NationStates Jolt Archive


So WTF started this current Palestinian/Israeli clash?

Eutrusca
04-08-2006, 15:39
COMMENTARY: Although the MidEast is always a tinderbox waiting for a spark, the current conflict between Israel and Hizballah was begun over one man, a prisoner held by Israel. The Palestinians hoped to gain his release via an exchange for the young Israeli soldier they captured weeks ago. Would Israel have simply encouraged more kidnappings if they had agreed to an exchange?


Freeing Prisoners Key Goal in Fight Against Israel (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/04/world/middleeast/04prisoners.html?ref=world)


By CRAIG S. SMITH
Published: August 4, 2006
JERUSALEM, Aug. 2 — When Hezbollah guerrillas sneaked into Israel last month, killing and capturing Israeli soldiers and setting off the current crisis, their goal was to trade them for a Lebanese man held by Israel.

The prisoner, Samir Kuntar, was part of a cell that in 1979 raided an apartment building in the northern Israeli town of Nahariya, terrorizing the Haran family. Mr. Kuntar shot Danny Haran in the head, killing him, while his daughter, Einat, 4, watched, then smashed the girl’s head in with his rifle butt, killing her as well. Mr. Haran’s wife, Smadar, hid in the attic with their 2-year-old daughter, so afraid that the girl would cry out that she accidentally suffocated the girl to death.

After Hezbollah made off with two Israeli soldiers in the raid last month, Israel vowed that it would not negotiate for their release. But the question of prisoners held by Israel — nearly all of them Palestinians — is the subtext of this crisis and is likely to figure in its resolution. It is an issue that animates Hezbollah and the Palestinians as much as anything else in their fight with Israel.

Political discourse, billboards, street graffiti and militant songs and manifestos are all laced with references, sometimes nearly rote, to winning freedom for the prisoners.

The prisoners now number about 9,700, about 100 of them women, according to a spokeswoman for the Israeli Prison Authority. About 300 are younger than 18, including two girls and a boy of 14, being held in juvenile detention facilities for acts against Israel. The Israelis say many of them are terrorists — if not quite on the scale of Mr. Kuntar, not far from it — and some clearly are. But the Palestinians say that others are wrongfully accused and that many have never committed a violent act.

The Hamas movement’s military wing, the Qassam Brigades, say they captured the Israeli corporal Gilad Shalit as a bargaining chip to win the release of at least some of those prisoners, particularly the women and children. It is a move that many Palestinians support.

“We have 10,000 prisoners in jail, and the world cares only for this one Israeli prisoner,” said Mohsin Jirjawi, an uncle of a Palestinian wounded in the current fighting, referring to Corporal Shalit during an interview in Al Shifa hospital in Gaza City, where his wounded nephew is. He said all Palestinians supported Hamas’s proposal to trade prisoners with Israel. “And when Israel doesn’t respond, our steadfastness grows.” When it followed with its raid, Hezbollah said it was acting in solidarity with the Palestinians.

Since 1998, the Palestinian Authority has maintained a Ministry of Prisoners’ and Former Prisoners’ Affairs, with 300 bureaucrats to keep track of the rising number of prisoners in Israeli jails and to give allowances and legal aid to the prisoners and their families. Even its own minister, Wasfi Qabaha, is now in prison, arrested by Israel in the wake of the capture of Corporal Shalit.

For the Palestinians, the ripples of distress from every arrest have become an oppressive wave. One Gaza family has four sons in prison, and more than one family has both parents and children in jail, the Israeli Prison Authority said.

Fakhri al-Barghouti of Ramallah was sentenced to 28 years in jail and is sharing a cell with two of his sons, who are both serving life sentences, said Muhammad Tluli, the Palestinian prisoner’s ministry assistant deputy minister. Israeli officials could not immediately confirm those details, but said the Israeli Prison Authority did approve such living arrangements for prisoners with good records of behavior.

“We are willing to sacrifice ourselves for the freedom of the Palestinian prisoners,” said Abu Muhammad, a field commander for the Qassam Brigades, in a standard turn of phrase. He said he had spent four years in prison after the first intifada, or uprising, against Israel that began in 1987. “Even if Israel destroys all of Gaza, we will fight until they are released,” he said.

One of the factors that helped the militant movement Hamas beat the long-governing Fatah movement in elections in January was Fatah’s failure to win the release of Palestinian prisoners in large numbers. The Fatah leader and Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, secured the release of 900 prisoners in 2005, but Palestinians complained that the prisoners freed did not include long-term prisoners or fighters. Israel said it would not release any Palestinian guilty of killing Israelis.

[ This article is two pages long. Read the rest of the article (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/04/world/middleeast/04prisoners.html?ref=world). ]
Ultraextreme Sanity
04-08-2006, 15:41
The UN did .
Drunk commies deleted
04-08-2006, 15:46
I think Israel has encouraged them by conducting prisoner exchanges in the past. If Israel gives in and releases any Palestinian prisoners it only guarantees that more of it's people will be captured in the future.
Eutrusca
04-08-2006, 16:04
I think Israel has encouraged them by conducting prisoner exchanges in the past. If Israel gives in and releases any Palestinian prisoners it only guarantees that more of it's people will be captured in the future.
Exactly. Yet if they don't try to negotiate, there will be lots of dweebs ( like some on here! ) who will castigate them for not agreeing to a prisoner exchange; damned if they do, and damed if they don't. This is one reason I can so readily identify with Israel, America is often placed in the same sort of dilemna. :(
Sirrvs
04-08-2006, 16:22
What I would do if I ran a country faced with a hostage crisis:

1. Agree to pay the ransom or exchange prisoners.
2. Once my hostages are in a safe location, bomb the hell out of the kidnappers.
3. Issue a statement detailing how we will never negotiate with groups who use hostages or terrorism as leverage.

It's breaking a promise, yes. But that way, groups like Hezbollah will never trust in using kidnapping to achieve their political goals again.
Avika
04-08-2006, 16:23
Letting those muslims that went to Nazi Germany live long anough to spread their anti-semite and anti-Western hate to a muslim people who, unlike the Christians, haven't yet(at the time) experienced anything similar to the Church or the inquisition. If said Nazi muslims didn't spread the hate, it wouldn't exist as it does now.
Psychotic Mongooses
04-08-2006, 17:00
America is often placed in the same sort of dilemna. :(

When?!
Drunk commies deleted
04-08-2006, 17:15
What I would do if I ran a country faced with a hostage crisis:

1. Agree to pay the ransom or exchange prisoners.
2. Once my hostages are in a safe location, bomb the hell out of the kidnappers.
3. Issue a statement detailing how we will never negotiate with groups who use hostages or terrorism as leverage.

It's breaking a promise, yes. But that way, groups like Hezbollah will never trust in using kidnapping to achieve their political goals again.
How about just televising the execution of one of your prisoners per day until the soldier is released. Plus make sure the execution is fairly brutal, like feeding the prisoner feet-first through a wood chipper. Start with the female prisoners and those under 18 years old. That might get some results, or at least some ratings.
Eutrusca
04-08-2006, 17:16
What I would do if I ran a country faced with a hostage crisis:

1. Agree to pay the ransom or exchange prisoners.
2. Once my hostages are in a safe location, bomb the hell out of the kidnappers.
3. Issue a statement detailing how we will never negotiate with groups who use hostages or terrorism as leverage.

It's breaking a promise, yes. But that way, groups like Hezbollah will never trust in using kidnapping to achieve their political goals again.
That might work ... once.
Minaris
04-08-2006, 17:19
What I would do if I ran a country faced with a hostage crisis:

1. Agree to pay the ransom or exchange prisoners.
2. Once my hostages are in a safe location, bomb the hell out of the kidnappers.
3. Issue a statement detailing how we will never negotiate with groups who use hostages or terrorism as leverage.

It's breaking a promise, yes. But that way, groups like Hezbollah will never trust in using kidnapping to achieve their political goals again.

No... here is how you do it

1) Agree to meet with the leaders to hand them 2xs the ransom.
2) Send two elite rogue units to the site: one as diversion, one as freers.
3)Free the prisoners
4) Destroy the facilities using a third group/ the diversions.
5) Have a mercenary "fan" brage in and trip and "accidentaly" do something to them. Kill or capture. Your choice

Works better
BogMarsh
04-08-2006, 17:49
No... here is how you do it

1) Agree to meet with the leaders to hand them 2xs the ransom.
2) Send two elite rogue units to the site: one as diversion, one as freers.
3)Free the prisoners
4) Destroy the facilities using a third group/ the diversions.
5) Have a mercenary "fan" brage in and trip and "accidentaly" do something to them. Kill or capture. Your choice

Works better


Woossies!

Feed prisoners slow-working and highly undetectable posion.
Release.
Enjoy show.

PS: a lethal virus works even better.
Laerod
04-08-2006, 18:01
Lovely how this has turned into a thread on how best to murder people within a matter of a few posts...
Kibolonia
04-08-2006, 18:10
How about this, prosecute the situation until it ends up like this. Then conduct a surprising about face before the accomplishment of the strategic objectives, agreeing to an unconditional cease fire. Then when Hamas and Hezbollah hold parades in celebration retaliate with massive bombings of them.
Drunk commies deleted
04-08-2006, 18:18
How about this, prosecute the situation until it ends up like this. Then conduct a surprising about face before the accomplishment of the strategic objectives, agreeing to an unconditional cease fire. Then when Hamas and Hezbollah hold parades in celebration retaliate with massive bombings of them.
Bomb the parades? I like it!
BogMarsh
04-08-2006, 18:19
Lovely how this has turned into a thread on how best to murder people within a matter of a few posts...


See what happens when you try to work for ceasefires?


In 8 letters: Don't. Ever.
Nodinia
04-08-2006, 18:48
How about just televising the execution of one of your prisoners per day until the soldier is released. Plus make sure the execution is fairly brutal, like feeding the prisoner feet-first through a wood chipper. Start with the female prisoners and those under 18 years old. That might get some results, or at least some ratings.

Do you become "aroused" when typing that kind of juvenile nonsense? I suspect that you do. And whats worse, I seem to remember you are of voting age.
Drunk commies deleted
04-08-2006, 19:06
Do you become "aroused" when typing that kind of juvenile nonsense? I suspect that you do. And whats worse, I seem to remember you are of voting age.
No I do not become "aroused" when posting, nor do I seriously advocate feeding women and children through a wood chipper. I come to this forum mainly to fool around. I seldom get seriously involved in a debate.
The Lone Alliance
04-08-2006, 21:02
Bomb the parades? I like it!

That's what we should do in Bagdad then, since a ton of Shitte Militants are maraching in the center of the city protesting the Lebanon war.

Hundreds of Shitte Militants IN ONE PLACE. Can you say. "Putting all of one's eggs in one basket?"
Nodinia
04-08-2006, 22:54
No I do not become "aroused" when posting, nor do I seriously advocate feeding women and children through a wood chipper. I come to this forum mainly to fool around. I seldom get seriously involved in a debate.

Except when it comes to slagging of muslims. Or starting threads about muslims. And of course the odd "fool around".
Drunk commies deleted
04-08-2006, 22:57
Except when it comes to slagging of muslims. Or starting threads about muslims. And of course the odd "fool around".
Get me a source on that. I don't believe you.
Nodinia
04-08-2006, 23:08
Aha...
DesignatedMarksman
05-08-2006, 00:40
Since ISrael became a state the Muslims have longed for it's destruction, the Palistinians first and foremost of all, since they fought to uproot Israel in '48, lost, and got booted out.

Sucks to be on the wrong side, sucks to support terror, sucks to get savagely raped everytime you try to start a border conflict by the eye dee efff

:p
Nodinia
05-08-2006, 12:22
Since ISrael became a state the Muslims have longed for it's destruction, the Palistinians first and foremost of all, since they fought to uproot Israel in '48, lost, and got booted out.

Sucks to be on the wrong side, sucks to support terror, sucks to get savagely raped everytime you try to start a border conflict by the eye dee efff

:p

It wasn't the Palestinians who started that war, but the neigbouring states. Having been disarmed and had many leaders killed or exiled during the Arab revolt, local palestininian action was notable by its absence. And its "ethnically cleansed". "wrong side"....fighting for independence and against colonisation....really.....Not that you're given to muslim bashing, thankfully. All too much of that kind of thing going on these days.
Kibolonia
05-08-2006, 14:47
Get me a source on that. I don't believe you.
Wit that dry leaves me shaken not stired.