NationStates Jolt Archive

Most people on this forum know what the Age of Imperialism was, started some time in the 1500's, ended around the time of World War Two when the European powers started losing colonies, while imperialism limped on until about the 1970's or so, and now France is the only European nation with a 'colony' you can see on the map without eye strain.
However, cultural imperialism seems to be going strong, even now. Of course its much more subtle than the Spanish method of "Sorry, your Christian now, didnt you get the memo? Oops, is this YOUR temple I accidentally set on fire?", but it IS going on.
Of course, nobody CALLS it cultural imperialism, mostly because it is carried on through organizations such as the UN, which are 'good'. And, of course, any culture that dictates that, say, honour duels are a good way to solve disputes, is 'bad', and thus must be stopped.
Of course, the US does it to, but the US seems more keyed to making money than imposing its moral authori-tah on people, the recent Bush reign being an exception perhaps. If anything, McDonlads encourages people to develope their OWN resturaunt industry.
Basically, it seems that certain people are keyed in on making the entire planet a Politically Correct, homogenized, one-world-culture, that culture being the standard North American/European Standard.
Not that anybody bothered to ASK the people they were busy 'saving' if they happened to not mind wearing a thighbone in one ear, or perhaps even thought the idea of sticking bits of metal into ones ear was rather a waste.

I think you are confusing a certain political standard with a culture or a set of morals.

They're certainly connected in a way, but not the same. And wanting to have every nation on earth run by a properly representative government that respects some basic rights of its citizens, and who adhere to a certain set of rules for interacting with other nations...I don't think that's cultural imperialism so much as a basic framework for humanity to function properly.

Most Western nations have a GDP higher than most turd world (Err, THIRD WORLD) groups of nations put together.

Most of Britian's colonies are doing pretty well. America is one example. One benefit of Colonialism.

Western culture is superior in nearly every way to other cultures. Deal with it.

Western culture is superior in nearly every way to other cultures. Deal with it.

Dood y3r such a blatant big0t and racist!!1111!!!!!

Happily, you are right.

Of course its much more subtle than the Spanish method of "Sorry, your Christian now, didnt you get the memo? Oops, is this YOUR temple I accidentally set on fire?"
And it's more subtle than the Muslim invasion of Europe that happened before the Crusades.

You bring up a few points that I was ranting to myself about just a few minutes ago ironicly. While individuals may be in cultural imperialism for money such has a certain vice president may or may not be, the average person has always believed that they were doing the right thing and helping the people out. And I think it's imorral not to want to spread your culture because if you think your culture will help the other group of people out in the long run, not doing anything would be lazy and greedy of you wouldn't it? Like not putting your time into charity.
But then again I am a crazy fanatic, who rants to himself. But chances are you're equally insane.

Happily, you are right.
Agreeing with you almost makes me want to rethink my position. Then I look at any even remotely non-Westernized nation and realize that you may not be a complete idiot.

Imperialism is much older than 1500 its as old as human from ancient times. Examples the romans. It has been used by all cultures aztecs to the ottman empirer muslums had their age of imperialism during the 1000 to 1200.

Now heres my opinion. I am not a nazi but I think some cultures are better than others. {However the people arnt exactly better Im not saying people are inferior or anything just to be clear}

Examples English vs native americans. British had devoloped domistic farming and the Native americans used hunter gatherer to surivive. Land can produce more farming than it can hunting. English had a better system of food clothing firer arms ships better stuff to surivive. The native americans were un able to adapt and thus went practicaly extint. Im not saying the people were better but the society was.

All threw out time empirers come and go its a ballance of power and the strong surivive just like animals in the wild the best breeds of creatures surivive. If you fish lake erie you know what I mean in this next analigy. Blue pike vs walleye Walleye surivived in lake erie and Blue pike died out beacuse they couldnt surivive beacuse of a change in their enviroment. Thus the walleye prospered beacuse their were no more blue pike to compete with the walleye thrive.

Over all heres what im saying the best culture surivives and those who have a diffrent culture must do 1 of 3 thing 1 adapt like the japonese or chinese. Move like the native americans.not the best option beacuse you will eventualy run out of room. 3 Get a better culture. muslums were huge during the 12 and 13 hundreds europeans needed to get stronger in order to keep their culture.

Western culture is superior in nearly every way to other cultures. Deal with it.

I Hope you realize that Islamic culture is a subfacet of the so-called "Western" culture. There is no difference between the average Islamic fanatic who blows up transit buses and the average Christian fanatic who guns down doctors at Abortion clinics. Two sides of the same coin.

I Hope you realize that Islamic culture is a subfacet of the so-called "Western" culture. There is no difference between the average Islamic fanatic who blows up transit buses and the average Christian fanatic who guns down doctors at Abortion clinics. Two sides of the same coin.
So both Arab-Islamic and Western culture both just boil down to religious extremists blowing shit up?

I Hope you realize that Islamic culture is a subfacet of the so-called "Western" culture. There is no difference between the average Islamic fanatic who blows up transit buses and the average Christian fanatic who guns down doctors at Abortion clinics. Two sides of the same coin.
Oh please, this that is sOoOoOo over-used. Christians attacks on abortions dont happen any where near as much as Muslim Terrorism. Nor are they sanctioned by nations and and/or political parties that call for Muslim violence.

Dont be blind.

I Hope you realize that Islamic culture is a subfacet of the so-called "Western" culture. There is no difference between the average Islamic fanatic who blows up transit buses and the average Christian fanatic who guns down doctors at Abortion clinics. Two sides of the same coin.

HAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHA!!!!!! Way to fill out the stereotype of yourself.

I Hope you realize that Islamic culture is a subfacet of the so-called "Western" culture. There is no difference between the average Islamic fanatic who blows up transit buses and the average Christian fanatic who guns down doctors at Abortion clinics. Two sides of the same coin.

Actually, most of Islamic culture is in the "Middle Eastern" culture category (from N Africa to India area), NOT the West.

Here is a lesson.

Cultural areas:

West- Europe, Russia, and N America.
Middle East- above
Far East- the rest of Asia
Mesoamerican- Natives from C and S America
Latin- modern C and S America
Africa- sub-Sahara Africa
Native American- those "Indians" from the East Indies. They are really Native Americans, but the first part is to make it clear...
Aboriginal- the Aboriginee society
Polynesian- a subcategory of Far East. Polynesia.

Those are the culture zones.

Is Far Eastern culture (at the current moment in time) classified as 'Western'? Because, fankly, if it is, then Western culture is, indeed, superior to every other on Earth.

I like that we call Central America "Latin" America, since nobody there speaks Latin, there are no great Latin monuments, no Latin nations, no Latin culture, and there are no Latin people there.

Oh, and everybody counts modern Japan as Western, even though it's obviously not, geographically.

Is Far Eastern culture (at the current moment in time) classified as 'Western'? Because, fankly, if it is, then Western culture is, indeed, superior to every other on Earth.
Japan and South Korea have, to an extent, become westernized while keeping much of their respective culture intact. That's helped them progress toward democracy and economic prosperity.

Islam is an Abrahamic religion, just like Christianity. It's moral codes and philosphies are nearly identical to those of christianity. Though most muslims live in a different cultural area than europe, the extensive contact between Europe and the middle East during the Middle Ages and Renaissance has made both cultures quite similar. I admit there are differences, but the point I was trying to make was that killing peole for no reason, no matter who pulls the trigger, is wrong.

When people talk about cultural "superiority," it's usually a smoke and mirrors campaign that both ignores past atrocities and attempts to blind people from current hypocrisy.

Look at the Nazi holocaust. We don't point to that as an example that all of western civilization and culture is bad. Yet, many people point to the atrocities of a small number of self serving terrorists who use Islam as a weapon to silence dissent and build their own cult of personality, and they make the conclusion that "Western" culture must be superior to Islamic culture, that wouldn't happen here.

Well if the table were turned, and christianity was a third world religion, very similar abuse would be happening.

Japan and South Korea have, to an extent, become westernized while keeping much of their respective culture intact. That's helped them progress toward democracy and economic prosperity.

Technically, the are still Far Eastern, along with China.

Oh, and everybody counts modern Japan as Western, even though it's obviously not, geographically.
Japan sought out Western ways of modernizing it's industrial and military capacity before WWII and was greatly influenced by American occupation post WWII. It's absorbed some western culture and fused it with it's own Japanese culture.

Islam is an Abrahamic religion, just like Christianity. It's moral codes and philosphies are nearly identical to those of christianity. Though most muslims live in a different cultural area than europe, the extensive contact between Europe and the middle East during the Middle Ages and Renaissance has made both cultures quite similar. I admit there are differences, but the point I was trying to make was that killing peole for no reason, no matter who pulls the trigger, is wrong.

When people talk about cultural "superiority," it's usually a smoke and mirrors campaign that both ignores past atrocities and attempts to blind people from current hypocrisy.

Look at the Nazi holocaust. We don't point to that as an example that all of western civilization and culture is bad. Yet, many people point to the atrocities of a small number of self serving terrorists who use Islam as a weapon to silence dissent and build their own cult of personality, and they make the conclusion that "Western" culture must be superior to Islamic culture, that wouldn't happen here.

Well if the table were turned, and christianity was a third world religion, very similar abuse would be happening.
When I talk about cultural superiority I'm talking about which cultures serve the needs and desires of their people best. Western and western-influenced cultures provide more freedom to live the lifestyle you want, better standards of living, and greater equality under the law than Arab-Islamic culture. More people flock to western-style nations than to Arab nations. It's pretty clear to me that Western culture and the cultures influenced by the West outperform Arab culture in terms of giving people freedom, justice, and prosperity.

Islam is an Abrahamic religion, just like Christianity. It's moral codes and philosphies are nearly identical to those of christianity. Though most muslims live in a different cultural area than europe, the extensive contact between Europe and the middle East during the Middle Ages and Renaissance has made both cultures quite similar. I admit there are differences, but the point I was trying to make was that killing peole for no reason, no matter who pulls the trigger, is wrong.

When people talk about cultural "superiority," it's usually a smoke and mirrors campaign that both ignores past atrocities and attempts to blind people from current hypocrisy.

Look at the Nazi holocaust. We don't point to that as an example that all of western civilization and culture is bad. Yet, many people point to the atrocities of a small number of self serving terrorists who use Islam as a weapon to silence dissent and build their own cult of personality, and they make the conclusion that "Western" culture must be superior to Islamic culture, that wouldn't happen here.

Well if the table were turned, and christianity was a third world religion, very similar abuse would be happening.

Not to be a prick about this, but can we stop using Middle Eastern culture and Islamic culture interchangeably? Technically, Christianity and Judaism are an integral part of Middle Eastern culture (not only because they were both formed there, but because their holy cities are there, and they have a presence, albeit a smaller one), and Islam exists in Western culture (again, though it's a small influence, it's there).

Besides, if all the world were Buddhists, we'd have world peace. :D

Japan sought out Western ways of modernizing it's industrial and military capacity before WWII and was greatly influenced by American occupation post WWII. It's absorbed some western culture and fused it with it's own Japanese culture.

But do political and civil freedoms, along with economic prosperity really count as a culture. If not, then the whole idea of a Western culture is null and void because of the social differences between East and West.

Not to be a prick about this, but can we stop using Middle Eastern culture and Islamic culture interchangeably? Technically, Christianity and Judaism are an integral part of Middle Eastern culture (not only because they were both formed there, but because their holy cities are there, and they have a presence, albeit a smaller one), and Islam exists in Western culture (again, though it's a small influence, it's there).

Besides, if all the world were Buddhists, we'd have world peace. :D
No way. We'd have Shao Lin monks fighting Wudan monks in the streets day and night. I know it's true because I've watched plenty of Kung Fu movies.

But do political and civil freedoms, along with economic prosperity really count as a culture. If not, then the whole idea of a Western culture is null and void because of the social differences between East and West.

Kinda sorta.

It's moral codes and philosphies are nearly identical to those of christianity.

That is completely wrong.


Though most muslims live in a different cultural area than europe, the extensive contact between Europe and the middle East during the Middle Ages and Renaissance has made both cultures quite similar.


No they havn't.


I admit there are differences, but the point I was trying to make was that killing peole for no reason, no matter who pulls the trigger, is wrong.


What does that have to do with anything?


When people talk about cultural "superiority," it's usually a smoke and mirrors campaign that both ignores past atrocities and attempts to blind people from current hypocrisy.


Cultural superiority does not have anything to do with past actions


Look at the Nazi holocaust.

Godwin.


We don't point to that as an example that all of western civilization and culture is bad.


Thats because it doesn't represent western culture.


Yet, many people point to the atrocities of a small number of self serving terrorists who use Islam as a weapon to silence dissent and build their own cult of personality, and they make the conclusion that "Western" culture must be superior to Islamic culture, that wouldn't happen here.


You completely forgot about how those countries endorse and fund terrorism as well as being oppressive dictatorships. You also forgot our technological/creative/philosophical etc superiority.


Well if the table were turned, and christianity was a third world religion, very similar abuse would be happening.

Possibly, but not as bad as there are no instructions in the bible that demand you to hate or kill infidels.

But do political and civil freedoms, along with economic prosperity really count as a culture. If not, then the whole idea of a Western culture is null and void because of the social differences between East and West.
I believe that they do. Culture tells us what is taboo and what is virtuous. Western culture holds freedom of speech and equal protection under the law as virtuous traits. It finds religious discrimination and punishment for speaking one's mind to be taboo. Arab-Islamic cultures treat non-muslims as second class citizens because their laws are based on Sharia. Also they place strict limits on speech.

Refer to my earlier post about the culture areas. Islam is not Middle Eastern and west is not Middle East.

(Now is the time for someone to mention Turkey)

Examples English vs native americans. British had devoloped domistic farming and the Native americans used hunter gatherer to surivive. Land can produce more farming than it can hunting. English had a better system of food clothing firer arms ships better stuff to surivive. The native americans were un able to adapt and thus went practicaly extint. Im not saying the people were better but the society was.

Ah, but what you are missing here is that fact that a small population of hunter-gatherers can survive for long periods of time on a given piece of land, without bringing about serious ecological change, but the same is not true for agrarian cultures. By their very definition an agrarian cultural dramatically alters the ecosystem of the territory on which they live, and this can have unforeseen effects - for example the dustbowl and the misery it caused was a direct result of the switch from hunter-gatherer to farmer.

Ah, but what you are missing here is that fact that a small population of hunter-gatherers can survive for long periods of time on a given piece of land, without bringing about serious ecological change, but the same is not true for agrarian cultures. By their very definition an agrarian cultural dramatically alters the ecosystem of the territory on which they live, and this can have unforeseen effects - for example the dustbowl and the misery it caused was a direct result of the switch from hunter-gatherer to farmer.

Altering the environment is a step in Transcendence :D .

You completely forgot about how those countries endorse and fund terrorism as well as being oppressive dictatorships. You also forgot our technolical/creative/philosaphical etc superiority.


I oppose this statement on the grounds that while spelling "technological" in that manner is forgivable, spelling "philosophical" in that manner is an offense under God, and I desire that you now justify the West's philosophical superiority, or I will be forced to draw and quarter you (in the traditional European way).

I oppose this statement on the grounds that while spelling "technological" in that manner is forgivable, spelling "philosophical" in that manner is an offense under God, and I desire that you now justify the West's philosophical superiority, or I will be forced to draw and quarter you (in the traditional European way).

Yep, always have been the worlds worst speller. We are philosophically superior because we let people think and study what they like. (well almost).

I oppose this statement on the grounds that while spelling "technological" in that manner is forgivable, spelling "philosophical" in that manner is an offense under God, and I desire that you now justify the West's philosophical superiority, or I will be forced to draw and quarter you (in the traditional European way).

People will draw on Ancient Greece and Atlantis for this one. (Atlantis=Minoan-land place)

Altering the environment is a step in Transcendence :D .

Quite possibly, but it's generally a good idea to check first if your mind has somewhere to actually go before you let your body fall by the wayside.

Yep, always have been the worlds worst speller. We are philosophically superior because we let people think and study what they like. (well almost).

And that's why the Patriot Act lets the government see your library records for the purposes of deciding whether or not you're dangerous?

Yep, always have been the worlds worst speller. We are philosophically superior because we let people think and study what they like. (well almost).

Except polygamy, adultery, and, until recently, homosexuality, bisexuality, transsexuality, and euthanasia.

And that's why the Patriot Act lets the government see your library records for the purposes of deciding whether or not you're dangerous?

As i said, "well almost".

I oppose this statement on the grounds that while spelling "technological" in that manner is forgivable, spelling "philosophical" in that manner is an offense under God, and I desire that you now justify the West's philosophical superiority, or I will be forced to draw and quarter you (in the traditional European way).

'philosaphical'

philo-Sapphical?

Maybe it means love of lesbian poetry?

Isn't "Western Culture" one of those oxymorons?

Except polygamy, adultery, and, until recently, homosexuality, bisexuality, transsexuality, and euthanasia.

That isn't thinking or studying. You are alowed to do most of those things, but thats why i said "almost".

Quite possibly, but it's generally a good idea to check first if your mind has somewhere to actually go before you let your body fall by the wayside.

Transcending means you win, though. Without a body, you can't truly die (unless that is false).

The other way of victory: Omnikinesis.:D

That isn't thinking or studying. You are alowed to do most of those things, but thats why i said "almost".

Well, technically, those ARE involved in thoughts. :p

Isn't "Western Culture" one of those oxymorons?

Let's not get all Gandhi here.

Isn't "Western Culture" one of those oxymorons?

like "Civil War" or "intelligent Bush"?:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p


jk... or am I?

like "Civil War" or "intelligent Bush"?:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p


jk... or am I?

I think 'military intelligence' is the classic example.

Transcending means you win, though. Without a body, you can't truly die (unless that is false).

The other way of victory: Omnikinesis.:D

Omnikinesis = Omnipotence?

Let's not get all Gandhi here.

How about Dalai Llama?:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

Omnikinesis = Omnipotence?

"Omnikinseis" means you can move everything with your mind, from bodies to molecules to healing power (Vitakinesis).

How about Dalai Llama?

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/pubs/llama.jpg
A Llama, yesterday.

http://www.president.rutgers.edu/dalailama/images/dalai_lama.jpg
A Lama, yesterday.

The question of superior culture should probably be put into a large time frame: there was a period in which europe languished in illiteracy while the Ottomans built and ran an empire rivaled only by the Roman Empire in size, duration, and advancement. Even into World War I, fairly recent in historical terms, the Ottoman Empire was described as "The sick man of europe" - indicating that while it was in decline, it did in fact have a lofty height to fall FROM. Internal division, schisms and stagnation killed that empire, but hey, SOMETHING gets every empire. When "western" nations moved in and carved states in nearly arbitrary blocks, setting up oppressive puppet governments, they pretty much guaranteed a culture of violence would develop. Maybe this is Islam's "dark age" - pockmarked by ignorance, extremism and violence, just like the West's.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/pubs/llama.jpg
A Llama, yesterday.

http://www.president.rutgers.edu/dalailama/images/dalai_lama.jpg
A Lama, yesterday.

OK, fine. "How about Dalai Lama?":upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :mad:

U know what I meant.

OK, fine. "How about Dalai Lama?":upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :mad:

U know what I meant.

Yes, my earlier remark about Gandhi was triggered because when asked what he thought of Western civilization he replied 'I think it would be a good idea'.

Yes, my earlier remark about Gandhi was triggered because when asked what he thought of Western civilization he replied 'I think it would be a good idea'.

Take a joke as it is.

Most people on this forum know what the Age of Imperialism was, started some time in the 1500's, ended around the time of World War Two when the European powers started losing colonies, while imperialism limped on until about the 1970's or so, and now France is the only European nation with a 'colony' you can see on the map without eye strain.Incorrect. The end of Imperialism was pretty much heralded by World War One, which changed the status quo of empires forever.
Great Britain still has territories that can be considered colonies.
However, cultural imperialism seems to be going strong, even now. Of course its much more subtle than the Spanish method of "Sorry, your Christian now, didnt you get the memo? Oops, is this YOUR temple I accidentally set on fire?", but it IS going on.
Of course, nobody CALLS it cultural imperialism, mostly because it is carried on through organizations such as the UN, which are 'good'. And, of course, any culture that dictates that, say, honour duels are a good way to solve disputes, is 'bad', and thus must be stopped.So what programs is the UN implementing that are causing this? Do you have any idea what UNICEF really does besides bring books to children?
Of course, the US does it to, but the US seems more keyed to making money than imposing its moral authori-tah on people, the recent Bush reign being an exception perhaps. If anything, McDonlads encourages people to develope their OWN resturaunt industry.Morals aren't the only export of culture.
Basically, it seems that certain people are keyed in on making the entire planet a Politically Correct, homogenized, one-world-culture, that culture being the standard North American/European Standard.
Not that anybody bothered to ASK the people they were busy 'saving' if they happened to not mind wearing a thighbone in one ear, or perhaps even thought the idea of sticking bits of metal into ones ear was rather a waste.That's a damn good point.

Uhh... not much to say about a rebuttal.

Presumably, within that poorly phrased drivel there was a point?

Cultural Imperialism is a different entity to what you allude to entirely. Consider it akin to an evangelical Christian as opposed to a passive yet nonetheless ardent Christian.

Japan and South Korea have, to an extent, become westernized while keeping much of their respective culture intact. That's helped them progress toward democracy and economic prosperity.
By “keeping their culture intact” do you mean the preservation of misogyny and racist xenophobia?

Presumably, within that poorly phrased drivel there was a point?

Cultural Imperialism is a different entity to what you allude to entirely. Consider it akin to an evangelical Christian as opposed to a passive yet nonetheless ardent Christian.

Or McDonald's salads vs their cheeseburger. Both are unhealthy, but people think the former is less so.

By “keeping their culture intact” do you mean the preservation of misogyny and racist xenophobia?

Maybe...

Isn't "Western Culture" one of those oxymorons?
Only if you're a tool.

Only if you're a tool.

Or an Irken :p