NationStates Jolt Archive

I mean fate, as in forces that conspire with some deliberation to do things, like bring people together, make things happen to us, to manipulate circumstances and affect our lives.

People who believe in psychic powers refer to "powers of the mind", the mind's ability to affect things physically through thought, the mind's ability to manipulate matter or circumstances, or read other's thoughts. I don't mean bending spoons, but the type of powers that modern day witches profess as magicks.

It would seem they have much in common (if not everything in common) except that one places responsibility for the happenings on outside forces and the other takes credit for them.

I mean fate, as in forces that conspire with some deliberation to do things, like bring people together, make things happen to us, to manipulate circumstances and affect our lives.

People who believe in psychic powers refer to "powers of the mind", the mind's ability to affect things physically through thought, the mind's ability to manipulate matter or circumstances, or read other's thoughts. I don't mean bending spoons, but the type of powers that modern day witches profess as magicks.

It would seem they have much in common (if not everything in common) except that one places responsibility for the happenings on outside forces and the other takes credit for them.
I tend to get depressed whenever I hear people talking about psychic powers and the "powers of the mind" that you describe. These are people who very clearly have not taken the time to learn anything about the ACTUAL powers of their mind and brain. Indeed, they scorn the real and amazing abilities of their own minds as mundane and insufficient.

I'm getting something... I'm getting something....


someone here was watching South Park last night, the episode about John Edwards...

Haha! Well, I don't watch TV much anymore, so while I'm sure lots of people saw Southpark, I wasn't one of them.

John Edwards = some American dude, right?

Hmmm....I dont know. But I'm following these series, called Medium, starring Patricia Arquette. When they are making ads of it, they are saying it's from a true story. Makes you think...

Haha! Well, I don't watch TV much anymore, so while I'm sure lots of people saw Southpark, I wasn't one of them.

John Edwards = some American dude, right?
http://www.johnedward.net/about_John_Edward.htm

"The Biggest Douche In The Universe"

I don't think psychic powers (if they really exist) are just a belief in fate. The two are only linked together because people think they are both mystical. I know people who are sensitive to the elements if you will, can/have seen ghosts when others in the room can't etc I dont think that is psychic just more in tune with your surroundings.

This is the trick that John Edwards (and a lot of other "psychics") do...

http://skepdic.com/coldread.html

Are psychic powers a belief in fate?

I don't think so.

I'd say that if you have psychic powers, then you can use them to influence the world - to change things.

If it was just "fate" then psychic powers would suck. Big time. "Ohnos I knows something but can't stop it w/ ma mind beames! w0lf."

That said, I think the article on cold reading nicely summed up my view of well over 99% of the world's "psychics".

And Medium is one of the worst seri on TV. Seriously. Tru Calling was more my thing. Eliza Dushku can slay me any time.

I mean fate, as in forces that conspire with some deliberation to do things, like bring people together, make things happen to us, to manipulate circumstances and affect our lives.

People who believe in psychic powers refer to "powers of the mind", the mind's ability to affect things physically through thought, the mind's ability to manipulate matter or circumstances, or read other's thoughts. I don't mean bending spoons, but the type of powers that modern day witches profess as magicks.

It would seem they have much in common (if not everything in common) except that one places responsibility for the happenings on outside forces and the other takes credit for them.
From my personal experience I do believe that some people have supernatural abilities.

From my personal experience, I believe some people have unusal abilities termed as "supernatural" by those who do not understand those abilities.

I mean fate, as in forces that conspire with some deliberation to do things, like bring people together, make things happen to us, to manipulate circumstances and affect our lives.

People who believe in psychic powers refer to "powers of the mind", the mind's ability to affect things physically through thought, the mind's ability to manipulate matter or circumstances, or read other's thoughts. I don't mean bending spoons, but the type of powers that modern day witches profess as magicks.

It would seem they have much in common (if not everything in common) except that one places responsibility for the happenings on outside forces and the other takes credit for them.

Well, let me put it this way.

No.

Fate is things happening because they were 'meant' to happen, fufill some cosmic scheme, statistical inevitability, etc.

'Psychic powers' if you believe that sort of thing, are things happening because someone made them happen.

I mean really, if I pick up a pencil, I could make the same argument you have. That ability to pick up a pencil is belief in fate.

psychic powers are 100% fake and only work by making others belive...dont belive me???think about why no psychic is married to a famous guy or won the lottery. Sure they'll say they arent allowed to use thier powers for that but if they were truely psychic dont you think they could tell which investments will fail or at least pick the score card/scratch off numbers that give them like $500

Well, let me put it this way.

No.

Fate is things happening because they were 'meant' to happen, fufill some cosmic scheme, statistical inevitability, etc.

'Psychic powers' if you believe that sort of thing, are things happening because someone made them happen.

I mean really, if I pick up a pencil, I could make the same argument you have. That ability to pick up a pencil is belief in fate.
And if I claimed psychic powers, I could say, "I knew you were going to do that."

http://www.johnedward.net/about_John_Edward.htm

"The Biggest Douche In The Universe"
Very profitable scam though.

psychic powers are 100% fake and only work by making others belive...dont belive me???think about why no psychic is married to a famous guy or won the lottery. Sure they'll say they arent allowed to use thier powers for that but if they were truely psychic dont you think they could tell which investments will fail or at least pick the score card/scratch off numbers that give them like $500

Well, first off, there's sometimes considered to be something about personal gain with psychic powers (though if that is the case, why do they charge for your 'reading' or whatever they call it? I smell a loophole),

But leaving that aside, even if we accept your argument as proof, you've only disproved one category of 'psychic powers' namely...

I don't know the technical term for it but 'seeing the future'.

And if I claimed psychic powers, I could say, "I knew you were going to do that."

Your point being?

Your point being?
Uhm ... your picking up the pencil implying a belief in fate (you were meant to pick it up), then my psychic belief in fate would let me say that I knew you were going to pick up the pencil. I think. Okay, I withdraw the comment, I don't even understand it. But as some several someones have said, psychic powers are pretty much snake-oil and scams.

Uhm ... your picking up the pencil implying a belief in fate (you were meant to pick it up), then my psychic belief in fate would let me say that I knew you were going to pick up the pencil. I think. Okay, I withdraw the comment, I don't even understand it. But as some several someones have said, psychic powers are pretty much snake-oil and scams.

The army seems to have though otherwise...

Well, I haven't read the book yet so I'm not going to discuss it here, but check out a book called 'The Men who Stare at Goats.'

Well, here's the thing...

Psychic powers? I dunno if I believe in them the way you describe them, but on the other hand, I sometimes know things that I have no way of knowing. Whether that means that I am psychic or just perceptive, I am not sure. Occasionally I have a dream that comes true a few days later. If that is just a good guess, that is fine, but sometimes the dreams are about random events that cross my path which are completely unpredictable (ie a car accident I witnessed and had dreamed about involving complete strangers). There are other examples, none of which would stand up to scientific scrutiny I am sure, as they are not consistant, but who knows? Perhaps there is more in this world than we yet understand?

And while I do not BELIEVE in the Tarot, I can give a really good reading to someone I have never before met... so much so that I often refuse to DO readings because they scare me (and no, I don't ever do it for money, just for entertainment).

As for John Edwards, he is actually mediocre at the cold read, but his TV show had some very good editing to eliminate all the misses. There have been others who are much better at it. And anyone can learn the basic tricks. "I am seeing an older person... a mother figure..." can mean anyone at all, if you fill in the blanks for yourself.

The army seems to have though otherwise...

Well, I haven't read the book yet so I'm not going to discuss it here, but check out a book called 'The Men who Stare at Goats.'
You mean far-seeing? Spying psychically on far away places? I believe that's been pretty well discredited, even by the Army.

You mean far-seeing? Spying psychically on far away places? I believe that's been pretty well discredited, even by the Army.

Remote Viewing is how I've always heard it described, but not exclusively. Well, according to my sister, who's read the book, there were things such as trying to make goat's hearts explode by staring at them, and trying to walk through walls. Might have been the CIA, not the Army.

I really need to read the book, but my History teacher has it and I'm probably not gonna see him before school starts again.

I don't think psychic powers (if they really exist) are just a belief in fate. The two are only linked together because people think they are both mystical. I know people who are sensitive to the elements if you will, can/have seen ghosts when others in the room can't etc I dont think that is psychic just more in tune with your surroundings.
But the connection I was making was practical, not mystical. They both seem to be describing the same effects; the only apparent difference was in where responsibility for the effects is assigned.

Seeing ghosts doesn't really cause a magical effect.

This is the trick that John Edwards (and a lot of other "psychics") do...
Thanks for the links. Scary stuff.

Are psychic powers a belief in fate?

I don't think so.

I'd say that if you have psychic powers, then you can use them to influence the world - to change things.

If it was just "fate" then psychic powers would suck. Big time. "Ohnos I knows something but can't stop it w/ ma mind beames! w0lf."
Haha! :)

No, I wasn't meaning that psychic powers be fated (that would be funny). I just meant to draw a comparison between the two.

From my personal experience I do believe that some people have supernatural abilities.
I, too, don't discount special abilities in people.

Remote Viewing is how I've always heard it described, but not exclusively. Well, according to my sister, who's read the book, there were things such as trying to make goat's hearts explode by staring at them, and trying to walk through walls. Might have been the CIA, not the Army.

I really need to read the book, but my History teacher has it and I'm probably not gonna see him before school starts again.
Remote Viewing, yes (it's Friday, it's morning, etc). I don't know about exploding goats' hearts (PETA better not hear about that!) but if you go to Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (http://www.csicop.org)'s web page and search on "remote viewing," you'll find more than a few articles debunking it. And I recommend CSICOP very highly, too.

Remote Viewing, yes (it's Friday, it's morning, etc). I don't know about exploding goats' hearts (PETA better not hear about that!) but if you go to Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (http://www.csicop.org)'s web page and search on "remote viewing," you'll find more than a few articles debunking it. And I recommend CSICOP very highly, too.

Oh, I'm not even going to get into the debate about whether or not psychic powers are real. I just though I'd point out that book.

Well, let me put it this way.

No.

Fate is things happening because they were 'meant' to happen, fufill some cosmic scheme, statistical inevitability, etc.

'Psychic powers' if you believe that sort of thing, are things happening because someone made them happen.

I mean really, if I pick up a pencil, I could make the same argument you have. That ability to pick up a pencil is belief in fate.
Ah! But here's the thing... if they didn't really "make things happen" but it just appears that way, then when things *do* happen (such as a lightening bolt coming out of the sky and hitting someone who'd been 'cursed'), one person would blame fate and another their own "psychic powers".

I don't believe that picking up a pencil is a belief in fate --fate is something that happens *to* us.

Ah! But here's the thing... if they didn't really "make things happen" but it just appears that way, then when things *do* happen (such as a lightening bolt coming out of the sky and hitting someone 'cursed'), one person would blame fate and another their own "psychic powers".

I don't believe that picking up a pencil is a belief in fate --fate is something that happens *to* us.

Well sure, but someone could get hit by a car. One person could blame fate, the other could blame the guy standing in the middle of the road.

I, too, don't discount special abilities in people.

Yes... I just wish I had them... all.

My 3 powers of choice: Omnikinesis, Invisibility, and the ability to phase through stuff...

The first one, theoretically possible. The second one: technology can replicate (James Bond had a car that was visilbe in the light spectrum (camera-projecting screens). The third... not true as it is, although the first could allow you to move molecules AROUND you...)

I don't know the technical term for it but 'seeing the future'.
Precognizance.

Precognizance.

That's the one!

Well sure, but someone could get hit by a car. One person could blame fate, the other could blame the guy standing in the middle of the road.
I'm trying to discuss the comparison, though, between apparently "psychic" happenings and fated ones.

Yes... I just wish I had them... all.

My 3 powers of choice: Omnikinesis, Invisibility, and the ability to phase through stuff...

The first one, theoretically possible. The second one: technology can replicate (James Bond had a car that was visilbe in the light spectrum (camera-projecting screens). The third... not true as it is, although the first could allow you to move molecules AROUND you...)
My favourite X-men from the movie was the girl who walks through walls. ;)

My favourite X-men from the movie was the girl who walks through walls. ;)

Katherine (Kitty, Kate) Pryde. Codenames: Shadowcat, Sprite, Ariel.

Fear my geekiness!

I think being psychic is like predicting the weather. You see what kind of personality the person has. You see where he or she is in her life. And based on her personality you predict how she will act and what results that will bring.
Like if there are rainclouds and the wind is blowing them in the direction of your town, you predict that it will rain.