arrow"
I have family in Broken Arrow, also in Broken Bow, Slapout, Slaughterville and Nowatta Oklahoma. There are all kinds of weird towns around here.

1. The ones who post threads about child abuse.
2. Yeah, but this is just depressing.

There are many threads I find depressing so I don't read them. I'm sorry if I upset you, but child abuse is a very unfortunate fact of life.

I have family in Broken Arrow, also in Broken Bow, Slapout, Slaughterville and Nowatta Oklahoma. There are all kinds of weird towns around here.
Nice names. I'm assuming they were named after the clearing out of the Indians who used to live there...

The law doesnt care how crazy you are as long as you knew what you were doing was wrong.

And you can participate in your own defense.

I have family in Broken Arrow, also in Broken Bow, Slapout, Slaughterville and Nowatta Oklahoma. There are all kinds of weird towns around here.

I prefer the more simple names like Pueblo, Colorado. Living in a town named "town"?

If you put me up against my husband he would come out ahead on the caring side and me on the violent, but there is that perception that I am more caring because I am a woman.

***scratches Sum of the list of possible future spouses in the event of her present spouses demise***:p

I wonder how the cat died? (PETA is probably asking that)

Could be the thirty something dogs she had might have had something to do with the demise of the feline.

Yeah forget about the children... we're more concerned about that poor helpless kitty! :p

:mad:

Could be the thirty something dogs she had might have had something to do with the demise of the feline.

Aw, poor kitty. It dies a horrible death just so some crazy lady could make her daughters carry it around when she got mad. :mad:

PETA would probably only be PO'd at that becase the 37 dogs killed it before they could euthanize it illegally. But then again, they'll probably wind up euthanizing the dogs anyway...

That lady is a cruel, sadistic woman that should not have been allowed to breed in the first place.

Anybody notice the name of the town. "Broken Arrow"?

Are there towns in the US with names like EMPTY QUIVER, FADED GIANT, DULL SWORD or NUCFLASH?

Checked with Google Maps - don't seem to be.

Check again my friend. I happen to work there. Check this out

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Broken+Arrow%2C+Oklahoma&btnG=Google+Search

or this for the map http://maps.google.com/maps?oi=map&q=Broken+Arrow,+OK

I have family in Broken Arrow, also in Broken Bow, Slapout, Slaughterville and Nowatta Oklahoma. There are all kinds of weird towns around here.

Yes there are. I live in Owasso (End of the trail) and work in Broken Arrow, both are suburbs of Tulsa.

The mother has been arrested. In addition to making the kids eat feces, she handcuffed them to a bed, made them live in a dog kennel, and carry a dead cat around. If she is proven mentally competent and found guilty, what should her sentence be?

http://www.newsok.com/article/2832424/

http://www.kotv.com/news/?109536

This is one of the very few threads where I wouldn't bohther to read the responces and just say what I think. Which is; if what she is accused of is even remotely true, I really don't care what dark corner of the torture universe she disapears into. I have zero tolerance for people who treat children this way.

Nice names. I'm assuming they were named after the clearing out of the Indians who used to live there...

More likely named by the Indians (Native Americans) that still live here. :rolleyes:

That lady is a cruel, sadistic woman that should not have been allowed to breed in the first place.

Amen.

More likely named by the Indians (Native Americans) that still live here. :rolleyes:
:confused: Broken Bow? Meh, doesn't sound like something an Indian would name a town...

:confused: Broken Bow? Meh, doesn't sound like something an Indian would name a town...

Before you make such a statement you should check out the history of towns in Oklahoma such as Broken Arrow, Broken Bow, Owasso, etc.

Before you make such a statement you should check out the history of towns in Oklahoma such as Broken Arrow, Broken Bow, Owasso, etc.
What's with all the hostility?

What's with all the hostility?

No hostility at all. :fluffle: You made an unfounded statement about how cities in Oklahoma were named. All I said is you should check out the history before making such unfounded statements.

The mother has been arrested. In addition to making the kids eat feces, she handcuffed them to a bed, made them live in a dog kennel, and carry a dead cat around. If she is proven mentally competent and found guilty, what should her sentence be?

http://www.newsok.com/article/2832424/

http://www.kotv.com/news/?109536


Some mothers wash out their children's mouth with soap for swearing. I assume this mother felt her kids weren't swearing enough...?

Life in prison and forced to eat feces three times daily.

How is it possible she will be found mentally competent? Isn't this the definition of insanity?

Seconded. Methinks this scenario is a non-issue seeing that there is no way a sane person would do such a thing...

I think she should be hung from a tall oak tree until dead. But that's just me...



HOW can someone be capable of such savagery to someone so innocent and small? Boggles my mind. I've never even understood howsomeone could do that to an animal either. *Shrugs*

Sick bastages.
She'd kill the poor Oak tree just by being there. Making her eat the Diseased ridden Feces sounds more logical.

People like that are just horrible, what a waste on the world, and her children will be screwed up forever.

How is it possible she will be found mentally competent? Isn't this the definition of insanity?
Not really. The legal definition of insanity is based on whether the person knew at the time they were doing wrong (McNaughton rule).
So if she knew that making her kids eat shit was bad, she isn't legally crazy.



That's why they found Jeffrey Dahmer wasn't crazy, even though he definitely was totally batshit, crazier-than-a-box-of-badgers insane.
The fact he lied to the police when they found him wielding a knife and chasing a naked bleeding guy down the street proved he knew he was doing wrong.
The fact the police believed his story about about a "lover's tiff" showed they were either totally incompetent, lazy or he was the world's best actor.

Anyway, she should certainly lose custody of her children and serve some sort of rehabilitative prison sentence.


There is no longer any such thing as "rehabilitative prison sentences".
If there ever was.

Yes there are. I live in Owasso (End of the trail) and work in Broken Arrow, both are suburbs of Tulsa.
I have a cousin in Bartlesville that drives into Tulsa everyday to work, and then a few that live in Bixby but work in Catoosa. I guess I don't get it, if you live in a town you should just work there, all the driving annoys me (says the girl who lives in Edmond, but does all her business in OKC)

Incidently, did anyone on this board read the article?
Specifically the posters who are raging about how insane, sadistic and nasty the woman is?

Cause if they did read it, they might have noticed that the mother has yet to be charged with anything and that the girls show "no obvious signs of physical abuse".

In other words, it's all based on what the two kids have said.

Here's an idea: Maybe they were making shit up (excuse the pun), perhaps to get at their mother for something. Like the fact they're seperated from their father.

Who knows?

Until the authorities find out exactly, let's not jump to wild conclusions and make critical comments about this woman.



37 dogs is a lot though.
Then again an old guy on the island I live on has 9 medium sized dogs and lives with his wife in a 500 sq foot 1st floor flat (thus no outside area). The dogs all sleep inside he told me. And they're all pretty healthy-looking. The smell in Summer must be pretty rank inside their place, one would imagine.

This woman has a much larger house and, from the photo, a big outside area. So she might just be able to get away with keeping that many dogs (though the cost of feeding them must be astronomical).

I have family in Broken Arrow, also in Broken Bow, Slapout, Slaughterville and Nowatta Oklahoma. There are all kinds of weird towns around here.
The strangest placename I've come across is this one:
http://www.cse.unr.edu/~olenders/Broomrape%20Lane.png
Broomrape, Arizona (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=200+broomrape+lane,+lake+havasu+city,+arizona&ll=34.471715,-114.335618&spn=0.01539,0.054245&om=1)

37 dogs is a lot though.
Then again an old guy on the island I live on has 9 medium sized dogs and lives with his wife in a 500 sq foot 1st floor flat (thus no outside area). The dogs all sleep inside he told me. And they're all pretty healthy-looking. The smell in Summer must be pretty rank inside their place, one would imagine.

.

9 dogs wouldnt be a problem smell-wise, if you keep your animals clean.
A dog with a clean coat doesnt stink.

Especially if all 9 dogs are house-trained, the only concern would be all that damn shedding you'd have to deal with.
Even with three dogs, you still get a LOT of shedding...

I can only imagine having 37......

The strangest placename I've come across is this one:
http://www.cse.unr.edu/~olenders/Broomrape%20Lane.png
Broomrape, Arizona (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=200+broomrape+lane,+lake+havasu+city,+arizona&ll=34.471715,-114.335618&spn=0.01539,0.054245&om=1)


Whore, MI.

Hell, MI.

The strangest placename I've come across is this one:

Broomrape, Arizona (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=200+broomrape+lane,+lake+havasu+city,+arizona&ll=34.471715,-114.335618&spn=0.01539,0.054245&om=1)
I used to have a friend when I lived in AZ that lived up on a mountain on a street called "Silly Mountain Road"

:p I didn't find the road to be silly, mostly just bumpy.

Then there was "A" mountain (which has a big A on it) I remember trying to explain to my husband where the fireworks would be (we had just moved there a week prior to July 4th)

"Did you know they don't do fireworks here?"
"yes they do, I heard on the news they were doing them on A mountain"
"which mountain? there are all kinds of mountains we live in the fricken valley"
"A mountian"
"which mountain?!"
:headbang: :D

Nice names. I'm assuming they were named after the clearing out of the Indians who used to live there...
actually quite a few still live here, some of them never left. Most of the names of towns around here were named by the Native Americans who lived here IIRC.

...

15 to 25 years... and having her tubes tied.


Yeah, burnt and tied.

I went on instinct and voted DEATH but I didn't see this...500 years in jail and meals of feces. I'd like to change my vote, please!!!

whats so wrong with it

because you find it to be gross. it could of been conducted in a hygenic way.

should parents be arrested for feeding their children fungus or bacteria?

im joking

A search warrant executed by police Wednesday revealed pink handcuffs, zip ties and drug paraphernalia, including used needles and marijuana pipes.

What the fuck does the presence of pink handcuffs have to do with anything?

Are people still trying to send out the kinky sex = evil message?

How can anyone eat human shit hygienically? Or was it human feces? I figured it was since they also were caged up. Human shit or animal shit... still wrong.

death

I don't see this woman being found mentally competent. You'd have to be crazy to do that to your children.

Evil and mentally competent are not mutually exclusive.

Cause if they did read it, they might have noticed that the mother has yet to be charged with anything and that the girls show "no obvious signs of physical abuse".

Did you read the second article or only the first? http://www.kotv.com/news/?109536
The mother has been arrested. Evidence was found inside the home that supports the alligations. The kids were removed from the home by DHS several days before the arrest. The first article was written after the children were removed from the home and before the arrest.

Scaphism for her!

Assuming that the charges are proved this woman is looking at two counts of severe child abuse at the least, on a more human level though I would prefer she be locked up for the rest of her natural life so she can never do those poor girls any more harm.

Whore, MI.

Hell, MI.
hell, norway

death
what are you talking about no crimes warrant death.

what are you talking about no crimes warrant death.

Wait... so we SHOULDN'T have given Timothy McVeigh the death penalty?

Wait... so we SHOULDN'T have given Timothy McVeigh the death penalty?
Nope.
A life sentence would be better (worse?) for him and keeps him out of our hair just as easily.
Cheaper too. Really.

I would get this woman some counseling and some jail time along with probation afterward.So i chose other.

Did I read there were 37 dogs in the house?

If the allegations are true, its absolutely horrendous. I dont know what this woman should get if found guilty of crimes.
The simple fact her children cohabitated with 37 dogs concerns me-there is no way they are maintaining safe or sanitary conditions with that # of dogs inside.

Either way-wether prison or a mental institution-this woman doesnt need to spend any more time with her children OR her dogs.

What the fuck does the presence of pink handcuffs have to do with anything?

Are people still trying to send out the kinky sex = evil message?
Perhaps it is because they were pink? I mean, that's a GIRL color! Clearly evil.

That lady is a cruel, sadistic woman that should not have been allowed to breed in the first place.
Imagine the kind of man who decided to have sex with her, and then to abandon his child(ren) to her care.

Life in a mental hospital. She's clearly crazy.