NationStates Jolt Archive

So yesterday, I went through airport security as many other people did. I didn't know anything about the foiled terrorist attacks, until I got to the metal detector. I get there, go through taking off my shoes, putting loose change in the little tray, etc. So now, they tell me to get rid of toothpaste, deoderant, eye drops, and other liquids. The man in charge, who was the only one who didn't seem to be balding, was yelling, "Just take your toothpaste out now, my x-ray machine will detect it and it will waste your time!" I kind of laugh, and put everything in the metal detector. After all, I got a pocket knife through just a month earlier. Sure enough, everything goes through, undetected. Good thing I wasn't a terrorist. So I get to the Dall-ass Love airport, go to a Chilles and get these wierd buffalo wings, then wait an hour for the plane to arrive. Just when we're about to board, the TSA says they're going to hand check all our bags. I sure as hell was not going to get rid of my vanilla toothpaste, not without a fight anyway. After looking for a minute, I realize they aren't actually checking the people, just the bags. Ok, so I put my vanilla toothpaste, deoderant stick, and nasal spray in my coat. It got through, just like the first time. Good thing I'm not a terrorist.

I guess next they'll have to ban anything that makes Emeril say 'Bam!'...

It's a good thing you didn't get caught. I remember getting caught with baby formula after the big anthrax scare, they took it away from me, and my baby had to go on a 3 hour plane trip with no food. I wonder what would have happened if they would have caught you........probably an experience not worthy of keeping your toothpaste.

But...but...but, irrational bans on carry on items keeps us safe from the terrorists!

But...but...but, irrational bans on carry on items keeps us safe from the terrorists!
Not surprising. Whether or not I got to keep a lighter depended on the human doing the search.

I tell you, it would be better to strip search, body cavity search (both twice), and then force people to wear a paper gown and paper slippers and have no carry-on baggage.

Might as well add the 45 minute El Al security interrogation, where they can bounce you from the flight for just having political sympathies with terror groups.

Last time I flew to the Philippines, they sold duty-free booze mid-flight.. I'm pretty sure that's flammable.. pop the cap and toss in a match and the passengers die of smoke inhalation in a few minutes.. I guess the point is, a bit more profiling and a bit less nuttiness is in order.

So yesterday, I went through airport security as many other people did. I didn't know anything about the foiled terrorist attacks, until I got to the metal detector. I get there, go through taking off my shoes, putting loose change in the little tray, etc. So now, they tell me to get rid of toothpaste, deoderant, eye drops, and other liquids. The man in charge, who was the only one who didn't seem to be balding, was yelling, "Just take your toothpaste out now, my x-ray machine will detect it and it will waste your time!" I kind of laugh, and put everything in the metal ..............................etc.


goo, what airport do you go to. I went through metal detectors in cleveland and charles de gaulle last month and the damn thing beeped becaue i had a gum wrapper in my pocket.

I'm no dentist, but I would recommend that you stop using explosive toothpaste.

We could make the screeners' jobs easier by wearing less clothing.

Like this:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/jtkwon/lessclothing.jpg

If terrorists really wanted to sneak their explosives on board, they could just hide them in drug shipments. :D

I tell you, it would be better to strip search, body cavity search (both twice), and then force people to wear a paper gown and paper slippers and have no carry-on baggage.

My bet?
A lotta flights will be a lot less full in that's ever implemented

If terrorists really wanted to sneak their explosives on board, they could just hide them in drug shipments. :D
That is actually quite a scary concept. If they could find a way to swallow the explosives and detonate them inside...icky.

I did laugh at the joke first, btw. :p

We could make the screeners' jobs easier by wearing less clothing.

Like this:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/jtkwon/lessclothing.jpg

Or this: http://www.porkdisco.com/speedo.gif

No, No, No.

Fat people will not be allowed to fly. They could hide something in the rolls of fat.

Here's a better pic
http://www.oscillatewildly.org/images/nicklemons-1.jpg

Here's a better pic
http://www.oscillatewildly.org/images/nicklemons-1.jpg

orange flip flops?

if you ask me this man is clearly a fashion terrorist and should be shot at dawn for crimes against humanity

orange flip flops?

if you ask me this man is clearly a fashion terrorist and should be shot at dawn for crimes against humanity
I'm willing to have him take off the shoes, like they already make you do, in exchange for the rest of him.

I'm no dentist, but I would recommend that you stop using explosive toothpaste.


4 out of 5 dentists surveyed recommend non-explosive toothpaste. (The
5th blew up.)

After looking for a minute, I realize they aren't actually checking the people, just the bags. Ok, so I put my vanilla toothpaste, deoderant stick, and nasal spray in my coat. It got through, just like the first time. Good thing I'm not a terrorist.
And here we are back to my contention that we can't ever hope to detect every violation of whatever policy one hopes to enforce. If we want to provide real safety and security screenings the only way is to profile. And, as unpopular as it is to say so, the profile is 'young, Arab male'. To do anything else is to look stupid and vulnerable.

And, as unpopular as it is to say so, the profile is 'young, Arab male'. To do anything else is to look stupid and vulnerable.
How would that stop people like John Walker Lindh, white non-Arabs.

How would that stop people like John Walker Lindh, white non-Arabs.
It would work just as well as what we do now. Some thorough screening of the passengers, rather than the baggage, would ferret out other candidates for scrutiny. Even the simple screenings that you get at the Tel-Aviv airport, not the El-Al marathons, would help to identify candidates for more questioning.

4 out of 5 dentists surveyed recommend non-explosive toothpaste. (The
5th blew up.)

4 out of 5 dentists think the 5th one should really chill out.

If we really wanted to have an effective security team, we would do it like the Israelis and cut all the politeness crap.

I'm willing to have him take off the shoes, like they already make you do, in exchange for the rest of him.:confused: :confused: :confused:

How would that stop people like John Walker Lindh, white non-Arabs.

To be fair to the guy, I don't think he was suicidal, at least according to an investigative report that was broadcast on the radio about 6 weeks ago..

To be fair to the guy, I don't think he was suicidal, at least according to an investigative report that was broadcast on the radio about 6 weeks ago..
No, not suicidal. Just a young man with shit for brains.

No, not suicidal. Just a young man with shit for brains.

Well, either way, the beard was a dead giveaway whether the guy was white or Chinese..

Well, either way, the beard was a dead giveaway whether the guy was white or Chinese..
So, shouldn't we just screen all men who have beards at that rate?

So, shouldn't we just screen all men who have beards at that rate?

Couldn't hurt.. if the guy's got three years' beard on him, check it out. That's how they nailed Cat Stevens after all. It's effective.

Couldn't hurt.. if the guy's got three years' beard on him, check it out. That's how they nailed Cat Stevens after all. It's effective.
Well, that was a more of a personal "you're music is shit and now I'm going to make you pay" thing..... ;)

So, shouldn't we just screen all men who have beards at that rate?
What harm would be done by asking them a few pointed questions about where they were going, what their business was, what airline they were flying? Just enough to gauge their reactions and possibly dismiss them as candidates for further screening.

What harm would be done by asking them a few pointed questions about where they were going, what their business was, what airline they were flying? Just enough to gauge their reactions and possibly dismiss them as candidates for further screening.

Because everybody knows that if they're a terrorist, they'll have no idea which airline they're flying, where they're going, or have a story about why they're going there.

What harm would be done by asking them a few pointed questions about where they were going, what their business was, what airline they were flying? Just enough to gauge their reactions and possibly dismiss them as candidates for further screening.

...

What makes you assume terrorists are that dumb? Seriously?

So yesterday, I went through airport security as many other people did. I didn't know anything about the foiled terrorist attacks, until I got to the metal detector. I get there, go through taking off my shoes, putting loose change in the little tray, etc. So now, they tell me to get rid of toothpaste, deoderant, eye drops, and other liquids. The man in charge, who was the only one who didn't seem to be balding, was yelling, "Just take your toothpaste out now, my x-ray machine will detect it and it will waste your time!" I kind of laugh, and put everything in the metal detector. After all, I got a pocket knife through just a month earlier. Sure enough, everything goes through, undetected. Good thing I wasn't a terrorist. So I get to the Dall-ass Love airport, go to a Chilles and get these wierd buffalo wings, then wait an hour for the plane to arrive. Just when we're about to board, the TSA says they're going to hand check all our bags. I sure as hell was not going to get rid of my vanilla toothpaste, not without a fight anyway. After looking for a minute, I realize they aren't actually checking the people, just the bags. Ok, so I put my vanilla toothpaste, deoderant stick, and nasal spray in my coat. It got through, just like the first time. Good thing I'm not a terrorist.

Dumb security guards. The mint-flavored kinds are the ones that terrorists hide explosives in.

Because everybody knows that if they're a terrorist, they'll have no idea which airline they're flying, where they're going, or have a story about why they're going there.
It's not about being dumb. It's about appearing evasive or rehearsed. I don't expect you to understand, but it works extremely well.

...

What makes you assume terrorists are that dumb? Seriously?
Works for El Al, doesn't it.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/09/26/rec.el.al.security/

El Al attributes its record of safe travel to its tough security measures.

"If you're a passenger on El Al, most likely you will be observed from the minute that you left your car or you have been dropped off ... and then you will have met the security agent before you go to check in to your flight," said Issy Boim, president of Air Security International.

When El Al passengers arrive at Israel's Ben Gurion airport or any other airport that services the airline, they undergo an extensive interview by trained security personnel.

They are asked several questions, such as:

-- Who paid for your ticket?

-- What is the purpose of your travels?

-- Did anybody have access to your bags before you arrived to the airport?

-- When did you book this flight?

During the interrogation, ticket holders are also psychologically evaluated. Their entire makeup is judged by tone of voice, mood and body language.

The information is sent by computer to international law enforcement agencies, such as Interpol or Scotland Yard, for instant evaluation.

If there are doubts, the passenger is not allowed on the plane.

Security experts said El Al Airlines leaves absolutely nothing to chance.

In the United States, cleaning and maintenance crews are allowed to move freely around aircraft, sometimes without supervision, conditions open to the threat of an "inside job," experts said.

By contrast, El Al planes are heavily guarded 24 hours a day, seven days a week, even during cleaning and maintenance.

They also notice if you have a one-way ticket, or an immediate return, and will want to know where you're staying.

And yes, terrorists have been that stupid.

El Al has caught terrorists using JUST the questions at the boarding gate - both in Amsterdam and Zurich - men who had explosives.

Any recent El Al hijackings that you can name? Bombings in flight by a passenger?

They also notice if you have a one-way ticket, or an immediate return, and will want to know where you're staying.

And yes, terrorists have been that stupid.

El Al has caught terrorists using JUST the questions at the boarding gate - both in Amsterdam and Zurich - men who had explosives.

Any recent El Al hijackings that you can name? Bombings in flight by a passenger?
You're right. I should have rephrased that.

What makes you think all terrorists are that dumb?

You're right. I should have rephrased that.

What makes you think all terrorists are that dumb?

Let's consider how effective it's been so far:

At least six (formerly two) undercover agents accompany each international El Al flight, sitting amongst passengers whilst holstering firearms. All El Al pilots are former Israeli Air Force fighter pilots, and all El Al flight crew members are trained in hand to hand combat. In fact, most El Al employees have served in the Israel Defence Force (since national service is compulsory in Israel for most citizens).

El Al security procedures also require that all passengers be interviewed individually prior to boarding, allowing El Al staff to identify possible security threats. All passengers are classified on a basic 3 tier threat scale: Israelis and Jews are usually classified as the lowest threat, Westerners are usually classified as medium level threats, and Arabs (particularly males) are usually classified as high threat. In addition, all luggage must pass through a decompression chamber; this simulates pressures during flight which may be triggers for explosives [1]. El Al is the only airline in the world that passes all luggage through this special chamber.

The El Al fleet is also the only commercial airline fleet in the world to be equipped with anti-missile countermeasures.

As a result of the tight security, only one El Al plane has been successfully hijacked, in 1968

Looks pretty effective. Which means that up to now, terrorists are pretty stupid.

It looks like it's fairly easy to coax an stupid person into boarding an airliner, playing with volatile explosive liquids, and blowing themselves up (think Richard Reid for the type). The smart people are on the ground talking them into it.

El Al also has decades of experience in the questioning, and the evaluation of responses. It's much, much harder to gain the expertise to get around such questioning than it is to come up with a different material to bring on board.

snip

Cool. I know how successful El Al have been.

My point is it is dangerous to assume that potential terrorists (today) would not be pre-planned and could have very concrete and believable back stories to get them past such 'questioning'.

You'd be looking more at polygraphs to get an accurate assessment of the truth, and even then they're not that reliable.

Cool. I know how successful El Al have been.

My point is it is dangerous to assume that potential terrorists (today) would not be pre-planned and could have very concrete and believable back stories to get them past such 'questioning'.

You'd be looking more at polygraphs to get an accurate assessment of the truth, and even then they're not that reliable.

It's one thing to have a believable backstory. It's one thing to have a valid passport with an assumed name. Credit cards. Tickets. Itinerary.

I can give you all of these things, but if you are not a natural convincing actor, all of these things are worthless and you will give yourself away.

A true, experienced expert can, with a stolen passport and five minutes in the bathroom come up with a persona, backstory, and appearance. But there are very, very few of these experienced people in the world, and I would doubt that their psychological makeup would lead them to suicide before middle age.

It's also next to impossible to train someone to be that good - you're either that good, or you're not.

It's one thing to have a believable backstory. It's one thing to have a valid passport with an assumed name. Credit cards. Tickets. Itinerary.

I can give you all of these things, but if you are not a natural convincing actor, all of these things are worthless and you will give yourself away.

A true, experienced expert can, with a stolen passport and five minutes in the bathroom come up with a persona, backstory, and appearance. But there are very, very few of these experienced people in the world, and I would doubt that their psychological makeup would lead them to suicide before middle age.
Well, I was thinking less of a quick 5 min rehearsal in the bathrooms of the airport and more of "Reservoir Dogs Drugs Mule" stroy that is easily learnt, with simple details changed.

It doesn't sit well with me that all that's standing between a potential terrorist getting on board or not...is his depth at acting!


It's also next to impossible to train someone to be that good - you're either that good, or you're not.
True, true.

It's one thing to have a believable backstory. It's one thing to have a valid passport with an assumed name. Credit cards. Tickets. Itinerary.

I can give you all of these things, but if you are not a natural convincing actor, all of these things are worthless and you will give yourself away.

A true, experienced expert can, with a stolen passport and five minutes in the bathroom come up with a persona, backstory, and appearance. But there are very, very few of these experienced people in the world, and I would doubt that their psychological makeup would lead them to suicide before middle age.

It's also next to impossible to train someone to be that good - you're either that good, or you're not.
I had to talk to three different Israeli agents before they would let me on the plane. And I was just not forthcoming about who and what I did while I was in the country because I didn't think that was any of their business. They are thorough and do a job none of the TSA agents could ever hope to.

Who you did? That didn't come out right, did it? :p

Or did you mean it that way? Well, what DID you mean anyway?
No, that wasn't one of the questions. Sometimes my fingers take over on their own and sometimes they just leave out important little phrases like "I saw". It would have been a more interesting interrogation had they insisted on asking "Who did you do?". Despite the number of really cute little girls in the IAF, I didn't do any.

So yesterday, I went through airport security as many other people did. I didn't know anything about the foiled terrorist attacks, until I got to the metal detector. I get there, go through taking off my shoes, putting loose change in the little tray, etc. So now, they tell me to get rid of toothpaste, deoderant, eye drops, and other liquids. The man in charge, who was the only one who didn't seem to be balding, was yelling, "Just take your toothpaste out now, my x-ray machine will detect it and it will waste your time!" I kind of laugh, and put everything in the metal detector. After all, I got a pocket knife through just a month earlier. Sure enough, everything goes through, undetected. Good thing I wasn't a terrorist. So I get to the Dall-ass Love airport, go to a Chilles and get these wierd buffalo wings, then wait an hour for the plane to arrive. Just when we're about to board, the TSA says they're going to hand check all our bags. I sure as hell was not going to get rid of my vanilla toothpaste, not without a fight anyway. After looking for a minute, I realize they aren't actually checking the people, just the bags. Ok, so I put my vanilla toothpaste, deoderant stick, and nasal spray in my coat. It got through, just like the first time. Good thing I'm not a terrorist.

You are not funny either and some day an attitude like that will get you into some deep shit. Will it be worth it?

No, No, No.

Fat people will not be allowed to fly. They could hide something in the rolls of fat.

Here's a better pic
http://www.oscillatewildly.org/images/nicklemons-1.jpg

And where the hell did you get my picture?

Nice declaring it on the internet. Pure Genius.

Last time I flew to the Philippines, they sold duty-free booze mid-flight.. I'm pretty sure that's flammable.. pop the cap and toss in a match and the passengers die of smoke inhalation in a few minutes.. I guess the point is, a bit more profiling and a bit less nuttiness is in order.

Ethanol can be used in a few explosives, especially with peroxide, which several sources have hinted at as one of the chemicals the terrorists were supposed to have been using. Although acetone peroxide seems to be the more likely explosive, particularly as it's likely to have been the explosive for the 7/7 London bombings.

Until further notice BA has halted all flights from the UK.

BA announced "I aint getting on no damn plane you crazy fool"