NationStates Jolt Archive

I just heard about the new UN peacekeeping force thats supposedly going to show up in Lebanon, and they include German soldiers! wont Isreal be pissed as hell!?!?! If this doesnt start world war three, NOTHING will! Seriously, if I was isreali I'd be like, FUCK NO DUDE! and start shelling everyone.

I just heard about the new UN peacekeeping force thats supposedly going to show up in Lebanon, and they include German soldiers! wont Isreal be pissed as hell!?!?! If this doesnt start world war three, NOTHING will! Seriously, if I was isreali I'd be like, FUCK NO DUDE! and start shelling everyone.

why? there not nazis

that was 60 years ago, get over it

If they would be so negative about that, wouldn't they have said that. I think you are overreacting.
Nobody's gonna do H again.

I just heard about the new UN peacekeeping force thats supposedly going to show up in Lebanon, and they include German soldiers! wont Isreal be pissed as hell!?!?! If this doesnt start world war three, NOTHING will! Seriously, if I was isreali I'd be like, FUCK NO DUDE! and start shelling everyone.
German =/= Nazi.

Yeah. I think we can safely say that that isn't going to happen again. The Germans of today are nothing like the Germans of the 1930's/40's.

what's so bad about the Germans?

There certainly better than the Americans:p

Someone is clearly overreacting :rolleyes:

that was 60 years ago, get over it

And they will be more in Lebanon not in Israel.

I think you should calm down. Like, a lot. :rolleyes:

Incidentally, this very morning I heard some guy (didn't catch who it was, some guy from some think tank on international relations) on the radio (here in Germany) say something that struck me as pretty reasonable:

He said that we should make it wholly dependent on what the Israelis think about having German soldiers there. If there turns out to be any kind of opposition to the idea, no matter if by Holocaust survivors or any other group, we should drop it immediately.
So far, according to him, there had been no negative comments whatsoever, rather the opposite.

If there turns out to be only minor opposition to it, then we definitely should still drop the idea of sending any kinds of troops into Israel, but should still not rule out sending e.g. military ships to the region (Region! Not country!).

Now, what our government itself will finally decide on this I'll be interested to see. I don't quite see them sending our troops to Israel just yet, if only as a preemptive measure to avoid *any* kind of opposition or negative reactions altogether.

you Gonna Get Locked

1. It was 60 years ago, most people have forgivin Germany for the acts of a few monsters.

2. Modern Germany, from what I have seen, has a rabid anti-Nazi complex. WWII video games have Swastikas removed, denying the Holocaust is a crime...theres probobly a Wikipedia article on it somewhere. But anyway, look at it this way.
I knew a girl from Germany, she was nice enough, but if you mentioned Nazi's within her hearing, it had better've been for a good reason, because she could be Stereotypical Anime Redhead Unleashed if you werent careful.

that was 60 years ago, get over it

Jews will never "get over" the Holocaust. Just like we won't "get over" the pogroms of czarist russia, the spanish inquisition, our numerous expulsions, or any other time in our long history of being persecuted. The sooner we "get over" the Holocaust, the sooner we will let it happen again, either to the Jews, or non-Jews.

He was however wrong by trying to say there would be something wrong with Germans serving in the International force. The Germans of today are in no way the Nazis of 60 years ago, even tho the Nazis were pretty successful in making Europe Judenrein(Jew-less). I as a Jew would be very happy to see the Germans taking an active role in the international force.

Jews will never "get over" the Holocaust. Just like we won't "get over" the pogroms of czarist russia, the spanish inquisition, our numerous expulsions, or any other time in our long history of being persecuted. The sooner we "get over" the Holocaust, the sooner we will let it happen again, either to the Jews, or non-Jews.

I think he meant forgive the German people for it

Tedious and facile.

Israel, and the Jewish faith, is hardly innocent of its little transgressions is it? And yet do the British refuse to serve with them due to terrorism in the late 1940's? Shockingly, no.

The holocaust did not conclude yesterday, nor were the majority of Israeli's alive to remember it.

who decide where an holy land is?

Jews will never "get over" the Holocaust. Just like we won't "get over" the pogroms of czarist russia, the spanish inquisition, our numerous expulsions, or any other time in our long history of being persecuted. The sooner we "get over" the Holocaust, the sooner we will let it happen again, either to the Jews, or non-Jews.


Utter bollocks. Do descend from your soapbox and consider the extent to which the holocaust is reasonably and compassionately remembered and taught throughout Europe, and notably Germany.

Incidentally, are the Jews innocent of discrimination?

who decide where an holy land is?

holy people?

<snip>

Incidentally, are the Jews innocent of discrimination?
Is anyone?

holy people?

The Pope?

The Pope?

Jew Pope?

German =/= Nazi.
tell that to the israeli ppl. the still think otherwise.

Is anyone?

If Fass is to believed, Sweden.:D

In sincerity, of course not. However, other discriminated groups have endured a process called "growing the fuck up and getting on with your life". Evidently Valinor fails to do so.

Oh please. There is no need to be xenophobic about this. :rolleyes:

If Israel doesn't want the help, then they can make do with a couple of thousand fewer blue helmets on the border. Fat lot of difference it's going to make anyway.

Utter bollocks. Do descend from your soapbox and consider the extent to which the holocaust is reasonably and compassionately remembered and taught throughout Europe, and notably Germany.

Incidentally, are the Jews innocent of discrimination?

Duh. "Reasonably and compassionately remembered and taught" is exactly what is being done to not just "get over it" and forget about it. Shouldn't that be painfully obvious?

And please, shove your "Oh, wait, they can't have suffered! They've done bad things, too!".

Also, the only one on a soapbox in this thread is you, so maybe you should chose whom you attack for what a bit more carefully.

tell that to the israeli ppl. the still think otherwise.
No, they really don't. Maybe a couple here and there do. Every nation has a few idiots, but most Israelis don't believe that all Germans are Nazi.

Jew Pope?

...Well, why not? :p There must be some kind of über-rabbi?

Oh please. There is no need to be xenophobic about this. :rolleyes:

If Israel doesn't want the help, then they can make do with a couple of thousand fewer blue helmets on the border. Fat lot of difference it's going to make anyway.
I don't see how the OP going into conniptions over this does in any way imply that "Israel doesn't want help".

Call me crazy, but maybe we could wait until, oh, I don't know, Israel actually makes any kind of statement on the matter before telling them to stop being so touchy and childish? :rolleyes:

Duh. "Reasonably and compassionately remembered and taught" is exactly what is being done to not just "get over it" and forget about it. Shouldn't that be painfully obvious?

And please, shove your "Oh, wait, they can't have suffered! They've done bad things, too!".

Also, the only one on a soapbox in this thread is you, so maybe you should chose whom you attack for what a bit more carefully.

Not as such. Education is a different matter to perpetual citation.

Incidentally, in regard to the second point, I believe you may be entirely wrong. The Jews have suffered inordinately, indubitubly so, however, in light of their actions regarding Palestine, they have no justification in contending to be innocent.

Indeed, why on earth am I "on a soapbox"?

Rumour has it that some Japanese people have visited Pearl Harbour! Heavens No! Not at the Holy Vacation Land!

Tedious and facile.

Israel, and the Jewish faith, is hardly innocent of its little transgressions is it? And yet do the British refuse to serve with them due to terrorism in the late 1940's? Shockingly, no.

The holocaust did not conclude yesterday, nor were the majority of Israeli's alive to remember it.


So you're pulling the Irgun card eh? They were a minority of Jews in Palestine and were condemned by all major facets of Jewish life and the mainstream Jewish defense, the Haganah.

My grandmoter and he sister and brother in Israel remember it quite well...Just because it ended 60 years ago does not mean we should forget it.

Not as such. Education is a different matter to perpetual citation.

Incidentally, in regard to the second point, I believe you may be entirely wrong. The Jews have suffered inordinately, indubitubly so, however, in light of their actions regarding Palestine, they have no justification in contending to be innocent.

Indeed, why on earth am I "on a soapbox"?

Israel treats the Palestinians how any nation would treat non-citizens that have a habit of crossing the border and blowing themseves to smitherins...but thats for another thread...you can start a new one if you want.

Not as such. Education is a different matter to perpetual citation. Oh really? I'd be interested as to how you would achieve the former without the latter if I wasn't so confused as to what consituted the difference between them in the first place, seeing how one is apparently so good and the other apparently so awful. Not to mention how you managed to divine that the posts in this thread fall squarely into the latter category.

Incidentally, in regard to the second point, I believe you may be entirely wrong. The Jews have suffered inordinately, indubitubly so, however, in light of their actions regarding Palestine, they have no justification in contending to be innocent. Again, I'm confused as to who here exactly even made the point of Israel being "innocent"....

Indeed, why on earth am I "on a soapbox"?
.... which also answers this question. You didn't even pay attention to the thread, you just came in brandishing your theory on Israel in general, nevermind that apart from what one could read into the overly excited OP nobody had said anything like what you seemed to reply to. Tedious and facile much?

I just heard about the new UN peacekeeping force thats supposedly going to show up in Lebanon, and they include German soldiers! wont Isreal be pissed as hell!?!?! If this doesnt start world war three, NOTHING will! Seriously, if I was isreali I'd be like, FUCK NO DUDE! and start shelling everyone.
Uhm. No.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2111978,00.html

First of all, it's not like the world is calling "The Germans to the front".

Germany has offered the UN to help put resolution 1701 into effect. Due to our nation's history, it would not be wise to station German combat units on the Israeli/Lebanese border. The UN mandate only makes sense when the blue helmets can enforce the resolution - that could possibly mean firing at either Lebanese/Hezbollah or even Israeli soldiers. That can't and therefore won't happen.

The German goverment is offering naval surveillance as well as logistics and support (airlift) into the region. In addition, it is suggested to place German Border Patrol (Bundespolizei/Bundesgrenzschutz) troops on the Lebanese/Syrian border.

Hardly a situation to cry havoc, especially not when the German foreign policy has always been in strong support of Israel, let alone the supply with weapons like parts of the tanks, artillery, and submarines. (Yes, Israeli U-Boats, if I'm not mistaken even with second strike capabilities.)

While I agree that German soldiers shouldn't be placed right on the border out of historical reasons, and I don't think we have enough combat troups left looking at how our armed forces are spread all over the world, we still should help shape a safe(r) middle east if we are capable of helping (all) the people in the region.

The pioneers could help with the infrastructure like streets and bridges, and I believe that he French asked for our support (like, "we're not going in without you" if I'm right).

Jews will never "get over" the Holocaust. Just like we won't "get over" the pogroms of czarist russia, the spanish inquisition, our numerous expulsions, or any other time in our long history of being persecuted. The sooner we "get over" the Holocaust, the sooner we will let it happen again, either to the Jews, or non-Jews.

He was however wrong by trying to say there would be something wrong with Germans serving in the International force. The Germans of today are in no way the Nazis of 60 years ago, even tho the Nazis were pretty successful in making Europe Judenrein(Jew-less). I as a Jew would be very happy to see the Germans taking an active role in the international force.

Of course Jews will not get over the Holocaust. Just as they never got over Egypt or Babylon. They need victimhood and persecution for self definition.

It's like when that italian dude visited Carthage, and a local came and punched him in the face for being roman, right?

Jews shouldn't get over the Holocaust, because it was a great tragedy for the entire world. But it ended 60 years ago, and while in the 1940's German=Nazi/sympathizer, German=/=Nazi now.

So Israelis should not have a problem with Germans on their soil, unless the Germans ruin it, or the Jews in question are extremist and still resent Germans, many of whom were mot alive back then.

Jews will never "get over" the Holocaust. Just like we won't "get over" the pogroms of czarist russia, the spanish inquisition, our numerous expulsions, or any other time in our long history of being persecuted. The sooner we "get over" the Holocaust, the sooner we will let it happen again, either to the Jews, or non-Jews.

He was however wrong by trying to say there would be something wrong with Germans serving in the International force. The Germans of today are in no way the Nazis of 60 years ago, even tho the Nazis were pretty successful in making Europe Judenrein(Jew-less). I as a Jew would be very happy to see the Germans taking an active role in the international force.

I didn't mean forget it happened, I meant forgive the germans and stop obsessing about it.

I'm sorry for offending you

Israel treats the Palestinians how any nation would treat non-citizens that have a habit of crossing the border and blowing themseves to smitherins...but thats for another thread...you can start a new one if you want.

there goes the oll' collective blame

what's so bad about the Germans?

There certainly better than the Americans:p

America still has a score to settle with Hezzbolah.


why? there not nazis


Old fears die hard.

Jews shouldn't get over the Holocaust, because it was a great tragedy for the entire world. But it ended 60 years ago, and while in the 1940's German=Nazi/sympathizer, German=/=Nazi now.

So Israelis should not have a problem with Germans on their soil, unless the Germans ruin it, or the Jews in question are extremist and still resent Germans, many of whom were mot alive back then.

I don't think Israel would allow Foreigners on their soil. I don't even think they allow Americans for anything other than special needs..IE secret missions and whatnot.

Of course Jews will not get over the Holocaust. Just as they never got over Egypt or Babylon. They need victimhood and persecution for self definition.
Thats right because the first thing a Jew think when they here about Egypt and Iraq is "Those damn Slave owners" and "Those fricken Exilers" Jews have this huge persecution complex that is historically unfounded and are the most unforgiving people on the planet. [/Sarcasm]

Does that sound stupid to you? It should. If it doesn't then I apologize, I didn't realize I was arguing with someone who is clearly brain damaged.

It's like when that italian dude visited Carthage, and a local came and punched him in the face for being roman, right? Rocky 4, right?

Pffft. Germans in teh Holey Land? I awreddy know how that turns out.


They all get melted by the Ark of the Covenant, while Indy and his squeeze keep their eyes squinched shut.

You people need to watch more Hollywood movies.

I don't think Israel would allow Foreigners on their soil. I don't even think they allow Americans for anything other than special needs..IE secret missions and whatnot.
Say "armed foreigners on their soil to force them to do someting/anything" if that's what you mean... otherwise you just look like an idiot you are. I, as a foreigner, have had good times in Jaffa and Haifa (coming straight from Lebanon, I might add).

German Soldiers near the holy land... So?

German Soldiers near the holy land... So?
So, this:
http://www.bsospirit.com/comentarios/images/raidersofthelostark/themiracleoftheark.jpg

So, this:
http://www.bsospirit.com/comentarios/images/raidersofthelostark/themiracleoftheark.jpg
Nazi frying... So? Is that a bad thing or something? Besides everyone knows that the Ark is in Turkey. I mean they won't let anyone near it because they don't want the above to happen.

Nazi frying... So? Is that a bad thing or something?
I'm not complaining.
Besides everyone knows that the Ark is in Turkey.
I thought it wuz Ethiopia.
I mean they won't let anyone near it because they don't want the above to happen.
Well, not any Germans, presumably.

Barbaric Tribes, remember how those TV shows say, "Ask for parents' permission before going online?" You really ought to listen to them.

Nazi frying... So? Is that a bad thing or something? Besides everyone knows that the Ark is in Turkey. I mean they won't let anyone near it because they don't want the above to happen.

He's talking about the ark of the covenant not noah's ark, silly.

The Israelis think that the Holocaust is the Greatest crime of the century or history, When in fact there were much worse genocides. In that Case Ukrainians should kill the Russians in their borders after losing 10,000,000 during the Holodomor and The Chinese should do the same to the Japanese if that what it comes too. It is very wrong that most of the world only hears on the Jewish Holocaoust and not as well on genocides which exceeded the number by millions more. Look how they have managed to put the other genocides in the sidelines, it is quite shameful for Israel, another reason why ther is a lot of anti-semitism.

The Israelis think that the Holocaust is the Greatest crime of the century or history, When in fact there were much worse genocides. In that Case Ukrainians should kill the Russians in their borders after losing 10,000,000 during the Holodomor and The Chinese should do the same to the Japanese if that what it comes too. It is very wrong that most of the world only hears on the Jewish Holocaoust and not as well on genocides which exceeded the number by millions more. Look how they have managed to put the other genocides in the sidelines, it is quite shameful for Israel, another reason why ther is a lot of anti-semitism. This is strictly sig material it is! Is there 7 or 8 lines of that?

Folks are anti-semites, because the dirty jews have managed to belittle other monstrosities..? Now that's fucking new.

The Israelis think that the Holocaust is the Greatest crime of the century or history, When in fact there were much worse genocides. In that Case Ukrainians should kill the Russians in their borders after losing 10,000,000 during the Holodomor and The Chinese should do the same to the Japanese if that what it comes too. It is very wrong that most of the world only hears on the Jewish Holocaoust and not as well on genocides which exceeded the number by millions more. Look how they have managed to put the other genocides in the sidelines, it is quite shameful for Israel, another reason why ther is a lot of anti-semitism.


Right, there is anti-semetism because the Jews bring to the worlds attention to the consequences of blind hatred and intolerance. If anything, the Jews bringing attention to such genocidal tendencies (the Jews are helping out big time with raising awareness aabout Darfur, just check out the US Holocaust memorial website) and help the world not to forget what can happen when such hate spirals out of control. Yet the world continues to ignore the genocidal rhetoric of Iran and their Holocaust denial, and the rest of the Arab world (minus the gov'ts of Jordan and Egypt) world that is hell bent on the destruction of the Jewish state.

Don't rock the boat Jews...be good little Jews. Don't cause a ruccus by defending yourselves against unrelenting aggression...go quietly like you are supposed to...

Of course Jews will not get over the Holocaust. Just as they never got over Egypt or Babylon. They need victimhood and persecution for self definition.


Hmmm..never got over Egypt or Babylon? After Egypt we were given the land of Israel..ruled it for years...Babylon..we weren't in exile there too long..we rebuilt the temple fairly quickly after the initial exile.

What you said is based on complete ignorance of the Jewish faith.

We celebrate holidays like Passover, and refer to the Exodus so often, because it reaffirms our faith in G-d, and allows us to connect to Him because of the miracles He performed to bring us out of such bondage and hardship. We dwell on our hardships in order to praise Hashem (G-d) for bringing us out of the hardships brought down upon us by our oppressors, not to sit there and to try and get extra help or sympathy for our suffering.

I just heard about the new UN peacekeeping force thats supposedly going to show up in Lebanon, and they include German soldiers! wont Isreal be pissed as hell!?!?! If this doesnt start world war three, NOTHING will! Seriously, if I was isreali I'd be like, FUCK NO DUDE! and start shelling everyone.
A few weeks ago Olmert stated that Israel would not mind German peacekeepers. (Haaretz)

The relation between Israel and Germany is generally good…
As Germany regards itself the last nation justified to criticize or oppose Israel

World War Three?

I think you still have to learn a great deal about the contemporary history of Europe and the Middle East...

No offence intended, but take some classes :D

The Israelis think that the Holocaust is the Greatest crime of the century or history, When in fact there were much worse genocides. In that Case Ukrainians should kill the Russians in their borders after losing 10,000,000 during the Holodomor and The Chinese should do the same to the Japanese if that what it comes too. It is very wrong that most of the world only hears on the Jewish Holocaoust and not as well on genocides which exceeded the number by millions more. Look how they have managed to put the other genocides in the sidelines, it is quite shameful for Israel, another reason why ther is a lot of anti-semitism.

I don't think Israel has put other genocides "In the sidelines" at all. In Ukraine, I'd bet my bottom dollar that the Ukranian genocide takes some importance, too. The Chinese/Koreans and Japan are still bickering (for lack of a better word) over Japanese genocide and Korean occupation. To put it simply, without trying to speak for the Jews, the Jews talk of the Holocaust because it is relavent to them. The Rape of Nanjing is probably less so in their current situation.

There is no excuse for anti-sematism, or racism at all, period.

The Israelis think that the Holocaust is the Greatest crime of the century or history, When in fact there were much worse genocides. In that Case Ukrainians should kill the Russians in their borders after losing 10,000,000 during the Holodomor and The Chinese should do the same to the Japanese if that what it comes too. It is very wrong that most of the world only hears on the Jewish Holocaoust and not as well on genocides which exceeded the number by millions more. Look how they have managed to put the other genocides in the sidelines, it is quite shameful for Israel, another reason why ther is a lot of anti-semitism.
First comment, you are make the common error of not noting the difference between Israel and Jews.

Second comment; read your badly worded comment another time, and look if you can see why it might come close to anti-Semitism. (see also the first comment)

Of course Jews will not get over the Holocaust. Just as they never got over Egypt or Babylon. They need victimhood and persecution for self definition.

Like Blacks?

Or American Indians?

or just about any race save possibly the caucasians, who did most of the persecuting?

I remember I started a thread on this topic a while back, my OP was calm and consise, my thread barely reached one page in length. But this thread, the OP is short, hysterical and spelled incredibly bad. And its four pages long...

I think there's a moral here: restrainment is for pussies :-D

I remember I started a thread on this topic a while back, my OP was calm and consise, my thread barely reached one page in length. But this thread, the OP is short, hysterical and spelled incredibly bad. And its four pages long...

I think there's a moral here: restrainment is for pussies :-D

Sad but true :D

They are just Teutonic Knights, don't worry :p

Fuck 'em!
If they wish to be pissed off let them be, Let Germany be.

Fuck 'em!
If they wish to be pissed off let them be, Let Germany be.
Dont be so quick to jump the gun and say fuck the Israelis....It doesnt seem like Israel has a problem with this, but its more internet pre-teens who think that Germans still shout Sieg Heil.

I just heard about the new UN peacekeeping force thats supposedly going to show up in Lebanon, and they include German soldiers! wont Isreal be pissed as hell!?!?! If this doesnt start world war three, NOTHING will! Seriously, if I was isreali I'd be like, FUCK NO DUDE! and start shelling everyone.
I think Germany has already ruled out sending troops there. They want to make sure that nobody in the service of the German government ever shoots a Jew again, and that's understandable.

The Israelis think that the Holocaust is the Greatest crime of the century or history, When in fact there were much worse genocides.

The Holocaust was the greatest crime of the century. It was a single programme which killed 12 million people.

The Holocaust was the greatest crime of the century. It was a single programme which killed 12 million people.

Why argue over what is worst, makes no sense in the horrific category.

Dont be so quick to jump the gun and say fuck the Israelis....It doesnt seem like Israel has a problem with this, but its more internet pre-teens who think that Germans still shout Sieg Heil.
It's such an exceedingly rare occasion that we actually agree on anything political that it seemed worth to quote it just for the hell of it. :p

Dont be so quick to jump the gun and say fuck the Israelis....It doesnt seem like Israel has a problem with this, but its more internet pre-teens who think that Germans still shout Sieg Heil.

"Ohnoes!!!!1one They are teh Nazis! :eek:"

:rolleyes:

It's such an exceedingly rare occasion that we actually agree on anything political that it seemed worth to quote it just for the hell of it. :p
Awww:fluffle: See? Miracles do happen.:p

Edit: I think that is the first time I've ever used a fluffle smile. Wow, I feel about 83% less heterosexual.

"Ohnoes!!!!1one They are teh Nazis! :eek:"

:rolleyes:
:confused: ?

I think you totally missed what I said and took it the way you wanted to hear it.

:confused: ?

I think you totally missed what I said and took it the way you wanted to hear it.

No, I was mocking people that think that of the Germans. Hence, the quotation marks.

No, I was mocking people that think that of the Germans. Hence, the quotation marks.
Oh! Forgive me, I'm blonde and its early. :D

Oh! Forgive me, I'm blonde and its early. :D

No worries. I'm a bit of a prick much of the time, so people often misunderstand when I'm joking around. ;)

Nazi frying... So? Is that a bad thing or something? Besides everyone knows that the Ark is in Turkey. I mean they won't let anyone near it because they don't want the above to happen.
That's noah's ark in Turkey, not the arc of the covenant, which is in a warehouse owned by a Hollywood film studio.

I am no fucking nazi or fascist. I condamn what the Nazis did, that wasn't the point. What I was saying was that, we only hear or most of the world only knows on the holocaust and not on other bigger genocides. And 6 million died not 12 million. The Greatest crime of the century was that humans engaged in wars and lost millions of man over some piece of land or some crazy ideology.

I am no fucking nazi or fascist. I condamn what the Nazis did, that wasn't the point.

Did not think you are, but these subjects require a careful wording that is a bit more precise ;)

I am no fucking nazi or fascist. I condamn what the Nazis did, that wasn't the point. What I was saying was that, we only hear or most of the world only knows on the holocaust and not on other bigger genocides. And 6 million died not 12 million. The Greatest crime of the century was that humans engaged in wars and lost millions of man over some piece of land or some crazy ideology.

The Holocaust was the greatest crime and tragedy of the 20th century, not only because of the number of people murdered, but by the sheer complexity and sytematics of Hitlers death machine. Hitlers death factories were unprecedented in their systematic approach at mass murder.

You are wrong about the number killed. While the final solution was aimed at the Jews and Hitler succeeded in killing 6 million of them, the gypsies, gays, disabled, and many other political and military prisoners also met their end either in one of Hitlers mass graves or gas chambers. Jews and non-Jews combined adds up to roughly 12-13 million murdered.

you Gonna Get Locked


This is beginning to look like spam to me, as you've put it in at least three threads I've seen. Knock it off.

The Holocaust was the greatest crime and tragedy of the 20th century, not only because of the number of people murdered, but by the sheer complexity and sytematics of Hitlers death machine. Hitlers death factories were unprecedented in their systematic approach at mass murder.

You are wrong about the number killed. While the final solution was aimed at the Jews and Hitler succeeded in killing 6 million of them, the gypsies, gays, disabled, and many other political and military prisoners also met their end either in one of Hitlers mass graves or gas chambers. Jews and non-Jews combined adds up to roughly 12-13 million murdered.

And then there's Pol Pot. He just didn't have access to that many people.

And then there's Pol Pot. He just didn't have access to that many people.

Don't forget stalin's purges, I think they killed 20 odd million people

Nothings wrong with germans, they got good chocolate:D, gotta love the chocolate.

Don't forget stalin's purges, I think they killed 20 odd million people

Another good point.

The Jew's don't need to worry about the German's anyway.

It is only the Turkish.

Nothings wrong with germans, they got good chocolate:D, gotta love the chocolate.

Nothing at all wrong with 'em. I'm allergic to chocolate, but I like the people. I've yet to meet someone from Germany, in fact, that I didn't like. Unlike some other countries... :p

The Jew's don't need to worry about the German's anyway.

It is only the Turkish.

We need to worry about people who use apostrophes inappropriately.

I am no fucking nazi or fascist. I condamn what the Nazis did, that wasn't the point. What I was saying was that, we only hear or most of the world only knows on the holocaust and not on other bigger genocides. And 6 million died not 12 million. The Greatest crime of the century was that humans engaged in wars and lost millions of man over some piece of land or some crazy ideology.


The numbers I have heard quoted were 6 million Jews, and 6 millions of gypsies, homosexuals, political dissidents, mentally handicapped, physically handicapped, et al.

http://www.answers.com/topic/concentration-camp <-- here it says ten million.

The numbers I have heard quoted were 6 million Jews, and 6 millions of gypsies, homosexuals, political dissidents, mentally handicapped, physically handicapped, et al.

http://www.answers.com/topic/concentration-camp <-- here it says ten million.

I have to say that I believe the numbers to be inflated. That doesn't change the horror of the atrocities committed, though.

The Holocaust was the greatest crime and tragedy of the 20th century, not only because of the number of people murdered, but by the sheer complexity and sytematics of Hitlers death machine. Hitlers death factories were unprecedented in their systematic approach at mass murder.

You are wrong about the number killed. While the final solution was aimed at the Jews and Hitler succeeded in killing 6 million of them, the gypsies, gays, disabled, and many other political and military prisoners also met their end either in one of Hitlers mass graves or gas chambers. Jews and non-Jews combined adds up to roughly 12-13 million murdered.

But we are talking about Jews not gypsys, or disabled etc, I was referring to the Jewish Holocaust, not Hitler' total toll of murders because as far as I remember this post is on Jews not on the others, and besides the Jewish Holocasut or the toll of murders of Hitlers Reign isn't the greatest crim of the 20 th century, because Stalin killed about 20 million, and Mao Zeatoung, (counting the Great Leap Foward) som 30-40 million, so in numbers it wasn't the Greatest crime in History. As if other Genocides weren't cruel, all of the deaths in all genocides were killed in bestial manners.

But we are talking about Jews not gypsys, or disabled etc, I was referring to the Jewish Holocaust, not Hitler' total toll of murders because as far as I remember this post is on Jews not on the others, and besides the Jewish Holocasut or the toll of murders of Hitlers Reign isn't the greatest crim of the 20 th century, because Stalin killed about 20 million, and Mao Zeatoung, (counting the Great Leap Foward) som 30-40 million, so in numbers it wasn't the Greatest crime in History. As if other Genocides weren't cruel, all of the deaths in all genocides were killed in bestial manners.


I see your genocide is as big as mine....

*sigh*

Another thing I should add is that you don't see so many memorials for the others who died like gypsies, gays, disabled etc, isn't that a bit odd, or for those who died in other Genocides like Stalin's Purges, you don't see some massive monument lik that one in Berlin commemorating those who were murdered. You don't see memorials for the innocent,(not referring to some crazy muslim fundemantilists) arabs who died in wars against Israel, as they seem inable to make a distinction between civilian and military, something which the Tormenter of the Jews(Hitler) wasn't able to do. Maybe this isn't a genocide true, or that brutal, but they are still crime against humanity, and the West should realise the fact that if they don't want crimes against humanity, they have to treat everyone fairly.
This means giving the Palestians land and recognising them as a state too, not only Israel, and then war will stop. And not through the UN, because the UN is a slow beuracratic capitalist system, in which a Large Country can veto a desicion, for its own advantage. You don't sanction the populations, that only increase hatred, you tackle the problem from its roots. If you need to send 10,000 troops send them, if you need 100,000 send them, if you need 1,000,000, send them, so they can send the troublemakers to hell, thats how you solve problems, through just action, after you tried all the other possibilities, not by begging them, or appeasing them but by showing them they are doing wrong. If people want to stop hearing about Israel, Palestine, Iraq, Iran and all the other stuff, eliminate the root problems, this means biased, corrupt, unjust, bearucratic and capitialist policies of most of the World and we will get somewhere, when you don't turn on the news and see some kid with an AK-47, or some destroyed pile of rubble, through Order, Dicipline and Justice.

I have to say that I believe the numbers to be inflated. That doesn't change the horror of the atrocities committed, though.


Yea? You and Mel Gibson both.

But we are talking about Jews not gypsys, or disabled etc, I was referring to the Jewish Holocaust, not Hitler' total toll of murders because as far as I remember this post is on Jews not on the others, and besides the Jewish Holocasut or the toll of murders of Hitlers Reign isn't the greatest crim of the 20 th century, because Stalin killed about 20 million, and Mao Zeatoung, (counting the Great Leap Foward) som 30-40 million, so in numbers it wasn't the Greatest crime in History. As if other Genocides weren't cruel, all of the deaths in all genocides were killed in bestial manners.

No genocide was ever carried out with such precision and systematics. The Jews are also a world minority and nearly half of them were wiped out. Thousands of years of European Jewish culture were burned away in the ovens. The lead up to the actual killings, the discrimnatory laws, the propoganda, the final solution. It was unprecendented.

Jews don't go around flaunting the Holocaust as "the best genocide out of all the others." Like i've said already, we use the Holocaust as an example of what such hatred and propoganda can lead to so that we don't let it happen again. One more time..Holocaust Museum website and many Jewish organizations are on the forefront of bringing more attention to Darfur.

Another thing I should add is that you don't see so many memorials for the others who died like gypsies, gays, disabled etc, isn't that a bit odd, or for those who died in other Genocides like Stalin's Purges, you don't see some massive monument lik that one in Berlin commemorating those who were murdered. You don't see memorials for the innocent,(not referring to some crazy muslim fundemantilists) arabs who died in wars against Israel, as they seem inable to make a distinction between civilian and military, something which the Tormenter of the Jews(Hitler) wasn't able to do. Maybe this isn't a genocide true, or that brutal, but they are still crime against humanity, and the West should realise the fact that if they don't want crimes against humanity, they have to treat everyone fairly.
This means giving the Palestians land and recognising them as a state too, not only Israel, and then war will stop. And not through the UN, because the UN is a slow beuracratic capitalist system, in which a Large Country can veto a desicion, for its own advantage. You don't sanction the populations, that only increase hatred, you tackle the problem from its roots. If you need to send 10,000 troops send them, if you need 100,000 send them, if you need 1,000,000, send them, so they can send the troublemakers to hell, thats how you solve problems, through just action, after you tried all the other possibilities, not by begging them, or appeasing them but by showing them they are doing wrong. If people want to stop hearing about Israel, Palestine, Iraq, Iran and all the other stuff, eliminate the root problems, this means biased, corrupt, unjust, bearucratic and capitialist policies of most of the World and we will get somewhere, when you don't turn on the news and see some kid with an AK-47, or some destroyed pile of rubble, through Order, Dicipline and Justice.

Again...go start another thread if you wanna go off on Israel for what you deem to be unjust capitalist policies.

Perhaps you would rather exert your communist policies on the whole of the world. You just mentioned Stalin and Mao, two run of the mill communists. Perhap their policies would work better for our world. I just read somewhere that they were responsible for the death of countelss Millions...oh wait, I heard that from you!

No genocide was ever carried out with such precision and systematics. The Jews are also a world minority and nearly half of them were wiped out. Thousands of years of European Jewish culture were burned away in the ovens. The lead up to the actual killings, the discrimnatory laws, the propoganda, the final solution. It was unprecendented.

Yes, it was an unpresedented evil, impossible before the industrial revolution, mass transport, mass media and modern bureaucracy...

We have seen the horrors and must not forget the dangers we face

Yes, it was an unpresedented evil, impossible before the industrial revolution, mass transport, mass media and modern bureaucracy...

We have seen the horrors and must not forget the dangers we face


and yet we never seem to react quickly enough to stop another atrocity
Rwanda, Darfur, Bosnia, East Timor, Cambodia. Why is the world so impotent to stop these massacres?

and yet we never seem to react quickly enough to stop another atrocity
Rwanda, Darfur, Bosnia, East Timor, Cambodia. Why is the world so impotent to stop these massacres?

free riding.... collective action problem...

and yet we never seem to react quickly enough to stop another atrocity
Rwanda, Darfur, Bosnia, East Timor, Cambodia. Why is the world so impotent to stop these massacres?

Because the UN is too busy writing resolutions condemning Israel to deal with the real tragedies of our times.

free riding.... collective action problem...
:confused: ........wha?

Because the UN is too busy writing resolutions condemning Israel to deal with the real tragedies of our times.

I sense a lot of anger....

:confused: ........wha?

OK must go so haven't got the tiime for an extensive explanation

Free riding: someone has to pay the costs in assets, funds and risk of Human life. While all nations benefit from an orderly peacefull world... (less refugees, terror etc..).. Nation rather have others pay for these costs..

The problems of freeriding form a collective action problem: they make collective action difficult.

See it as a prisoner's dillema

I sense a lot of anger....


You sensed wrong, it was more sadness. It saddens me to see the genocide in Darfur and the other atrocities being ignored by the world, while all their energy and time has been dedicated to condemning Israel and pumping money to the PA which seems to have trouble feeding their children but an easy time getting more weapons for their Jihad against Israel. The world has definately lost its head...and it worries me..

Again...go start another thread if you wanna go off on Israel for what you deem to be unjust capitalist policies.

Perhaps you would rather exert your communist policies on the whole of the world. You just mentioned Stalin and Mao, two run of the mill communists. Perhap their policies would work better for our world. I just read somewhere that they were responsible for the death of countelss Millions...oh wait, I heard that from you!

I am no Communist, I am no Stalinist, if anything I only believe more on a left-aligned economic system, not leftist beliefs. Just because I am against heavy capitilasim doesn't mean I am communist. Capitalism today is the system when the most important thing is gain gain gain, there is no restraint today, thats why I shun that system, because it is one of the major reasons why there is the kind of suffering there is today (ie.Africa food shortage, Conflicts in Middle East). In most Capitalist countries we see people exploiting others, maybe not by mudering them to work or by killing them like under Stalin and Hitler, no, but by working them for long hours, under-paid, so they can go sell their damned chocolate to the world, and then they grow fat with money, that is what capitalism is today, money, money,money.
And altough you may seem to think that I am some anti-semite Communist or encouraging a pogrom against them I am not, but the fact remains that PALESTINE HAS A RIGHT TO EXIST, but not with the annilation of Israel, but by co-existing peacfully with it, thats what I wish for not to destroy Israel or burn the Jews. Actually I am more Pro-Israel tha Pro-Arab on most of the issues of the Middle-East, but if there is no Palestine there is no Peace. But more importantly if there is a weak attitutude and full-blodded support to Israel, you will gain the hatred of the Arabs and the only thing you can expect is some terrorist attack, it is almost as the West fears Israel, or as if they are gaining some valuable resource from it since that is what they do best, so it is quite unacceptable to be fully Pro-Israel, since altough they have suffered a great lot over the past decades, some of their actions aren't justificable, even if their foes capture some of their soldiers, you don't invade a country and threaten the already unstable condition of the area for three soldiers.

Sins of the father.

...and besides the Jewish Holocasut or the toll of murders of Hitlers Reign isn't the greatest crim of the 20 th century, because Stalin killed about 20 million, and Mao Zeatoung, (counting the Great Leap Foward) som 30-40 million, so in numbers it wasn't the Greatest crime in History.
Stalin's purges and especially the figures for Mao always count victims of famines and the like. Say what you will about the two men, but I don't think that destroying their countries with famines was anything more than an unintended consequence of their crackpot programs. With perhaps the exception of the Holodomor, which may have had a bit of an element of intention to it.
Not to forget that Stalin had three decades to kill as many people, while the Nazis did it in a much shorter time.

As if other Genocides weren't cruel, all of the deaths in all genocides were killed in bestial manners.
The Holocaust was the first and so far only industrialised mass murder in history. Unlike Stalin's purges or all the rest, the victims weren't treated like criminals, or traitors...they were treated like animals. Less than animals, even.
It was the application of modern society and technology to a crime that would have been one of the worst even without it. But with this sort of infrastructure that was not only murderous, but absolutey demeaning to the victims, I'd certainly rate it as the worst, even if the pure figures don't indicate as much.

I mean, the German constitution's first paragraph these days says "The dignity of a human being shall be inviolable." Why do you think they chose that, and not "no genocides" or "no murders"?
Because the Holocaust didn't so much attack the lives of its victims as it ended up depriving them of every last shred of dignity before killing them.

Another thing I should add is that you don't see so many memorials for the others who died like gypsies, gays, disabled etc, isn't that a bit odd...
Not really. I agree that the memorial in Berlin shouldn't have been for Jewish victims exclusively, but that's the way it was conceived and designed by its creators.
But pretty much all of the little memorials that you can see around the country refer to all the victims of the Holocaust, as do indeed the memorials at the concentration camp sites.

...or for those who died in other Genocides like Stalin's Purges, you don't see some massive monument lik that one in Berlin commemorating those who were murdered.
Whether or not there is a memorial for Stalin's victims is primarily a matter for the Russians to decide, just like it is with the Turks and the Armenians.
The Germans have faced what happened in the past and genuinely tried to atone for it. Perhaps that is unusual in history, but that doesn't make it any less worthwhile (which is not to say though that you can't take it too far at times).

You don't see memorials for the innocent,(not referring to some crazy muslim fundemantilists) arabs who died in wars against Israel, as they seem inable to make a distinction between civilian and military, something which the Tormenter of the Jews(Hitler) wasn't able to do.
That's just plain stupid. I agree that the IDF and their militias haven't always played by the rules of war and crimes have been committed, but comparing that to the Holocaust just makes you look silly.

Maybe this isn't a genocide true, or that brutal, but they are still crime against humanity, and the West should realise the fact that if they don't want crimes against humanity, they have to treat everyone fairly.
Meaning that if Arabs die in a Jewish attack, they need big memorials? Are we going to get one for the Jewish victims of Arab attacks then? Or would that just be needlessly taking up space.
You can't say "they're just like Hitler, just without the genocide part". Fact of the matter is that usually the IDF will not try to intentionally kill civilians (although IMHO they often don't do enough to prevent it), while many of its enemies (Hezbollah, Hamas, Al-Aqsa Martyrs etc) will try to do exactly that.

This means giving the Palestians land and recognising them as a state too, not only Israel, and then war will stop.
But they aren't a state. There is nothing to recognise. Their authority is weak and gets kicked by its own people who preferred to choose an organisation that doesn't want just a state, but that wants the whole of Israel to be destroyed.
At the moment, I have no idea who we should recognise as a state any more than we already to (I mean, not only do they have a rep in the UN, but their leaders get state visits, attend international conferences etc etc). Palestine is fucked up internally, and until they can get themselves sorted out, there can be no hope of some sort of lasting solution no matter how many concessions they get.

As for the actual topic of the thread...well, German Nightmare said everything that was worth saying.

As for the actual topic of the thread...well, German Nightmare said everything that was worth saying.
Thanks mate. Makes me want to quote one of the coolest guys:
I rule!