NationStates Jolt Archive

Im thinking as Im sitting here in a dark, hot, underground internet cafe miles away from my home I realise that where someone comes from makes up who they are more than anything else. The why I see the world, my language, the food I like, my customs, dress, way of life, everything is decided by the invisible lines that makes up nations. Im realising I am far more of a nationalist than I ever thought before and the things I had before I took for granted. I think Im shifting to the right as far as politics aswell. Its like this trip has the exact opposite effect I was planning it to have on me. Liberals, talk some sense into me before i slip to the dark side.

Yeah, I spose. The people that live around you influence you too, especially people who were born and raised from another country and moved to your country.

Im thinking as Im sitting here in a dark, hot, underground internet cafe miles away from my home I realise that where someone comes from makes up who they are more than anything else. The why I see the world, my language, the food I like, my customs, dress, way of life, everything is decided by the invisible lines that makes up nations. Im realising I am far more of a nationalist than I ever thought before and the things I had before I took for granted. I think Im shifting to the right as far as politics aswell. Its like this trip has the exact opposite effect I was planning it to have on me. Liberals, talk some sense into me before i slip to the dark side.

It's not so much your nation, it's more your culture that determines a lot about your everyday life, views of the world and general preferences.
Nations were invented far to late to have gained this kind of influence over the individual :D

Example? I'm from Southern Germany. My everyday habits, my views, the food I like and my language make me a complete stranger in a place like Hamburg, but perfectly at home in Vienna.
It's cultural, not national.

Liberals, talk some sense into me before i slip to the dark side.

But Liberalism is the dark side. :eek:

But Liberalism is the dark side. :eek:

Depends on how you use the term. Nothing wrong with classical liberalism.

Liberals, talk some sense into me before i slip to the dark side.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

SIDE NOTE: Yeah, I'm a conservative, and travelling abroad makes me feel all socialist inside. Go figure.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

SIDE NOTE: Yeah, I'm a conservative, and travelling abroad makes me feel all socialist inside. Go figure.
funny how that works. I guess we go to different places in the world then.

Im thinking as Im sitting here in a dark, hot, underground internet cafe miles away from my home I realise that where someone comes from makes up who they are more than anything else. The why I see the world, my language, the food I like, my customs, dress, way of life, everything is decided by the invisible lines that makes up nations. Im realising I am far more of a nationalist than I ever thought before and the things I had before I took for granted. I think Im shifting to the right as far as politics aswell. Its like this trip has the exact opposite effect I was planning it to have on me. Liberals, talk some sense into me before i slip to the dark side.
How long you been in China?
I would hazard not very long at all.
You're just going through one of the phases of assimilation into a foreign culture.
It's exciting at first, then overwhelming and depressing. The foreigness of it all makes you cling to familiar things all the more and you find yourself missing even the most banal ordinary everyday objects/places etc.Just to give yourself a base from which to cope with everything around you.
I found I went to McDs more in my first 6 months in HK than I had in probably the previous 10 years back in NZ.
It was just a way of feeling 'normal'.
If you're staying for a long time, it'll pass once you get used to the surroundings and culture. Or if you're only there a short time, you'll soon revert back to who you were once you're back home safe and sound.

funny how that works. I guess we go to different places in the world then.


He went to the UK.
You went to China.

Go figure. :p

How long you been in China?
I would hazard not very long at all.
thats true I have been here about 2 weeks
You're just going through one of the phases of assimilation into a foreign culture.
It's exciting at first, then overwhelming and depressing.
Actually thats exactly right, I didnt know there was a "phase" for it

The foreigness of it all makes you cling to familiar things all the more and you find yourself missing even the most banal ordinary everyday objects/places etc.Just to give yourself a base from which to cope with everything around you.
again, right. I miss so many little that most people wouldnt noticed when they are home.

If you're staying for a long time, it'll pass once you get used to the surroundings and culture. Or if you're only there a short time, you'll soon revert back to who you were once you're back home safe and sound.
Well thats good to know. And I must say, awesome post. You basically pinned this whole situation to a T. Im the only westerner where I am so it was good hear others have felt the same way.

Im thinking as Im sitting here in a dark, hot, underground internet cafe miles away from my home I realise that where someone comes from makes up who they are more than anything else. The why I see the world, my language, the food I like, my customs, dress, way of life, everything is decided by the invisible lines that makes up nations. Im realising I am far more of a nationalist than I ever thought before and the things I had before I took for granted. I think Im shifting to the right as far as politics aswell. Its like this trip has the exact opposite effect I was planning it to have on me. Liberals, talk some sense into me before i slip to the dark side.

Well duh.

We humans are, like it or not, creatures of habit. We like to know what to expect and how things work - socially, not mechanically - wherever we are. Now how social interactions work depends a lot on the value set that we and those around us have. This value set is something we acquire as we grow up, and is highly culturally dependent. Thus, when we find ourselves in a foreign place, what makes it foreign is the differences in the values, between the internal expectation of social reactions and those that are presented to us. This difference leaves us ungrounded, adrift, not knowing what to do, how to react and what to expect. That is uncomfortable for anyone, it may frighten or excite you, but it is uncomfortable either way. As we generally prefer to be comfortable, we find ourselves desiring that things are arranged the way they were back home.

The true test of character is to overcome this discomfort and start to adapt to the 'new' order of things. To shift, or better still - broaden, your value set to clash less with the values of the culture in which you are now embedded. It takes time and a lot of tolerance, but if you manage it you end up being less conservative. The more different the culture, the harder this process is.

(USA to UK is hardly any culture shift at all, USA to China is extreme.)

Well thats good to know. And I must say, awesome post. You basically pinned this whole situation to a T. Im the only westerner where I am so it was good hear others have felt the same way.
That makes it doubly hard, being the only Westerner there. You have no-one to share your common experiences with. I have found most Chinese ppl to be very friendly and helpful, which is a big bonus.

Hope my post helps. When I found out that there's several phases one goes through it helped me immensely.

So just relax and enjoy your holiday.

What part of China are you in btw?

(USA to UK is hardly any culture shift at all, USA to China is extreme.)

I guess that's why I felt like a bizarre combination of Oscar Wilde and George Bernard Shaw within a few minutes of leaving Heathrow for the city.

Well duh.

We humans are, like it or not, creatures of habit. We like to know what to expect and how things work - socially, not mechanically - wherever we are. Now how social interactions work depends a lot on the value set that we and those around us have. This value set is something we acquire as we grow up, and is highly culturally dependent. Thus, when we find ourselves in a foreign place, what makes it foreign is the differences in the values, between the internal expectation of social reactions and those that are presented to us. This difference leaves us ungrounded, adrift, not knowing what to do, how to react and what to expect. That is uncomfortable for anyone, it may frighten or excite you, but it is uncomfortable either way. As we generally prefer to be comfortable, we find ourselves desiring that things are arranged the way they were back home.

The true test of character is to overcome this discomfort and start to adapt to the 'new' order of things. To shift, or better still - broaden, your value set to clash less with the values of the culture in which you are now embedded. It takes time and a lot of tolerance, but if you manage it you end up being less conservative. The more different the culture, the harder this process is.

(USA to UK is hardly any culture shift at all, USA to China is extreme.)
And things are really starting to make sense know. yours and DH's post have really helped me. I can always count on NS general to save the day.

What part of China are you in btw?
Seeing as this a political forum I feel somewhat uneasy saying exactly where, but Its in the south. Lots of spicy food here.

Seeing as this a political forum I feel somewhat uneasy saying exactly where, but Its in the south. Lots of spicy food here.


Shu or Wu?

I'd say Sichuan.
Nice food indeed.

Oh, come on now!
I posted on NS when I was in Tibet - and that's way more politically dangerous than Sichuan or Guangzhou or where-ever you may be.

Im thinking as Im sitting here in a dark, hot, underground internet cafe miles away from my home I realise that where someone comes from makes up who they are more than anything else. The why I see the world, my language, the food I like, my customs, dress, way of life, everything is decided by the invisible lines that makes up nations. Im realising I am far more of a nationalist than I ever thought before and the things I had before I took for granted. I think Im shifting to the right as far as politics aswell. Its like this trip has the exact opposite effect I was planning it to have on me. Liberals, talk some sense into me before i slip to the dark side. For many Westerners, it takes getting outside your country and culture to really start to appreciate and understand your culture. That's a pretty normal effect of travel. It doesn't necessarily mean you are 'nationalistic' unless you happen to live in a nation with a completely homogenous culture...it's just that things you take for granted as 'this is how it is' are challenged when suddenly you are somewhere where things are different. And it's all in the little details...the big stuff you know about and are prepared for.

Oh, come on now!
I posted on NS when I was in Tibet - and that's way more politically dangerous than Sichuan or Guangzhou or where-ever you may be.
Whoa, holy shit. You posted in Tibet!? you got balls:D Alright lets just say Guangzhou is very, very close to where I am. Im actually really surprised that they have high speed internet here but I'll be damned if I can find some western food.

Whoa, holy shit. You posted in Tibet!? you got balls:D Alright lets just say Guangzhou is very, very close to where I am. Im actually really surprised that they have high speed internet here but I'll be damned if I can find some western food.


*grin* should I check my travelguide for Guilin?

(USA to UK is hardly any culture shift at all, USA to China is extreme.)
I would agree that a move to China from the US or Canada would be MORE extreme than one to the UK, I wouldn't agree that it's 'hardly any culture shift at all'. Hell, a move from Alberta to Prince Edward Island...or to Nunavut...those are big cultural changes! Sure, you still have a common language, and you might share a few customs, but that's where the similarity ends.

For many Westerners, it takes getting outside your country and culture to really start to appreciate and understand your culture. That's a pretty normal effect of travel. It doesn't necessarily mean you are 'nationalistic' unless you happen to live in a nation with a completely homogenous culture...it's just that things you take for granted as 'this is how it is' are challenged when suddenly you are somewhere where things are different. And it's all in the little details...the big stuff you know about and are prepared for.

I've been travelling all my life, over most of the countries on the planet, and I still am conservative when I get home.

In fact, I started out as a freshly scrubbed Democrat in the late 1970s, and all that world travel seems to have rubbed that right out of me.

Still, feel like old school English Labour would be attractive...

I would agree that a move to China from the US or Canada would be MORE extreme than one to the UK, I wouldn't agree that it's 'hardly any culture shift at all'. Hell, a move from Alberta to Prince Edward Island...or to Nunavut...those are big cultural changes! Sure, you still have a common language, and you might share a few customs, but that's where the similarity ends.

A common language creates a cultural link that is very strong. Literature, tradition, values all get passed back and forth where they are blended into a cultural overlay. Yes, local conditions, trades, customs will colour this overlay in different ways, but the basic cultural structures are very similar. Where there is no common language or even common history, then the structure of the cultural interactions can be (but is not always) very different.

Whoa, holy shit. You posted in Tibet!? you got balls:D Alright lets just say Guangzhou is very, very close to where I am. Im actually really surprised that they have high speed internet here but I'll be damned if I can find some western food.
I wouldn't say balls, just an inability to realise the possible consequences of my actions. Seems to me like the PRC govt have yet to notice NS and so it's safe to post what you like on it.

Guangzhou is close, mmm?

So we're talking Guangdong region, eh?

Shenzhen
Dinghushan
Zhongshan
Shaoguan

any of those?

btw, if you still need a quick phrase guide, these two sites are good:
http://www.the-backpacking-site.com/countries/china-phrase.html

http://www.newconceptmandarin.com/support/survCant_AsiaXpat.asp?tcode=YYPGYENW

*grin* should I check my travelguide for Guilin?
Now there's a great place. I've been considering heading that way this month. I met a girl from there, see, and...

I've been travelling all my life, over most of the countries on the planet, and I still am conservative when I get home.

In fact, I started out as a freshly scrubbed Democrat in the late 1970s, and all that world travel seems to have rubbed that right out of me.

Still, feel like old school English Labour would be attractive...
My politics haven't changed either. I'm still a grubby lefty

A common language creates a cultural link that is very strong. Literature, tradition, values all get passed back and forth where they are blended into a cultural overlay. Yes, local conditions, trades, customs will colour this overlay in different ways, but the basic cultural structures are very similar. Where there is no common language or even common history, then the structure of the cultural interactions can be (but is not always) very different.
You go to Nunavut, say, Cambridge Bay, and tell me you don't encounter cultural vertigo.

I'm not saying it would be more extreme than going to, say....Papau New Guinea. Just that culture shock need not happen 14 hours by plane away from your home.

Now there's a great place. I've been considering heading that way this month. I met a girl from there, see, and...

So did I, but she must be kinda middleaged by now.
First time I went there, it was just being opened up and all.

Im thinking as Im sitting here in a dark, hot, underground internet cafe miles away from my home I realise that where someone comes from makes up who they are more than anything else. The why I see the world, my language, the food I like, my customs, dress, way of life, everything is decided by the invisible lines that makes up nations. Im realising I am far more of a nationalist than I ever thought before and the things I had before I took for granted. I think Im shifting to the right as far as politics aswell. Its like this trip has the exact opposite effect I was planning it to have on me. Liberals, talk some sense into me before i slip to the dark side.

Hmm, I'd have to disagree a little, but that's probably because I lived all over the place all my life.

I wouldn't say balls, just an inability to realise the possible consequences of my actions. Seems to me like the PRC govt have yet to notice NS and so it's safe to post what you like on it.

Guangzhou is close, mmm?

So we're talking Guangdong region, eh?

Shenzhen
Dinghushan
Zhongshan
Shaoguan

any of those?

btw, if you still need a quick phrase guide, these two sites are good:
http://www.the-backpacking-site.com/countries/china-phrase.html

http://www.newconceptmandarin.com/support/survCant_AsiaXpat.asp?tcode=YYPGYENW
I'll give a hint, it starts with a "j". And thanks for the sites, I have a translation book but it is still hard to communicate.

I'll give a hint, it starts with a "j". And thanks for the sites, I have a translation book but it is still hard to communicate.
So you meant to say you're in Jiangxi region, not Guangdong?

Im thinking as Im sitting here in a dark, hot, underground internet cafe miles away from my home I realise that where someone comes from makes up who they are more than anything else. The why I see the world, my language, the food I like, my customs, dress, way of life, everything is decided by the invisible lines that makes up nations. Im realising I am far more of a nationalist than I ever thought before and the things I had before I took for granted. I think Im shifting to the right as far as politics aswell. Its like this trip has the exact opposite effect I was planning it to have on me. Liberals, talk some sense into me before i slip to the dark side.
those things are cultural, and unless you think other countries' cultures to be "wrong" then national boundaries have very little to do with culture in this sense. yes they may often be a convinient dividing line between two cultures that have some marginal difference, but politically and governmentally speaking, culture is something different and national boundaries are arbitary.


if you choose to see yourself that way then fine. personally i choose to see myself as a human being, just like that person over there in france, exactly like that person over there in egypt... just we happen to like different foods, dress a bit differently, and communicate in a slightly different way. those differences are only important, politically speaking (of course langauage differences are important in a practical sense of communication) if you make them.

Im thinking as Im sitting here in a dark, hot, underground internet cafe miles away from my home I realise that where someone comes from makes up who they are more than anything else. The why I see the world, my language, the food I like, my customs, dress, way of life, everything is decided by the invisible lines that makes up nations. Im realising I am far more of a nationalist than I ever thought before and the things I had before I took for granted. I think Im shifting to the right as far as politics aswell. Its like this trip has the exact opposite effect I was planning it to have on me. Liberals, talk some sense into me before i slip to the dark side.

How old are you? When I was around 16, I was very left. Now some people on NSG call me a Nazi. Idealism sometimes wanes when you start to see things more clearly.

It's not so much your nation, it's more your culture that determines a lot about your everyday life, views of the world and general preferences.
Nations were invented far to late to have gained this kind of influence over the individual :D

Example? I'm from Southern Germany. My everyday habits, my views, the food I like and my language make me a complete stranger in a place like Hamburg, but perfectly at home in Vienna.
It's cultural, not national.

But your hating of nationalism and patriotism or your nihilism when it comes to the future of your country comes from you being German.