NationStates Jolt Archive

I swear, Olmert makes John Kerry look like a hard liner. He sends in more troops, then on Sunday He'll accept a cease fire?

Having a flip flopping PM as your leader can't be good for morale. Especially when all Hezz needs to do to claim victory is survive. And then recruit more underlings to handle the cash,supplies, and weapons shipped in from Syria and Iran.

This is an instance where the troops are willing, but the leader isn't.

So much for unwavering support for Israel on your behalf...

So much for unwavering support for Israel on your behalf...
It's the Kentuckian way.

So much for unwavering support for Israel on your behalf...

Well, I do support Israel, but I must admit their PM is a bit....um...doubleminded?

Well, I do support Israel, but I must admit their PM is a bit....um...doubleminded?

So you are saying that they should not accept a cease-fire? You want the killing to continue?

So you are saying that they should not accept a cease-fire? You want the killing to continue?

There can't be a ceasefire.

Hezzbollah still exists within Lebanon;
The 3 missing IDF soldiers haven't been returned
Etc

So yes, the killing must continue.

There can't be a ceasefire.

Why?

Hezzbollah still exists within Lebanon;
The 3 missing IDF soldiers haven't been returned
Etc

So yes, the killing must continue.

And see more civilians die?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/11/un.draft/index.html

That is the text of the UN draft resolution that is expected to be approved by the Israeli Security Cabinet.

No word yet on Hezbollah's reaction to it.

Someone lacks understanding of Israel and Israeli politics...

Olmert didn't know what he was doing in the first place. He'd been only a few months in the job, and it was the military hardliners walking into his office demanding authorisation to do whatever they wanted. He wavered then, and failed to give any following operation a bit of political sensibility. That's why this was a military-only operation and ultimately cannot bring a political victory (although with a bit of luck the international force will come close).

Hezbollah was always going to survive. They were dying while they weren't fighting and had lost their reason to exist in the minds of the Lebanese public. That problem's been solved for the next decades for them.

And besides, Israel has (as usual) PR issues to deal with. Correct or not, world opinion is never really on Israel's side, and if he has to do a bit more to try and prove that he cares about the civilians, then that's the least he can do.

Why?



And see more civilians die?

I hate to see the civilians die, but there's nothing we can do about them. We can do something about OUR civilians dying, however.

I hate to see the civilians die, but there's nothing we can do about them. We can do something about OUR civilians dying, however.

Yep. We are pulling our civilians out. There is plenty we can do about civilians dying however. So you oppose this cease-fire I take it?

Yep. We are pulling our civilians out. There is plenty we can do about civilians dying however. So you oppose this cease-fire I take it?

Has Hezzbollah left Lebanon? Have they suffered heavily?

Have the IDF soldiers been returned?

Neither, although hezzbollah HAS lost a lot, Israel stands to lose more by packing up and leaving.

Has Hezzbollah left Lebanon? Have they suffered heavily?

Hezbollah is a Lebanonese Political Party. Why should they leave Lebanon?

Have the IDF soldiers been returned?

Neither, although hezzbollah HAS lost a lot, Israel stands to lose more by packing up and leaving.

Only if Lebanon goes against this resolution. If they go with it and follow through with it, I do not believe so.

Hezbollah is a Lebanonese Political Party. Why should they leave Lebanon?



Only if Lebanon goes against this resolution. If they go with it and follow through with it, I do not believe so.

What's the address for the Lebanese Hezzbollah political party? Ill TM it to the IDF.

Loot, sack, and plunder their offices for intel....

There can't be a ceasefire.

Hezzbollah still exists within Lebanon;
The 3 missing IDF soldiers haven't been returned
Etc

So yes, the killing must continue.
Well, you're a tough guy. Strap on your Rambo underoos and get after it. Show them Hezzies who's boss.

I've got to agree Olmert has been flip flopping, and he isn't doing a great job of leading Israel; I say this as an Israeli. I have no doubt Sharon would have done a much better job.

Anyway, a cease-fire for now, imo, is for the best. Both sides want to stop fighting. However, if Hezbollah continues with the attacks, and isn't eventually disarmed, and the Unifil won't do their job, Israel will have to go back in, and create a buffer zone in southern Lebanon.

Anyway, a cease-fire for now, imo, is for the best. Both sides want to stop fighting. However, if Hezbollah continues with the attacks, and isn't eventually disarmed, and the Unifil won't do their job, Israel will have to go back in, and create a buffer zone in southern Lebanon.
As it is, UNIFIL's time is over. The new force will be made up of much more important countries, have better equipment and better rules of engagement. Not to mention that the public eye will be on them much more.

And not only that, but the zone they control is probably going to be much bigger, which makes rocket attacks on Israel more difficult. I predict two things:
a) Occasional use of longer range missiles from Hezbollah. Israel will protest against any such attacks, and either the French (who I believe have the biggest part in the intervention force) or the Israelis will destroy the launchers.
b) Hezbollah will get much broader support from the Lebanese populace, with all that will come with it. I'm not sure whether the current type of democratic, pro-Western government can survive all this.

The problem will solve itself. If a Kahanist in Israel thinks Olmert is pussying out on killing the ragheads, we'll have another Yigal Amir in the making.

:D

There can't be a ceasefire.

Hezzbollah still exists within Lebanon;
The 3 missing IDF soldiers haven't been returned
Etc

So yes, the killing must continue.

Killing 600+ Lebanese cilivians just for the 3 IDF soldiers? Wow... :rolleyes:

The Hezbos are sure jackasses, but Israel don't have to be that destructive. Look about how many innocent people (excluding the Hezbos) and infrastructures Israel destroyed compare to the Hezbos.

BTW, I'm neutral and I believe cease-fire should be declared ASAP before the two jackasses destroy themselves.

I swear, Olmert makes John Kerry look like a hard liner. He sends in more troops, then on Sunday He'll accept a cease fire?

The ceasefire offered by the UN Resolution gives him everything he wants, why shouldn't he accept it?

Edit: Well, except for the complete elimination of Hezbollah, but he knows he won't get that.

Isint anybody finding it od, how people are expecting Hezzbollah to agree to a cease-fire?

The ceasefire offered by the UN Resolution gives him everything he wants, why shouldn't he accept it?

Edit: Well, except for the complete elimination of Hezbollah, but he knows he won't get that.

DM and a whole lot of people are disappointed that the Dead Muslims Party and The Second Coming might be postponed.

:D

I hate to see the civilians die, but there's nothing we can do about them. We can do something about OUR civilians dying, however.

I thought American civilians had been pulled out for weeks now.

a) Occasional use of longer range missiles from Hezbollah. Israel will protest against any such attacks, and either the French (who I believe have the biggest part in the intervention force) or the Israelis will destroy the launchers.

Emphasizes the importance of the extension of the control of the government of Lebanon over all Lebanese territory in accordance with the provisions of resolution 1559 (2004) and resolution 1680 (2006), and of the relevant provisions of the Taif Accords, for it to exercise its full sovereignty, so that there will be no weapons without the consent of the government of Lebanon and no authority other than that of the government of Lebanon.

The arrangement will fail, yes; within five years, if not much earlier (it may well be more like five days), this whole thing will be seen as a joke. But I doubt US/Israel will consent to the Lebanese government consenting to an armed Hezbolllah, so if the provisions of the resolution are actually followed for a while, Hezbollah will not have "longer ranged missiles."

So much for unwavering support for Israel on your behalf...
Only the second post on the thread and you win....hands down!! :D

Isint anybody finding it od, how people are expecting Hezzbollah to agree to a cease-fire?

Yes. I am finding that very odd. Nasrallah has been adamant about a cease-fire not having conditions that abridge Lebanon's sovereignty, and I think this one qualifies as such an abridgement.

Yes. I am finding that very odd. Nasrallah has been adamant about a cease-fire not having conditions that abridge Lebanon's sovereignty, and I think this one qualifies as such an abridgement.
Well, the idea for much of it came from the Lebanese government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siniora_Plan
http://www.lebanonundersiege.gov.lb/english/F/eNews/NewsArticle.asp?CNewsID=61
An immediate and comprehensive cease-fire and a declaration of agreement on the following issues:

1. An undertaking to release the Lebanese and Israeli prisoners and detainees through the ICRC.
2. The withdrawal of the Israeli army behind the Blue Line, and the return of the displaced to their villages.
3. A commitment from the Security Council to place the Shabaa Farms area and the Kfarshouba Hills under UN jurisdiction until border delineation and Lebanese sovereignty over them are fully settled. While in UN custody, the area will be accessible to Lebanese property owners there. Further, Israel surrenders all remaining landmine maps in South Lebanon to the UN.
4. The Lebanese government extends its authority over its territory through its own legitimate armed forces, such that there will be no weapons or authority other than that of the Lebanese state as stipulated in the Taef national reconciliation document.
5. The UN international force, operating in South Lebanon, is supplemented and enhanced in numbers, equipment, mandate and scope of operation, as needed, in order to undertake urgent humanitarian and relief work and guarantee stability and security in the south so that those who fled their homes can return.
6. The UN, in cooperation with the relevant parties, undertakes the necessary measures to once again put into effect the Armistice Agreement signed by Lebanon and Israel in 1949, and to insure adherence to the provisions of that agreement, as well as to explore possible amendments to or development of said provisions, as necessary.
7. The international community commits to support Leabnon on all levels, and to assist it in facing the tremendous burden resulting from the human, social, and economic tragedy which has afflicted the country, especially in the areas of relief, reconstruction and rebuilding of the national economy.

This is insanity. 100+ dead Israelis for what? To pull out and let those bastards at the UN sit around and beat off as Hizballah continues its attacks against Israel as its been doing. I LOVE UN resolutions that seek to implement their wishes on an organization that is not part of the UN itself.

All I have to say is Olmert is either saving face because he wants to show the world that Israel will make the most painful concessions to its own security to promote peace....or he's the biggest sucker since Rabin (may he rest in peace).

All in all though..we all now Hizballah isn't gonna be stopping their attacks anytime soon...so hopefully this resoltion won't take hold come Sunday and Israel can finish Hizballah off once and for all...and yes Israel haters...it is possible to decimate hizballah...once this resolution fails...(and IT WILL, because Hizballah is not going to be disarmed by any UN troops) Israel will have the opportunity to get in there and bomb these sons of bitches back to kingdom come.

If a Kahanist in Israel thinks Olmert is pussying out on killing the ragheads, we'll have another Yigal Amir in the making.
Hope not. I think that Olmert wants SOME troops in Lebanon to disarm Hezbollah - but UN troops get better PR than Israelis.

Having a flip flopping PM as your leader can't be good for morale. Especially when all Hezz needs to do to claim victory is survive.
QFT
I dont know how you figure Hez won anything. At the end of the day, they have been pushed out of thier base of operations in South Lebenon with a mandate by the UN that they must be disarmed. They will have a UN force, with a mandate of shoot to kill, that will be 700% larger then it was before, and in essence will be its own occupying force. Hez doesnt want that either. They also have to live without good food or water or sanitation or housing as thier economy and infrastructure are destroyed. Yay victory for Hez?!
Rather, if all goes according to plan, it's a crushing defeat for Hezbollah.

QFT

Rather, if all goes according to plan, it's a crushing defeat for Hezbollah.


With the caveat that 'goes according to plan' is not something that happens often in the Levant.

Isint anybody finding it od, how people are expecting Hezzbollah to agree to a cease-fire?

They don't, HENCE the provision for some 15.000 troops. ;)

Well, I do support Israel, but I must admit their PM is a bit....um...doubleminded?I'm still wondering how you found out what the IDF soldiers think and since when you speak for them...

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!

He is still your prime minister *shrugs*

Well, the idea for much of it came from the Lebanese government.

Whether or not Nasrallah will care is an open question. IIRC he did indicate that he would accept an agreement based on those seven conditions, but he also said that no more concessions would be made. Undoubtedly he will see the more aggressive stance towards Hezbollah indicated in the UN Resolution to be such a concession.

Well, you're a tough guy. Strap on your Rambo underoos and get after it. Show them Hezzies who's boss.

Well, I am pretty modest about it ya know...shucks... :p

Whether or not Nasrallah will care is an open question. IIRC he did indicate that he would accept an agreement based on those seven conditions, but he also said that no more concessions would be made. Undoubtedly he will see the more aggressive stance towards Hezbollah indicated in the UN Resolution to be such a concession.

He needs time to replace his FADJR rockets and get more supplies.

Of course he'll say ceasefire.

I've got to agree Olmert has been flip flopping, and he isn't doing a great job of leading Israel; I say this as an Israeli. I have no doubt Sharon would have done a much better job.

Anyway, a cease-fire for now, imo, is for the best. Both sides want to stop fighting. However, if Hezbollah continues with the attacks, and isn't eventually disarmed, and the Unifil won't do their job, Israel will have to go back in, and create a buffer zone in southern Lebanon.

Sharon rocks. I miss the guy.

Hezbollah won't stop, count on it.

He needs time to replace his FADJR rockets and get more supplies.

Of course he'll say ceasefire.

Kinda hard to get more ammunition when all the roads leading to and from Syria are cut, the bridges destroyed, airport unusable along with the seaports. So tell me how they will be able to rearm when it will take a long time to rebuild the infrastructure?

Sharon rocks. I miss the guy.

Hezbollah won't stop, count on it.

If they do not stop, I have a feeling that the international force will have something to say about it.