NationStates Jolt Archive

I have heard many times on this forum that only we should not talk about the risks of committing Genocide ourselves. That the holocaust was perpetrated by the Germans and that there is no danger that we might do the same things…

I guess most of you know of these two (in-) famous experiments...

-The Stanford prison experiment by Zimbardo
http://www.prisonexp.org
-The Milgram experiment (no official source found, just Google or Wiki)

I simply want you all to remember that most of us are driven by group instincts, so that we will make better choices if we ever get ourselves in these situations.

(Note that understanding why a horrific crime happened, does not free the perpetrator of the crime from individual responsibility for its acts)

We are indeed capable of great evil to our fellow man. That's why it's important to remember that everyone, regardless of their religion or race, is human, and to treat them as an equal, even if we find their opinions repugnant.

yeah everyone has the potential to commit genocide just give them the right circumstances after all everyone who has done evil things has always been human why should we be any different

after all everyone who has done evil things has always been human why should we be any different
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent
As a large number of people from various backgrounds, have acted in a horrific manner under certain circumstances...

As these people did not expect to act in this way under these circumstances...

We consequently cannot know how we will act under these circumstances.

that is so true,any of us under the right circumstances could be capable of the most disgusting events in history.
As has already been said,everyone who commited these atricities has been human, and all humans are capable of this.

I know I could.

I do not believe I ever would, regardless of circumstance.

I think reading about that study makes it less likely that I would do that. More likely that I would stop and think about what I was doing.

I think reading about that study makes it less likely that I would do that. More likely that I would stop and think about what I was doing.
You'd probably end up by quitting if you really stopped to think about it.

A televised british version of that experiment was shown a while ago, the prisoners and guards got in cahoots, all rules were abolished and they all sat round the staff room talking and smoking.

I'm too lazy to single people out. If I decided to kill that many people, I'd probably just kill you all. *nod*

A televised british version of that experiment was shown a while ago, the prisoners and guards got in cahoots, all rules were abolished and they all sat round the staff room talking and smoking.
Sounds about right for the average Englishman, though actual prisoners and guards are not your average Englishman, of course.

I'm too lazy to single people out. If I decided to kill that many people, I'd probably just kill you all. *nod*
I'm too lazy even for harrassment, and killing requires so much more work.

I'm too lazy even for harrassment, and killing requires so much more work.

Oh, I agree. I'm just saying that IF I were somehow motivated to kill a large segment of the population, I would just say, "Fuck it" and kill them all. *nod*

I'm too lazy even for harrassment, and killing requires so much more work.

Its the post-killing cleanup that makes it prohibitive.

I'm too lazy even for harrassment, and killing requires so much more work.
Mass Genocide is the most exhausting activity one can engage in, next to soccer.

A televised british version of that experiment was shown a while ago, the prisoners and guards got in cahoots, all rules were abolished and they all sat round the staff room talking and smoking.
I don't know. If all prisons were televised, I'm sure that would sharply decrease the amount of abuse guards inflict on prisoners.

"We only killed the darkies, the pinkoes, the nancy-boys! We had to, it was us or them!"

--Lewis Prothero, Voice of Fate

(I'm pretty sure I botched that quote, it's been awhile since I read it...)

I learned about the Milgram experiment from watching the porn version

The Final Solution was a secret programme. Most Germans didn't know about it.

I have heard many times on this forum that only we should not talk about the risks of committing Genocide ourselves. That the holocaust was perpetrated by the Germans and that there is no danger that we might do the same things…

The Germans aren't the only ones, or even the most recent. Think Darfur.

The Germans aren't the only ones, or even the most recent. Think Darfur.

Darfur's much less organized and mechanized though. I'm not saying one's better, but they're quite different situations.

Esspecialy with all this profiling bs, that I've been hearing in the US in the past week...seriously, on the news, in the news paper, and people in general have starting to be saying that this is ok. NO! Thats how it starts man. I'm not even going to go into it...

The Germans aren't the only ones, or even the most recent. Think Darfur.
Lets see how many genocides I can think of over the 20th century:
Holocaust
Darfur
Armenian genocide
Tutsi genocide
Pontic genocide
Assyrian Genocide
Bosnian Genocide.........

Scary stuff......

The Final Solution was a secret programme. Most Germans didn't know about it.


I dont believe that.

I have a friend whos German grandmother still comes to visit every summer.
She and I got on very well, even though she speaks about as much English, as I do German.

I told her how much I love history and she told me what she went through living in Berlin in 1945.
Scary, is what it was.

I asked her if the average German citizen knew what was going on in the camps, and she said, " we knew".
She said that even if they didnt know exactly what was happening, that when every Jew is eventually rounded up, and you never see them again, you knew what was happening to them.

She mentioned that occasionally you would hear that some would be sent to other countries, and away from Germany, but you never heard of where, or what country...

They didnt know specifics, but they had pretty good guesses.
They just naturally didnt want to admit it.

Lets see how many genocides I can think of over the 20th century:
Holocaust
Darfur
Armenian genocide
Tutsi genocide
Pontic genocide
Assyrian Genocide
Bosnian Genocide.........

Scary stuff......


*shrug* Dealing with outsiders by wiping 'em out is part of our genes.
Coincidentally, so is miscegenation by rape.

I don't expect either behaviour to stop being part of our genepool.

The Germans aren't the only ones, or even the most recent. Think Darfur.

Yeah, people just pretend that the Germans are the only ones.

A televised british version of that experiment was shown a while ago, the prisoners and guards got in cahoots, all rules were abolished and they all sat round the staff room talking and smoking.

Apart from the two men (they were all men - gender bias much?) who originally broke out of their shared cell and set the rest free. They thought that because of this they deserved special privileges and refused to do any work. Fucking reactionary vanguardists.

We are indeed capable of great evil to our fellow man. That's why it's important to remember that everyone, regardless of their religion or race, is human, and to treat them as an equal, even if we find their opinions repugnant.
Just remember - Muslims are people too.

I dont believe that.

I have a friend whos German grandmother still comes to visit every summer.
She and I got on very well, even though she speaks about as much English, as I do German.

I told her how much I love history and she told me what she went through living in Berlin in 1945.
Scary, is what it was.

I asked her if the average German citizen knew what was going on in the camps, and she said, " we knew".
She said that even if they didnt know exactly what was happening, that when every Jew is eventually rounded up, and you never see them again, you knew what was happening to them.

She mentioned that occasionally you would hear that some would be sent to other countries, and away from Germany, but you never heard of where, or what country...

They didnt know specifics, but they had pretty good guesses.
They just naturally didnt want to admit it.
It was kept secret until about 1943-44, when the Russians were invading and people were fleeing, and people discovered the death camps.

People were most definitely not told about the death camps, I think you'll find.

It was kept secret until about 1943-44, when the Russians were invading and people were fleeing, and people discovered the death camps.

People were most definitely not told about the death camps, I think you'll find.

They were told, but felt they had good reason to distrust the sources.

*shrug* truth that comes from a source you have cause to hate is treated as a lie.

They were told, but felt they had good reason to distrust the sources.

*shrug* truth that comes from a source you have cause to hate is treated as a lie.
Ah OK.

Didn't the government try and cover it up, though?

Ah OK.

Didn't the government try and cover it up, though?

Of course but its difficult to hide something on that scale

Ah OK.

Didn't the government try and cover it up, though?

Of course. The Final Solution was classified top-secret.


Eradicating evidence was given high priority ( albeit it in the typical irrational nazi-fashion ).
Hence a flood of medical records alleging that they almost all died of heart-attacks,
the production of bone-crushing machines -
but why be pornographic in describing the methods of utterly irrational ( and evil to boot! ) regimes?

Of course but its difficult to hide something on that scale
Indeed, that's what I thought.

I was aware that people were beginning to know in about '43, but that the German government tried to cover it up.

yeah everyone has the potential to commit genocide just give them the right circumstances after all everyone who has done evil things has always been human why should we be any different


I completely agree. Perhaps if the committers of genocide grew up/lived in different circumstances they may not have done it. However I think the more open minded, tolerant and accepting people are of 'others',the less chance there is of genocide in the world.

I completely agree. Perhaps if the committers of genocide grew up/lived in different circumstances they may not have done it. However I think the more open minded, tolerant and accepting people are of 'others',the less chance there is of genocide in the world.


Wishful thinking. Evidence?

And since we dropped the t-word:
Thinking leads to Ideas.
Ideals lead to Idealism.
And Idealism leads to Ideologies.
And we all know where Ideologies lead to.

Morale of the story: less thinking - and Bob's your uncle.

Wishful thinking. Evidence?

And since we dropped the t-word:
Thinking leads to Ideas.
Ideals lead to Idealism.
And Idealism leads to Ideologies.
And we all know where Ideologies lead to.

Morale of the story: less thinking - and Bob's your uncle.


Em ok. Evidence of what? I said people should be more tolerant of people. And who knows if I grew up in a completely different country,etc would I be the same person. NO. you don't need evidence for that its common sense. I am who I am based on my experiences, the people who I interact with, my choices, the place I live, where I was sent to school.

BogMarsh I believe your existance on NS is just to disagree with the most recent comment on a thread!!!

Em ok. Evidence of what? I said people should be more tolerant of people. And who knows if I grew up in a completely different country,etc would I be the same person. NO. you don't need evidence for that its common sense. I am who I am based on my experiences, the people who I interact with, my choices, the place I live, where I was sent to school.

BogMarsh I believe your existance on NS is just to disagree with the most recent comment on a thread!!!

I'm not merely implying, I'm stating quite openly that I consider tolerance to be a most undesirable thing - except when dealing with your own allies.

It idn't about you - it's about your woollyminded, and I daresay, culturally-NOT-conservative silliness.

OK, please prove how the should will result in a better world - given that genocide is part of our genetic code.

I have heard many times on this forum that only we should not talk about the risks of committing Genocide ourselves. That the holocaust was perpetrated by the Germans and that there is no danger that we might do the same things…

I guess most of you know of these two (in-) famous experiments...

-The Stanford prison experiment by Zimbardo
http://www.prisonexp.org
-The Milgram experiment (no official source found, just Google or Wiki)

I simply want you all to remember that most of us are driven by group instincts, so that we will make better choices if we ever get ourselves in these situations.

(Note that understanding why a horrific crime happened, does not free the perpetrator of the crime from individual responsibility for its acts)

I keep saying that, but most people here say, "oh, you evil, evil Kimchi, you're the only one who could do such a thing".

Oh yeah? I could order it (if in power) and most people would gladly go along with it.

I learned about the Milgram experiment from watching the porn version

...What?

Wishful thinking. Evidence?

And since we dropped the t-word:
Thinking leads to Ideas.
Ideals lead to Idealism.
And Idealism leads to Ideologies.
And we all know where Ideologies lead to.

Morale of the story: less thinking - and Bob's your uncle.
I don't understand. Do you actually condemn the White Rose group for rebelling against the Nazis? Just because they disobeyed the government they were under and had different thoughts to the majority of the people? This stinks of relativism.

I don't understand. Do you actually condemn the White Rose group for rebelling against the Nazis? Just because they disobeyed the government they were under and had different thoughts to the majority of the people? This stinks of relativism.

I think you're kind of missing the point that there would have been no Nazism in Germany if only those perishing folks had refrained from trying to save the planet!

I have heard many times on this forum that only we should not talk about the risks of committing Genocide ourselves. That the holocaust was perpetrated by the Germans and that there is no danger that we might do the same things…

I guess most of you know of these two (in-) famous experiments...

-The Stanford prison experiment by Zimbardo
http://www.prisonexp.org
-The Milgram experiment (no official source found, just Google or Wiki)

I simply want you all to remember that most of us are driven by group instincts, so that we will make better choices if we ever get ourselves in these situations.

(Note that understanding why a horrific crime happened, does not free the perpetrator of the crime from individual responsibility for its acts)


Good thread!

*bows*

Mass Genocide is the most exhausting activity one can engage in, next to soccer.

Raining down brimstone .. . that's an enurance trial!

I keep saying that, but most people here say, "oh, you evil, evil Kimchi, you're the only one who could do such a thing".

Oh yeah? I could order it (if in power) and most people would gladly go along with it.

And people like me would gladly participate in the assassination of President Deep Kimchi.

Raining down brimstone .. . that's an enurance trial!
Sulphur, not brimstone.

Sulphur, not brimstone.

Sorry, been to long since I watched the movie.

Sorry, been to long since I watched the movie.
Meh, beat me to the quote. Thank my anal retentive attention to detail.

And people like me would gladly participate in the assassination of President Deep Kimchi.

That assumes that you have the ability.

That assumes that you have the ability.

This genius sounds like all hat, no cattle. Probably still in high school and playing too much Nintendo too.

Meh, beat me to the quote. Thank my anal retentive attention to detail.
Can't be anal retentive...

Can't be anal retentive...
Can be pendant though.-_-

Well sure, of course i could, i'm a middle man, i'd say i was ordered to do it, that and i believe in perfection.

Clear evidence that many here would indeed support a campaign of genocide:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=489731

That thread's poll asks if pedophilia is inherantly bad or not.
Doesn't say that the yes people would want to kill 'em.
Or are you talking about the random people with death threats spread through the thread?

We are indeed capable of great evil to our fellow man. That's why it's important to remember that everyone, regardless of their religion or race, is human, and to treat them as an equal, even if we find their opinions repugnant.
So? You act as if humans are special or worth something.

Fuck, I know I could. No telling what crazy shit I’d pull if I thought it was for the greater good.

That thread's poll asks if pedophilia is inherantly bad or not.
Doesn't say that the yes people would want to kill 'em.
Or are you talking about the random people with death threats spread through the thread?
Yes, I was talking about the death threats, and the ones suggesting castration and sterilization, and the ones suggesting concentration camps.

All most people need for inspiration to comit genocide is a socially acceptable target.