NationStates Jolt Archive

I am, I am so sick of hearing about this EVERY YEAR! Now its just an excuse to increase patriotism. Come on, EVERY YEAR people what were YOU doing and where were YOU! Stop asking this every year!

Not really sick at all, from my point of view, it was a pivotal event in my life. It changed the world in which I live. It reminded us of how horrible people could be, and how good and decent they could be as well.

I am, I am so sick of hearing about this EVERY YEAR! Now its just an excuse to increase patriotism. Come on, EVERY YEAR people what were YOU doing anf where were YOU! Stop asking this every year!
911 was the defining moment of our generation. No, I'm not sick of hearing about it.

I got sick of it after the first week then it just got sad

then again I'm not American so this didn’t affect me much

911 was the defining moment of our generation. No, I'm not sick of hearing about it.I agree.

Every year? More like every day one talks with someone from the US.

They are a bit obsessed, but then again they hang on to Elvis and JFK and their "founding fathers" and so on as well, so maybe inability/reluctance to move on is a cultural phenom...

I am, I am so sick of hearing about this EVERY YEAR! Now its just an excuse to increase patriotism. Come on, EVERY YEAR people what were YOU doing anf where were YOU! Stop asking this every year!
Wow, I feel inclined to spend the next two or three weeks discussing 9/11 for some strange reason.

I got sick of it after the first week then it just got sad

then again I'm not American so this didn’t affect me much
Do you get tired of hearing about the London bombings?

Wow, I feel inclined to spend the next two or three weeks discussing 9/11 for some strange reason.
:D

Wow, I feel inclined to spend the next two or three weeks discussing 9/11 for some strange reason.



:mad:

Do you get tired of hearing about the London bombings?

yes very quickly then again that was before a school holiday and were British *drinks the odd drug called tea*

Do you get tired of hearing about the London bombings?

Actually, one rarely hears of those. It's incomparable to the "9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11!!!" coming from the US... I mean, it's 11/9 for bitching out loud.

Every year? More like every day one talks with someone from the US.

They are a bit obsessed, but then again they hang on to Elvis and JFK and their "founding fathers" and so on as well, so maybe inability/reluctance to move on is a cultural phenom...
We like our history over here. We don't have quite so many years of it as everyone else, but we like to make the most of what we have, and we tend to focus on the primary events.

No I'm not, it was an important event in my life.

We like our history over here. We don't have quite so many years of it as everyone else, but we like to make the most of what we have, and we tend to focus on the primary events.

There's liking it, and then there is necrophiling it...

Actually, one rarely hears of those. It's incomparable to the "9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11!!!" coming from the US... I mean, it's 11/9 for bitching out loud.
In America we arrange our dates a little bit differently, so it is 911.

On 911, way more people died than the London bombings, and more importantly, it shattered the myth that America is invincible.

Yes, for two reasons.

Firstly, its usual context is enthusiasm for jingoistic warmongering and mindlessness.

Secondly, the obsession about it tends to reflect a self-centered, hypernationalist view of the world that assigns attacks against the US and US citizens disproportionate status as atrocities in comparison to comparable events around the world.

In America we arrange our dates a little bit differently, so it is 911.

I thought that was the emergency number.

On 911, way more people died than the London bombings, and more importantly, it shattered the myth that America is invincible.

On 9/11 more children starved to death than the people who died in those towers. Perspective - it's a rare commodity these days.

I thought that was the emergency number.

It is. Much fuss was made over the coincidence.

I thought that was the emergency number.



On 9/11 more children starved to death than the people who died in those towers. Perspective - it's a rare commodity these days.
It is.

And that is America's fault how?

On 911, way more people died than the London bombings, and more importantly, it shattered the myth that America is invincible.

everything seems to shatter that myth: Korea, Vietnam, pearl harbour, F-22's and so on

the London bombings were very close actually I was a day off being on the tube for a school trip and I don’t think death toll really matters in such things

911 was the defining moment of our generation. No, I'm not sick of hearing about it.
A disaster is the "defining moment" in your generation? How sad is that?

It is. Much fuss was made over the coincidence.

Somehow I don't think that was a coincidence... Or maybe it is...??? :eek:

everything seems to shatter that myth: Korea, Vietnam, pearl harbour, F-22's and so on

the London bombings were very close actually I was a day off being on the tube for a school trip and I don’t think death toll really matters in such things
None of those happened on mainland America. You can lose every foreign war, but it doesn't matter if you're not attacked in your own country.
A disaster is the "defining moment" in your generation? How sad is that?
Why are you blaming me? Blame the terrorists.

And that is America's fault how?

No, that's the Western world's fault (that includes Europe and North America), but you should know how based in that history you as a US citizen should apparently love. Nevertheless, blame was not the issue - perspective was. If you're going to try to claim more deserved ruminant iteration ad nauseum due to amount of deaths, you should know that on a larger scale, the deaths in those towers were minor.

And that is America's fault how?

um...do you really need to know...

1) American debt payments (not as guilty as some of us but stil...)

2) aid money being pumped into guns (the cold war was over and 9/11 hadn't happened!)

3) lack of American interest in anything African

It is.

And that is America's fault how?
Greedy capitalist scum. Sitting there eating your branded food while all those children are starving to death. :rolleyes:

It is.

And that is America's fault how?

Where on earth did you get some sort of accusation out of what he said?

Persecution complex, table for one?

No, that's the Western world's fault (that includes Europe and North America), but you should know how based in that history you as a US citizen should apparently love. Nevertheless, blame was not the issue - perspective was. If you're going to try to claim more deserved ruminant iteration ad nauseum due to amount of deaths, you should know that on a larger scale, the deaths in those towers were minor.
The problem is that you can't fix starvation by throwing money at those people. It's much more effective to help them build up a self-sustaining infrastructure, which is really hard to do if the region isn't stable (Iraq).

911 was the wake up call. It illustrated that there are people who would love nothing more than to destroy America completely, or to convert it to Islam.

Not sick enough to make a thread on NSG and whine about hearing about it while making others read about it. That's plain stoo... MONKEYS!
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/Monkeys.jpg

Where on earth did you get some sort of accusation out of what he said?

Persecution complex, table for one?
I was offended because he was trying to make 911 seem irrelevant just because there are some starving orphans out in the middle of nowhere.

911 was the defining moment of our generation. No, I'm not sick of hearing about it.Pffff, if that was the defining moment of our generation, our generation is in for a boring life. Seriously, a couple of guys flew some planes into the WTC. A couple of thousand people carked it. Theres indications that the whole thing could have been a sham anyway. I'd say Sep 11th would take the cup as the defining terrorist attack/conspiracy theory so far, but will easily be topped when AQ gets a nuke (from the CIA).

Seriously, the asian Tsunami in 2004 killed 230,000 people. Even Americans should agree that an american life is not worth more than one hundred foriegn lives (I would hope). Billions of dollars worth of damage was incurred. All of the worlds people came together to support Indonesia, and raised billions of dollars in releif money. Way bigger than a couple of thousand people dying in a suspiciously well executed terrorist attack.

None of those happened on mainland America. You can lose every foreign war, but it doesn't matter if you're not attacked in your own country.
Do the death of Americans not matter if they don't happen within the country?
Why are you blaming me? Blame the terrorists.
Blame yourself. No one forces you to hold onto painful memories or to relive frightening experiences. If you are letting one terrorist attack define your life, maybe you should search for some happier memory to redefine yourself with.

I was offended because he was trying to make 911 seem irrelevant just because there are some starving orphans out in the middle of nowhere.
You were the one that claimed 9/11 was more important than the London bombings because more lives were claimed. He simply followed the formula you used and one-upped the number dead in the attacks using the number dead from starvation.

I was offended because he was trying to make 911 seem irrelevant just because there are some starving orphans out in the middle of nowhere.
Objectively speaking, it is irrelevant. The world has faced, is facing, and will face far greater problems than the death of a couple of thousand rich people in a rich country which usually causes (rather than suffers) this kind of tragedy. It was a flash in the pan, an on the grand scheme, USA has had it good.

Hah. I only just realised that the reason for all these 11/9 threads popping up is because we're approaching September. Again. Y'know, we're going to hit September next year too. Again. And the year after that too, and so on, into infinity.

Je parlerai en français parce que je sais qu'il irrite les patriotes américains idiots. Ils sont morts, ils ont été enterrés, regardez le futur.

I was offended because he was trying to make 911 seem irrelevant just because there are some starving orphans out in the middle of nowhere.

I wonder how many starving people are offended by calling there country the middle of nowhere

and in the big picture 9/11 is pretty small the world hasn’t really changed since 2001 its just now everyone hates America more

Pffff, if that was the defining moment of our generation, our generation is in for a boring life. Seriously, a couple of guys flew some planes into the WTC. A couple of thousand people carked it. Theres indications that the whole thing could have been a sham anyway. I'd say Sep 11th would take the cup as the defining terrorist attack/conspiracy theory so far, but will easily be topped when AQ gets a nuke (from the CIA).

Seriously, the asian Tsunami in 2004 killed 230,000 people. Even Americans should agree that an american life is not worth more than one hundred foriegn lives (I would hope). Billions of dollars worth of damage was incurred. All of the worlds people came together to support Indonesia, and raised billions of dollars in releif money. Way bigger than a couple of thousand people dying in a suspiciously well executed terrorist attack.
The entire way the American government conducts its foreign policy was changed because of 911. You would probably have to be American to understand the feeling of disgust, fear, and horror as you watch those two planes hit the Towers, and see the people running through the streets of New York. It was like you were in those buildings, but you were watching it happen to you from the outside. That's how it felt to me. Every time I see those towers I get a feeling of revulsion. Every single time.

The tsunami was terrible, but the only way it affected Americans was those who chipped in 20 bucks.

I was offended because he was trying to make 911 seem irrelevant just because there are some starving orphans out in the middle of nowhere.

That still doesn't make your claim that he was blaming America for it make any sense.

The problem is that you can't fix starvation by throwing money at those people. It's much more effective to help them build up a self-sustaining infrastructure, which is really hard to do if the region isn't stable (Iraq).

Why are you discussing this? The failures and sins of the West was not my point.

911 was the wake up call. It illustrated that there are people who would love nothing more than to destroy America completely, or to convert it to Islam.

It didn't wake up many people elsewhere, only in the US. Elsewhere, we've had terrorists for centuries... heck, the US "founding fathers" were. Anyhow, the event itself is over-exposed, and people in the US need to get over it.

A disaster is the "defining moment" in your generation? How sad is that?That's actually an interesting (and bless the various gods, we need one) question with respect to the WTC bombings.

I never really considered that other cultures/countries might not define themselves by the crises they face and overcome. Whether you're talking locally ("that twister of '25 wiped us off the map, but here we are again, Bertha") or nationally (Pearl Harbor, the Civil War, WWII, WTC, Valley Forge, Katrina, The Depression), "disasters" are the framework of the U.S. national character. And that's true whether we respond well (the Murrah bombing) or poorly (Katrina).

I'm curious if that's not really the case elsewhere.


As for the OP... 9/11 has been used from its inception to whip up blind patriotism. It's not that I'm sick of hearing about it--I'm just sick of it being bastardized.

The psychological shock to Americans from the September 11 Attacks is also very notable. For the previous 196 years, there had been no major foreign attacks on the United States 'homeland'. The rest of the world was destroyed two times in the past century, but the US Homeland remained inviolate. We won the fight against communism without firing a shot, for christsakes, and there was no one left who stood even the slightest chance of touching us, or so we thought. It changed how we view the world.

I can't say that I am sick of hearing it but I'm not fan of Hollywood trying to capitalize on the biggest national tragedy already. I am thoroughly sick of the nonsensical conspiracy theorists though.

Je parlerai en français parce que je sais qu'il irrite les patriotes américains idiots. Ils sont morts, ils ont été enterrés, regardez le futur.

oui oui en effet je ne vois pas pourquoi qu'ils ne peuvent pas laisser vont surtout après 5 années

don't blame me I learnt German in school

The psychological shock to Americans from the September 11 Attacks is also very notable. For the previous 196 years, there had been no major foreign attacks on the United States 'homeland'.

What was that about loving history?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812

You were the one that claimed 9/11 was more important than the London bombings because more lives were claimed. He simply followed the formula you used and one-upped the number dead in the attacks using the number dead from starvation.
The starving people are all over the world, in every nation. All these nations deal with it their own ways, or they don't deal with it.

Just look at how the world has changed since 911. America has become more aggressive, the mid east is changing, for better or for worse, and most developed nations are feeling the repurcussions. The fact that America projects a much larger amount of influence than the Congo goes to show that 911 affected not only America, but the world more than the starving people.

Je parlerai en français parce que je sais qu'il irrite les patriotes américains idiots. Ils sont morts, ils ont été enterrés, regardez le futur.

Je serais vous, je ne le ferais pas. Les moderateurs n'aiment pas qu'on fasse ainsi...

It didn't wake up many people elsewhere, only in the US. Elsewhere, we've had terrorists for centuries... heck, the US "founding fathers" were. Anyhow, the event itself is over-exposed, and people in the US need to get over it.
Then perhaps you need to wake up:rolleyes:

It didn't wake up many people elsewhere, only in the US. Elsewhere, we've had terrorists for centuries... heck, the US "founding fathers" were. Anyhow, the event itself is over-exposed, and people in the US need to get over it.
I believe the consensus that our forum came to was that the founding fathers, on the basis of their tactics and methodology, were not terrorists. They did not target British Civilians. The primary founding fathers stuck with classical military strategy and tactics, or were legislators/statesmen. Bring up the Boston Tea party, and I'll bring up the fact that they were drunk as piss. Furthermore, the US was operating as an Independent Country, not as a non-state actor.

Meh, it's been only 5 years, we're in for a lot more. People still conmemorate El Alamo, for crying out loud, or the atomic bomb, and all sorts of crap.

So, better get used to it.

The entire way the American government conducts its foreign policy was changed because of 911. You would probably have to be American to understand the feeling of disgust, fear, and horror as you watch those two planes hit the Towers, and see the people running through the streets of New York. It was like you were in those buildings, but you were watching it happen to you from the outside. That's how it felt to me. Every time I see those towers I get a feeling of revulsion. Every single time.

The tsunami was terrible, but the only way it affected Americans was those who chipped in 20 bucks.
So it is hardly the defining moment of our generation if only Americans can relate to it in such an intimate way. There are countries where if a building is blown up by terrorists and a few thousand people die, everyone sighs and gets on with life. What you're upset with is the contrast between what you have, and what you deserve.

What was that about loving history?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812

Ouch. Touché! :)

What was that about loving history?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812
Eeep...

History yes, math no.

I meant 186 years, I just didn't do my subtraction right.

Then perhaps you need to wake up:rolleyes:

Wake up to what? Half a decade's bellyaching?

2001-1815 = 196, right?

186. 2001-1805 = 196.

Your history isn't flawed, I was in error. Just your math.

For all of you people that say 9/11 is stupid, we need to get over it, and that who cares if a couple thousand "rich and snobby americans" died. Did you ever stop to think about the people's family's that had to suffer seeing that event happen?

Just look at how the world has changed since 911. America has become more aggressive, the mid east is changing, for better or for worse, and most developed nations are feeling the repurcussions. The fact that America projects a much larger amount of influence than the Congo goes to show that 911 affected not only America, but the world more than the starving people.

America has always been aggressive and nothing has changed in the middle east other than Afghans having the shit shot out of them before being left to the same drug lords

Whereas Starving people is a terrible sore on the world I don’t think you can deny it is depressing to see on T.V (maybe increasing depression and depression related suicides…maybe) so this affects the whole world even those crazy Mammoth hunters in Siberia

The starving people are all over the world, in every nation. All these nations deal with it their own ways, or they don't deal with it.

Just look at how the world has changed since 911. America has become more aggressive, the mid east is changing, for better or for worse, and most developed nations are feeling the repurcussions. The fact that America projects a much larger amount of influence than the Congo goes to show that 911 affected not only America, but the world more than the starving people.
But, you didn't claim that the influence of 9/11 was what made it more important than the London bombings. You claimed body count, and so your response was met in kind.

186. 2001-1805 = 196.

Your history isn't flawed, I was in error. Just your math.
I noticed that, just in time for Jolt to freeze up.

In America we arrange our dates a little bit differently, so it is 911.

On 911, way more people died than the London bombings, and more importantly, it shattered the myth that America is invincible.
Hey, toaster strudel:

Most everyone I know had already known America wasn't invincible for our entire lives. A lil' thing called mutually-assured destruction? The Cold War? Doesn't ring any bells?

No-one I knew while growing up had any confidence that we would not die in a nuclear war, at any time.America, invincible?

Who sold you on that horseshit?

Je serais vous, je ne le ferais pas. Les moderateurs n'aiment pas qu'on fasse ainsi...
I know this, but fancied practising some French.

I am not tired of hearing about it, nor does it bother me for them to do a big thing every year. (of course I am probably the only person in OK that doesn't mind the 168 seconds of silence every April 19th either.)

The entire way the American government conducts its foreign policy was changed because of 911. You would probably have to be American to understand the feeling of disgust, fear, and horror as you watch those two planes hit the Towers, and see the people running through the streets of New York. It was like you were in those buildings, but you were watching it happen to you from the outside. That's how it felt to me. Every time I see those towers I get a feeling of revulsion. Every single time.
"Shock and awe", baby! "Shock and awe". At least that's what your military calls it. Impressive when it works, ain't it?
For all of you people that say 9/11 is stupid, we need to get over it, and that who cares if a couple thousand "rich and snobby americans" died. Did you ever stop to think about the people's family's that had to suffer seeing that event happen?
I believe the correct term to use is "collateral damage"? No?

For all of you people that say 9/11 is stupid, we need to get over it, and that who cares if a couple thousand "rich and snobby americans" died. Did you ever stop to think about the people's family's that had to suffer seeing that event happen? Sure I did. It must have sucked immensely. That being said, it was on the lighter side of suckiness compared to everything else in the world. Imagine the same family if similar tragedies had occured the previous three consecutive months, and they had no food.

"Shock and awe", baby! "Shock and awe". At least that's what your military calls it. Impressive when it works, ain't it?

I believe the correct term to use is "collateral damage"? No?
Precisely. Terrorism is just the new 'risqe' war tactic. Just like Camoflage, artillery, chemical warfare, nukes, guerilla tactics, and espionage before it, terrorism will at first be decried, then quietly adopted. Some would argue it already has been.

I'm merely pointing out that some events resemble others rather closely - while having little in common comparing goals and means, when you try to take in the broader picture, they really aren't that different all of the sudden.

People not involved die - "simple" as that. :(

Wow. I didn't expect this many replies. http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/cheerleader.gif

http://www.smileyhut.com/weapons/dropcheer.gif

I'm sorry, but that just sparked this reaction :D:p;)

http://www.smileyhut.com/weapons/dropcheer.gif

I'm sorry, but that just sparked this reaction :D:p;)



Funny reaction.

No.

Pearl Harbor Day (December 7, 1941) is remembered to this day. Another movie was made about just a few years ago.

Whether it proves to be insignificant in scope and casualties compared to what may be coming is beside the point. 9/11 woke America up, both left and right, to the fact that there were terrorist groups bent on the destruction of the free world, whose symbolic center, I would argue, is in New York City - home of the UN, and largest commercial capital in the Western world.

That terrorists have been bent on our destruction for many years does not matter, as no foreign-led terrorist attack had been successful on American soil on such a scale.

For good or ill, its affect upon the American psyche is undeniable. Whether its affect on the rest of the world is the same does not matter to me. They don't live in America. As it would not matter to Bali what the rest of the world thought about the terrorist attack it weathered - just that they have to deal with the physical, economic, and psychological impact of that attack, just as America is dealing with those same issues regarding 9/11.

It does seem that some americans focus A LOT on this particular disaster. Fair enough, it is a major event in recent history. But there has been too much hype about 9/11, it's continually being discussed. Sure it was shocking at the time (still is a little) but it's history now, something that can't be changed. It amazes me that some americans still feel so horrified by this event, and yet these same people have said they don't care about poverty and children dying of starvation. That doesn't affect them, it's in another part of the world. There has been so much media hype about 9/11, it's like many people have been brainwashed into believing it is the worse thing ever to happen. It's not.

911 was the defining moment of our generation. No, I'm not sick of hearing about it.
The defining moment of our generation has yet to occur.

As for hearing about 9/11 too much, it's only irritating in certain contexts.
The episode of Penn and Teller's Bullshit about the utter incompetence of rebuilding the World Trade Center and creating a proper memorial, not irritating and somewhat touching.
Whenever a politician says anything remotely related to it, irritating.

I'm not sick of hearing about the TRUTH about it. I'm however, sick of the smokescreen cover story that has been put up about it!

Precisely. Terrorism is just the new 'risqe' war tactic. Just like Camoflage, artillery, chemical warfare, nukes, guerilla tactics, and espionage before it, terrorism will at first be decried, then quietly adopted. Some would argue it already has been.

Yeah, it seems that the era of the large scale war machine is going away. It's really not that much different than the American Revolutionary War when the British were crying foul just because the Americans wouldn't just line up in rank and file on the battlefield and fight like normal people.

Got tired of hearing about it a few years ago.

Greedy capitalist scum. Sitting there eating your branded food while all those children are starving to death. :rolleyes:

This reminds me of a story. I'm sure everyone has heard it.

There was this old lady that everyday she would go to the park to feed the birds. One day a man passed by and gave a dirty look to her saying, "While you are feeding perfectly good bread to the birds, people are starving in Africa!" The lady looked up stared at him and said, "Mister I can't throw that far."

I will discuss 9/11 today and every day in which it is brought up in conversation, fully analyzing the reasons, methods, and results to the best of my ability, and also the various ways in which the event could have been prevented, or the possible prevention of future attacks based on what has been learned.

Or, we could simply "forget about it"...and wait until it happens again in this city or that. :rolleyes:

If discussing 9/11 helps in even the slightest way to prevent such an event from occuring in the future, regardless of when or where the attack might occur, then I will most certainly discuss it.

I’m getting rather annoyed by hearing about 9/11 time and again. In the context of the entire world, it’s really just a minor thing. Yes, I realise that to those who lost friends / family it’s not a trivial thing. But do I really need to hear about it constantly?

And even worse, it’s becoming an excuse. Because of 9/11, America is somehow, as if by magic, allowed to do whatever it wants. By all means, remember the victims as you remember the victims of other wars / attacks / disasters. But please, do not use it as an excuse to force yourself upon the world…

From other people? NO! Remembering how 3000+ innocents were murdered should never get old....

From the psychotic emotion-obsessed media? YES!

Yeah, it seems that the era of the large scale war machine is going away. It's really not that much different than the American Revolutionary War when the British were crying foul just because the Americans wouldn't just line up in rank and file on the battlefield and fight like normal people.
Or the vietnam war because the Viet Cong wouldn't come out and fight at all. They wouldn't even wear uniforms. Instead they would sneak around slitting soldiers throats and blowing shit up at night. Now every army has a 'black ops' group which specialises in what is essentially guerilla warfare. Now we have guerillas who kill civilians in order to scare the people in charge of the soldiers and make them leave. Soon everyone will be doing it. Israel already is.

Remember the Alamo

Remember Pearl Harbor

Remember 9/11

Remember how Europe and American liberals stabbed America in the back

:upyours:

I hadn't heard about it until you brought it up now...
nice...

Or the vietnam war because the Viet Cong wouldn't come out and fight at all. They wouldn't even wear uniforms. Instead they would sneak around slitting soldiers throats and blowing shit up at night. Now every army has a 'black ops' group which specialises in what is essentially guerilla warfare. Now we have guerillas who kill civilians in order to scare the people in charge of the soldiers and make them leave. Soon everyone will be doing it. Israel already is.

"non conventional" war has always been around, and it always will. Becuase there is no such thing as Conventional and Non-conventional. It is war. War is atrochious and no matter war people die who don't need too. Guerrillas or Regulars. None is better than the other. A Guerrilla is same as a Regular but doenst have the same technology or firepower so instead they use theyre heads to counter that. By not standing in the open and hitting the rear. War is War, and "one should never embark on it unless it is essential to the states survival" -Sun Tzu.

"non conventional" war has always been around, and it always will. Becuase there is no such thing as Conventional and Non-conventional. It is war. War is atrochious and no matter war people die who don't need too. Guerrillas or Regulars. None is better than the other. A Guerrilla is same as a Regular but doenst have the same technology or firepower so instead they use theyre heads to counter that. By not standing in the open and hitting the rear. War is War, and "one should never embark on it unless it is essential to the states survival" -Sun Tzu.
Precisely. War is about doing terrible shit. When somebody thinks of a way to do the terrible shit in a more effective, efficient, unexpected, unique, or terrible way, everyone gets upset, because it happened to them, then they go along and start doing it themselves. There are no standards in war, only limitations.

I respond in the "what were you doing" threads because I, personally, don't talk about it much at any other times, so I indulge. But the endless drumbeat of media commentary drives me bananas. So overall, yeah, I'm sick of it.

But then, by the time the media gets through with ANY story, I've had well nigh enough of it. They harp on every event, even what a drunken Mel Gibson said! If they can get weeks of stories out of Gibson's irrelevant-to-most-people yammering, it's no wonder that they're getting years and years out of a REAL story!

As for why non-media people keep talking about it...people like to talk about what's on the TV or things related to what's on it. And, there's the Anniversary Effect kicking in at this time of year. So, combine the Effect with the recently reported terrorist plots, and you get threads about 9/11.

Will the TV shut up about it? Hell no. Many responses in this thread show that there is still Demand. The supply-side will oblige.

Precisely. War is about doing terrible shit. When somebody thinks of a way to do the terrible shit in a more effective, efficient, unexpected, unique, or terrible way, everyone gets upset, because it happened to them, then they go along and start doing it themselves. There are no standards in war, only limitations.

Indeed, I was agreeing with you. I wonder how long it will be before the US/ 'civilized' western nations have their own terrorists special units. If they dont already...

But yeah it is sickening to hear about it only becuase of the media. For two years afterwards every 3 word out of a news reporters mouth was "9/11" and every story had something to do with it or found a connection to it. Esspecaily how if you smoked pot you were in bed with Osama's moma. I hated those esspecaily the most. If the media didnt freakin drape every story to a discusting level people would probably think differently.

I don't understand the deep, soul-wrenching trauma that many Americans seem to have suffered during 9/11. I know that it was a tragedy, but compared to the tragedies that happen in the world as a whole every year, it was small fish.

Then again, I was 12 at the time it happened, so I really don't have very good perspective. Maybe it would have been worse if I were older.

Well, you don't really hear that much about it here, thankfully. Nothing is worse than politically exploiting a political act such as those attacks by constantly bringing them up. They lose relevance very soon, and people will simply tire of hearing about them again and again and again... in the long run, the result is simple indifference or even an opposed reaction rather than sincere discussion.

What do you expect? It's not like it is unusual that it is talked about so often.

I don't understand the deep, soul-wrenching trauma that many Americans seem to have suffered during 9/11. I know that it was a tragedy, but compared to the tragedies that happen in the world as a whole every year, it was small fish.

Then again, I was 12 at the time it happened, so I really don't have very good perspective. Maybe it would have been worse if I were older.

I think it was the first time in a very long time that Americans had to wake up to the reality of warfare.
It's my impression that to most Americans, war and attacks of that category were something that happened far away, something that you sent soldiers to, something you might see on the evening news in nicely presented pictures, but definitely nothing that might actually happen inside the USA.
It was a shock waking up to it.

I am, I am so sick of hearing about this EVERY YEAR! Now its just an excuse to increase patriotism. Come on, EVERY YEAR people what were YOU doing and where were YOU! Stop asking this every year!


I am sick of it being used as a political tool by the Bush Administration. Of course its terrible that all those people died, I'm not condoning it, but in the grand scheme of things many other countries have suffered worse, granted it many not have been in one attack but look at Northern Ireland, Palestine, Israel, victims of earth quakes, the tsunami etc and ya don't see those governments releasing footage of yet another angle the poor people who jumped from the building fell. Its sick to be quite frank.

I was offended because he was trying to make 911 seem irrelevant just because there are some starving orphans out in the middle of nowhere.
:D
Those damn starving orphans...

Je parlerai en français parce que je sais qu'il irrite les patriotes américains idiots. Ils sont morts, ils ont été enterrés, regardez le futur.
"I will speak in French because I know that it irritates the idiotic American patriots. They died, they were buried, look at the future."

We're not all idiotic patriots.

However, I do agree with you.

oui oui en effet je ne vois pas pourquoi qu'ils ne peuvent pas laisser vont surtout après 5 années

don't blame me I learnt German in school

"yes yes indeed I do not see why that they cannot 'leave go' especially after 5 years"

Did you learn it just as poorly?

Je serais vous, je ne le ferais pas. Les moderateurs n'aiment pas qu'on fasse ainsi...

"If I were you, I wouldn't -- the Mods would frown on it..." (not sure about that last part).

Mais vous n'êtes pas lui...

"But you're not him..."

Remember the Alamo

Remember Pearl Harbor

Remember 9/11

Remember how Europe and American liberals stabbed America in the back

:upyours:
Here's a bottle of WTF?, drink up.

No forgetting, and no letting go, as long as there is one jihadist alive on the planet.

ceterum censeo...

I'll admit that there was little direct effect upon me other than a kind of ghoulish curiosity about how the mechanics of the event played out. I didn't know anyone in New York at all, let alone NYC. Now, had my brother from eastern Connecticut been visiting the City that day and was somehow involved, I think I'd have a more visceral reaction.

But I live near Seattle in the summer, and Bismarck during the academic year. Hard to get terribly upset. 2800 people didn't deserve to die for US foreign policy blowback, but when you step all over the world, heedless of who or what you step on, you reap what you sow.

Disasters have that kind of echoic effect on a large segment of humanity. Why on Earth would another film about the Titanic have done so well a few years back, for example?

I'll agree with Isiseye. Personally, I think it does suit some political purpose and I do sympathise with the American horror at such an event.

However, as Isiseye suggested at, if you look elsewhere over the globe, we should know that humans are capable of doing far better (and far worse can happen). Essentially, I'm just sick of the media (here in Australia) constantly showing it as if it were the worst thing that ever happened.

I have nothing against the event as being of great sorrowful significance to the American people, its just that pissing media again and again, grinding out that same footage year after year!

the trick is you have to somehoe convince the people who talk about it all the time that they are doing what the terrorist want. and tell them that if they really want to get back at the terrorist they need to shut up.

I voted for "Meh, a little sick".. I just find it annoying.

Didn't a cesna crash into a builing in Germany the day after?

Anyways
On September 6th or 7th there was a Rugby game Wellington Lions vs someone.

Dion Waller and Jason Spice, both Lions, had an on-field 'tussle', the ref had to step in well the paper on the 11th was Spice in Wallers arms showing how they had made up, September the 11th was actually the 12th here and the afternoon paper might have had the planes hitting the towers on it definalty on the 13th.

The place i work uses paper as packaging, i saw those papers 3 years after the fact, i almost kept them but didn't.

Funny stuff

911 was the defining moment of our generation. No, I'm not sick of hearing about it.

It only is because you keep saying it is, and are obsessed with having a "defining moment". 9/11 should not merit any more than a fraction of a footnote in future history textbooks, but because of all of the media hype and obsession in your backwards country, you've turned it into something far bigger than it really was or ever had to be, and in doing so, accomplished more than the terrorists themselves ever dreamed of being able to do.

Didn't a cesna crash into a builing in Germany the day after?



i remember some kid taking lessons for a pilots license or something crashed a small cesna like plane into a bank office in florida. left a note saying how he thought bin laden was a hero or something along those lines

I can't believe only four people have voted monkeys :(

i'm so tired of it. and i hate bush for using it to get votes. he should be ashamed of himself.

Didn't a cesna crash into a builing in Germany the day after?



I think that was in Milan, actually. A small passenger plane, if I remember correctly.

ha ha. america had oppression for an afternoon and they decide to go out to destroy a friendly race of people.

why is 9/11 an excuse for iraq?

osama didnt even like saddam.

you know what would be a good to catch him? not letting his relitives leave the country.

oh funny point someone made earlier. its 11th of 9 not 9/11. when recording time it goes from small to big. time,date,month,year.

I am, I am so sick of hearing about this EVERY YEAR! Now its just an excuse to increase patriotism. Come on, EVERY YEAR people what were YOU doing and where were YOU! Stop asking this every year!



I guess you had to be there .

I guess you had to be there .

I was there and I am pretty sick of hearing about it.

Yes, for two reasons.

Firstly, its usual context is enthusiasm for jingoistic warmongering and mindlessness.

Secondly, the obsession about it tends to reflect a self-centered, hypernationalist view of the world that assigns attacks against the US and US citizens disproportionate status as atrocities in comparison to comparable events around the world.

*nods*

YES! Very sick about hearing it like it's the worse thing to ever happen! Please! It's not even close to other horrid things that have happened in the world.. Agreed, it was a horrible day... but hell.. why does it always only seem like an atrocity if it happens to us in the west? We so need to get over ourselves! Seriously!

YES! Very sick about hearing it like it's the worse thing to ever happen! Please! It's not even close to other horrid things that have happened in the world.. Agreed, it was a horrible day... but hell.. why does it always only seem like an atrocity if it happens to us in the west? We so need to get over ourselves! Seriously!

Go tell that to the survivors at Hiroshima who ring the bell every year.

Go tell that to the survivors of Auschwitz, etc., who say we must never forget.

Only the West, eh?

Go tell that to the survivors at Hiroshima who ring the bell every year.

Go tell that to the survivors of Auschwitz, etc., who say we must never forget.

Only the West, eh?

There's a middle ground between "not forgetting" and "being forcefully reminded every couple of days because someone is trying to cash in your presumed partiotism"....

I'm also sick of hearing people gripe about hearing it!

I'm not sick of hearing about it. It affected my family and people I know, some very directly.

Are you sick of hearing about the holocaust ?

I'm not sick of hearing about it. It affected my family and people I know, some very directly.

Are you sick of hearing about the holocaust ?
Honestly, yeah, a little.

I'm not sick of hearing about it. It affected my family and people I know, some very directly.

Are you sick of hearing about the holocaust ?

Good point. I'm not, but I take a rather personal interest in the history of my home country. I do know a good number of people who are sick of hearing about it, though, and they tend to react with actual contempt for the whole part of history for the simple reason that they are sick of it.
To some degree I can even understand that reaction, I'm afraid to say.

I'm not sick of hearing about it. It affected my family and people I know, some very directly.

Are you sick of hearing about the holocaust ?
To be honest yeah

Not because their suffering was trivial but because unless there is some new information hearing the same thing over and over gets dull

To be honest yeah

Not because their suffering was trivial but because unless there is some new information hearing the same thing over and over gets dull

That's exactly the problem that I see.... something that should never, ever get dull, something that should produce an emotion whenever mentioned, something that should force people into thought is being dulled by constant repetition and merciless marketing. It's even scarier than the thing itself.

That's exactly the problem that I see.... something that should never, ever get dull, something that should produce an emotion whenever mentioned, something that should force people into thought is being dulled by constant repetition and merciless marketing. It's even scarier than the thing itself.
Just goes to show that humans can get used to anything

Oh yes.

"Hmm this war is getting unpopular again - best throw in September 11th, or the London bombings into a few choice sentences, say that some plot or another has been foiled, convince people that a war on 'terror' can be won and there we go... now people are angry at the Middle East".

It's like 2 Minute's Hate or something...

Go tell that to the survivors at Hiroshima who ring the bell every year.
Yeah, just remember that the US has yet to apologise for that.

It really should have.

Oh yes.

"Hmm this war is getting unpopular again - best throw in September 11th, or the London bombings into a few choice sentences, say that some plot or another has been foiled, convince people that a war on 'terror' can be won and there we go... now people are angry at the Middle East".

It's like 2 Minute's Hate or something...
It was called "waving the bloody shirt" in the Civil War. You can usually get quite a supportive emotional reaction when you claim to be avenging a violent wrong. The key is to keep the wrong fresh in the minds of the people you want to react emotionally.

Are you sick of hearing about the holocaust ?

The Holocaust ? Oh yes, more than sick of hearing about that...

I'd actually rather hear about 9/11! At least people were affected who are still alive! That is not to say that there are no Holocaust folks still around.. but it becomes like slavery... hardly anyone alive to speak of... it was over 60 years ago.. forgive! Germany is our friend now. Japan is our friend now.. Hell, Vietnam is now our friends.

You want horror and shock from me? Let's talk Darfur, Lebanon, and the current atrocities unjustly taking place NOW! Bottom Line!

Yeah, just remember that the US has yet to apologise for that.

It really should have.

Ah, but if I take the tone of the OP, I would tell them to "get over it already".

See how that works?

The Holocaust ? Oh yes, more than sick of hearing about that...

I'd actually rather hear about 9/11! At least people were affected who are still alive! That is not to say that there are no Holocaust folks still around.. but it becomes like slavery... hardly anyone alive to speak of... it was over 60 years ago.. forgive! Germany is our friend now. Japan is our friend now.. Hell, Vietnam is now our friends.

You want horror and shock from me? Let's talk Darfur, Lebanon, and the current atrocities unjustly taking place NOW! Bottom Line!

And I was told you and I would never agree on anything... ;)

I was sick of hearing about it from the first time I heard about it. Because people made such a big deal about it but I didn't care.

And I was told you and I would never agree on anything... ;)

;) Don't believe everything you hear.. !~

It was called "waving the bloody shirt" in the Civil War. You can usually get quite a supportive emotional reaction when you claim to be avenging a violent wrong. The key is to keep the wrong fresh in the minds of the people you want to react emotionally.
I'm fully aware of how do drive the public to do stupid things, I'm just rather sad when it happens, that all.

And DK - The two are rather different.

Any death is tragic, but the deaths of hundreds of thousands which is supported and orchestrated by a government is probably worse than around three thousand deaths by some fanatics, all of whom who died in the crashes, no?

Any death is tragic, but the deaths of hundreds of thousands which is supported and orchestrated by a government is probably worse than around three thousand deaths by some fanatics, all of whom who died in the crashes, no?

Ah, no. The deaths of military personnel may be excused in any attack, but the targeting of a city with such a wide area weapon can only be construed as deliberately targeting civilians. Same as attacking the World Trade Center - you're guaranteed that the majority of casualties will be civilians.

Wrong, either way. If we owe the Japanese an apology, the Muslims of the world owe the US an apology.

Wrong, either way. If we owe the Japanese an apology, the Muslims of the world owe the US an apology.
Every Muslim I've ever talked to has said that September 11th was wrong, whereas every American I've ever talked to has harped on about how the Japanese wouldn't surrender, so they needed to drop the bombs (despite there being large amounts of evidence that they would have, and that their envoys were killed).

Every Muslim I've ever talked to has said that September 11th was wrong, whereas every American I've ever talked to has harped on about how the Japanese wouldn't surrender, so they needed to drop the bombs (despite there being large amounts of evidence that they would have, and that their envoys were killed).
I've met Americans who were apologetic, and plenty of Muslim cab drivers here at Dulles Airport who are not only not apologetic, but quite happy that 9-11 happened.

I'm not a fat, idiotic, patriotic American, but it just makes me mad how people think that 9/11 was stupid and we should forget about it. If you're tired of hearing about it, then don't let yourself hear about it. Why even come into this thread if you're tired of it?

I've met Americans who were apologetic, and plenty of Muslim cab drivers here at Dulles Airport who are not only not apologetic, but quite happy that 9-11 happened.


yup, and theres this guy, some random guy, really tall, beard walkes with a cane. Named bin laden, really happy 9/11 happened too.

I'm not a fat, idiotic, patriotic American, but it just makes me mad how people think that 9/11 was stupid and we should forget about it. If you're tired of hearing about it, then don't let yourself hear about it. Why even come into this thread if you're tired of it?
How exactly do you continue your normal life without hearing about it?

I'm really looking forward to 11/9 this year, because the Enron movie is finally coming out in the UK. :D

Aside from that, yeah, I'm fed up with everyone using it as political ammunition.

I'm really looking forward to 11/9 this year, because the Enron movie is finally coming out in the UK. :D

Aside from that, yeah, I'm fed up with everyone using it as political ammunition.
Yeah no kidding all those that seem to be upset at Hollywood making a buck so close after it happened seem to be fine using it for political ammo

How exactly do you continue your normal life without hearing about it?
I don't know if anyone else is capable of this, but it's something I call "ignoring".

I don't know if anyone else is capable of this, but it's something I call "ignoring".
You still have to hear about it … ignoring in real life does not quite work the same as on the forums ...

I'm not sick of hearing about it. It affected my family and people I know, some very directly.

Are you sick of hearing about the holocaust ?

I don't hear about the holocaust every single time I turn on the news, I don't get the holocaust shoved down my throat every day, and politicians don't use the holocaust in their campaigns, for political gain.

911 was the defining moment of our generation. No, I'm not sick of hearing about it.

Yeah. Don't tell me what the defining point of my generation is. That's very much up to debate.

I don't think 9-11 should be ignored, obviously, I believe it should be remembered. But it shouldn't consume us. Also, giving so much attention to such an event seems to be disrespectful of other calamitous events in our recent history.

Does anyone say, "Where were you on 9-11, 1969, when the US illegally bombed Cambodia, killing over 500,000 innocent Cambodians?"

I'm not a fat, idiotic, patriotic American, but it just makes me mad how people think that 9/11 was stupid and we should forget about it. If you're tired of hearing about it, then don't let yourself hear about it. Why even come into this thread if you're tired of it?
Yeah, it was bad, but the US has done much, much worse itself, and its foreign policy over the last 60 or so years has really made something like September 11th inevitable.

People don't just forget Vietnam, the killing of thousands of Iraqi Conscripts, that really big explosion in that Russian pipeline, the use of atom bombs, the support of the IRA / Pol Pot / Saddam Hussein / Pinochet / various armed Capitalist groups in South America / The Muhad'juhadeen / The Cuban Exiles / Apartheid etc. just like that.

The US has been responsible for literally millions of deaths in the last 60-odd years, and yet the loss of 3000 people is a shock to the general US public.

Which is somewhat odd, really.

earlier in the thread someone about muslims have to appologise for 9/11.

its not like all the muslims got to gether and said "hey lets go kill somebody." where as americans apparently vote in people that kill people.

most muslims are happy smiley fun people. the only problem i have with them is that they dont drink. i was a t a muslim party awhile ago and i was shicked that no one was drinking. but i suppose each to thier own.

i was reading an article about what happends if they start getting irish muslims. i thought it was funny. fantatics with actuall decent tactics.

Je parlerai en français parce que je sais qu'il irrite les patriotes américains idiots. Ils sont morts, ils ont été enterrés, regardez le futur.
Et je reponderai en français parce que je suis un patriot américain intelligent. Ouais, ils sont morts, mais penses-tu que nous américains oublierions? Bien sûr c'est important pour regarder au futur, mais quelquefois c'est plus important pour souvenir le passé.

Yeah no kidding all those that seem to be upset at Hollywood making a buck so close after it happened seem to be fine using it for political ammo


Thats america...Use anything to gain a political advantage. http://www.smileyhut.com/angry/blowup.gif

Yeah, it was bad, but the US has done much, much worse itself, and its foreign policy over the last 60 or so years has really made something like September 11th inevitable.

People don't just forget Vietnam, the killing of thousands of Iraqi Conscripts, that really big explosion in that Russian pipeline, the use of atom bombs, the support of the IRA / Pol Pot / Saddam Hussein / Pinochet / various armed Capitalist groups in South America / The Muhad'juhadeen / The Cuban Exiles / Apartheid etc. just like that.

The US has been responsible for literally millions of deaths in the last 60-odd years, and yet the loss of 3000 people is a shock to the general US public.

Which is somewhat odd, really.


The Muhad'juhadeen was around before America even got involved with Afghanistan. But don't try to justify 9/11, you can't justify killing 3000 innocent people who had nothing to do with anything. http://www.smileyhut.com/angry/bruce_h4h.gif

Et je reponderai en français parce que je suis un patriot américain intelligent. Ouais, ils sont morts, mais penses-tu que nous américains oublierions? Bien sûr c'est important pour regarder au futur, mais quelquefois c'est plus important pour souvenir le passé.
No, forgetting is bad. However, lingering obsessively over a memory is worse. And that is what 11/9 is - a memory. The world has changed, and will continue to do so. Looking at the past is not going to help us determine the future, because we have never encountered politics like this before. There were casualities, but they've been mourned, they've had their day, and they'll have their memorial. You're disrespecting their memories by using it as political ammo or through faux patriotism. Get over it; the rest of the world has.

EDIT: Your French was a bit strange. Did you use a translator?

No, forgetting is bad. However, lingering obsessively over a memory is worse. And that is what 11/9 is - a memory. The world has changed, and will continue to do so. Looking at the past is not going to help us determine the future, because we have never encountered politics like this before. There were casualities, but they've been mourned, they've had their day, and they'll have their memorial. You're disrespecting their memories by using it as political ammo or through faux patriotism. Get over it; the rest of the world has.

EDIT: Your French was a bit strange. Did you use a translator?


If you don't learn from the past you are doomed to repeat it. Which is what satan wants. http://www.smileyhut.com/exile/chevil.gif

No, forgetting is bad. However, lingering obsessively over a memory is worse. And that is what 11/9 is - a memory. The world has changed, and will continue to do so. Looking at the past is not going to help us determine the future, because we have never encountered politics like this before. There were casualities, but they've been mourned, they've had their day, and they'll have their memorial. You're disrespecting their memories by using it as political ammo or through faux patriotism. Get over it; the rest of the world has.

EDIT: Your French was a bit strange. Did you use a translator?

Once upon a time, a certain chap known as Churchill said: 'not in vain'.

If we fail to arrange matters so that Islamism becomes a quantite neglegiable, then we'll have despoiled pretty much every memory that is good.

Mission to be accomplished: the removal of Islam as a factor in global politics ( as opposed to it being merely another religion. )

The Muhad'juhadeen was around before America even got involved with Afghanistan.
The IRA was around before the US gave them Armalites...
The Capitalist rebels were also around before the US armed them and told them to get funding from coccaine...
I'm pretty damn sure that Pol Pot was alive before the US supported his horrible reign in the UN.
The prejudice behind Apartheid was around before the government was backed up by the US.

The US doesn't create these groups, it funds them, arms them, helps them out at the UN and generally promotes its own cause under a wafer-thin line of 'democracy', or in the case of Pol Pot, just a showing that the US government didn't like Vietnam very much, and was prepared to accept the Killing Fields to show its hatred.
But don't try to justify 9/11, you can't justify killing 3000 innocent people who had nothing to do with anything. http://www.smileyhut.com/angry/bruce_h4h.gif
I think you'll find the US tries to do it all of the time, just to other countries, so I'm just responding in kind.

I'm also trying to explain why it happened, not give any kind of support for it.

Once upon a time, a certain chap known as Churchill said: 'not in vain'.
Is that the same one who was an anti-Ghandi twat with racism as his foreign policy, by any chance?
If we fail to arrange matters so that Islamism becomes a quantite neglegiable, then we'll have despoiled pretty much every memory that is good.

Mission to be accomplished: the removal of Islam as a factor in global politics ( as opposed to it being merely another religion. )
Fucking genius.

Let me guess, to be replaced with the Church of England's spouted rubbish?

Is that the same one who was an anti-Ghandi twat with racism as his foreign policy, by any chance?

Fucking genius.

Let me guess, to be replaced with the Church of England's spouted rubbish?

Ahmadi islamism would serve the purpose just as well, politically.
Ditto for Wiccanism, Druidism, Hinduism, or what-have-you.

Either way, we'll be under no obligation whatsoever to hunt down crazy guys with silly hats, unshaven chins, and funky bottles.

Would you miss having Jihadis around?

Ahmadi islamism would serve the purpose just as well, politically.
Ditto for Wiccanism, Druidism, Hinduism, or what-have-you.

Either way, we'll be under no obligation whatsoever to hunt down crazy guys with silly hats, unshaven chins, and funky bottles.
Or even better - take every single religion out of politics and be done with it.
Would you miss having Jihadis around?[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't miss having any kind of killers around, no matter what their motive.

Would you miss having the UDF around, the shining light in the fight against Catholicism in Northern Ireland?

Or even better - take every single religion out of politics and be done with it.
Would you miss having Jihadis around?
I wouldn't miss having any kind of killers around, no matter what their motive.

Would you miss having the UDF around, the shining light in the fight against Catholicism in Northern Ireland?[/QUOTE]

*snorts* Evasive manouvers.

The problem is not the UDF, the problem is not even the PIRA, the problem is... well... I guess it is the people whom you seem very anxious to defend.

I agree with Lord Stevens: IF YOU'RE A MUSLIM - IT'S YOUR PROBLEM

nothing itelligent to but luckily for freedom of speach....
churchill was a ****.
i think that was self explainatory.

The problem is not the UDF, the problem is not even the PIRA, the problem is... well... I guess it is the people whom you seem very anxious to defend.

I agree with Lord Stevens: IF YOU'RE A MUSLIM - IT'S YOUR PROBLEM

i'm pretty sure putting a bulet into ian paisleys head would solve some problems.

i'm pretty sure putting a bulet into ian paisleys head would solve some problems.

No doubt.
Perhaps the bullet into the head of that Brasilian chap solved some problems as well.

But slightly irrelevant to the problem at hand.

*snorts* Evasive manouvers.
Possibly if you can read, then you can work out that I don't like Jihadis, I don't like the IRA, I don't really like soldiers, and I certainly hate mercenaries.
The problem is not the UDF, the problem is not even the PIRA, the problem is... well... I guess it is the people whom you seem very anxious to defend.
And who would those people be?
I agree with Lord Stevens: IF YOU'RE A MUSLIM - IT'S YOUR PROBLEM
Ignorance is bliss, eh?

No doubt.
Perhaps the bullet into the head of that Brasilian chap solved some problems as well.
Wotcher!

Brown person with wires alert!

Possibly if you can read, then you can work out that I don't like Jihadis, I don't like the IRA, I really like soldiers, and I certainly hate mercenaries.

And who would those people be?

Ignorance is bliss, eh?


More evasions. It boils down to this:

If you don't like Jihadis, and really like our soldiers, then why don't you come out plain, and openly favour employing our soldiers to eradicate jihadis?

More evasions. It boils down to this:

If you don't like Jihadis, and really like our soldiers, then why don't you come out plain, and openly favour employing our soldiers to eradicate jihadis?
Missed out a "don't"...

Sorry, that kind of ruined my point there.

Wotcher!

Brown person with wires alert!

Just as useful as taking out Paisley. I mean, how many folks would miss either of 'em?

I could have said something really nasty about the missing don't, but I'll hold my tongue.

Just as useful as taking out Paisley. I mean, how many folks would miss either of 'em?
Any death is pretty tragic to be honest.
I could have said something really nasty about the missing don't, but I'll hold my tongue.
Yeah, thanks...

ha ha. luckily the grammer and spelling nazi's didnt get to in time to give out to you.

Once upon a time, a certain chap known as Churchill said: 'not in vain'.

If we fail to arrange matters so that Islamism becomes a quantite neglegiable, then we'll have despoiled pretty much every memory that is good.

Mission to be accomplished: the removal of Islam as a factor in global politics ( as opposed to it being merely another religion. )
Are you truly comparing WWII - a war which claimed the lives of 48 million people - with the deaths of 2,792 American civilians in a single terrorist attack? Your perspective on reality is skewed beyond redemption. The immediate retaliation by American forces in Afghanistan claimed the lives of 3,800+ civilians. Do you truly believe that those 3,800 innocent lives are somehow worth less than their American equivilents? Somehow, in your mind, one American civilian equates to 0.73 Afghanistanis, and only 0.00006 WWII victims.

Seriously, get some perspective.

No, forgetting is bad. However, lingering obsessively over a memory is worse. And that is what 11/9 is - a memory. The world has changed, and will continue to do so. Looking at the past is not going to help us determine the future, because we have never encountered politics like this before. There were casualities, but they've been mourned, they've had their day, and they'll have their memorial. You're disrespecting their memories by using it as political ammo or through faux patriotism. Get over it; the rest of the world has.

EDIT: Your French was a bit strange. Did you use a translator?
Well, I agree it's wrong to use it as political ammunition. My french is strange because it's been a year since I last spoke it. You don't use it, you lose it. But no translator other than my brain.

I am, I am so sick of hearing about this EVERY YEAR! Now its just an excuse to increase patriotism. Come on, EVERY YEAR people what were YOU doing and where were YOU! Stop asking this every year!


I more hate bringing it up a month early to bitch about the fact that people actually, you know, have this thing about observing anniversaries.

I also hate that people are so wrapped up in their own discomfort that they don't consider the people who lost a great big chunk of their lives and are still trying to cope with the deaths in the family, the loss of jobs, health, and the feeling of security they once had.

I definitely hate making it seem that the only reason to observe the anniversary is some political gambit.

But you don't see me telling such people every year to shut up about it, do you?

um...do you really need to know...

1) American debt payments (not as guilty as some of us but stil...)

2) aid money being pumped into guns (the cold war was over and 9/11 hadn't happened!)

3) lack of American interest in anything African

Oh? and who is in Darfur preventing the slaughter of black muslims?
And who bombed the hell out of the Cote D'Ivoire airfields?

I am, I am so sick of hearing about this EVERY YEAR! Now its just an excuse to increase patriotism. Come on, EVERY YEAR people what were YOU doing and where were YOU! Stop asking this every year!
I'm not sick of hearing about 9/11, I'm just sick of the GOP using 9/11 as a prop for their political agenda while shrieking that everybody else is "politicizing the tragedy."

Anybody who tries to use 9/11 to prop up their agenda is equally pathetic, no matter which party or what religion they belong to.

You were the one that claimed 9/11 was more important than the London bombings because more lives were claimed. He simply followed the formula you used and one-upped the number dead in the attacks using the number dead from starvation.

Noooo. He asked if no-one remembered the London Bombings. I wonder that no one seems to remember Madrid, or Bali....

patriotes américains idiots. Ils sont morts, ils ont été enterrés, regardez le futur.

Le Français est à peine une langue morte, et les Américains la comprennent aussi bien.

Hey, toaster strudel:

Most everyone I know had already known America wasn't invincible for our entire lives. A lil' thing called mutually-assured destruction? The Cold War? Doesn't ring any bells?

No-one I knew while growing up had any confidence that we would not die in a nuclear war, at any time.America, invincible?

Who sold you on that horseshit?

You remember "The Day After"? That scared the shit out of me as a kid.

I hadn't heard about it until you brought it up now...
nice...

Noticed that, did you? :)
I'd love to do an informal survey of how often it is brought up to to criticize America, in the context of "blah blah blah you're always bringing up 9/11".

Le Français est à peine une langue morte, et les Américains la comprennent aussi bien.
True, but I find the American contempt of the French amusing :)

I don't understand the deep, soul-wrenching trauma that many Americans seem to have suffered during 9/11. I know that it was a tragedy, but compared to the tragedies that happen in the world as a whole every year, it was small fish.

Then again, I was 12 at the time it happened, so I really don't have very good perspective. Maybe it would have been worse if I were older.

Probably. As a teacher, I had to keep my students calm, especially since many had parents who worked in the WTC or its close environs. I hope you never have to be responsible for protecting people whom you have no real power to protect.

We had to stay until every student was picked up. Some weren't, because their parents had been killed or were missing. And friends of mine who were in the city were trapped there for hours since all the transportation systems shut down.

NYC was under complete lockdown and martial law for a week, and we'd lost our ability to see what the heck was going on in the world for a while -- because all the television stations transmitted from the aerial on the WTC.

Cell phones, too.

Some of our students were working in the WTC at the "Co-Op" program -- essentially "work for credits".

Burning memos, plane tickets, etc. rained over my neighborhood, and the pulverized dust and ashes were over everything for three months.

That all said -- I find it is usually idiot kids who were nowhere near the aftermath who use it to justify their uber patriotism, and that it's used to troll by people who feel the need to keep bringing it up just to take a swipe at the US when no one else has spoken of it.

Are you truly comparing WWII - a war which claimed the lives of 48 million people - with the deaths of 2,792 American civilians in a single terrorist attack? Your perspective on reality is skewed beyond redemption. The immediate retaliation by American forces in Afghanistan claimed the lives of 3,800+ civilians. Do you truly believe that those 3,800 innocent lives are somehow worth less than their American equivilents? Somehow, in your mind, one American civilian equates to 0.73 Afghanistanis, and only 0.00006 WWII victims.

Seriously, get some perspective.

Yeah, now that you mention it there were fewer civilians that died in Pearl Harbor than died in 9/11 so to compare an unimportrant skirmish like WWII to something important like the War on Terror does show a lack of perspective. Defeating the terrorists and their leftist enablers is clearly more important than defeating Hitler was. :)

True, but I find the American contempt of the French amusing :)

Honestly? I've met two French people in my life; both were Parisian and both were absolutely lovely people.

I am, I am so sick of hearing about this EVERY YEAR! Now its just an excuse to increase patriotism. Come on, EVERY YEAR people what were YOU doing and where were YOU! Stop asking this every year!


Exactly. It's not as bad as other tragedies that have happened around the world in the past few years, yet thanks to the strength of media that comes from the US we have to keep hearing about it.

I've managed to forget it as much as possible, cause it depresses me when I think of it. I do think some people take it too seriously; lots of people don't have proper perspective considering the amount of death in the world every day.

Remember, remember the 11th of september (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilean_coup_of_1973). The day that Pinochet started his terror reign.

There has been a few tragedies that happened at that date. It always makes me sad to know that one tragedy can eclipse so many others bacause of all the media attention.

Oh and to all of you who spoke french: thanks for trying, but you all need a refresher course in french grammar. But it warms my heart to see my mother tongue used in an internationnal forum.

I was there and I am pretty sick of hearing about it.

why ?

Yeah, just remember that the US has yet to apologise for that.

It really should have.

We'll get around to apologizing right after Japan issues an apology for the invasion of China or the Rape of Nanking. How about an apology for the Bataan Death March or Unit 731.

And by apology, I mean an actual one instead of a statement about how it is unfortunate that other nations got in the way of Japan's manifest destiny.

We'll get around to apologizing right after Japan issues an apology for the invasion of China or the Rape of Nanking. How about an apology for the Bataan Death March or Unit 731.

And by apology, I mean an actual one instead of a statement about how it is unfortunate that other nations got in the way of Japan's manifest destiny.
Then don't expect an apology for September 11th, 2001 from Arabs, Muslim or anybody that cheered after the attack.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

why ?

Because its being used for political/personal gain. A tragedy has become an excuse for profit, votes, and power.

Then don't expect an apology for September 11th, 2001 from Arabs, Muslim or anybody that cheered after the attack.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Im not expecting an apology. Thats like the current German govt apologizing for the holocaust; they didnt do it so why should they apologize?

And lets not forget the dancing Israelis that not only cheered but filmed the whole attack. Should they apologize?

Im not expecting an apology. Thats like the current German govt apologizing for the holocaust; they didnt do it so why should they apologize?

And lets not forget the dancing Israelis that not only cheered but filmed the whole attack. Should they apologize?
Honestly? I think it shows a lot about the mindset of a country when it willingly apologize. Do I expect it? No.

But this side discussion has come about by someone saying that people should apologize for the Twin Tower attacks. I fail to comprehend that mindset.

Then don't expect an apology for September 11th, 2001 from Arabs, Muslim or anybody that cheered after the attack.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

I'm not asking them for an apology. I am offended that some choose to trivialize such a horrific event, since "just a few Americans died", while they think it is atrocious that we do the same thing to events in other countries. I do think that the 9/11 attacks are blatantly used as propaganda to stir up what some call "patriotism" and as an excuse to justify serious faults in US foreign policy. I just get offended when people talk about how we dropped atomic bombs on Japan for no good reason. All of the apologists seem to forget there was a war on and that Japan was one of the primary instigators of that war, which they prosecuted with exceptional brutality.

Honestly? I think it shows a lot about the mindset of a country when it willingly apologize. Do I expect it? No.

But this side discussion has come about by someone saying that people should apologize for the Twin Tower attacks. I fail to comprehend that mindset.

What I believe contributed to this huge failure in the middle east was that somehow the war on terror became a war on nations rather than an idea. A nation cannot apologize for the attacks.

What I believe contributed to this huge failure in the middle east was that somehow the war on terror became a war on nations rather than an idea. A nation cannot apologize for the attacks.

Agreed.

I'm not asking them for an apology. I am offended that some choose to trivialize such a horrific event, since "just a few Americans died", while they think it is atrocious that we do the same thing to events in other countries. I do think that the 9/11 attacks are blatantly used as propaganda to stir up what some call "patriotism" and as an excuse to justify serious faults in US foreign policy. I just get offended when people talk about how we dropped atomic bombs on Japan for no good reason. All of the apologists seem to forget there was a war on and that Japan was one of the primary instigators of that war, which they prosecuted with exceptional brutality.
Ok, then I misjudged your comment. Welcome to this forum where you'll soon find that you will be labeled one thing or another just for taking one side of a smaller issue. Like I just did.

Ok, then I misjudged your comment. Welcome to this forum where you'll soon find that you will be labeled one thing or another just for taking one side of a smaller issue. Like I just did.

Actually, I am used to that on other message boards, so that is OK. And thanks for the welcome! :)

Ignorance is bliss, eh?


i somewhat have to agree with it, Muslim is a religion not a race, you can be born into a family that practices the muslim religion but you are not born with no choice to be muslim or not. you make the decision to be muslim and if you are having problems with that choice then maybe you shouldnt of decided to be muslim.

being muslim is your problem or your blessing. all depending on how you view the world. same as being christian, atheist, American, British.

the only things you dont have a choice in is genetics. and nationality and religion are not genetic.

Not as such. Of its use to evoke a pathetic response, and to justify policy, but not of the memory itself.

Honestly? I've met two French people in my life; both were Parisian and both were absolutely lovely people.
Exactly my point.

Honestly? I've met two French people in my life; both were Parisian and both were absolutely lovely people.

Exactly my point.

Ah yes, but I'm an American and we all know Americans all disparage the French. :p

Ah yes, but I'm an American and we all know Americans all disparage the French. :p
Every Parisian I've met was a jackass.

Then don't expect an apology for September 11th, 2001 from Arabs, Muslim or anybody that cheered after the attack.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
Then don't expect us to shut up about it, either. Or even ask us to.

Every Parisian I've met was a jackass.

Either I got lucky or you did not. :)

Either I got lucky or you did not. :)
I think you got lucky.

It seemed that people in Brittany were absolutely great - while anyone within the Paris area was a jerk.

This has also been the experience of my friends and co-workers over the years. A pretty steady state.

Either I got lucky or you did not. :)
Every Parisian I know reacted to my attitude. maybe they just don't like people screaming America and like family mother and/or teachers?

Every Parisian I've met was a jackass.
I'd probably act like a jackass in your presence too, Deep Kimchi.

Every Parisian I know reacted to my attitude. maybe they just don't like people screaming America and like family mother and/or teachers?

Give me a break.

I've been able to successfully blend in in Germany, Poland, Russia, Israel, Jordan, Morocco, Spain, the UK, and a host of other countries.

There were some people in the UK on my last trip who thought I was from there.

Parisians were, to the last person I met, jackasses.

And lets not forget the dancing Israelis that not only cheered but filmed the whole attack. Should they apologize?

theres always the theory that israel planned it. remember osmas first reaction? he said he didnt do it. why wouldnt he claim something that would be concider a great honour to his people? at first.

theres always the theory that israel planned it. remember osmas first reaction? he said he didnt do it. why wouldnt he claim something that would be concider a great honour to his people? at first.


I remember Osama's first reaction: he said it was a vanguard of young muslims.

Life must be hard for those with defective memories : failing to capitalise surely gives you a lot of F's on your report-card.

Give me a break.

I've been able to successfully blend in in Germany, Poland, Russia, Israel, Jordan, Morocco, Spain, the UK, and a host of other countries.

There were some people in the UK on my last trip who thought I was from there.

Parisians were, to the last person I met, jackasses.

I somehow doubt it. I would venture you don't speak French?

Not at all.
It needs a lot more in-depth investigation in order for the world not to have to wait another 75 years before crucial documents are released.

Go here and educate yourself a bit . instead of drinking the funny " kool aid " .



http://www.answers.com/topic/osama-bin-laden

It isn't wrong to hear on 9/11 but what really irritates me is when I switch on the news or some other channel, and they are still arguing why it happened, or if it could have been avoided, things like these make you sick, not remebering the dead and the biggest event of the 21st century.

http://www.answers.com/topic/osama-bin-laden

HS Osama's 49 yet he looks about 27 what’s his secret!

HS Osama's 49 yet he looks about 27 what’s his secret!

infiedel blood!

I'd probably act like a jackass in your presence too, Deep Kimchi.
Funny, didn't have any problems in any other country (not even the UK).

I remember Osama's first reaction: he said it was a vanguard of young muslims.

Life must be hard for those with defective memories : failing to capitalise surely gives you a lot of F's on your report-card.

i wasnt there when he first heard but when i came home that day from school the first mention of osma i heard from the news was that he said it wasnt him.

I somehow doubt it. I would venture you don't speak French?
Read, write, and speak French.

I am, I am so sick of hearing about this EVERY YEAR! Now its just an excuse to increase patriotism. Come on, EVERY YEAR people what were YOU doing and where were YOU! Stop asking this every year!

To be honest? Yes. I don't mind people bringing it up as something as and of itself, a tragedy worth not repeating and one of the worst parts of the events before and after. But when it's used as an excuse for war, a call for sympathy, a focal point for patriotism and spoken about as if it's the only bad thing to happen in the world ever, that's when I change channels.

In Britain, we had 7/7. Many people in London lost friends and relatives, as did others across the UK. Some of those people had also lost people in 9/11, and the war. We hold 3 minutes silence for those people. Then we get on with our lives. Dwelling on tragedy, talking incessantly about all these terible thigns, is NOT something done here. Yes, it was truly awful... but what about NOW? People are still dying, both in actual conflicts and in the ensuing lack of basic services and essential materials.

Why?

In some parts of the world, it's simply because people aren't doing enough, they're too concerned with diverting funds to doing more than 'enough' in other countries. All because, every time anyone tells the fighters (or, more specifically, their commanders) to stop, they turn around and say '9/11'.