NationStates Jolt Archive

So after 9/11 and the recently 'discovered' plots, there are proposals to selectively target certain groups because some members of these groups have histories in acts of terrorism.

Well you rednecks, chew on this short list after you're done with the tobacco leaves.

Timothy McVeigh
Butcher of Oklahoma City
He's a US citizen, a white male and served in the first Gulf War in the United States Army. He was at least partially responsible for Okalahoma City bombing.

Are you suggesting that all US Gulf War Vets should be treated as potential/likely terrorists? How about all war veterans? How about all white males?

Ted Kaczynski
Mathematics professor turned hermit turned mail bomber terrorist known as 'UNABOMBER'. Sent multiple bombs on board airliners, nearly succeeded. Sent mail bombs to universities too.
US citizen, male. Do you want to profile anyone with a college education as a potential terrorists?
"Mr. X here has a MBA from Harvad, we should perform a cavity search!"
How about all white males?

Give it up, The Masses see through it. Profiling Arab males is ultimately a cheap political ploy, scare-mongering, 1984-style fear generation or plain old bigotry.

Wow, you found two white guys, meanwhile I can find 50+ arab terrorist that's been attacking USA since the Iran Hostage Crisis back in the 70's. :rolleyes:

Wow, you found two white guys, meanwhile I can find 50+ arab terrorist that's been attacking USA since the Iran Hostage Crisis back in the 70's. :rolleyes:

I'm sure the list can expanded by someone with more time.

So after 9/11 and the recently 'discovered' plots, there are proposals to selectively target certain groups because some members of these groups have histories in acts of terrorism.

Well you rednecks, chew on this short list after you're done with the tobacco leaves.
Sounds like you're doing some profiling of your own......

I'm sure the list can expanded by someone with more time.

Nah not really, unless you start adding in serial killers.

Nah not really, unless you start adding in serial killers.

Or members of the IRA.

Or members of the IRA.

Yea, well we're kinda dealing with the USA right now.

Or members of the IRA.

Nah not really, unless you start adding in serial killers.

Serial killers aren't terrorists. The IRA didn't exist to destroy the West.

David Koresh and the branch Davideans
Jim Jones
Aum Shinrikyo cult
Lords Resistence Army
Tamil Tigers
A myriad of marxist groups in europe
Carlos the Jackal

Yea, well we're kinda dealing with the USA right now.

Says who? Seems to me the qualifications was white Christian male who is a terrorist.

Serial killers aren't terrorists. The IRA didn't exist to destroy the West.

yea, I know, I was trying to demostrate how stupid it was to compare two white guys who were home grown terrorist to the 50+ arab terrorist that we've had since the Iran Hostage Situation.

The IRA didn't exist to destroy the West.

No, just Belfast. And to a lesser extent, London.

yea, I know, I was trying to demostrate how stupid it was to compare two white guys who were home grown terrorist to the 50+ arab terrorist that we've had since the Iran Hostage Situation.

Aum Shinrikyo cult, tokyo subway sarin gas attacks in 1995, that could have potentially killed more people than 9/11

sound familiar?

David Koresh and the branch Davideans
Jim Jones
Aum Shinrikyo cult
Lords Resistence Army
Tamil Tigers
A myriad of marxist groups in europe
Carlos the Jackal
The Tamil Tigers, the Aum Shinrikyo cult never attacked the West. They are part of a regional conflict. I seem to be having a tough time recalling the latest act of terrorism by commies. Carl was just a thug, he wasn't religiously motivated. You get people like him in any society.

The overwhelming threat to national security comes from Muslims, whether you like it or not.

Aum Shinrikyo cult, tokyo subway sarin gas attacks in 1995, that could have potentially killed more people than 9/11

sound familiar?

But you see, those didn't happen to America, so they don't count.

David Koresh and the branch Davideans

Not considered a terrorist, just a cult leader.


Jim Jones

another cult leader who pulled off a mass suicide.


Aum Shinrikyo cult

Cults generally are not on the same level as terrorist organization. I can start a cult, but that doesn't mean I'm a terrorist.


Lords Resistence Army

Yea that counts, but for a diffrent contient all together.


Tamil Tigers

Now this is a terrorist organization, not the cult ones.

A myriad of marxist groups in europe

specifiy please.

Carlos the Jackal

A terrorist.

Aum Shinrikyo cult, tokyo subway sarin gas attacks in 1995, that could have potentially killed more people than 9/11

sound familiar?
And Muslims are the ones most likely to attempt something like that.

The Tamil Tigers, the Aum Shinrikyo cult never attacked the West. They are part of a regional conflict. I seem to be having a tough time recalling the latest act of terrorism by commies. Carl was just a thug, he wasn't religiously motivated. You get people like him in any society.

The overwhelming threat to national security comes from Muslims, whether you like it or not.

Carlos hit an Israeli jet with an RPG because he ws sympathetic to the palestinians,
if an arab did the exct same thig you would calling for the banning of arabs from airport property

I have a proposition for you people who don't think we should profile. How about we stop the profiling, however the next time the USA is attack (and trust me it will happen) by a terrorist, and that terrorist is Arab. Do not post 500 threads about why wasn't he searched. Because I'll remind you that you didn't want him searched because profiling was wrong.

specifiy please.


red brigades in Italy
Red corps in Germany
Red army faction
it goes on and on and on

Carlos hit an Israeli jet with an RPG because he ws sympathetic to the palestinians,
if an arab did the exct same thig you would calling for the banning of arabs from airport property
Did I ever call for the banning of arabs from airports, despite the fact that they do instigate violence in the mid east? No, I merely said they should be checked to make sure they aren't a threat.

In the last terror plot that was foiled all 24 participants were Muslim, mostly of Pakistani descent. Same with the London bombers. The 911 highjackers were mostly from saudi arabia. Every once in a while you get someone who isn't a Muslim that does terrorist attacks, but most of the time it's muslims of mid east descent. Do you deny that?

Bah, if it had been a bunch of white american males who smacked down the towers in 9/11, the Americans would have laughed it off eventually, or forgotten about it instead of all this mass paranoia.

In fact, the reactions of much of the American public immediately after the Oklahama bombings, adds strength to that statement. Americans are all too willing to blame the 'evil outsider' than examine their own trash.

red brigades in Italy
Red corps in Germany
Red army faction
it goes on and on and on
Show me the links of their latest attacks, if any.

I have a proposition for you people who don't think we should profile. How about we stop the profiling, however the next time the USA is attack (and trust me it will happen) by a terrorist, and that terrorist is Arab. Do not post 500 threads about why wasn't he searched. Because I'll remind you that you didn't want him searched because profiling was wrong.

I consider myself a rational person,
I realize that a 20-year-old male, especially one of middle-eastern descent
is more likely to plot a terrorist attack than say,
a 78 year old grandma with rheumatoid arthritis
but I do not think we should wave everyone through security who is not an Arab/muslim

Bah, if it had been a bunch of white american males who smacked down the towers in 9/11, the Americans would have laughed it off eventually, or forgotten about it instead of all this mass paranoia.

In fact, the reactions of much of the American public immediately after the Oklahama bombings, adds strength to that statement. Americans are all too willing to blame the 'evil outsider' than examine their own trash.
The point was that 911 proved that radical Islam is trying to destroy America. If it was a bunch of white guys, no doubt they would have their own motives, and measures would be taken to prevent further attacks by disgruntled white males.

Yeah, because all Americans are fat, filthy, trashy, infidel pigs.

Show me the links of their latest attacks, if any.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades

hhmmm 14,000 attacks since 1970 and you said since the 1970s iranian revolution only arabs have commited attacks

I consider myself a rational person,
I realize that a 20-year-old male, especially one of middle-eastern descent
is more likely to plot a terrorist attack than say,
a 78 year old grandma with rheumatoid arthritis
but I do not think we should wave everyone through security who is not an Arab/muslim
Neither do I and most other people that are in favor of profiing. We should also take in account behavior. Thus, a white male should be searched every now and then, since after young arab men, we are the group most prone to terrorism. It's just that young arab men should be searched much more often.

Neither do I and most other people that are in favor of profiing. We should also take in account behavior. Thus, a white male should be searched every now and then, since after young arab men, we are the group most prone to terrorism. It's just that young arab men should be searched much more often.

thats pretty much the definetion of profiling well only arabs are capable of attacks so we shouldn't check anyone else

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades

hhmmm 14,000 attacks since 1970 and you said since the 1970s iranian revolution only arabs have commited attacks
Their heyday was in the 70s. Right now they are for all intents and purposes finished.

The point is to prevent future attacks, not to reminsce about past attacks.

Bah, if it had been a bunch of white american males who smacked down the towers in 9/11, the Americans would have laughed it off eventually, or forgotten about it instead of all this mass paranoia.

In fact, the reactions of much of the American public immediately after the Oklahama bombings, adds strength to that statement. Americans are all too willing to blame the 'evil outsider' than examine their own trash.
that's where you are wrong. if it was a bunch of White American Males, it wouldn't be forgotten nor will there not be mass paranoia.

and the fact you forget is all the survivors and those who lost loved ones, standing outside watching, waiting and keeping track as those responsible for the Oklahoma bombing were executed.

thats pretty much the definetion of profiling well only arabs are capable of attacks so we shouldn't check anyone else
Is that what I said? Not even close. I clearly stated that white males are also prone to terrorism, and it's not a bad idea to profile some of us.

Let's say we profile 9/10 young arab men, and 1/10 white men. Pretty fair considering the ration of terrorist attacks by arab men compared to white men.

Wow, you found two white guys, meanwhile I can find 50+ arab terrorist that's been attacking USA since the Iran Hostage Crisis back in the 70's. :rolleyes:

i found 14,000 white guys

i found 14,000 white guys
Or did you find 50 guys responsible for 14000 attacks?

first, not everyone who supports selective profililing is a stupid redneck (although most rednecks are stupid) second you've named 2 people. I don't remmeber the names of everyone who particpated in the following acts but I bet there's more than 2.
Iranian hostage crisis, bombing of the US barracks in Bearuit, first WTC bombing, the 2 embassy bombings, bombing of the US baracks in Saudia Arabia, USS Cole, and of course 9-11. And that's just attacks directly against the US. The list is longer if I bother to look up every plane hijacking in the last 30 years.

If we're not hurting them then there's nothing wrong with it.

If we're not hurting them then there's nothing wrong with it.


The chinese don't hurt people when they throw them in prison for 40+ years
for "counter-revolutionary activities"

So after 9/11 and the recently 'discovered' plots, there are proposals to selectively target certain groups because some members of these groups have histories in acts of terrorism.

Well you rednecks, chew on this short list after you're done with the tobacco leaves.

Timothy McVeigh
Butcher of Oklahoma City
He's a US citizen, a white male and served in the first Gulf War in the United States Army. He was at least partially responsible for Okalahoma City bombing.

Are you suggesting that all US Gulf War Vets should be treated as potential/likely terrorists? How about all war veterans? How about all white males?

Ted Kaczynski
Mathematics professor turned hermit turned mail bomber terrorist known as 'UNABOMBER'. Sent multiple bombs on board airliners, nearly succeeded. Sent mail bombs to universities too.
US citizen, male. Do you want to profile anyone with a college education as a potential terrorists?
"Mr. X here has a MBA from Harvad, we should perform a cavity search!"
How about all white males?

Give it up, The Masses see through it. Profiling Arab males is ultimately a cheap political ploy, scare-mongering, 1984-style fear generation or plain old bigotry.
Just because we scrutinize those of arab descent more closely does not mean we will be ignoring others. Everyone is scrutinized these days.

Just because we scrutinize those of arab descent more closely does not mean we will be ignoring others. Everyone is scrutinized these days.

thats all i've heard from the pro profiling crowd (excluding wilgrove)

"all terrorists are arabs"
"white men are incapable of such violence"
:P

thats all i've heard from the pro profiling crowd (excluding wilgrove)

"all terrorists are arabs"
"white men are incapable of such violence"
:P
I think you'll find that not everyone for profiling fits those two sentences.

red brigades in Italy
Red corps in Germany
Red army faction
it goes on and on and on

RAF is disbanded...

that's where you are wrong. if it was a bunch of White American Males, it wouldn't be forgotten nor will there not be mass paranoia.

Really now? So those news organizations saying it was "person or persons of arab background" within hours of the blast were just my imagination? And the backlash on Muslims never happened?

The actions of the American public before the real culprit was revealed only prove what I had to say. That in which they are more likely to blame the "evil outsider" than look for the real answer, in which examining their own trash might have given.



and the fact you forget is all the survivors and those who lost loved ones, standing outside watching, waiting and keeping track as those responsible for the Oklahoma bombing were executed.

Hah, the only reason why they did all that was because they finally had the real culprit at hand. If Timothy McVeigh had never been unvieled, it would have been the blame magnet of the day taking the heat, which were unsurprisingly, Muslims.

Would these same people have targetted white American males for their vengeance had Timothy McVeigh blown himself up, forever denying them direct revenge? Not likely.

But would they have targetted Muslims, or even Negroes, had the culprit been of either ethnic/religious group? Precendent argues that the answer is overwhelmingly yes.

Sounds like you're doing some profiling of your own......

I couldn't agree more. It's kind of funny when you see some of the arguments made here where the accuser commits the same acts as the accused. It's almost like watching a bunch of eight year olds cry who tagged who during a game in gym class.

Really now? So those news organizations saying it was "person or persons of arab background" within hours of the blast were just my imagination? And the backlash on Muslims never happened?but it was by person/persons of Arab Background. remember, many passengers were encouraged to call their loved ones from the plane. so there were Eye witnesses as to who was hijacking those planes. or are you going to say that everyone of those passengers were biased rednecks.

The actions of the American public before the real culprit was revealed only prove what I had to say. That in which they are more likely to blame the "evil outsider" than look for the real answer, in which examining their own trash might have given. and who was the real cuplrit? again you had eye witnesses on the plane phoning their loved ones as well as others... telling them WHAT WAS HAPPENING. We may not have known the true culprit, but we knew which people were involved.

Hah, the only reason why they did all that was because they finally had the real culprit at hand. If Timothy McVeigh had never been unvieled, it would have been the blame magnet of the day taking the heat, which were unsurprisingly, Muslims.wistfull speculation on your part only. can you show me any mainstream media article that definiatly pointed to Mulsims before McVeigh was identified?

Would these same people have targetted white American males for their vengeance had Timothy McVeigh blown himself up, forever denying them direct revenge? Not likely.maybe not WHITE American... but certainly people who lived similar lifestyles. say if he was a Religious fanatic, then I bet you alot of Religions would be looked at. Look at the backlash the NRA got after Columbine and the other school shootings... look at the game industries that also went under the microscope and still feel the affects of the "Violent Game" syndrome.

But would they have targetted Muslims, or even Negroes, had the culprit been of either ethnic/religious group? Precendent argues that the answer is overwhelmingly yes.no it doesn't. if McVeigh left a suicide note stating he was doing this in the name of the Flying Spagetti Monster, then yes, for a reason was given. if he said he did what he did because he felt sad for his Irish brethen fighting against the oppressors, then yes, those groups would be looked at because again, a reason was given.

so when tapes proclaiming the 9/11 pilots were doing this for Allah, I guess your first group to look at would be the Athiests... right. :rolleyes:

Pyotr, read carefully the posts by JuNii and RocktheCasbah. If you do, you'll realize that you're misquoting them. Rather badly.

Non Aligned States, you have a point. Americans (and everyone else in the world) are quick to blame outsiders. This does not invalidate the fact that many outsiders do want to kill Americans, it just shows that Americans are kind of paranoid about said outsiders. Neither does it show that Americans 'need to examine their own trash'. Clearly, there are bad people in America. I, personaly, am not shocked by this. Every now and again, an American will commit an act of terrorism or attempt to commit an act of terrorism. However, for every successful American terrorist, it is possible to find an extranational terrorist who either succeeded or was captured attempting to attack America. So I reiterate: we're paranoid.

If you think about it, this is reasonable to an extent. America has made itself massively unpopular in the Middle East, and we know from the bombing plots in England that Middle Eastern people are trying to attack us. In that sense, can you blame us for being a bit afraid?

but it was by person/persons of Arab Background. remember, many passengers were encouraged to call their loved ones from the plane. so there were Eye witnesses as to who was hijacking those planes. or are you going to say that everyone of those passengers were biased rednecks.

Damnit, I'm talking about the Oklahama city bombing and the reaction of the media and public after that. Stop dodging.


wistfull speculation on your part only. can you show me any mainstream media article that definiatly pointed to Mulsims before McVeigh was identified?


The FBI press release good enough for you?
http://www.courttv.com/archive/casefiles/oklahoma/documents/hearing2.html

The mainstream media would have picked that up. As for wistful thinking, the FBI and CIA went after Muslims first and foremost. Guess what the public did?


maybe not WHITE American... but certainly people who lived similar lifestyles. say if he was a Religious fanatic, then I bet you alot of Religions would be looked at. Look at the backlash the NRA got after Columbine and the other school shootings... look at the game industries that also went under the microscope and still feel the affects of the "Violent Game" syndrome.

Hah, so you admit that the racial profiling we see now wouldn't occur if it hadd been a White American who did it. Besides, what the NRA and games industry go through is nothing at all like what the average Muslim had to go through. Do NRA members get actively harrassed? Do game company employees get denied service because of their affiliation? Do either groups suffer from random acts of violence against them by self appointed vigilante groups?

If no, your examples fall flat on their face.

[QUOTE=JuNii]
no it doesn't. if McVeigh left a suicide note stating he was doing this in the name of the Flying Spagetti Monster, then yes, for a reason was given. if he said he did what he did because he felt sad for his Irish brethen fighting against the oppressors, then yes, those groups would[QUOTE=JuNii]

Hah, there was no tape when McVeigh did what he did. But people were all too willing to blame Muslims even without real evidence that it was them. Having a note would only have served to create a target. But without that target, guess who got hit?

Who was the first to get the blame when nobody knew who it was? Who was it to get the heat? The historical answer is the Muslim groups, because that's what people wanted to believe. Evil outsider mentality at work again.

You've offered nothing to dispute my argument. That without having the actual culprit, the American people would use the evil outsider mentality, and blame the ethnic group as a whole.

I think selective profiling does have its uses; in fact, the entire insurance and actuary industries thrive on profiling as the backbone of their business model and wouldn't work without it.

Profiling, if used, should work according to who poses the biggest threat to a particular institution. If, for example, the majority of people attacking a target were white men who look "rough" (there's not really a term to describe the appearance of men like McVeigh or the Unabomber) as is the case with bombs sent via mail or attacks on government institutions, then they should be profiled for those particular situations.

The same is true of young Arab men and airplanes; the bulk of terror attacks on planes have been committed by men of Middle Eastern descent and Muslim religious so security should be more aware and focus more intently on them if certain warning signs are present.

Damnit, I'm talking about the Oklahama city bombing and the reaction of the media and public after that. Stop dodging.

The FBI press release good enough for you?
http://www.courttv.com/archive/casefiles/oklahoma/documents/hearing2.html
you mean this?

Those, your Honor, are normally not people who called in and said, I did the bombing, but they're normally, "I think my brother-in-law was involved in the bombing," or "I think someone else was involved with the bombing," or "I think the Iraquis were involved with the bombing," or whatever the name of the nation. So that's been documented in those 302's which the defense has had since our beginning production in January.so you have a database of people calling in laying claims on various people including other nationals. you don't expect them to follow up on all of these calls?


Or this perhaps? the asking about Known terrorist groups out there with anti-USA feelings/agendas?
The defendants are requesting classified information just as they request other information about the case, hoping that there would be some tie to some other terrorist
organization. In fact, in their pleadings when they request information, it is so broad that they ask for any information on an individual or a group with a motive, means and/or opportunity and who or which has expressed a desire to injure or damage U.S. property, employees or citizens.
In other words, they are asking the Government to provide any information on terrorists or terrorist groups that they may have had a motive to harm the United States' interests. They attach to this request specific demands for information about the roles of Sudan and Iraq in the World Trade Center bombing, links or ties between German Neo-Nazi groups and the KK; the Christian Identity Movement; The Order; The Covenant, the Sword and the Arm of the Lord, and links to other terrorist organizations from Iran and Iraq. this was the Prosecution telling the judge that the DEFENSE was trying to look for some ties when none were established nor found. so you are against a person getting the best defense possible?

as is supported by the latter statement
Specifically, if the defense is claiming that the suspects or all potential suspects who could have bombed or harmed the United States are relevant,
yep... profiling... Done not by the Goverment but by McVeigh's Defense LAWYERS!

Your Honor, as a factual matter, the defense claims that the intelligence agencies participated and generated voluminous reports in connection with the Oklahoma City bombing case. That is not true.
Back on April 19, 1995, when the bombing occurred, the Federal Government put together its resources, including a representative from one of the intelligence agencies, to determine if we could find out who had organized and carried out this heinous bombing.
By April 21 -- that is, two days later -- the Government learned through the FBI's diligent investigation that the bombing had been carried out by a U.S. citizen; that a Ryder truck had been used, a VIN number had been traced, and Mr. McVeigh had been identified as the individual who rented that truck.
so... two days after the bombing, they had their suspect.

now here is the DEFENSE, not the Prosecution, but Defense... you know the guys trying to keep McVeigh alive...
We believe that we need this information to show that the Oklahoma City bombing of the Murrah building was planned, financed and executed by a foreign state or a terrorist group under the control of a foreign state and probably in connection with a domestic terrorist organization.

well, what do you expect for a Defense? of course they will try to pin it on someone else.

I am specifically seeking information that relates to the Republic of Iraq, to the Republic of Iran, Sudan, the connections, if any -- and I believe there are -- that exist between one or more of those groups and certain terrorist groups inside the United States and in the Federal Republic of Germany and in the United Kingdom. so the Defense team... in trying to keep McVeigh alive is pointing to Mid east countries. hardly the Government running profiles... and an acceptable tactic by the Defense IMHO.

but it is clear that when this bombing occurred, based upon the public record and statements made publicly by the President's Chief of Staff and by the director of the ATF and by FBI officials speaking on background basis only that the immediate attention of the investigation was focused on the Middle East.
Now, there is a reason why that was done. They didn't focus on Australia or south Asia or China or the former Soviet Union or some remote country in Africa. It was focused specifically on the Middle East; and the reason it was focused upon the Middle East is because there is evidence in existence in the public record, some of which we submitted to the Court and certainly private intelligence data -- and when I say "private," I suppose I should say classified intelligence data -- that one or more of the countries in those -- in that area have engaged in terrorist activities both abroad and in the United States against United States property, personnel and citizens. And that's documented in the chronology. ok, the first indications that it was thought to be a terrorist attack. at that time, yes, it was natural to look for any of those connections. but guess what... they didn't profile anyone. they still caught Nichols and McVeigh.

When Mr. McVeigh was arrested, it is certainly true, I believe, that that investigation was aborted and did not go any further.
even they admitted that the government stopped looking for ties when the culprit was apprehended.

As for persons unknown... that means that more people could be involved, and no, they don't say that the persons unknown is of mid east descent.
The Government has announced repeatedly an interest in pursuing a John Doe 2, an individual whose appearance suggests a Middle Eastern, Hispanic or perhaps American Indian complexion; an individual not yet found, but an individual that exists as certainly as I am standing here in front of you. gee.... Mid East, Hispanic or American Native complexion... nice broad stroke there... btw this is still the DEFENSE talking.

With respect to the general argument concerning Middle East terrorism, there are again other indications.
The FBI indicated in its statement to the press that eight groups claimed responsibility for the Murrah building, seven of whom were foreign and six of those apparently were Arabic or Muslim oriented.

so you have some groups claiming they did it... and yet McVeigh, and Nichols were caught. yep... a classic case of Looking only for foreigners first...

Now with six of these groups apparently Arabic or Muslim oriented, you DON'T EXPECT THEM TO INVESTIGATE MID EAST OR MUSLIM CONNECTIONS FIRST?

so far, the document shows that any "first look at Muslims" is being justified by what was presented... but let us continue, shall we?

oh... the Defense in a classic move everyone here is accusing Neocons of doing...
Now, clearly, although this may have occurred in what has been called the largest small town in America, let's not kid ourselves: The evidence is overwhelming that the United States has very serious enemies who are embarked and have embarked on murder, assassination and blowing up embassies, federal buildings, naval yards, both inside this country and outside this country.

:rolleyes:

so far all your arguments are either supported by these mid east oriented groups CLAIMING that they did it or an attempt to lay blame to them by the Defense.

back to the prosecution.
As we said earlier, your Honor, the Government is aware of no information that it hasn't provided already to the defense that shows that there is any kind of mitigating evidence that others directed and financed the bombing of the Oklahoma City Federal Building.
In fact, it is the Government's position that the ammonium nitrate and fuel oil bomb that was used at Oklahoma City on April 19 cost the defendants less than $1,000 to put together. So there is no information or evidence that would suggest that you needed a foreign government to finance and direct this bombing.
so no ties found. no indication of any Arahb financiers...

but we would not ask the Court implement some type of order where you would be reviewing information just provided from one side and asking -- no, ordering -- the Government to search for information from an agency or from agencies that although they are part of the Government, as Mr. Tigar pointed out, they were not part of the criminal investigation. Perhaps I didn't choose my words carefully enough, but they were not part of the criminal investigation.guess what... the Defense's sources are from people who were not part of the Official Criminal Investigation. so the facts behind their claims are sketchy at best.

and now the meat of the matter...
All of the quotes that Mr. Jones read to you from his papers that he submitted today are all from journalistic either articles or television reports at the time, on or about, of the bombing, approximately, when there was early speculation, because there was obviously a great appetite by the American public to find out who did this, who could have done this. And as we found out in our papers, no one wanted to believe that a U.S. citizen would perpetrate this type of heinous crime on our own citizens; so everyone was looking to foreign terrorists.
The Government doesn't deny that.
However, instead of speculating or hypothesizing, to quote Mr. Jones, we conducted a criminal investigation; and the investigation has not shown, although we have interviewed 21,000 witnesses, that any foreign government had any involvement in this activity, 'that any foreign individual was involved with the conspiracy.
So guess what that means... No Racial Profiling by the Government. they investigated, yes. what I would expect them to do, but other than being motivated by claims/witnesses/evidence it was not racially motivated.


so far, only the Defense and a few others "believed" it was foreigners. sure some claimed to have done it, and they were investigated because of those claims.

but no evidence that the Government profiled anyone by race alone.


The mainstream media would have picked that up. As for wistful thinking, the FBI and CIA went after Muslims first and foremost. Guess what the public did?and if you read the Document, they went after them (not first mind you) AFTER several of those idiots said "HEY USA! WE DID IT!" and what did the public in general do? nothing. they waited for the investigation to end.


Hah, so you admit that the racial profiling we see now wouldn't occur if it hadd been a White American who did it. Besides, what the NRA and games industry go through is nothing at all like what the average Muslim had to go through. you're grasping at straws here.

First of all, White isn't a race. many nationalitlies make up 'White' including most Asian nations including Russian/Soviet. much different than say, Muslim, Ahrab, Christian, Gay...

Second, not every Muslim is harrassed. infact I can personally introduce you to some communities here in Hawaii that haven't been harrassed.

Do NRA members get actively harrassed?everytime there is a violent gun spree... yes.
Do game company employees get denied service because of their affiliation? nah, they get fined for Millions.
Do either groups suffer from random acts of violence against them by self appointed vigilante groups?do any of those groups have idiots out there committing violence in their name? no, others speculate it's because of Violent Games and you can make a list of "anti-gun" threads here that would rival the list of "White american terrorist groups" on this thread.

If no, your examples fall flat on their face.your document actually shoots down your argument.


no it doesn't. if McVeigh left a suicide note stating he was doing this in the name of the Flying Spagetti Monster, then yes, for a reason was given. if he said he did what he did because he felt sad for his Irish brethen fighting against the oppressors, then yes, those groups would
Hah, there was no tape when McVeigh did what he did. But people were all too willing to blame Muslims even without real evidence that it was them. Having a note would only have served to create a target. But without that target, guess who got hit?so far the only ones blaming the muslims are the defense lawyers.

Who was the first to get the blame when nobody knew who it was? Who was it to get the heat? The historical answer is the Muslim groups, because that's what people wanted to believe. Evil outsider mentality at work again. read your document closely.

You've offered nothing to dispute my argument. That without having the actual culprit, the American people would use the evil outsider mentality, and blame the ethnic group as a whole.Of course I offer nothing.... You provided the evidence for my point yourself.

thanks. :D

David Koresh and the branch Davideans
Jim Jones
Aum Shinrikyo cult
Lords Resistence Army
Tamil Tigers
A myriad of marxist groups in europe
Carlos the Jackal

When did David Koresh start bombing stuff?

They were misguided, yes. But not terroristic. They sold stuff at gunshows and whatnot, made a decent living doing their weird cultist rituals.

*Snip*
Of course I offer nothing.... You provided the evidence for my point yourself.

thanks. :D

Owned... JuNii wins.

Sounds like you're doing some profiling of your own......

lol....kinda nasty circle we got ourselves into...damned if you do..damned if you dont....

cant please everyone i guess.

all i know is like bill maher said....if that reid dude(shoe bomber) sat next to me on a plane...he better be that jew(?)(jeff goldblum?) dude from jurassic park on a meth binge..or i will sit next to him with knife in hand...oh...we cant protect ourselves...lovely.

i am so about privacy,and a libertarian to a fault...but come on....who's blowing people up willy nilly...i know white christians are the preferred whippping boys/girls,but really...sit next to a shoe bomber dude or marie osmond,,who you gonna be afraid of?

now if i could get miss osmond to forget her retarded vows and join the mile high club...i digress...i dont want any arab dude sitting next to me unless he is screened...10 years ago i coulda cared less...now it is different....if the arabs are offended,well then stop the assholes at home,so we dont have too.

i got tore apart,stripped searched coming home from mexico in philly,oh well...i fit the profile...how they missed the coke is beyond me..lol...i did have something to hide,but then again,my plan was to do good coke...not send several hundred people to their deaths for no reason other then being a different religion!

so fuck em...inconveniant...so is dying in a plane crash...moreso when it is my child...deal with it.

and i have alot of arab/muslim friends..and i say the same thing..police your own,so we dont have too!

never thought i would say this...damn...i hate terrorists.

I don't really understand this whole PC uproar over profiling. Face the fact, the majority of recent attacks or plans against the United States and the Western World in general, especially those involving aircraft, have been the design of young, Muslim men. This means, quite logically, that one should look at the people fitting this description before, but not to the exclusion of, others.

Again, I'm not saying "Only look at young Muslim men and ignore everyone else", but the sad fact is, 11/9 (I prefer the Canadian way, but if you insist, 9/11), the 7/7 bombings, the Madrid bombings, and the two recent foiled attacks in Toronto (Canada) and Great Britain were ALL perpitrated by young Muslim men. Therefore, (sane) logic dictates that these are the people you look at first, not, as was previously stated, 70-year-old Granny-in-a-wheelchair carrying some Tylenol or 40-something investment banker and his water bottle and laptop. YES, it is possible that these people COULD be terrorists, but it is MUCH more likely that the 22-year-old Muslim guy in the corner, alone talking on a cell phone, is more of a threat to "National security".

As much as you want to dispute that "Oh, White guys are terrorists too", RIGHT NOW, that doesn't matter, because the OVERWHEALMING threat comes from those described above. Live with it.

Owned... JuNii wins.


I've noticed that he? usually does. You'd think people would have figured that out by now.

Ooh, don't forget the Earth Liberation Front (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Earth_Liberation_Front_actions).

Apparently, they've conducted 4 attacks this year, with a total of 1200 total attacks in the US.

They haven't killed anyone, but they've destroyed a lot of property. I'm not implying they're as bad as Al Qaeda and company, but they're still terrorists.

Ooh, don't forget the Earth Liberation Front (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Earth_Liberation_Front_actions).

Apparently, they've conducted 4 attacks this year, with a total of 1200 total attacks in the US.

They haven't killed anyone, but they've destroyed a lot of property. I'm not implying they're as bad as Al Qaeda and company, but they're still terrorists.
but are they terrorists? or just vandals...

tho, the gluing the locks sounds... interesting...

Ooh, don't forget the Earth Liberation Front (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Earth_Liberation_Front_actions).
...They haven't killed anyone...
Which right there makes them MUCH different from Al Qaida and other such organizations, whose sole aim is to harm or kill as many civilians as possible.

And to reiterate on my above post, I don't think we should be saying "All Muslims are evil" and persecuting them, but in times such as these, we must profile those who fit the description of known terrorists to protect the right to life of those traveling on our aircraft.

Which right there makes them MUCH different from Al Qaida and other such organizations, whose sole aim is to harm or kill as many civilians as possible.

And to reiterate on my above post, I don't think we should be saying "All Muslims are evil" and persecuting them, but in times such as these, we must profile those who fit the description of known terrorists to protect the right to life of those traveling on our aircraft.
yep, agreed.

however one point to add. the "Description" isn't only physical but how they act. and it shouldn't only be those that fit the description, but also include random samplings of those who also don't fit the description.

thats all i've heard from the pro profiling crowd (excluding wilgrove)

"all terrorists are arabs"
"white men are incapable of such violence"
:P


Really now? So those news organizations saying it was "person or persons of arab background" within hours of the blast were just my imagination? And the backlash on Muslims never happened?

The actions of the American public before the real culprit was revealed only prove what I had to say. That in which they are more likely to blame the "evil outsider" than look for the real answer, in which examining their own trash might have given.

bullshit...the first thing i thought was a neo nazi type in the ok bombing..seeing they targeted the fbi,on the anniversary of waco...and if they didnt kill kids,i may have understood there anger..as the feds are outa control.

but to rebut your claim that americans went mental after m/e's...thats bullshit.
hell,after 911,there was maybe 1 or 2 incidences of violence towards(brown people)and it was squashed by the majority saying it was a few fanatics(after the facts were in)...so i take major insult to your implication that americans are rabid anti arab..or gung ho beat up the rab types(i know you wish we were .so your hatred of us could be justified,but it is simply untrue)
the muslim community and the "redneck americans" got together quickly as a community,and i dont know how many rednecks are here,or how many muslims are...but their was NO VIOLENCE TOWARDS MUSLIMS..PERIOD...funny eh?

sucks to shoot your preconceived notions in the ass...but for a few isolated incidents..out of a sprawling country full of all races..we kinda stuck together...white,black,latino,muslim,hindu,buddist...you name it...the first thing i did was go see if my buddy (a sihk sp) was ok...he was crying.
he was afraid that since he was dark skinned and wore a turban,he would be attacked...the whole town came to let him know he was loved...yea us evil americans.

the next time you want to subtly impugn americans love for their neighbors...get a fucking clue...instead of your knee jerk hatred...your as bad as what you purport to despise...actually you are what you hate.

profiling...hell yea....maybe we should profile you..a fucking twit that has no clue about anything,other then what he is told to hate by his teachers...or his iman?


well i got pulled out of line and taken to the"back room"
i am as white as the driven snow..lol...random check you know...then i got cuffed and sent to jail cause i had a dmv warrent...like i said,i hate fucking terr's...ruined my whole trip over a ticket i didn't pay...but meanwhile..mohammed coulda walked by while they had me..lol..it is farsical this debate.
who the fuck is blowing up planes?
who hates the west?

play the semantic game all you like...there is some lone white guy that did this...there is a white guy serial killer...those are crimminals...they are NOT religous fanatics brainwashed into destroying the west..at all costs..including their life,and our childrens lives...so i say screw em...be inconvenienced for a few...or tell the iman to stfu and take back your religion!

Which right there makes them MUCH different from Al Qaida and other such organizations, whose sole aim is to harm or kill as many civilians as possible.

Apparently you missed this part of my post

I'm not implying they're as bad as Al Qaeda and company, but they're still terrorists.

Now, I know people are going to get emotional over this and accuse me of saying things that I do not say. But here goes....this is simple...

1) every american airliner hijacked in the past 20 years has been by an arab
2) the world trade center was bombed by arabs
3) the U.S.S. cole was attacked by arabs
4) we are fighting a war against terrorists in Iraq who are all arabs
5) 911 was done by arabs
6) arabs pose a greater security risk to America per capita than any other race
7) they should be watched with greater care at airports

simple.

yep, agreed.

however one point to add. the "Description" isn't only physical but how they act. and it shouldn't only be those that fit the description, but also include random samplings of those who also don't fit the description.
Yes, I implied "description" to mean all the apperance, manarisms, etc. of known terrorists, that just seemed like the best word.

but are they terrorists? or just vandals...

The FBI says they are

The ELF was classified as the top domestic terror threat by the FBI in March 2001

If it was my demographic that was such a risk I would not be offended at being hassled a bit more.

4) we are fighting a war against terrorists in Iraq who are all arabs

Actually, there are Persians and a number of other ethnicities fighting in Iraq. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if there were Chechnyans there, too.

Actually, there are Persians and a number of other ethnicities fighting in Iraq. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if there were Chechnyans there, too.

Persians like from Iran? Great. That fits into my Iraq exit strategy....
http://www.blackfive.net/photos/uncategorized/iraqexitstrategy.jpg

Persians like from Iran? Great. That fits into my Iraq exit strategy....
http://www.blackfive.net/photos/uncategorized/iraqexitstrategy.jpg

You don't honestly think that's a good idea, do you? Or would you not care about the thousands of American boys who would get killed doing that? Perhaps you like to sign up and help them out?

You don't honestly think that's a good idea, do you? Or would you not care about the thousands of American boys who would get killed doing that? Perhaps you like to sign up and help them out?

I think we should deal with Iran as situations arise. My vision of foreign policy is not measured in soldiers killed on my side. Had we had the kind of surrendermonkeys in the senate in WWII that we do now John kerry would have had us withdrawing from Europe and the Pacific before the spring of 1942...too many casualties.

I think we should deal with Iran as situations arise. My vision of foreign policy is not measured in soldiers killed on my side. Had we had the kind of surrendermonkeys in the senate in WWII that we do now John kerry would have had us withdrawing from Europe and the Pacific before the spring of 1942...too many casualties.

Are you trying to equate the "War on Terror" with WWII?

If you think invading Iran is as important as WWII, would you be rushing to sign up to help? If it's before July 11th 2007 (the last day of my IRR obligation) I'll certainly be along for the ride, you may as well come along too.

I think we should deal with Iran as situations arise. My vision of foreign policy is not measured in soldiers killed on my side. Had we had the kind of surrendermonkeys in the senate in WWII that we do now John kerry would have had us withdrawing from Europe and the Pacific before the spring of 1942...too many casualties.
actually, no. we would only be concentrating on Japan because Germany wasn't involved with Pearl Harbor. ;)

Are you trying to equate the "War on Terror" with WWII?

If you think invading Iran is as important as WWII, would you be rushing to sign up to help? If it's before July 11th 2007 (the last day of my IRR obligation) I'll certainly be along for the ride, you may as well come along too.

Yes. A multifront war that began with an evil and unwarrented attack on American soil. I am not eligible for combat due to an illness, if you must know....hemophelia.

actually, no. we would only be concentrating on Japan because Germany wasn't involved with Pearl Harbor. ;)

Indeed. Remember that Hitler was not the one who attacked us on Dember 7
Remember that Hussein was not the one who attacked us on 9-11.

Indeed. Remember that Hitler was not the one who attacked us on Dember 7
Remember that Hussein was not the one who attacked us on 9-11.

Apparently the American people don't agree with you that they're equally important. If they did we'd have kids crowding the recruiting stations, begging to serve. Sorry, you don't get to live the supposed glories of WWII.

Also, saying that Iraq in 2003 was anything like Nazi Germany in relations to US national security is ridiculous. If Iraq had conquered most of the Middle East and was bombing the crap out of a natural ally (we'll say Israel) that might make sense. Iraq was about as capable of harming the US in 2003 as Hungary was in 1941. Also, Iraq wasn't in any way allied to the Taliban regime, Hussein was hated by Al Qaeda for being "too secular".

I am not eligible for combat due to an illness, if you must know....hemophelia.

How unfortunate. Someone with your enthusiasm for such a war would have been perfect to have in a scout platoon with me.

Apparently the American people don't agree with you that they're equally important. If they did we'd have kids crowding the recruiting stations, begging to serve. Sorry, you don't get to live the supposed glories of WWII.

Also, saying that Iraq in 2003 was anything like Nazi Germany in relations to US national security is ridiculous. If Iraq had conquered most of the Middle East and was bombing the crap out of a natural ally (we'll say Israel) that might make sense. Iraq was about as capable of harming the US in 2003 as Hungary was in 1941. Also, Iraq wasn't in any way allied to the Taliban regime, Hussein was hated by Al Qaeda for being "too secular".



How unfortunate. Someone with your enthusiasm for such a war would have been perfect to have in a scout platoon with me.
I worry about the ultimate end to WWII.

is Barrygoldwater hinting that he will drop "Da Bomb"?

Apparently the American people don't agree with you that they're equally important. If they did we'd have kids crowding the recruiting stations, begging to serve. Sorry, you don't get to live the supposed glories of WWII.

Also, saying that Iraq in 2003 was anything like Nazi Germany in relations to US national security is ridiculous. If Iraq had conquered most of the Middle East and was bombing the crap out of a natural ally (we'll say Israel) that might make sense. Iraq was about as capable of harming the US in 2003 as Hungary was in 1941. Also, Iraq wasn't in any way allied to the Taliban regime, Hussein was hated by Al Qaeda for being "too secular".



How unfortunate. Someone with your enthusiasm for such a war would have been perfect to have in a scout platoon with me.

Well, the miltary has been meeting its recruitment goals for more than a year straight now. In fact, it has a surplus.

I never claimed that Iraq was as bad as Germany in world war II. Nor would I. That would by rediculous.

yet there is no question that Iraq had links to many terrorist groups including al-queda, hamas, and Hezbollah. Along with the 5 or 6 other good reasons for war.

I worry about the ultimate end to WWII.

is Barrygoldwater hinting that he will drop "Da Bomb"?

Ever see that LBJ commercial from the 1964 election? :D

No, I think that most Iraqis are not willing to fight us, so that would be a wrong decision.

Well, the miltary has been meeting its recruitment goals for more than a year straight now. In fact, it has a surplus.

Yes they are. However, it's nothing like what we had going on in WWII. If Americans thought it was as important the military would have to be turning people down left and right. Not only that, there is no sense of this being a "homefront". We don't act like a nation at war, and most people go on about their daily lives without even really caring until CNN reminds them the war is still going on.

yet there is no question that Iraq had links to many terrorist groups including al-queda, hamas, and Hezbollah. Along with the 5 or 6 other good reasons for war.

Yes they did have links to Hamas and possibly Hezbollah (although I'm a bit more skeptical on that one, I think that was more Iran's thing), but the only links they had to Al Qaeda were mutual dislike. However, simple links to a "terrorist" (which people can stretch to mean just about anything) group would give us a huge list of targets, some of them allies. Not to mention people like Luis Posada Carriles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Posada_Carriles) who live in the United States. He may be an anti-Castro terrorist, but he's still a terrorist.

As to your 5 or 6 other reasons, I was planning on asking you, but I won't. There is absolutely no way either of us will convince the other on whether or not the war was justified. My opinion as of now is that whether or not it was justified we're there, and we need to do what needs doing.

Indeed. Remember that Hitler was not the one who attacked us on Dember 7
Remember that Hussein was not the one who attacked us on 9-11.No, but it was Hitler that declared war on America while Saddam did not.

Shit! Two real white people with terrorist inclinations! Bugger me sideways with a halibut, you did research that well.

Now, consider terrorism in a modern context, or, for that matter, the context of another state. The IRA are, for the purposes of terror, essentially defunct, hence the sole active terrorist cell in Britain is Islamic. Given the preponderence of pakistani muslims currently imprisoned for terror, as opposed to "white" muslims, surely the principle is operative?

SNIP

Give it up, The Masses see through it. Profiling Arab males is ultimately a cheap political ploy, scare-mongering, 1984-style fear generation or plain old bigotry.

Irrelevant. 95% of the threat, the clear and present danger, is islamic males.
There's an islamic girl or two to worry about, but the 95% is pretty much on the money.

The 'the Masses' bit is such a give-away.

If you love marxism, dissapear to North Korea - so our lands are clean from whiney marxists, PC-filth, and similar ilk.

If you let anything trump the dictates of National Security, then you are a traitor, and treason must be made odious.

Irrelevant. 95% of the threat, the clear and present danger, is islamic males.
There's an islamic girl or two to worry about, but the 95% is pretty much on the money.

The 'the Masses' bit is such a give-away.

If you love marxism, dissapear to North Korea - so our lands are clean from whiney marxists, PC-filth, and similar ilk.

If you let anything trump the dictates of National Security, then you are a traitor, and treason must be made odious.

:rolleyes:

Serial killers aren't terrorists. The IRA didn't exist to destroy the West.

Oh so its only terrorism if they are terrorizing americans?

Give it up, The Masses see through it. Profiling Arab males is ultimately a cheap political ploy, scare-mongering, 1984-style fear generation or plain old bigotry.
Arab males have a much more consistent and lethal record than white men for terrorist activity, especially considering how few of them there are in the west.

In America police investigating murder cases profile white men aged 24-30 first, because they commit the most murders. It makes rational sense.

David Koresh and the branch Davideans
Jim Jones
Aum Shinrikyo cult
Lords Resistence Army
Tamil Tigers
A myriad of marxist groups in europe
Carlos the Jackal
Are you listing non-Islamic terrorist groups, because most of these groups arent composed of white people.

But you see, those didn't happen to America, so they don't count.
America is not, or shouldn't be, the world's policeman, so indeed they don't concern America.

Carlos hit an Israeli jet with an RPG because he ws sympathetic to the palestinians,
if an arab did the exct same thig you would calling for the banning of arabs from airport property
You prefer to deal in "would happen" or "might have happened", rather than what actually did happen, don't you?

I consider myself a rational person,
I realize that a 20-year-old male, especially one of middle-eastern descent
is more likely to plot a terrorist attack than say,
a 78 year old grandma with rheumatoid arthritis
but I do not think we should wave everyone through security who is not an Arab/muslim
Of course not, people of all colours and ages should be searched from time to time. But because a 20-year-old male, especially one of middle-eastern descent is more likely to plot a terrorist attack than say, a 78 year old, it is logical to search the former more often.

thats pretty much the definetion of profiling well only arabs are capable of attacks so we shouldn't check anyone else
Anyone who says this is an idiot. Most people think that no group should be excluded from security checks.

The chinese don't hurt people when they throw them in prison for 40+ years
for "counter-revolutionary activities"
Yes it does. Torture hurts.

thats all i've heard from the pro profiling crowd (excluding wilgrove)

"all terrorists are arabs"
"white men are incapable of such violence"

No, the usual thing is "most terrorists we're concerned about are arabs" (which is probably true)

But I've never heard anyone say "white men are incapable of such violence".

Would these same people have targetted white American males for their vengeance had Timothy McVeigh blown himself up, forever denying them direct revenge? Not likely.

But would they have targetted Muslims, or even Negroes, had the culprit been of either ethnic/religious group? Precendent argues that the answer is overwhelmingly yes.
Hardly anyone targets ethnic groups for what one of them does. I know of only one American man who killed a Muslim in Texas in reaction to the attacks, and he is on death row now.

Yes. A multifront war that began with an evil and unwarrented attack on American soil. I am not eligible for combat due to an illness, if you must know....hemophelia.
You fail at World War 2 history.

I think we should deal with Iran as situations arise. My vision of foreign policy is not measured in soldiers killed on my side. Had we had the kind of surrendermonkeys in the senate in WWII that we do now John kerry would have had us withdrawing from Europe and the Pacific before the spring of 1942...too many casualties.
I don't care how many Americans get killed, and I'd like you to explain how it is good idea, and how it is Christian, to invade Iran?

Why are the most pro-war Americans almost always Christian? I don't understand it.

If you love marxism, dissapear to North Korea - so our lands are clean from whiney marxists, PC-filth, and similar ilk.

Unlike you I'd rather have Marxists than the Taliban.

Carlos the Jackal

Come on! That guy was a genius! Hijacking the entire OPEC conferance with only two deaths!

Come on! That guy was a genius! Hijacking the entire OPEC conferance with only two deaths!


still was a terrorist and a latino one at that.

someone on here called him a "thug" which is more than an understatment
when's the last time the crips or the bloods hit a jetplane with an RPG???

Oh so its only terrorism if they are terrorizing americans?


The OP addressed us "rednecks" and profiling in the US seems to be the subject.
He's trying in vain to teach those of us who know better a lesson.

I have a proposition for you people who don't think we should profile. How about we stop the profiling, however the next time the USA is attack (and trust me it will happen) by a terrorist, and that terrorist is Arab. Do not post 500 threads about why wasn't he searched. Because I'll remind you that you didn't want him searched because profiling was wrong.

I'd like to remind you that I have never said we SHOULDN'T search Arabs, what I have said is that we should search EVERYBODY.

I'd like to remind you that I have never said we SHOULDN'T search Arabs, what I have said is that we should search EVERYBODY.

Its too time consuming to be productive really.

Neither do I and most other people that are in favor of profiing. We should also take in account behavior. Thus, a white male should be searched every now and then, since after young arab men, we are the group most prone to terrorism. It's just that young arab men should be searched much more often.

No, every person should be searched every single time. This prevents bullshit racial profiling and prevents both Whitey Mc Whiteman and Bomba Ossama from getting on the plane with a bomb.

I'd like to remind you that I have never said we SHOULDN'T search Arabs, what I have said is that we should search EVERYBODY.


I don't think anyone said that we shouldn't seach arabs, we should search everyone equal protection under the law, you know?

Shit! Two real white people with terrorist inclinations! Bugger me sideways with a halibut, you did research that well.

Now, consider terrorism in a modern context, or, for that matter, the context of another state. The IRA are, for the purposes of terror, essentially defunct, hence the sole active terrorist cell in Britain is Islamic. Given the preponderence of pakistani muslims currently imprisoned for terror, as opposed to "white" muslims, surely the principle is operative?
Really?

Then I guess I was imagining this (http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0814/northcrime.html) the other week.

The Dublin-Belfast railway line and the Newry by-pass have reopened after police recovered a device near the railway track during a security operation.

The device, which had already exploded, caused minor damage close to the railway line.

Trains were disrupted over the weekend during the search.

The Real IRA said it had left two devices on the line.

I don't think anyone said that we shouldn't seach arabs, we should search everyone equal protection under the law, you know?

Read the message I quoted in the post you were responding to.

Read the message I quoted in the post you were responding to.


i already had, i was complimenting you

Ahem, a few facts:

Statistics for 2001 show that Islamic terrorists were responsible for approximately 60% of terrorist activity.
http://www.emergency.com/2002/erri_ter2001.pdf

Profiling may well be illegal in the USA:
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

You would have to argue that probable cause exists because the person is Arab and/or Muslim.

The ACLU is currently fighting this in the courts on the grounds that it discriminates by race, and therefore does more harm than good to the community.
http://www.aclu.org/racialjustice/racialprofiling/15783prs20020116.html
http://www.aclu.org/racialjustice/racialprofiling/15867prs20020604.html

And between 1980 and 2001, domestic terrorist attacks outnumbered international terrorist attacks 345 to 136.

Reading the reports of terrorist activity in the USA and on US interests abroad, it is obvious that the vast majority of attacks were not perpetrated by middle eastern people or Muslims. However, the two most lethal attacks in this period were carried out by Islamic terrorists.

http://www.mipt.org/pdf/Terrorism2000-2001.pdf

Ahem, a few facts:

Statistics for 2001 show that Islamic terrorists were responsible for approximately 60% of terrorist activity.
http://www.emergency.com/2002/erri_ter2001.pdf

Profiling may well be illegal in the USA:


You would have to argue that probable cause exists because the person is Arab and/or Muslim.

The ACLU is currently fighting this in the courts on the grounds that it discriminates by race, and therefore does more harm than good to the community.
http://www.aclu.org/racialjustice/racialprofiling/15783prs20020116.html
http://www.aclu.org/racialjustice/racialprofiling/15867prs20020604.html

And between 1980 and 2001, domestic terrorist attacks outnumbered international terrorist attacks 345 to 136.

Reading the reports of terrorist activity in the USA and on US interests abroad, it is obvious that the vast majority of attacks were not perpetrated by middle eastern people or Muslims. However, the two most lethal attacks in this period were carried out by Islamic terrorists.

http://www.mipt.org/pdf/Terrorism2000-2001.pdf


yup no profiling going on there just searching 70 year old white people
:rolleyes:

yup no profiling going on there just searching 70 year old white people
:rolleyes:
Stupidity is no reason to institute racial profiling.

It's a great period of time to be a white terrorist in America.

It's a great period of time to be a white terrorist in America.
Or female, or a child. Because we all know terrorists have never developed ways to get around bullshit profiling.

"Oh no, they found Abdul with a bomb strapped to his chest again. Shit, send Razul this time!"
The only people not learning from mistakes are the people on the defense and that is why we are fucked. Unintelligent reaction ftl.

About the ELF (first of all, they should fire whoever came up with that acronym. I'm picturing Tolkien Elves running around lighting things on fire)

Bank of New York, Kings Park, Long Island Branch - Was spray painted with the slogans "Bank of NY Kills Puppies"

Seriously. They don't seem to be very good at this.

Wow! so you rednecks think all Muslims are middle eastern eh?...alright, so we employ this racial profiling which helps the terroists in two ways. First the terroists have succeded in destroying our freedoms by making Westerners so paranoid as to spit all over their own freedoms in the name of security. Then, the terroists simply employ white caucasion muslims to do the job, which there are more of than you believe there to be. Once that happens, say goodbye to everyones freedoms you slack jawed yokals. You think terroism is scary? Try an SS like gestapo unit that traverses america executing or 'disapereing' anyone who speaks out against the government or steps outside the line in anyway in the name of security. Does that sound safe? Many people believed it can not happen here, well thats what we thought in Germany, First they came for the communists, and I wasnt concerned because I wasnt a communist, then they came for the Jews and I wasn't concerend because I wasnt a Jew, then they came for the Catholics and I wasn't concerend Because I wasn't catholic, I was prodestent, then they came for me, but by then, there was no-one left to fight back, unknown German citezen at the end of world war two.:headbang:

Wow! so you rednecks think all Muslims are middle eastern eh?...alright, so we employ this racial profiling which helps the terroists in two ways. First the terroists have succeded in destroying our freedoms by making Westerners so paranoid as to spit all over their own freedoms in the name of security. Then, the terroists simply employ white caucasion muslims to do the job, which there are more of than you believe there to be. Once that happens, say goodbye to everyones freedoms you slack jawed yokals. You think terroism is scary? Try an SS like gestapo unit that traverses america executing or 'disapereing' anyone who speaks out against the government or steps outside the line in anyway in the name of security. Does that sound safe? Many people believed it can not happen here, well thats what we thought in Germany, First they came for the communists, and I wasnt concerned because I wasnt a communist, then they came for the Jews and I wasn't concerend because I wasnt a Jew, then they came for the Catholics and I wasn't concerend Because I wasn't catholic, I was prodestent, then they came for me, but by then, there was no-one left to fight back, unknown German citezen at the end of world war two.:headbang:

feel better?

feel better?

No.:mad:

Wow! so you rednecks think all Muslims are middle eastern eh?
Wow! So you think that anyone who disagrees with you is a redneck?

Really?

Then I guess I was imagining this (http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0814/northcrime.html) the other week.

My apologies. Hardly in England, however, was it?

Stupidity is no reason to institute racial profiling.

Perhaps not. Pragmatic sense may well supercede it as a reason however.

My apologies. Hardly in England, however, was it?
I'm sorry, England=the UK now?

If I were from Northern Ireland I would be a little insulted by that remark.

I'm sorry, England=the UK now?

If I were from Northern Ireland I would be a little insulted by that remark.


don't forget Scotland and Wales and guernsey(wherever that is)

Wow, you found two white guys, meanwhile I can find 50+ arab terrorist that's been attacking USA since the Iran Hostage Crisis back in the 70's. :rolleyes:
all age 17-40