NationStates Jolt Archive

All I can say is, AWESOME! It's good to hear allies' troop accounts of heroism. I've heard tons of accounts of USGIs from Iraq and A-stan, but nothing so far from the Israelis, despite being at this longer than we have. Awesome...

I've never heard of counts of heroism under fire from Hezzbollah. Probably because

A) They turnover rapidly
B)They are cowards
C)They're still debating M16 vs akm


'We are going to win big'

Soldier recounts Israeli heroism in Lebanon

By Ryan Jones
July 26, 2006

A young IDF soldier wounded during fierce fighting in southern Lebanon Wednesday recounted the tremendous courage and heroism displayed by his comrades, and said morale and a desire for absolute victory were as high as ever.

Sergeant Ram Boneh, 20, told Ynet of outstanding bravery on the part of his fellow IDF soldiers when they saw their friends coming under intense Hizb'allah fire while entering the town of Bint Jbeil during the early morning hours.

"Soldiers went in to get their friends; they didn’t think a bullet could hit them, and they gave their all for one another."

Eight Israeli soldiers ended up losing their lives, and another 22, including Boneh, were wounded as the IDF engaged the hundreds of Hizb'allah terrorists believed to be holed up in Bint Jbeil.

Despite the heavy casualties, Boneh said morale had actually increased throughout the day.

"You’d be surprised, but even after a day like today, morale was soaring. We must not be discouraged."

Sgt. Boneh, who suffered light shrapnel wounds, was clearly infected by that deep desire to take the battle to Israel's enemies and defend his homeland:

"I want to leave here and go back there. Just let me out of here so I can go back to my friends. We’re going to win big."

heroism sucks balls

I've never heard of counts of heroism under fire from Hezzbollah. Probably because

1. No major Western News outlet would print it or show it, hence, you would not see it or hear of it.

2. If they did, you'd scream "ZOMG LIBERAL BIASORZESES!!!11!11one!11"

3. No ... I think 1 and 2 are enough.

I've never heard of counts of heroism under fire from Hezzbollah. Probably because

...

B)They are cowards

And there is where I finally stop.

Admittedly I wasn't going to read much beyond the first line, but I was bored.

I suppose now I'll go read something more factual and intellectual stimulating than your post...The Beano should do.

'We are going to win big'

Would it be overly cynical to suggest that logistics is more important than heroism when it comes to winning modern wars?

Would it be overly cynical to suggest that logistics is more important than heroism when it comes to winning modern wars?

One would think so. I certainly hope whoever wrote the article isn't one of the policy makers. I can see it now ...

"Men! Just go out there and be heroes! Go! Now! We'll win awesomely! Rah Rah Rah!" Then some cheerleaders come out and the soldiers get on their way.

http://www.schildersmilies.de/schilder/nocom.gif

Would it be overly cynical to suggest that logistics is more important than heroism when it comes to winning modern wars?

One would think so. I certainly hope whoever wrote the article isn't one of the policy makers. I can see it now ...

"Men! Just go out there and be heroes! Go! Now! We'll win awesomely! Rah Rah Rah!" Then some cheerleaders come out and the soldiers get on their way.
you two just pwned this thread

B)They are cowards

They seem to be brave enough to stand up to the IDF.

Funny how someone feels a need to remind people that Israel is "winning" the war against Hezbullah.

As the missile attack on Haifa proves, Hezbullah is playing by a different set of rules. They don't have to win. They just have to Not Lose.

True...Israel will win only if it doesnt listen to the U.N. But the sad thing is many Israli civialns will die....Since things will stay the same with rockets in Israel tens of hundrends will die. And even worse if Tel-Avi is attacked!

True...Israel will win only if it doesnt listen to the U.N. But the sad thing is many Israli civialns will die....Since things will stay the same with rockets in Israel tens of hundrends will die. And even worse if Tel-Avi is attacked!

Israel has taken cue from its benefactor the U.S. and has ignored the United Nations from Day One. So how come they're not winning decisively in Southern Lebanon?

well has the us won decisively in iraq??

Israel has taken cue from its benefactor the U.S. and has ignored the United Nations from Day One. So how come they're not winning decisively in Southern Lebanon?

In reality, the Arab states have been ignoring the UN since day 1 when they ignored a UN Resolution that was supposed to make Jerusalem an open city.

In reality, the Arab states have been ignoring the UN since day 1 when they ignored a UN Resolution that was supposed to make Jerusalem an open city.
*is choking just now* open city? get ti fock

*is choking just now* open city? get ti fock

It is true. The UNSC passed a Resolution that the UN would place their flag in Jerusalem thus making it an International City. The Arab states blocked them from doing so and the deadline passed. When it passed, they attacked the infant state of Israel.

http://www.schildersmilies.de/schilder/nocom.gif

Any victory by Israel will be Pyhrric. Why does anyone think this is going to resolve things any more than their last invasion of Lebanon?

I must say, people are VERY unpatriotic towards the good guys these days.

Oh no, I'm gonna get flamed!! *puts on helmet and dives behind a couch*

Meh!

What took 'em so long? :D

you two just pwned this thread

Dito!

Any victory by Israel will be Pyhrric. Why does anyone think this is going to resolve things any more than their last invasion of Lebanon?Well said. One might go a step further and say that no one is going to win in the long run here, but at the very least, Israel loses even if it wins.

I swear, some days I just want to to tell everyone in the Middle East "look, you've been fighting over this same patch of land for 5,000 years now. Since you can't share it, no one gets it. You have 90 days to get out, because after that, we're turning it into glass, and if you're in the way, sucks to be you."

Conversely, we could use the pot and pizza peace talks--drop burning bales of weed about every three blocks in the region and wait for everyone to get toasted, and then airlift in Twinkies and Pizza. If that won't make everyone chill the fuck out, nothing will.

One bunch of fundamentalists versus another, I would expect nothing less.

It is hard to tell the difference between heroism and zealous stupidity with modern warfare. Hezbollah is both outnumbered and outgunned, so Guerilla tactics are the only way that they remotely stand a chance of wearing down the Israelis. It is stupid to fling accusations of cowardice at ideological foes while you sit safe behind computer and play armchair general.

Looking over this conflict has made me realize something very important.

Which is as soon as Israel invaded Hezzoballah won.

Looking over this conflict has made me realize something very important.

Which is as soon as Israel invaded Hezzoballah won.

Bollocks. Israel just had the guts to act, and to call the Lebanese on their total failure to control their own people.

Any victory by Israel will be Pyhrric. Why does anyone think this is going to resolve things any more than their last invasion of Lebanon?

Because this time I don't think Israel is going to leave the job half done. Organizations like Hezbollah survive because it's painful and difficult to root them out. If even a small part survives as a functioning entity, they can rebuild.

But if you're willing to take the pain and get the job done, such as when Jordan expelled the PLO, or when Peru crushed the Shining Path, then you find these kind of organisations are houses of straw. Ultimately, they have no strength, and will fall before those willing to do what is necessary: kill them all, destroy their works, salt the earth they sprang from.

If we, or Israel, are too weak to destroy our enemies root and branch, then we have chosen not to survive.

Conversely, we could use the pot and pizza peace talks--drop burning bales of weed about every three blocks in the region and wait for everyone to get toasted, and then airlift in Twinkies and Pizza. If that won't make everyone chill the fuck out, nothing will.
That is the single best idea I have ever heard for resolving the situation in the Middle East.

There is one other option: wait till we no longer have a use for petroleum(or at least a small enough need that we could get all we need from home sources and Canada) and pull out completely, tell each side to go fuck themselves, and ignore it from here on out.

That is the single best idea I have ever heard for resolving the situation in the Middle East.

There is one other option: wait till we no longer have a use for petroleum(or at least a small enough need that we could get all we need from home sources and Canada) and pull out completely, tell each side to go fuck themselves, and ignore it from here on out.


The best Idea yet...no more money to send to terrorist for arms and such...because no more oil money to squander on fighting Israel and keeping the poor people occupied...


no more oil...no more midevil Middle East...they can all go fuck off...

I like it.:D

Looking over this conflict has made me realize something very important.

Which is as soon as Israel invaded Hezzoballah won.

Finally, someone gets it!

2. If they did, you'd scream "ZOMG LIBERAL BIASORZESES!!!11!11one!11"


you know, keruvalia ive debated you an a few posts now, and im starting to see a pattern. All of your insults have "!!!11!!!1!11one!" in there somewhere. Now this is just a friendly suggestion, but, you might want to get some new insults. You're really starting to look, well like a fag. so...idk.

EVERYBODY EVERYBODY EVERYBODY!!!!!! NEWSFLASH!!!!!

ive got it, why not just let the whole middle east fuck itself over, i mean really, what a better foreign policy. Nobody has to commit troops, no political parties have to take huge hits, the forum would be much less bloody, its really a win win situation.



(this really sounds like one of those bad options in the Issues page)

you know, keruvalia ive debated you an a few posts now, and im starting to see a pattern. All of your insults have "!!!11!!!1!11one!" in there somewhere. Now this is just a friendly suggestion, but, you might want to get some new insults. You're really starting to look, well like a fag. so...idk.Did you really have to go the homophobia route? Isn't it enough that you put your immaturity on display for all to see without adding gay-bashing to the mix?

Did you really have to go the homophobia route? Isn't it enough that you put your immaturity on display for all to see without adding gay-bashing to the mix?



jesus christ, what kind of sick politically correct world do we live in when i cant distinguish beteen liberal and conservative, black and white, and i cant say "fag." My god lighten up you annoying little prick.

Did you really have to go the homophobia route?

You do realize that fag does not always mean homosexual I hope?

EVERYBODY EVERYBODY EVERYBODY!!!!!! NEWSFLASH!!!!!

ive got it, why not just let the whole middle east fuck itself over, i mean really, what a better foreign policy. Nobody has to commit troops, no political parties have to take huge hits, the forum would be much less bloody, its really a win win situation.



(this really sounds like one of those bad options in the Issues page)
The only real reason the Middle East matters to us as a country is due to the economic necessity of oil. If, say, the world's main oil supply were to be somewhere in North America, as opposed to in the Middle East, the politics of the Arab world would never have mattered at all. Also, if said hypothetical suggestion were true, the U.S. would probably control the world quite literally, assuming it was not invaded in World War One or Two due to its oil supply. Makes one wonder how world affairs might have changed.

jesus christ, what kind of sick politically correct world do we live in when i cant distinguish beteen liberal and conservative, black and white, and i cant say "fag." My god lighten up you annoying little prick.

Alright. You can stop with the name calling now.

The only real reason the Middle East matters to us as a country is due to the economic necessity of oil. If, say, the world's main oil supply were to be somewhere in North America, as opposed to in the Middle East, the politics of the Arab world would never have mattered at all. Also, if said hypothetical suggestion were true, the U.S. would probably control the world quite literally, assuming it was not invaded in World War One or Two due to its oil supply. Makes one wonder how world affairs might have changed.



Yup, the cold war probaby would have heated up a little more if the US controlled most of the worlds oil supplies. and i wouldnt have dished out 30 bucks to fill up my tank today. Oh well. who cares.

but you know come to think of it, if the US had been invaded in early WWII the world would be completely different, nobody in the US wanted war before pearl harbor (well the majority) and our army was training with cardboard tanks before the huge war effort began. Same thing with WWI and mexico, if the zimmerman note had gotten there, mexico might have a few more states.

Alright. You can stop with the name calling now.


you cant tell me you dont get annoyed every time somebody has to pick apart every little part of every little post you have. I said liberal once, and my post turned from something about a retarted girl getting hanged in iran to a partisin festival. im tired of everybody being so hypersensitive to every single little word.

Same thing with WWI and mexico, if the zimmerman note had gotten there, mexico might have a few more states.

Was the Zimmerman note even real? Or to put it another way, the US might have had a few more states when it was all said and done. Who knows.

you cant tell me you dont get annoyed every time somebody has to pick apart every little part of every little post you have.

Actually, I intend to ignore them when they do that and just respond in a calm fashion. Kill them with kindness my mother always says.

I said liberal once, and my post turned from something about a retarted girl getting hanged in iran to a partisin festival.

I was there.

im tired of everybody being so hypersensitive to every single little word.

Welcome to the real world where you can not say anything without offending someone.

Was the Zimmerman note even real? Or to put it another way, the US might have had a few more states when it was all said and done. Who knows.


you know if the US navy had intercepted the note i would be asking the same question, but it was the British. And im convicned that the only reason we didnt Annex mexico after our first little go around with Santa Anna was becasue the US would be too big to fit on the weather channel map. Ever notice how it fits perfectly?




huh huh huh...consipiracy on the part of time warner anybody????

I was there.



i know.....

you know if the US navy had intercepted the note i would be asking the same question, but it was the British.

And you should not question where they picked it up from? Does not matter anyway as Zimmermann himself confirmed that he did send it to the German Embassy in Mexico City.

And im convicned that the only reason we didnt Annex mexico after our first little go around with Santa Anna was becasue the US would be too big to fit on the weather channel map. Ever notice how it fits perfectly?

I never thought of that. hmmm.

huh huh huh...consipiracy on the part of time warner anybody????

CONSPIRACY? AHHH!!!!

You do realize that fag does not always mean homosexual I hope?

Agreed. Sometimes it can be used to mean 'cigarette'. ;)

To actually address the topic, though: the accusation that the Hezbollah fighters are cowards is dubious, to say the least. To stand up to an army which outnumbers you, outguns you, has greater logistical support than you, and is funded by some of the richest nations in the world is not the action of a coward.

There are many things you could call the Hezbollah, but 'cowards' wouldn't be one of them.

To actually address the topic, though: the accusation that the Hezbollah fighters are cowards is dubious, to say the least. To stand up to an army which outnumbers you, outguns you, has greater logistical support than you, and is funded by some of the richest nations in the world is not the action of a coward.

There are many things you could call the Hezbollah, but 'cowards' wouldn't be one of them.hey.. you are breaking the rules.. only our side(US/Israel) can ever be charaterized as heroic .. the other sides are only Cowards/stupids [/sarcasm] ;)

jesus christ, what kind of sick politically correct world do we live in when i cant distinguish beteen liberal and conservative, black and white, and i cant say "fag." My god lighten up you annoying little prick.
No one is stopping you from saying it, obviously. I merely asked why you had to go there. Guess it's because your arguments lack gravitas.

You do realize that fag does not always mean homosexual I hope?
In this context? You've got to be a complete idiot to assume that Amadinejad was using the term to mean cigarette when he was discussing Keruvalia's posting techniques.

They seem to be brave enough to stand up to the IDF.

It's more like stupidity. Even when they have the IDF outnumbered they still get owned.

Training, motivation, and morale are all in every trooper of the IDF. I can't say the same of the hezzies.

I thought up some alternate titles for this thread:

IDF to Hezz: "Let's get it on like donkey kong!"

Israeli soldiers: "Let's get it on".

:D

hey.. you are breaking the rules.. only our side(US/Israel) can ever be charaterized as heroic .. the other sides are only Cowards/stupids [/sarcasm] ;)


Launching rockets aimed at cities with the intent of killing civilians (Arabs even, OMG!!!!) sure sounds like heroism to me...

It's more like stupidity. Even when they have the IDF outnumbered they still get owned.

And that makes them stupid how? Where the Confederates stupid for taking on the Americans even though the Confederates where outgunned and had less manpower than the United States? Lee took an numerically inferior army and nearly won the Civil War. If he had not screwed up at Gettysburg, we could very well be two nations today.

Training, motivation, and morale are all in every trooper of the IDF. I can't say the same of the hezzies.

Your proof?

I thought up some alternate titles for this thread:

IDF to Hezz: "Let's get it on like donkey kong!"

Israeli soldiers: "Let's get it on".

:D

And Hezzbolah's leader is saying "we are ready for open war" They are ready to take on the IDF as well.

You haven't heard accounts of Hezbollah's courage? I have, again and again.

Whatever else you think of them, they are a relatively small guerilla force fighting against one of the most powerful militaries on the planet, and they are doing surprisingly well.

You haven't heard accounts of Hezbollah's courage? I have, again and again.

Care to post them?

Whatever else you think of them, they are a relatively small guerilla force fighting against one of the most powerful militaries on the planet, and they are doing surprisingly well.

They are are they not? It will not be enough though I do not think.

Care to post them?



They are are they not? It will not be enough though I do not think.
Probably not in the short term no ...

But in the end either isreal is going to kill enough civvies to even shame the US or hez is going to mostly die out

Probably both

And isreal will give what is left of Hez enough recruting power to continue for the next frigging century... I can only see more and more inosents geting hurt with both their tactics

Launching rockets aimed at cities with the intent of killing civilians (Arabs even, OMG!!!!) sure sounds like heroism to me...

In fairness, the IDF don't exactly have their hands clean with regard to civilian casualties either. According to http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14035.htm , the IDF have been responsible for roughly 195 civilian casualties, compared to 12 civilian deaths laid at Hezbollah's doorstep.

In fairness, the IDF don't exactly have their hands clean with regard to civilian casualties either. According to http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14035.htm , the IDF have been responsible for roughly 195 civilian casualties, compared to 12 civilian deaths laid at Hezbollah's doorstep.

Also have to remember that most of the targets hit were being used by Hezbollah to either store rockets or launch them or used as C&C. Thus making them legit targets for the IDF to hit. Since Hezbollah have used such buildings and they were destroyed, any civilian deaths associated with such attacks are laid at Hezbollah's feet.

Care to post them?

This is one of the ones I read: Where the shepherds tend guns by night (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-soldiers6aug06,0,7722186.story?page=2&coll=la-home-headlines)

There are also lots of articles about how Hezbollah is doing far better against the Israelis than they expected; this one (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-soldiers6aug06,0,7722186.story?page=1&coll=la-home-headlines), for instance. Many of them mention its resolve and determination.

Bigotry manifesting itself as contempt for one's opponent will not serve the Israelis well in this war. They are fighting against a determined and competent enemy who, like it or not, has substantial support among the Lebanese people. This enemy is one they themselves unintentionally created, and operations like this one will ultimately only serve to strengthen it.

It's more like stupidity. Even when they have the IDF outnumbered they still get owned.

If you consider yourself smart, I fully expect you to surrender and prepare for assraping the moment people with more guns show up at your doorstep. Otherwise, you must proscribe yourself as stupid.


motivation, and morale are all in every trooper of the IDF. I can't say the same of the hezzies.

Motivation and morale lacking in the Hezbollah? If they lacked that, they wouldn't be waging a guerilla war for as long as they have. Would you say the Vietcong also lacked motivation and morale? What a load of bollocks.

And you say you want to join the military. Bollocks, you're kind would stop bullets with their cranium with empty headed 'heroism'

But then again, you also said you'd never join military service. Flip Flopper.

Also have to remember that most of the targets hit were being used by Hezbollah to either store rockets or launch them or used as C&C. Thus making them legit targets for the IDF to hit. Since Hezbollah have used such buildings and they were destroyed, any civilian deaths associated with such attacks are laid at Hezbollah's feet.

Nice excuse for the IDF's civilian casualties. There are more ways to root out Hezbollah than carpet-bombing cities, you know. The Israelis are launching bombs and missles into buildings they know house innocent civilians(Not to mention U.N. workers every now and then), and are therefore directly responsible for the deaths of innocent people.

Why do you think Hezbollah was hiding weapons in civilian areas anyways? Obviously this increases civilian deaths, and Lebanese hatred towards Israel. An effective way to unify anyone who wants to fight Israel, if you ask me.

I'm just wondering where the Mossad are in all this mess, and why they havn't killed the leaders of Hezbollah yet. Usually they are a bit more effective at that sort of thing.

Launching rockets aimed at cities with the intent of killing civilians (Arabs even, OMG!!!!) sure sounds like heroism to me...

And launching huge bombs and rockets into heavily populated civilian areas where there is an ever-so-slight chance of terrorist activities is so heroic, of course.

From what I've seen so far, the only reason Israel is even remotely doing good is because of their advanced weaponry, ships, fighter jets, tanks, etc. But when they bring in their ground troops it always seems like they incur heavy losses.

Nice excuse for the IDF's civilian casualties. There are more ways to root out Hezbollah than carpet-bombing cities, you know. The Israelis are launching bombs and missles into buildings they know house innocent civilians(Not to mention U.N. workers every now and then), and are therefore directly responsible for the deaths of innocent people.

Why do you think Hezbollah was hiding weapons in civilian areas anyways? Obviously this increases civilian deaths, and Lebanese hatred towards Israel. An effective way to unify anyone who wants to fight Israel, if you ask me.

I'm just wondering where the Mossad are in all this mess, and why they havn't killed the leaders of Hezbollah yet. Usually they are a bit more effective at that sort of thing.

It's true, just recently they bombed a building with 56 women and children.

No-one ever 'WIN BIG' in that part of the world, because there are too many disparate groups of interests with their grubby fingers in the conflict pie.

If you stop and list all the different reasons that different groups have - and their different goals - then it becomes quite clear that it's such a complicated mess that there will never be a resolution. At least not in out lifetimes.

Western financial interest want to keep the region destabilized for oil and such. Evangelical christians want religious Jews to gain control of Jerusalem so the temple can be rebuilt. (Religious jews would probably go along with that). Even nuttier evangelical christians want to start a major conflict there to bring about the end times. Religious muslims want sole control of Jerusalem because it's a sacred site. Even nuttier religious muslims want to eradicate all the jews so they can bring about the end times. Iran/Syria want a millitant Hezb'allah so they can cement a position as local powers. The chinese will back the Iranians because that allows them a toe-hold in the region and increases their geo-political reach. The palestinians want there land back and the water to be turned back on it Gaza. The Isrealis don't want to give the land back because they are worried that the day may come again when their neighbors try and drive them into the sea and they won't turn the water on in the hopes that the palestinians will leave. And within the G7, there are various ethinic/political groups that exert conflicting pressures upon their respective leaderships to support/oppose part, a combination of, or all of the above at various times. Of course, I'm simplifying here. The reality is a lot more complicated.

Peace in the Middle east. Good luck with that project mate.

Of course, with all this going on it explains why people are acting like this conflict is the end of the world and feel they can ignore places like the Congo, where a million people a year are killed*. (Making the current unpleasantness in the ME look fairly trivial).

Personally, I think Jerusalem should be given to the buddhists. Give them a chance to foul it up for a change. It's only fair. Failing that, we should just ignore them all from now on. Anf if we really have to do something, let's start by dealing with each of these problems (and others that I can't think of offhand) one by one, with the full realization that it won't lead to peace straight away - probably not until all of them are addressed - and that there is no panacea, no single 'cease-fire' between the combatants du jour that will lead to an overnight resolution. Won't happen in my lifetime though.


*Of course, this just could be because they are black africans, and therefore don't count as far as the rest of the world is concerned.

You haven't heard accounts of Hezbollah's courage? I have, again and again.

Whatever else you think of them, they are a relatively small guerilla force fighting against one of the most powerful militaries on the planet, and they are doing surprisingly well.
To actually address the topic, though: the accusation that the Hezbollah fighters are cowards is dubious, to say the least. To stand up to an army which outnumbers you, outguns you, has greater logistical support than you, and is funded by some of the richest nations in the world is not the action of a coward.

There are many things you could call the Hezbollah, but 'cowards' wouldn't be one of them.how dare you..:cool:

you are breaking the rules.. only our side(US/Israel) can ever be charaterized as heroic .. the other sides are only Cowards/stupids [/sarcasm] ;)

All's well, Sir! Quite bullish. :cool:

Nice excuse for the IDF's civilian casualties. There are more ways to root out Hezbollah than carpet-bombing cities, you know. The Israelis are launching bombs and missles into buildings they know house innocent civilians(Not to mention U.N. workers every now and then), and are therefore directly responsible for the deaths of innocent people.

Anybody who uses civilian shields to prevent attacks is violating the 4th Geneva Convention. Accordingly, any civilian casualties suffered at the hands of an attack, the blame lies with those who are actually using the Human Shields and not the side that attacked. Hezbollah has been using human shields by placing their rocket launchers and rockets in civilian areas that wound up getting hit and thus killing civilians. Therefor, in accordence with International Law, the blame lies with Hezbollah and not with the IDF.

Why do you think Hezbollah was hiding weapons in civilian areas anyways? Obviously this increases civilian deaths, and Lebanese hatred towards Israel. An effective way to unify anyone who wants to fight Israel, if you ask me.

Does not change the fact that Hezbollah is mostly responsible for the civilian casualties that have occured in this conflict.

From what I've seen so far, the only reason Israel is even remotely doing good is because of their advanced weaponry, ships, fighter jets, tanks, etc. But when they bring in their ground troops it always seems like they incur heavy losses.

Heavy losses? So far, they have lost less than a hundred people. Where are you getting heavy losses from?

It's true, just recently they bombed a building with 56 women and children.

And yet they only found around 28 bodies.

Because this time I don't think Israel is going to leave the job half done. Organizations like Hezbollah survive because it's painful and difficult to root them out. If even a small part survives as a functioning entity, they can rebuild.

The most effective way to fight fire is to eliminate the fuel, not pour gasoline on it.

I must say, people are VERY unpatriotic towards the good guys these days.

Oh no, I'm gonna get flamed!! *puts on helmet and dives behind a couch*

There are no good guys.

The most effective way to fight fire is to eliminate the fuel, not pour gasoline on it.



There are no good guys.

Yep. Remove the fuel. Knock off each and every Hizbollahi who ever lived. Remove EVERYTHING they can use as weapons.

Anybody who uses civilian shields to prevent attacks is violating the 4th Geneva Convention.

Where is the proof of this? If they were hiding behind civilians as shields, with all the civilians dead they should be able to produce dead Hezbollah, which they havent. Its just a lame excuse for either legitimately targeting civilians, or a sign that Israel has no clue what they are doing.

Giving the lie to the “human shields” theory, HRW says its researchers “found numerous cases in which the IDF [Israeli army] launched artillery and air attacks with limited or dubious military objectives but excessive civilian cost. In many cases, Israeli forces struck an area with no apparent military target. In some instances, Israeli forces appear to have deliberately targeted civilians.”

In fact, of the 24 incidents they document, HRW researchers could find no evidence that Hizbullah was operating in or near the areas that were attacked by the Israeli air force. Roth states: “The image that Israel has promoted of such [human] shielding as the cause of so high a civilian death toll is wrong. In the many cases of civilian deaths examined by Human Rights Watch, the location of Hezbollah troops and arms had nothing to do with the deaths because there was no Hezbollah around.”

The impression that Hizbullah is using civilians as human shields has been reinforced, according to HRW, by official Israeli statements that have “blurred the distinction between civilians and combatants, arguing that only people associated with Hezbollah remain in southern Lebanon, so all are legitimate targets of attack.”


And btw Israel is doing something along the same lines:

There are hundreds of similar military installations next to or inside Israel’s northern communities. Some distance from Nazareth, for example, Israel has built a large weapons factory virtually on top of an Arab town -- so close to it, in fact, that the factory’s perimeter fence is only a few metres from the main building of the local junior school. There have been reports of rockets landing close to that Arab community.

Oh but they are Arabs and noone will care.

Yep. Remove the fuel. Knock off each and every Hizbollahi who ever lived. Remove EVERYTHING they can use as weapons.
That’s not eliminating their fuel that’s adding to it

Yep. Remove the fuel. Knock off each and every Hizbollahi who ever lived. Remove EVERYTHING they can use as weapons.

I meant stop Israeli agression, which is causing rage throughout Lebanon and more support for Hezbollah, and stop invading Lebanon, which is the reason Hezbollah was created in the first place.

I meant stop Israeli agression, which is causing rage throughout Lebanon and more support for Hezbollah, and stop invading Lebanon, which is the reason Hezbollah was created in the first place.

Ah meant tossers who have the mistaken idea that there is such a thing as a Hezbollahi who ain't better of dead.

Where is the proof of this? If they were hiding behind civilians as shields, with all the civilians dead they should be able to produce dead Hezbollah, which they havent. Its just a lame excuse for either legitimately targeting civilians, or a sign that Israel has no clue what they are doing.

So you are buying everything that Hezbollah says?

As to the article you posted, there is noo link what so ever and how would they actually know who is Hezbollah or not.

And btw Israel is doing something along the same lines:

They are not inside buildings nor are they actually hiding behind civilians. The base is also clearly marked so that destroys that argument.

Oh but they are Arabs and noone will care.

You are so very childish. What makes you think I do not care about Arabs?

I meant stop Israeli agression, which is causing rage throughout Lebanon and more support for Hezbollah, and stop invading Lebanon, which is the reason Hezbollah was created in the first place.

I guess you didn't notice that Israel stopped invading Lebanon, shut down the Christian militias in Southern Lebanon, and left Lebanon - for years.

Hezbollah then spent years building bunkers and acquiring missiles and sending people to Iran for training. Then Hezbollah kidnapped Israeli soldiers from inside Israel, and fired rockets at Israel.

Want to tell me how that last part is Israeli aggression?

I meant stop Israeli agression, which is causing rage throughout Lebanon and more support for Hezbollah, and stop invading Lebanon, which is the reason Hezbollah was created in the first place.

About disarming all the terrorist organizations in the region? That will go along way in stopping the entire crisis.

That’s not eliminating their fuel that’s adding to it

Remove each and every Hezbollahi. Flames end.

Yessir! Blair and Bush have got a REAL plan - and the means to execute the plan. Seems the UNSC is fine with it.
The Left has nothing but moanings. And not even the means to execute the moanings either.

Remove each and every Hezbollahi. Flames end.

Yessir! Blair and Bush have got a REAL plan - and the means to execute the plan. Seems the UNSC is fine with it.
The Left has nothing but moanings. And not even the means to execute the moanings either.

I hope you meant Chirac and Bush as it is a joint French/American resolution.

I meant stop Israeli agression, which is causing rage throughout Lebanon and more support for Hezbollah, and stop invading Lebanon, which is the reason Hezbollah was created in the first place.


Stop attacking them , stop bombing them and stop kidnapping their soldiers..stop invading them and recognise the right of israel to exist as a nation.

Then they will stop being "aggressive "..:rolleyes:

Israeli aggression...:rolleyes: YOU are not a bit biased now are you ?:D

I hope you meant Chirac and Bush as it is a joint French/American resolution.

Yessir! Good to see all five the V-Powers do the right thing and fall in line :D

Remove each and every Hezbollahi. Flames end.

Yessir! Blair and Bush have got a REAL plan - and the means to execute the plan. Seems the UNSC is fine with it.
The Left has nothing but moanings. And not even the means to execute the moanings either.
1) You are bad at analogies … what you are trying to explain is trying to remove the fire directly rather then the fuel as you claimed.

2) Not really left … more center strait down if you actually cared to be correct … unless it was not me you were bitching about more trying to make a vague insult

1) You are bad at analogies … what you are trying to explain is trying to remove the fire directly rather then the fuel as you claimed.

2) Not really left … more center strait down if you actually cared to be correct … unless it was not me you were bitching about more trying to make a vague insult

Oh, I meant every pathetic person who thinks the planet is better for having Hezbollahis on it.
Winners don't need hijackers.
Winners have Air Forces.

Stop attacking them , stop bombing them and stop kidnapping their soldiers..stop invading them and recognise the right of israel to exist as a nation.

Then they will stop being "aggressive "..:rolleyes:

Israeli aggression...:rolleyes: YOU are not a bit biased now are you ?:D

How about Israel stop invading Lebanon, shelling Gaza, preventing supplies from entering the West Bank effectively starving a good amount of the Palestinian population, release the 9,000 Palestinian detainees being held without process including the 400 children and 100 women, and maybe grow some balls to have a bit of decency for the people inhabiting the land you are trying to take over.

And stop bitching about 2 kidnapped soldiers. They were in Lebanon, violating the sovereignty of a neighboring nation, and they sure as hell werent there giving out candy.

Oh, I meant every pathetic person who thinks the planet is better for having Hezbollahis on it.
Winners don't need hijackers.
Winners have Air Forces.

If Israel never existed, neither would Hezbollah.

Israeli aggression...:rolleyes: YOU are not a bit biased now are you ?:Dwell.. then the Whole Wide Web is biased.

If I search the xpression "Israeli aggression"
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22Israeli+aggression

I get 2,160,000 web sites for "Israeli aggression"

If Israel never existed, neither would Hezbollah.

If the PLO were not attacking Israel from Lebanon and thus Israel's invasion of Lebanon, Hezbollah would not exist.

If Israel never existed, neither would Hezbollah.

And? If there were no muslim Arabs, there would be no need for Israel either For the whole Levant would be a shared Christian/Jewish Condominium.

And? If there were no muslim Arabs, there would be no need for Israel either For the whole Levant would be a shared Christian/Jewish Condominium.

I'm sure that can be arranged.

Oh, I meant every pathetic person who thinks the planet is better for having Hezbollahis on it.
Winners don't need hijackers.
Winners have Air Forces.
Are you claiming Hezbollah hijacked airplanes? (I assume a September 11th reference)?
Sorry that’s just what it sounded like.

So an air force is what makes you a winner? That makes north Korea good guys … or Iran good guys.

well.. then the Whole Wide Web is biased.

If I search the xpression "Israeli aggression"
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22Israeli+aggression

I get 2,160,000 web sites for "Israeli aggression"
Someone can't count :p
Or more likely it's just my silly internet, but meh.
1 - 10 of about 1,500,000 for "Israeli aggression - 0.16 sec.
But anyway, what does that prove? Most of them are probably blogs by anti-establishment disturbed teenagers.
Also, if I look up Hezbollah + terrorism:
1 - 10 of about 10,700,000

If the PLO were not attacking Israel from Lebanon and thus Israel's invasion of Lebanon, Hezbollah would not exist.

The IDF subsequently bombed PLO bases and ammunition dumps in Beirut and attacked other targets in Lebanon on June 4-5, 1982. The PLO responded with a massive artillery and mortar attack on the Israeli population of the Galilee. It was the PLO shelling, and not directly the Argov shooting as is sometimes assumed, that triggered the Israeli invasion of Lebanon.

Who shot first?

And? If there were no muslim Arabs, there would be no need for Israel either For the whole Levant would be a shared Christian/Jewish Condominium.I'm sure that can be arranged.DK/BM wet dreams of Genocide..

Are you claiming Hezbollah hijacked airplanes? (I assume a September 11th reference)?
Sorry that’s just what it sounded like.

So an air force is what makes you a winner? That makes north Korea good guys … or Iran good guys.


I believe that the proper idea would be "an effective air force". Many nations today have air forces that are merely a very expensive collection of ground and aerial targets containing expensively trained future corpses.

While Hezbollah wasn't in 9-11, they have done terrorism worldwide (assassinations, bombings, etc). They also operate extensive money making and money laundering operations in the US.

The IDF subsequently bombed PLO bases and ammunition dumps in Beirut and attacked other targets in Lebanon on June 4-5, 1982. The PLO responded with a massive artillery and mortar attack on the Israeli population of the Galilee. It was the PLO shelling, and not directly the Argov shooting as is sometimes assumed, that triggered the Israeli invasion of Lebanon.

Who shot first?

The PLO for launching attacks from Lebanon. Have a nice day.

The PLO for launching attacks from Lebanon. Have a nice day.

Did you not read? It was in response to an Israeli attack.

You know what, nevermind.

I believe that the proper idea would be "an effective air force". Many nations today have air forces that are merely a very expensive collection of ground and aerial targets containing expensively trained future corpses.

While Hezbollah wasn't in 9-11, they have done terrorism worldwide (assassinations, bombings, etc). They also operate extensive money making and money laundering operations in the US.
I understand this but with all the twisted logic the poster is using combined with the jamming together of thoughts and blurring the lines I am honestly trying to separate what he really means or if he is just going to lump all the Arabs into one big pile.

I honestly am confused as to the intent lol half the time it seems to be confusion the other half attempts to be some sort of pithy point lol

Someone can't count :p
Or more likely it's just my silly internet, but meh.

But anyway, what does that prove? Most of them are probably blogs by anti-establishment disturbed teenagers.
Also, if I look up Hezbollah + terrorism:
Why beat around the bush lets googlefight it

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=israel+terror&word2=Hezbollah+terror

Did you not read? It was in response to an Israeli attack.

You know what, nevermind.

A line from Wikipedia in case you forgotten. Gradually the Lebanese authorities were being pushed into irrelevancy. Harsh Israeli retribution after Palestinian raids from what was now termed "Fatahland" did nothing to endear the civilian Shi'a and Christian population to the Palestinian guerrillas.

Seems to me that the PLO have been launching raids and Israel responded to such raids.

Yep. Remove the fuel. Knock off each and every Hizbollahi who ever lived. Remove EVERYTHING they can use as weapons.

This reminds me of the song "Paschendale," by Iron Maiden.

"Cruelty has a human heart,
And everyman does play his part
The terror of all the men we kill
The human heart is hungry still."

As long as we have attitudes like BogMarsh's, we will never see any end to fighting in the Middle East.

As long as we have attitudes like BogMarsh's, we will never see any end to fighting in the Middle East.
Yep. It's attitudes like that, that fuel terrorism.

Yep. It's attitudes like that, that fuel terrorism.

And it's never enough for them either. Even if they achieve their wet dream of erasing Islam and Muslims from the face of the planet, they'll simply look for another religious ethnic group they can call ub3r3b1l and try to wipe out.

Yep. It's attitudes like that, that fuel terrorism.


Actually its oil and the money that comes from it and the value it places on a pile of sand and rocks with no other significance.

Who would actually care if these people wanted to go stone age if it wasnt for oil ?

Yep. It's attitudes like that, that fuel terrorism.

i reckon he is as dull as poo in real life, but just comes out with extreme xenephobic bullshit behind the anonymity of the interweb to get a reaction.

I'm sure that can be arranged.

Much easier to remove the Israeli jews. Less land mass to glass, less people to kill, less resources used up. Since you claim to be immoral and care only about pragmatism, not to mention your previous record of advocating of genocide, removing the smallest factor would be more efficient and you should have no problems about that.

Unless that immorality of yours is just a lie of course, a claim merely to make yourself look good.

Actually its oil and the money that comes from it and the value it places on a pile of sand and rocks with no other significance.

Who would actually care if these people wanted to go stone age if it wasnt for oil ?
That is more like extra oxygen ... it alows the fire to really burn

The money that is ... from oil

DK/BM/DM wet dreams of Genocide..Of a certain group of people who stand in the street chanting "ALLAHU ACKBAR" and mutilate the bodies of KIA American personel, and insurgents, AQ, Terrorists, hezzbolah, Fatah, Hamas, etc.

Hey, OD we agree for once.