NationStates Jolt Archive

This woman is brave!!!! I agree with much of what she is saying but I think she falls into the trap of condemning all muslims for the attrocities of the minority. I agree that that minority is a problem that must be dealt with though.

You simply must watch this: http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null

I don't know how long the link will be up.

I'm glad there's dialogue of this sort going on in the Middle East.

I'm glad there's dialogue of this sort going on in the Middle East.

So am I... I was very surprised to see this.

This woman is brave!!!! I agree with much of what she is saying but I think she falls into the trap of condemning all muslims for the attrocities of the minority. I agree that that minority is a problem that must be dealt with though.

You simply must watch this: http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null

I don't know how long the link will be up.


The sad part is she just commited suicide . how long will they let her live in an Islamic country ?

It just illustrates the huge differences in cultures .

But she speaks the truth . Bless her for it...and she has the really big balls .

The sad part is she just commited suicide . how long will they let her live in an Islamic country ?

It just illustrates the huge differences in cultures .

But she speaks the truth . Bless her for it...and she has the really big balls .


I liked "You can believe in stones as long as you don't throw them at me"

"We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people" - What about the bombings in Haifa, March 22nd 1948, and others around that time?
Apologies if she was refering to more modern times.

"We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people" - What about the bombings in Haifa, March 22nd 1948, and others around that time?
Apologies if she was refering to more modern times.

Must be something she overlooked. besides we have see Christians bomb buildings because of religious beliefs too.

That was part of the problem I saw with her argument... it's like she is saying not a single Christian or Jew ever did anything wrong but Muslims as a whole are doing wrong all over the place always.

Other than that she made some excellent points and bravely said it on Arabic television while being called a heretic from the oh so mentally challenged person she was talking to.

Other than that she made some excellent points and bravely said it on Arabic television while being called a heretic from the oh so mentally challenged person she was talking to.

It was like living proof of her claim that they have a medieval attitude.

Didn't look like that guy was trying to cast somekind of spell on her with all that ridiculous hand waving?

Didn't look like that guy was trying to cast somekind of spell on her with all that ridiculous hand waving?

Begone, uncomfortable truth! The power of Christ (or Mohammed, even) compels you!

Nice to see that the 1st guy was actually listening to her. The second one was too ready to dismiss her as a heretic and unworthy of his time.

But yeah, she has elephant-sized brass plated, solid steel conojes to be willing to stand up like that. For what it's worth, she has my admiration and respect.

This woman is brave!!!! I agree with much of what she is saying but I think she falls into the trap of condemning all muslims for the attrocities of the minority. I agree that that minority is a problem that must be dealt with though.

You simply must watch this: http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null

I don't know how long the link will be up.

if she ruled an Islamic, Christian, Athiest or anything country that country would prosper, she rightly dismisses Religious squabblings with guns as barbaric and rightly she rightly sees that the best a human being can aim for is bettering the whole of humanity

if she ruled an Islamic, Christian, Athiest or anything country that country would prosper, she rightly dismisses Religious squabblings with guns as barbaric and rightly she rightly sees that the best a human being can aim for is bettering the whole of humanity


I'd vote for her just based on what she was saying here :cool:

She sure has a lot of courage, saying things like that.

I’m curious though, it appears to be an edited version – any possibility to find the full clip?

She sure has a lot of courage, saying things like that.

I’m curious though, it appears to be an edited version – any possibility to find the full clip?


someone emailed this link to me - I can try though

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Sultan

:)

oh yer fast - and I found this transcript: http://www.investorsinsight.com/wwnk/transcript.htm

I'd vote for her just based on what she was saying here :cool:

me to, me to

oh good - apparently she is in Los Angeles so she is a bit safer eh?

http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=783wmv&ak=null

Part 2 i think

or another interview, im not sure

http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=783wmv&ak=null

Part 2 i think

or another interview, im not sure

its previous to the one I posted but very good and both make good points about the attrocities commited by man

its previous to the one I posted but very good and both make good points about the attrocities commited by man

ah ok
very true they are.

SNIP

America is innocent from what happened to the Indians:confused:

her opponent does make some points about how the western education hasn't stopped murder then again they are too entirely different things and usually involve some reason unlike Islamic extremists I can’t understand why she didn’t mention this

Clever woman though a clear indication of how Muslims aren’t all radical clerics shouting [insert nasty word here] westerners

America is innocent from what happened to the Indians:confused:

her opponent does make some points about how the western education hasn't stopped murder then again they are too entirely different things and usually involve some reason unlike Islamic extremists I can’t understand why she didn’t mention this

Clever woman though a clear indication of how Muslims aren’t all radical clerics shouting [insert nasty word here] westerners

She was saying that the murder of the Native Americans happened during the colonisation, before the founding of the U.S.A.

Yeah I think he performed quite well, but he started sounding a bit angry towards the end.

Oh, and she's not a Muslim... :p

She was saying that the murder of the Native Americans happened during the colonisation, before the founding of the U.S.A.

but it also happend after though we Brits had to do most of the work *mutters about lazy Americans*

maybe he could of used that

perhaps neither of them wanted to acknowledge the attrocities performed by the people they are defending because then they might seem weak or have a less valid point if the other doesnt also acknowledge the same.


sad really - they both make themselves seem short sighted although Wafa Sultan gets my vote for asking the truely pertinent question which had to do with spreading religion at the sharp end of a sword.

oh yer fast - and I found this transcript: http://www.investorsinsight.com/wwnk/transcript.htm


in my favorites for when the Islamic world depress's me ...

but it also happend after though we Brits had to do most of the work *mutters about lazy Americans*

maybe he could of used that

I was thinking he could have talked about the widespread racism and civil rights abuses.

I was thinking he could have talked about the widespread racism and civil rights abuses.

What, and seen her verbally tear him apart for blatant and enormous hypocrisy? He may be crazy, but he isn't stupid.

What, and seen her verbally tear him apart for blatant and enormous hypocrisy? He may be crazy, but he isn't stupid.

But the whole debate was about them making statements and the other claiming hypocrisy. Anything he can do give examples of how "the west" isn't superior to Islam would only strengthen his case.

But the whole debate was about them making statements and the other claiming hypocrisy. Anything he can do give examples of how "the west" isn't superior to Islam would only strengthen his case.

Yeah, I suppose. But it would have given her an opening to claim that the West has stopped the human rights abuse and allows equal opportunities, while the Middle East most certainly doesn't.

Yeah, I suppose. But it would have given her an opening to claim that the West has stopped the human rights abuse and allows equal opportunities, while the Middle East most certainly doesn't.

True, but he hardly considered that when talking about the Native American genocide...

This woman is brave!!!! I agree with much of what she is saying but I think she falls into the trap of condemning all muslims for the attrocities of the minority. I agree that that minority is a problem that must be dealt with though.

You simply must watch this: http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null

I don't know how long the link will be up.

I guess she can speak that frankly since she is speaking from USA, not from the wilderness wherever Al Jazera is located. Oh and she also agrees with me that Islamic culture is backward. I loved how she compared jews with muslims....She should meet with Hirsi Ali....

I guess she can speak that frankly since she is speaking from USA, not from the wilderness wherever Al Jazera is located. Oh and she also agrees with me that Islamic culture is backward. I loved how she compared jews with muslims....She should meet with Hirsi Ali....


but it says alot that they actually allow her views to be debated on arabic television in the first place and this isnt an isolated incident. I believe every society gets more and more liberal as time goes on and I'm sure that the extreeme muslim societies will be no different.

The belief that we need to bomb them into seeing the world the same way we do is as flawed as those who wish to spread their religion using violence and I think that is the most logical conclusion to come to by listenign to both sides of the debate. Neither side is free of misjudgment or even savage barbarism, even today.

The best practice would be to show tolerance for other countries and allow them to work out their own problems.

but it says alot that they actually allow her views to be debated on arabic television in the first place and this isnt an isolated incident. I believe every society gets more and more liberal as time goes on and I'm sure that the extreeme muslim societies will be no different.
Well, firstly, Al-Jazeera is quite a liberal station. Obviously it will bring in viewpoints that you wouldn't hear on Western TV, but since the station isn't under control of any single government and too powerful to be censored these days, you can hear all sorts of criticism of both Arab politics and religion. This one was mainly chosen by whoever started the craze of distributing it because of its comparably harsh language.

Secondly, these sort of debates have a long history on Arab TV. Talkshows going at pretty much all topics are very common indeed. Just last month I watched a documentary about Egyptian TV, in which the (female) presenter had quite a go at a guy about abortion.

And finally...don't concentrate too much on religion. Much of modern Islam has been hijacked by way too orthodox, sometimes outright medieval, teachings. But that is not the problem in the Arab world (indeed, too orthodox religions tend to fail in free societies...see Catholicism) - the problem is that unelected and oppressive governments (ie Syria, Saudi Arabia etc) are playing about with it. First they outlawed pretty much all secular opposition, leaving those that are unhappy seeking refuge with religious groups having a political agenda. And now they're using religion to deflect problems away from themselves whenever they can and to portray themselves as protectors of Islam (no doubt to weaken the religious opposition to them they created), eg in the cartoon affair.
If you go down to the core of most of these things, you'll find that they have their roots in politics, not religion.

Either way, good on her for adding her two cents to the debate.

I guess she can speak that frankly since she is speaking from USA, not from the wilderness wherever Al Jazera is located. Oh and she also agrees with me that Islamic culture is backward. I loved how she compared jews with muslims....She should meet with Hirsi Ali....

Tell that to Hitoshi Igarashi.

Yeah, I suppose. But it would have given her an opening to claim that the West has stopped the human rights abuse and allows equal opportunities, while the Middle East most certainly doesn't.
The mistake about the Western world and the Current Islamic Extremist world.

The West Learns from their mistakes, learn from their crimes, and try to prevent it from happening again. They change because of what they realize is wrong.

The extremists believe that everything they do is right, no matter how wrong it really is.

The West 'Grew up', the extremists refuse too. We're fighting a bunch of immature people who believe they can get their way by forcing others. That by murdering one person, you make their neighbor convert. That is why they are wrong.

~snip~
And finally...don't concentrate too much on religion. Much of modern Islam has been hijacked by way too orthodox, sometimes outright medieval, teachings. But that is not the problem in the Arab world (indeed, too orthodox religions tend to fail in free societies...see Catholicism) - the problem is that unelected and oppressive governments (ie Syria, Saudi Arabia etc) are playing about with it. First they outlawed pretty much all secular opposition, leaving those that are unhappy seeking refuge with religious groups having a political agenda. And now they're using religion to deflect problems away from themselves whenever they can and to portray themselves as protectors of Islam (no doubt to weaken the religious opposition to them they created), eg in the cartoon affair.
If you go down to the core of most of these things, you'll find that they have their roots in politics, not religion.

"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is."- Muhatma Gandhi

Her "people should be called what they want, not what you want to call them" argument fits in nicely with my anti-USian stance too. :p