NationStates Jolt Archive

http://abcnews.go.com/images/WNT/bolo_missing_egyptians.pdf

Yes, that first link is about the 11 missing Egyptian students. What's interesting is that the BOLO says "Approach with caution".

In the same order that says they are only wanted for questioning.

You don't put "approach with caution" in there unless you deem them to be armed and dangerous. Or are they making this assumption because they are Muslims?

And this one:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/N/NY_PILOT_BIAS_SUIT_BAOL-?SITE=WABCAM&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

According to the suit, filed in Manhattan Supreme Court, Baig asked, "Are you saying that you are not hiring me because of my name or my religion? ... Are you saying you are not hiring me because of where I'm from?"

The manager answered, "Yes, and JetBlue considers you a security risk," according to the suit.

And some of you think I'm not in the mainstream.... looks like the government and private industry both seem to think as I do.

*shrug* I've known the majority of Americans were ignorant for some time now, what's your point?

*shrug* I've known the majority of Americans were ignorant for some time now, what's your point?

Let's see. If we treated the original 9-11 hijackers as you might (and we certainly did), they would live here planning, learning to fly, and then crashing planes into buildings.

I say, and the 9-11 Commission says, it was ignorant to let them in in the first place.

Seeing as how the muslim community, on a worldwide scale, just happens to have a higher concentration of homocidal xenophobes than most other groups of people, you can kinda see why some people would want to approach with caution.

And some of you think I'm not in the mainstream.... looks like the government and private industry both seem to think as I do.
Yay! Other people back up your bigotry so it MUST be okay! Woohoo for groupthink!

Mostly by marines, through the scope of a high-powered rifle.

Let's see. If we treated the original 9-11 hijackers as you might (and we certainly did), they would live here planning, learning to fly, and then crashing planes into buildings.

I say, and the 9-11 Commission says, it was ignorant to let them in in the first place.

Yeah, if we view a religion with fear, suspicion and hatred they'll be no more terrorist attacks

Let's see. If we treated the original 9-11 hijackers as you might (and we certainly did), they would live here planning, learning to fly, and then crashing planes into buildings.

I say, and the 9-11 Commission says, it was ignorant to let them in in the first place.
Unless you are a mind reader, you are not going to be able to pick out potential terrorists from among the thousands of people pouring into your country, even if you only identify 'threats' according to their religious beliefs. Lock down fortress US all you want...it still won't make you safe.

But it sure plays into the hands of those who want you paranoid and terrified. Good on you.

I've got my hand on the trigger
And I don't know who to trust
When I look into your eyes
I see just devils and dust.

Bruce Springsteen.

That lot is not to be trusted ever again, since 911.

Seeing as how the muslim community, on a worldwide scale, just happens to have a higher concentration of homocidal xenophobes than most other groups of people, you can kinda see why some people would want to approach with caution.
It's amazing how this Muslim 'threat' has arisen out of the ashes of the 'communist' threat...what...communists don't scare you anymore? I wonder who the Muslims will pass the torch to...let's see....I don't think Africans have had a chance to be demonised yet, maybe once this fear of Islamic terroists hiding under your bed fades, you'll be able to shift your attention to the AIDS bearing haters of the west...

Omg people abusing a student visa to enter the US no wai!

Looks like the Canadian government agrees with me
http://ww2.psepc-sppcc.gc.ca/national_security/counter-terrorism/Entities_e.asp

How many of those are Islamic organizations? The vast majority?

I've got my hand on the trigger
And I don't know who to trust
When I look into your eyes
I see just devils and dust.

Bruce Springsteen.

That lot is not to be trusted ever again, since 911.

Well your kind aren't to be trusted since the sacking of byzantium, the massacre at Acre and the various colonial wars fought foor good christian values.

Well your kind aren't to be trusted since the sacking of byzantium, the massacre at Acre and the various colonial wars fought foor good christian values.
We seem to have grown up quite a bit more than Islam (Christians).

Do you see any large scale wars fought by a Christian ruled (officially) nation for strictly religious reasons in recent history?

Well your kind aren't to be trusted since the sacking of byzantium, the massacre at Acre and the various colonial wars fought foor good christian values.

Tough. In that case, I suggest you stay well away from Europe, North America, Australia, and Latin America ( to be on the safe side ).

Thankfully, at least some of us aren't utter retardsbwhoothinkgthatmallamuslimsraresSatanhworshippingsbaby-eatingudemonscfromkthes evil east.

Ughhh...

*passes out*

Looks like the Canadian government agrees with me
http://ww2.psepc-sppcc.gc.ca/national_security/counter-terrorism/Entities_e.asp

How many of those are Islamic organizations? The vast majority?
DK, my fucktard government is even more paranoid than yours, and has passed laws at least as, if not more, draconian that your Patriot Act...and yet most Canadians are under the mistaken impression that it's the yanks getting all crazy while we while away our time in total freedom.

DK, my fucktard government is even more paranoid than yours, and has passed laws at least as, if not more, draconian that your Patriot Act...and yet most Canadians are under the mistaken impression that it's the yanks getting all crazy while we while away our time in total freedom.

That's odd...I was under the impression that we WERE going crazy and you guys had it pretty well off up there.

What kind of laws are we talking about here? More Patriot Act clones or something even stupider?

That's odd...I was under the impression that we WERE going crazy and you guys had it pretty well off up there.

What kind of laws are we talking about here? More Patriot Act clones or something even stupider?

Canada, and especially the UK, are WAAAAAY ahead of the US on the government-led paranoia.

Here in the US, the private sector has now taken over the paranoia department, leaving the government to quibble over funding levels.

That's odd...I was under the impression that we WERE going crazy and you guys had it pretty well off up there.

What kind of laws are we talking about here? More Patriot Act clones or something even stupider?
We tend to go crazy quietly. I think it's because you guys bitch and complain more loudly than we do, so it seems as though you've actually got more to bitch and complain about.

After 9-11, several key pieces of legislation were radically altered. We introduced the Anti-Terrorism Act (http://canada.justice.gc.ca/en/news/nr/2001/doc_28217.html), altered the Criminal Code, the Canada Evidence Act, the Proceeds of Crime Act etc. In fact, under the new Terroism and Organised Crime laws, Mohawk protesters can be classified as both terrorist and/or organised crime for being 'nationalistic'.

You'd think after sending Canadians to be tortured in Syria that we'd wake up to this...

Well your kind aren't to be trusted since the sacking of byzantium, the massacre at Acre and the various colonial wars fought foor good christian values.
But the Christians realized that they were wrong. As I posted yesterday.

The mistake about the Western world and the Current Islamic Extremist world.

The West Learns from their mistakes, learn from their crimes, and try to prevent it from happening again. They change because of what they realize is wrong.

The extremists believe that everything they do is right, no matter how wrong it really is.

The West 'Grew up', the extremists refuse too. We're fighting a bunch of immature people who believe they can get their way by forcing others. That by murdering one person, you make their neighbor convert. That is why they are wrong.

Looks like the Canadian government agrees with me
http://ww2.psepc-sppcc.gc.ca/national_security/counter-terrorism/Entities_e.asp

How many of those are Islamic organizations? The vast majority?
Funny... I don't see one instance of the IRA or any of the UDP variants on there. It's all the non-Christian religions...

St. Louis seems to be fine. I see women in Burkah's daily (especially at schnucks) and I live two miles from the airport. I also frequently see men in turbans but sometimes they have the little daggers, so I suspect they're not actually muslim. Anyway, I've never seen someone so much as glance at these people with contempt or fear.

Funny... I don't see one instance of the IRA or any of the UDP variants on there. It's all the non-Christian religions...
Funny... the list was made by Canadians, not me...

Yay! Other people back up your bigotry so it MUST be okay! Woohoo for groupthink!

And he says the Muslims are a Borg Hivemind...

I also frequently see men in turbans but sometimes they have the little daggers, so I suspect they're not actually muslim.

They are Sikhs.

They are Sikhs.
Who are not Muslims.

Many people here seem to make that mistake.

How should they be ,looking around?

Who are not Muslims.

Many people here seem to make that mistake.

Hate crimes against Sikhs increased greatly in the US after 9-11. IIRC, a Sikh gas station owner in Arizona was killed by some rednecks after 9-11.

Pity really, since most Sikhs would take great offence if you call them muslim, given the history between them.

http://abcnews.go.com/images/WNT/bolo_missing_egyptians.pdf

Yes, that first link is about the 11 missing Egyptian students. What's interesting is that the BOLO says "Approach with caution".

In the same order that says they are only wanted for questioning.

You don't put "approach with caution" in there unless you deem them to be armed and dangerous. Or are they making this assumption because they are Muslims?

And this one:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/N/NY_PILOT_BIAS_SUIT_BAOL-?SITE=WABCAM&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT



And some of you think I'm not in the mainstream.... looks like the government and private industry both seem to think as I do.


I think a lot of the Country feels the way I do about it. I know that not all muslims are fanatical suicide bombers hell bent on the destruction of anything not devout muslim. My problem and lack of trust for muslims comes from their lack of desire and/or ability to keep their more radical factions in check to prevent the radicals from making the suicide/ homocidal attacks. Take the extreme radical lefts and rights in America, it is NOT that often that either pulls off any kind of radical devastating attack and suicide bombings in America are for the most part completely non existent. We all know though that there are some rather extreme views from the fringe of both sides of American politics. My question: Why the hell is it that almost every other civilized nation in the world is able to prevent these kinds of attacks yet the muslims can't or even worse won't?

Hate crimes against Sikhs increased greatly in the US after 9-11. IIRC, a Sikh gas station owner in Arizona was killed by some rednecks after 9-11.

Pity really, since most Sikhs would take great offence if you call them muslim, given the history between them.

As you may have noticed in other threads recently, most Americans (and I would bet most Westerners) can't tell you the difference between Sunni and Shia (or any of the other heterodoxical variants of Islam). So they're kind of disconnected when it comes to religions that don't neatly fall into Christian, Islam, Buddhism, or something they are familiar with.

Most are unaware of the existence of Sikhs (unaware of the entire religion, or the culture that sprang up around it, or the history of Sikhs).

America 1 - Education 0

America 1 - Education 0

So, do you believe that provides the answer for why JetBlue believes a Pakistani Muslim is a security risk?

So, do you believe that provides the answer for why JetBlue believes a Pakistani Muslim is a security risk?

You mean a US Citizen who happens to be from another country and *gasp* is a member of one of the most common religions in the world? A guy who has already worked as a commercial pilot for quite some time? Yes, lack of education and idiotic bigotry is pretty much the only reason that he would be seen as a security risk.

You mean a US Citizen who happens to be from another country and *gasp* is a member of one of the most common religions in the world? A guy who has already worked as a commercial pilot for quite some time? Yes, lack of education and idiotic bigotry is pretty much the only reason that he would be seen as a security risk.

I doubt it's a lack of education, nor do I believe it's bigotry.

Fear, perhaps. Not bigotry or lack of education.

In a world where nearly every published act of terrorism is committed by some militant Islamic person, it's fear.

Think of how much United had to pay out because of "security lapses" that allowed them to let hijackers take their planes and crash them.

An Egypt Air flight veteran also crashed a loaded airliner.

Liability and fear.

Omg people abusing a student visa to enter the US no wai!
YA WAI, man. YA WAI. :eek:

It is sad that the prevailing view in the US is suspicion, mistrust and xenophobia. People should not be quite so ready to give in like that. Treating people like crap does not affect their ability to do damage.

I doubt it's a lack of education, nor do I believe it's bigotry.

Fear, perhaps. Not bigotry or lack of education.

The fear comes from either bigotry or lack of education. Otherwise, there's no reason to be afraid of a guy just because he has brown skin and goes to a mosque for worship.

In a world where nearly every published act of terrorism is committed by some militant Islamic person, it's fear.

In other words, it is bigotry. They see that some of a group of people who happen to be grouped together do something. That obviously means they are all going to do it.

This is no different from, "There are a lot of black people in jail. In fact, they are there in disproportionate numbers. This means I won't hire a black guy because he will steal from me."

In other words, it is bigotry. They see that some of a group of people who happen to be grouped together do something. That obvioulsy means they are all going to do it.

So you're saying that the way that insurance companies calculate premiums is based on bigotry?

I'm sure that someone could do an actuarial calculation to derive the risk factor for being from Pakistan and being a Sunni Muslim from that area.

So you're saying that the way that insurance companies calculate premiums is based on bigotry?

To an extent, yes. My fiance is not a worse driver than me. As such, there is no reason that he should have to pay a higher premium than me. The only reason that he does is that the insurance companies have decided to lump all men into one group and all women into another - pretty much the definition of bigotry.

To an extent, yes. My fiance is not a worse driver than me. As such, there is no reason that he should have to pay a higher premium than me. The only reason that he does is that the insurance companies have decided to lump all men into one group and all women into another - pretty much the definition of bigotry.

Yet it is factually and statistically correct in every possible way.

Otherwise, insurance companies wouldn't make any money.

Yet it is factually and statistically correct in every possible way.

No, it isn't factually correct at all. It is statistically correct.

It is also statistically correct that a higher percentage of black males go to jail at some point in their lives than white males. Does that mean we should just go ahead and put them all in jail now, "just in case"?

Otherwise, insurance companies wouldn't make any money.

That's laughable. Insurance companies make money by betting - and it has nothing to do with these statistics. The statistics are nothing more than an excuse to make even more money off of people who simply don't want to get screwed.

Yet it is factually and statistically correct in every possible way.

Otherwise, insurance companies wouldn't make any money.

Much of what the left calls bigotry is factual too, they just don't believe that you can make accurate judgements on people based on statistical FACTS.

No, it isn't factually correct at all. It is statistically correct.

It is also statistically correct that a higher percentage of black males go to jail at some point in their lives than white males. Does that mean we should just go ahead and put them all in jail now, "just in case"?Ooh ooh let's also put all white men in jail because nearly all serial killers are white men.

No, it isn't factually correct at all. It is statistically correct.

It is also statistically correct that a higher percentage of black males go to jail at some point in their lives than white males. Does that mean we should just go ahead and put them all in jail now, "just in case"?

No, it means that blacks definitely have a problem, and that problem should be addressed before they reach an age where they commit crimes.

Ah, but that sounds like Bill Cosby, doesn't it?

No, it means that blacks definitely have a problem, and that problem should be addressed before they reach an age where they commit crimes.

Ah, but that sounds like Bill Cosby, doesn't it?



now now DK, stop trying to be an uncle tom

:p

Much of what the left calls bigotry is factual too, they just don't believe that you can make accurate judgements on people based on statistical FACTS.

Really? So just because a statistically higher percentage of black men end up in prison, all black men are criminals? Are you really prepared to make that statement?


No, it means that blacks definitely have a problem, and that problem should be addressed before they reach an age where they commit crimes.

No, it means that *some* blacks definitely have a problem, and that problem should be addressed before they reach an age where they commit crimes. It also might point to problems with the legal system. What it does not do, is give us any information about the black ethnicity as a whole.

Do you see any large scale wars fought by a Christian ruled (officially) nation for strictly religious reasons in recent history?

It's called Iraq.

It's called Iraq.
Nope. The US has no official religion. Try again.

No, it means that *some* blacks definitely have a problem, and that problem should be addressed before they reach an age where they commit crimes. It also might point to problems with the legal system. What it does not do, is give us any information about the black ethnicity as a whole.

What causes the higher black crime rate is the population density and poverty levels of places like L.A. - plain and simple.

If you took the deep south and compressed it into a much smaller area, there's a good chance that the same thing would happen to WHITE communities.

What causes the higher black crime rate is the population density and poverty levels of places like L.A. - plain and simple.

If you took the deep south and compressed it into a much smaller area, there's a good chance that the same thing would happen to WHITE communities.

At least you're attempting to address the problem.

The black community overwhelmingly doesn't want to accept that any problem they have is caused by anything else except intentional repression.

At least you're attempting to address the problem.

The black community overwhelmingly doesn't want to accept that any problem they have is caused by anything else except intentional repression.

The biggest problem that the black community has (in America,) is that so many inner-city blacks drop out of school because they face peer pressure if they want to learn because that's "acting white." I'm slightly left of Kurt Cobain. I'm not a racist, but the problem here is obvious. We should take all the funds we're spending on Iraq and use it to rebuild the American education system.

It would also be good if firearms were outlawed inside Los Angeles...

It would also be good if firearms were outlawed inside Los Angeles...

Look how well that idea worked in Washington, D.C.

It didn't. In fact, it has a far higher rate of firearm violence and murder than the suburbs.

Look how well that idea worked in Washington, D.C.

It didn't. In fact, it has a far higher rate of firearm violence and murder than the suburbs.

Well, I would suggest uparming the LAPD... but they already have the power of a small army...

Um...

I guess the answer here is that it would take time, rewards for intelligence from members of the community on who has weapons, and lots of manpower. They could also ban the sell of ammunitition/firearms within a long distance of the city so that it would be hard for these gangstas to rearm. With gas prices as high as they are, it'll be hard for Homie G to travel.

Well, I would suggest uparming the LAPD... but they already have the power of a small army...

Um...

I guess the answer here is that it would take time, rewards for intelligence from members of the community on who has weapons, and lots of manpower. They could also ban the sell of ammunitition/firearms within a long distance of the city so that it would be hard for these gangstas to rearm. With gas prices as high as they are, it'll be hard for Homie G to travel.

The single factor that has reduced US murder rates by 60 to 65 percent over the past ten years is....

not gun laws....

not extra funding for education....

not anti-crime programs...

not 100,000 police who came and went....

but the decentralization of public housing. In 1993-1994, the system of housing the poor in huge housing projects stopped, and was replaced by distributing the poor over a wider area.

Far more effective than anything else. We could probably go further in decentralizing them completely.

Nope. The US has no official religion. Try again.

The people in charge think they are holding true to those Judeo-Christian values the United States was founded upon, so I would beg to differ.

What causes the higher black crime rate is the population density and poverty levels of places like L.A. - plain and simple.

You dont have to get blacks involved. More people means more crime.

The people in charge think they are holding true to those Judeo-Christian values the United States was founded upon, so I would beg to differ.

Yet it's not cast as a religious war (as the primary or even secondary reason). Nor are we converting people when we get there. Nor is our government in any way beholden to any religious body.

Try again.

Yet it's not cast as a religious war (as the primary or even secondary reason). Nor are we converting people when we get there. Nor is our government in any way beholden to any religious body.
Except that, you know, you all hate muslims, apparently.

Except that, you know, you all hate muslims, apparently.
Even the atheists among us.

The people in charge think they are holding true to those Judeo-Christian values the United States was founded upon, so I would beg to differ.

Correct. It's hard to say the U.S. doesn't have an official religion when our President mentions "OUR creator" every 3 words and his dad said that atheists shouldn't be considered citizens "because this is one nation under god."

The single factor that has reduced US murder rates by 60 to 65 percent over the past ten years is....

not gun laws....

not extra funding for education....

not anti-crime programs...

not 100,000 police who came and went....

but the decentralization of public housing. In 1993-1994, the system of housing the poor in huge housing projects stopped, and was replaced by distributing the poor over a wider area.

Far more effective than anything else. We could probably go further in decentralizing them completely.

You're right. The only problem is that people freak out if they have to live near someone the least bit different, so they all group up in little communities.

Correct. It's hard to say the U.S. doesn't have an official religion when our President mentions "OUR creator" every 3 words and his dad said that atheists shouldn't be considered citizens "because this is one nation under god."
He can mention that all he likes.

The Supreme Court removes the Ten Commandments from court buildings, and Santa Claus can't parade in Rockville, Maryland anymore because it's offensive to non-Christians.

Still think we're all Christians? The same kind of Christian?

Yet it's not cast as a religious war (as the primary or even secondary reason).

Well the primary and secondary reasons are just the reasons of today. The government will change them again when it is convenient to do so.

Nor is our government in any way beholden to any religious body.

IRC, Bush did claim that God told him to go to war. He may have bypassed the religious body, but our war seems to be "beholden" to the big guy one way or another. =)

Nor is our government in any way beholden to any religious body.

Which is why a select few state governments have constitutional laws that state any government official must believe in a "higher power."

I love Tennessee. :)

The Supreme Court removes the Ten Commandments from court buildings,

Not always. In fact, as long as that display is a legal display and not a religious one and the display wasn't snuck into the courthouse in the middle of the night by a judge who didn't even try to get approval through the proper channels, display of the 10 commandments is perfectly acceptable, according to the Supreme Court.

Still think we're all Christians? The same kind of Christian?

Everyone in most "Muslim" countries isn't Muslim.

He can mention that all he likes.

The Supreme Court removes the Ten Commandments from court buildings, and Santa Claus can't parade in Rockville, Maryland anymore because it's offensive to non-Christians.

Still think we're all Christians? The same kind of Christian?

Atheists are the most persecuted group in America, in my opinion.

Most homosexuals can come "out of the closet" during their teenage years.

I'm a teenage atheist and I can't even imagine telling anyone.

Even the atheists among us.
Uncategorical hatred is a subtle form of beholding. If America hates Muslims then it is accurate to call it a religious nation on that basis alone, regardless of what else it believes in.

Atheists are the most persecuted group in America, in my opinion.

Most homosexuals can come "out of the closet" during their teenage years.

I'm a teenage atheist and I can't even imagine telling anyone.

I have serious reason to doubt that you would really be oppressed, unless you're living in a small town in the rural South.

I have serious reason to doubt that you would really be oppressed, unless you're living in a small town in the rural South.

I am living in a small town in the rural South.

I live in the Southwest corner of Virginia.

Uncategorical hatred is a subtle form of beholding. If America hates Muslims then it is accurate to call it a religious nation on that basis alone, regardless of what else it believes in.
Stop for a minute.

This is where I get peeved.

Let's say that I do want to annihilate Islam, and everyone Islamic.

I don't have to hate anyone in order to desire that. I only need look at it as a long term survival idea.

When the person working for Customs/Border Patrol question a Muslim, it's not because they "hate" them. Suspicion is there because events have shown that they are risks - quantifiably well-known risks. It has nothing to do with hate.

Your immediate qualification as "hate" is a smear, and a misdirection of the argument.

Stop for a minute.

This is where I get peeved.

Let's say that I do want to annihilate Islam, and everyone Islamic.

I don't have to hate anyone in order to desire that. I only need look at it as a long term survival idea.

When the person working for Customs/Border Patrol question a Muslim, it's not because they "hate" them. Suspicion is there because events have shown that they are risks - quantifiably well-known risks. It has nothing to do with hate.

Your immediate qualification as "hate" is a smear, and a misdirection of the argument.
Well, it's not an immediate qualification. I did throw the term at you earlier and it was happily accepted.

Anyway.

The point is this. If you make your decisions based on whether or not those around you hold to a specific belief structure, even when you view it in a negative light, these decisions are being driven by the religion in question. This is not the attitude of a secular society.

When your fear of Islam governs you, so too does the religion itself. In the light you have portrayed the USA, I would go so far as to call it an Islamic Antitheocracy.

Well, it's not an immediate qualification. I did throw the term at you earlier and it was happily accepted.

Anyway.

The point is this. If you make your decisions based on whether or not those around you hold to a specific belief structure, even when you view it in a negative light, these decisions are being driven by the religion in question. This is not the attitude of a secular society.

When your fear of Islam governs you, so too does the religion itself. In the light you have portrayed the USA, I would go so far as to call it an Islamic Antitheocracy.

No, driven by the actions of the religion. In which case, it's not necessarily an anti-Islamic theocracy.

I have a great deal to post on survival of a civilization in the modern age, but it will have to wait until tomorrow. But it does contain some of my thoughts on opposing other civilizations merely on the basis of survival, and not on any other ideas those civilizations may hold.

Atheists are the most persecuted group in America, in my opinion.

Most homosexuals can come "out of the closet" during their teenage years.

I'm a teenage atheist and I can't even imagine telling anyone.

Really? Where do you live?

The atheists I knew in small-town GA as a teen wouldn't stop telling everyone. Of course, as they got older, they stopped being so in-your-face about it. My homosexual friends, on the other hand, stayed in the closet until after high school - sometimes years after.

When the person working for Customs/Border Patrol question a Muslim, it's not because they "hate" them. Suspicion is there because events have shown that they are risks - quantifiably well-known risks. It has nothing to do with hate.

Incorrect. They can only be shown to be risks if they, themselves, have committed a crime.

I have a friend who happens to have the same name as a known terrorist. By your logic, my friend from Indiana who wouldn't hurt anyone has been "shown" to be a risk simply because he shares a common ethnic background with someone who has. Does that truly make sense to you?

Incorrect. They can only be shown to be risks if they, themselves, have committed a crime.

I have a friend who happens to have the same name as a known terrorist. By your logic, my friend from Indiana who wouldn't hurt anyone has been "shown" to be a risk simply because he shares a common ethnic background with someone who has. Does that truly make sense to you?
Yes it does.

Questioning someone at a border station requires NO probable cause. The simple whim of the border agent is all that is required. It's called a "judgment call".

If your name matches that of a known terrorist, it's perfectly fine to ask a few questions.

Or are you saying that the 9-11 Commission was wrong, and we should go back to the security methods in place before that date, where no one gets investigated for anything until they've already blown themselves and a few thousand other people up?

The Supreme Court removes the Ten Commandments from court buildings, and Santa Claus can't parade in Rockville, Maryland anymore because it's offensive to non-Christians.


If I was santa, I wouldn't want to go to rockville anyway.

Yes it does.

You're right. My friend who has never committed a crime or harmed anyone is automatically more dangerous than the redneck down the street who beat someone up last week just because he has an incredibly common name that a bad guy also has.

:rolleyes:

If your name matches that of a known terrorist, it's perfectly fine to ask a few questions.

...which is very different from stating that a person is a risk just because of said name. This statement does nothing at all to back up your statement that he has been shown to be a risk. Try again.

Edit:
Questioning someone at a border station requires NO probable cause. The simple whim of the border agent is all that is required. It's called a "judgment call".

Meanwhile, we aren't talking about a border station or a border agent. We are talking about every freaking time he gets on an airplane. So every time he wants to visit his family in Indiana, he gets the runaround.

Actually DK, you know what? Your logic is impeccable. I see the error of my ways now.

Of course, since you are, by your own logic, a rapist, I think I'll refrain from talking to you. I'm not very fond of rapists.

Really? So just because a statistically higher percentage of black men end up in prison, all black men are criminals? Are you really prepared to make that statement?
I hope that you are not expecting a reply too soon from LF? Apparently he has been deep sixed.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=495372

I hope that you are not expecting a reply too soon from LF? Apparently he has been deep sixed.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=495372

No skin off my back. =)

If I was santa, I wouldn't want to go to rockville anyway.

He'd go to Gaithersburg, MD instead.

IThat lot is not to be trusted ever again, since 911.
What lot? Middle Eastern pilots?

Looks like the Canadian government agrees with me
http://ww2.psepc-sppcc.gc.ca/national_security/counter-terrorism/Entities_e.asp

How many of those are Islamic organizations? The vast majority?
What do they agree with you on? The Canadian government says, "most
terrorists are Muslim". You say "most Muslims are [potential] terrorists".

Well your kind aren't to be trusted since the sacking of byzantium, the massacre at Acre and the various colonial wars fought foor good christian values.
He didn't say Muslims. BogMarsh was being intentionally vague, as usual.

Do you see any large scale wars fought by a Christian ruled (officially) nation for strictly religious reasons in recent history?
No, and I can't think of any such wars waged by Islamic Republics in recent history.

Mind you, the fact that there are Islamic Republics but not Christian Republics says a lot!

The people in charge think they are holding true to those Judeo-Christian values the United States was founded upon, so I would beg to differ.
Let's face it. The Republicans couldn't give a shit about Christian values. They just use it as a plank to relate to voters they have nothing in common with.

Correct. It's hard to say the U.S. doesn't have an official religion when our President mentions "OUR creator" every 3 words and his dad said that atheists shouldn't be considered citizens "because this is one nation under god."
Learn European and Middle Eastern history. You have no idea what an official state religion is.

Uncategorical hatred is a subtle form of beholding. If America hates Muslims then it is accurate to call it a religious nation on that basis alone, regardless of what else it believes in.
That would make it an anti-religious nation. Besides, Bush said that Islam is a religion of peace.

Let's say that I do want to annihilate Islam, and everyone Islamic.

I don't have to hate anyone in order to desire that. I only need look at it as a long term survival idea.

You don't need hate for that idea. Only insanity. Or a sense of the ridiculous, at best.

Really? So just because a statistically higher percentage of black men end up in prison, all black men are criminals? Are you really prepared to make that statement?



No, it means that *some* blacks definitely have a problem, and that problem should be addressed before they reach an age where they commit crimes. It also might point to problems with the legal system. What it does not do, is give us any information about the black ethnicity as a whole.


No, I'm not saying that in any way, BUT what I am saying is that when you have a group that IS the source of the majority of a certain crime (suicide bombings, terrorism, hijackings, etc.) search them all you want. When the general population of muslims/ islamists get tired of being singled out & searched they will take it upon them selves to POLICE themselves and report the offenders in their midst. It's called being a PRODUCTIVE member of society, when those who commit crimes hide amongst you TURN THEM IN, SEND THEM PACKING, AND MAKE IT OBVIOUS YOU WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR EXTREMIST ACTIONS. That is how you show that you do not agree w/ their ideology. I'm sick of the muslim community and their hollow claims that they don't support terrorism while they let terrorist groups hold positions in their governments. I'm sick of their claims while they provide aid, comfort, and anti AMerican sentiment in their mosques. I do not have any respect for you religion while you use it to call for violent jihad in the name of allah. I also have no respect for ANYONE that calls these terrorists "freedom fighters". People ONLY deserve freedom if they can use it responsibly. Those who abuse it deserve to lose their freedom.

Really? Where do you live?

The atheists I knew in small-town GA as a teen wouldn't stop telling everyone. Of course, as they got older, they stopped being so in-your-face about it. My homosexual friends, on the other hand, stayed in the closet until after high school - sometimes years after.

I live in the southwest corner of Virginia. When most people think of Virginia they think of the DC area and Norfolk. What they don't realize, however, is that the small corner of Virginia I speak of is about as rural and remote/redneck as you can imagine.

I have mentioned being an atheist to a few people who I only talk to very rarely.

The way America is, the Christian majority leaves the law "officially" that you're free to worship whatever you want. But you aren't as free to as you'd think. When I was in 4th grade, a preacher came to our school for a full-day seminar on how homosexuality is wrong and that we should all say no to it's "evil." In 9th grade a woman came to our English class telling us how when she went to Iran they ALL talk about killing America and that we should convert all muslims to "the right way."

Young children across America are taught by scare tactics to believe in Jesus. Any young child who questions this is usually sent to a "bible school" type place where they're brainwashed. I can best sum it up by posting Russell's Teapot theory.

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

*snip*

Wow, your rural corner of Virginia is a lot different from my rural corner of Michigan. We have a fair number of Christians here (mostly Catholics and Presbyterians) but I've never heard of anything like preachers going into a school. Also, most people my age I know are agnostic, with a few Christians and atheists sprinkled in. The only religion visible when I was in high school (6 years ago) was the before school prayer session a student group organized by the flagpole. My neice is in 1st grade this year, and I'm not sure if she's even heard of the concept of religion.

Wow, your rural corner of Virginia is a lot different from my rural corner of Michigan. We have a fair number of Christians here (mostly Catholics and Presbyterians) but I've never heard of anything like preachers going into a school. Also, most people my age I know are agnostic, with a few Christians and atheists sprinkled in. The only religion visible when I was in high school (6 years ago) was the before school prayer session a student group organized by the flagpole. My neice is in 1st grade this year, and I'm not sure if she's even heard of the concept of religion.

Wow, your rural area of Michigan is quite different from my...other corner of Michigan. We have a disproportionate amount of Wiccans and atheists in our Talented and Gifted class. But no preachers in school here. We have plenty of anarchists, but no preachers.

Edit: In no way is this supposed to mean that there is a positive correclation between Wiccans and anarchists.

The number of those who are followers of the extreme sect of Islam is hard to gauge. It's safe to say that the number is probably 10-15% of the Islamic population. That is a small percentage, but it is a large number when you realize that equals over 100 million people.

Not every Muslim is our enemy, but it appears that all of our enemies are Muslims.

Wow, your rural corner of Virginia is a lot different from my rural corner of Michigan. We have a fair number of Christians here (mostly Catholics and Presbyterians) but I've never heard of anything like preachers going into a school. Also, most people my age I know are agnostic, with a few Christians and atheists sprinkled in. The only religion visible when I was in high school (6 years ago) was the before school prayer session a student group organized by the flagpole. My neice is in 1st grade this year, and I'm not sure if she's even heard of the concept of religion.

I believe that my area is so extreme is that it's so remote. Most of the kids are just stupid. They're not overly Christian - they don't go to church. But they mention Jesus everyday. Wear Jesus shirts. Talk about how Jesus hates liberal fags. And tell everyone how god is a Dale Earnhardt fan.

I'm in highschool now. There's a very visable Christian athletic group in our school that all the jocks/cheerleaders are basically conscripted to: and if they said they didn't want to be in it, they'd be slated a liberal fag and persecuted just like any other person who doesn't give a flying fuck about religion.

The number of those who are followers of the extreme sect of Islam is hard to gauge. It's safe to say that the number is probably 10-15% of the Islamic population. That is a small percentage, but it is a large number when you realize that equals over 100 million people.

Not every Muslim is our enemy, but it appears that all of our enemies are Muslims.
The percentage is less. I really don't believe there is any one "extreme sect" as the extremists seem to come from various sects.

And not all our enemies are Muslims. The Oklahoma city bombers and Phineas Priesthood aren't...

Wow, you're rural area of Michigan is quite different from my...other corner of Michigan. We have a disproportionate amount of Wiccans and atheists in our Talented and Gifted class. But no preachers in school here. We have plenty of anarchists, but no preachers.

Edit: In no way is this supposed to mean that there is a positive correclation between Wiccans and anarchists.

Which part of Michigan do you live in? I live in a somewhat sparsely populated part of the state (Mount Pleasant), and things here are a bit more conservative than they are in more populous parts of the state.

When the general population of muslims/ islamists get tired of being singled out & searched they will take it upon them selves to POLICE themselves and report the offenders in their midst.
In the west, most Muslims have no more idea than you or me about the whereabouts or activities of terrorist schemers.

It's called being a PRODUCTIVE member of society, when those who commit crimes hide amongst you TURN THEM IN, SEND THEM PACKING, AND MAKE IT OBVIOUS YOU WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR EXTREMIST ACTIONS.
Again, terrorists tend to be quite secretive about their activities, even amongst other muslims.

That is how you show that you do not agree w/ their ideology. I'm sick of the muslim community and their hollow claims that they don't support terrorism while they let terrorist groups hold positions in their governments.
The muslims community often doesn't control the governments, even in the countries in question, let alone Muslims in the west. In the ME, sometimes they are brainwashed and other times they are bigots.

I'm sick of their claims while they provide aid, comfort, and anti AMerican sentiment in their mosques.
Some mosques are more extreme than others. Most of them don't preach violence against America, gays, etc...

I do not have any respect for you religion while you use it to call for violent jihad in the name of allah.
The twisted religion of terrorists. Not all of Islam.

I also have no respect for ANYONE that calls these terrorists "freedom fighters".
Right on!

Again, terrorists tend to be quite secretive about their activities, even amongst other muslims.

Correct. Despite some peoples ideas - not all muslims communicate with each other.

On a related note, I think we should screen anyone with a German accent more because they're all Nazi's.

And I'm still waiting for the Jews to apologize for killing Jesus.

Don't even get me started on the midgets.

On a related note, I think we should screen anyone with a German accent more because they're all Nazi's.

That's just silly. Nazis are no longer a threat. In WWII this would be reasonable.

Sarcasm is a bitch.

That's just silly. Nazis are no longer a threat. In WWII this would be reasonable.

Pff. Says you.

http://static.flickr.com/56/115718418_55160bd6a4_m.jpg