NationStates Jolt Archive

I most certainly am tired about people trying to somehow prove that "Western" culture is somehow superior to other cultures.

This is already being discussed in the other thread you made.

As opposed to the same people on the other side, trying to cure disease with animal fur and crap like that.

Two sides to each coin.

Yes, but I'm also tired of having political arguments with people on the subject. Too many stuborn fundies can turn anyone off debating.

I most certainly am tired about people trying to somehow prove that "Western" culture is somehow superior to other cultures.
Sure, just silence all debate and accuse the other side of xenophobia. Ah the wonders of political correctness.

Way to word the poll like a jackass, btw.

Just for that, I'm voting for more bigotry.

Well done you have succesfully added the worlds most biased poll.

One doesn't have to have a western culture to assume one's own culture is superior. You will find that people that recognize that their way is neither the only good way nor even necessarily the best way for anybody but themselves to be the exception not the norm.

Most people from most cultures assume their culture is the best.

Just look at most asian cultures including the chinese, korean and japanese cultures as well as islamic cultures to see cultural superiority in action.

If it's a problem at all, it's a universal problem and not limited to westerners.

Way to word the poll like a jackass, btw.

Just for that, I'm voting for more bigotry.

And where is the "i like pie/waffles" option? Pancakes are frisbees of bread...:D


Seriously, more options needed. Maybe a neutral one.

Way to word the poll like a jackass, btw.

Just for that, I'm voting for more bigotry.
Me too. Oh no! I've committed a non-PC thought crime by questioning the idea of cultural relativism!

Me too. Oh no! I've committed a non-PC thought crime by questioning the idea of cultural relativism!

Racist xenophobic bastard :p

I most certainly am tired about people trying to somehow prove that "Western" culture is somehow superior to other cultures.

Truth is called hate by those who hate the truth.

Western nations/culture pw3ns third world culture/nations

:p

Im fine with tolerating other cultures, as long as they dont arbitarily discriminate against minority groups. If they do that...make like the duke and NOOK EM!:p. Unless they've migrated to anywhere near me....oh, dammit, lets call the whole thing off!

Truth is called hate by those who hate the truth.

Western nations/culture pw3ns third world culture/nations

:p

One can always trust you to use twisted logic to rationalize your war-mongering ways.

What is western culture?

In a immigrant, multicultural place like Oz it's hard to define precisely what the dominant culture is, it changes so rapidly.

I most certainly am tired about people trying to somehow prove that "Western" culture is somehow superior to other cultures.


I'm not...simple as that.:D

I hate fucking Xenomorphs. Acid-blooded fuckers.

Don't blame me for thinking that cultures which emphasize education, civil rights, democracy, science and reason, tolerance and secularism are superior to ones that want to drag the world in to a fundamentalist dark age where gays and adulterers are stoned, science is brought to a standstill and individual expression and personal freedom are silenced.

Pfft, Western culture produces people who paint their faces with menstrual blood and photo it for slavering freaks. I don't think I have to say any more.

Don't blame me for thinking that cultures which emphasize education, civil rights, democracy, science and reason, tolerance and secularism are superior to ones that want to drag the world in to a fundamentalist dark age where gays and adulterers are stoned, science is brought to a standstill and individual expression and personal freedom are silenced.
You pwn lately.

Pfft, Western culture produces people who paint their faces with menstrual blood and photo it for slavering freaks. I don't think I have to say any more.

In other cultures, those people would be stoned to death and their works burned. In fact, anyone who produced art deemed "degenerate" in some cultures would be savagely beaten or killed and have their works burned.

I'll gladly suffer a few weirdos if it means being able to express myself freely.

Errinundera']What is western culture?

In a immigrant, multicultural place like Oz it's hard to define precisely what the dominant culture is, it changes so rapidly.
Judging by your location being 'the yarra' I would say Italian. :p

In other cultures, those people would be stoned to death and their works burned. In fact, anyone who produced art deemed "degenerate" in some cultures would be savagely beaten or killed and have their works burned.

I'll gladly suffer a few weirdos if it means being able to express myself freely.
Freedom is dirty. It smells bad, makes your eyes water just thinking about it. Takes a strong culture to chug it down without wincing.

Don't blame me for thinking that cultures which emphasize education, civil rights, democracy, science and reason, tolerance and secularism are superior to ones that want to drag the world in to a fundamentalist dark age where gays and adulterers are stoned, science is brought to a standstill and individual expression and personal freedom are silenced.

I don't think that's what he's talking about. At all.

Check out Sinuhue's thread on whether or not aboriginals were "savage" and you might get a better idea.

Freedom is dirty. It smells bad, makes your eyes water just thinking about it. Takes a strong culture to chug it down without wincing.

Fascism goes down smooooth.

Don't blame me for thinking that cultures which emphasize education, civil rights, democracy, science and reason, tolerance and secularism are superior to ones that want to drag the world in to a fundamentalist dark age where gays and adulterers are stoned, science is brought to a standstill and individual expression and personal freedom are silenced.
It's obvious that you hate black people and Asians and want to enslave them you fucking bigot. :upyours:

Freedom is dirty. It smells bad, makes your eyes water just thinking about it. Takes a strong culture to chug it down without wincing.


Thats what I have been saying for years. Why won't people listen?:(

It's obvious that you hate black people and Asians and want to enslave them you fucking bigot. :upyours:

Yeah, well you're an anti-Semite! :upyours:

*And that's how we learned our lesson*

Thats what I have been saying for years. Why won't people listen?:(
I don’t know. You don’t need freedom to live a clean, stoic life. What else is it for but drugs, sex and maybe a little consensual violence?

I don't think that's what he's talking about. At all.

Check out Sinuhue's thread on whether or not aboriginals were "savage" and you might get a better idea.
They were. Its not our fault that we have a superior culture than a bunch of hunter gatherers who ran around in g-strings and called each other "Red Bull". They had their chance with this land, and made huts, bows, and arrows out of it. Its now our chance with this land, and we have made New York, L.A., Miami, Universities, hospitals, a militaristicly advanced war machine, space centers, and automobiles out of it.

Dont tell me there are no superior cultures.

They were. Its not our fault that we have a superior culture than a bunch of hunter gatherers who ran around in g-strings and called each other "Red Bull". They had their chance with this land, and made huts, bows, and arrows out of it. Its now our chance with this land, and we have made New York, L.A., Miami, Universities, hospitals, a militaristicly advanced war machine, space centers, and automobiles out of it.

Dont tell me there are no superior cultures.
I didn't think it possible that I could think less of you until I read this.

Yes, but I'm also tired of having political arguments with people on the subject. Too many stuborn fundies can turn anyone off debating.
The stubborn Middle Eastern fundies who just won't understand that they have no moral right to hurt or murder women for being raped?

I most certainly am tired about people trying to somehow prove that "Western" culture is somehow superior to other cultures.
I think that western culture, while far from perfect, has a lot of points better than certain other cultures. I don't think that because I'm some kind of bigoted moron. I think that because I support human rights.

The stubborn Middle Eastern fundies who just won't understand that they have no moral right to hurt or murder women for being raped?
Same type of people as the Christian fundies that can be found in America. So, yeah. Them too.

One can always trust you to use twisted logic to rationalize your war-mongering ways.
DesignatedMarksman aside, not all who say that western culture is better than more backwards cultures thinks that war is the answer.

Same type of people as the Christian fundies that can be found in America. So, yeah. Them too.
I agree with you there. So do you agree that neither type of fundamentalist should be permitted to kill women who aren't "pure enough" or kill gays?

Errinundera']What is western culture?

The idea that human rights trump collectivist/theocratic doctrines.

They were. Its not our fault that we have a superior culture than a bunch of hunter gatherers who ran around in g-strings and called each other "Red Bull". They had their chance with this land, and made huts, bows, and arrows out of it. Its now our chance with this land, and we have made New York, L.A., Miami, Universities, hospitals, a militaristicly advanced war machine, space centers, and automobiles out of it.

Dont tell me there are no superior cultures.
At least the natives didn't use the resources of that land to destroy other lands.

They were. Its not our fault that we have a superior culture than a bunch of hunter gatherers who ran around in g-strings and called each other "Red Bull". They had their chance with this land, and made huts, bows, and arrows out of it. Its now our chance with this land, and we have made New York, L.A., Miami, Universities, hospitals, a militaristicly advanced war machine, space centers, and automobiles out of it.

See, this is what I think Trotskylvania is talking about.

I agree with you there. So do you agree that neither type of fundamentalist should be permitted to kill women who aren't "pure enough" or kill gays?


This is the easiest question ever. I agree.


Unless this is a trick question... there's no small print, is there?

The idea that human rights trump collectivist/theocratic doctrines.

No, that's an aspect of liberalism.

No, that's an aspect of liberalism.
Which has been the defining ideology in the west since 1789. Bushevik torturers, fundamentalists, etc are all deviants from that.

Which has been the defining ideology in the west since 1789.

Except when it wasn't convenient. Which was pretty much always.

Or when it was rejected for ideological reasons - by the Nazis, some of the Communists, religious fundamentalists, anti-democrats.... Were they not "Western"?

Bushevik torturers, fundamentalists, etc are all deviants from that.

Of course. Arbitrarily define a culture according to an aspect of it that you like, and thus exclude adherents of that culture who you don't like by calling them "deviants."

Exactly the same thing can be done to any culture, with similar results. You've demonstrated nothing.

See, this is what I think Trotskylvania is talking about.
Just because what I said isnt nice, doesnt mean it isnt true.

At least the natives didn't use the resources of that land to destroy other lands.
Please, they didnt have the means to do it, regardless of if they wanted to or not. We did, and still do.

I didn't think it possible that I could think less of you until I read this.
Excuse me while I go feel bad.....:rolleyes:

They were. Its not our fault that we have a superior culture than a bunch of hunter gatherers who ran around in g-strings and called each other "Red Bull". They had their chance with this land, and made huts, bows, and arrows out of it. Its now our chance with this land, and we have made New York, L.A., Miami, Universities, hospitals, a militaristicly advanced war machine, space centers, and automobiles out of it.

Dont tell me there are no superior cultures.
Way to make our side look bad.

Way to make our side look bad.
Our side? Since when are we on the same side?:confused:

Except when it wasn't convenient. Which was pretty much always.

Or when it was rejected for ideological reasons - by the Nazis, some of the Communists, religious fundamentalists, anti-democrats.... Were they not "Western"?
Those groups were generally fringe minorities, or only majorities for brief periods of time.

It's because of the west's dominant liberal ideology that these groups were allowed to exist.

Our side? Since when are we on the same side?:confused:
On this issue we are. Western civilization is superior, but that's despite people like you.

Please, they didnt have the means to do it, regardless of if they wanted to or not. We did, and still do.

And for that I don't respect your pro-murder culture.

If we're going to talk about how all other cultures are equal to ours, what about Aztec culture? Their society practiced human sacrifice to a huge scale, cutting out their victims' hearts while fully concious. Surely even the most politically correct people here can't honestly say a culture like that was equal to ours.

And for that I don't respect your pro-murder culture.
Yeah, cus Asia is such a peacful place.:rolleyes:

On this issue we are. Western civilization is superior, but that's despite people like you.
If you dont agree with my post...then we can hardly be on the same side on this issue...because I clearly stated my opinions in the post that YOU *disagreed* with.

Let me lay it out for you, if you disagreed with that post, we are not on the same side.

And forgive me for not feeling bad about myself for comparing what Europeans have done to this land and what Indians ...did....to this land.:rolleyes:

And if you want to get personal, Western Civilization would shit if it was founded on your ideas, the very ideals that let millions die becaue you dont wanna waste a few dollars on saving lives and stopping genocides. Pffft, if thats not more pathetic than showing that Americans have done way more to this land than Indians...than I dont know what is.
:rolleyes:

Those groups were generally fringe minorities, or only majorities for brief periods of time.

You think liberalism was in the majority from 1789 onward? When a good number of its advocates then would likely be seen as reactionaries today?

Even today, there's plenty of skepticism.

It's because of the west's dominant liberal ideology that these groups were allowed to exist.

No, it's because liberalism wasn't dominant, and throughout most of the history of Western culture it hasn't been dominant. The fierce resistance to liberal ideas embodied by people like the Nazis is indicative of just how much Western culture is not wholly liberal.

Liberalism is dominant today in the US and Western Europe. That's why the Christian fundamentalists are screaming; they've lost. And that's why anyone trying to advocate fascism would be hopeless politically in today's environment - unlike in the 1930s.

Yeah, cus Asia is such a peacful place.:rolleyes:and Africa...and South America....:rolleyes:

And for that I don't respect your pro-murder culture.
Oh please, like America is the first country that has waged war and murdered....ever heard of the native American civilizations? Africa?? Asian???!!!

Thats a pathetic comeback....please, think a bit and reply again.

You think liberalism was in the majority from 1789 onward? When a good number of its advocates then would likely be seen as reactionaries today?

Even today, there's plenty of skepticism.



No, it's because liberalism wasn't dominant, and throughout most of the history of Western culture it hasn't been dominant. The fierce resistance to liberal ideas embodied by people like the Nazis is indicative of just how much Western culture is not wholly liberal.

Liberalism is dominant today in the US and Western Europe. That's why the Christian fundamentalists are screaming; they've lost. And that's why anyone trying to advocate fascism would be hopeless politically in today's environment - unlike in the 1930s.
Agreed. Liberalism has only recently been a dominant factor in Western Soceity...but even before, what we had was loads better than what non-Europeans had...although they are always exceptions.

Excuse me while I go feel bad.....:rolleyes:
Squeeze your teddy bear tight and think about all the things that make you smile.

Squeeze your teddy bear tight and think about all the things that make you smile.
Uh..I dont...errr...huh...umm... What?:confused:

Liberalism is dominant today in the US and Western Europe. That's why the Christian fundamentalists are screaming; they've lost. And that's why anyone trying to advocate fascism would be hopeless politically in today's environment - unlike in the 1930s.
Which is why I usually say Modern Western Culture.
And if you want to get personal, Western Civilization would shit if it was founded on your ideas, the very ideals that let millions die becaue you dont wanna waste a few dollars on saving lives and stopping genocidesYou always do bring that up and after all this time you still fail to see the point.
Pffft, if thats not more pathetic than showing that Americans have done way more to this land than Indians...than I dont know what is.
I thought Amerindians were Americans, at least now.

Which is why I usually say Modern Western Culture.

Why not just say "liberalism"?

Even today, we have lots of trash and irrelevancies mixed in.

You always do bring that up and after all this time you still fail to see the point.

I thought Amerindians were Americans, at least now.

I always bring it up because it is a MAJOR beleif on your part.

And Amerindians werent Americans.....North Americans, yes...but not Americans, because they hadnt founded the country America..only lived on the continent we call North America.

Why not just say "liberalism"?

Even today, we have lots of trash and irrelevancies mixed in.
Because even liberal countries that aren't westernized enough have pretty major flaws in their society. Japan for example.

Why not just say "liberalism"?

Even today, we have lots of trash and irrelevancies mixed in.
Because Western Culture is much broader...Liberalism is just an idea and an element of Western Culture.

I always bring it up because it is a MAJOR beleif on your part.
Is it? I wasn’t aware. Most Americans at that time didn’t know about the holocaust, they just wanted to fight a war with a nation barely involved with Pearl Harbor, but thanks to that war, Vietnam and the recent Iraq fiasco, Americans are developing a comfortable reluctance to war that fits in nicely with our European allies.
One of the high points of modern Western culture is our notion that violence, while entertaining, is something to avoid.
And Amerindians werent Americans.....North Americans, yes...but not Americans, because they hadnt founded the country America..only lived on the continent we call North America.
They are certainly Americans now, though.

Is it? I wasn’t aware. Most Americans at that time didn’t know about the holocaust, they just wanted to fight a war with a nation barely involved with Pearl Harbor, but thanks to that war, Vietnam and the recent Iraq fiasco, Americans are developing a comfortable reluctance to war that fits in nicely with our European allies.
One of the high points of modern Western culture is our notion that violence, while entertaining, is something to avoid.

They are certainly Americans now, though.
War, though hopefully avoidable, is sometimes not...as in the case of WWII, anyone who claims we should have been neutral and isolationist during WWII given that they know the holocaust happend...is lacking on morals..in my opinion. Although, I sorta agree with your second point.

They are certainly Americans now, though.
Nobody is denying that.

Don't worry folks. Once the West and NationStates General achieves its wet dream of eradicating Islam and non-Jewish Middle Eastern culture they might turn to Asia for the N3xt 3b1l R3l1G10n to wipe out.

Truth is called hate by those who hate the truth.

Western nations/culture pw3ns third world culture/nations

:p

Nations that've gone downhill since we introduced our 'superior' culture.

I most certainly am tired about people trying to somehow prove that "Western" culture is somehow superior to other cultures.

Two words for you, pal: Nobel Prizes.

Western culture advances civilization. No other "culture" can make that statement. Deal with it :p

Fortunately for them, they're allowed to piggyback on Western culture. :D :D :D

Don't worry folks. Once the West and NationStates General achieves its wet dream of eradicating Islam and non-Jewish Middle Eastern culture they might turn to Asia for the N3xt 3b1l R3l1G10n to wipe out.

Congratulations for reducing the IQ of this thread to single digits with that brilliant observation.

Actually, our next target will be self-loathing Westerners and wannabe dhimmis. Consider yourself warned :p

The west is the best. hey that rhymed. Anyway its true and if you disagree call me a bigot, I could care less really. Anyone who says the west isnt is just kidding themselves.

The west is the best. hey that rhymed. Anyway its true and if you disagree call me a bigot, I could care less really. Anyone who says the west isnt is just kidding themselves.

We have too many furries to be the best at anything, in the West.

Congratulations for reducing the IQ of this thread to single digits with that brilliant observation.

Actually, our next target will be self-loathing Westerners and wannabe dhimmis. Consider yourself warned :p

Assuming anyone who don't think Muslims are animals that need to be put down are automatically "dhimmis" and making personal threats. Going for a double feature I see.

You zealots can believe what you want to believe, but never forget that your attitude is exactly the same one that brought about western imperialism in the 19th and early 20th centuries, and if you are ignorant of all of the atrocities that caused then you are the lowest of human beings.

You zealots can believe what you want to believe, but never forget that your attitude is exactly the same one that brought about western imperialism in the 19th and early 20th centuries, and if you are ignorant of all of the atrocities that caused then you are the lowest of human beings.
Perhaps we arent ignorant at all, we just dont care about said atrocities.

Perhaps we arent ignorant at all, we just dont care about said atrocities.

So, you're good with all the cultural genocide?

Me too. Oh no! I've committed a non-PC thought crime by questioning the idea of cultural relativism!
Damn! Didn't think of doing that... :(

I didn't want to do this...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b88/lunarsandwich/ROFLMEN.jpg

HOW THE HELL CAN THIS BE A PRODUCT OF A SUPERIOR CULTURE?

There are no superior cultures, just different ones.

*sips tea*

I didn't want to do this...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b88/lunarsandwich/ROFLMEN.jpg

HOW THE HELL CAN THIS BE A PRODUCT OF A SUPERIOR CULTURE?
Ahh diversity.

There are no superior cultures, just different ones.

*sips tea*
You know how some Africans practice female circumcision?

Yeah, well put the shit they cut off of her vagina in your tea and sip that......THEN say that there are no superior cultures, just different ones.

I most certainly am tired about people trying to somehow prove that "Western" culture is somehow superior to other cultures.

In defense of "Western" culture, I'd say that some East Asian cultures are just as Xenophobia and (self)cultural-centric.

You know how some Africans practice female circumcision?

Yeah, well put the shit they cut off of her vagina in your tea and sip that......THEN say that there are no superior cultures, just different ones.
I've seen a documentary on this.

That is their tradition.

I've seen a documentary on this.

That is their tradition.
And...its wrong.

How'd you like to be that girl who gets her clit cut and her vagina mutalated?

Or better yet...how'd you like to be the slave wife of an arab man who gets beaten and raped daily for allowing herself to be raped...simply because, its their tradition?

Come on dude, you're smarter than this, and you know this IS a right and wrong...and some things, regardless of tradition are not...are JUST wrong.

Speaking as a freedom-hating Islamic Jihadist, I must say that the arrogance of the West typified by this forum's inhabitants is astounding. You continue to oppress the third world and force us to manufacture your cheap, disposable commercial goods, all the while insisting that we ourselves live our lives simply to acquire more of such trash.

I mean, seriously, your consumer products and your media are everywhere! I don't want to switch to Geico, or pay 3.95 USD for a Tickle-Me-Elmo doll, or a dollar for one of your repulsive, tooth-rotting carbonated drinks, even if I can get them at Walmart. Yet your television broadcasts and advertising insist that I must have them to find happiness.

Not to mention the perversity of your women. Do you realize how many of our young Jihadists have fallen from Allah's graces because they were seduced by copies of your Playboy magazines?! The next time I see a Muslim boy beating off to a picutre of nude or scantily-clad American woman, I'll consider strapping the dynamite to myself. Jesus Christ, why the hell can't you Westerners just wear burkas, stop shaving, and worship Allah?

And...its wrong.

How'd you like to be that girl who gets her clit cut and her vagina mutalated?
But see, it's wrong to us because in our culture, we simply don't do that.

In the documentary, the mother had it done to her when she was a child, and had it done to her daughters.

She wasn't doing it to punish or turture them.
Or better yet...how'd you like to be the slave wife of an arab man who gets beaten and raped daily for allowing herself to be raped...simply because, its their tradition?
I don't know how to.. reply to this..

Of course it's wrong, by our standards. *shrugs*

A pretty fucked up thing that it'd be done if you ask me.
Come on dude, you're smarter than this, and you know this IS a right and wrong...and some things, regardless of tradition are not...are JUST wrong.
Etiquette changes from place to place.

Etiquette changes from place to place.

And time to time. Given that throughout history it's been considered 'okay' to go out and fuck your cousin here in the West, I think it's pretty silly talking in absolutes.

But see, it's wrong to us because in our culture, we simply don't do that.

In the documentary, the mother had it done to her when she was a child, and had it done to her daughters.

She wasn't doing it to punish or turture them.

I don't know how to.. reply to this..

Of course it's wrong, by our standards. *shrugs*

A pretty fucked up thing that it'd be done if you ask me.

Etiquette changes from place to place.
Come on man! Our constitution! We are all endowed by our creator certain unalianable rights...or something like that!

Dont you think it is universally wrong, no matter where, to be slaughtered and raped, for "allowing" yourself to be raped!?!

We are all people with a right to live on this earth. Taking away that right from someone is WRONG, no matter what country/culture it is in.

How can you not see that. Moral relatavism is for the apethic and the assholes..You are neither, and we both know that.

Dont think like this, Ruffy.:(

And time to time. Given that throughout history it's been considered 'okay' to go out and fuck your cousin here in the West, I think it's pretty silly talking in absolutes.
Cultures do evolve.

*nods*

Is the right to a clitoris in the constitution? Sick person rofl.

Come on man! Our constitution! We are all endowed by our creator certain unalianable rights...or something like that!

Dont you think it is universally wrong, no matter where, to be slaughtered and raped, for "allowing" yourself to be raped!?!

We are all people with a right to live on this earth. Taking away that right from someone is WRONG, no matter what country/culture it is in.

How can you not see that. Moral relatavism is for the apethic and the assholes..You are neither, and we both know that.

Dont think like this, Ruffy.:(
I completely agree with you, but some people see things differently.

*feels the urge to yell "Damn them and their extremism
!" but doesn't because he is too tired to know if that makes any sense*

I take the badge of 'apathetic asshole' proudly. I'll put it next to the other badges of honour.

I take the badge of 'apathetic asshole' proudly. I'll put it next to the other badges of honour.
I'd share my apathetic cookies with you, but I don't care. :p

Judging by your location being 'the yarra' I would say Italian. :p

So far as I know, "yarra" is an aboriginal word meaning "water". So that means Melbourne's main river is the "water river". Kinda makes sense although many people think it's more mud and pollution than water.

What is western culture?
The idea that human rights trump collectivist/theocratic doctrines.The idea that human rights trump collectivist/theocratic doctrines.

I can't agree. On a political level I think that the prevailing situation in the west is that individuals are subservient to collective corporations and that their principle role is to be a compliant consumers.

A worrying aspect of this is that another type of collective - organised religion - is allying itself with corporations to further their own agendas.

This may seem to contradict my earlier post about culture changing rapidly. In that post I was referring to culture on a more day-to-day level, ie what I eat, read, listen to, who I interact with, etc.

I think all societies are a battleground of ideas. Unfortunately corporate collectivism has the upper hand in the west.

So, you're good with all the cultural genocide?
I thought that was already implied in my statement...

I most certainly am tired about people trying to somehow prove that "Western" culture is somehow superior to other cultures.
Excuse me, i am from the East and i hate Foriegners!:mad:

That is a arrogant poll.

how is western culture bad? we are the ones who built the railways in india and one who built the oil refineries in the middle east.

We made the gold mines in africa and the technology that powers Asia.

Without the west the world would simply not be the same.

Im not a bigot but i do know that my culture did allot of good things, remember that.

Besides what country does not let any immigrates come because they want to keep themselves pure JAPAN WHICH IS IN THE EAST BUY A COMPASS.

And Amerindians werent Americans.....North Americans, yes...but not Americans, because they hadnt founded the country America..only lived on the continent we call North America.
Except for the oddity that our Constitution was based off the Iriquois Federation's, and explicitly states the sovereignty that the Indians retain as higher-class citizens than the rest of us shmucks (not being taxed and being allowed to take peyote would be nifty, but alas, my family came over on the Mayflower).

Come on man! Our constitution! We are all endowed by our creator certain unalianable rights...or something like that!
That's the Declaration of Independence, chachi. The Drafters of the Constitution did a very careful job not including God in the Constitution at all. Also, other than saying that we're no longer part of the UK, the Declaration has no legal authority.

I most certainly am tired about people trying to somehow prove that "Western" culture is somehow superior to other cultures.
Firstly, I find it odd that you put "western" in quotes. Do you suspect that Greco-Roman-Germanic culture somehow did not originate on the western side of the Eurasian landmass? Is it part of some conspiricy that was set up somehow by the Bush family, the GOP and the entire consumerist empire 2000 years before any of those things existed? Am I being presumptious about your idiotic views? Well, I truly am sorry, I am mearly a product of roughly 3000 years of political, philosophical and scientific thought known as Western Society. You're correct, as I think of it. Western culture is definately inferior. I mean, why have double-blind studies, the hippocratic oath, and extensive medical research when you can just kill a panda and eat its gallbladder for health. Does it work? No! But who cares if an entire species is driven to extinction and hundreds of humans die both due to an outdated belief system based purely on fallacy? The belief and faith in western scientific thought would be xenophobic! Oh the horrors of falling prey to a psychological affliction first described by my fellow westerners and named using the respected languages of western scientific study! And why should I believe that women have the same rights as men? The beliefs of John and Abigail Adams are too Occidental-centric. No, It's better to embrace the practice of burning widows to death at their husbands' funeral. Or perhaps the practice of cutting off the lion's share of a girl's vagina sans anasthesia when she reaches puberty. Or perhaps the practice of auctioning off a daughter to the highest bidder as soon as she has her first period. Or perhaps the practice of breaking the bones of a young girl's feet and binding them until they're less than four inches long. Actually, I should embrace them all, because none of those practices are western, and I wouldn't want to appear as though western culture is superior. The rights of man as citizen? Fuck that noise! Give me an emperor-god to whom I am constant slave and servant any day! That all men are created equal and are endowed with their creator the rights of life, liberty, and property, for which governments are instituted amongst men to secure these rights, and when a government fails to secure said rights, it is the right of men to rebel against that government? Sounds like a load of Western bullshit to me. Where's my oppresive caste system enforsed by strict religious dogma that allows members of a higher caste to kill me if I touch them? Hell, if they're high enough above me, all I have to do is look at them! Tried by a jury of my peers and the right to face my accuser? Hey now, if some random person I've never met accuses me of something, I should have my hands cut off without anyone ever looking at any evidence I may have to maintain my evidence. Anything else would be prohibitively pro-western and bigoted.

In conclusion, if you really don't think that Western society is the best, you need to take some sort of social sciences class desperately. It's not perfect, and at times it's downright terrible, but it's still the best out there BY FAR. If any of you are thinking about posting, "the quote is 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness'", you desperately need to read Common Sense by Thomas Paine. Essentially, the US wouldn't exist if it hadn't been published. So, Non-Western Culture:0, Western Culture:∞

That is a arrogant poll.

how is western culture bad? we are the ones who built the railways in india and one who built the oil refineries in the middle east.

We made the gold mines in africa and the technology that powers Asia.

Without the west the world would simply not be the same.

Im not a bigot but i do know that my culture did allot of good things, remember that.

Besides what country does not let any immigrates come because they want to keep themselves pure JAPAN WHICH IS IN THE EAST BUY A COMPASS.

How are the gold mines in Africa something to be proud of?

As long as a culture does not allow:

murder (their life is not your possession. This includes the death penalty. And animals I consider semi-sentient (dogs, monkeys, etc. (though dogs are higher on the moral list than monkeys. Why? Cuz that is how it is.))
rape (Come on. Do you have to ask? Implanting a tumor-esque growth in a woman? That is wrong unless she OKs it...)
unconsented mutilation (We can't regrow some things, and it hurts. Criminal punishment may be exempt, though...)
excessive stealing (That is not yours. They WORKED for that. Get your dirty hands off.)
forced decisions (That is THEIR choice, not yours. Let THEM decide.)

and other such things (I can't list everything morally objectionable...)


They are fine with me.
Also, freedom to marry who you want to (including 5 wives, 2 husbands, and a rock) and the ability for a woman to get an early abortion is a plus to me.

You know how some Africans practice female circumcision?

Yeah, well put the shit they cut off of her vagina in your tea and sip that......THEN say that there are no superior cultures, just different ones.

...then add a couple of foreskins for flavor.

...then add a couple of foreskins for flavor.
lol

Firstly, I find it odd that you put "western" in quotes. Do you suspect that Greco-Roman-Germanic culture somehow did not originate on the western side of the Eurasian landmass? Is it part of some conspiricy that was set up somehow by the Bush family, the GOP and the entire consumerist empire 2000 years before any of those things existed? Am I being presumptious about your idiotic views? Well, I truly am sorry, I am mearly a product of roughly 3000 years of political, philosophical and scientific thought known as Western Society. You're correct, as I think of it. Western culture is definately inferior. I mean, why have double-blind studies, the hippocratic oath, and extensive medical research when you can just kill a panda and eat its gallbladder for health. Does it work? No! But who cares if an entire species is driven to extinction and hundreds of humans die both due to an outdated belief system based purely on fallacy? The belief and faith in western scientific thought would be xenophobic! Oh the horrors of falling prey to a psychological affliction first described by my fellow westerners and named using the respected languages of western scientific study! And why should I believe that women have the same rights as men? The beliefs of John and Abigail Adams are too Occidental-centric. No, It's better to embrace the practice of burning widows to death at their husbands' funeral. Or perhaps the practice of cutting off the lion's share of a girl's vagina sans anasthesia when she reaches puberty. Or perhaps the practice of auctioning off a daughter to the highest bidder as soon as she has her first period. Or perhaps the practice of breaking the bones of a young girl's feet and binding them until they're less than four inches long. Actually, I should embrace them all, because none of those practices are western, and I wouldn't want to appear as though western culture is superior. The rights of man as citizen? Fuck that noise! Give me an emperor-god to whom I am constant slave and servant any day! That all men are created equal and are endowed with their creator the rights of life, liberty, and property, for which governments are instituted amongst men to secure these rights, and when a government fails to secure said rights, it is the right of men to rebel against that government? Sounds like a load of Western bullshit to me. Where's my oppresive caste system enforsed by strict religious dogma that allows members of a higher caste to kill me if I touch them? Hell, if they're high enough above me, all I have to do is look at them! Tried by a jury of my peers and the right to face my accuser? Hey now, if some random person I've never met accuses me of something, I should have my hands cut off without anyone ever looking at any evidence I may have to maintain my evidence. Anything else would be prohibitively pro-western and bigoted.

In conclusion, if you really don't think that Western society is the best, you need to take some sort of social sciences class desperately. It's not perfect, and at times it's downright terrible, but it's still the best out there BY FAR. If any of you are thinking about posting, "the quote is 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness'", you desperately need to read Common Sense by Thomas Paine. Essentially, the US wouldn't exist if it hadn't been published. So, Non-Western Culture:0, Western Culture:∞


Well said.

Western culture works and has produced results that benefit the entire human race. Is it perfect? Nope. Does it have a lot of problems? You bet. Is it so clearly superior to other cultures that virtually all immigration (legal and illegal) is into Western societies rather than out of them and into those dominated by some other culture? The question answers itself.

Western culture is better. That is a fact. Those who want to deny that fact are free to do so (another superior feature of Western culture, btw), and are free to look like fools when they do so.

Yogurt is a superior culture.

:)

Yogurt is a superior culture.:)

What about cheese? :(

What about cheese? :(

Yes. I endorse cheese cultures. *nod*

That is a arrogant poll.

how is western culture bad? we are the ones who built the railways in india and one who built the oil refineries in the middle east.

We made the gold mines in africa and the technology that powers Asia.

Without the west the world would simply not be the same.

Im not a bigot but i do know that my culture did allot of good things, remember that.

Besides what country does not let any immigrates come because they want to keep themselves pure JAPAN WHICH IS IN THE EAST BUY A COMPASS.
Having a "superior culture" has little to do with technologic advancements. Europe mis-used their knowledge in the past for being superior in war and they combined with the will to use it, with imperialistic success. A long time people believed that they somehow had earned the right to be the better ones because of this. Apparently some believe this still.

Many decades from now, the most liveable places will be the ones that were the least influenced by western ways.

Yeah, cus Asia is such a peacful place.:rolleyes:
I was more comparing America to Europe. Western culture has subdivisions.

Oh please, like America is the first country that has waged war and murdered....ever heard of the native American civilizations? Africa?? Asian???!!!

It's not the only country ever to wage war and committ mass murder. However, it is the only western country that really celebrates it. In Europe the idea of "justified homocide" (in response to thieves and trespassers) is frowned upon. We respect human life here. Americans don't, at least not to the same extent.

No, it's because liberalism wasn't dominant, and throughout most of the history of Western culture it hasn't been dominant. The fierce resistance to liberal ideas embodied by people like the Nazis is indicative of just how much Western culture is not wholly liberal.
But it was mostly liberal.

Liberalism is dominant today in the US and Western Europe. That's why the Christian fundamentalists are screaming; they've lost. And that's why anyone trying to advocate fascism would be hopeless politically in today's environment - unlike in the 1930s.
That's what I mean. Eastern Europe is also liberal now.

Don't worry folks. Once the West and NationStates General achieves its wet dream of eradicating Islam and non-Jewish Middle Eastern culture they might turn to Asia for the N3xt 3b1l R3l1G10n to wipe out.
We want what???

Are you one of these people that hates liberalism?

Assuming anyone who don't think Muslims are animals that need to be put down are automatically "dhimmis" and making personal threats. Going for a double feature I see.
Assuming that anyone who doesn't think that women should have to live under Sharia law thinks that Muslims are animals that need to be put down, is just as bad.

www.amnesty.org

You zealots can believe what you want to believe, but never forget that your attitude is exactly the same one that brought about western imperialism in the 19th and early 20th centuries, and if you are ignorant of all of the atrocities that caused then you are the lowest of human beings.
I'm in favour of human rights, not war and atrocities. :confused:

But see, it's wrong to us because in our culture, we simply don't do that.
Because we're civilised and respect human rights.

I completely agree with you, but some people see things differently.
So you think it is universally wrong, no matter where, to be slaughtered and raped. I agree. Now if you believe that then you must surely dismiss the opinions of those who think that it's their right to slaughter and rape people. Not only must you dismiss them, you must try to prevent them from forcing their will on other people.

I'm terrified of my upcoming stay in Japan, but I know it'll give me an opportunity to spend some time as the highly suspect, crime-prone minority for once.

It should give me a new perspective on the way we treat minorities and immigrants back home in the States.

And of course the thread has some examples that the notion of The White Man's Burden is still alive and well in the hearts of many.

Of course Russian culture is superior.

One can always trust you to use twisted logic to rationalize your war-mongering ways.

We aren't even talking about making war here, and you go off on a rabbit trail...

Of course, Western nations would own the 3rd world in war, too.

Southern culture is superior.

Because we're civilised and respect human rights.
No, because we have a different view on things than they do.
So you think it is universally wrong, no matter where, to be slaughtered and raped. I agree.
Of course.
Now if you believe that then you must surely dismiss the opinions of those who think that it's their right to slaughter and rape people. Not only must you dismiss them, you must try to prevent them from forcing their will on other people.
I think I'm going to sound like an asshole here, but it's what they do.

Their views on that, are that it is ok to do.

Southern culture is superior.

Mah mother's mah sister!

I most certainly am tired about people trying to somehow prove that "Western" culture is somehow superior to other cultures.
If you think Western culture is not superior, you're more than welcome to go live in Saudi Arabia or China.

Western civilization has produced the highest level of scientific, cultural, intellectual, and economical advancement in recorded history.

Southern culture is superior.
Umm, how? It's the Taliban/Iran of western civilisation. An embarrasment really.

No, because we have a different view on things than they do.

The majority in some places may support these things, and obviously they have a different view. But individuals have some rights that majority opinion should have no effect on.

How can we condemn the US South for rejecting gay marriage, but not condemn Iran for rejecting gay peoples' right to live?

How can you not see that. Moral relatavism is for the apethic and the assholes..You are neither, and we both know that.

Do you know what "moral relativism" is?

Umm, how? It's the Taliban/Iran of western civilisation. An embarrasment really.


The majority in some places may support these things, and obviously they have a different view. But individuals have some rights that majority opinion should have no effect on.

How can we condemn the US South for rejecting gay marriage, but not condemn Iran for rejecting gay peoples' right to live?

It's the south. We hold to our values, dearly.

In the south, gay people aren't hanged for being gay. In iran, they ARE, along with a few friends, just to be 'sure' :mad:

Mah mother's mah sister!

Incest. Why go down the street when you can go one room over :p ?

It's the south. We hold to our values, dearly.

And I'm sure the Iranian fundamentalists who murder gays and oppress women see themselves as only holding on to their values, too.

That's no excuse. Nor is "but they're worse than we are!"

And I'm sure the Iranian fundamentalists who murder gays and oppress women see themselves as only holding on to their values, too.

That's no excuse. Nor is "but they're worse than we are!"
Yes.

I also love how Biased Sample is used to defend the perceived "cultural superiority" of the West. Like how Nigerian Female Circumcision alone is held up as the sole evidence of how the West is better than the rest of the world.

Yeah, as if the rest of the world gets off on female genital mutilation.

:rolleyes:

Or how a few insane zealots that ought to be shot on the spot go beheading hostages is irrefutable proof that Islam is t3h ub3r3b1l r3l1g1on that needs to be wiped out down to the last man, woman and child.

Yeah, give the Fundies their own Kingdom of Gilead and let's see if they'll remain civilized. The Muslims weren't the ones who started the Salem Witch Trials after all.

I also love how Biased Sample is used to defend the perceived "cultural superiority" of the West. Like how Nigerian Female Circumcision alone is held up as the sole evidence of how the West is better than the rest of the world.

Yeah, as if the rest of the world gets off on female genital mutilation.
If FGM isn't your thing, various world cultures can also offer you

Rape and violence against women (http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAFR510092006) hey, it's just their culture to rape and hurt, right?

imprisonment for dissent (http://web.amnesty.org/pages/irn-280706-interview-eng)

execution of minors (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5217424.stm) also note the paedo-tastic age of consent in the relevant country.

execution for adultery (http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE130832006?open&of=ENG-2MD) the right to live is only for us western white people, right? not for Muslim women :rolleyes:

assault on minorities (http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE130562006?open&of=ENG-2MD)

genocidal racism (http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAFR540262006?open&of=ENG-2AF)

Rejection of the right to a fair trial (http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR511142006?open&of=ENG-2AM)

Surf around some more, that's just a scrape on the surface. All humans have human rights. In some cultures they are violated more than others. Now unless you're going to tell me that every culture and country lets its citizens retain their human rights as much as European culture does, surely sthese other cultures are not just "different", they're worse.

That doesn't mean I think wars should be used to solve problems like this. That's just moronic.

Or how a few insane zealots that ought to be shot on the spot go beheading hostages is irrefutable proof that Islam is t3h ub3r3b1l r3l1g1on that needs to be wiped out down to the last man, woman and child.
Can't you go a post without saying "OMG every1 who criticises Islamic extremism wants to KILL all Muslims!!!"

"everyone" isn't Designated Marksman or Deep Kimchi.

Yeah, give the Fundies their own Kingdom of Gilead and let's see if they'll remain civilized.
Fundie Christians, fundie Muslims. Not much difference really. Maybe you should learn that.

I also love how Biased Sample is used to defend the perceived "cultural superiority" of the West. Like how Nigerian Female Circumcision alone is held up as the sole evidence of how the West is better than the rest of the world.

Yeah, as if the rest of the world gets off on female genital mutilation.

:rolleyes:

Or how a few insane zealots that ought to be shot on the spot go beheading hostages is irrefutable proof that Islam is t3h ub3r3b1l r3l1g1on that needs to be wiped out down to the last man, woman and child.

Yeah, give the Fundies their own Kingdom of Gilead and let's see if they'll remain civilized. The Muslims weren't the ones who started the Salem Witch Trials after all.

Using my powers of journalism major, I shall translate this from holier-than-thou cultural relativist to English so that we may all understand this post.

*Ahem*

"It's unfair to describe the bad things about other cultures to describe how they're bad! For example, female genital mutilation, which I'll downplay by falsly describing it as only taking place in one part of Africa, is being exposed, and that makes non-western cultures look bad.

I'll make a dubious claim that anyone said that all non-western societies practice FGM.

(Here is placed a symbol in their language that comes after spotty logic is used that is meant to coax agreement by using pretty colors)

I believe highly in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, and oppose any form of innocence until guilt is proven. I'm going to assume that western society believes the same, but on a cultural level.

Let's see if the most backwards group in western culture can survive as their own country. After all, the atrocities commited by muslims is obviously outweighed by the only deplorable action that the backwards western group commited."

Pfft, Western culture produces people who paint their faces with menstrual blood and photo it for slavering freaks. I don't think I have to say any more.
That's an endorsement of Western Culture, though you don't see it. People are FREE to do that because it harms nobody. Personal expression is a good thing. In some countries that could get you locked up and tortured.

Im tired of the Nazi/Stalin-ish "unite against a common enemy" bullshit.

Apparently, I'm going to PC Hell for this poll.

I'm definitely for more bigotry. *votes*

The trouble with culture is that it's hard to opt out. I mean, if someone volunteers, without coercion, to be subject to whatever crazy rules some culture thinks (e.g. submitting to the opposite gender, following <insert religion here>, etc.) then they can go ahead. But most people aren't given that choice.

The trouble with culture is that it's hard to opt out. I mean, if someone volunteers, without coercion, to be subject to whatever crazy rules some culture thinks (e.g. submitting to the opposite gender, following <insert religion here>, etc.) then they can go ahead. But most people aren't given that choice.
Yes. Some on the left seem to have abandoned all support for women's rights, secularism, human rights, equality, and international socialism. In favour of the for-some-reason sacred cow of cultural relativism.

Speaking of which, where's Gauthier?

All cultures have their "barbarities" which are based in unsupportable prejudices. What determines the value of the current people of a society is their willingness to try to rise above their past and move forward. "Western" culture, has not significantly moved forward in many years, and in places like the US, it is in danger of falling backwards onto old religious and racial prejudices. You cannot judge the individuals of society by the culture that they are part of, you can only judge individuals on their own merits.

All cultures have their "barbarities" which are based in unsupportable prejudices. What determines the value of the current people of a society is their willingness to try to rise above their past and move forward. "Western" culture, has not significantly moved forward in many years

Seriously? In the past 15 years in Europe we're moving towards acceptance of gay people as fully equal citizens, and decriminalisation of marajuana.

and in places like the US, it is in danger of falling backwards onto old religious and racial prejudices. You cannot judge the individuals of society by the culture that they are part of, you can only judge individuals on their own merits.
I partially blame cultures for the actions of individuals.

Seriously? In the past 15 years in Europe we're moving towards acceptance of gay people as fully equal citizens, and decriminalisation of marajuana.

There is a big different difference between decriminalizing behavior and actually accepting it into your schemata of thinking. Just because blacks were given equal rights by Constitution in the US doesn't mean that after 150 years they are close to really realizing them in everyone's minds.

I partially blame cultures for the actions of individuals.

I blame it on the individuals who are in power in the society.

Using my powers of journalism major, I shall translate this from holier-than-thou cultural relativist to English so that we may all understand this post.

Translation: "Using my powers of journalism major and cultural supremacism, I shall miss this point completely and straw man this into a non-existent defense of barbaric practices."

*Ahem*

"It's unfair to describe the bad things about other cultures to describe how they're bad! For example, female genital mutilation, which I'll downplay by falsly describing it as only taking place in one part of Africa, is being exposed, and that makes non-western cultures look bad.

I'll make a dubious claim that anyone said that all non-western societies practice FGM.

Translation: "I will continue to harp on female genital mutilation as Exhibit A through Z on indicting the rest of the world as being savage and inferior to the West, we'll just leave out the hundreds of years of sordid Western behavior such as the Conquest of the New World, the Spanish Inquisition, the Hundred Years War and all those other stuff because frankly it's the past and we want to harp on how we're better than those dirty savages."

(Here is placed a symbol in their language that comes after spotty logic is used that is meant to coax agreement by using pretty colors)

I believe highly in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, and oppose any form of innocence until guilt is proven. I'm going to assume that western society believes the same, but on a cultural level.

Translation: "I will demonize opposing viewpoints by accusing the other side of explicitly supporting eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, and Guilty Until Proven Innocent, without any real proof that they actually believe in that savae nonsense of course. Ad Hominems can be fun!"

Let's see if the most backwards group in western culture can survive as their own country. After all, the atrocities commited by muslims is obviously outweighed by the only deplorable action that the backwards western group commited."

Translation: "We'll continue to imply that only Muslims commit atrocities because it's in their nature and celebrate how we're so much better than all of them. We'll ignore the fact that the only reason Christians are so civilized is because they live in secular nations that aren't under their complete control. We'll also ignore the fact that Muslims number in the billions and the 'Liberal Media' only focuses on the most violent and extreme portion of the demographics because violent news sells and it's easier to assume all Muslims are terrorists by heart."

Yes. Some on the left seem to have abandoned all support for women's rights, secularism, human rights, equality, and international socialism. In favour of the for-some-reason sacred cow of cultural relativism.

Speaking of which, where's Gauthier?

I love it when people try to polarize and put spin on an argument, in this case a False Dilemma to say "You either assume Western Culture is better than everything else or you are in fact supporting the Taliban."

Nothing supports women's right like the drive to overturn Roe v Wade.

Nothing supports secularism like the push for Intelligent Design, School Prayer and Faith-Based Initiative.

And nothing supports human rights like keeping the Red Cross out of Guantanamo.

Cultural Supremacism is a key ingredient in Colonialism. Kipling pretty much hit the nail on the head when he wrote "The White Man's Burden." And that attitude is still alive and well today.

I was more comparing America to Europe. Western culture has subdivisions. No, you were comparing Neo-Nazi land, over in Fascistville to Europe. You were comparing a place that doesn't exist, to Europe. Have you even been to America?


It's not the only country ever to wage war and committ mass murder. However, it is the only western country that really celebrates it. In Europe the idea of "justified homocide" (in response to thieves and trespassers) is frowned upon. We respect human life here. Americans don't, at least not to the same extent.
We don't celebrate it. I don't have parties that say "Yay! War!". I do believe that the Iraqi war was justified, but that doesn't mean I LOOOOOVE war. I don't think "Justified Homicide" is real, and in fact contradictory, however, I will argue that you have a right to defend yourself and your property from people who would steal/brake stuff. And since when in the past fifty-years have we killed 5,000 people in one day? That is mass murder. If you want to know mass murder, talk to a Haulocaust victim. That was millions of people, in four years, all horrific, brutal deaths. Oh, by the way, I'll want photos or video of this "mass murder". And I probably respect life much more than you do. It's amazing how much more you respect the fragality of life after you have killed something.


But it was mostly liberal.
It only got liberal quite recently, and still it has many of the "parts" (for lack of a better word) of Conservative, which, when taken in moderate amounts, is very good, same as liberalism. Stalinist Russia was a whole lot of liberalism, and Muslim Arab countries are a whole lot of Conservatism.


That's what I mean. Eastern Europe is also liberal now.
It was always liberal. Communism is liberalism.
Are you one of these people that hates liberalism?
[/QUOTE]

We want what???

Are you one of these people that hates liberalism?
I don't think so, but I have no idea what he meant either.

Assuming that anyone who doesn't think that women should have to live under Sharia law thinks that Muslims are animals that need to be put down, is just as bad. We don't think Muslims have to be put down like animals, we just think they should stop being so stupid and violent *cringes and wait for anti-America joke*

I'm in favour of human rights, not war and atrocities. So is America.

Yes. Some on the left seem to have abandoned all support for women's rights, secularism, human rights, equality, and international socialism. In favour of the for-some-reason sacred cow of cultural relativism.

What "left" is this?

I also love how Biased Sample is used to defend the perceived "cultural superiority" of the West. Like how Nigerian Female Circumcision alone is held up as the sole evidence of how the West is better than the rest of the world.

Yeah, as if the rest of the world gets off on female genital mutilation.

:rolleyes:

Or how a few insane zealots that ought to be shot on the spot go beheading hostages is irrefutable proof that Islam is t3h ub3r3b1l r3l1g1on that needs to be wiped out down to the last man, woman and child.

Yeah, give the Fundies their own Kingdom of Gilead and let's see if they'll remain civilized. The Muslims weren't the ones who started the Salem Witch Trials after all.
1. It takes an extremely sick culture to produce female circumcission.
2. It's much more than a few zealots, if you believe the statistic of 100 secterian deaths in Baghdad per day.
3. Remind me again, when the Salem Witch Trials happan, hmm? 100 years ago? 200? 300? or was it even 400?

1. It takes an extremely sick culture to produce female circumcission.
2. It's much more than a few zealots, if you believe the statistic of 100 secterian deaths in Baghdad per day.
3. Remind me again, when the Salem Witch Trials happan, hmm? 100 years ago? 200? 300? or was it even 400?

1) Then what would it say about the United States then? The home of the Heaven's Gate, Scientology, Moonies, the Branch Davidians, and the "Fundamentalist" Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter-Day Saints? Mind control and in the last two cases you add child molestation galore.

2) Do you have documented proof that an overwhelming majority of Muslims are fanatical zealots committing sectarian violence all over the world, not just in the shit hole that Iraq has become thanks to Dear Leader? Keep in mind the United States has a Muslim population too and you don't see them trying to kill each other.

3) Burden of Proof Fallacy. You're expecting modern examples of Christian-professed violence with the expectation that it's only Muslims who make a mess of things. How about the Lord's Resistant Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Resistant_Army) or the Christian Identity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_identity) movement? Those are a lot more recent than 100 years and they're both still around. You're also going to use the Burden of Proof Fallacy with regards to body counts of course, as if killing less people numerically makes such groups "not so bad" in comparison to the frequently publicized Islamist casualties.

1) Keep in mind the United States has a Muslim population too and you don't see them trying to kill each other.

That point does not work in your favor at all.

While I dont really believe in cultural dominance (Nationalism is not the same as xenophobia) and hope we can try to avoid violence, human nature ends up as the deciding factor in every human affair. That said, global darwinism will not go away, a societies success is it's survival. There is nothing practical or real about letting everyone live in reservations where they may never be touched. eventually there may be be enough people that a small african tribe cannot be allowed to keep its ancestral land. It is merely survival of the fittest on a global level.

That point does not work in your favor at all.

While I dont really believe in cultural dominance (Nationalism is not the same as xenophobia) and hope we can try to avoid violence, human nature ends up as the deciding factor in every human affair. That said, global darwinism will not go away, a societies success is it's survival. There is nothing practical or real about letting everyone live in reservations where they may never be touched. eventually there may be be enough people that a small african tribe cannot be allowed to keep its ancestral land. It is merely survival of the fittest on a global level.

Ahem, can we please not base political views off of "eventually there may be..."?

That point does not work in your favor at all.

Actually it does when it refutes the insinuation that Islam is inherently a violent and unstable religion.

While I dont really believe in cultural dominance (Nationalism is not the same as xenophobia) and hope we can try to avoid violence, human nature ends up as the deciding factor in every human affair. That said, global darwinism will not go away, a societies success is it's survival. There is nothing practical or real about letting everyone live in reservations where they may never be touched. eventually there may be be enough people that a small african tribe cannot be allowed to keep its ancestral land. It is merely survival of the fittest on a global level.

Darwinism has been used as a justification for everything from colonialism to eugenics. And however impractical reserving ethnic groups to crap patches of land supposedly is, you can see examples of it happening in more places than just the United States. The Palestinian Occupied Territories is if nothing but the world's largest reservation.

Ahem, can we please not base political views off of "eventually there may be..."?

Im doing no such thing. Such has already happened in the course of human history. When cultures clash, one inevitably overtakes the other.

Im doing no such thing. Such has already happened in the course of human history. When cultures clash, one inevitably overtakes the other.

Shhhh, that kind of talk will make people think you're not spending every day feeling sorry for the cultures that've been destroyed to make yours better, like the Native Americans or Africa.

Not really sure what side of that I'm putting across, but feel free to react to whichever ticks you off more.

Actually it does when it refutes the insinuation that Islam is inherently a violent and unstable religion.

Oh, it does that, but the way you worded it sounded ironically like: "Western muslims are more civilized.

Darwinism has been used as a justification for everything from colonialism to eugenics. And however impractical reserving ethnic groups to crap patches of land supposedly is, you can see examples of it happening in more places than just the United States. The Palestinian Occupied Territories is if nothing but the world's largest reservation.

Such a state of existence cannot perpetuate itself forever. I didnt say that there was anything wrong with it, but you cannot deny that it is, by it's nature, condescending. It only exists that way because it has been grantedd that status, by western powers which previously occupied it.

Shhhh, that kind of talk will make people think you're not spending every day feeling sorry for the cultures that've been destroyed to make yours better, like the Native Americans or Africa.

Not really sure what side of that I'm putting across, but feel free to react to whichever ticks you off more.

I dont tick off very easily. cultural adaption is a decent thing to bring up however. How "western" is western culture today anyway? It has borrowed or stolen from many cultures, adding to its global efficacy.

I dont tick off very easily. cultural adaption is a decent thing to bring up however. How "western" is western culture today anyway? It has borrowed or stolen from many cultures, adding to its global efficacy.

Considering that Europe was basically created from the Roman Empire, which was in turn a culture that stole from the northern Africans and mid-easterners, I'd wonder how western it's ever been.

We are the Borg. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.

Considering that Europe was basically created from the Roman Empire, which was in turn a culture that stole from the northern Africans and mid-easterners, I'd wonder how western it's ever been.

We are the Borg. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.

A decent point indeed. Also, depending on where you stand any country can be "West". It seems to be a catchphrase for the most powerful civilization at any time.

A decent point indeed. Also, depending on where you stand any country can be "West". It seems to be a catchphrase for the most powerful civilization at any time.

I find it particularly funny when countries in east Asia are called "the West" in relation to the Middle East.

Besides, it's not like "the West" is a united force. France, Germany, Britain, the US, and Cuba are all parts of "the West" and you can't tell me those are all the same...or that they all agree...on anything...ever...

I find it particularly funny when countries in east Asia are called "the West" in relation to the Middle East.

Besides, it's not like "the West" is a united force. France, Germany, Britain, the US, and Cuba are all parts of "the West" and you can't tell me those are all the same...or that they all agree...on anything...ever...


Poor japan. Since hawaii went US, everything is the west.

...Is australia considered western? I think it is. Which is odd, its eastern of even the east.

Poor japan. Since hawaii went US, everything is the west.

...Is australia considered western? I think it is. Which is odd, its eastern of even the east.

True, true, yes, and ironic. In that order. ;)