NationStates Jolt Archive

is just buying cellphones (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/4116889.html). When this story first broke, I figured either the prosecutor had some info he hadn't released to the press, or that he was overeager and looking to make a splash. Apparently, it was the latter.

CARO, Mich. — The FBI said Monday it had no information to indicate that the three Texas men arrested with about 1,000 cell phones in their van had any direct connection to known terrorist groups.

Also, a prosecutor in a separate Ohio case said he can't prove a terrorism link to two men arrested after buying large numbers of cell phones and will drop terrorism charges against them.

I smell a little profiling going on here.

I smell a little profiling going on here.
I smell a prelude to a lot more than a 'little profiling'.

It sounded far-fetched from the start.

Every urban dweller knows that the electronic goods resale business really does exist.

Given the recent history of muslim young men and islamic extremism, I'd be upset if they didn't profile.

In this particular case, it seemed that these guys were just a bunch of regular guys trying to make some money.

Given the recent history of muslim young men and islamic extremism, I'd be upset if they didn't profile.

In this particular case, it seemed that these guys were just a bunch of regular guys trying to make some money.
Every time I see a statement like this, I think "there's a white kid who has never had to worry about being prejudged solely on his skin color." Well god bless you kid, and I hope you never find yourself on the shit end of a profiling situation. But empathy is a sign of emotional maturity, and you might want to remember that.

Every time I see a statement like this, I think "there's a white kid who has never had to worry about being prejudged solely on his skin color." Well god bless you kid, and I hope you never find yourself on the shit end of a profiling situation. But empathy is a sign of emotional maturity, and you might want to remember that.
No, empathy is the sign of being a women.
Reasonable fear that the same situation could happen to you or people you care about, and taking into consideration the impact of an action on the comfort and well-being of society as a whole, which ultimately affects us all, from a purely unemotional angle, that's mature.
Having said that, racial profiling is certainly something to avoid.

No, empathy is the sign of being a women.
:rolleyes:

No, empathy is the sign of being a women.
:rolleyes:

People tell me I have a way with words.

Not today.

Every time I see a statement like this, I think "there's a white kid who has never had to worry about being prejudged solely on his skin color." Well god bless you kid, and I hope you never find yourself on the shit end of a profiling situation. But empathy is a sign of emotional maturity, and you might want to remember that.
Every time I see a statement like this, I think "there's a bleeding heart liberal who cares more about not hurting people's feelings than his own safety."

If I was a Muslim, I wouldn't like getting profiled, but I'd have the maturity to realize that it's necessary.

Given the recent history of muslim young men and islamic extremism, I'd be upset if they didn't profile.

In this particular case, it seemed that these guys were just a bunch of regular guys trying to make some money.You'd be upset if people's rights aren't violated when they buy cell phones? If an American kid of Arab descent mugs someone, should we automatically assume he might be guilty of collecting funds for a terrorist group until evidence proves otherwise?
If it were your "profile" that was under suspicion, you might think otherwise. Some people don't want to wait for that to happen.

If I was a Muslim, I wouldn't like getting profiled, but I'd have the maturity to realize that it's necessary.
Based on your posts so far, I doubt it.

These guys were sketchy. There was intel suggesting that they planned to destroy a large bridge. They exhibited behavior that made them a risk. There was a tip from a local. It would have been irresponsible not to detain them to ask questions.

Every time I see a statement like this, I think "there's a bleeding heart liberal who cares more about not hurting people's feelings than his own safety."

If I was a Muslim, I wouldn't like getting profiled, but I'd have the maturity to realize that it's necessary.And how, exactly, was our safety threatened here? Hmmm? How much good did this profiling do? And how many resources were wasted here that could have been used doing actual police work?

Every time I see a statement like this, I think "there's a bleeding heart liberal who cares more about not hurting people's feelings than his own safety."Apart from the fact that I'm not a liberal, I'm opposing profiling like that for my own safety. If it can happen to socialists and muslims, all it takes is one event to make it happen to my "profile".

If I was a Muslim, I wouldn't like getting profiled, but I'd have the maturity to realize that it's necessary.That's easy to say.

And how, exactly, was our safety threatened here? Hmmm? How much good did this profiling do? And how many resources were wasted here that could have been used doing actual police work?

Our safety was probably not threatened. But there was suspicious behavior, a reasonable amount of intel, and the men fit a particular demographic that is very dangerous. This was real police work. real police work sometimes involves leads that do not pan out. If that police had not investigated this they would have been very irresponsible. Their job is to use every resource that they have to help protect the public.

Apart from the fact that I'm not a liberal, I'm opposing profiling like that for my own safety. If it can happen to socialists and muslims, all it takes is one event to make it happen to my "profile".

That's easy to say.

Its all about risk assesment.

These guys were sketchy. I agree. Filling a van full of cell phones is hardly normal.
There was intel suggesting that they planned to destroy a large bridge.I hope the intel didn't just consist of the potential of using the cellphones for bombs and the fact that there was a large bridge nearby.
They exhibited behavior that made them a risk. Yeah, thinking for yourself has that effect.
There was a tip from a local. The sales clerk?
It would have been irresponsible not to detain them to ask questions.I'll agree. But the premature claim that they were involved in a potential terror plot was even more irresponsible.

Every time I see a statement like this, I think "there's a white kid who has never had to worry about being prejudged solely on his skin color." Well god bless you kid, and I hope you never find yourself on the shit end of a profiling situation. But empathy is a sign of emotional maturity, and you might want to remember that.

Oh, I don't know. If there is a serial killer in his town a decade or so from now he might get a crack of the wrong end of the profiling whip.

You'd be upset if people's rights aren't violated when they buy cell phones? If an American kid of Arab descent mugs someone, should we automatically assume he might be guilty of collecting funds for a terrorist group until evidence proves otherwise?
If it were your "profile" that was under suspicion, you might think otherwise. Some people don't want to wait for that to happen.
If an Arab-American kid mugged someone, that would hardly be terrorism, no?

Cellphones can be used to detonate bombs. I'm suggesting using profiling at airports, and at select cases, like when mid eastern looking men buy a shitload of cellphones or other materials that could be used for explosives.

I'm not suggesting that the police should strip-search someone on the street just because he/she happens to be Muslim.

I agree. Filling a van full of cell phones is hardly normal.
I hope the intel didn't just consist of the potential of using the cellphones for bombs and the fact that there was a large bridge nearby.
Yeah, thinking for yourself has that effect.
The sales clerk?
I'll agree. But the premature claim that they were involved in a potential terror plot was even more irresponsible.

So investigating a suspicious situation is more irresponsible than ignoring it and doing nothing? What kind of police force do you want?

Its all about risk assesment.No, its all about preventing the age old "divide and conquer."

Clear message: "America thinks that all sand niggers, even american sand niggers, are terrorists. Thats right, we dont like your kind"


These kids need some good lawyers to stick it to the government hard over this. This should pay for their retirements.

So investigating a suspicious situation is more irresponsible than ignoring it and doing nothing? What kind of police force do you want?Read my post again. Maybe you'll understand what I said instead of what you wanted me to say this time.

No, its all about preventing the age old "divide and conquer."

I hardly see the harm of an investigation into 3 young arab males buying an enormous amount of potential detonation devices. Whether it was anything or not, are you saying that cops should ignore their curiosity and simply not investigate? That sounds dangerous.

Clear message: "America thinks that all sand niggers, even american sand niggers, are terrorists. Thats right, we dont like your kind"


These kids need some good lawyers to stick it to the government hard over this. This should pay for their retirements.

Idiotic. You really did not want this investigated. What should have been done differently?

I hardly see the harm of an investigation into 3 young arab males buying an enormous amount of potential detonation devices. Whether it was anything or not, are you saying that cops should ignore their curiosity and simply not investigate? That sounds dangerous.
No problem with investigating. Big problem with charging them with terrorism and going public with the charges when there's nothing to back it up. It's not even a subtle difference.

If an Arab-American kid mugged someone, that would hardly be terrorism, no?

Cellphones can be used to detonate bombs. I'm suggesting using profiling at airports, and at select cases, like when mid eastern looking men buy a shitload of cellphones or other materials that could be used for explosives. Money gained from mugging can be used to finance terror. Cell phones can be used for calling people, and as someone else claimed, provide ingridients for meth. Neither have anything to do with terrorism.

I'm not suggesting that the police should strip-search someone on the street just because he/she happens to be Muslim.That's cool, because all I'm suggesting is that investigators don't claim links to terrorism as soon as a muslim does anything that could potentially over many corners have something to do with terrorism.

No problem with investigating. Big problem with charging them with terrorism and going public with the charges when there's nothing to back it up. It's not even a subtle difference.

They had 1000 untraceable cell phones and were young arab males. There was a lot to back up the charges. They could either be found guilty or innocent. No harm done to society.

Money gained from mugging can be used to finance terror. Cell phones can be used for calling people, and as someone else claimed, provide ingridients for meth. .

Cell phones can be used as detonation devices. Especially a lot of cell phones. See the news last week about the mid-atlantic hijacking? Hey, come to think of it, 95% of them were arabic Muslims too. hmmm.

I hardly see the harm of an investigation into 3 young arab males buying an enormous amount of potential detonation devices. Whether it was anything or not, are you saying that cops should ignore their curiosity and simply not investigate? That sounds dangerous.Lovely strawman you got there. :rolleyes:

No problem with investigating. Big problem with charging them with terrorism and going public with the charges when there's nothing to back it up. It's not even a subtle difference.
There's a good point. It should have been investigated, it was, it turned out to be nothing, I did not have to hear about it, the suspects reputation shouldn't have been compromised.

That's cool, because all I'm suggesting is that investigators don't claim links to terrorism as soon as a muslim does anything that could potentially over many corners have something to do with terrorism.
That's exactly what I've been trying to get at. Why are we arguing?

They had 1000 untraceable cell phones and were young arab males. There was a lot to back up the charges. They could either be found guilty or innocent. No harm done to society.
Your racism is showing--might want to tuck that back in public.

Obviously, there wasn't a lot to back up the charges, because it only took a couple of days for the prosecutors to back off the terrorism charges.

There's a good point. It should have been investigated, it was, it turned out to be nothing, I did not have to hear about it, the suspects reputation shouldn't have been compromised.

In police work and matters of national security personal reputations and other feel-good-isms come second.

Cell phones can be used as detonation devices. Especially a lot of cell phones. See the news last week about the mid-atlantic hijacking? Hey, come to think of it, 95% of them were arabic Muslims too. hmmm.Why the fuck would anyone buy over a thousand cell phones if they plan to make bombs out of them? (And since when do cell phones have religions? :confused:)

Your racism is showing--might want to tuck that back in public.

Obviously, there wasn't a lot to back up the charges, because it only took a couple of days for the prosecutors to back off the terrorism charges.
How is it racism? He was merely pointing out that most terrorists are young arab males.

Your racism is showing--might want to tuck that back in public.

Obviously, there wasn't a lot to back up the charges, because it only took a couple of days for the prosecutors to back off the terrorism charges.

Saying that young arab males are more likely to committ terror than other groups is not racist...it is fact. Check out the last news in Iraq for an update.

By the way, accoring to the last gallup poll on the subject only 31% of Americans want the patriot act undergo major changes or be removed form law.

Why the fuck would anyone buy over a thousand cell phones if they plan to make bombs out of them? (And since when do cell phones have religions? :confused:)
You could sell those cellphones to terrorists, who could use them to detonate a thousand bombs.

You don't make bombs with cellphones, you use cellphones to detonate them.

In police work and matters of national security personal reputations and other feel-good-isms come second.Would you say the same thing if you were called a rapist for the rest of your life because some woman claimed so?

Why the fuck would anyone buy over a thousand cell phones if they plan to make bombs out of them? (And since when do cell phones have religions? :confused:)

umm, a terrorist? and 95% of the hijackers ( wannabees that is) were Muslims in the recent British attack. Not the cell phones you dolt.

In police work and matters of national security personal reputations and other feel-good-isms come second.
Innocent until proven guilty is a "feel-good-ism"? I agree with part of what you said earlier but there was no reason for this to be brought to national attention and there was no reason to ruin their reputations.

What should have been done differently?
How about an investigation into possible tax evasion, without press release?

Without prejudging any possible trial with massive publicity?

If you cite the wrong law and go running to the media with a sensationalist story, basically demanding a congratulatory phone call from the president and a pay rise complete with milk and cookies, then the suspects walk free, guilty or not, because where the hell are you going to get an impartial jury?

The authorities were unprofessional as hell. They did stuff in completely the wrong order.

This stuff was always for the IRS or some other financial experts with actual experience in black market trading to sort out, and refer to someone with a clue if there was more to it, not for someone to play the hero.

Would you say the same thing if you were called a rapist for the rest of your life because some woman claimed so?

If I was accused of rape and found innocent because I was I would have no room to complain, except to the evil wench who accused me. The system would not be at fault. What...where they not supposed to charge me? hehe.

You could sell those cellphones to terrorists, who could use them to detonate a thousand bombs.

You don't make bombs with cellphones, you use cellphones to detonate them.They could be sold to the Mossad for the same purpose. I proclaim these guys heroes.

Would you say the same thing if you were called a rapist for the rest of your life because some woman claimed so?
This has nothing to do with terrorism. Those men were cleared of charges, so presumably, no one will call them terrorists for the rest of their lives.

Innocent until proven guilty is a "feel-good-ism"? I agree with part of what you said earlier but there was no reason for this to be brought to national attention and there was no reason to ruin their reputations.

No, innocent until proven guilty is the basis of our legal system. That has nothing to do with charging sombody with somthing. Or their feelings. Feelings come second to public safety. It hurt son of sam's reputation when we put him in Jail. It really is besides the point.

Saying that young arab males are more likely to committ terror than other groups is not racist...it is fact. Check out the last news in Iraq for an update.

Jesus Christ that's a stupid statement. I'd be really surprised if the majority of "terrorist suspects" in Iraq were anything other than Arab. When you consider the size of the Arab and Arab-American population in the US, and then factor in the tiny number of people who have been charged--charged, not convicted--of conspiracy to commit terrorist acts or something similar, then you come to one quick realization. Profiling Arab males makes as much sense as randomly grabbing people off the street and investigating them.

They could be sold to the Mossad for the same purpose. I proclaim these guys heroes.
Yeah, Mossad, the most advanced intelligence agency in the world is going to use a bunch of cheap cellphones from a bunch of arab-american men. :headbang:

This has nothing to do with terrorism. Those men were cleared of charges, so presumably, no one will call them terrorists for the rest of their lives.
How would you look at these men if they walked in behind you at a 7-11? Would you hold your money closer to you? Would you avoid meeting their eye? Even now, after the charges are dropped. The questions are rhetorical, you don't really have to answer.

If I was accused of rape and found innocent because I was I would have no room to complain, except to the evil wench who accused me. The system would not be at fault. What...where they not supposed to charge me? hehe.Now would you mind the social stigma of being branded a rapist? Would you not mind never being left alone with children again or having difficulties finding a partner because you were once accused? Security taking first hand, you know...

No, innocent until proven guilty is the basis of our legal system. That has nothing to do with charging sombody with somthing. Or their feelings. Feelings come second to public safety. It hurt son of sam's reputation when we put him in Jail. It really is besides the point.
No, its not beside the point at all. Innocent until proven guilty is the basis of our legal system but the protections are also there to protect them in the general public.

How about an investigation into possible tax evasion, without press release?

Without prejudging any possible trial with massive publicity?

If you cite the wrong law and go running to the media with a sensationalist story, basically demanding a congratulatory phone call from the president and a pay rise complete with milk and cookies, then the suspects walk free, guilty or not, because where the hell are you going to get an impartial jury?

The authorities were unprofessional as hell. They did stuff in completely the wrong order.

This stuff was always for the IRS or some other financial experts with actual experience in black market trading to sort out, and refer to someone with a clue if there was more to it, not for someone to play the hero.

Potential tax evasion does not kill people.
Publicity happens in many trials. This is not special.
What law was cited incorrectly?
They did not run to the media, the media ran to them.
I find that you are quick to blame the police in a knee jerk motion. That is a major problem.

They could be sold to the Mossad for the same purpose. I proclaim these guys heroes.

For being so shady the government thought they were terrorists instead of the neo-gypsy's who need to get real jobs that they are?

Yeah, Mossad, the most advanced intelligence agency in the world is going to use a bunch of cheap cellphones from a bunch of arab-american men. :headbang:Just as realistic as Al Qaeda not buying the cell phones they need themselves, in small enough quantities not to be noticed :rolleyes:
You and BG managed to spin some of the biggest bullshit to support your case.

Potential tax evasion does not kill people.
Publicity happens in many trials. This is not special.
What law was cited incorrectly?
They did not run to the media, the media ran to them.
I find that you are quick to blame the police in a knee jerk motion. That is a major problem.
I place a major part of the blame on the press.

Jesus Christ that's a stupid statement. I'd be really surprised if the majority of "terrorist suspects" in Iraq were anything other than Arab. When you consider the size of the Arab and Arab-American population in the US, and then factor in the tiny number of people who have been charged--charged, not convicted--of conspiracy to commit terrorist acts or something similar, then you come to one quick realization. Profiling Arab males makes as much sense as randomly grabbing people off the street and investigating them.
So you're telling me that Arab young men aren't over-represented in these charges compared to the general population? You're telling me that 14% are black, 74% white, 1% Arab, and 16% Latino?

That's not even my problem with you accusing him of racism, though. You were using political correctness to censor him.

Just as realistic as Al Qaeda not buying the cell phones they need themselves, in small enough quantities not to be noticed :rolleyes:
You and BG managed to spin some of the biggest bullshit to support your case.
But they did buy them in small quantities. Three at a time, walmart policy, remember?

Jesus Christ that's a stupid statement. I'd be really surprised if the majority of "terrorist suspects" in Iraq were anything other than Arab. When you consider the size of the Arab and Arab-American population in the US, and then factor in the tiny number of people who have been charged--charged, not convicted--of conspiracy to commit terrorist acts or something similar, then you come to one quick realization. Profiling Arab males makes as much sense as randomly grabbing people off the street and investigating them.

September 11, 2001. The U.S.S. Cole. The transatlantic terror plot. The brooklyn bridge plot. The shoe bomber. The world trade center bombing. The Beirut embassy. The iran hostage crisis. The Iraq war. The war on the Taliban. The list goes on and on. Young arab males are a huge risk factor.

For being so shady the government thought they were terrorists instead of the neo-gypsy's who need to get real jobs that they are?What do you do for a living?

How would you look at these men if they walked in behind you at a 7-11? Would you hold your money closer to you? Would you avoid meeting their eye? Even now, after the charges are dropped. The questions are rhetorical, you don't really have to answer.


Well, yeah, apparently they were selling these phones for profit. They are shady guys without real jobs. I would not want to stand next to them on line. I think I have to leave for now. God Bless.

What do you do for a living?

Student teaching. Studying for my masters. I am leaving now though for a quick swim.:p

Well, yeah, apparently they were selling these phones for profit. They are shady guys without real jobs. I would not want to stand next to them on line. I think I have to leave for now. God Bless.
Ah. Being poor equals shady. Life's a bitch.

September 11, 2001. The U.S.S. Cole. The transatlantic terror plot. The brooklyn bridge plot. The shoe bomber. The world trade center bombing. The Beirut embassy. The iran hostage crisis. The Iraq war. The war on the Taliban. The list goes on and on. Young arab males are a huge risk factor.
Okay, I'm going to type his slowly so you might have an easier time understanding it.

This case deals with Arab males in the US. To include things like the Cole, the Beirut embassy, the Iran hostage crisis, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, etc. in a discussion about profiing in the US justice system, and the quickness with which US prosecutors used the "t" word, is stupid. Or are African-Americans to be lumped in with Rwandans in a discussion of crime in Kigali?

But they did buy them in small quantities. Three at a time, walmart policy, remember?And, if I remember correctly, they got a tip from the people working there because they had suspicions. Why would they have stored all those phones in one place? Why not distribute them and avoid arousing suspicion? There is nothing other than prejudice based on their ethnicity that points exclusively towards terrorism. It may not have been wrong to consider that they potentially might (maybe) have terrorist motivations. To go public with that was idiotic.

Potential tax evasion does not kill people.
Publicity happens in many trials. This is not special.
What law was cited incorrectly?
They did not run to the media, the media ran to them.
I find that you are quick to blame the police in a knee jerk motion. That is a major problem.
1) WTF? Tax evasion is a crime, and the most likely possibility here, if a crime was indeed being committed. I could have told them that had I seen the van doors being opened myself.
2) In law enforcement, sensationalist publicity is to be avoided wherever possible. Except in the case of missing persons or seeking a fugitive, it only hinders the legal process.
3) They got arrested on suspicion of terrorism, not tax evasion. That's a cock-up. The situation got misread, and unnecessary political noise was created.
4) Had the arrest been made on the suspicion of black market trading without payment of taxes, the media would not have given a damn.
5) A major problem is someone shooting their mouth off to the media and creating the possibility that the whole thing turns into a circus with no prospect of a fair trial.

Put simply, it's a politically sensitive subject, and it's about time the authorities recognised the fact and acted more carefully. There is no knee-jerk reaction from me, I am simply pointing out obvious deficiencies which need to be corrected.

And, if I remember correctly, they got a tip from the people working there because they had suspicions. Why would they have stored all those phones in one place? Why not distribute them and avoid arousing suspicion? There is nothing other than prejudice based on their ethnicity that points exclusively towards terrorism. It may not have been wrong to consider that they potentially might (maybe) have terrorist motivations. To go public with that was idiotic.
Then we basically agree. Storing all those phones in one place wasn't a bright thing to do, though.

September 11, 2001. The U.S.S. Cole. The transatlantic terror plot. The brooklyn bridge plot. The shoe bomber. The world trade center bombing. The Beirut embassy. The iran hostage crisis. The Iraq war. The war on the Taliban. The list goes on and on. Young arab males are a huge risk factor.Funny, since when are Iranians, English, and/or Jamaican considered Arab?

Funny, since when are Iranians, English, and/or Jamaican considered Arab?
Ever since Arab became a synonym for terrorist in America.

Student teaching. Studying for my masters. I am leaving now though for a quick swim.:p
According to my Grandfather, that wouldn't be a real job either. I should know, apart from the Master being a Bachelor, that would fit me. Stop criticizing people for being different.

Then we basically agree. Storing all those phones in one place wasn't a bright thing to do, though.I'm surprised it's taken you this long to realize that. I said this ages ago. My beef is that while that many cell phones is suspicious and deserves scrutiny, there isn't and wasn't anything to justify going public with a terrorism charge.

How about an investigation into possible tax evasion, without press release?

Without prejudging any possible trial with massive publicity?

If you cite the wrong law and go running to the media with a sensationalist story, basically demanding a congratulatory phone call from the president and a pay rise complete with milk and cookies, then the suspects walk free, guilty or not, because where the hell are you going to get an impartial jury?

The authorities were unprofessional as hell. They did stuff in completely the wrong order.

This stuff was always for the IRS or some other financial experts with actual experience in black market trading to sort out, and refer to someone with a clue if there was more to it, not for someone to play the hero.
that would be a perfect world. however, with the press screaming "the public's right to know" the police have to let them know what's going on.

I would preferre if the media keeps out untill trial/verdict... but then again, that's a perfect world.

1) WTF? Tax evasion is a crime, and the most likely possibility here, if a crime was indeed being committed. I could have told them that had I seen the van doors being opened myself.
2) In law enforcement, sensationalist publicity is to be avoided wherever possible. Except in the case of missing persons or seeking a fugitive, it only hinders the legal process.
3) They got arrested on suspicion of terrorism, not tax evasion. That's a cock-up. The situation got misread, and unnecessary political noise was created.
4) Had the arrest been made on the suspicion of black market trading without payment of taxes, the media would not have given a damn.
5) A major problem is someone shooting their mouth off to the media and creating the possibility that the whole thing turns into a circus with no prospect of a fair trial.

Put simply, it's a politically sensitive subject, and it's about time the authorities recognised the fact and acted more carefully. There is no knee-jerk reaction from me, I am simply pointing out obvious deficiencies which need to be corrected.TG... to be fair, it's not only those in law enforcement that shoot their mouths off... but it's also the media that puts pressure on law enforcement.

think about it... if those men were detained to be properly investigated, and no reason given to the media, can you imagine what would be printed?
"Police hold mid east men without charges"
"innocent independant businessmen arrested for no reason"

and because everyone trusts the media... the police will still be cast in the wrong light.

They needed to investigate, yes. Having over a thousand cellphones you bought piecemeal, especially since they are untraceable and there have been past plots using these phones, was suspicious.

However, the local police should have kept their damned mouths shut and not called the press crowing that they caught terrorists until AFTER they and the prosecutor found out what the hell was going on.

Aside from accusing these men publicly of something they were ultimately not charged with, if it really WERE part of a plot, this kind of assinine "We caught the terrorists!" BS would have let other involved parties slip away.

All in all, an idiotic way to handle things.

And yeah, tax evasion is probably the charge they'll get now.

Every time I see a statement like this, I think "there's a bleeding heart liberal who cares more about not hurting people's feelings than his own safety."
Not hurting others' feelings does bring safety!

Terrorism is just an extension of being deeply riled about something or another, if you treat Muslims like second-class citizens, expect to get vengeance at some point or other.
If I was a Muslim, I wouldn't like getting profiled, but I'd have the maturity to realize that it's necessary.
Oh aye?

And why would it be necessary for you, going about your daily, honest business, to be profiled because of your religion and nothing else?

Would that not feel like injustice of the highest order?

Student teaching. Studying for my masters. I am leaving now though for a quick swim.:p
In what?

Applied idiocy?

In what?

Applied idiocy?
Watch it.

Publicity happens in many trials.
That's the point: this was not a trial, it was an arrest.

They did not run to the media, the media ran to them.
And the media found out how? And the police gave a statement about having foiled a terrorist plot why?

I may not always agree with Tactical Grace, but he's right to criticize the police for their handling of this.

Ever since Arab became a synonym for terrorist in America.

how true

Would you say the same thing if you were called a rapist for the rest of your life because some woman claimed so?
If you actually did it, and you are one, then your objection to being "labeled" a rapist, although predictable, is moot.

If you actually did it, and you are one, then your objection to being "labeled" a rapist, although predictable, is moot.
Do you not get the question?

If you actually did it, and you are one, then your objection to being "labeled" a rapist, although predictable, is moot.
actually, it doesn't matter if you did it or not. OJ was found Innocent of murder yet many still say he's guilty.

the stimga will hang on that person for a LOOOOOOOONG time.

There was intel suggesting that they planned to destroy a large bridge.

You are aware that this "intel" was the fact that they had pictures and video of the bridge, right? Which happens to be a landmark surrounded by tourist attractions. I myself have a number of pictures of this same bridge, as I went on a vacation to that part of the state a couple of weeks ago.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I just read an article (http://www.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060815/NEWS01/608150332/1312) about what sort of damage destroying this bridge would have done. We've been concerned about attacks on this bridge since 9/11. Right after 9/11 the Guard was deployed to secure the bridge for a while. This bridge is extremely important and symbolic to people in this state, and what I think happened is that the police saw the pictures of the bridge and over reacted. They never should have made it national news until they had a clearer picture of what was going on. Everyone knowing about it does nothing to make the investigation easier, so it's not as though it was for "national security" concerns.

Every time I see a statement like this, I think "there's a white kid who has never had to worry about being prejudged solely on his skin color." Well god bless you kid, and I hope you never find yourself on the shit end of a profiling situation. But empathy is a sign of emotional maturity, and you might want to remember that.
Thats funny, every time I see a statement like this, I think back to my trip to Europe and all the times in France and Greece people tried to shortchange or otherwise rip me off because I was a fifteen year old American (or at least, becaused they THOUGHT I was an American), or the guy who ASSUMED I was stealing when I bent down to look at a display in his shop.
Empathy may be a sign of maturity, but maturity isnt a sign of intelligence. Racial profiling isnt the only kind.

The fact that we are in a war with Islamic fascists, were attacked by arabs on 911, and how sketchy these guys were begged for a prosecution. Whether they are guilty or not will come out in the wash.

TG... to be fair, it's not only those in law enforcement that shoot their mouths off... but it's also the media that puts pressure on law enforcement.

think about it... if those men were detained to be properly investigated, and no reason given to the media, can you imagine what would be printed?
"Police hold mid east men without charges"
"innocent independant businessmen arrested for no reason"

and because everyone trusts the media... the police will still be cast in the wrong light.
Journalist: "Sir, sir, I just managed to get the perfect scoop! It's big! This is front-page stuff!"

(Editor reads)

Police hold Mid-East men on tax evasion charges.

Dramatic scenes as IRS investigators arrived at -

Editor: You're fired.


When it's a sensitive political issue, care with what you say begins with the arrest itself.

Tax evasion is a different story than attempted terrorism.

Tax evasion is a different story than attempted terrorism.Yeah, no one gives you a shifty look if the police accuse you of tax evasion if you get cleared later on.

Yeah, no one gives you a shifty look if the police accuse you of tax evasion if you get cleared later on.
God I really hope that never comes up. :D