NationStates Jolt Archive

In the United States, the military academies (USAFA, USNA, USMA, USCGA, USMMA) are called service academies. Essentially, you would get a free education (of very good quality) in exchange for at least 5 years of active duty and 3 years in the reserves.

My question, to NSG, if you had the opportunity (it comes down to a yes or no from you), would you choose to attend a Service Academy?

Absolutely. Most of the Colleges I'm applying to are Service Academys.


West Point, Annapolis, Virginia Military Institute, The Citadel. Those are the ones i'm applying for.

not unless it was my only option to get an education. it would be my absolute last choice. i would rather work in a shitty job and scrimp and save for years to pay for a college education.

Oh yes, and about the Reserves part, its actually much longer. Try 10 years in the inactive reserve after you leave the service. You can be called up at any time during those 10 years. But if you're looking to be a career soldier, it really wouldn't be a problem for you, as in my case.

I'm joining the United States Marine Corps straight out of high school, so no, I don't think I will attend a service academy.

Oh yes, and about the Reserves part, its actually much longer. Try 10 years in the inactive reserve after you leave the service. You can be called up at any time during those 10 years. But if you're looking to be a career soldier, it really wouldn't be a problem for you, as in my case.

Ah. Perhaps I was just looking at some other form of reserve. Is it the same for all the services and academies?

Ah. Perhaps I was just looking at some other form of reserve. Is it the same for all the services and academies?


I think so mate. Sorry if I sounded like an ass there, its harder than hell to show sarcasm through text ;)


I'm hoping to get into West Point or Annapolis mainly. If I get into The Point, I'm going Army Ranger. If I get into Annapolis, i'm thinking either Marine Infantry Officer, or Marine Corps. Aviator (Flyin' F/A-18s!)

Seriously, Hudson High School?

I expected better...

Seriously, Hudson High School?

I expected better...


huh?

huh?
Westpoint

huh?
People that are not exactly fans of West Point (mainly Navy and Air Force) refer to the USMA as Hudson High School.

People that are not exactly fans of West Point (mainly Navy and Air Force) refer to the USMA as Hudson High School.

Ah, gotcha. Most of my family was in the Army. One of my Cousins was General Patton. I had a relative in the Revolutionary War, who fought again at the Battle of Baltimore in the War of 1812. Many in the Civil War, and many in World War One (As Marines, Army, and Navy personnel).


In Vietnam, my Grandpa was in the Army as a Doctor, and another Cousin was in the Airforce. He eventually became a General too.


I'm thinking about West Point, but I'm also really considering the Marines. Right now I'm leaning towards Marines, but that fluxated regularly lol

Ahh...jarheads. My friend is a Corpsman attached to the 1st Marines. He says that the marines in his unit are the dumbest people he has ever come across.

If I ever decide to go to a Service Academy, It'll be USAFA. They have the most beautiful campus ever.

No. I am a walking demerit.

No. I am a walking demerit.

It could be worse. You could be a walking autofail.

Ahh...jarheads. My friend is a Corpsman attached to the 1st Marines. He says that the marines in his unit are the dumbest people he has ever come across.

If I ever decide to go to a Service Academy, It'll be USAFA. They have the most beautiful campus ever.


Thanks....You just insulted about half my family.

Definitely. Free university education followed by 5 years employment, it seems like a great deal to me. Also, being Canadian, I'm less likely to be put in a situation where I could be killed. On the other hand, my parents are paying for my education, so I have never had to make such a decision.

No.

No.

I don't think I'm a military man in the first place (although I would've chosen military service over civil service if I had still been in Germany). The idea of going to war isn't all that appealing to me - and if you're not going to war, after a while military life will surely become rather boring.

Secondly, in an education you are looking for quality and prestige. That's the stuff that'll pay out in cold, hard cash later on. Now, I don't doubt that military academies or -universities are quite good in military-related disciplines, perhaps even in the political sciences...but other than that?

I mean, I wouldn't study economics at a military college (do they even offer it?). Not only would I have my doubts about the quality of the education, but you're not going to impress fellow economists or even anyone but the most patriotic of employers.

Yes, and I too actually want to either go to USMA or USNA.

I intend to. It is my plan to make it into West Point, continue there, enter the Army with head start, work my twenty years, and leave the Army as an officer of some sort, get the penchant, and get a nice job with my qualifications from the Army and buy a nice house.

It worked for my uncle, he left the army as a full Colonel, and now has a nice big house in Arizona... why Arizona... too hot.

I'm going to Scotland, more sheep, less hot.

Considering I'm enlisting in Army Infantry right out of high school... no.

I really want to go to Annapolis, but I won't be able to get in, the senators and Representitives had chosen their picks already, so I am going to be attending a school with a NAvy ROTC program. That way I can still go into Naval Intel, and also learn Japanese, Chinese, and Chinese Cultural Studies, so that I can be sure of assignment into the 7th Fleet out of SAESBO Japan.

If given the chance I would definitely attend a service academy. Recieve a free university level education and a guaranteed career afterwards, but since I didn't make the cut, I'll just work my way through AFROTC instead.

Wanted to go to the Navy Academy, but... well... there's not a force that would take me unless we're REALLY desperate.

Though it took me a long time to convince the military recruiters of this fact. ;)

Ah. Perhaps I was just looking at some other form of reserve. Is it the same for all the services and academies?
No.

I only know about the Navy, but here's what I know. Mids who graduate and go on to work on ships serve what was outline in the OP, i think its 5 years active duty, 4 years reserves, or something like that.

Pilots serve for closer to 7 years, because for about 2 years after commencement, they have to go learn how to fly their planes, and those years don't count. So the 5 years dont start counting until after they get their wings, I believe.

Submarines get significantly less time, but I dunno what it is, exactly.

Hope that helped.

If I had limited options, they would have been a strong contender...they offer great education for less monetary cost.

However, with the resources I have, they wern't something I looked into

No. Sorry, but serving the military-industrial complex isn’t really my thing.

No.

~snip~
Secondly, in an education you are looking for quality and prestige. That's the stuff that'll pay out in cold, hard cash later on. Now, I don't doubt that military academies or -universities are quite good in military-related disciplines, perhaps even in the political sciences...but other than that?

I mean, I wouldn't study economics at a military college (do they even offer it?). Not only would I have my doubts about the quality of the education, but you're not going to impress fellow economists or even anyone but the most patriotic of employers.
Actually, in the US, at least, this is not true. Academics are very rigorous at the USNA and othe service schools. The USNA is an incredible engineering school. I do not know about economics, though.

Employers would be impressed by the potential employee because they know that in order to graduate from a military academy, the person must be determined, smart, disciplined, and hard working, to name a few positive qualities one would expect from an officer.

only if it were a Jedi acedemy.
Or definately a DARK Jedi academy.

No, but both my brothers went to the USNA.

I havent the discipline, or the patience for being yelled at, or the phsyical fitness.

Actually, in the US, at least, this is not true. Academics are very rigorous at the USNA and othe service schools. The USNA is an incredible engineering school. I do not know about economics, though.

Employers would be impressed by the potential employee because they know that in order to graduate from a military academy, the person must be determined, smart, disciplined, and hard working, to name a few positive qualities one would expect from an officer.

The USNA is considered one of the best schools in the country. You learn Discipline, Leadership, a Work Ethic (for those non-midwesterners out there who need to get one :p ), and whatever other skill you want to be schooled in. As long as it serves the Navy, they'll teach it to you. Plus their school of Computer Engineering aint shabby as pretty much everyone needs to know at least something about computers these days.

The USNA is considered one of the best schools in the country. You learn Discipline, Leadership, a Work Ethic (for those non-midwesterners out there who need to get one :p ), and whatever other skill you want to be schooled in. As long as it serves the Navy, they'll teach it to you. Plus their school of Computer Engineering aint shabby as pretty much everyone needs to know at least something about computers these days.

That's very true. The US military academies have a huge backround in hard science. I would say a pleurality of people that graduate from Navy or Air Force get degrees in a scientific field. Air Force and Navy have consistently ranked as some of the best schools in the nation.

Air Force and Navy have consistently ranked as some of the best schools in the nation.
You know, that's where you should probably come up with evidence of some sort.

I mean, there's plenty of rankings out there, if you could find one that'd be great.

In the United States, the military academies (USAFA, USNA, USMA, USCGA, USMMA) are called service academies. Essentially, you would get a free education (of very good quality) in exchange for at least 5 years of active duty and 3 years in the reserves.

My question, to NSG, if you had the opportunity (it comes down to a yes or no from you), would you choose to attend a Service Academy?
If I had been able to get into West Point, I would have, but my grades in high school sucked. So I went to Officer Candidate School after college instead. :)

You know, that's where you should probably come up with evidence of some sort.

I mean, there's plenty of rankings out there, if you could find one that'd be great.

So far, I've dug up that, according to the Princeton Review, it ranks very highly in selectivity. Unfortunately, US news, the most common reviewing service, does not rank the Service Academies against other schools. But, it does say that the acceptance rate is 13% (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/unranked/srv/srv_brief.php). This is after the Congressional Appointment process screens out many applicants. In the same page, it states that the USAFA's freshman class is mostly composed of the top 25% of high schoolers in terms of grades, and more than half (57%) was in the top 10%(finding another link...) of their graduating class.

Unfortunately, I have not been able to find sources that compare any of the service academies to other public and private schools. I shall keep looking.

So far, I've dug up that, according to the Princeton Review, it ranks very highly in selectivity...
Hmm, I suppose that makes sense, given the nature of the beast.

So, since probably quite a lot of people want to get in (although that may be for different reasons than sheer academic attraction ;) ), they can choose the best. So it's exclusive.

Whether or not that also means that it is a very good education we can't necessarily tell (precisely because the reasons people go to service academies aren't the same as they are for other institutions), but I take your point. It probably depends on the discipline, much like it does in Germany (the Bundeswehr has two universities (http://www.hsu-hh.de/hsu/index_qVQUtHFyFE9G994I.html) it runs for officers as well, which are obviously pretty decent in engineering and stuff, probably less so in some other areas...).

Hmm, I suppose that makes sense, given the nature of the beast.

So, since probably quite a lot of people want to get in (although that may be for different reasons than sheer academic attraction ;) ), they can choose the best. So it's exclusive.

Whether or not that also means that it is a very good education we can't necessarily tell (precisely because the reasons people go to service academies aren't the same as they are for other institutions), but I take your point. It probably depends on the discipline, much like it does in Germany (the Bundeswehr has two universities (http://www.hsu-hh.de/hsu/index_qVQUtHFyFE9G994I.html) it runs for officers as well, which are obviously pretty decent in engineering and stuff, probably less so in some other areas...).

Why does that university have a civilian chancellor?

BTW, the reason I'm asking this is because I am thinking about applying to the Air Force Academy. I do already go to college, but for a long time I have wanted to go to a service academy. I never got around to applying last year. I already completed the Precandidate Questionnaire, and hopefully I'll get my candidate packet when (if?) my questionnaire is approved.

Hmm, I suppose that makes sense, given the nature of the beast.

So, since probably quite a lot of people want to get in (although that may be for different reasons than sheer academic attraction ;) ), they can choose the best. So it's exclusive.

Whether or not that also means that it is a very good education we can't necessarily tell (precisely because the reasons people go to service academies aren't the same as they are for other institutions), but I take your point. It probably depends on the discipline, much like it does in Germany (the Bundeswehr has two universities (http://www.hsu-hh.de/hsu/index_qVQUtHFyFE9G994I.html) it runs for officers as well, which are obviously pretty decent in engineering and stuff, probably less so in some other areas...).


Most all military academies are Engineering schools. Precisely why I'm having trouble getting in. I'm terrible at mathematics. However, I'm a fantastic at History...

Why does that university have a civilian chancellor?
http://www.hsu-hh.de/hsu/index.php?brick_id=N2w0bYYa7sZ2AysN&action=setlanguage&language=en

Well, it doesn't have a Chancellor. :p

It's got a Senoir Commanding Officer, and it's got a President, who's elected by the heads of the uni, and appointed by the Minister for Defence. Apparently the current one studied Information Techologies and stuff.

To be honest, I don't know how exactly everything works there, I never considered going there...not least because I left Germany two years before I started uni.

BTW, the reason I'm asking this is because I am thinking about applying to the Air Force Academy. I do already go to college, but for a long time I have wanted to go to a service academy. I never got around to applying last year. I already completed the Precandidate Questionnaire, and hopefully I'll get my candidate packet when (if?) my questionnaire is approved.



Go for it dude! The Airforce isn't my thing, except for maybe the CSAR, but thats just me. Do what will make ya happy bro!

http://www.hsu-hh.de/hsu/index.php?brick_id=N2w0bYYa7sZ2AysN&action=setlanguage&language=en

Well, it doesn't have a Chancellor. :p

It's got a Senoir Commanding Officer, and it's got a President, who's elected by the heads of the uni, and appointed by the Minister for Defence. Apparently the current one studied Information Techologies and stuff.

To be honest, I don't know how exactly everything works there, I never considered going there...not least because I left Germany two years before I started uni.
Chancellor, president, nigh the same thing in a uni setting. So, the college has a commanding officer, but it seems like its run, from an administrative prospective, by civilians. Is this at least a little correct?

Chancellor, president, nigh the same thing in a uni setting. So, the college has a commanding officer, but it seems like its run, from an administrative prospective, by civilians. Is this at least a little correct?
Probably, yes. The Bundeswehr is very much a civilian army, as an organisation they like to have as close connections to civilian organisations as possible.
It's part of their greater philosophy to prevent the creation of another Reichswehr-type state within a state.

EDIT: See these links for more:
http://www.bmvg.de/portal/a/bmvg/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLt4w3MrUASUGY5vqRMLGg1Dx9b31fj_zcVP0A_YLciHJHR0VFAHgZFuw!/delta/base64xml/L2dJQSEvUUt3QS80SVVFLzZfOV8yQjQ!?yw_contentURL=%2FC1256F1200608B1B%2FW2686BW2672INFOEN%2Fcontent.jsp
http://www.bmvg.de/portal/a/bmvg/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLt4w3MrUASUGY5vqRMLGg1Dx9b31fj_zcVP0A_YLciHJHR0VFAHgZFuw!/delta/base64xml/L2dJQSEvUUt3QS80SVVFLzZfOV8zVU8!?yw_contentURL=%2FC1256F1200608B1B%2FW268SF2G013INFOEN%2Fcontent.jsp

Interesting...very different from many modern armies.

And what does this "Innere Führung" mean?

Interesting...very different from many modern armies.

And what does this "Innere Führung" mean?


In leadership

In the United States, the military academies (USAFA, USNA, USMA, USCGA, USMMA) are called service academies. Essentially, you would get a free education (of very good quality) in exchange for at least 5 years of active duty and 3 years in the reserves.

My question, to NSG, if you had the opportunity (it comes down to a yes or no from you), would you choose to attend a Service Academy?

No way. Ever.

I worked to pay for my education in honourable jobs, likes as cleaning woman in the local hospital. There's no way I'd ever consider selling myself to the military like this.

No, scholarships are more my thing... I couldn't stand the physical training either. :p

Here where I live, we all get near-free education in the form of a 100% scholarship to anyone wo gets a 3.5 GPA or higher...

So no for me.

Besides, the military would never accept me... too deformed.

Doesn't West Point send out information pamphlets to everyone? Because they've sent me one every year that I've been in high school so far.

I would never attend a service academy for many reasons. One, I know that I wouldn't be able to stand any sort of physical training- I had to take physical therapy for years. Plus, I don't know how it is now, are women allowed in combat? If I was, I've always had the feeling that I would probably die or get captured or something awful. In addition to that, I'm rather pacifistic and I couldn't stand being involved with the military, because I wouldn't want to be involved in anyone's death, even if it's sanctioned by the government.

Besides, I think I'd be a much better asset to my country as a scientist, and I'll probably be able to get a 100% scholarship anyway.

Not moi, you'd be on the first boat or plane to nearest warzone.

Not moi, you'd be on the first boat or plane to nearest warzone.

Assuming that you are in a combat position. Many graduates are assigned to administrative and laboratory positions. The military prefers to make the enlisted people fight and die as opposed to the people that they spent over a quarter of a million dollars training over 4 years.

It's not free. You come out of there with a debt, just like you do when you get a student loan. Except this kind of debt can actually get you killed.

though I'm joining the military as a career I wouldn't think about going to a service academy it just seems….wrong to me plus I’d rather spend my youthful years with my old friends having wild college parties than go to an uptight military school

Anyways no chance of that for me I would rather get right into my career (shooting myself in the foot maybe but I always said another year of school would kill me) hopefully being anti-tank infantry air assault with my backup being a medic (though I’m going to have to do some research on that)

*sigh* anti-tank infantry air assault I sound like such a dick :(

Nope, I wouldn't attend a service academy. I already did the military thing, and while I enjoyed being a soldier I'm done with the whole thing. I took ROTC last year, but that was just for fun. I'm not doing it again this year.

When I went into the military I wasn't ready to start college yet, so I wouldn't have done it back then either.

Interesting...very different from many modern armies.
Well, it's got a bit of a unique history, I suppose. But at least it seems to breed enthusiastic, disciplined and most importantly ethical people. Usually.

I remember there was a case a few years back of a bunch of Neonazis in the army making propaganda movies and stuff. Not sure whether they were just conscripts though. But the former leader of the KSK Special Forces was removed from his post for making inappropriate comments.

And what does this "Innere Führung" mean?
The literal translation would be "Internal Leadership" (close, Wanderjar :) ).

But yeah, it's an entire philosophy they developed over the years:
http://www.bmvg.de/portal/a/bmvg/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLt4w3cjIBSYGZpub6kTCxoNQ8fV-P_NxUfW_9AP2C3IhyR0dFRQB5k54R/delta/base64xml/L2dJQSEvUUt3QS80SVVFLzZfOV8yQjQ!?yw_contentURL=%2FC1256F1200608B1B%2FW2686BZR884INFOEN%2Fcontent.jsp
http://www.bmvg.de/portal/a/bmvg/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLt4w3cjIBSYGZpub6kTCxoNQ8fV-P_NxUfW_9AP2C3IhyR0dFRQB5k54R/delta/base64xml/L2dJQSEvUUt3QS80SVVFLzZfOV8yQjQ!?yw_contentURL=%2FC1256F1200608B1B%2FW2686C6E529INFOEN%2Fcontent.jsp
http://www.bmvg.de/portal/a/bmvg/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLt4w3cjIBSYGZpub6kTCxoNQ8fV-P_NxUfW_9AP2C3IhyR0dFRQB5k54R/delta/base64xml/L2dJQSEvUUt3QS80SVVFLzZfOV8yQjQ!?yw_contentURL=%2FC1256F1200608B1B%2FW2686CED240INFOEN%2Fcontent.jsp

And to be honest, I think in this modern era of asymmetric warfare and in which good relations with the locals are absolutely imperative, it can only be a good thing.