NationStates Jolt Archive

I believe Hezbollah came out on top of this conflict for several reasons.

1. There is a Hezbollah to claim victory. The IDF failed to completely decimate the organization.

2. The two Israeli soldiers Hezbollah captured haven't been returned yet.

3. There is no provision in the UN resolution addressing reparations for the damage done to Israel.

4. By all accounts, Hezbollah has grown even more popular in Lebanon.

5. Hassan Nasrallah is still alive.

The problem is, the point of contention for Hezbollah vs. Israel (the most immediate one for them) is Shebaa Farms.

Which is still squarely in IDF hands, and will remain so, as under UN mandate it is definitely not part of Lebanon.

The IDF didn't win either.

I call it a draw, with the civilians getting it up the ass on both sides.

The problem is, the point of contention for Hezbollah vs. Israel (the most immediate one for them) is Shebaa Farms.

Which is still squarely in IDF hands, and will remain so, as under UN mandate it is definitely not part of Lebanon.

The IDF didn't win either.

I call it a draw, with the civilians getting it up the ass on both sides.
I consider anything less than a complete defeat of Hezbollah a loss for Israel.

I consider anything less than a complete defeat of Hezbollah a loss for Israel.

On a purely military level, neither one seems to have achieved any real results on the ground that will be permanent.

On a political level, Hez comes out ahead, due to their use of human shields and the zeal of the IDF in killing Hez where they find them.

On the UN level, Hez gets pretty much the same inept, useless UN force in their area, but doesn't get Shebaa Farms recognized even as potentially being part of Lebanon.

Prisoners from each side are not repatriated.

Hezbollah stood up to the previously invincible IDF.
Hezbollah quite possibly won't be disarmed.
Hezbollah still has the hostages.
Hezbollah is more popular now than it was before the war.

I'd say Nasrallah is sitting pretty right now.

Hezbollah stood up to the previously invincible IDF.
Hezbollah quite possibly won't be disarmed.
Hezbollah still has the hostages.
Hezbollah is more popular now than it was before the war.

I'd say Nasrallah is sitting pretty right now.

I think Hezbollah, a political / terrorist organization that advocated violence, will not be disarmed as a result of this and is thought of in many places at a legitimate political power in control of Lebanon. Sny popular gained for the group came at the expense of Islam as a religion and that the organization will be viewed as a more serious threat. But I do feel Hezbollah effectively won. I also wish this weren't the case, as I don't approve of Hezbollah. *shrug*

4. By all accounts, Hezbollah has grown even more popular in Lebanon.
Hmm, I wonder how that could have happened..
:rolleyes:

You're assuming that the conflict is over. To me, Hezbollah's victory declarations sound a little like Dubya's infamous "Mission Accomplished" banner....Don't count your chickens before they hatch.

Hmm, I wonder how that could have happened..
:rolleyes:
Israel wasn't ruthless enough. They should have launched a full scale ground invasion on Day 1.

You're assuming that the conflict is over. To me, Hezbollah's victory declarations sound a little like Dubya's infamous "Mission Accomplished" banner....Don't count your chickens before they hatch.
No, I realize that it's not over just yet, but thus far, hezbollah is coming out on top.

Israel wasn't ruthless enough. They should have launched a full scale ground invasion on Day 1.
Why we arn't winning the war on terror. Reason 1.

I call it a draw, with the civilians getting it up the ass on both sides.
One of those rare occasions I can agree with you.

As in WW1, both sides can move their drinks cabinets six inches closer to each other's capital. Woot. Now they can get to work fixing this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/middle_east_beirut_destruction/img/1.jpg).

I don't hold with the notion that Israel's militray capacity is declining, I simply think the approached Hizbollah in the wrong way.

They trusted that their armour would simply bulldoze Hizbollah under its tracks, whereas they ought to have infiltrated and compromised it. As it is, Hizbollah employed Iranian and Syrian ani-tank missiles to a modicum of success.

Quite whether or not Hizbollah can claim a victory will depend upon the manner in which the conflict is recieved amongst the average Lebanese, however I should imagine they will be funded and supported to a greater extent by Syria and Iran from now on.

A member of the NS Kahane Chai- er cough cough- Jew Crew suggesting Hezb'allah won? What is the world coming to?

:D

And Hezb'allah didn't win. They just didn't lose.

I think it was a 100% Hizbollah victory:

1. Israel failed miserably in archieving it's goals: the complete destruction of Hizbollah and freeing the two POW's.
2. As I said above, the Israeli Soldiers are still captive.
3. Hizbollah only gained influence.

Not to mention, Israel did archieve one goal: bombing Lebanon back twenty years. And it was easier to win for Hizbollah than for the IDF.

Why we arn't winning the war on terror. Reason 1.
Any better ideas?

I'm dying to hear them.

Any better ideas?

I'm dying to hear them.


RockTheWalMart.
RockTheWalMart.

I call it a draw, with the civilians getting it up the ass on both sides.
Civilians hardly got it "up the ass" on the Israeli side, almost all of the deaths were of soldiers.

In Lebanon, on the other hand, 90% of the deaths were of civilians, and the death toll is much higher.

Oh no, please! I don't want to read/hear/see anything taht would suggest that Hezbollah won.
Because this is not a war against Hezbollah. You know who died? Children, women, and poor people.
Two Israeli soldiers captured??? YES! AND WHAT? They are SOLDIERS! Paid to take risks...PAid to kill!

Hezbollah is extremist, yes, it is dangerous. But they didn't win. People think they are right, because, in this story, most of the time, innocent people are dying. The reason why Hezbollah increased his power is because of the military action of Israeli. That's all...

And do not post any comment to say I support Hezbollah...

Oh no, please! I don't want to read/hear/see anything taht would suggest that Hezbollah won.
Because this is not a war against Hezbollah. You know who died? Children, women, and poor people.
Two Israeli soldiers captured??? YES! AND WHAT? They are SOLDIERS! Paid to take risks...PAid to kill!

Hezbollah is extremist, yes, it is dangerous. But they didn't win. People think they are right, because, in this story, most of the time, innocent people are dying. The reason why Hezbollah increased his power is because of the military action of Israeli. That's all...

And do not post any comment to say I support Hezbollah...

Utter tit. Why not consider a conflict in regards to Real Politik, not pathetic ranting.

No Hezbollah did not win. And no, Israel did not win either.

Here are some facts:

Israel is getting their two soldiers they wanted.
The Lebanonese Army is finally deploying south of the Litani River and, in conjection with an expanded UN Force, will begin disarming Hezbollah.

On the flip side, Israel is pulling out of South Lebanon.
Also, will probably release people to the ICRC to go back to Lebanon.

To say that one side won over the other is just plain dilluting themselves.

Hezbollah won. The IDF won. Bush and Blair won. Iran and Syria won. Radical extremists on all sides won. The only losers here are the Lebanese and Israeli people, and both of them think they won, and the moderates throughout the world, who are steadily becoming a silenced minority.

Goddamn it.

There are no victors in this battle.

Hey now, In terms America's Vietnam style strategy of achieveing the ultimate body count wins you the war, Isreal won! *laughs*

No Hezbollah did not win. And no, Israel did not win either.

Here are some facts:

Israel is getting their two soldiers they wanted.
The Lebanonese Army is finally deploying south of the Litani River and, in conjection with an expanded UN Force, will begin disarming Hezbollah.

On the flip side, Israel is pulling out of South Lebanon.
Also, will probably release people to the ICRC to go back to Lebanon.

To say that one side won over the other is just plain dilluting themselves.

I really, really hope that things come out like that, but I'm not at all sure that Hezzbollah'll give up its weapons and power so easily. I can envision a sort of ongoing guerilla war on the part of Hezzbollah, claiming that the Lebanese 'sellouts' and the 'zionist' UN are trying to subjugate Islam by subjugating Hezzbollah.

And with their popularity right now? People might even believe them.

There are no victors in this battle.

Agreed 100% CanuckHeaven.

To say that one side won over the other is just plain dilluting themselves.
Bolding mine.

How does one go about dilluting themselves? :p

I really, really hope that things come out like that, but I'm not at all sure that Hezzbollah'll give up its weapons and power so easily. I can envision a sort of ongoing guerilla war on the part of Hezzbollah, claiming that the Lebanese 'sellouts' and the 'zionist' UN are trying to subjugate Islam by subjugating Hezzbollah.

And with their popularity right now? People might even believe them.

The problem is also that, even if Hizbollah is disarmed, it will be re-armed just as readily by a certain two states.

I really, really hope that things come out like that, but I'm not at all sure that Hezzbollah'll give up its weapons and power so easily. I can envision a sort of ongoing guerilla war on the part of Hezzbollah, claiming that the Lebanese 'sellouts' and the 'zionist' UN are trying to subjugate Islam by subjugating Hezzbollah.

And with their popularity right now? People might even believe them.

Well Hezbollah is a political Party so giving up power probably is not in the cards.

Bolding mine.

How does one go about dilluting themselves? :p
Because the spelling is so important?:rolleyes:

Bolding mine.

How does one go about dilluting themselves? :p

*shrugs* :D

The Lebanonese Army is finally deploying south of the Litani River and, in conjection with an expanded UN Force, will begin disarming Hezbollah.
They will probably be handing in army surplus, like the disarmament of the combatants in Bosnia, or the militias in any number of African states.

Any better ideas?

I'm dying to hear them.


How about fighting a war to WIN and not fighting it so we piss off as few people as possible? You cannot win a military war AND the PR war in this day and age. We fail because we lack the will to fight an all out war. That is why the IDF failed; they were not allowed to do an all out assault from day one. They tried to fight 'Bush Style' and got the same results that those tactics get for us in Iraq.

War is NOT pretty. It's ugly, vicious, nasty. If someone lobs a rocket at you, the town that rocket was fired from gets leveled. If elements that keep planting IED's to nail your troops are being aided by a given village, you flatten that village and kill everyone in it.

Innocent people die, yes. I refer back to the 'war is nasty' bit. If you are going to fight a war, however, you can't be half assed about it.

The problem is also that, even if Hizbollah is disarmed, it will be re-armed just as readily by a certain two states.

Probably not.

Probably not.

You don't read the Telegraph do you?

Where on earth did Hizbollah find those anti-tank missiles, the one's designed by Russia in 1994, and replicated by Iran in 200, with SYRIAN PURCHASE STAMPS on them?

1. There is a Hezbollah to claim victory. The IDF failed to completely decimate the organization.
2. The two Israeli soldiers Hezbollah captured haven't been returned yet.
3. There is no provision in the UN resolution addressing reparations for the damage done to Israel.
4. By all accounts, Hezbollah has grown even more popular in Lebanon.
5. Hassan Nasrallah is still alive.

I don't think they won as:

1) You can't decimate Hezbollah using force like you can't decimate terrorism. You can weak them, but every time you kill one of them you grew hate in someone else
2) Never though Hezbollah would return them, never though Israel would stop attacking if they did.
3) There is no provision in the UN resolution addressing reparations for the damage done to Libanon
4) True, refer to #1
5) Even if a leader die, an other one will raise, does capturing top mobster stop crime?

How about fighting a war to WIN and not fighting it so we piss off as few people as possible? You cannot win a military war AND the PR war in this day and age. We fail because we lack the will to fight an all out war. That is why the IDF failed; they were not allowed to do an all out assault from day one. They tried to fight 'Bush Style' and got the same results that those tactics get for us in Iraq.
The IDF fail in military terms by the virtue of their very existence. Whether Active or Removed, they will continue to exist as a fuelling power for the Islamist extremists' propaganda who accuse Israel of imperialistic tendencies. Each move they make creates shockwaves of anti-Zionist sentiment that results in yet more recruits for the extremist groups. They are not fighting a battle they can win. Their best hope in terms of international relations is to press a stalemate, which they had been doing pretty well up until a month ago.

On the other hand, they're doing a pretty good job of maintaining their hold on Israel itself. "Ooh, terrorists bad. You guys need us if you want any hope of surviving". Yep, sounds liks a solid electoral strategy there. Just like their highly successful model democracy.

You don't read the Telegraph do you?

Where on earth did Hizbollah find those anti-tank missiles, the one's designed by Russia in 1994, and replicated by Iran in 200, with SYRIAN PURCHASE STAMPS on them?

I said they would probably stop doing it. I did not say that they did not supply them with weapons for everyone knows that they did supply them with weapons.

You don't read the Telegraph do you?

Where on earth did Hizbollah find those anti-tank missiles, the one's designed by Russia in 1994, and replicated by Iran in 200, with SYRIAN PURCHASE STAMPS on them?

Quite a few IDF Weapons got "Made in the USA" on them :rolleyes:

Everybody is supplied so both sides can keep going on slaughtering in a mindless way :(

I hate this world *shoots himself*

I said they would probably stop doing it. I did not say that they did not supply them with weapons for everyone knows that they did supply them with weapons.

They bloody well will not. It is simply more expediant to pay Hizbollah to fight Israel than engage the IDF in open warfare.

Quite frankly, I fail to see how either side won. All we have is a huge death total, of around 1000+ civilians and many soldiers, a million displaced, Lebanon in tatters and ruins, Israel having wasted tons of capital and a frail cease-fire. If anyone, especially if they are Lebanese, bethinks this to be a victory for Hezbollah they are pretty blind. It's merely a cessation of hostilities, the grand sum of which Hezbollah may well lose. No one has won anything...least of all the victims of the affair.

They bloody well will not. It is simply more expediant to pay Hizbollah to fight Israel than engage the IDF in open warfare.

And yet, the Lebanese Army is taking control of South Lebanon and will be disarming Hezbollah. Also, Iran and Syria are both under the microscope so they will not do something to provoke anything. Iran, however, still has to answer for their breaches of the NPT.

Quite a few IDF Weapons got "Made in the USA" on them :rolleyes:

Everybody is supplied so both sides can keep going on slaughtering in a mindless way :(

I hate this world *shoots himself*

There is a not so subtle difference. Israel is a sovereign nation. Hizbollah is a political movement that decided to arm itself. You are not comparing apples to apples.

How about fighting a war to WIN and not fighting it so we piss off as few people as possible? You cannot win a military war AND the PR war in this day and age. We fail because we lack the will to fight an all out war. That is why the IDF failed; they were not allowed to do an all out assault from day one. They tried to fight 'Bush Style' and got the same results that those tactics get for us in Iraq.

War is NOT pretty. It's ugly, vicious, nasty. If someone lobs a rocket at you, the town that rocket was fired from gets leveled. If elements that keep planting IED's to nail your troops are being aided by a given village, you flatten that village and kill everyone in it.

Innocent people die, yes. I refer back to the 'war is nasty' bit. If you are going to fight a war, however, you can't be half assed about it.
I feel exactly the same. The other person said Israel shouldn't have used overwhelming force, which is why I asked how else are they to win.

There is a not so subtle difference. Israel is a sovereign nation. Hizbollah is a political movement that decided to arm itself. You are not comparing apples to apples.

I am comparing apples with apples, both the IDF and Hizbollah are equal in my eyes: they are both Killing Machines.

I am comparing apples with apples, both the IDF and Hizbollah are equal in my eyes: they are both Killing Machines.
The IDF tries to minimize civilian casualties. Hezbollah tries to maximize them.

Your sense of ethics is disgusting.

Quite frankly, I fail to see how either side won. All we have is a huge death total, of around 1000+ civilians and many soldiers, a million displaced, Lebanon in tatters and ruins, Israel having wasted tons of capital and a frail cease-fire. If anyone, especially if they are Lebanese, bethinks this to be a victory for Hezbollah they are pretty blind. It's merely a cessation of hostilities, the grand sum of which Hezbollah may well lose. No one has won anything...least of all the victims of the affair.
Israel's people cling to its military wing more than ever.

Lebanon's people cling to its military wing more than ever.

It's hard to see how the IDF and Hezbollah did not make a political killing out of this little skirmish, if you excuse my poor choice of words.

The IDF tries to minimize civilian casualties.
They're crap at it.

Hezbollah tries to maximize them.
They're crap at it.


I need a new ironymeter.

The IDF tries to minimize civilian casualties. Hezbollah tries to maximize them.

Your sense of ethics is disgusting.
Yes, Hezbollah actually bragged about how civilians are taking the brunt of the onslaught. Bloody pathetic.

The IDF tries to minimize civilian casualties. Hezbollah tries to maximize them.

Your sense of ethics is disgusting.

Precisely. The IDF gave prior warning of its attacks, and sufficient time for civilian withdrawl. Hizbollah intended to cause exclusively civilian casualties.

Israel's people cling to its military wing more than ever.

Lebanon's people cling to its military wing more than ever.

It's hard to see how the IDF and Hezbollah did not make a political killing out of this little skirmish, if you excuse my poor choice of words.
Still no victors though, eh? Unless you consider the IDF and Hezbollah to have gained from the situation. However, to say Hezbollah won is awfully one-sided, and puerile.

There are no victors in this battle.

I would agree with you.

Again.

:eek:

However, to say Hezbollah won is awfully one-sided, and puerile.

Agreed. Frankly, I don't think anyone truely won this battle. People may have lost more than others, but that doesn't mean the people who lost the least won. They just weren't hurt as much.

Still no victors though, eh? Unless you consider the IDF and Hezbollah to have gained from the situation. However, to say Hezbollah won is awfully one-sided, and puerile.
Childish maybe. One sided, maybe. Perhaps I am being naive in my denouncement of extremism. But the way I see it, the IDF and Hezbollah together have made a gain from this conflict at almost negligible loss to themselves.

After all, what did the IDF lose? A few bullets, a few soldiers and a helicopter. Hezbollah, a few bullets, a few fighters and a few rockets. For that price, they have both gained phenomenal support from the Israeli people and the Lebanese people accordingly.

It is undoubtedly a victory for militaristic governance this day.

You are not comparing apples to apples.

zOMG! Apples2Apples is the coolest game EVAH!!!11 /hijack

Childish maybe. One sided, maybe. Perhaps I am being naive in my denouncement of extremism. But the way I see it, the IDF and Hezbollah together have made a gain from this conflict at almost negligible loss to themselves.

After all, what did the IDF lose? A few bullets, a few soldiers and a helicopter. Hezbollah, a few bullets, a few fighters and a few rockets. For that price, they have both gained phenomenal support from the Israeli people and the Lebanese people accordingly.

It is undoubtedly a victory for militaristic governance this day.

Unlike Hezbollah, though, the IDF is not a terrorist organization, it is a branch of a government. Therefore, losses and gains by the IDF are therefore losses and gains for the Israeli government, and indirectly the Israeli people.

And don't be too sure of the IDF's support from the Israeli people. THere are quite a few who are less-than-pleased with the IDFs lack of return. Granted, most of that is just the Opposition bitching, but still.

You could say that at least Israel got their "don't fuck with us" message across.

It isn't over yet. We won't know who won for a while. It seems to me that at the moment both sides made serious concessions in order to pursue greater objectives, and whether or not they will achieve those objectives remains to be seen.

It is undoubtedly a victory for militaristic governance this day.
A victory for them, an anathema for the citizens (and economies) of the countries involved. To me it is the exact opposite of a victory on a grander scheme - it is the suppression of freedom.

The IDF tries to minimize civilian casualties. Hezbollah tries to maximize them.

Your sense of ethics is disgusting.
Qana 1996 springs to mind.

It isn't over yet. We won't know who won for a while. It seems to me that at the moment both sides made serious concessions in order to pursue greater objectives, and whether or not they will achieve those objectives remains to be seen.
Precisely. This isn't over, not by a long shot. Declaring a victor at this point is futile.


Unlike Hezbollah, though, the IDF is not a terrorist organization, it is a branch of a government. Therefore, losses and gains by the IDF are therefore losses and gains for the Israeli government, and indirectly the Israeli people.

And don't be too sure of the IDF's support from the Israeli people. THere are quite a few who are less-than-pleased with the IDFs lack of return. Granted, most of that is just the Opposition bitching, but still.
Indeed. Unlike Turkey, Israel's military is not in a dominant position. It can only last as long as it maintains popular support.

You could say that at least Israel got their "don't fuck with us" message across.

Not very effectively. Yes, they got it across, but their packaging made them a pariah, not a triumphant defender. Israel needs to give just a wee bit more attention to its PR division.

You could say that at least Israel got their "don't fuck with us" message across.
I really don't think so. If that is true, Hezb'allah merely said "Bring it you pussies".

Both are still standing. I don't see either quivering in their boots.

It was a draw.

I really don't think so. If that is true, Hezb'allah merely said "Bring it you pussies".

Both are still standing. I don't see either quivering in their boots.

It was a draw.

Yes. I believe that Israel would have won in the end but the civilian casualties would have been high enough that the turn of world opinion against them would be a loss for them anyway. As it is, the UN handing Israel and Hezbollah a cease-fire agreement means a draw. Hezbollah can claim that it successfully stopped Israel's advance but it wasn't them who accomplished that but the U.S. and France. I doubt however that the average Lebanese or Syrian or Iranian will realize this however or will pretend they don't know it.

I really don't think so. If that is true, Hezb'allah merely said "Bring it you pussies".

Both are still standing. I don't see either quivering in their boots.

It was a draw.

It's not about numbers this time. Hezbollah always knew that Israel were superior in weapons and numbers, but they didn't think they had the guts to attack a central part of hezbollah which is covered in residential areas.

But now they know.

Yes. I believe that Israel would have won in the end but the civilian casualties would have been high enough that the turn of world opinion against them would be a loss for them anyway. As it is, the UN handing Israel and Hezbollah a cease-fire agreement means a draw. Hezbollah can claim that it successfully stopped Israel's advance but it wasn't them who accomplished that but the U.S. and France. I doubt however that the average Lebanese or Syrian or Iranian will realize this however or will pretend they don't know it.
They will also fail to realize that it was Hezbollah who dragged them into this damn mess in the first place! I cannot believe they actually think Hezbollah not only won, but won for them... -_- The self-same organisation which bragged about how civilians, and not its members, were taking the brunt of the conflict.

A victory for them, an anathema for the citizens (and economies) of the countries involved. To me it is the exact opposite of a victory on a grander scheme - it is the suppression of freedom.
To that which I stand for, it is certainly a loss. That doesn't mean other people and groups haven't won; Hezbollah being one of those groups, as far as I can tell. Yes, I hate it too.

Unlike Hezbollah, though, the IDF is not a terrorist organization, it is a branch of a government. Therefore, losses and gains by the IDF are therefore losses and gains for the Israeli government, and indirectly the Israeli people.

And don't be too sure of the IDF's support from the Israeli people. THere are quite a few who are less-than-pleased with the IDFs lack of return. Granted, most of that is just the Opposition bitching, but still.
Terrorist organization or not, they are still a political body in themselves that have much to gain from the radicalisation of the public that elects them. I can't help but hold them and Hezbollah jointly responsible for their success in this venture, regardless of the "terrorist" label that one carries and the "military" label of the other.

the simple military reality is this. Israel stated two aims.

1: to recover its captured troops

2: to destroy, at least operationally, Hezbollah.

They did neither and as such has been self proclaimed a failed campaign by the IDF and Isreali politicians. but not bush, he says its a victory...:rolleyes: To those who say the IDF havent failed, explain why they commander of the battle was replaced half way through, an unprecedented move for the Isrealis during a war?

Hezbollah are still the only army Isreal has never beaten despite numerous attempts. they have shown vunerabilities in the IDF's armour, helicopters, navy and tactical thinking. the fact that they chose to stop despite being able to hit further and further into Israel more and more frequently quite simply shows that they ceased fire on their own terms.

Isreal needed this ceasefire as much as Hezbollah

To that which I stand for, it is certainly a loss. That doesn't mean other people and groups haven't won; Hezbollah being one of those groups, as far as I can tell. Yes, I hate it too.
In that case, I'd consider it something of a draw between the two. A cease-fire is simply what its name implies...a cessation of hostilities, not the end of a war in some kind of victory.

They will also fail to realize that it was Hezbollah who dragged them into this damn mess in the first place! I cannot believe they actually think Hezbollah not only won, but won for them... -_- The self-same organisation which bragged about how civilians, and not its members, were taking the brunt of the conflict.

Iran needs every weapon it can get its hands on to attack Israel with. CNN says that large sums of money are supposed to go into Lebanon to rebuild the damage... supposively from Iran. Iran and Syria have grown closer as well. While Hezbollah had nothing to do with the end of the fighting they did gain the approval of many in the Middle East and the organization and its leader viewed with awe. Perhaps they can claim victory on that front.

In that case, I'd consider it something of a draw between the two. A cease-fire is simply what its name implies...a cessation of hostilities, not the end of a war in some kind of victory.
The war in my mind has never been about Israel verses Lebanon. The last four days in particular should reveal that this has always been about stealing the hearts and minds of the average citizen. And the people have definitely lost.

But now they know.
Now they know what?

Losing a lot of men is costly? In four weeks, 91 dead soldiers out of an army of 125,000, out of a population of 7 million is a baaad ratio.

They didn't defeat them in 20 years of occupation. They didn't defeat them now, and they won't defeat them militarily tomorrow either.

Now they know what?

Losing a lot of men is costly? In four weeks, 91 dead soldiers out of an army of 125,000, out of a population of 7 million is a baaad ratio.

They didn't defeat them in 20 years of occupation. They didn't defeat them now, and they won't defeat them militarily tomorrow either.

No, they know that Israel are not scared to attack them even if they are in the middle of residential areas.

No, they know that Israel are not scared to attack them even if they are in the middle of residential areas.

hezbollah always knew isreal had no scruples killing innocents. this isnt the first time the IDF have taken them on and failed to defeat them.

Iran needs every weapon it can get its hands on to attack Israel with. CNN says that large sums of money are supposed to go into Lebanon to rebuild the damage... supposively from Iran. Iran and Syria have grown closer as well. While Hezbollah had nothing to do with the end of the fighting they did gain the approval of many in the Middle East and the organization and its leader viewed with awe. Perhaps they can claim victory on that front.
Perhaps...and a loss for the rest of the world in every way conceivable. :/ Especially for Lebanon. Hezbollah shall remain contemptible scum in my eyes.

No, they know that Israel are not scared to attack them even if they are in the middle of residential areas.
They knew that anyway!

Jesus, look at the occupation, look at the Operation Grapes of Wrath, look back to the 80's- the IDF (or its proxy SLA) operated freely in urban/non-rural areas.

Israel got a bad bloodied nose. The worrying thing is that there may be blood in the water.

More so, the Pentagon seem to have been using the IAF tactics at the start of this as a blueprint for dealing militarily with Iran. I hope someone tells them the IAF tactics weren't as successful as they made them out to be.

I am comparing apples with apples, both the IDF and Hizbollah are equal in my eyes: they are both Killing Machines.

It doesn't matter what your 'eyes' tell you. You are still wrong about them being an equal comparison. You can claim the sky is purple but it's not. Hizbollah is NOT supposed to be running around with rockets and other military arms. They are NOT the Lebanese Army, nor are they a sovereign state. Both sides killed innocent civilians; that's as far as the comparison goes.

How about fighting a war to WIN and not fighting it so we piss off as few people as possible? You cannot win a military war AND the PR war in this day and age. We fail because we lack the will to fight an all out war. That is why the IDF failed; they were not allowed to do an all out assault from day one. They tried to fight 'Bush Style' and got the same results that those tactics get for us in Iraq.

War is NOT pretty. It's ugly, vicious, nasty. If someone lobs a rocket at you, the town that rocket was fired from gets leveled. If elements that keep planting IED's to nail your troops are being aided by a given village, you flatten that village and kill everyone in it.

Innocent people die, yes. I refer back to the 'war is nasty' bit. If you are going to fight a war, however, you can't be half assed about it.
I couldnt possibly agree more with you.