NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www2.piratpartiet.se/nyheter/press_release_pirate_party_launches_worlds_first_commercial_darknet/

In essence a darknet is a point of contact that allows you to share your files or data via the internet using an untraceable address


I was wondering what you all thought about it … like most things I like and dislike a lot about it.

Right now in Sweden, people's hard drives are smoking from the amount of music being downloaded to them.

now i see why ruffy loves the swedes so much.

Nuh nuh nuh nuh Darknet!

http://www2.piratpartiet.se/nyheter/press_release_pirate_party_launches_worlds_first_commercial_darknet/

In essence a darknet is a point of contact that allows you to share your files or data via the internet using an untraceable address


I was wondering what you all thought about it … like most things I like and dislike a lot about it.
I have to say I approve.


And not because it's backed by the Pirate Party. Oh no.

Pirates once again gain another point over the ninjas....i wonder what the score is now.

Is it just me or does anyone else picture a bunch of people with cutlass', eyepatches, torn breeches, and headscarves hanging out together when they read "pirate party."

Is it just me or does anyone else picture a bunch of people with cutlass', eyepatches, torn breeches, and headscarves hanging out together when they read "pirate party."


I do, minus the sodomy of course.

Clever little buggers, they are. I won't be using the service until there is an actual case that has gone beyond the consequence of a fine. Unless the consequence is imprisonment the Swedish Police cannot demand to find out the identity behind the IP, and luckily the courts have been quite consistent so far in only fining, not that there have been all that many cases. It is not a prioritised area for the police, and the burden of proof is tricky.

Well, my opinions on internet piracy have radically changed since the days of my middle school Kazaa Kraziness, and my conclusion that the violation of intellectual property rights through piracy, no matter how deserved, is quite wrong.

Is it just me or does anyone else picture a bunch of people with cutlass', eyepatches, torn breeches, and headscarves hanging out together when they read "pirate party."


yes, but in my vision they are pimply teenagers from wealthy families and they have a clubhouse in one of their backyards decorated as a pirate ship from where they all congregate with their laptops

http://www.pcmofo.com/projects/laptop/29.jpg


I don't see any problem with this idea though - I think the technology wars are exciting.

yes, but in my vision they are pimply teenagers from wealthy families and they have a clubhouse in one of their backyards decorated as a pirate ship from where they all congregate with their laptops

http://www.pcmofo.com/projects/laptop/29.jpg


I don't see any problem with this idea though - I think the technology wars are exciting.
I agree … though I was just waiting for someone to the play the “TERRRORRRISST!!! U ARE HELPING TERRORISM” card

Right now in Sweden, people's hard drives are smoking from the amount of music being downloaded to them.

Right now? More like since years back. This new law that criminalises downloading (which was not illegal until recently) has criminalised most of the population. It's quite ridiculous.

http://www2.piratpartiet.se/nyheter/press_release_pirate_party_launches_worlds_first_commercial_darknet/

In essence a darknet is a point of contact that allows you to share your files or data via the internet using an untraceable address


I was wondering what you all thought about it … like most things I like and dislike a lot about it.
I heartily approve. Sure, it can be used by criminal organizations. But it's probably one of the best tools we could think of for preventing governments from choking off this one free way to communicate. In essence, the internet is the ultimate check against would-be dictatorships. As sad as that may seem, it's true.

I heartily approve. Sure, it can be used by criminal organizations. But it's probably one of the best tools we could think of for preventing governments from choking off this one free way to communicate. In essence, the internet is the ultimate check against would-be dictatorships. As sad as that may seem, it's true.

However, you know this will ONLY be used for illegal activity.

However, you know this will ONLY be used for illegal activity.

Pfft. VPNs have tonnes of privacy uses. "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you." In any case, it's up for the government to prove illegality of the individual users, and this will make that more difficult.

Pfft. VPNs have tonnes of privacy uses. "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you."
Hell every educational institution in Minnesota uses VPN technology for wireless security as well as off campus access to resources.

However, you know this will ONLY be used for illegal activity.
Hah. No. Even if that was true, things are only illegal when a government says that they are.

...

Okay, that made me sound like an anarchist. Let me try again:

What is illegal in one government's eyes is fine in another's. Free communication online might be illegal in China, for instance, but it's legal in the U.S. and Europe. What I'm trying to say is that while a government might deem an activity illegal, that doesn't make it automatically wrong. And no, that is not me trying to defend piracy. That's just pointing out a fact.

...damn it, I STILL sound like an anarchist...

Hah. No. Even if that was true, things are only illegal when a government says that they are.

...

Okay, that made me sound like an anarchist. Let me try again:

What is illegal in one government's eyes is fine in another's. Free communication online might be illegal in China, for instance, but it's legal in the U.S. and Europe. What I'm trying to say is that while a government might deem an activity illegal, that doesn't make it automatically wrong. And no, that is not me trying to defend piracy. That's just pointing out a fact.

...damn it, I STILL sound like an anarchist...
I agree … freedom of speech is our counterbalance to the government

When we start letting the government determine what is “accepted” we loose more and more of that counterbalance

I agree … freedom of speech is our counterbalance to the government

When we start letting the government determine what is “accepted” we loose more and more of that counterbalance

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/vonbek/01realitytv_2.jpg

Hah. No. Even if that was true, things are only illegal when a government says that they are.

...

Okay, that made me sound like an anarchist. Let me try again:

What is illegal in one government's eyes is fine in another's. Free communication online might be illegal in China, for instance, but it's legal in the U.S. and Europe. What I'm trying to say is that while a government might deem an activity illegal, that doesn't make it automatically wrong. And no, that is not me trying to defend piracy. That's just pointing out a fact.

...damn it, I STILL sound like an anarchist...

So child porn is only wrong because the government says so.... right.

So child porn is only wrong because the government says so.... right.
No, it's only illegal when the government says so. There's a difference.

No, it's only illegal when the government says so. There's a difference.

That doesn't justify making it impossible for people to crack down on child porn.

That doesn't justify making it impossible for people to crack down on child porn.

And screaming "child porn!!! think of the children!!!" does not justify anything.

That doesn't justify making it impossible for people to crack down on child porn.

He's just saying something is not illegal until it is by definition "violation of the literal law". Just because something is illegal doesnt mean its wrong and vice versa but something cannot be illegal until thees actually a law that applies to it.

http://www.piratemerch.com/images/iheartpirates300.jpg

At the latest when RIAA began suing people for downloading music put on the net by the artists themselves (or did they even sue the artists?), I lost the rest of support for their cause... apart from that, whatever I do on the internet is private, even if it's perfectly legal. It's just no goverment's business...

And screaming "child porn!!! think of the children!!!" does not justify anything.

I wasn't trying to justify anything, i am just saying that this is taking a major step back in the fight against child porn. With this sort of thing it might be impossible to ever solve the problem now.

However, you know this will ONLY be used for illegal activity.

You mean illegal activity made illegal by capitalist "pigs", right? That thing is gonna be a huge music download place. And I like the idea of lifting the illegality of that!:)

As for the child porn thing, that is never going to be solved. Sorry to tell you this way...:(

As for terrorism, we need more active defenses. Like allowing businesses in tall building to own (and subsequently be allowed to use (on terrorists)) AA cannons.

Maybe the solution to all the crime is equipping the people (i.e., equipping underwear with some sort of taser to prevent rape and the like (not sure about the practicality, but...)).

I wasn't trying to justify anything, i am just saying that this is taking a major step back in the fight against child porn. With this sort of thing it might be impossible to ever solve the problem now.

How about looking at it from a glass half full perspective. This is taking a major step forward in promoting civil liberties.

I wasn't trying to justify anything, i am just saying that this is taking a major step back in the fight against child porn. With this sort of thing it might be impossible to ever solve the problem now.
Ah, I missed that, I thought you were using child porn as an analogy. I suspect, however, there are other methods as opposed to watching traffic.

How about looking at it from a glass half full perspective. This is taking a major step forward in promoting civil liberties.

Meh, the questions is, is it really worth it? Because the step forward isn't really that big. Despite popular belief, no one from the government just sits on a computer watchig everything you do. Sure they can if they had time and patience, but there would be no point in them doing it unless they thought you are a major threat. I would say that the internet is already a very private place already.

Now music downloading is a different thing, i think people should be working with the government trying to get it legalized rather then trying to completely alienate yourself from them.

LOL, pirate party! :p

Meh, the questions is, is it really worth it? Because the step forward isn't really that big. Despite popular belief, no one from the government just sits on a computer watchig everything you do. Sure they can if they had time and patience, but there would be no point in them doing it unless they thought you are a major threat. I would say that the internet is already a very private place already.

It not that I think they sit there in dark rooms reading my post on NSG, it's that they could if they wanted to and I'd have no way of either knowing or complaining. As I'm sure other on here will agree, sometimes a little government overthrow can be a good thing and curretn governments have too much control over our methods or communication now.

Now music downloading is a different thing, i think people should be working with the government trying to get it legalized rather then trying to completely alienate yourself from them.

Never going to happen. It would require the repeal of over a centurys worth of copyright legislation and the will of the government to go against big business, neither of which is very likely.

It not that I think they sit there in dark rooms reading my post on NSG, it's that they could if they wanted to and I'd have no way of either knowing or complaining. As I'm sure other on here will agree, sometimes a little government overthrow can be a good thing and curretn governments have too much control over our methods or communication now.


But if it means loosing the war against child porn (sorry to sound tacky lol), then i don't think it is worth it.


Never going to happen. It would require the repeal of over a centurys worth of copyright legislation and the will of the government to go against big business, neither of which is very likely.

Ah well. I'm not a massive fan of screwing over the music industry anyway (even though i do download music)

Is it just me or does anyone else picture a bunch of people with cutlass', eyepatches, torn breeches, and headscarves hanging out together when they read "pirate party."

And handing out buttons and pamphlets.

http://www2.piratpartiet.se/nyheter/press_release_pirate_party_launches_worlds_first_commercial_darknet/

In essence a darknet is a point of contact that allows you to share your files or data via the internet using an untraceable address

I was wondering what you all thought about it … like most things I like and dislike a lot about it.

What I find amazing is that at least in the US, the fiber optic cable that carries the Internet in the US (largely owned by Qwest and What Used To Be MCI) is composed of 24 fibers.

Only one of the fibers is in use. The rest are dark, and have been unused since they were laid down.

If you wanted to start your own Internet (like the US government did with SIPRNET)...

Seems like the net benefit is better than the harm it could cause. Go Swedes!

Hah. No. Even if that was true, things are only illegal when a government says that they are.

...

Okay, that made me sound like an anarchist. Let me try again:

What is illegal in one government's eyes is fine in another's. Free communication online might be illegal in China, for instance, but it's legal in the U.S. and Europe. What I'm trying to say is that while a government might deem an activity illegal, that doesn't make it automatically wrong. And no, that is not me trying to defend piracy. That's just pointing out a fact.

...damn it, I STILL sound like an anarchist...


Not nessisarly a bad thing . . .

Right now? More like since years back. This new law that criminalises downloading (which was not illegal until recently) has criminalised most of the population. It's quite ridiculous.
Sweden sure has been sucking lately.

Meh, the questions is, is it really worth it? Because the step forward isn't really that big. Despite popular belief, no one from the government just sits on a computer watchig everything you do. Sure they can if they had time and patience, but there would be no point in them doing it unless they thought you are a major threat. I would say that the internet is already a very private place already.

Now music downloading is a different thing, i think people should be working with the government trying to get it legalized rather then trying to completely alienate yourself from them.
You would be wrong … in the security field government (ours and others) is a major concern when designing a survivable secure transmission.

We are not the only one that monitors traffic other “Legitimate” and non legitimate sources do the same.

Right now? More like since years back. This new law that criminalises downloading (which was not illegal until recently) has criminalised most of the population. It's quite ridiculous.

Ahh, but is it rediculous? What government wouldn't want the ability to arrest any of its citizens whenever they wanted to? Speaking ill of the government may not be illegal, but downloading music is. What a better tool to have for cracking down on dissidents?

What I find amazing is that at least in the US, the fiber optic cable that carries the Internet in the US (largely owned by Qwest and What Used To Be MCI) is composed of 24 fibers.

Only one of the fibers is in use. The rest are dark, and have been unused since they were laid down.

If you wanted to start your own Internet (like the US government did with SIPRNET)...
Note yes you are right about the dark fiber (@home and At&t are also major players)

Though SIPRNET usualy travles "Light" fiber not dark fiber it ususes real leased connections

Also access is avaliable VIA VPN and the internet

Internet archatecture also supports the sending of SIPRNET packets with end to end reliabilty

Ahh, but is it rediculous? What government wouldn't want the ability to arrest any of its citizens whenever they wanted to? Speaking ill of the government may not be illegal, but downloading music is. What a better tool to have for cracking down on dissidents?

This is Sweden we're talking about.

Sweden sure has been sucking lately.

US cock, unfortunately.

US cock, unfortunately.
Na... Sweden is being good... cause the US government WON'T like this.

Eraclea']Na... Sweden is being good... cause the US government WON'T like this.

It's not what we as citizens do - it's what the government does. And we citizens wouldn't need to do this, had the Swedish government not buckled under US pressure and made downloading illegal and then later on buckled to even more pressure and attempted to strike at the Pirate bay. It was quite the scandal here - how Swedish authorities went the errands of US interests. Alas, when you're as small as Sweden and the US is your biggest trading partner...

It's not what we as citizens do - it's what the government does. And we citizens wouldn't need to do this, had the Swedish government not buckled under US pressure and made downloading illegal and then later on buckled to even more pressure and attempted to strike at the Pirate bay. It was quite the scandal here - how Swedish authorities went the errands of US interests. Alas, when you're as small as Sweden and the US is your biggest trading partner...

I thought that was more to do with TRIPs than the US per se. I mean, everyone signed onto that after all.

I thought that was more to do with TRIPs than the US per se. I mean, everyone signed onto that after all.

Lol.. not everyone.

It's not what we as citizens do - it's what the government does. And we citizens wouldn't need to do this, had the Swedish government not buckled under US pressure and made downloading illegal and then later on buckled to even more pressure and attempted to strike at the Pirate bay. It was quite the scandal here - how Swedish authorities went the errands of US interests. Alas, when you're as small as Sweden and the US is your biggest trading partner...
I just want to say I am sorry thoes fucktards are puting pressure on you guys ... some of us try

US cock, unfortunately.
:D

It's not what we as citizens do - it's what the government does. And we citizens wouldn't need to do this, had the Swedish government not buckled under US pressure and made downloading illegal and then later on buckled to even more pressure and attempted to strike at the Pirate bay. It was quite the scandal here - how Swedish authorities went the errands of US interests. Alas, when you're as small as Sweden and the US is your biggest trading partner...
A Moltov or two would have shown your Fed's whose the boss of Sweden. *nod*

A Moltov or two would have shown your Fed's whose the boss of Sweden. *nod*

Feds? We're not a federation. We're not even a republic...

I thought that was more to do with TRIPs than the US per se. I mean, everyone signed onto that after all.

http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=1206
http://svt.se/svt/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=22620&a=602079&lid=puff_401860&lpos=rubrik

Feds? We're not a federation. We're not even a republic...
Fine, it'll show the Swedish equivilant of fed's who's boss.

http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=1206
http://svt.se/svt/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=22620&a=602079&lid=puff_401860&lpos=rubrik

Well that's a pretty shitty thing to do.

You can't blame the US for it being criminalized though. That's the EU. You should leave it.

Well that's a pretty shitty thing to do.

You can't blame the US for it being criminalized though. That's the EU. You should leave it.

While the EU directive is shitty, it was fortunately significantly watered down, which pissed the RIAA and MPA type organisations off. In any case, Sweden's change of law was out of sync with the directive - it had been set in motion due to threats of WTO sanctions by the US; a similar sort of WTO sanctions they threatened to resort to in the case of the Pirate Bay, putting Sweden on a "watch list," moving towards trade embargoes, "re-evaluating" certain deals... Do not underestimate the zeal with which the US bullies smaller nations, and the effects it can have. No wonder no one likes them...

Well, my take on this is that piracy is karma's punishment for not doing anything worthwhile for humanity. If you invent the cure for cancer or find a way to eliminate pollution, you deserve to get paid. If you're just a singer or actor, just be grateful for the millions you do make. We have to put up with your celebrity drama shit too.

While the EU directive is shitty, it was fortunately significantly watered down, which pissed the RIAA and MPA type organisations off. In any case, Sweden's change of law was out of sync with the directive - it had been set in motion due to threats of WTO sanctions by the US; a similar sort of WTO sanctions they threatened to resort to in the case of the Pirate Bay, putting Sweden on a "watch list," moving towards trade embargoes, "re-evaluating" certain deals... Do not underestimate the zeal with which the US bullies smaller nations, and the effects it can have. No wonder no one likes them...

It was still criminalized because of the EU. That bit really has nothing to do with the US. European countries signed the treaties, it a matter of international law.

I said the US government's actions were shitty. But given that only national governments can bring disputes - which is what I assume you are referring to with the watch lists etc. - then I don't see what else you expect. Again it is a matter of international law. It goes the other way too, like that silly banana dispute a few years back.

And if in fact the US actions were unwarranted then any threat of trade embargo would be empty, because you can't do that. That also is against international law.

Actually, the sad part of all this is not that a few people can't download music but people in the developing world can't get the drugs they need.

And if in fact the US actions were unwarranted then any threat of trade embargo would be empty, because you can't do that. That also is against international law.
US doesn't give a shit about international law. If they did, there wouldn't be a tarrif on Canadian softwood lumber. The US is going to act however it thinks will be the most benificial to itself.

US doesn't give a shit about international law. If they did, there wouldn't be a tarrif on Canadian softwood lumber. The US is going to act however it thinks will be the most benificial to itself.

There isn't a tarrif. Not anymore. The courts have a different view to the Bush administration.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060721/to380.html?.v=1

There isn't a tarrif. Not anymore. The courts have a different view to the Bush administration.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060721/to380.html?.v=1
Hmm. First I've heard of that.

Hmm. First I've heard of that.

Eh. I think the overall tarrif was renegociated last year. The WTO ruled against canada about the subsidies, but there was a question about NAFTA and whether or not the tarrif should be returned.

Apparently the US courts ruled in Canada's favor about returning the tarrif.

Music piracy on the internet is the greatest achievement of this century.
This is exactly how the internet technology should be used.
If you can get something for nothing, then go for it! :D

So if this Darknet thingy prevents anyone from tracing you, it is a godsend.
Presonally I don't download much pirated music, 'cause I'm stuck with dialup. :(
It is too damn slow to get a whole bunch of goodies quickly.

Privacy should be held sacrosanct, and this technology sounds great. :)