NationStates Jolt Archive

Let's discuss something truly boring. Instead of the demagoguery over the minimum wage and tax cuts, let's talk about how big the deficit really is, how the Congress lies to the public, and what we can do to put an end to this nonsense.

In the USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-08-02-deficit-usat_x.htm), a reporter finally figured out what some of us WSJ readers have known for ages. The Congress doesn't really report all of its expenditures in the budget, thus there are some programs, largely unfunded, that escape notice for being the money pits that they are. Here's a tease from the linked article,

The federal government keeps two sets of books.

The set the government promotes to the public has a healthier bottom line: a $318 billion deficit in 2005.

The set the government doesn't talk about is the audited financial statement produced by the government's accountants following standard accounting rules. It reports a more ominous financial picture: a $760 billion deficit for 2005. If Social Security and Medicare were included — as the board that sets accounting rules is considering — the federal deficit would have been $3.5 trillion.

What do we do about it? Raise taxes? Throw the bums out? Institute a better system of taxation?

Personally, I choose #3. #2 is tempting, but the bums will just be back. Or they will be different bums. The Fair Tax is the answer to yet another government abuse of our trust and money. The Fair Tax gives us control of the budget and returns the power of government to the governed.

...

Funny, I thought that they did admit we were several trillion in debt... We had a whole discussion about it in science class and everything...

Enron did the same thing. Only difference is: the federal government is immune from the rules created by those in the government.

It's blatantly a double-standard.

Let's discuss something truly boring. Instead of the demagoguery over the minimum wage and tax cuts, let's talk about how big the deficit really is, how the Congress lies to the public, and what we can do to put an end to this nonsense.

In the USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-08-02-deficit-usat_x.htm), a reporter finally figured out what some of us WSJ readers have known for ages. The Congress doesn't really report all of its expenditures in the budget, thus there are some programs, largely unfunded, that escape notice for being the money pits that they are. Here's a tease from the linked article,


What do we do about it? Raise taxes? Throw the bums out? Institute a better system of taxation?

Personally, I choose #3. #2 is tempting, but the bums will just be back. Or they will be different bums. The Fair Tax is the answer to yet another government abuse of our trust and money. The Fair Tax gives us control of the budget and returns the power of government to the governed.

It's called "discretionary spending" and "emergency" bills, and it's been going on for a loooong time. This Congress is no different than any other.

It's called "discretionary spending" and "emergency" bills, and it's been going on for a loooong time. This Congress is no different than any other.
Just so, and it's an election year. No one should be surprised at anything this Congress does. Or doesn't do. As Jay Leno remarked last night, this Congress is all for the minimum wage, they know exactly how to do the minimum for their wage.

Just so, and it's an election year. No one should be surprised at anything this Congress does. Or doesn't do. As Jay Leno remarked last night, this Congress is all for the minimum wage, they know exactly how to do the minimum for their wage.

Nice! :D

It's called "discretionary spending" and "emergency" bills, and it's been going on for a loooong time. This Congress is no different than any other.

That is because they are pretty much the same people. Incumbency is over 95%...

The government plays tricks all the time with its budgeting; that's why the "surpluses" of the 1990's are laughable, because they have no basis in reality and were little different than the paper profits of Enron or Worldcom. The only difference is that the government can't go bankrupt, and it can always finance its debt.

The only difference is that the government can't go bankrupt, and it can always finance its debt.
Exactly, but we the taxpayers can! We need to be a lot more anal about fiscal responsibility. It just boils my blood when I see people making the jump from saying "Oh we should help the poor. We should save the environment. We should provide healthcare. We should do this, we should do that," etc. to saying that the government should do those things. Why can't they just say those are all good things that we the taxpayers, morally, should be doing, but not necessarily through some bureaucratic, impersonal government.

Exactly, but we the taxpayers can! We need to be a lot more anal about fiscal responsibility. It just boils my blood when I see people making the jump from saying "Oh we should help the poor. We should save the environment. We should provide healthcare. We should do this, we should do that," etc. to saying that the government should do those things. Why can't they just say those are all good things that we the taxpayers, morally, should be doing, but not necessarily through some bureaucratic, impersonal government.

I agree, but I wouldn't have a problem with the goverment providing those services if the people were willing to pay for it! They say they want healthcare, environmental laws, a strong military, infrastructure...and then they bitch when they have to pay more to finance it! If you want the government to provide these things, you'd better be willing to pay for it.

It's ridiculous that the government can get away with running deficits of this scale during an economic expansion, especially since that totally destroys the purpose of deficit spending in the first place! Not to mention that the deficits cause inflation that eats away at the real tax income to begin with reducing real tax revenues even further...

...

Funny, I thought that they did admit we were several trillion in debt... We had a whole discussion about it in science class and everything...
Yeah there is a ticker somewhere...
But hey, who are we to rain on the defamation parade with things like facts and logic.

The Fair Tax gives us control of the budget and returns the power of government to the governed.
Mmm, delusion. Sweet, sweet delusion.

I agree, but I wouldn't have a problem with the goverment providing those services if the people were willing to pay for it! They say they want healthcare, environmental laws, a strong military, infrastructure...and then they bitch when they have to pay more to finance it! If you want the government to provide these things, you'd better be willing to pay for it.

It's ridiculous that the government can get away with running deficits of this scale during an economic expansion, especially since that totally destroys the purpose of deficit spending in the first place! Not to mention that the deficits cause inflation that eats away at the real tax income to begin with reducing real tax revenues even further...
If there is a silver lining to be had, it's that we can tolerate much, much larger deficits than we would commonly think feasible.

Is that no, in fact, what we are doing with this undisclosed $3 billion deficit?

...

Funny, I thought that they did admit we were several trillion in debt... We had a whole discussion about it in science class and everything...
And someday maybe they'll cover the difference between deficits and debt.

:headbang:

And someday maybe they'll cover the difference between defecits and debt.

:headbang:

Ah...

That explains it. *feels stupid*:(

Yeah there is a ticker somewhere...
But hey, who are we to rain on the defamation parade with things like facts and logic.


Mmm, delusion. Sweet, sweet delusion.
Have you never been inclined to post something either relevant or intelligent? Or are you just the infinite number of monkeys trying to produce Shakespeare?

Have you never been inclined to post something either relevant or intelligent? Or are you just the infinite number of monkeys trying to produce Shakespeare?

The latter. He should meet Allers.

Have you never been inclined to post something either relevant or intelligent? Or are you just the infinite number of monkeys trying to produce Shakespeare?

That might be the best ever flame I've seen. :D

That might be the best ever flame I've seen. :D
Oh geez, now I've got to check the moderation group...

Have you never been inclined to post something either relevant or intelligent? Or are you just the infinite number of monkeys trying to produce Shakespeare?
If you like, I could elaborate on why a change in the taxation system would in no way, shape or form return power of the government to the hands of the people.

Oh geez, now I've got to check the moderation group...

Nah, you're not me. ;)