NationStates Jolt Archive

After all-- Its the President you're mad at, not the country.

After all-- Its the President you're mad at, not the country.
Frankly, no. We're all to blame. We elected our president (twice), and we elected our congress. Their politicals sins are our fault.

Very true. Unfortunately some Americans and non-Americans can't seem to differentiate.

After all-- Its the President you're mad at, not the country.
Very true.

If it were a dictatorship.

Frankly, no. We're all to blame. We elected our president (twice), and we elected our congress. Their politicals sins are our fault.
Mea culpa, mea maxima ... wait a minute, I voted against him twice! But take a look over on the "Worst Dead Presidents" thread and you'll see that we've sunk low before and come back.

No, no. I’m very upset with a lot of people, mainly stupid people that vote, but that’s an international hatred.

The thing is, we should all really half-like you. And I guess, deep down, we do. America has its plus points as much as it does its minus points.

Can't say your recent experience on the global stage has been one of those points, though.

Frankly, no. We're all to blame. We elected our president (twice), and we elected our congress. Their politicals sins are our fault.
Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos.

Well, I suppose most, if not all, of you have a point, but still. Its not like we had a very big choice here. Both Presidential candidates were'nt very good choices. And the first time Bush was elected, he seemed like an ok guy.

Well, I suppose most, if not all, of you have a point, but still. Its not like we had a very big choice here. Both Presidential candidates were'nt very good choices.
Here's a question.

Who's fault is that?

Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos.
Yeah, I voted for Cthulhu.
Why settle for a lesser evil?


(Well, actually, I can't vote 'til next presidential election.)

Here's a question.

Who's fault is that?

Certainly not mine. I can't vote yet. Have you haters ever thought about the younger people in this country who are being hurt by your unthoughtful comments? Sometimes a person can say "Its not my fault!" and be telling the truth, you know.

Yeah, I voted for Cthulhu.
Why settle for a lesser evil?
Cthulhu isn't evil. He just doesn't give a shit about humans.:)

Certainly not mine. I can't vote yet. Have you haters ever thought about the younger people in this country who are being hurt by your unthoughtful comments? Sometimes a person can say "Its not my fault!" and be telling the truth, you know.
Well, did you protest and demonstrate against the presidents during the election and afterwards? Be honest, now...

Cthulhu isn't evil. He just doesn't give a shit about humans.:)
I know, he's an ammoral being. Who's really powerful and drives people crazy.
But that's his campaign slogan.

I know, he's an ammoral being. Who's really powerful and drives people crazy.
But that's his campaign slogan.
Aye.

Certainly not mine. I can't vote yet. Have you haters ever thought about the younger people in this country who are being hurt by your unthoughtful comments? Sometimes a person can say "Its not my fault!" and be telling the truth, you know.
Perhaps you missed what was a very genuine question amid your immediate dismissal of me as a "hater".

If it is generally believed that the presidential candidates are poor choices, why are they presidential candidates? Surely the mandate of the people is strong enough for you to nominate more appropriate people for the job?

You started this thread with the intention of removing the American populace from blame. But who, if not the American people, put its leaders in office? Who even decides to put them in a position to run for office? Is there some behind the scenes plot to pick your Government outside of your control?

Perhaps you missed what was a very genuine question amid your immediate dismissal of me as a "hater".

If it is generally believed that the presidential candidates are poor choices, why are they presidential candidates? Surely the mandate of the people is strong enough for you to nominate more appropriate people for the job?

You started this thread with the intention of removing the American populace from blame. But who, if not the American people, put its leaders in office? Who even decides to put them in a position to run for office? Is there some behind the scenes plot to pick your Government outside of your control?
He's gone, man. And it's unlikely that he's going to show up again.

Perhaps you missed what was a very genuine question amid your immediate dismissal of me as a "hater".

If it is generally believed that the presidential candidates are poor choices, why are they presidential candidates? Surely the mandate of the people is strong enough for you to nominate more appropriate people for the job?

You started this thread with the intention of removing the American populace from blame. But who, if not the American people, put its leaders in office? Who even decides to put them in a position to run for office? Is there some behind the scenes plot to pick your Government outside of your control?
Richard Mellon Scaife, George Soros, and a bunch of multinational corporations with big budgets which are used to make campaign contributions.

Richard Mellon Scaife, George Soros, and a bunch of multinational corporations with big budgets which are used to make campaign contributions.
So why, it must be asked, has nobody ever deliberately set out to publicly declare a deliberately low-budget electoral campaign? The notion itself, if delivered with enough charisma and in the right way, would be headline material and probably immensely popular with the American public.

So why, it must be asked, has nobody ever deliberately set out to publicly declare a deliberately low-budget electoral campaign? The notion itself, if delivered with enough charisma and in the right way, would be headline material and probably immensely popular with the American public.
Dr. Howard Dean tried. Various media outlets made fun of him for letting out a yell when he was fired up and basically portrayed him as crazy and his supporters as maniacs. Since what CNN thinks of you is ever so important, he lost a lot of support.

Kamsaki your not being fair i didnt vote for bush because i cant and i hated him from the beginning i mean hes insane. there are people like that across the country you cant generalize all of us americans are to different from each other

(Well, actually, I can't vote 'til next presidential election.)

I am in the same boat. I'm voting for Christopher Walken when it comes around, especially if Hillary Clinton runs, no one wants that.

I am in the same boat. I'm voting for Christopher Walken when it comes around, especially if Hillary Clinton runs, no one wants that.
...Someone should ask him to run... He would be the best chief ever...

Kamsaki your not being fair i didnt vote for bush because i cant and i hated him from the beginning i mean hes insane. there are people like that across the country you cant generalize all of us americans are to different from each other
I don't hate Bush, America or its citizens. I just want to know why your system puts him there if you all don't put him there yourselves, and why you don't change the system if you don't want people like him to be there rather than just blaming its participants.

Let's face it. Every nation has its variety. You won't get everyone to agree. But why, in a world where extremism causes so much destruction and fear, does everything have to be a bipolar question? Bush or the Other Guy; Republicans or Democrats; Conservative or Liberal; Capitalist or Communist...

You, as a people, have so many more options available to you than just two.

...Someone should ask him to run... He would be the best chief ever...

Unfortunately, I don't think either major party will ask him to run. He said he'll run anyway, but it would be a great increase in chance of winning if one of the parties had him running.

Dr. Howard Dean tried. Various media outlets made fun of him for letting out a yell when he was fired up and basically portrayed him as crazy and his supporters as maniacs. Since what CNN thinks of you is ever so important, he lost a lot of support.
I can't help but notice the dry cynicism in the tone of that last line. I also feel (being British, where this sort of thing has at least one very successful proponent) that the media can be easily played at very little expense to provide a lot of your campaigning for you if handled in the right way.

Mea culpa, mea maxima ... wait a minute, I voted against him twice! But take a look over on the "Worst Dead Presidents" thread and you'll see that we've sunk low before and come back.

True, we have come back after periods of low economy, wars, etc... during previous presidents' terms, but they can't compare to how bad things are under Bush right now. He's turned one of our country's largest surpluses in history into one of our largest deficits in history after less than four months of being in office. And with the whole war in Iraq going on, it will take years to fix the damage this man has done.

I think that's enough ranting for one post.

After all-- Its the President you're mad at, not the country.

No, I'm pretty much mad and disappointed in the country too. Rightwing religous zealots and warmongers wouldn't keep getting elected unless the country was already populated with them.

Frankly, no. We're all to blame. We elected our president (twice), and we elected our congress. Their politicals sins are our fault.
Who's this "we"? Got a mouse in your pocket?

Send me your GPS coordinates I have a delivery for you :p

Perhaps you missed what was a very genuine question amid your immediate dismissal of me as a "hater".

If it is generally believed that the presidential candidates are poor choices, why are they presidential candidates? Surely the mandate of the people is strong enough for you to nominate more appropriate people for the job?

You started this thread with the intention of removing the American populace from blame. But who, if not the American people, put its leaders in office? Who even decides to put them in a position to run for office? Is there some behind the scenes plot to pick your Government outside of your control?

Pretty much. The party leadership of the Republican and Democratic parties pick the candidates. America is basically a oligarchial republic. It's the party leadership of the Democratic and Republican parties who run everything. And if they work together, then it's pretty hopeless.

This is why I've often advocated the overthrow of both parties, and their concurrent outlawing, since they stand for nothing anyways.

We're not all to blame. I know I'm not. I was too young to vote in 2000 (which is my own fault, since I was two weeks overdue at birth, but that's a tale for another day) but I would have voted for Gore and I think he probably won the election anyway. Whether he would have done as good a job in Afghanistan in 2001, I have no idea. I doubt we would be in Iraq.

I voted for John Kerry. Don't blame me for him being unelectable; I voted for Dennis Kucinich (please don't laugh) in the primaries. The man's about as left-wing as I am. I saw him speak on CNN and knew instantly I backed him for President, no matter how left-wing or vegan he was. We're not all to blame. Some of us are to blame, but not all of us.

look i have a big problem with the right wing lunatics myself but im not one of them they outnumber me and i encourage foreignors to hate them but dont hate the president because of right wing lunatics. dont generalize us were all too different

See, I could take the "don't blame us, blame the government" line first time round. Fair enough, there was enough the fact that in his first election he was outvoted.

Frankly, anybody who takes the Presidency without the popular vote cannot claim to be a representative of the people.

But this time?

Nah.

After all-- Its the President you're mad at, not the country.


No... we pretty much all suck. Sorry.

Frankly, no. We're all to blame. We elected our president (twice), and we elected our congress. Their politicals sins are our fault.
"The best arguement against Democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
Wasnt it Churchill who said that? :P

Frankly, it would be best if we either had life terms for every office, or only let people have one term in any office of the federal government at all. Half the stupid things politicians do are keyed on getting re-elected.
Bush being an exception of course, he seems to have some agenda of his own.

Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos.
SILENCE!

SILENCE!

What is the sound of silence?

What is the sound of silence?
Don't zen me out, I'll cry!

Don't zen me out, I'll cry!
n00b...

n00b...
:(

Send me your GPS coordinates I have a delivery for you :p

ok.

127.0.0.1

Don't zen me out, I'll cry!

Actually, it was Simon and Garfunkle, but Zen works too. :D

Actually, it was Simon and Garfunkle, but Zen works too. :D

I R NOT LEET U NO MKAE FUN

I R NOT LEET U NO MKAE FUN

101, |\|008[4|<3

What is the sound of silence?
.

The thing is, we should all really half-like you. And I guess, deep down, we do. America has its plus points as much as it does its minus points.

Can't say your recent experience on the global stage has been one of those points, though. Ditto.

And the first time Bush was elected, he seemed like an ok guy. o.O Funny, never looked that way from here.

o.O Funny, never looked that way from here.

That's unfortunate. He seemed okay, and then he was awesome right after 9/11. Then he went on a torrental suck-pour with a 50% of hail and strong winds coming out of the Mid-East.

Edit: 4700! :D

That's unfortunate. He seemed okay, and then he was awesome right after 9/11. Then he went on a torrental suck-pour with a 50% of hail and strong winds coming out of the Mid-East.

Edit: 4700! :D

Really, I think he was suck-pour the entire time, its just the environment around him sort of changed the way he was looked upon. No matter how green a plant is, if you flood the room with red lighting you wont be seeing much green in it.

Leading Post-9/11 America was like steering a frieght train, it was on its own track and would have went that way regardless of his interaction with it. Now Iraq is where he had us switch tracks from 'Finding teherrishts' to 'finding evihl dohers, dohing evihl thihngs.'

;)

Really, I think he was suck-pour the entire time, its just the environment around him sort of changed the way he was looked upon. No matter how green a plant is, if you flood the room with red lighting you wont be seeing much green in it.

Unless you're colourblind for red. :D

Leading Post-9/11 America was like steering a frieght train, it was on its own track and would have went that way regardless of his interaction with it. Now Iraq is where he had us switch tracks from 'Finding teherrishts' to 'finding evihl dohers, dohing evihl thihngs.'

To a point, I'd agree with you. Had someone else been in office, however, I don't think much more would have been done other than "oh shit, we got hit," and a memorial.

Very true.

If it were a dictatorship.

Should I be mad at you for the Falklands?
(hypothetically assuming you were old enough to vote for Thatcher)

Should the sins of a politician, and his supporters be laid on your head as well for voting for him a couple of years before the sin?

What if you didnt (or wouldnt have) voted for Maggie?
What if you were as active against her as you could be, and opposed her views as much as you could?
Would her mistakes be yours as well?

Remember that over half of all the registered voters did not support Bush, from as early as 1999, let alone all the unregistered citizens who held him in low regard.

While we are on the subject, should I also blame you for Britian's actions in Iraq?
Tony Blair sent troops as well.
Blaming me or those like me for Bush's actions, is about as accurate as if I were to blame you for Mr. Blair's.

Perhaps we should accuse the people of Mexico for the deaths of thousands of soldiers and civillians, becuase Vincente Fox, sent a few troops as well?

Sadly we have a two party controlled political climate, and currently, one side retains all power.
Blame the policy makers, who do not fully inform thier constituents of the reasons why they do what they do.
As Americans, we can only judge a candidate by what he has done, and what he says he will do for us, if we elect him.
Once elected, nothing can make him keep his promise, except his own sense of decency.

Currently, in Washington, there is a distinct lack of decent men.

Should I be mad at you for the Falklands?
(hypothetically assuming you were old enough to vote for Thatcher)

Should the sins of a politician, and his supporters be laid on your head as well for voting for him a couple of years before the sin?

What if you didnt (or wouldnt have) voted for Maggie?
What if you were as active against her as you could be, and opposed her views as much as you could?
Would her mistakes be yours as well?

Remember that over half of all the registered voters did not support Bush, from as early as 1999, let alone all the unregistered citizens who held him in low regard.

While we are on the subject, should I also blame you for Britian's actions in Iraq?
Tony Blair sent troops as well.
Blaming me or those like me for Bush's actions, is about as accurate as if I were to blame you for Mr. Blair's.

Perhaps we should accuse the people of Mexico for the deaths of thousands of soldiers and civillians, becuase Vincente Fox, sent a few troops as well?

Sadly we have a two party controlled political climate, and currently, one side retains all power.
Blame the policy makers, who do not fully inform thier constituents of the reasons why they do what they do.
As Americans, we can only judge a candidate by what he has done, and what he says he will do for us, if we elect him.
Once elected, nothing can make him keep his promise, except his own sense of decency.

Currently, in Washington, there is a distinct lack of decent men.

Wow. This pretty much sums up my opinion. Nice one, Squatch. :)

Wow. This pretty much sums up my opinion. Nice one, Squatch. :)


Danke.

I wish TG were on to respond.

Danke.

I wish TG were on to respond.

He may be here, just ghosting. There are Mods who do that sometimes.

He may be here, just ghosting. There are Mods who do that sometimes.


Oooo..the clever bastards!

Only thing I hate about some Americans is their pride.

While we are on the subject, should I also blame you for Britian's actions in Iraq?
Tony Blair sent troops as well.

That doesn't exactly work because it was Bush who wanted the war in Iraq and Blair was bullied into it.

Komyunizumu']That doesn't exactly work because it was Bush who wanted the war in Iraq and Blair was bullied into it.


Irrelavant.

He sent troops.
For whatever reasons he did so, the British peoples elected Leader sent troops to Iraq.
They occasionally shot and killed enemy troops.
Cased closed.

ok.

127.0.0.1
there's no place like 127.0.0.1 :)

Irrelavant.

He sent troops.
For whatever reasons he did so, the British peoples elected Leader sent troops to Iraq.
They occasionally shot and killed enemy troops.
Cased closed.
there has to be an element of realism in this. what blair did was he acted as a bridge between the EU and the US which, in international politics terms, was quite an important thing to do for - at the very least - the stability of western economies, yet alone political stability.

i don't condone his going to war, but its not quite as 'black-and-white' as all that

Irrelavant.

He sent troops.
For whatever reasons he did so, the British peoples elected Leader sent troops to Iraq.
They occasionally shot and killed enemy troops.
Cased closed.

So your saying he wanted the war? Wrong. Tony Blair was faced with one of the most worse crisis a PM could encounter. Choose between war with Iraq, or a cold war with America. Now, I know most of we rational people wouldn't want war with a country which we had built and had done nothing to us recently. But if we said "no", America would do all sorts of things. Cut off our imports. Propose to the UN we were working in conjunction with terrorists. It could even lead to conflict between America and Britain!

Komyunizumu']So your saying he wanted the war? Wrong. Tony Blair was faced with one of the most worse crisis a PM could encounter. Choose between war with Iraq, or a cold war with America. Now, I know most of we rational people wouldn't want war with a country which we had built and had done nothing to us recently. But if we said "no", America would do all sorts of things. Cut off our imports. Propose to the UN we were working in conjunction with terrorists. It could even lead to conflict between America and Britain!


Much as I despise Blair, I think he did the best he could.

Komyunizumu']So your saying he wanted the war? Wrong. Tony Blair was faced with one of the most worse crisis a PM could encounter. Choose between war with Iraq, or a cold war with America. Now, I know most of we rational people wouldn't want war with a country which we had built and had done nothing to us recently. But if we said "no", America would do all sorts of things. Cut off our imports. Propose to the UN we were working in conjunction with terrorists. It could even lead to conflict between America and Britain!

Oh please!

Do you really think that America and the UK would ever enter armed conflict with each other?
The UK is just about the staunchest ally that America has, and it would take far, far more than refusing to help America knock over a thirld world nation.
France and Germany refused to help, you dont see any plans to invade them do you?

Tony Blair could have rerfused to participate, and have done with it.
He did not.
He decided Britians interests in Iraq, were Americas interest...the oil.
Britian is dependant on the same oil that America is.
In the end, it was all about money and gasoline.

Since when does the British Empire fold to the demands of anyone, even its bastard offspring son?
America cant really force the UK to do anything its people are dead-set against, and Tony B, was along side his partner, Bush.

there has to be an element of realism in this. what blair did was he acted as a bridge between the EU and the US which, in international politics terms, was quite an important thing to do for - at the very least - the stability of western economies, yet alone political stability.

i don't condone his going to war, but its not quite as 'black-and-white' as all that


As I said, regardless of the reasons he did so, he sent troops to Iraq.
For me to blame someone I have never met, and dont know beyond a post here and there, like Tactical Grace for Blair's decisions, would be equally as innacurate for him to blame millions of Americans for Bush's actions, would it not?

As I said, regardless of the reasons he did so, he sent troops to Iraq.
For me to blame someone I have never met, and dont know beyond a post here and there, like Tactical Grace for Blair's decisions, would be equally as innacurate for him to blame millions of Americans for Bush's actions, would it not?
that's not what i'm arguing

that's not what i'm arguing


Well, then your quite right about it not being quite as black and white as I laid them out, but remember, I was using Blair as a reference, simply because TG posted something I disagreed with, and he happens to libe in the UK.

If he had lived in Poland, I would have used Jaroslaw Kaczynski instead.