NationStates Jolt Archive

Is this the new Middle East Mrs Rice was talking about? Is this the "democracy" thousands of Iraqi people died and keep dieing for? Saddam was murdering to protect his dictatorship and now these people are killing for religion. Same result. I guess this shows 2 things. One is how it is wrong to force democracy down primitive country's throats and the other is how much "democracy" islamic culture is capable of.


Gays flee Iraq as Shia death squads find a new target

Evidence shows increase in number of executions as homosexuals plead for asylum in Britain

Jennifer Copestake
Sunday August 6, 2006
The Observer

Hardline Islamic insurgent groups in Iraq are targeting a new type of victim with the full protection of Iraqi law, The Observer can reveal. The country is seeing a sudden escalation of brutal attacks on what are being called the 'immorals' - homosexual men and children as young as 11 who have been forced into same-sex prostitution.

There is growing evidence that Shia militias have been killing men suspected of being gay and children who have been sold to criminal gangs to be sexually abused. The threat has led to a rapid increase in the numbers of Iraqi homosexuals now seeking asylum in the UK because it has become impossible for them to live safely in their own country.

Ali Hili runs the Iraqi LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender) group out of London. He used to have 40 volunteers in Iraq but says after recent raids by militia in Najaf, Karbala and Basra he has lost contact with half of them. They move to different safe houses to protect their identities, but their work is incredibly dangerous.

Eleven-year-old Ameer Hasoon al-Hasani was kidnapped by policemen from the front of his house last month. He was known in his district to have been forced into prostitution. His father Hassan told me he searched for his son for three days after his abduction, then found him, shot in the head. A copy of the death certificate confirms the cause of death.

Homosexuality is seen as so immoral that it qualifies as an 'honour killing' to murder someone who is gay - and the perpetrator can escape punishment. Section 111 of Iraq's penal code lays out protections for murder when people are acting against Islam.

'The government will do nothing to tackle this issue. It's really desperate when people get to the stage they're trading their children for money. They have no alternatives because there are no jobs,' Hili says.

Graphic photos obtained from Baghdad sources too frightened to identify themselves as having known a gay man, and seen by the Observer, show other gay Iraqis who have been executed. One shows two men, suspected of having a relationship, blindfolded with their hands tied behind their backs - guns at the ready behind their heads - awaiting execution. Another picture captured on a mobile phone shows a gay man being beaten to death. Yet another shows a corpse being dragged through the streets after his execution.

One photograph is of the mutilated, burnt body of 38-year-old Karar Oda from Sadr City. He was kidnapped by the Badr Brigade in mid-June. They work with the Ministry of Interior and are the informal armed wing of the Supreme Council of Islamic Revolution in Iraq, who make up the largest Shia bloc in the Iraq parliament. Oda's family were given an arrest warrant signed by the Ministry of Interior which said their son deserved to be arrested and killed for immorality as a homosexual. His body was found ten days later.

Dr Haider Jaber is currently seeking asylum in the UK after fleeing Iraq in 2004. He says the abuse started to escalate in his neighbourhood after the invasion. One night, walking home from work, he was surrounded by five men, who told him he had to become a heterosexual Muslim. He says they abused him for wearing jeans and a T-shirt with English writing, and told him he should adopt traditional robes. As a crowd gathered to watch, he was then beaten and kicked to the ground.

The threats continued. Armed militiamen broke into his family home and then his workplace looking for him. Jaber finally left the country in April. His partner, Ali. was not so lucky. Jaber learned of his Ali's murder a few days after leaving Iraq. 'They didn't send the body to the family to have a grave or a flower garden. They said he didn't deserve it because he was an animal,' he said.

Ibaa Alawi has also fled Iraq. A former employee at the British embassy in Baghdad, Alawi met Tony Blair on one of his surprise visits to Iraq. He said Blair was concerned about the safety of the Iraqis working there and praised their bravery. 'Tony Blair said the British government was thankful for our efforts and knew we were putting our lives at risk working for the British embassy in Baghdad.'

Alawi is upset the same government is not willing to help him out. He believes the Home Office will refuse him asylum because it would have to face up to the level of chaos in Iraq, and how much influence is being waged by radical Islamists - and face the fact that, for some, there is still no freedom in Iraq.

· Jennifer Copestake's film on homosexual executions in Iraq will be shown on More4 News on August 7 at 8pm

Great conclusions as always, because no gay has ever suffered persecution, nor any child sexual abuse, in a non-Muslim country. :rolleyes:

Are there still people out there who still think this was about allowing democracy? pfffffft

Great conclusions as always, because no gay has ever suffered persecution, nor any child sexual abuse, in a non-Muslim country. :rolleyes:

What are you? 10 years old? In which non-islamic country is it legal to kill raped children?

Great conclusions as always, because no gay has ever suffered persecution, nor any child sexual abuse, in a non-Muslim country. :rolleyes:

Of course the conclusion is a bit sucky - but then again:
non-muslim societies in which gays actually get executed ( and not jailed a la Oscar Wilde or beaten up by chavs ) are kinda hard to find.

What are you? 10 years old? In which non-islamic country is it legal to kill raped children?
In what country in the history of the world has 'what is legal' stopped the aforementioned things?

In what country in the history of the world has 'what is legal' stopped the aforementioned things?


You need a serious reality check if you think raped children is killed in the name of religion in the West. And there is still a difference between a criminal activity and the law actually allowing it. The way you see the world...No wonder why you say extremely silly things.

You need a serious reality check if you think raped children is killed in the name of religion in the West. And there is a still difference between a criminal activity and the law actually allowing it. The way you see the world...No wonder why you say extremely silly things.
The law does not 'allow' it, the law talks about cases where Islam is involved. Learn to read what you've posted yourself. It is a similar situation to the one in Afghanistan where Islamic law demanded the journalist be executed; he wasn't.

When you're setting up a new country you have to strike balances between what you want and what is to come. Your argument is essentially "OMG!!!! Islamic law 'allows' these things...and now it still does!!!!!1!1!!" Or, for those more familiar with your customary rants, "evil Muslims, they're evil, I can't hear you, they're evil, evil, evil"

The law does not 'allow' it, the law talks about cases where Islam is involved. Learn to read what you've posted yourself. It is a similar situation to the one in Afghanistan where Islamic law demanded the journalist be executed; he wasn't.

When you're setting up a new country you have to strike balances between what you want and what is to come. Your argument is essentially "OMG!!!! Islamic law 'allows' these things...and now it still does!!!!!1!1!!" Or, for those more familiar with your customary rants, "evil Muslims, they're evil, I can't hear you, they're evil, evil, evil"

Not only a very idiotic straw man but you are suggesting me to "learn" to read the article? I cant believe this. How old are you really? Read the red area again. It says the penal code (penal means the official state laws, not just the religious law) "lays out protections for murder when people are acting against Islam." And gays are acting against islam appearantly, since they are being murdered, so perpetrators are protected and hence "the perpetrator can escape punishment." It also talks about policemen kidnapping a raped boy and how that boy was found dead. I cant believe you couldnt understand this by yourself. Was your aim to prove you can not connect dots yourself?

Edit: Actually there wasnt even any dots to connect, everything was perfectly clear. I suggest you to read lots of books to improve your reading comprehension.

Not only a very idiotic straw man but you are suggesting me to "learn" to read the article? I cant believe this. How old are you really? Read the red area again. It says the penal code (penal means the official state laws, not just the religious law) "lays out protections for murder when people are acting against Islam." And gays are acting against islam appearantly, since they are being murdered, so perpetrators are protected and hence "the perpetrator can escape punishment." It also talks about policemen kidnapping a raped boy and how that boy was found dead. I cant believe you couldnt understand this by yourself. Was your aim to prove you can not connect dots yourself?
How amusing it is to be called young by someone with the ability to insult of a five year old child. :)

So, essentially, your point is that in a lawless society still rebuilding after a war there is lawlessness and disorder? Would you like a golden star for your answer?

How amusing it is to be called young by someone with the ability to insult of a five year old child. :)

So, essentially, your point is that in a lawless society still rebuilding after a war there is lawlessness and disorder? Would you like a golden star for your answer?

Look up what lawless means in dictionary. If they have a penal code (newly drafted) it doesnt mean they are lawless, does it?

What the hell kind of moron would live in Iraq, or any muslim country if he or she was gay?!?

Time to get moving! :p

Can't we all be friends? It would be so much nicer don't you think?

Look up what lawless means in dictionary. If they have a penal code (newly drafted) it doesnt mean they are lawless, does it?
So you're actually claiming that Iraqi law is working well and democracy is thriving?

So you're actually claiming that Iraqi law is working well and democracy is thriving?

No, it's still your lack of reading comprehension :)

No, it's still your lack of reading comprehension :)
Clarify it for me then.

Your points:
Number 1: We shouldn't try to spread democracy because it leads to lawlessness, chaos and deaths.
Number 2: The law is killing people.

Can you say 'contradiction', young friend?

Clarify it for me then.

Your points:
Number 1: We shouldn't try to spread democracy because it leads to lawlessness, chaos and deaths.
Number 2: The law is killing people.

Can you say 'contradiction', young friend?

I didnt say democracy leads to lawlessness and chaos in my point. Please learn what quotations mean. Or maybe your lack of reading comprehension again? But I have neither the patience nor the will to explain to you.

I didnt say democracy leads to lawlessness and chaos in my point. Please learn what quotations mean. Or maybe your lack of reading comprehension again? But I have neither the patience nor the will to explain to you.
Your two points again, since you have such a big issue over 'reading comprehension'.
One is how it is wrong to force democracy down primitive country's throats and the other is how much "democracy" islamic culture is capable of.
Your words or not?

Here you make the point that 'it is incapable of democracy' because it is a 'primitive culture'.
In which non-islamic country is it legal to kill raped children?
While here we start on the "but it's the law!!!!111!!!!" argument.

So, which point are you trying to make? Is it lawless and chaotic, or lawful and evil?

Your two points again, since you have such a big issue over 'reading comprehension'.

Your words or not?

Here you make the point that 'it is incapable of democracy' because it is a 'primitive culture'.

While here we start on the "but it's the law!!!!111!!!!" argument.

So, which point are you trying to make? Is it lawless and chaotic, or lawful and evil?

Is there anything referring to a state of lawlessness in the quotes you made or in the whole OP? I've made my point. It's you who has to choose to understand which one I made. Btw did you also imagine me saying "lawful and evil" as well as if I attached evil in any of my posts? :)

Is there anything referring to a state of lawlessness in the quotes you made or in the whole OP?
Oh, I've misunderstood then. Please enlighten me as to what exactly this did mean.
One is how it is wrong to force democracy down primitive country's throats and the other is how much "democracy" islamic culture is capable of.

The D&D alignment system really won't help you in this argument. The issue is that Iraq law has basically said "Hands off" To people who murder homosexuals or children forced into same sex prostitution, and now violent gangs are hunting down suspected homosexuals, as the law does nothing. It's not a state of lawlessness, it's a state where the law has descided that there is a group of people it doesn't care about, and would even like to see murdered.
the article is saying that Iraq is descending into a theocracy. For people who disagree with islam, that is a very bad thing.
It is further stating that the UK would possibly abandon many people to their fate in Iraq in order to keep from drawing attention to their failure.

Oh, I've misunderstood then. Please enlighten me as to what exactly this did mean.

I dare not because I'm afraid you will misunderstand my explanation as well. Perhaps you will understand in the course of this debate with other people. :)

It's a pity too. Because all other Democracies have become instant paradises of absolute equality upon creation. Clearly the fact that Iraq needs to take time to evolve the will of it's people to uphold the ideals of it's charter is some sort of anomaly.

*tries to keep a straight face*

Is this the new Middle East Mrs Rice was talking about?
If you want to refer to the US sec of state with respect, just call her Rice. Or Condoleeza Rice (like, there aren't that many Condoleezas in the world) or just Condy. Referring to her marital status doesn't constitute respect, particularly in this context.

Apart from that, I've got nothing to say. It's a lousy thread starter, since it puts no position, and the only question it asks is a rhetorical one: no, almost no-one here will try to defend the Iraq war, democracy and Sharia law at it's worst, all at the same time.
You have set a very low standard for debate, and it probably won't be long before your thread is locked.

It's a pity too. Because all other Democracies have become instant paradises of absolute equality upon creation. Clearly the fact that Iraq needs to take time to evolve the will of it's people to uphold the ideals of it's charter is some sort of anomaly.

*tries to keep a straight face*


Of course, countries actually have ideals, rather than interests...

It's a pity too. Because all other Democracies have become instant paradises of absolute equality upon creation. Clearly the fact that Iraq needs to take time to evolve the will of it's people to uphold the ideals of it's charter is some sort of anomaly.

*tries to keep a straight face*

Yes...For example, when Poland switched to Democracy, there were killings of raped children.

*tries to keep a straight face*

*tries to keep a straight face*
*Tickles LG*

*offers feather to Philosopy*

*offers feather to Philosopy*
*Takes feather and continues tickling*

If you want to refer to the US sec of state with respect, just call her Rice. Or Condoleeza Rice (like, there aren't that many Condoleezas in the world) or just Condy. Referring to her marital status doesn't constitute respect, particularly in this context.


Because she's worthy of our respect. :rolleyes:

Which is besides the point--acknowledging marital status when referring to a married woman is quite normal and far from disrespectful in many places. Ms sounds so corny. Rice sounds like a food product. And Condoleeza is just a silly name.

Because she's worthy of our respect. :rolleyes:

Which is besides the point--acknowledging marital status when referring to a married woman is quite normal and far from disrespectful in many places. Ms sounds so corny. Rice sounds like a food product. And Condoleeza is just a silly name.

It was a stupid comment to make...You shouldnt have dignified it with an answer.

And Condoleeza is just a silly name.
:p

Yes...For example, when Poland switched to Democracy, there were killings of raped children.

*tries to keep a straight face*

Don't be silly. Who would keep sex tourism business open? :p

*Tickles LG*

AHHH HAHAHAHA!!! :D

Don't be silly. Who would keep sex tourism business open? :p

:p Poles!
Mostly export business...
*leers at certain persons in the street*

Don't be silly. Who would keep sex tourism business open? :p

Yes and the state allowed that because it was the christian thing to do, right? Are you still trying to keep a straight face? Please let go and laugh, you are being quite silly and ridiculous. :D

Yes and the state allowed that because it was the christian thing to do, right? Are you still trying to keep a straight face? Please let go and laugh, you are being quite silly and ridiculous. :D

Is looking the other way while illegal prostitution of children is occurring any less disgusting for a government to do?

let's try to curve back toward the point which is: Democracies don't instantly or automatically become havens for decency and equality. A democracy is nothing more or less than a government that reflects the will of the people. Even a representative government that is designed to protect against tyranny of the majority is at the mercy of the bias of the representatives in power.

Just because Iraq's laws are uncivilized by our standards doesn't mean Democracy is a lost cause or the nation is degenerating into a theocracy. It means that the will of the people to protect their rights has yet to supercede their religious bias. These things take time.

Is looking the other way while illegal prostitution of children is occurring any less disgusting for a government to do?

let's try to curve back toward the point which is: Democracies don't instantly or automatically become havens for decency and equality. A democracy is nothing more or less than a government that reflects the will of the people. Even a representative government that is designed to protect against tyranny of the majority is at the mercy of the bias of the representatives in power.

Just because Iraq's laws are uncivilized by our standards doesn't mean Democracy is a lost cause or the nation is degenerating into a theocracy.

We've plenty of other reasons for believing so.
Exhibit one: large number of fundie-votes.
Exhibit two: lack of islamic arabic countries with democracy.
Exhibit three: can't have democracy without the deimos wanting it.

It means that the will of the people to protect their rights has yet to supercede their religious bias. These things take time.

What makes you think that that will ever change?
Heck, I don't think that YOUR rights should triumph MY religious bias.
Why should the Iraqis come to the conclusion you wish them to reach?

Is looking the other way while illegal prostitution of children is occurring any less disgusting for a government to do?


Links that Polish goverment was doing this? Links that the officials doing this werent punished?


let's try to curve back toward the point which is: Democracies don't instantly or automatically become havens for decency and equality. A democracy is nothing more or less than a government that reflects the will of the people. Even a representative government that is designed to protect against tyranny of the majority is at the mercy of the bias of the representatives in power.


Dont genarelize. Eastern Europe managed the transition in a quite civilized and fast manner. Besides, not killing raped children isnt asking for "havens for decency and equality". It is asking for sanity. Dont compare apples and oranges to excuse barbaric activities.


Just because Iraq's laws are uncivilized by our standards doesn't mean Democracy is a lost cause or the nation is degenerating into a theocracy. It means that the will of the people to protect their rights has yet to supercede their religious bias. These things take time.

This is a silly argument to make. But I guess it is also a relative one. You might think that not to kill raped children is a thing that should take time but I dont. And you are also speculating that Iraq will change these laws in time. It is nothing but an unsupported wish. Make your argument if they do change or at least there is an indication that they will. The signs currently are radical islam is strengthining there.

Heck, I don't think that YOUR rights should triumph MY religious bias.


But they do! *does the happy dance!* :D

It's really pretty simple: Global economy. As all other religions, Islam must evolve if it's members wish to remain part of the modern world. Already nations like Iran feel the tensions between modernism and fundamentalism. Sooner or later, Islam will evolve. Hell, the only reason Islam hasn't evolved more than it has is because of oil.

But they do! *does the happy dance!* :D
They don't.
If the political majority says so, you having rights is contingent upon you having the same religion as us.



It's really pretty simple: Global economy. As all other religions, Islam must evolve if it's members wish to remain part of the modern world. Already nations like Iran feel the tensions between modernism and fundamentalism. Sooner or later, Islam will evolve. Hell, the only reason Islam hasn't evolved more than it has is because of oil.

Yeah. Sure. I guess Islam in Bangladesh is stuck where it is because Bangladesh is awash in oil?
And more to the point: fundamentalism itself is the result of modernism.

Links that Polish goverment was doing this? Links that the officials doing this werent punished?



Dont genarelize. Eastern Europe managed the transition in a quite civilized and fast manner. Besides, not killing raped children isnt asking for "havens for decency and equality". It is asking for sanity. Dont compare apples and oranges to excuse barbaric activities.



This is a silly argument to make. But I guess it is also a relative one. You might think that not to kill raped children is a thing that should take time but I dont. And you are also speculating that Iraq will change these laws in time. It is nothing but an unsupported wish. Make your argument if they do change or at least there is an indication that they will. The signs currently are radical islam is strengthining there.


I can't stand thread dissection. http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/crazy.gif

Poland: Subject for another day. I'm not about to google for that disgustiong crap. CNN did a special about child prostitution in Eastern Europe, however. If it interests you, maybe it'll help you find it. It certainly doesn't interest me.

Eastern European Democracies: They WANTED Democracies. They voted out their communist leadership in legitimate elections and took their economic lumps. Shiite Muslims are highly biased toward sharia law. It was bound to show up in the democratic foundation of a predominantly shiite muslim nation. Especially considering the atrocities the sunnis inflicted on them under Saddam's government.

On Democratic evolution and barbaric laws: You don't like the fact that the iraqi laws have a loophole for murderers who kill in the name of Islam? You don't like the fact that children who have beenraped have been killed by islamic fundamentalists and gone unprosecuted bythe Iraqi government because of that loophole? Tough titty. It's not your country. It's not your democracy and they aren't your people. Your morality has as little place in their culture as it does in any other but your own. These people will fight for their rights and earn their freedoms on THEIR terms, not yours. And those rights and freedoms won't have meaning for them until they fight for them.

They don't.
If the political majority says so, you having rights is contingent upon you having the same religion as us.

In the United States, they do. Which is convenient as that's where I live. The political majority is bound by the First Amendment.

*keeps dancing*

*keeps dancing*
*Whacks LG with rolled up newspaper*

No dancing.

*Whacks LG with rolled up newspaper*

No dancing.

OW!

*keeps dancing* http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/dancing.gif

OW!

*keeps dancing* http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/dancing.gif
*Eats banana man*

*Starts to take off belt*

I can't stand thread dissection. http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/crazy.gif

Poland: Subject for another day. I'm not about to google for that disgustiong crap. CNN did a special about child prostitution in Eastern Europe, however. If it interests you, maybe it'll help you find it. It certainly doesn't interest me.


If it doesnt interest you, you shouldnt have brought it up at the first place.


Eastern European Democracies: They WANTED Democracies. They voted out their communist leadership in legitimate elections and took their economic lumps.


No Shit. :rolleyes: That was a point I was making. People should want change instead of being forced. Read the OP.


Shiite Muslims are highly biased toward sharia law. It was bound to show up in the democratic foundation of a predominantly shiite muslim nation. Especially considering the atrocities the sunnis inflicted on them under Saddam's government.

On Democratic evolution and barbaric laws: You don't like the fact that the iraqi laws have a loophole for murderers who kill in the name of Islam? You don't like the fact that children who have beenraped have been killed by islamic fundamentalists and gone unprosecuted bythe Iraqi government because of that loophole? Tough titty. It's not your country. It's not your democracy and they aren't your people. Your morality has as little place in their culture as it does in any other but your own. These people will fight for their rights and earn their freedoms on THEIR terms, not yours. And those rights and freedoms won't have meaning for them until they fight for them.

Yes I actually dont really care about those people as in feel sorry for them. When I care it is usually out of sorta obligation, not to feel guilty of not doing the right thing (as in if I had any power to change things).I know it's not my terms or my country but I still have the right to criticise it and that's the point of this thread. I'm especially criticising it since these people are importing their culture into Europe via mass immigration. It is you who are imagining that I'm trying to dictate something there. I am not and I dont have the power anyway. Or are you suggesting that people should criticise only their countries, which is ridiculous?

Or are you suggesting that people should criticise only their countries, which is ridiculous?

I'm suggesting that if people spent a tenth the time actually trying to make their world better as they spend bitching about how screwed up things are, there would be a lot less to bitch about. :p

As for muslims immigrating to Europe; Best thing for them. Best thing for Europe too.

Wait, you mean to tell me dictatorship works better in Iraq than democracy? I shocked, really:rolleyes:

*Eats banana man*

*Starts to take off belt*

http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/escape.gif

stupid muslims, still living in the tenth century. really, we need to wipe islam of the face of the planet. and i said ISLAM, not MUSLIMS, so they should just all be coverted. and the kabba must be destroyed.

Honestly, we can not allow a religion allowing, let alone encouraging such acts, to exist.

As for muslims immigrating to Europe; Best thing for them. Best thing for Europe too.
It what way exactly? Seems to me there would be a lot more problems than good to come out of that.

It what way exactly? Seems to me there would be a lot more problems than good to come out of that.

Temporarily. It'll pass.

Temporarily. It'll pass.
Oh I see. So Europe should go through unnecessary hardship and strife because everyone wants to be PC. But dont worry it will "pass" just at a later time and date that will be announced later:rolleyes:

Oh I see. So Europe should go through unnecessary hardship and strife because everyone wants to be PC. But dont worry it will "pass" just at a later time and date that will be announced later:rolleyes:

Yes. It'll make Europe better in the long run. :)

Yes. It'll make Europe better in the long run. :)
whatever you say sport

whatever you say sport
Are you going to tie his kangaroo down?

Are you going to tie his kangaroo down?

Kinky. :)

One is how it is wrong to force democracy down primitive country's throats and the other is how much "democracy" islamic culture is capable of.

stupid muslims, still living in the tenth century. really, we need to wipe islam of the face of the planet. and i said ISLAM, not MUSLIMS, so they should just all be coverted. and the kabba must be destroyed.

Honestly, we can not allow a religion allowing, let alone encouraging such acts, to exist.

:rolleyes: :headbang:

http://limewoody.wordpress.com/files/2006/03/aw_jeez_not_this_shit_again2.jpg

In the United States, they do. Which is convenient as that's where I live. The political majority is bound by the First Amendment.

*keeps dancing*

If you can make 'em, you can break 'em.

And the Law says whatever the Executive says it says.


*orders LG's kids to be burned at the stake for dancing on the Holy Day of... erm.... Zensunni porkfest*

Well, I guess Bush can wave his "Mission Accomplished" banner around now. At least some country shares his views on homosexuality...

Yes. It'll make Europe better in the long run. :)
You really must be living in a complete fantasy world. Look at what muslims have brought to Europe - rape, murder, religious fundamentalism, terrorism. I would really like to know how letting these 'people' in will honestly be good for Europe. I could do with a laugh.

You really must be living in a complete fantasy world. Look at what muslims have brought to Europe - rape, murder, religious fundamentalism, terrorism. I would really like to know how letting these 'people' in will honestly be good for Europe.

Because incidents of rape and murder and religious fundamentalism were completely unknown in Europe until dem Muslims arrived, right?

Because incidents of rape and murder and religious fundamentalism were completely unknown in Europe until dem Muslims arrived, right?
No, but the muslims have more of a tendency for it and whenever they infest a town the place turns to shit. Try living in a town with a large population of them and you'll see what I mean.

No, but the muslims have more of a tendency for it. Try living in a town with a large population of them and you'll see what I mean.

Yay for blanket statements! 90% of all violent crimes are committed by men. I think we should prohibit men from immigrating.

You really must be living in a complete fantasy world. Look at what muslims have brought to Europe - rape, murder, religious fundamentalism, terrorism. I would really like to know how letting these 'people' in will honestly be good for Europe. I could do with a laugh.Englishwomen were carrying bags of stones to defend themselves against rapists long before a muslim ever set foot on the British Isles. Murder and religious fundamentalism were known well before then too. Perhaps the Romans are to blame for that. As for terrorism, how many terror attacks have been perpetrated by the IRA and how many by muslim terrorists in England?
Actually, do you even know who brought terrorism to the world, much less Europe? It was a Frenchman by the name of Robespierre.

No, but the muslims have more of a tendency for it and whenever they infest a town the place turns to shit. Try living in a town with a large population of them and you'll see what I mean.I have and I don't see what you mean.

No, but the muslims have more of a tendency for it and whenever they infest a town the place turns to shit. Try living in a town with a large population of them and you'll see what I mean.

Ok....spot the problem with the above. Winner gets a free anti nazi league brick.

So you're actually claiming that Iraqi law is working well and democracy is thriving?

The law works pretty well here in the US, and democracy is thriving, but people still get killed on the street - for far less than being gay.

Your story is recounting murders, not legitimate executions at the hands of an officially constituted court.

Therefore, they are crimes - and perhaps the government is putting a low priority on finding the culprits because there is so much sectarian violence already going on.

People are being killed there for less.

Are you saying that somehow, the US is saying that everything in Iraq is as stable and functional as, say, Ames, Iowa? Really? Show me the link.

Is this the new Middle East Mrs Rice was talking about? Is this the "democracy" thousands of Iraqi people died and keep dieing for? Saddam was murdering to protect his dictatorship and now these people are killing for religion. Same result. I guess this shows 2 things. One is how it is wrong to force democracy down primitive country's throats and the other is how much "democracy" islamic culture is capable of.

Honor killings are 3b1l. I am sorry, but I cannot support that type of murder... or any type (abortion is not murder in this case. It is, IMHO, the removal of a tumor...)

Also, forced prostitution is 3b1l too.

Englishwomen were carrying bags of stones to defend themselves against rapists long before a muslim ever set foot on the British Isles. Murder and religious fundamentalism were known well before then too. Perhaps the Romans are to blame for that. As for terrorism, how many terror attacks have been perpetrated by the IRA and how many by muslim terrorists in England?
Actually, do you even know who brought terrorism to the world, much less Europe? It was a Frenchman by the name of Robespierre.
The difference is, rape has become socially unacceptable in mainstream British society. While among muslims, the victims are obviously sluts who deserved what they got (Particularly if they're white and non-muslim). Religious fundamentalism among the indiginous population is almost non-existant here now. As for the IRA, things have blown over for now. I don't want to introduce another batch of terrorists to society when we've had enough problems dealing with the ones who were already causing problems.

The law works pretty well here in the US, and democracy is thriving, but people still get killed on the street - for far less than being gay.

Your story is recounting murders, not legitimate executions at the hands of an officially constituted court.

Therefore, they are crimes - and perhaps the government is putting a low priority on finding the culprits because there is so much sectarian violence already going on.

People are being killed there for less.

Are you saying that somehow, the US is saying that everything in Iraq is as stable and functional as, say, Ames, Iowa? Really? Show me the link.
Was that actually aimed at me? I think we're saying basically the same thing. I was disagreeing with My Nordland's OP...

Sounds like America.

Heil Mein Fuhrer.

In what country in the history of the world has 'what is legal' stopped the aforementioned things?
It sure as hell reduces them. What percentage of US gays are murdered compared with gays in Muslim nations? Gay bashers over here know that they will be punished if caught. Most potential gay bashers don't want to go to prison and possibly end up tossing some guy's salad.

It sure as hell reduces them. What percentage of US gays are murdered compared with gays in Muslim nations? Gay bashers over here know that they will be punished if caught. Most potential gay bashers don't want to go to prison and possibly end up tossing some guy's salad.

I guess all those people who defend an Islamic nation's right to use Sharia as the basis for their law are going to be surprised that it calls for the stoning to death of homosexuals.

Quite unlike extrajudicial killings by secret militias, that is out in the open, and blessed by both a nation's laws and its religion.

Maybe the extrajudicial killings are taking place in Iraq because the current Iraqi government doesn't have a law (like other sharia countries) that call for the killing of homosexuals.

I guess all those people who defend an Islamic nation's right to use Sharia as the basis for their law are going to be surprised that it calls for the stoning to death of homosexuals.

If its not my nation, and the majority of the people in that nation want it, then who am I to say no?

Besides, our nation is trying to incorporate a Holy law, who are we to even talk?

Am I the only one who bothered to read the article?


The article mentions no where that it is legal to murder raped children, that is explicity forced to have sex with someone against there will. It says it is legal to kill boys who are victims of child abuse(such as having sex with a minor) by an older man because it is against islam. If that was true, those US soldiers on trial for gang-raping that girl couldn't be convicted under Iraqi law as many in Iraq want them too.

That said it is still awful that these rogue death squads have extended their victims from Shiite and Sunnis to homosexuals and children. However probably wouldnt matter if these actions were illegal as the Iraqi government is still unable to control these militias.

More signs that Freedom and Democracy are being brought to the Liberated Iraqi People.

If its not my nation, and the majority of the people in that nation want it, then who am I to say no?

Besides, our nation is trying to incorporate a Holy law, who are we to even talk?

Which Holy Law would that be?

Besides, the best thing about Sharia law in someone else's country is that you can eternally call them jerks.

Great conclusions as always, because no gay has ever suffered persecution, nor any child sexual abuse, in a non-Muslim country. :rolleyes:
Or more to the point, like gays weren't killed by Saddam, as well as women and children.

Yeah it is a shame that a gayboy was beaten to death, but these occasional human rights violations do happen. Execution for knowing the wonders of gaiety is perhaps a little extreme but hey who are we to tell the free iraqis what to do as long as they do it in a humane fashion. I am totally against the beating to death thing. That is wrong to do to anybody even an abomination.

Which Holy Law would that be?

Between gays, abortion, and stem cells, theres alot of material.

Or more to the point, like gays weren't killed by Saddam, as well as women and children.

Iraq was a secular nation. He didnt kill people because of his religion.

You dont spread Democracy through the barrel of the gun, you spread it through ideas, and if the country dosent want democracy, then let it be, because thats what Democracy is all about, the choice. The evil poop throwing monkey some call "Bush" dosent seem to understand that, much of anything else....

Yeah yeah yeah that is a bunch of hooey! Everybody wants democracy. Nobody except perhaps those who benefit from a dictatorship want dictatorship. Now we can all argue about whether it is good or bad policy to execute the gay but we should never suppose that people really do not want democracy.

Now we can all argue about whether it is good or bad policy to execute the gay
Oh... I wonder which one of those is it is. :rolleyes:
Execute gay people... good? Or bad?

No, but the muslims have more of a tendency for it and whenever they infest a town the place turns to shit. Try living in a town with a large population of them and you'll see what I mean.

Thanks, -Somewhere- for providing me with a concrete example of something that will improve in Europe with a little cultural integration; an end to people like you. :)

Am I the only one who bothered to read the article?


The article mentions no where that it is legal to murder raped children, that is explicity forced to have sex with someone against there will. It says it is legal to kill boys who are victims of child abuse(such as having sex with a minor) by an older man because it is against islam. If that was true, those US soldiers on trial for gang-raping that girl couldn't be convicted under Iraqi law as many in Iraq want them too.

That said it is still awful that these rogue death squads have extended their victims from Shiite and Sunnis to homosexuals and children. However probably wouldnt matter if these actions were illegal as the Iraqi government is still unable to control these militias.

On the contrary, just because they kill the rape victims doesn't make it any safer to be the rapist. They kill them too. *nod*

Oh... I wonder which one of those is it is. :rolleyes:
Execute gay people... good? Or bad?

The Iraqis are not bothered by it so I guess it is good in Iraq. I am sure that in many other countries it is considered bad so it is bad there. The people should be free to democratically choose laws that they are happy with so long as human rights are not violated. I certainly do not think anybody has the human right to well umm you know do icky pervie things.

Is this the new Middle East Mrs Rice was talking about? Is this the "democracy" thousands of Iraqi people died and keep dieing for? Saddam was murdering to protect his dictatorship and now these people are killing for religion. Same result. I guess this shows 2 things. One is how it is wrong to force democracy down primitive country's throats and the other is how much "democracy" islamic culture is capable of.
Every culture is hung up on something, Nordy, in Iraq it's gays, and in America it's....um, well come to think of it, anything in America goes these days.

At least the people of Iraq (the closet gays included) have hope in the future. That's something they never had under Saddam.

<snip>

As for muslims immigrating to Europe; Best thing for them. Best thing for Europe too.


AHAHAHHAAHHA.....ROFLMAO!!! :rolleyes:

Temporarily. It'll pass.

ROFLMAO...2 in a row!!!! HAHAHHAHA

Oh I see. So Europe should go through unnecessary hardship and strife because everyone wants to be PC. But dont worry it will "pass" just at a later time and date that will be announced later:rolleyes:

Not everyone. Just this marginal fringe people like LUNATIC goofballs....

Yes. It'll make Europe better in the long run. :)

Is this the Prozac kicking in?

Yay for blanket statements! 90% of all violent crimes are committed by men. I think we should prohibit men from immigrating.

Women need men to reproduce. We dont need muslims for anything....

Englishwomen were carrying bags of stones to defend themselves against rapists long before a muslim ever set foot on the British Isles. Murder and religious fundamentalism were known well before then too. Perhaps the Romans are to blame for that. As for terrorism, how many terror attacks have been perpetrated by the IRA and how many by muslim terrorists in England?
Actually, do you even know who brought terrorism to the world, much less Europe? It was a Frenchman by the name of Robespierre.

Interesting thing that you mention past. Just because there were rapes in large numbers in past means that they should welcome a minority with high rape rates (overrepresented in overall rapes and a much higher rate than the native population)? If you are going to forget the fact that things you said are no longer the norm, I guess by your logic it should be ok to kill jews in Germany because in the past it has been done so.

Am I the only one who bothered to read the article?


The article mentions no where that it is legal to murder raped children, that is explicity forced to have sex with someone against there will. It says it is legal to kill boys who are victims of child abuse(such as having sex with a minor) by an older man because it is against islam. If that was true, those US soldiers on trial for gang-raping that girl couldn't be convicted under Iraqi law as many in Iraq want them too.

That said it is still awful that these rogue death squads have extended their victims from Shiite and Sunnis to homosexuals and children. However probably wouldnt matter if these actions were illegal as the Iraqi government is still unable to control these militias.

Victims of child abuse are raped children. Does it really matter if I said raped male children instead of raped children? I guess the first situation is less "awful" for you since you are the only one who bothered to read the article. :rolleyes:

A sevenfold post? Niiice...

A sevenfold post? Niiice...

Shit....It'd be even better if the whole page was mine...How many posts are needed for that?

Women need men to reproduce. We dont need muslims for anything....

There are already plenty of men in Europe and the rest of the world. Besides, the only purpose of reproduction for a nation is to increase the population; immigration does exactly the same thing.

Shit....It'd be even better if the whole page was mine...How many posts are needed for that?

If that's what you wish to accomplish:
1. Turn off the comp
2. Grab a pen and some paper
3. Start writing.
See? No need to spout racist nonsense on the intarweb.

(edit:
Oh, and:
Women need men to reproduce. We dont need muslims for anything....

Women only need sperm to reproduce. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vitro_fertilization))

There are already plenty of men in Europe and the rest of the world. Besides, the only purpose of reproduction for a nation is to increase the population; immigration does exactly the same thing.

The difference is the quality of the people...

If that's what you wish to accomplish:
1. Turn off the comp
2. Grab a pen and some paper
3. Start writing.
See? No need to spout racist nonsense on the intarweb.

(edit:
Oh, and:


Women only need sperm to reproduce. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vitro_fertilization))

And they need men to get sperms. Besides, str8/bi women still need men to have sex. Maybe in the future, when sperm can be artificially produced, lesbian women may set up their own country or in the far future, their own planet. I'm even sure there's a sci-fi book about this, a women planet.