NationStates Jolt Archive

From the Animal Rights Thread:

That's right! We're the most effective killing machines ever! w00t us!


That's Debatable.... *Starts thread about it*

And here it is, discuss....

Most effective? Hardly. The human body is not designed for efficient killings like many animals in nature are.

But they are certainly the most creative. Tools, weapons, no animal in nature can come up with so many different ways to kill others. Or for so many reasons, not all rational.

Robots are. *nods*

We're certainly more effective than anything to come before us.

But I still don't have a built-in laser sword in my left hand, so there's probably better out there somewhere. :p

I'd say so. We may not have the build for it, but we have the brains for it. I mean, a cheetah can chase down an animal that runs fast enough to break the speed limit on I-95, but a human can invent a weapon to bring down an animal 450 yards away at the pull of a trigger without breaking a sweat.

Well, physically we are quite poor for the job. But we make up for it with creativity, and enginuity. We are able to take a physical bout between two animals and give ourselves outstanding odds of winning even though we have an inferior body. We are able to fight how we want. We can win with just our brain and a little bit of time, when everything else has to resort to brute strength at some time.

Well, physically we are quite poor for the job. But we make up for it with creativity, and enginuity. We are able to take a physical bout between two animals and give ourselves outstanding odds of winning even though we have an inferior body. We are able to fight how we want. We can win with just our brain and a little bit of time, when everything else has to resort to brute strength at some time.

Creativity of that scale also requires resource to carry out effectively. If you don't have jack shit, all the creativity will be worth just as much agains that huge-ass beast looking at you like dinner.

Nope. I think the honor belongs to these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbe
(More specifically: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathogen )

Nope. I think the honor belongs to these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbe
(More specifically: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathogen )
Hmm, I don't think so. They are certainly the most powerful killing machines ever, but not particularly efficient or effective. You need millions of microbes to take down a human, for example, so going by kill ratio it's not that great.

We kill millions of bacteria every time we wash our hands, humans ftw!

I'd say so. We may not have the build for it, but we have the brains for it. I mean, a cheetah can chase down an animal that runs fast enough to break the speed limit on I-95, but a human can invent a weapon to bring down an animal 450 yards away at the pull of a trigger without breaking a sweat.

450 yards? Only if we aren't even trying. If we try, we can wipe out huge expances of land on the other side of the planet. I can't think of any other animal that can kill things it can't even see

You need millions of microbes to take down a human, for example, so going by kill ratio it's not that great.

The comparison is misleading, causing microbes to appear weaker than they might actually be. It doesn't take many millions of microbes to take down one human so much as it takes many millions of microbes to take down many millions of individual human animal cells (and even so, not every single such cell need necessarily be destroyed to bring down a whole human, whereas the microbial infection must be effectively eradicated; another weakness in human beings). As such, the ability of many pathogens to very quickly reproduce and overwhelm such a massive cellular system (which possesses its own built in defenses, even) seems to suggest to me that these microbes are frighteningly efficient and effective, especially in the presence of an immunodeficient state that renders an individual human being more or less defenseless (AIDS, etc).

Imagine a human military that could produce as many individual soliders so incredibly quickly and efficiently as a bacterium could reproduce itself.

Creativity of that scale also requires resource to carry out effectively. If you don't have jack shit, all the creativity will be worth just as much agains that huge-ass beast looking at you like dinner.
We are smart enough to show up with the resourcess we need. If you plan on killing an animal with a bow, you best bring an assembled bow with you, instead of building one on the spot.

We kill millions of bacteria every time we wash our hands, humans ftw!

And somewhere (including one's hands) all those are replaced and throughly reinforced before one has finished drying said hands.

We are smart enough to show up with the resourcess we need. If you plan on killing an animal with a bow, you best bring an assembled bow with you, instead of building one on the spot.

Preparation is good and all, but there will be situations where man won't be able to access those resources, or the resources become damaged, worthless or too dangerous to use. Wild animals are always prepared and are seldom unable to use their natural weapons.

Preparation is good and all, but there will be situations where man won't be able to access those resources, or the resources become damaged, worthless or too dangerous to use. Wild animals are always prepared and are seldom unable to use their natural weapons.
And at those times, we're about average in the animal kingdom. Sure, we can't bring down a tiger, but a strong man has a pretty good chance against a wolf, even unarmed. And if that man gets his hands on a sharp stick, he's got a pretty big advantage over the wolf.

As of animals, we are not gifted with razor sharp claws, fast speed, huge jaws, venom, or fur to endure cold temperatures. But as humans we have worked out way up on the animal heirarchy by using our minds. By using our minds we created weapons. Since our brains are apart of us, and to build our weapons we use our minds. Therefor our minds is the greatest weapon we have ever had. By our constant evolution by our excessive extent of learning, (though I do think the people on these forums need to study a bit more) we broaden our means to survive. We are the most deadliest creatures of this world. To prove it, take a look at the cause of the Atomic bomb did to Japan or what Hitler did to the jews, poles, gypsies, freemasons, handicapped, and people who thought were gay or of gay descent. We as humans are capable of the destruction of every living thing on this earth, we kill species cause we like the taste of them, or we save animals because we like the look of them, or we like the taste of them so we breed more or genetically engineer them. If humans are capable of destroying the earth, we are certainly capable of saving it. But at this moment it is not in any current danger unless you're a mindless Bush hater and think hes satan and he will destroy the earth, then you will be proven wrong later in life. Or if you think global warming is going to kill us all. Well you invest your money in however you like, all truth will be revealed at time goes by.

Humans aren't the most efficient killing machine. It falls to their microscopic equivalent. Virusses. A virus can repdroduce up to a thousand in seconds. It can bring down any creature, nevermind size, strength, speed or whatever attributes said creature possesses. It works as a Hive mind, with every cell working towards the same goal: Complete assimiliation of their host. There like the Borg but microscopic.

If the question is regarding humans we must rate it as a species or as individuals.

As a species, then imagine the human species in conflict with any other species (saying microbes, microorganisms or viruses is too broad, you'd need to narrow it to something specific).
Humans have demonstrated that they can compete and win over any species, even microbe versions.

As individuals, our results are more mixed.
The best human individuals can defeat many other individuals, but some have a distinct advantage, ebola, great white shark, asp, etc.
I'd say we are certainly the most versatile killers as individuals though.

Viruses.

450 yards? Only if we aren't even trying. If we try, we can wipe out huge expances of land on the other side of the planet. I can't think of any other animal that can kill things it can't even see

Bats. :p

Viruses.

I concur.

I concur.
THIS JUST IN:

Kazus actually CONCURRED with Deep Kimchi...

The nation is now at a RED ALERT for apocalyptic happennings...

THIS JUST IN:

Kazus actually CONCURRED with Deep Kimchi...

The nation is now at a RED ALERT for apocalyptic happennings...

We agree on gay rights too.

The last 3.8 billion years has been the age of the microbe. They have brought down the Tyrannosaurus Rex, the Smilodon and Homo Sapiens by the millions. They have killed more life than can possibly be imagined. They even exploit us and all other multicellular life for their own evolution and natural selection.

We're ok, but many viruses are fantastic at killing. In fact, Australian researchers changed the DNA of a mousepox virus and made it capable of killing more than 90% of the mice infected and it even killed 60% of mice resistant to or immunized against mousepox.

In 1996 Australian virologists spliced the gene that codes for an immune-system protein known as interleukin-4, which promotes the release of antibodies by white blood cells, into vaccinia virus. To their surprise, the virologists found that the recombinant virus "profoundly suppresses" cellular immunity in the infected host--the ability of the host's body to fight off viral infections. In 2001 another team, including some of the investigators from the 1996 study, reported that they had added the gene for interleukin-4 (the gene itself is known as IL4) to ectromelia, or mousepox virus. Given the immune suppression noted in 1996, the 2001 team might have had good reason to expect a calamitous result with their IL4-mousepox chimera. But they were not really trying to create a lethal agent. Their goal was to create a kind of birth control for mice, which overrun granaries in Australia. The effect they observed, however, was overwhelming: the chimera overcame immunity not only in mice that had previously been vaccinated, but also in strains of mice known to be naturally resistant to mousepox. Sixty percent of the innnunized or resistant mice died of the genetically modified mousepox. The implications were clear: if such a deadly strain of mousepox could be built, what would prevent performing the same kinds of genetic manipulations, with the same chilling effects, with the virus that causes smallpox?

we're the most effective at homicide probably. but i reckon sharks have got the win on ultimate killing machine.

We agree on gay rights too.
Yes indeed. But usually, it's me agreeing with you. This is the first time you agreed with me.

Kiss me, Hardy!

I must've killed millions of viruses last time I had the flu. Considering almost everyone gets a virus in their lifetime and there's 6.5 billion people in the world, that's a lot of viruses killed.

Simple, a single 4 or 5 mile diameter space rock on a collision course with Earth. Is that a high enough object to kill ratio for you?

Simple, a single 4 or 5 mile diameter space rock on a collision course with Earth. Is that a high enough object to kill ratio for you?

I was going to suggest the same thing: a volcano or a large meteor/comet is the most effecient killing machine, because we can't stop them and they are almost guaranteed to kill anything within the blast radius right down to the microbe level.

I will say, though, that a lot of you do not appreciate how well-made the human body actually is. Saying that we are not as large or as strong as a horse, therefore are very poorly-made creatures is terrible reasoning, because it doesn't also factor in the things that humans are superior to horses in. Certainly a horse can substantially outsprint a human, but if you run a horse for 20 miles, it will fall over dead. A human, by contrast, can keep on running for another five miles and then run again in the next day or two. If you don't water a horse for a day, it will fall over dead. A human can go without water for a week, and keep active while doing it. A horse will collapse if its not fed constantly. A human can stay active and not eat for a month. If you startle a horse and chase it around for ten minutes, it faces a very real threat of falling over dead from adrenaline shock. A human can face the same kind of shocks to its endocrine system for well-nigh years on end before its pulmonary or circulatory system gives out. If you break a horse's leg, it cannot walk and is almost certainly already dead. If you break a human's leg, it can reset the bone on its own and walk 100 miles on it for assistance. Put very simply, saying a human is less well-designed than a horse is wrong because its an apples-and-oranges comparison; a horse is designed for short bursts of intense muscular activity, followed by long periods of inactivity and foraging. A human, by contrast, isn't built for strength so much as for phenomenal endurance; among the animal kingdom, only the African wild dog can run as far as we can before bringing prey down, only a few animals can survive for longer than we can without food and water, and only a very few can take the kind of internal punishment we can and keep on going.

No, there are plenty of more effective killing machines than humans. Like microbes, viruses, tigers, sharks, bears, lions, jaguars, snakes, wolves, elephants, rhinos, poisonous spiders, chimpanzees, orcas, leopards, komodo dragons, cows...

I could go on.

Where the human race excels is building killing machines.

"I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." -- Robert Oppenheimer

we might not be efficent but we can deliver absolute destruction on a massive scale.

we humans, are not effective killing machines, we use tools to do our killing, thus we create effective killing machines but we humans are not EKM's.

Weell...

I'd have to say that Death is the most effective killing machine. So there. :p

IRT Topic


Have you ever seen the movie "Alien"? ;)