NationStates Jolt Archive

A trio of Mexican fishermen went fishing when a strong wind sent them into the open sea, both their engines quit and stayed adrift. They were rescued some hours ago by a Tawanese ship in the vicinity of the Marshall Islands. 8000 km (in a straight line) and nine months after they left port!

They survived by storing rain water and catching flying fish. I bet they won't complain about chicken ever again.

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/369033.html

A great tale of survival if you ask me.

English Version (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4798243.stm)

yeah they are lucky

Wow, just wow!

English Version (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4798243.stm)

yeah they are lucky
Thanks for providing the English version.

they can survive 9 months at sea with no food, a 3 day long trek through he burning desert, but they'll be dammed in hell if they can get past a 10-foot sheet metal fence
:rolleyes:

Those dudes are hard core.

Thats some good survival skills

Thanks for providing the English version.

anytime, i saw it on the Beeb while browsing NS so i thought that it'd be handy

You're right. Okay, we put landmines on the other side of the wall, and we fill the moat with alligators. Oh, and machine gun posts every three centimeteres along the wall.

The three shipwrecked mates took turns reading the Bible and praying together.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4798243.stm

The ACLU is protesting this, as it is a clear violation of the separation of church and fishing.

Ok, so what we need on the border is a 3 mile deep corn maze with 5 foot thick walls. If you get out at all, you can be a citizen.

The three shipwrecked mates took turns reading the Bible and praying together.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4798243.stm

The ACLU is protesting this, as it is a clear violation of the separation of church and fishing.

They are belived to be hiding over the mexican border

You're right. Okay, we put landmines on the other side of the wall, and we fill the moat with alligators. Oh, and machine gun posts every three centimeteres along the wall.

every three centimeters?

why do we need the wall and mines again?

every three centimeters?

why do we need the wall and mines again?

To protect against the Mongols.

To protect against the Mongols.
Gahdamn Mongorians, break down my shitty wall!

every three centimeters?

why do we need the wall and mines again?

Yes. Every three centimeters. We may have to enact a draft to man all of them, but it's a good investment to A) provide jobs and B) Keep them from stealing our jobs.

The walls and mines are to prevent illegal immigration by godfearing fishermen, who were clearly training for some sort of prolonged naval campaign against the US Coast Guard.

Gahdamn Mongorians, break down my shitty wall!

Homeland Security (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/Wiki_citywok2.jpg)

Yes. Every three centimeters. We may have to enact a draft to man all of them, but it's a good investment to A) provide jobs and B) Keep them from stealing our jobs.

But if building the wall will require so many laborers, who is going to do the jobs the conscripted workers left behind?

To protect against the Mongols.


I thought we had hot sweetn'sour pork for that:D

But if building the wall will require so many laborers, who is going to do the jobs the conscripted workers left behind?

Well we'll just have to invent robots to do it for us, then, won't we?

What part of we're America, we can do anything don't you get?

Well we'll just have to invent robots to do it for us, then, won't we?

What part of we're America, we can do anything don't you get?

B-but someone else has to build the robots, which requires even more workers...

How about increased coast guard patrols, and a 12 foot high concrete wall with electrified razer wire laced across the top. Along with increased border control by the national guard, army, and border control agents.

How about increased coast guard patrols, and a 12 foot high concrete wall with electrified razer wire laced across the top. Along with increased border control by the national guard, army, and border control agents.


.....or a minefield

B-but someone else has to build the robots, which requires even more workers...

Damnit, we'll teach the kids to do it then. You don't seem to be getting the point here. We're America, not some lazy ass third world country no one can find on a map!

I love how people claim that illegals are taking surplus jobs when we have close to 15 million unemployed legal residents. Oh, we need that razer wire with the electric current fast.

How about increased coast guard patrols, and a 12 foot high concrete wall with electrified razer wire laced across the top. Along with increased border control by the national guard, army, and border control agents.

Wouldn't it be cheaper just to let them in to work?

How about increased coast guard patrols, and a 12 foot high concrete wall with electrified razer wire laced across the top. Along with increased border control by the national guard, army, and border control agents.

Are you thinking of a wall like this?

http://berlin-wall.org/bilder/b_mur1.jpg

Are you thinking of a wall like this?

http://berlin-wall.org/bilder/b_mur1.jpg

Berlin Wall? You're missing an essential point here. The commies built that wall to keep people in. We'd be building this wall to keep people out.

You're right. Okay, we put landmines on the other side of the wall, and we fill the moat with alligators. Oh, and machine gun posts every three centimeteres along the wall.

Then they will tunnel underneath. Or fly over. Or do the classic German, go around it.

Wouldn't it be cheaper just to let them in to work?

no. The risk of terrorism, stolen jobs, welfare costs, loss of taxable income, and degredation of social capital makes it not worth it at all. Are you putting profit before security?

Are you thinking of a wall like this?

http://berlin-wall.org/bilder/b_mur1.jpg
That keeps people in. This keeps people out. That makes them opposites.

no. The risk of terrorism, stolen jobs, welfare costs, loss of taxable income, and degredation of social capital makes it not worth it at all. Are you putting profit before security?

Are you putting security before liberty?

Then they will tunnel underneath. Or fly over. Or do the classic German, go around it.

That is why we put the army, cost guard, border control, and private agents to work. ALL of whom are armed.

That is why we put the army, cost guard, border control, and private agents to work. ALL of whom are armed.

Then when they come in from the north?

You're missing the point completely. The point is that Mexicans can get on a boat and enter through Alaska or Hawaii. Or go to Australia as an alternative.

Are you putting security before liberty?

No. There is no liberty to enter or exit the sovereign borders of our country whenever you choose. That liberty does not exist as a right. It has been allowed to exist, however, by a lack of law enforcement.

Then when they come in from the north?

The wall is there. With electrified razer wire.

Moral capital? What?

No. There is no liberty to enter or exit the sovereign borders of our country whenever you choose. That liberty does not exist as a right. It has been allowed to exist, however, by a lack of law enforcement.

Good answer.:)

You're missing the point at all. The point is that Mexicans can get on a boat and enter through Alaska or Hawaii. Or go to Australia as an alternative.

Or they could make it easier on themselves and enter in a legal way.

The wall is there. With electrified razer wire.

The tunneling question remains unanswered.

Now hold on. What's all this about stealing jobs? Aren't we supposed to be a free market economy? If they can provide equal services for less, then who are we to say they shouldn't? Are we becoming communists?

More importantly, do I get bonus points for comparing the US to commies because we won't allow illegal immigration?

Moral capital? What?

Allow line cutters in but keep the line. That is wrong.
Have an open border for al-queda. That is wrong.
Claim to have surplus jobs when 15 million people have no job. That is wrong.
have my healthcare costs and school taxes go up to pay for people who are here illegaly.
Moral capital. Social capital. Economic capital. All wasted on the aliens.

Now hold on. What's all this about stealing jobs? Aren't we supposed to be a free market economy? If they can provide equal services for less, then who are we to say they shouldn't? Are we becoming communists?

More importantly, do I get bonus points for comparing the US to commies because we won't allow illegal immigration?

YES! COMMUNISM!
*pounds an iron fist on desk*
The Return!

Or they could make it easier on themselves and enter in a legal way.
If there was one. It's impossible for a Mexican to emigrate legally to the US without marrying someone or being recruited by a US employer beforehand.

There are a couple of temporary programs, but very limited in numbers allowed.

The tunneling question remains unanswered.

I answered it twice.

Now hold on. What's all this about stealing jobs? Aren't we supposed to be a free market economy? If they can provide equal services for less, then who are we to say they shouldn't? Are we becoming communists?
More importantly, do I get bonus points for comparing the US to commies because we won't allow illegal immigration?

First of all they take jobs from blacks. That is one of the reasons why their unemployment rates are rising where others are falling. The free market economy assumes that every nation is sovereign. The US is not because we have no borders at the moment. The illegal mexicans create a net drag of BILLIONS in our economy. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

More imprtantly, the USA is trying to keep people out so that we can preserve our people's rights. The Soviet Union tried to keep people in so it could deny them their rights. That makes us opposites.

First of all they take jobs from blacks. That is one of the reasons why their unemployment rates are rising where others are falling. The free market economy assumes that every nation is sovereign. The US is not because we have no borders at the moment. The illegal mexicans create a net drag of BILLIONS in our economy. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

More imprtantly, the USA is trying to keep people out so that we can preserve our people's rights. The Soviet Union tried to keep people in so it could deny them their rights. That makes us opposites.
We're not a sovereign nation?

It's up for grabs then ... I declare myself King. :D

We're not a sovereign nation?

It's up for grabs then ... I declare myself King. :D

ALL PRAISE KING GINNORIA!!! :D

ALL PRAISE KING GINNORIA!!! :D
You can be a noble, if you want ... how does Illinois sound, for an estate?

Who wants to be Court Jester?

You can be a noble, if you want ... how does Illinois sound, for an estate?

Who wants to be Court Jester?

Hmmm, count of Illinois...

I'll turn the mafia into my Private Army :p

Is the mafia still around? :confused:

You can be a noble, if you want ... how does Illinois sound, for an estate?

Who wants to be Court Jester?

I think Barry has a lock on that one.

And Barry, ol' chum. A wall like you want can be used to keep people in just as well as it can be used to keep "undesirables" out. They are NOT opposites, they are the same damned thing.

Screw the damned wall, I personally have no interest in living in Amerika. America is better than that shit.

YES! COMMUNISM!
*pounds an iron fist on desk*
The Return!

Ah yes. Because is worked so well for the USSR, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Jugoslavia, Hungary, East Germany, Albania, Ethiopia, Yemen, Afghanistan, Cambodia, Viet Nam, Laos, Cuba, China and North Korea...

(note: the ones still around are led by cults of personality or have adoped Capitalism...)

Further consider:

Communism is currently 3 for 18 (Laos, Cuba & NK) or perhaps 5 for 18 if you want to count China & Viet Nam as communist instead of dictatorial capitalist.

Even with 5 for 18, that's a .277 average.
The Kansas City Royals (the worst team in baseball at 36.5 games in back of 1st) have a .350 average.

How can you back such a losing ideology?

Ah yes. Because is worked so well for the USSR, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Jugoslavia, Hungary, East Germany, Albania, Ethiopia, Yemen, Afghanistan, Cambodia, Viet Nam, Laos, Cuba, China and North Korea...

(note: the ones still around are led by cults of personality or have adoped Capitalism...)

Further consider:

Communism is currently 3 for 18 (Laos, Cuba & NK) or perhaps 5 for 18 if you want to count China & Viet Nam as communist instead of dictatorial capitalist.

Even with 5 for 18, that's a .277 average.
The Kansas City Royals (the worst team in baseball at 36.5 games in back of 1st) have a .350 average.

How can you back such a losing ideology?
You forgot Mongolia. *nods*

*hint* note the sarcasm

We're not a sovereign nation?

It's up for grabs then ... I declare myself King. :D


We are a sovereign nation. We just don't act like it.

You forgot Mongolia. *nods*

It was effectively a part of the USSR ;)

First of all they take jobs from blacks. That is one of the reasons why their unemployment rates are rising where others are falling.

Hold on... What does this matter? We're America. Land of equality. That means all the minorities are equal.

The free market economy assumes that every nation is sovereign. The US is not because we have no borders at the moment.

Nobodies really sure where the US stops and Canada begins. At least five major wars have been fought over it.

The illegal mexicans create a net drag of BILLIONS in our economy. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

With nearly two-thirds of illegal aliens lacking a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, not their legal status or heavy use of most social services.

So we need to pressure Mexico into better education. Problem solved. Next.

More imprtantly, the USA is trying to keep people out so that we can preserve our people's rights. The Soviet Union tried to keep people in so it could deny them their rights. That makes us opposites.

We're denying our businesses the freedom to hire what they consider to be better workers. In addition, how much do you want to bet, the same wall would be used to stop anyone trying to illegally immigrate to Mexico?

And Barry, ol' chum. A wall like you want can be used to keep people in just as well as it can be used to keep "undesirables" out. They are NOT opposites, they are the same damned thing.

Screw the damned wall, I personally have no interest in living in Amerika. America is better than that shit.

Who is trying to illegaly enter Mexico and Canada? The wall would be to keep people out. There are no refugees seeking asylum in mexico. Nobody is running to Canada to get a job. Good grief.

We are a sovereign nation. We just don't act like it.

Damn, no Illinois for me :(

You forgot Mongolia. *nods*

http://static.flickr.com/21/99388284_d9f09e3e51_m.jpg

It was effectively a part of the USSR ;)
Not on the map, though ... anyway, how dare you contradict your monarch?! SILENCE! :p

Hold on... What does this matter? We're America. Land of equality. That means all the minorities are equal.
No it does not.


Nobodies really sure where the US stops and Canada begins. At least five major wars have been fought over it.


Actualy the matter is very much settled. Lots of people know. Check out a map.


So we need to pressure Mexico into better education. Problem solved. Next.

LOL.

We're denying our businesses the freedom to hire what they consider to be better workers. In addition, how much do you want to bet, the same wall would be used to stop anyone trying to illegally immigrate to Mexico?
We deny businesses the right to feed kittens through wood chippers too. Whats your point? And as I have already said, illegal immigration is a net drag on our economy.

Not on the map, though ... anyway, how dare you contradict your monarch?! SILENCE! :p

yes my lord! *smacks himself*

No it does not.

Equality doesn't mean that the minorities are equal to each other? So... what? Black's are better than Hispanics? Asians are better than Blacks?

Actualy the matter is very much settled. Lots of people know. Check out a map.

Then we have a border, no? Also, in case you couldn't tell, that was kinda a joke...

LOL.

Laugh all you like. It's a viable solution.

We deny businesses the right to feed kittens through wood chippers too.

Really? What law is that?

Equality doesn't mean that the minorities are equal to each other? So... what? Black's are better than Hispanics? Asians are better than Blacks?
Then we have a border, no? Also, in case you couldn't tell, that was kinda a joke...
Laugh all you like. It's a viable solution.


All groups are different and have their stregnths and weaknesses. But people who are here illegaly are not treated on the same level as those who are. The reason is that they have no viable excuse to be part of the population.
We have a border but no enforcement. Huge security gap.
Begging the mexicans to educate their people is worthless as a solution. They have had the same rinky dink system in Mexico for decades and it is not going anywhere. WE need to enforce OUR borders.

All groups are different and have their stregnths and weaknesses. But people who are here illegaly are not treated on the same level as those who are. The reason is that they have no viable excuse to be part of the population.
We have a border but no enforcement. Huge security gap.
Begging the mexicans to educate their people is worthless as a solution. They have had the same rinky dink system in Mexico for decades and it is not going anywhere. WE need to enforce OUR borders.

That doesn't explain why it was significant that it was blacks who are having their jobs stolen.

Who said anything about begging? I say we do what we always do when Mexico screws up. March across their border, occupy their capital, and make them do it.

March across their border, occupy their capital, and make them do it.

While the country is at the edge of Civil War? Sounds like pretty stupid to me...

That doesn't explain why it was significant that it was blacks who are having their jobs stolen.

Who said anything about begging? I say we do what we always do when Mexico screws up. March across their border, occupy their capital, and make them do it.

The blacks are here legally.
An invasion of mexico is not a plausable solution. They have little of value. Not even much oil. :D

Not even much oil. :D

Not even much oil (http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/Mexico/Background.html)! :eek:

Who is trying to illegaly enter Mexico and Canada? The wall would be to keep people out. There are no refugees seeking asylum in mexico. Nobody is running to Canada to get a job. Good grief.


Read what I said: And Barry, ol' chum. A wall like you want can be used to keep people in just as well as it can be used to keep "undesirables" out. They are NOT opposites, they are the same damned thing.
I said COULD. And with the upcoming plan to have us use a passport just to go to Canada means they can use a wall to keep anyone the government doesn't want to leave the US from doing so. Seems to me, that the USG is looking for still another way, beyond biometric drivers licenses, to keep track of American citizens.

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door"

Hard to breathe free when you are being hemmed in by a bunch of walls.

Not even much oil (http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/Mexico/Background.html)! :eek:

ah, but while it might be important in their pitiful economy they only produce about half us much as the US does, which is not much. Not as much as we could, anyway.

The blacks are here legally.

Still doesn't explain why you needed to bring their ethnicity into it. You could have just said they're stealing American jobs.

An invasion of mexico is not a plausable solution. They have little of value. Not even much oil. :D

Relieving that huge a strain on our system, and ensuring a steady flow of educated workers isn't valuable?

Read what I said: I said COULD. And with the upcoming plan to have us use a passport just to go to Canada means they can use a wall to keep anyone the government doesn't want to leave the US from doing so. Seems to me, that the USG is looking for still another way, beyond biometric drivers licenses, to keep track of American citizens.



Hard to breathe free when you are being hemmed in by a bunch of walls.

It is not the government looking for it, it is the people. Most people want a national ID card. Most people want tougher enforcement of the borders. Less illegal immigration. Less legal immigration. Make it harder to cross that border.

Still doesn't explain why you needed to bring their ethnicity into it. You could have just said they're stealing American jobs.



Relieving that huge a strain on our system, and ensuring a steady flow of educated workers isn't valuable?

You are right, I could have said "American jobs" too. I was trying to be more specific. We cannot force mexico to do anything. They can't even elect a leader for crying out loud.

It is not the government looking for it, it is the people. Most people want a national ID card. Most people want tougher enforcement of the borders. Less illegal immigration. Less legal immigration. Make it harder to cross that border.

Um, wha?
Most people do NOT want a national ID card, nor do they want less legal immigration. Heck, even illegal immigration isn't much better than 50/50 depending on who you talk to.

Personally, I agree that the border needes to be better secured (though it is a lot better than it was... I remember people just running across it into San Diego in the 80s). However, the US NEEDS immigrants. It always has, and it always will.

You are right, I could have said "American jobs" too. I was trying to be more specific. We cannot force mexico to do anything. They can't even elect a leader for crying out loud.

Did you see the 2000 US election? :rolleyes:

Um, wha?
Most people do NOT want a national ID card, nor do they want less legal immigration. Heck, even illegal immigration isn't much better than 50/50 depending on who you talk to.

Gracias Markreich. You beat me to it.

And before anyone tries linking to a poll. Don't bother. Polls don't mean shit.

Um, wha?
Most people do NOT want a national ID card, nor do they want less legal immigration. Heck, even illegal immigration isn't much better than 50/50 depending on who you talk to.

Personally, I agree that the border needes to be better secured (though it is a lot better than it was... I remember people just running across it into San Diego in the 80s). However, the US NEEDS immigrants. It always has, and it always will.

Harris poll, february 2006:

64% support a national I.D. card
34% oppose it

Fox news poll Jult 2006:
51% want less legal immigration
24% want more

Did you see the 2000 US election? :rolleyes:

yeah, it was solved within 36 days.

Mexico is at 45 days and not even about to be solved.

. Polls don't mean shit.

to liberal activists who are on the losing end of so many of them.

You are right, I could have said "American jobs" too. I was trying to be more specific. We cannot force mexico to do anything. They can't even elect a leader for crying out loud.

An occupying force in your capital is great incentive to get to work.

yeah, it was solved within 36 days.

Mexico is at 45 days and not even about to be solved.

You are aware that in many countries vote counting takes that long, yeah?
BTW, I wouldn't brag about the 36 day figure, as about 50% of the nation didn't agree with it.
(No, I don't want to re-hash NS's 10000000 pages of 2000 election debate. I'm just pointing out that the US is hardly head and shoulders above Mexico in the "timely and decisively chosing a leader" category.)

to liberal activists who are on the losing end of so many of them.

I am neither bud. I am one of those libertarians so despised by both liberals and conservatives. You should check up on people before you try to insult them.

Now, most of these polls run what, 1000 to 10,000 people? Out of a population of roughly 300 million? Explain to me how you can figure that those numbers are representative of the US? I've noticed that most polls are fairly stilted too, in that they tend to phrase questions in such a way that you can only answer the way the poll maker wants you to. So I stand by my belief that polls are shit.

Thank you very much, call my agent, we'll do lunch. Love ya babe, love ya.:cool:

Who is trying to illegaly enter Mexico and Canada? The wall would be to keep people out. There are no refugees seeking asylum in mexico. Nobody is running to Canada to get a job. Good grief.
Erm... not very knowledgeable of migration issues, are you? There are and estimated 200 to 300,000 illegal immigrants in Canada, which is a considerable amount given the size of the population. Granted, there are relatively more in the US, but Canada is helped by a much less restrictive migratory law. There are also 220 - 250,000 people who arrive legally to Canada each year looking for jobs.

Hundreds of thousands also enter Mexico illegaly on their way to the US, and of those a good number (although there are no official figures) stay in Mexico. Although Mexico is not the first choice to ask for refuge (the first three choices are the UK, Canada and the US) it has received a number of them, from the time of the Spanish Civil war (before the refugees convention was signed), to political refugees from Chile and the displaced from Guatemala and other Central American countries.

It'd be good if you actually learned a bit about the theme you seem so happy to discuss.

yeah, it was solved within 36 days.

Mexico is at 45 days and not even about to be solved.
In Mexico the president takes office 5 months after the election. No reason to rush it. And there seems to be very little doubt, there was very little doubt from the very beginning that Calderón won the election. The opposition party is just trying to stall things and create as much trouble as it can.

Harris poll, february 2006:

64% support a national I.D. card
34% oppose it

Fox news poll Jult 2006:
51% want less legal immigration
24% want more

Um... you are aware that Harris is an OPINION poll and is non-scientific, right?
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/partner/bycountry.asp
...so please post this poll you cite and where it actually was drawn from.

And please don't try to pass Fox News off as a neutral source. Just as Fox watchers usually don't listen to NPR, the reverse is true.

And here my friend's boyfriend got caught by immigration and is being deported. She's hoping they deport him sooner than later so he can hurry up and get back here. :rolleyes:

I suggested the use of a spycam in his lapel so that we could watch his progress.