NationStates Jolt Archive

You know, a virus that causes sterility. Only a madman would do such a thing, eh?

http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/GEessays/killervirus.html

Ron Jackson of CSIRO's wildlife division and Ian Ramshaw at
the Australian National University, both in Canberra, inserted
into a mousepox virus a gene that creates large amounts of
interleukin 4. IL-4 is a molecule that occurs naturally in the
body. As part of a study aimed at creating a contraceptive
vaccine, they were trying to stimulate antibodies against
mouse eggs, which would make the animals infertile.

I'm rather surprised that the Australians, in a civilian university, would be trying to make a virus that deliberately causes sterility. And so many of you thought that only Kimchi (or Americans) would be so stupid or callous.

Turns out the virus was worse than they thought.

A virus that kills every one of its victims, by wiping out part of
their immune system, has been accidentally created by an
Australian research team. The virus, a modified mousepox,
does not affect humans, but it is closely related to smallpox,
raising fears that the technology could be used in biowarfare.

next,we'll get to hear how lab animals are unnacounted for or samples are missing.

I've read about it somewhere. The Aussies wanted to use it against the Cane Toads.

You know, a virus that causes sterility. Only a madman would do such a thing, eh?

http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/GEessays/killervirus.html



I'm rather surprised that the Australians, in a civilian university, would be trying to make a virus that deliberately causes sterility. And so many of you thought that only Kimchi (or Americans) would be so stupid or callous.

Turns out the virus was worse than they thought.
Typical Kimchi bullshit - trying to disguise his own bias, prejudice and bigotry by comparing his idea of covertly sterilizing all Muslims with a magically tailored virus (since Muslim is not a race) to the actions of a bunch of well meaning scientists who were trying to create a better contraceptive.

I'm laughing, because people tell me that no one would work on such a thing.

Virally induced sterility.

And a civilian university! Not even a super-secret government project run by the US...

Typical Kimchi bullshit - trying to disguise his own bias, prejudice and bigotry by comparing his idea of covertly sterilizing all Muslims with a magically tailored virus (since Muslim is not a race) to the actions of a bunch of well meaning scientists who were trying to create a better contraceptive.

Virally induced sterility sounds like a biological weapon to me.

It doesn't remotely sound like voluntary contraception.

How else are we going to get rid of mosquitoes and cockroaches?!

*looks down*

My testicles have receeded slightly.

Try reading the quotes you posted.
That's what they thought they were trying to create.

Mind you, we all seem to know how a virus doesn't seem to stay put.

It almost seems irresponsible to experiment with something that can be transmitted.

Mousepox, for example, is transmissible from mouse to mouse. Got any problem with that?

How many people here on this forum have a problem with a transmissible virus that causes sterility?

*looks down*

My testicles have receeded slightly.
And you thought I was crazy....

Sounds like a couple of Australians are crazier than I am.

I've read about it somewhere. The Aussies wanted to use it against the Cane Toads.
Damn those cane toads...

Damn those cane toads...
This just in...

CANE TOADS BRING ABOUT END OF THE WORLD FOR HUMANS


film at 11...

And you thought I was crazy....

Sounds like a couple of Australians are crazier than I am.

To be honest, your apparent glee at the manufacture of this virus, and your repetitive ranting about how 'we thought you were crazy' is a little unsettling.

Especially when coupled with your support of genocide.

To be honest, your apparent glee at the manufacture of this virus, and your repetitive ranting about how 'we thought you were crazy' is a little unsettling.

Especially when coupled with your support of genocide.
Hey, I'm not the one doing the work. And I'm not financing it either.

Some stupid Australians are.

That's just hilarious. I'm waiting now for the castigation of the Australian government for allowing this sort of genetic manipulation in order to create virally induced sterility.

That's what they thought they were trying to create.

Mind you, we all seem to know how a virus doesn't seem to stay put.

It almost seems irresponsible to experiment with something that can be transmitted.

Mousepox, for example, is transmissible from mouse to mouse. Got any problem with that?

How many people here on this forum have a problem with a transmissible virus that causes sterility?
So you're saying we should say goodbye to modern biology because of the transmissible nature of pathogens. Right. Nothing would be known about pathology, nothing, without experiments on live samples. Transmissible samples.

Also, there's a slight difference between a virus that can sterilise a mouse but not a human and a virus that ethnically cleanses as it goes. Stop being a luddite.

So you're saying we should say goodbye to modern biology because of the transmissible nature of pathogens. Right. Nothing would be known about pathology, nothing, without experiments on live samples. Transmissible samples.

Also, there's a slight difference between a virus that can sterilise a mouse but not a human and a virus that ethnically cleanses as it goes. Stop being a luddite.

The ability to do this seems remarkably simple. Want to bet how long it takes someone with a graduate degree in genetics to replicate the experiment with other viral pathogens?

The ability to do this seems remarkably simple. Want to bet how long it takes someone with a graduate degree in genetics to replicate the experiment with other viral pathogens?
To truly ethnically cleanse by this method, you would have to find an allele, relating to survival and procreation, which is 100% present in the target population and 0% present in non-target populations. I'm aware that certain populations are more prone to homozygous genetic diseases e.g. the Ashkenazi Jewish population, but they do not have any alleles which are completely specific to themselves. Not only would the cleansing fail to finish the job, it would probably kill a fair few people who were "innocent" in the eyes of the cleansers.

And remarkably simple? There are no remarkably simple genetic engineering techniques, or at least they don't produce even low yields. Genetic engineering in a bioterrorist lab is virtually out of the question.

Ethnically-targeted bio-weapons will never work, for the simple reason that for hundreds of thousands of years, men have been willing to fuck just about anything if they're sufficiently intoxicated.

I think the world should pause for a moment and thank the young male for rendering the threat of genetically-targeted racist bioweapons *ahem* impotent. :D

That's what they thought they were trying to create.

Mind you, we all seem to know how a virus doesn't seem to stay put.

It almost seems irresponsible to experiment with something that can be transmitted.

Mousepox, for example, is transmissible from mouse to mouse. Got any problem with that?

How many people here on this forum have a problem with a transmissible virus that causes sterility?
Condoms cause 'sterility', and get 'transmitted' about all the time.

They're just working on a contraceptive, for crying out loud. Why must everything always be 'the end of the world as we know it' with you?

Why not just make mumps?

so many of you thought that only Kimchi (or Americans) would be so stupid or callous.

You know, I think you overrate your perceived importance on this forum with this strawman.

This just in...

CANE TOADS BRING ABOUT END OF THE WORLD FOR HUMANS


film at 11...

First there were Snakes On A Plane now theres....


TOADS ON A CANE

THIS TIME THERE GOING FOR OUR BALLS

Yea. This is as good as the people in france all wanting to wear combat boots thing.

It's not like they were actually working towards this goal. And it doesn't cause sterility in humans.

The whole idea of genetically mutilated viruses is creepy, with the possible exception of making the virus itself sterile or kill itself.

The whole idea of genetically mutilated viruses is creepy, with the possible exception of making the virus itself sterile or kill itself.

I'd imagine that a 'sterile' virus is not a virus. And would therefore have killed itself.

Still, creepy shit. People should not fuck with this crap. Don't they watch bad made for TV movies*.

*apparently not given that people think snakes on a plane is an original idea.

The whole idea of genetically mutilated viruses is creepy, with the possible exception of making the virus itself sterile or kill itself.
The idea you propose is similar to reassortment - whereby two different strains infect the same cell and 'swap' genetic information in order to change genome. Reassortment doesn't necessarily involve a genetically engineered strain, but it could. It's how influenza vaccines are created and, incidentally, how pandemic strains often occur (because of the rapid change in protein expression of the virus and, hence, immune response to it).

I don't see how you could actually make a viral species sterile though, considering they don't actually mate with each other and the gene(s) would have no chance to spread through the population.

@WDGann - I don't know about the analogy of the French obsession with combat boots, but the idea that science for science's sake is wrong doesn't sit well with me. Just because something appears to be of no purpose now does not rob it of worth, and sometimes so-called 'bad science' can benefit mankind in other ways.

@WDGann - I don't know about the analogy of the French obsession with combat boots, but the idea that science for science's sake is wrong doesn't sit well with me. Just because something appears to be of no purpose now does not rob it of worth, and sometimes so-called 'bad science' can benefit mankind in other ways.

Quite.

I was just being flip. There really is no such thing as abstract knowledge. (Well, maybe art criticism).

Tho' some things should have oversight. (Not in a xtian don't meddle with god way, but in a OMFG that's dangerous way).

You know, a virus that causes sterility. Only a madman would do such a thing, eh?
I don't blame the Aussies. They have huge problems with infestations of foreign animals.

This shit doesn't work on humans. Your "sterilise a billion people" flamebaits are getting tiresome now. The novelty is gone.

Ethnically-targeted bio-weapons will never work, for the simple reason that for hundreds of thousands of years, men have been willing to fuck just about anything if they're sufficiently intoxicated.

There's the beauty of it! Muslims don't drink!

That's what they thought they were trying to create.

Mind you, we all seem to know how a virus doesn't seem to stay put.

It almost seems irresponsible to experiment with something that can be transmitted.

Mousepox, for example, is transmissible from mouse to mouse. Got any problem with that?

How many people here on this forum have a problem with a transmissible virus that causes sterility?

I do!

You know, they were trying to sterilize MICE.
Nowhere in the article does it say that they had any plans of making a human sterility virus.

There's the beauty of it! Muslims don't drink!
You wanna bet? The Iranian vodka man who used to live upstairs from one place I lived, would probably disagree with you.

We have great problems with introduced animal species (rabbits, cane toads, foxes, etc) destroying the native flora & fauna in Australia. Scientists in Australia have been working for decades to try to eradicate these pests.

Hey, I'm not the one doing the work. And I'm not financing it either.

Some stupid Australians are.

That's just hilarious. I'm waiting now for the castigation of the Australian government for allowing this sort of genetic manipulation in order to create virally induced sterility.

Obviously they're not stupid, because they've worked out how to do it.

The idea is to destroy the populations of feral animals that are causing immense damage to Australia's ecosystem & economy, not to selectively sterilise human racial types.

Why not just make mumps?

Why make mumps when you can make super-aids that infects anyone who's ever had pre-marital sex?

It's part of the new plan to enforce abstinence only education.

Virally induced sterility sounds like a biological weapon to me.

It doesn't remotely sound like voluntary contraception.

On the contrary, A form of permanent otherwise harmless contraception could eliminate the need for surgeries like vasectomies and historectomies. If they could also at the same time find a way to reverse the process, it would make an excellent form of birth control for younger people; Get a shot to turn the bun factory off, get another one later to turn it back on.

SOunds fascinating.

On the other hand, it also sounds like the ultimate untraceable biological weapon. Just imagine how long it would take for a country to realize it was infected. Pretty frightening.

How many people here on this forum have a problem with a transmissible virus that causes sterility?
A poll (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=496536) revealed that everyone opposes it.

A poll (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=496536) revealed that everyone opposes it.

The poll used the word People. When you replace that with another word, the result will become more inconclusive.

In order to make an omelete you gotta break some eggs. Eggs. Reproduction. Pun. Get it?

*Gives up*

A poll (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=496536) revealed that everyone opposes it.

Not quite. The poll revealed that the large majority felt it was immoral, which is not the same thing.

Not to mention the seven people who said it was moral under certain conditions.

You know, a virus that causes sterility. Only a madman would do such a thing, eh?

http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/GEessays/killervirus.html



I'm rather surprised that the Australians, in a civilian university, would be trying to make a virus that deliberately causes sterility. And so many of you thought that only Kimchi (or Americans) would be so stupid or callous.

Stupid? Callous? I think it's AWESOME! If there were a virus that would simply cause sterility, without killing me off or giving me boils or nothin', I would wait in line to be infected with it! That beats the hell out of having invasive abdominal surgery or paying for birth control for the rest of my life.

next,we'll get to hear how lab animals are unnacounted for or samples are missing.
No, this is rather old news. The great thing about it is it raises the prospect of engineering a super smallpox against which there is no defense.

No, this is rather old news. The great thing about it is it raises the prospect of engineering a super smallpox against which there is no defense.

Hooray! :eek:

Hooray! :eek:
The only hard part is getting a hold of some smallpox. The kit to insert IL4 into it is available to anyone with some spare cash.

The only hard part is getting a hold of some smallpox. The kit to insert IL4 into it is available to anyone with some spare cash.

Can we use chicken pox instead?

Stupid? Callous? I think it's AWESOME! If there were a virus that would simply cause sterility, without killing me off or giving me boils or nothin', I would wait in line to be infected with it! That beats the hell out of having invasive abdominal surgery or paying for birth control for the rest of my life.
The neat part is that a virus doesn't stay just in your body. It's likely to spread to everyone else.

The only hard part is getting a hold of some smallpox. The kit to insert IL4 into it is available to anyone with some spare cash.
Aside from the fact it's incredibly low yield when done correctly, you'd have to have ultimate sterile conditions to achieve it properly. One other, slightly more infectious pathogen affects your culture and the reassortment won't come to fruition. It would take a full blown rogue state with the biotechnical capabilities to do that, and no such state would risk it against a nuclear state for fear of massive repercussions. Can you imagine if, say, NK did it to the US? NK'd be a smouldering crater within a week. It's stalemate once more.

Also, @ Kimchi - if Bottle's virus for sterility was created with the purpose of sterilising only one person, the creators wouldn't make it transmissible by anything obvious e.g. airborne, waterborne, sexual transmission etc. That would just be pure stupidity.

Aside from the fact it's incredibly low yield when done correctly, you'd have to have ultimate sterile conditions to achieve it properly. One other, slightly more infectious pathogen affects your culture and the reassortment won't come to fruition. It would take a full blown rogue state with the biotechnical capabilities to do that, and no such state would risk it against a nuclear state for fear of massive repercussions. Can you imagine if, say, NK did it to the US? NK'd be a smouldering crater within a week. It's stalemate once more. Yeah, but we've seen a terrorist group, Aum Shin Rikyo, attract enough chemists and get enough money to manufacture sarin and they used it. Another terrorist organization, like Al Qaeda, might decide to invest in building the necessary facilities for smallpox and conduct the ultimate "martyrdom operation".

Yeah, but we've seen a terrorist group, Aum Shin Rikyo, attract enough chemists and get enough money to manufacture sarin and they used it. Another terrorist organization, like Al Qaeda, might decide to invest in building the necessary facilities for smallpox and conduct the ultimate "martyrdom operation".

Here's the thing I don't get. Why on earth would you use a sterility based virus if death and destruction is what you want? The best forms of getting the widest infection range and effect would be to use plants working within major international airports as cleaning stuff and spray stuff like ebola or something similar into the air as you're passing by. Drop them in the departure lounge and BAM, you'd have a large outbreak in the making.

Even better still, disperse it in the air vents close to the flight staff lounge. The spread rate would be even higher.

Here's the thing I don't get. Why on earth would you use a sterility based virus if death and destruction is what you want? The best forms of getting the widest infection range and effect would be to use plants working within major international airports as cleaning stuff and spray stuff like ebola or something similar into the air as you're passing by. Drop them in the departure lounge and BAM, you'd have a large outbreak in the making.

Even better still, disperse it in the air vents close to the flight staff lounge. The spread rate would be even higher.
I wasn't talking about sterility. I had moved on to smallpox.

Why is there no mediumpox? :(

The neat part is that a virus doesn't stay just in your body. It's likely to spread to everyone else.
I guess I should have specified that I was assuming the virus wouldn't be as easily communicated as you suggest.

Though, frankly, I wouldn't at all mind if it was sexually transmitted. I would be perfectly comfortable only having sex with people who don't intend to produce biological children, since I consider that an extremely responsible decision.

Why is there no mediumpox? :(
I figure humans are hugepox.

Why is there no mediumpox? :(
Yeah, that's weird. We've only got smallpox and various animal-flavored pox. Chickenpox, mousepox, cowpox, and camelpox for example.

And you thought I was crazy....

Sounds like a couple of Australians are crazier than I am.

This doesn't preclude you being a raving genocidal madman.

Yeah, that's weird. We've only got smallpox and various animal-flavored pox. Chickenpox, mousepox, cowpox, and camelpox for example.
Smallpox got its name in about the 15th century. It is called smallpox to distinguish it from syphilis, which was termed the "great pockes."

This doesn't preclude you being a raving genocidal madman.
At least I'm not spraying six different kinds of virii on food.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/18/edible.virus.ap/index.html

Smallpox got its name in about the 15th century. It is called smallpox to distinguish it from syphilis, which was termed the "great pockes."

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0515/4490722_200X150.jpg

:D

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0515/4490722_200X150.jpg

:D
:D

Oooh, and for another splendid bit of trivia:

The word "vaccine" was coined by English physician Edward Jenner, from the Latin "vaca" meaning "cow." Why "cow"? Well, because Jenner is the fellow who took fluid from a cowpox pustule on a dairymaid's hand and inoculated an 8-year-old boy with it. The boy became immune to smallpox, and the world had its very first vaccine!

:D

Oooh, and for another splendid bit of trivia:

The word "vaccine" was coined by English physician Edward Jenner, from the Latin "vaca" meaning "cow." Why "cow"? Well, because Jenner is the fellow who took fluid from a cowpox pustule on a dairymaid's hand and inoculated an 8-year-old boy with it. The boy became immune to smallpox, and the world had its very first vaccine!

:eek: Vaccine is latin for cow pus? :eek:

:D

Oooh, and for another splendid bit of trivia:

The word "vaccine" was coined by English physician Edward Jenner, from the Latin "vaca" meaning "cow." Why "cow"? Well, because Jenner is the fellow who took fluid from a cowpox pustule on a dairymaid's hand and inoculated an 8-year-old boy with it. The boy became immune to smallpox, and the world had its very first vaccine!

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0515/4490722_200X150.jpg

Yeah, but we've seen a terrorist group, Aum Shin Rikyo, attract enough chemists and get enough money to manufacture sarin and they used it. Another terrorist organization, like Al Qaeda, might decide to invest in building the necessary facilities for smallpox and conduct the ultimate "martyrdom operation".
But how complex is the manufacture of Sarin? Only 5 men were directly implemented in the production and release of the gas, as far as I can make out. It would take some serious capital to get the manufacture of specialised viruses off the ground. I'd be more worried about mass cultivation of basic smallpox and its release in major cities, it's a more plausible attack method. Ockam's Razor and all that.
At least I'm not spraying six different kinds of virii on food.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/18/edi....ap/index.html
Dude, two things:
1. It's viruses, not virii. The -ii suffix is reserved for plurals of -ius words.
2. Those viruses are bacteriophages - literally 'bacteria eating'. They don't target eukaryotic cells, they don't infect humans; in fact, those approved viruses are targeting deadly bacteria such as the Listeria genus, preventing Listeriosis. Read your own sources before you try to hide behind them.

The problem is that its small pox. its highly transmisible. The reason the team used mouse pox was because you only needed to infect a few specimins in the first place. As has already been said the objective was sterility. the virus would make female mice produce antibodies to their own eggs.

The problem was that the virus they created didn't do that. it was fatal and evaded the immune system. thus no vaccine can be created. The other problem is that pox viruses are verry simmiler. thats why cow pox can give you immunity to small pox. This allso means that it may be posible to apply the same technique to Hauman small pox. Though as a bilogical weapon it ranks as utterly rubish --sure it kills your enemy but it'll kill you too.

Arguments on stuffl like this hove been going on in the scientiffic community for some time; dual use issues are a growing problem. Take for example a genitically modified virus that evades thae immune system:

It can be used in gene therapy or bio-terrorisum.

Virus also have a habit of mutating.

AIDS used to be a monkey disease.

If Bird Flu completely adapts to human physiology then more shit will hit the fan.

And of course Kimchi's wet dream Muslim Killer virus wants to survive badly so they'll decide to work on human beings in general. As if there was an Islamic gene present in the first place, pshaw.

Virus also have a habit of mutating.

AIDS used to be a monkey disease.

If Bird Flu completely adapts to human physiology then more shit will hit the fan.

And of course Kimchi's wet dream Muslim Killer virus wants to survive badly so they'll decide to work on human beings in general. As if there was an Islamic gene present in the first place, pshaw.

It could also hop from cane toads to people. THe bottom line is that people playing around with genetics and viruses frighten the bejesus out of me. There is so little room for 'oops'.

...hop? BWAHAHAHAHA!! :D