NationStates Jolt Archive

It appears that Feng Shui (or ancient Chinese geomancy) is becoming increasingly popular in the USA. Some Feng Shui practitioners claim that what they do is science.

I disagree.

Here is my detailed rebuttal (http://freshbrainz.blogspot.com/2006/08/feng-shui-science.html) of that claim.

I am not disputing that some aspects of Feng Shui may be helpful, for example the aesthestics and ergonomics of furniture arrangement. However, Feng Shui experts insist on the existence of Qi to explain effects on the wealth and well-being of people, in a metaphysical realm. There is also no standardized quantifiable way for measuring Qi or its effects.

Despite these and other predictive power issues, Feng Shui is extremely popular in China and other Asian countries. Feng Shui experts charge a tidy sum of money for their consulting services. This is a multimillion dollar industry with numerous large players involved in the design of large-scale construction projects.

I am bringing this issue to the good people of NSG, because some observers have compared the Feng Shui vs Science debate in China to the Intelligent Design vs Science debate in the USA.

So, in your opinion, is Feng Shui a science?

ID at least has philosophy and the fact that you can't really completely disprove it. Feng Shui is just pseudoscience.

Penn and Teller said all there was to feng shui in about 15 minutes. Watch it and make your own judgement. Seems to me it's just nature's way of telling you that you make too much money.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4384809805301957615

ID at least has philosophy and the fact that you can't really completely disprove it. Feng Shui is just pseudoscience.

Actually you can't really disprove Feng Shui neither. The Qi is different from location to location, time to time. To generate a testable prediction... erm...

As for quantifying the enhancement to one's health, that erm...

To make it fuzzier, discrepancies can be attributed to the inexperience of the Feng Shui practitioner, or the poor quality of Luo Pan. Feng Shui companies are trying to debunk their competitors as "superstition" and promote their own brand as "science".

Actually you can't really disprove Feng Shui neither. The Qi is different from location to location, time to time. To generate a testable prediction... erm...

As for quantifying the enhancement to one's health, that erm...

To make it fuzzier, discrepancies can be attributed to the inexperience of the Feng Shui practitioner, or the poor quality of Luo Pan. Feng Shui companies are trying to debunk their competitors as "superstition" and promote their own brand as "science".

All you have to do is establish definitive claims. Check out the JREF (http://www.randi.org), or CSICOP, they make tests for this sort of thing all the time.

Penn and Teller said all there was to feng shui in about 15 minutes. Watch it and make your own judgement. Seems to me it's just nature's way of telling you that you make too much money.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4384809805301957615

Yes, I've watched the video before, but Feng Shui masters can claim that these are probably poorly trained apprentices.

Not like anyone can really differentiate the experts from the novices. Or charlatans.

I think one reason why Feng Shui appears to work is because only the rich can afford this service anyway. :D

It's fucking architecture

Penn and Teller said all there was to feng shui in about 15 minutes. Watch it and make your own judgement. Seems to me it's just nature's way of telling you that you make too much money.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4384809805301957615
I'm not sure I can get to the end of this. It's just embarrassing to watch. :(

If Feng Shui is a science, then where are the empirical studies? It sounds like a bunch of BS to me.

I'm not sure I can get to the end of this. It's just embarrassing to watch. :(

Yeah I know what you mean. When I watched it during some parts I actually had to minimize the window and leave the sound going. :p

The practitioners were so... owned.

Yeah I know what you mean. When I watched it during some parts I actually had to minimize the window and leave the sound going. :p

The practitioners were so... owned.
I managed to get to the end, but yes, I had to minimise and read the BBC site at a couple of key moments. One of them was a woman explaining how exposure to red sofas would cause the family health problems in the mouth and chest.

$3000? Lady, :upyours:

My grandmother told me that putting a mirror opposite a door or window would bounce teh luck out of the house. One of my chinese friends' grandmothers told her exactly the same thing. Coincidence? You decide!!!!!!

(I don't drink bottled water either).

$3000? Lady, :upyours:

You are just jealous b/c you didn't think of it.

You are just jealous b/c you didn't think of it.
I have more dignity.

I have more dignity.

At $15,000 a week I wouldn't need dignity. Feng-shui here I come.

(red is very lucky).

My grandmother told me that putting a mirror opposite a door or window would bounce teh luck out of the house. One of my chinese friends' grandmothers told her exactly the same thing. Coincidence? You decide!!!!!!

(I don't drink bottled water either).

I wouldn't put a mirror opposite a door. After playing PS2 horror games all day and night, I prefer not to see a face when I enter my room.

Especially my own.

I wouldn't put a mirror opposite a door. After playing PS2 horror games all day and night, I prefer not to see a face when I enter my room.

Especially my own.

Thank you. That's $350 plz.

It appears that Feng Shui (or ancient Chinese geomancy) is becoming increasingly popular in the USA. Some Feng Shui practitioners claim that what they do is science.

-snip-

So, in your opinion, is Feng Shui a science?

The good people over at Skepdic.com have this to say (in part):

Feng shui is related to the very sensible notion that living with rather than against nature benefits both humans and our environment. It is also related to the equally sensible notion that our lives are deeply affected by our physical and emotional environs. If we surround ourselves with symbols of death, contempt and indifference toward life and nature, with noise and various forms of ugliness, we will corrupt ourselves in the process. If we surround ourselves with beauty, gentleness, kindness, sympathy, music and various expressions of the sweetness of life, we ennoble ourselves as well as our environment.

http://skepdic.com/fengshui.html

No. It's not a science. It's common sensical interior design and architecture.

At $15,000 a week I wouldn't need dignity. Feng-shui here I come.

(red is very lucky).

You know, Tactical Grace, I think WDGann may be right.

Here is a multimillionaire Feng Shui master (http://www.joeyyap.com/aboutJoey/whoisJoeyYap.asp) who is the CEO of his own college-like Feng Shui school that has overseas branches. He also owns a number of other businesses.

And he is 27.

Suddenly I feel every joint in my body ache. :(

Thank you. That's $350 plz.

Let me check my wallet first... no... still $23.

The good people over at Skepdic.com have this to say (in part):



http://skepdic.com/fengshui.html

No. It's not a science. It's common sensical interior design and architecture.

Where's the part about the Five Arts, Ba Zi, Luo Pan and Qi?

Let me check my wallet first... no... still $23.

See, making money off this thing is harder than it looks. Maybe we should not be so quick to criticize.

Fung Shui is bullshit. (http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=4384809805301957615&q=bullshit+fung)

Fung Shui is bullshit. (http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=4384809805301957615&q=bullshit+fung)

There are four words in your post. That is very unlucky.

There are four words in your post. That is very unlucky.

*Shifts chair backwards by four inches.*

Nope, still $23.

Where's the part about the Five Arts, Ba Zi, Luo Pan and Qi?That's just ancient marketing. People more readily believe in 'magic' than common sense.

No. Next question?

Xisla, option 5 is the best I have ever seen on a poll. Congratulations. :)

Feng-shui is just as much of a science as Frenology, or Astrology.
Its just as much of a science, as Scientology is a religion.

It's art.
And life is better for having it around.

Feng-shui is just as much of a science as Frenology, or Astrology.
Its just as much of a science, as Scientology is a religion.


I have images of Tom Cruise want your behind now....

Feng Shui is the Chinese version of interior design.

No it's not a science. But there is something to it beyond interior design, the psychological impact of arranging your home or business so that energy flows efficiently through it can have a real effect on your life, through your own will rather than a mystical force.

If a person believes it will work, than it pretty much will and you don't need to hire an expensive service to adjust your home, there are so many books out there to help you do it yourself.

A lot of it is instinctive and common sense, plants in corners to soften them, mirrors in dark nooks to reflect the light into them, if at all possible don't have your toilet directly facing the bathroom door (because that's just an unpleasant thing to look at every time you pass your bathroom!) etc.

I disagree.
So, in your opinion, is Feng Shui a science?
I agree with your disagreement. FS ought to be researched scientifically, though. As well as accupuncture and the like.

Feng Shui in its original form, minimizes the mythology and analogies. It's the damn greedy quacks who make up verbose garbage to enhance the whole "oriental" image - so that it fits the bill for those paying them for Feng Shui advice.

It seems to be a combination of common sense and psychology. Also they seem to have picked up on some definite correlations between certain home-decorating layouts and what they claim are "effects." But, I think they have likely leapt to conclusions when it comes to causality.

While I don't buy some of the things I've read (especially the concern about certain corners of the house affecting corresponding parts of the person's life), there are others that have been a definite help to me.

For instance, I read on a feng shui site that it interferes with sleep to put shoes under a bed. I had been having trouble sleeping, and I remembered that my shoes often end up kicked under the bed when I walk by it (I never "put" my shoes under it, but when I walk by I'll give 'em a random shove to get them out of my way, and they end up there).

So I made a point to pull my shoes out from under there when I went to bed. I slept a lot better! Not "like a baby," but noticably better.

I can only guess that it's some kind of psychological effect. Or maybe even placebo effect just from reading that. But, I don't care. Moving my shoes out is an easy thing, and as long as I sleep better with 'em out from under there, I'll keep on making sure to put them out into the room at bedtime. And now, whenever I find myself inexplicably sleeping poorly, I look and see what's been shoved under the bed. Usually there will be something that doesn't belong.

I have also noticed that the claim about blocking the front door with furniture equalling a blocking of energy into the house seems to be true on the surface level. But I think it'd be more accurate to say that there's a correlation rather than there being a causality relationship.
I think the door-blocking is a *symptom,* not a cause, of some (probably psychological) problem(s) in the household. I used to deliver pizzas, and ended up seeing the houses of a few people who did this (they used the side or back door for entry instead). The people who have this setup DO have a de-energized/depressed demeanor about them! And, the houses were definitely more dreary than the average. But like I said, I think the blocked door is a symptom of some other problem, and it'll take more than moving their chair (and it was usually a really big chair) out of the way to fix it.

As for feng shui being a science, no. But it may be a good place to start from to explore some psychological theories.

ID at least has philosophy and the fact that you can't really completely disprove it.
The fact that ID puts forth no falsifiable hypotheses is precisely why it is not science.

And Feng Shui is junk superstition for bored rich people. It is an embarassment that we even discuss the possibility that it might be science.

The fact that ID puts forth no falsifiable hypotheses is precisely why it is not science.

And Feng Shui is junk superstition for bored rich people. It is an embarassment that we even discuss the possibility that it might be science.
Well, feng shui might qualify as science in Kansas, since they redefined the word to include sky fairies, though I imagine those Kansas legislators would object to feng shui as being pagan or something (thus proving they know nothing about either science or mythology).

Well, feng shui might qualify as science in Kansas, since they redefined the word to include sky fairies, though I imagine those Kansas legislators would object to feng shui as being pagan or something (thus proving they know nothing about either science or mythology).
It'll be a cold day in Hell before I let Kansas define words for me. :D

Would that the South would rise again, and take Kansas along with them...

It'll be a cold day in Hell before I let Kansas define words for me. :D

Would that the South would rise again, and take Kansas along with them...Hey now, there are plenty of us here in the south who'd rather not see that happen. ;)

Hey now, there are plenty of us here in the south who'd rather not see that happen. ;)
I suppose I shouldn't be so quick to abandon my brave comrads to the south...but really, can you blame me? I thought our side was supposed to have WON the Civil War! So why the hell do our "winnings" look suspiciously like a bunch of third-world theocracies that are ungratefully leeching off our federal support system?

Although, to get a bit back on topic, Northern yuppies are the ones to blame for bringing in nonsense like Feng Shui and crystals and so forth. So I know we're far from perfect up here.

Feng Shui is sensible design, but not science. Back in the old days people didn't have an understanding of psychology, behavioural science, and the like to explain why something looked good or made you feel good. So, they came up with explanations like Qi and such. Then the quacks came and took it too far.

Penn and Teller said all there was to feng shui in about 15 minutes. Watch it and make your own judgement. Seems to me it's just nature's way of telling you that you make too much money.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4384809805301957615

I enjoyed the hell out of that. :)

I am not disputing that some aspects of Feng Shui may be helpful, for example the aesthestics and ergonomics of furniture arrangement. However, Feng Shui experts insist on the existence of Qi to explain effects on the wealth and well-being of people, in a metaphysical realm. There is also no standardized quantifiable way for measuring Qi or its effects.

So, in your opinion, is Feng Shui a science?
The practice of Feng Shui that incorporates "qi" is a relatively new one (one might call it a New Age version). Traditional Feng Shui is all about placement and meaning. It is a form of geomancy applied to architecture, where divinatory meaning is drawn from the specific and accidental placement of structures in relation to natural objects.

It is as much an ethnoscience as any other form of divination.

At $15,000 a week I wouldn't need dignity. Feng-shui here I come.
How many lawyers choose to work for a pittance for the state, when they could be earning big bucks working for private clients? And medical professionals who choose state, not private hospitals?

I am of the same mind. I have already chosen a career where I get to work in the general Public Interest, and I would make the same choice again, even in my dreams. More money? I'd simply have even more left over.

Hey now, there are plenty of us here in the south who'd rather not see that happen. ;)

Bingo.

Bottle, you're right - your win in the War of Northern Agression = your loss - you had to keep New York, New Jersey, et al. :p